How to begin?
bellumswife77
I'm Stefanie, single Mom to 7 in Alaska ages 2-12. I started out homeschooling my kiddos, and they then went from homeschool, to classical school, to tribal school and this past summer back to homeschool. We are a traditional Native American family with a lot of emphasis on traditions and language (ours is dying). My kiddos embrace and love that though, so I will continue offering that to them along with various other projects and learning opportunities. We went from a pretty intense schedule to dropping off everything but the three R's and their desired electives in October. We are going through a major life change at the moment (divorce)and I have just allowed my children to be and do as they wish for several weeks now, but my younger kiddos ages 8,6,4,3 and 2 are like wild little monkeys. Destructive monkeys. They look to me like their are craving some structure, but I'm hoping this will pass. My girls are 11 and 12 are having the time of their lives. Their creativity is inspiring. So, my question(s) are:
1. When you began unschooling did you just say GO, or was it gradual?
2. What structure if any do you offer? With my boys as they are, I am considering a loose schedule they can participate it or not as they are interested. Time for outside play, would you like to do crafts with me now, that kind of thing. I'd like nitty gritty details, lol. I know most families don't have as many kiddos as I do, so I'd especially be interested in hearing from large families that unschool.
3. My only real concern about unschooling is my kiddos with learning disabilities. My daughter who is 11 is severely dyslexic. Teaching her to read is one of the harder things I've done in life. It took a lot of concerted effort from several people. She now loves to read. Her brother who is 6 is (was) hearing impaired and now has large gaps. How would you approach teaching a learning disabled child when they missed crucial gaps? (under age 6 he didn't/couldn't hear well, and missed those under age 3 critical times) We have been pushing hard since we remedied that and he has made large substantial leaps with much intervention. He HAD to learn sign language and how to communicate so he could learn. Has anyone had to work with special needs kiddos?
Thanks and New Years blessing to all,
Stefanie in Alaska
1. When you began unschooling did you just say GO, or was it gradual?
2. What structure if any do you offer? With my boys as they are, I am considering a loose schedule they can participate it or not as they are interested. Time for outside play, would you like to do crafts with me now, that kind of thing. I'd like nitty gritty details, lol. I know most families don't have as many kiddos as I do, so I'd especially be interested in hearing from large families that unschool.
3. My only real concern about unschooling is my kiddos with learning disabilities. My daughter who is 11 is severely dyslexic. Teaching her to read is one of the harder things I've done in life. It took a lot of concerted effort from several people. She now loves to read. Her brother who is 6 is (was) hearing impaired and now has large gaps. How would you approach teaching a learning disabled child when they missed crucial gaps? (under age 6 he didn't/couldn't hear well, and missed those under age 3 critical times) We have been pushing hard since we remedied that and he has made large substantial leaps with much intervention. He HAD to learn sign language and how to communicate so he could learn. Has anyone had to work with special needs kiddos?
Thanks and New Years blessing to all,
Stefanie in Alaska
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 1, 2012, at 11:11 PM, bellumswife77 wrote:
And very likely they're feeling the effects of their family falling apart. No matter how welcome you might feel the separation is, it will have a huge life upending effect that will effect them for a huge chunk of their lives. How they show that effect won't necessarily be obvious. (The destructiveness might be part of it.)
If you've also withdrawn yourself somewhat, turned their routine upside down, that will impact them too.
What kids need most from their parents is time, attention and connection.
If you're looking for A Plan to put into place, well, don't ;-) Unschooling can't be done by formula. Radical unschooling is about meeting their needs as fellow human beings who need an atmosphere of connection, trust, respect, support, kindness where they can pursue what interests them. It's pretty easy! And yet hard especially because most of the models we see of parents and children involve parents shaping their kids into being "the best they can be." It isn't about getting to know who your kids are and supporting who they are at all.
Don't see structure as a way to mold their time. See it as a way to get done in the day what each person in the family wants to do and what you want to do for those who are more joiners than independent explorers. Though for all of them you will need to be exposing them to parts of the world that you believe they might find interesting so they have the resources to expand their interests.
You're the cruise director, the maker of things happening, but the foundation you're working from is their needs. To know their needs means getting to know each of them as individuals.
In some ways it's harder with lots of kids. In some ways it's easier since they will meet some of their play needs through each other, which moms of onlies and kids with vastly different interests won't have.
While you were teaching her, she was also getting older, her brain was maturing, she was gaining more experience. If instruction is going on at the same time, it can seem like it's he instruction that's working. It's why schools think they can take credit for teaching kids to read when unschoolers don't do anything that looks like instruction and yet their kids learn to read just fine.
