Clarifying some unschooling aspects
malibu_n_milk2000
Been reading this list for a while but dont think I've posted yet.
I'm a single mum to a 6 mo and a 27mo so my boys are still very young, found out about unschooling about a year ago and have been reading and trying to put into practice ever since.
With all the disscussions of late, I'm just wanting to ask some questions for clarification on my own understanding of some aspects of unschooling. So please correct me on this or add things that I may be missing etc if you will..
So, one of the aspects of unschooling is to get everyones needs met. For example I've read lots of questions about kids not wanting to go shopping with their parents, so as an unschooler we would look for ways to not have to bring the child with us, so they could stay at home somehow, respecting their desires so to speak? And if it wasnt possible for them to stay home, we'd find a way to make to trip more fun by going somewhere of interest to them etc? (I'm aiming this at young children who are too young to stay at home on their own).
One of the areas I am a bit confused is when a child has 'misbehaved' for want of a better word. For example, siblings are hitting, a ball is being throw in the house where its not safe, or for example my 2 yo is drawing on the walls. Is this where Principles come in? How do you communicate these? Coming from an authoritarian upbringing myself, I really have NO real life examples of what it would look like to discuss principles with a child that is not coming across as coercive or authoritarian control. I read a lot about people saying they disscuss with their children about things on TV or in the media, (advertising for example) so they can come to their own decisions about these things, or food too and how we feel after we have eaten certain foods. I would actually love if someone felt inclined to post some youtube videos on this topic giving specific examples, so I can hear tone of voice, what words you use, how you say it, how you start the conversation. I know it is so dependant on age of child, and also personality, but examples non the less for me are really helpful. (For example Sandra responded to someone on another post / list about her child calling her mom 'stupid' and wrote what she would say to the child. that was really helpful for me, it seemed so simple and obvious, yet I cant seem to get my head around it for anything else.. yet)
Thanks
Emma
I'm a single mum to a 6 mo and a 27mo so my boys are still very young, found out about unschooling about a year ago and have been reading and trying to put into practice ever since.
With all the disscussions of late, I'm just wanting to ask some questions for clarification on my own understanding of some aspects of unschooling. So please correct me on this or add things that I may be missing etc if you will..
So, one of the aspects of unschooling is to get everyones needs met. For example I've read lots of questions about kids not wanting to go shopping with their parents, so as an unschooler we would look for ways to not have to bring the child with us, so they could stay at home somehow, respecting their desires so to speak? And if it wasnt possible for them to stay home, we'd find a way to make to trip more fun by going somewhere of interest to them etc? (I'm aiming this at young children who are too young to stay at home on their own).
One of the areas I am a bit confused is when a child has 'misbehaved' for want of a better word. For example, siblings are hitting, a ball is being throw in the house where its not safe, or for example my 2 yo is drawing on the walls. Is this where Principles come in? How do you communicate these? Coming from an authoritarian upbringing myself, I really have NO real life examples of what it would look like to discuss principles with a child that is not coming across as coercive or authoritarian control. I read a lot about people saying they disscuss with their children about things on TV or in the media, (advertising for example) so they can come to their own decisions about these things, or food too and how we feel after we have eaten certain foods. I would actually love if someone felt inclined to post some youtube videos on this topic giving specific examples, so I can hear tone of voice, what words you use, how you say it, how you start the conversation. I know it is so dependant on age of child, and also personality, but examples non the less for me are really helpful. (For example Sandra responded to someone on another post / list about her child calling her mom 'stupid' and wrote what she would say to the child. that was really helpful for me, it seemed so simple and obvious, yet I cant seem to get my head around it for anything else.. yet)
Thanks
Emma
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 19, 2011, at 3:31 PM, malibu_n_milk2000 wrote:
that again, you'll be confused, disappointed and frustrated when that
doesn't work!
Tell them to stop, yes! Communicate what's okay and what isn't okay.
But don't expect them to then police themselves. It's your job to
create a peaceful home, not theirs
See their action as communication. They're trying a way that they
understand to meet a need. They may know it's not the right solution
but the need is large and their tool box is small. They need help
seeing other, better solutions!
