My heart tells me to grow towards unschooling...support needed.
Kimberly
Hi! :)
An introduction before I bring up my related discussion topic...
We are a family of 6, living in Florida. I feel grateful to live in a homeschool-friendly state.
I have 7-year-old twin daughters that I have homeschooled using various methods (relaxed homeschool, K-12 through the state, some VPK, and a year of kindergarten for the purpose of testing the waters).
My stepson was in both daycare and public school until the completion of 3rd grade. I am thrilled to have him at home now, as he has both ADHD and SPD (recently diagnosed). We are putting a substantial effort into helping him to grow into his beautifully unique neurology.
We also have a two-year-old daughter who will be entirely unschooled.
So, now that you know the foundation of my thought, here's my question and concern:
I was educated in a brick & mortar setting. I went to a small private college and realized there that traditional education does not work for me. I am an unschooler at heart. BUT, I have this irrational fear of giving up some semblance of structure to their education. I know some of you are feeling nauseous right about now. lol! But, seriously, other than ravenous reading on the subject (which I am doing), do you have any other suggestions for ways in which I can ease my nagging little voices?
Part of my problem is that my stepson's mother, while cooperative in many ways, is not the most open-minded individual when it comes to education.
I would be very appreciative if we could collectively bounce around ideas on these topics. I'm sure there are many parents out there that would benefit from this, even though it's very likely been discussed before.
Thank you so much for your help and consideration!
Kim
An introduction before I bring up my related discussion topic...
We are a family of 6, living in Florida. I feel grateful to live in a homeschool-friendly state.
I have 7-year-old twin daughters that I have homeschooled using various methods (relaxed homeschool, K-12 through the state, some VPK, and a year of kindergarten for the purpose of testing the waters).
My stepson was in both daycare and public school until the completion of 3rd grade. I am thrilled to have him at home now, as he has both ADHD and SPD (recently diagnosed). We are putting a substantial effort into helping him to grow into his beautifully unique neurology.
We also have a two-year-old daughter who will be entirely unschooled.
So, now that you know the foundation of my thought, here's my question and concern:
I was educated in a brick & mortar setting. I went to a small private college and realized there that traditional education does not work for me. I am an unschooler at heart. BUT, I have this irrational fear of giving up some semblance of structure to their education. I know some of you are feeling nauseous right about now. lol! But, seriously, other than ravenous reading on the subject (which I am doing), do you have any other suggestions for ways in which I can ease my nagging little voices?
Part of my problem is that my stepson's mother, while cooperative in many ways, is not the most open-minded individual when it comes to education.
I would be very appreciative if we could collectively bounce around ideas on these topics. I'm sure there are many parents out there that would benefit from this, even though it's very likely been discussed before.
Thank you so much for your help and consideration!
Kim
Sandra Dodd
-=-other than ravenous reading on the subject (which I am doing), do you have any other suggestions for ways in which I can ease my nagging little voices?-=-
There's no shortcut to deschooling. It does take time. You'll probably dream about it, and all kinds of memories will surface that you hadn't thought of before, and memories you have will be recategorized, as you gradually work through seeing problems you didn't see before, and see stunning examples of natural learning you wouldn't otherwise have seen. But it won't all happen this week, or this month or this year.
Too much reading can hurt. Spend time with your kids.
Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch.
At some point the stories you tell won't be from books, and won't be theory. They'll be things that happened at your house with your kids. But not right away.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There's no shortcut to deschooling. It does take time. You'll probably dream about it, and all kinds of memories will surface that you hadn't thought of before, and memories you have will be recategorized, as you gradually work through seeing problems you didn't see before, and see stunning examples of natural learning you wouldn't otherwise have seen. But it won't all happen this week, or this month or this year.
Too much reading can hurt. Spend time with your kids.
Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch.
At some point the stories you tell won't be from books, and won't be theory. They'll be things that happened at your house with your kids. But not right away.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kim Thorvaldson
There's no shortcut to deschooling.