Rather than assuming all that you did was necessary, it's best to start fresh and just ask as though you had no preconceived ideas of what your kids of any stripe need to learn. :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I have just allowed my children to be and do as they wish for several weeks now,It sounds to me like they're craving attention.
> but my younger kiddos ages 8,6,4,3 and 2 are like wild little monkeys. Destructive monkeys.
> They look to me like their are craving some structure,
And very likely they're feeling the effects of their family falling apart. No matter how welcome you might feel the separation is, it will have a huge life upending effect that will effect them for a huge chunk of their lives. How they show that effect won't necessarily be obvious. (The destructiveness might be part of it.)
If you've also withdrawn yourself somewhat, turned their routine upside down, that will impact them too.
What kids need most from their parents is time, attention and connection.
> 1. When you began unschooling did you just say GO, or was it gradual?It depends on the family. It depends on the family's needs. It depends.
If you're looking for A Plan to put into place, well, don't ;-) Unschooling can't be done by formula. Radical unschooling is about meeting their needs as fellow human beings who need an atmosphere of connection, trust, respect, support, kindness where they can pursue what interests them. It's pretty easy! And yet hard especially because most of the models we see of parents and children involve parents shaping their kids into being "the best they can be." It isn't about getting to know who your kids are and supporting who they are at all.
> 2. What structure if any do you offer?It depends what your family needs. The universe provides a structure by bringing the sun up each day. Bodies provide a structure by needing food and sleep at periodic intervals. Beyond that it will depend on what each child needs. It will depend on what you need to provide for their needs.
Don't see structure as a way to mold their time. See it as a way to get done in the day what each person in the family wants to do and what you want to do for those who are more joiners than independent explorers. Though for all of them you will need to be exposing them to parts of the world that you believe they might find interesting so they have the resources to expand their interests.
> With my boys as they are, I am considering a loose schedule they can participate it or not as they are interested. Time for outside play, would you like to do crafts with me now, that kind of thing.Rather than looking at a schedule, look at your kids. Look at how their energy ebbs and flows and focuses during the day and create a loose structure that matches their needs rather than your needs for them.
You're the cruise director, the maker of things happening, but the foundation you're working from is their needs. To know their needs means getting to know each of them as individuals.
In some ways it's harder with lots of kids. In some ways it's easier since they will meet some of their play needs through each other, which moms of onlies and kids with vastly different interests won't have.
> 3. My only real concern about unschooling is my kiddos with learning disabilities. My daughter who is 11 is severely dyslexic. Teaching her to read is one of the harder things I've done in life.It does take longer for dyslexic kids to figure out reading.
While you were teaching her, she was also getting older, her brain was maturing, she was gaining more experience. If instruction is going on at the same time, it can seem like it's he instruction that's working. It's why schools think they can take credit for teaching kids to read when unschoolers don't do anything that looks like instruction and yet their kids learn to read just fine.
Rather than assuming all that you did was necessary, it's best to start fresh and just ask as though you had no preconceived ideas of what your kids of any stripe need to learn. :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
This might help:
http://justaddlightandstir.blogspot.com/2012/01/what-if-parent-is-afraid.html
It's short but has a link to more.
-=. He HAD to learn sign language and how to communicate so he could learn. Has anyone had to work with special needs kiddos?-=-
Did all the rest of the family learn it too? From communicating with him, a great deal can be learned by everyone else.
This will sound crazy and harsh, but no one "has to" work with special needs kids. Not special ed teachers and not their moms.
If you change from "have to" to seeing it as a vast array of choices, you will fee more empowered and less stuck.
http://sandradodd.com/haveto
-=-We are going through a major life change at the moment (divorce)-=-
Is there ANY way that can be reviewed?
bellumswife77 is your yahoo name; that's how your name came through.
While it's possible to unschool as a single mom, that (the ex husband's role/control) can be unschooling's undoing, and it certainly can make it very difficult. You don't need to tell us ANYthing about the situation. I'm writing this not for feedback, but for anyone reading this to see and consider. If a divorce is on the "incompatibility" end of the spectrum of reasons, "irreconcilable differences," rather than violence or bigamy or such, things can sometimes be turned around. Unschooling can help relationships in all kinds of ways. Broken relationships can harm unschooling in all kinds of ways.
The divorce of the original poster might be too far advanced to reconsider, but for others reading here, taking care of your marriage can be part of creating and maintaining a good unschooling environment.
http://archive.aweber.com/marriagemoats/IPfoc/h/Marriage_Moats_The_Dog.htm
I just read that while I was working on this e-mail.
http://sandradodd.com/divorce
Sandra
http://justaddlightandstir.blogspot.com/2012/01/what-if-parent-is-afraid.html
It's short but has a link to more.
-=. He HAD to learn sign language and how to communicate so he could learn. Has anyone had to work with special needs kiddos?-=-
Did all the rest of the family learn it too? From communicating with him, a great deal can be learned by everyone else.
This will sound crazy and harsh, but no one "has to" work with special needs kids. Not special ed teachers and not their moms.
If you change from "have to" to seeing it as a vast array of choices, you will fee more empowered and less stuck.
http://sandradodd.com/haveto
-=-We are going through a major life change at the moment (divorce)-=-
Is there ANY way that can be reviewed?
bellumswife77 is your yahoo name; that's how your name came through.
While it's possible to unschool as a single mom, that (the ex husband's role/control) can be unschooling's undoing, and it certainly can make it very difficult. You don't need to tell us ANYthing about the situation. I'm writing this not for feedback, but for anyone reading this to see and consider. If a divorce is on the "incompatibility" end of the spectrum of reasons, "irreconcilable differences," rather than violence or bigamy or such, things can sometimes be turned around. Unschooling can help relationships in all kinds of ways. Broken relationships can harm unschooling in all kinds of ways.
The divorce of the original poster might be too far advanced to reconsider, but for others reading here, taking care of your marriage can be part of creating and maintaining a good unschooling environment.
http://archive.aweber.com/marriagemoats/IPfoc/h/Marriage_Moats_The_Dog.htm
I just read that while I was working on this e-mail.
http://sandradodd.com/divorce
Sandra
Meredith
"bellumswife77" <stefanie@...> wrote:
It can help to stop and think about the idea of "structure" and pick it apart a little. People often like routines, predictability, security. If you're going through a divorce, your kids have just lost a chunk of two of those. If you've changed your personal schedule from something regular to something looser, they've lost their routines, too. That's not to say they need alarms and lessons and timetables, but they may benefit from things like regular meals, or plans for the week - groceries on thursday and laundry on friday sorts of things.
They need more of your time and energy and attention. If putting those into a schedule helps You do that, then do it - give them the reassurance you're there for them.
Organizing and planning projects is a good idea as long as your flexible enough to go with the flow a bit. If half the kids still run off and break something while you're having a nice craft with the rest, that's not helpful.
Do your kids Like crafty things? Maybe some of them need more active things - like rope climbing or building a fort. Be sure you're looking for activities which will spark your kids' interests, not just things which seem educational.
When teaching reading is hard, then there's almost invariably a mismatch between the teaching method and the learner. Sometimes that mismatch is a result of readiness - some kids aren't ready to read until the early teens! Just as often it's a result of offering a decoding strategy which doesn't work for that particular person. You likely got a lot of bad information about teaching reading and blundered along, not knowing you were making the whole process much harder than it needed to be - bummer! But it may help you to know that it's not the dyslexia itself which is the problem. People with dyslexia don't have any more difficulty learning to read than people without, and have the same range for natural learning - anywhere from 4 to 14 is pretty normal for beginning to read naturally.
I hope you've learned sign language as well! I know many times parents are advised not to, with hearing impaired kids, but the most common complaint of deaf and hard of hearing adults is their parents wouldn't learn to sign and it feels like a kind of rejection. So yes, learning sign is an important skill for your son and anyone close to him. People Want to communicate. It won't even hurt if you have a kind of family language or dialect - deaf people often end up learning multiple forms of sign, anyways, in addition to needing to learn a whole 'nother language for reading and writing. The important thing is for your child to feel capable and connected.
Are you worried about him reading? Get more video games ;) Put captions on the tv. Back off pushing any kind of teaching reading and focus on helping him communicate in ways which work for him. Become his best ally. Eventually, he'll see reading as a useful skill to acquire. One of the advantages of unschooling is there's no timetable for when something Has To be learned and reading, frankly, is learned easier later. The push to get kids reading early has to do with the needs of teachers with two dozen or more kids in a class, it has nothing to do with the needs of children.
---Meredith
>They look to me like their are craving some structure, but I'm hoping this will pass.**************
It can help to stop and think about the idea of "structure" and pick it apart a little. People often like routines, predictability, security. If you're going through a divorce, your kids have just lost a chunk of two of those. If you've changed your personal schedule from something regular to something looser, they've lost their routines, too. That's not to say they need alarms and lessons and timetables, but they may benefit from things like regular meals, or plans for the week - groceries on thursday and laundry on friday sorts of things.