Understood. Completely. Thank you. :)
Right now I am reading Radical Unschooling by Dayna Martin as inspiration and a much needed emotional boost. I have also been perusing various unschooling boards, seeking insight into ways to manage my path, fear, and worries. This is what I mean by reading; perhaps I sounded a bit too hyper-focused. :)
We started the year with a complete, home-constructed curriculum (I am no fan of cookie-cutter ANYTHING). I have been whittling down the assignments that the children complete down to math, language arts, literature (their choice), and an additional subject completely of their choosing. I feel like we are halfway to where we need to be.
Considering the co-parenting challenges we face, I don't want to go "cold turkey" so-to-speak, so as not to alarm my son's mother and prevent our continuing path towards unschooling. That would be tragic! My goal is to enjoy a month of de-schooling in place of spring break, and continue to progress towards free learning.
Has anyone else faced challenges similar to this? How did you deal with it?
:) Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Understood. Completely. Thank you. :)
Right now I am reading Radical Unschooling by Dayna Martin as inspiration and a much needed emotional boost. I have also been perusing various unschooling boards, seeking insight into ways to manage my path, fear, and worries. This is what I mean by reading; perhaps I sounded a bit too hyper-focused. :)
We started the year with a complete, home-constructed curriculum (I am no fan of cookie-cutter ANYTHING). I have been whittling down the assignments that the children complete down to math, language arts, literature (their choice), and an additional subject completely of their choosing. I feel like we are halfway to where we need to be.
Considering the co-parenting challenges we face, I don't want to go "cold turkey" so-to-speak, so as not to alarm my son's mother and prevent our continuing path towards unschooling. That would be tragic! My goal is to enjoy a month of de-schooling in place of spring break, and continue to progress towards free learning.
Has anyone else faced challenges similar to this? How did you deal with it?
:) Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Kimberly <ThreeHearts429@...> wrote:
balance it with being fully present with your children.
Confidence comes from better understanding. Seriously - the more you really
understand it, the more unschooling makes sense to you, and the more
confident you'll feel and that naggy voice will just disappear.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> other than ravenous reading on the subject (which I am doing), do you haveRavenous reading (and thinking about that reading) is good as long as you
> any other suggestions for ways in which I can ease my nagging little voices?
balance it with being fully present with your children.
Confidence comes from better understanding. Seriously - the more you really
understand it, the more unschooling makes sense to you, and the more
confident you'll feel and that naggy voice will just disappear.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], "Kimberly" <ThreeHearts429@...> wrote:
Here, for example, are some things I learned from nine years of sharing my days with a boy "growing without school" who spent those years mostly playing video games, watching TV and exploring the internet:
A curriculum is worse than a ball and chain if you have the opportunity to learn at the speed of thought through electronic media according to interest and need, and everybody with an internet connection has that opportunity.
Most popular "school subjects" can safely be replaced by anything at all really if it's likely to be more useful in adult life.
If you realise you must know something, you can almost certainly learn it in a fraction of the time it would take a school to teach it.
The 'world of education' has changed almost out of recognition in the past decade but most people who can only remember going to school have not kept up with the changes and carry obsolete perceptions in their heads that make it difficult for them to understand the unprecedented opportunity to take command of our own education gifted to us by the "digital revolution".
Bob
>Yes. Remember it's 2012.
>
> I was educated in a brick & mortar setting. I went to a small private college and realized there that traditional education does not work for me. I am an unschooler at heart. BUT, I have this irrational fear of giving up some semblance of structure to their education. I know some of you are feeling nauseous right about now. lol! But, seriously, other than ravenous reading on the subject (which I am doing), do you have any other suggestions for ways in which I can ease my nagging little voices?
>
>
Here, for example, are some things I learned from nine years of sharing my days with a boy "growing without school" who spent those years mostly playing video games, watching TV and exploring the internet:
A curriculum is worse than a ball and chain if you have the opportunity to learn at the speed of thought through electronic media according to interest and need, and everybody with an internet connection has that opportunity.
Most popular "school subjects" can safely be replaced by anything at all really if it's likely to be more useful in adult life.
If you realise you must know something, you can almost certainly learn it in a fraction of the time it would take a school to teach it.
The 'world of education' has changed almost out of recognition in the past decade but most people who can only remember going to school have not kept up with the changes and carry obsolete perceptions in their heads that make it difficult for them to understand the unprecedented opportunity to take command of our own education gifted to us by the "digital revolution".
Bob
Sandra Dodd
-=-If you realise you must know something, you can almost certainly learn it in a fraction of the time it would take a school to teach it.-=-
Marty, who didn't recognize mathematical notation when he was 18, though he was great with math in his head, is taking an intermediate algebra class and thinks it's really fun. What he learned in a couple of remedial math classes, each twice a week for one semester, was more solid and sensible than thirteen years of school math, AND Marty has no math aversion or disgust. :-)
Marty and Holly were talking the other day. She was enrolled in a reading class for learning to analyze writing, and being a critical thinker. He had taken that, and also English 101, and was recommending Holly do the first English class instead. He said the first part of the class was a review of grammar and mechanics, and they talked about what verbs where. He kind of rolled his eyes, thinking that would be too easy for Holly, too, but she said, "Oh, that sounds fun!"
Learning something for fun when one is older is easier, quicker and (yeah, for sure) More FUN! She knows most of that already, just from being around and being curious and open to learning.
[I'm going on a bit about school below because it can be interesting to see how always unschooled people deal with their early exposure to formal classes.]
She's going to drop the reading class because the teacher has a ton of arbitrary rules, and the directions aren't clear or sensible. I read the first assignment and 'bout flew out of my chair from the typos and really bad writing, but managed to only sort of express my disgust. I reined it in. :-) Holly was in by one point (on the placement test), and the teacher said on the first day that anyone who was close should drop out and re test. Holly said at first that it would have made more sense for the English 101 teacher to say that anyone who was only a few points from NOT testing in might want to take the easier class.
Isn't that sweet?
Holly is thinking about the ease for the students and the courtesy teachers should have. She has NO IDEA that there is a long history of teachers purposely making things harsh and difficult and antagonistic. She doesn't realize that it's all about getting college credits, and not about learning.
She retested, got a much higher score (it being the second time she had ever taken such a test, rather than the first time), and isn't going to take either of those classes, but just stick with the math for now.
Before she went in to take the test the second time, she asked me for advice. I said read things carefully, maybe twice, and if it's confusing, try reading it from the end back. And double-check the answers, because the question might have been tricky.
She came back, said that had helped, but she said "I got really bored a couple of times."
I took lots of standardized tests in school. I took regular in-class tests. I took end-of-week, end-of-unit, mid-term, semester, final tests beyond number. ACT. SAT. GRE. I know they're boring, especially the times when they would say listen to the instructions with your pencil down. Make no marks until the proctor tells you. And we would take ten minutes just to fill in our names and mark our school, because the proctors had to check everything. And tests in class were boring, when I knew all the answers and still had to go through the motions and then sit quietly until everyone else was finished.
Flash forward to 2012, when the tests are on computers and the kids don't have to wait for the proctor or get permission to sharpen a pencil. Holly noted that a couple of times it was boring.
She expects things to be fun, and that is healthy and good. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marty, who didn't recognize mathematical notation when he was 18, though he was great with math in his head, is taking an intermediate algebra class and thinks it's really fun. What he learned in a couple of remedial math classes, each twice a week for one semester, was more solid and sensible than thirteen years of school math, AND Marty has no math aversion or disgust. :-)
Marty and Holly were talking the other day. She was enrolled in a reading class for learning to analyze writing, and being a critical thinker. He had taken that, and also English 101, and was recommending Holly do the first English class instead. He said the first part of the class was a review of grammar and mechanics, and they talked about what verbs where. He kind of rolled his eyes, thinking that would be too easy for Holly, too, but she said, "Oh, that sounds fun!"
Learning something for fun when one is older is easier, quicker and (yeah, for sure) More FUN! She knows most of that already, just from being around and being curious and open to learning.
[I'm going on a bit about school below because it can be interesting to see how always unschooled people deal with their early exposure to formal classes.]