>>my younger kiddos ages 8,6,4,3 and 2 are like wild little monkeys. Destructive monkeys.***************
They need more of your time and energy and attention. If putting those into a schedule helps You do that, then do it - give them the reassurance you're there for them.
Organizing and planning projects is a good idea as long as your flexible enough to go with the flow a bit. If half the kids still run off and break something while you're having a nice craft with the rest, that's not helpful.
Do your kids Like crafty things? Maybe some of them need more active things - like rope climbing or building a fort. Be sure you're looking for activities which will spark your kids' interests, not just things which seem educational.
> 3. My only real concern about unschooling is my kiddos with learning disabilities. My daughter who is 11 is severely dyslexic. Teaching her to read is one of the harder things I've done in life.*****************
When teaching reading is hard, then there's almost invariably a mismatch between the teaching method and the learner. Sometimes that mismatch is a result of readiness - some kids aren't ready to read until the early teens! Just as often it's a result of offering a decoding strategy which doesn't work for that particular person. You likely got a lot of bad information about teaching reading and blundered along, not knowing you were making the whole process much harder than it needed to be - bummer! But it may help you to know that it's not the dyslexia itself which is the problem. People with dyslexia don't have any more difficulty learning to read than people without, and have the same range for natural learning - anywhere from 4 to 14 is pretty normal for beginning to read naturally.
>>He HAD to learn sign language and how to communicate so he could learn.**************
I hope you've learned sign language as well! I know many times parents are advised not to, with hearing impaired kids, but the most common complaint of deaf and hard of hearing adults is their parents wouldn't learn to sign and it feels like a kind of rejection. So yes, learning sign is an important skill for your son and anyone close to him. People Want to communicate. It won't even hurt if you have a kind of family language or dialect - deaf people often end up learning multiple forms of sign, anyways, in addition to needing to learn a whole 'nother language for reading and writing. The important thing is for your child to feel capable and connected.
Are you worried about him reading? Get more video games ;) Put captions on the tv. Back off pushing any kind of teaching reading and focus on helping him communicate in ways which work for him. Become his best ally. Eventually, he'll see reading as a useful skill to acquire. One of the advantages of unschooling is there's no timetable for when something Has To be learned and reading, frankly, is learned easier later. The push to get kids reading early has to do with the needs of teachers with two dozen or more kids in a class, it has nothing to do with the needs of children.
>>(under age 6 he didn't/couldn't hear well, and missed those under age 3 critical times)More and more, scientists are finding the idea of "critical stages" is a fallacy and the only true critical periods occur in utero. But also keep in mind that a great deal of the "education" of kids with special needs has to do with trying to get them to seem normal - and the results of that involve kids with enormous deficits in self esteem. Help your son achieve what He wants to achieve - not in the sense of "lets set some goals" but in the sense of getting closer to him as a person so you can know his interests and aspirations in the moment.
---Meredith
Sandra Dodd
-=-People with dyslexia don't have any more difficulty learning to read than people without,-=-
I don't think that's true, but I think teaching might hurt them more than it would hurt other people. :-)
They need to figure it out their own way, and until they get old enough and experienced enough--until they've figured out their own way to know left from right and settle on a direction--it won't be easy for them.
Teaching (by ANY method) will not help with any of that.
-=-When teaching reading is hard, then there's almost invariably a mismatch between the teaching method and the learner. -=-
When learning reading from someone who is trying to teach it works, that's probably largely coincidence.
I'd rather not have people on this list recommending ANY sort of "teaching reading," no matter how matched the method and learner. It doesn't lead toward a better understanding of natural learning.
-=- It won't even hurt if you have a kind of family language or dialect - deaf people often end up learning multiple forms of sign, anyways, in addition to needing to learn a whole 'nother language for reading and writing. The important thing is for your child to feel capable and connected. -=-
It wouldn't hurt for a family to have a family language or dialect, but if they live in a world where people speak English (or whatever other language), the parents really ought to help their children know the local language.
Same with sign language. Assuming the parents want to have a cohesive family and good relationships with the child, it would help for them to be able to converse about higher ideas, and to converse with the children's eventual friends.
-=- Back off pushing any kind of teaching reading and focus on helping him communicate in ways which work for him. Become his best ally. Eventually, he'll see reading as a useful skill to acquire. -=-
Seeing reading as a useful skill to acquire isn't necessarily going to help a person learn to read, though.