She's going to drop the reading class because the teacher has a ton of arbitrary rules, and the directions aren't clear or sensible. I read the first assignment and 'bout flew out of my chair from the typos and really bad writing, but managed to only sort of express my disgust. I reined it in. :-) Holly was in by one point (on the placement test), and the teacher said on the first day that anyone who was close should drop out and re test. Holly said at first that it would have made more sense for the English 101 teacher to say that anyone who was only a few points from NOT testing in might want to take the easier class.
Isn't that sweet?
Holly is thinking about the ease for the students and the courtesy teachers should have. She has NO IDEA that there is a long history of teachers purposely making things harsh and difficult and antagonistic. She doesn't realize that it's all about getting college credits, and not about learning.
She retested, got a much higher score (it being the second time she had ever taken such a test, rather than the first time), and isn't going to take either of those classes, but just stick with the math for now.
Before she went in to take the test the second time, she asked me for advice. I said read things carefully, maybe twice, and if it's confusing, try reading it from the end back. And double-check the answers, because the question might have been tricky.
She came back, said that had helped, but she said "I got really bored a couple of times."
I took lots of standardized tests in school. I took regular in-class tests. I took end-of-week, end-of-unit, mid-term, semester, final tests beyond number. ACT. SAT. GRE. I know they're boring, especially the times when they would say listen to the instructions with your pencil down. Make no marks until the proctor tells you. And we would take ten minutes just to fill in our names and mark our school, because the proctors had to check everything. And tests in class were boring, when I knew all the answers and still had to go through the motions and then sit quietly until everyone else was finished.
Flash forward to 2012, when the tests are on computers and the kids don't have to wait for the proctor or get permission to sharpen a pencil. Holly noted that a couple of times it was boring.
She expects things to be fun, and that is healthy and good. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kim Thorvaldson
"She expects things to be fun, and that is healthy and good. :-)"
Thank you for that gem. This is one of my greatest fear hurdles. The whole "how can we survive in the modern world if we expect everything to be fun?" thing. If anyone has more insight into this, I would be very appreciative. I need ammunition to fight my demons.
:) Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thank you for that gem. This is one of my greatest fear hurdles. The whole "how can we survive in the modern world if we expect everything to be fun?" thing. If anyone has more insight into this, I would be very appreciative. I need ammunition to fight my demons.
:) Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 13, 2012, at 10:19 AM, Kim Thorvaldson wrote:
But when kids grow up in an environment where parents are helping them find ways to get what they want from the world (safely, respectfully, reasonably), then that attitude carries into their adult life. The key is having choice. Unschoolers get to decide when something's taking more than it's returning. They can make changes in their life. They can make the choices that turn towards fun and whatever other goals they might have.
My daughter recently answered as part of a quiz on deviantART:
Goals: I wanna be a guitarist, I want to finish some books I'm proud of and write my series The Circus!! And several comic books including Keith Maximum! And go to as many concerts as I can and have a blast!!!
One wish: To have even more fun!
She's actively working to make those happen. She doesn't expect life to hand those to her.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> The whole "how can we survive in the modern world if we expectI think the problematic word is "expect." It suggests passively accepting what the world throws at someone. If they passively expect the world to be fun, they're going to be disappointed. And powerless to change it.
> everything to be fun?" thing. If anyone has more insight into this,
> I would be very appreciative. I need ammunition to fight my demons.
But when kids grow up in an environment where parents are helping them find ways to get what they want from the world (safely, respectfully, reasonably), then that attitude carries into their adult life. The key is having choice. Unschoolers get to decide when something's taking more than it's returning. They can make changes in their life. They can make the choices that turn towards fun and whatever other goals they might have.
My daughter recently answered as part of a quiz on deviantART:
Goals: I wanna be a guitarist, I want to finish some books I'm proud of and write my series The Circus!! And several comic books including Keith Maximum! And go to as many concerts as I can and have a blast!!!
One wish: To have even more fun!
She's actively working to make those happen. She doesn't expect life to hand those to her.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]