Reading is figured out when it's figured out. For some people that's at three or four years old. For some that's ten or twelve. It's not desire that makes reading happen, nor is it instruction. It's the presence and maturity of several kinds of abilities.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't think that's true, but I think teaching might hurt them more than it would hurt other people. :-)
They need to figure it out their own way, and until they get old enough and experienced enough--until they've figured out their own way to know left from right and settle on a direction--it won't be easy for them.
Teaching (by ANY method) will not help with any of that.
-=-When teaching reading is hard, then there's almost invariably a mismatch between the teaching method and the learner. -=-
When learning reading from someone who is trying to teach it works, that's probably largely coincidence.
I'd rather not have people on this list recommending ANY sort of "teaching reading," no matter how matched the method and learner. It doesn't lead toward a better understanding of natural learning.
-=- It won't even hurt if you have a kind of family language or dialect - deaf people often end up learning multiple forms of sign, anyways, in addition to needing to learn a whole 'nother language for reading and writing. The important thing is for your child to feel capable and connected. -=-
It wouldn't hurt for a family to have a family language or dialect, but if they live in a world where people speak English (or whatever other language), the parents really ought to help their children know the local language.
Same with sign language. Assuming the parents want to have a cohesive family and good relationships with the child, it would help for them to be able to converse about higher ideas, and to converse with the children's eventual friends.
-=- Back off pushing any kind of teaching reading and focus on helping him communicate in ways which work for him. Become his best ally. Eventually, he'll see reading as a useful skill to acquire. -=-
Seeing reading as a useful skill to acquire isn't necessarily going to help a person learn to read, though.
Reading is figured out when it's figured out. For some people that's at three or four years old. For some that's ten or twelve. It's not desire that makes reading happen, nor is it instruction. It's the presence and maturity of several kinds of abilities.
Sandra
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Ed Wendell
When we brought Zachariah home from school mid third grade (age 8.5) he had been in a public Montessori school since age 3. He was failing school due to Dyslexia/Dysgraphia/Dyscalculia. Every year from first grade through mid third grade all we heard was how smart he was and yet because he could not read and write he needed to repeat that grade - which we refused until we were told that because he could not pass the state test in third grade he would be retained anyway. The school told us they had no idea how to help someone that was considered "gifted" with an "LD". To be honest all they ever focused on was the LD.
We never homeschooled school at home, we unschooled all along.
Fast forward to age 17.5 It's been exactly 9 years as we pulled him out of school over Christmas break. Anyway, he commented last fall that he thinks his reading is just fine now. He decided to start community college this coming semester. For the entrance test he scored extremely high in English and reading. My point is, given the freedom to develop and progress on his own with very supportive/involved parents he is now considered a high reader not only by himself but college as well.
Unschooling in the beginning was pretty much Lego's Lego's Lego's and lots of TV/movies/film as well as activities outside the home. He began gaming at around age 10. He'd sit and play at the desk and we had a recliner near by where I'd sit and read books or use the lap top - close enough to immediately read or spell for him when he requested help. Then came game guides. Anime led to Manga. Sandwiched in amongst this was more Lego's ;) books with lots of pictures and captions under those pictures, movies and films that interested him, going places of interest, YouTube, Googling for more info, board games, Magic The Gathering card gaming, etc. - providing lots of various experiences in things he was interested in. For example a trip to the Art museum would not have captured his interest in and of itself, but a trip there in conjunction with their Chinese New Year celebration activities did.
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We never homeschooled school at home, we unschooled all along.
Fast forward to age 17.5 It's been exactly 9 years as we pulled him out of school over Christmas break. Anyway, he commented last fall that he thinks his reading is just fine now. He decided to start community college this coming semester. For the entrance test he scored extremely high in English and reading. My point is, given the freedom to develop and progress on his own with very supportive/involved parents he is now considered a high reader not only by himself but college as well.
Unschooling in the beginning was pretty much Lego's Lego's Lego's and lots of TV/movies/film as well as activities outside the home. He began gaming at around age 10. He'd sit and play at the desk and we had a recliner near by where I'd sit and read books or use the lap top - close enough to immediately read or spell for him when he requested help. Then came game guides. Anime led to Manga. Sandwiched in amongst this was more Lego's ;) books with lots of pictures and captions under those pictures, movies and films that interested him, going places of interest, YouTube, Googling for more info, board games, Magic The Gathering card gaming, etc. - providing lots of various experiences in things he was interested in. For example a trip to the Art museum would not have captured his interest in and of itself, but a trip there in conjunction with their Chinese New Year celebration activities did.
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]