Find places and ways the 2 yo *can* draw. The drawing on the walls is
a need to draw. Draw with washable paints or something in the bathtub.
Put up large sheets of paper in the hallway. Chalk for the driveway.
"Paint" with water on the side of the house.
Where *can* they throw balls? What can they throw in the house? Get
them out to use up the large muscle energy that's in them.
Why are the kids hitting? The answer to most problems is be more
present. Be there to redirect before they get to the hitting stage.
That will cut down on many. Feed them before they get to the melt down
stage.
http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting
Have you read "Siblings Without Rivarly"? You might be inadvertently
contributing to the need to compete for scarce resrouces.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> For example, siblings are hitting, a ball is being throw in theIf you're thinking of communication as a way to get them to not do
> house where its not safe, or for example my 2 yo is drawing on the
> walls. Is this where Principles come in? How do you communicate these?
that again, you'll be confused, disappointed and frustrated when that
doesn't work!
Tell them to stop, yes! Communicate what's okay and what isn't okay.
But don't expect them to then police themselves. It's your job to
create a peaceful home, not theirs
See their action as communication. They're trying a way that they
understand to meet a need. They may know it's not the right solution
but the need is large and their tool box is small. They need help
seeing other, better solutions!
Find places and ways the 2 yo *can* draw. The drawing on the walls is
a need to draw. Draw with washable paints or something in the bathtub.
Put up large sheets of paper in the hallway. Chalk for the driveway.
"Paint" with water on the side of the house.
Where *can* they throw balls? What can they throw in the house? Get
them out to use up the large muscle energy that's in them.
Why are the kids hitting? The answer to most problems is be more
present. Be there to redirect before they get to the hitting stage.
That will cut down on many. Feed them before they get to the melt down
stage.
http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting
Have you read "Siblings Without Rivarly"? You might be inadvertently
contributing to the need to compete for scarce resrouces.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 9/19/2011 12:31 PM, malibu_n_milk2000 wrote:
Kids will Listen and Listen so Kids will Talk." Please take them only as
examples and don't try to follow the scripts - let them give you ideas
for ways to talk with your kids. Also, with children as young as yours,
there should be very very very little "explaining" or discussing unless
it is entirely initiated by the child. Mostly use the two best tools for
parents of littles --- set the environment up for them to be successful
and distract them when a change is needed and something isn't working.
Children learn the most about not hitting and namecalling and all that
stuff by you not letting it carry on in your family. If they don't grow
up with it, they won't like it and won't tolerate it in themselves or
others.
-pam
> (For example Sandra responded to someone on another post / list aboutFor some example scripts, be sure to take a look at: "How to Talk so
> her child calling her mom 'stupid' and wrote what she would say to the
> child. that was really helpful for me, it seemed so simple and
> obvious, yet I cant seem to get my head around it for anything else.. yet)
Kids will Listen and Listen so Kids will Talk." Please take them only as
examples and don't try to follow the scripts - let them give you ideas
for ways to talk with your kids. Also, with children as young as yours,
there should be very very very little "explaining" or discussing unless
it is entirely initiated by the child. Mostly use the two best tools for
parents of littles --- set the environment up for them to be successful
and distract them when a change is needed and something isn't working.
Children learn the most about not hitting and namecalling and all that
stuff by you not letting it carry on in your family. If they don't grow
up with it, they won't like it and won't tolerate it in themselves or
others.
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=So, one of the aspects of unschooling is to get everyones needs met.-=-
It's not always possible to treat everyone equally all the time, so to state that as "an aspect" as thought it's required or possible will be an obstacle.
-=-One of the areas I am a bit confused is when a child has 'misbehaved' for want of a better word. -=-
Finding a better word will help. Or if you discover that you can't find a term for it, then rephrase entirely. Seeing things in a different way is what will move you from where you are to where you want to be.
-=- For example, siblings are hitting, a ball is being throw in the house where its not safe, or for example my 2 yo is drawing on the walls. Is this where Principles come in? How do you communicate these? -=-
You don't communicate the principles to a child. You make your own decisions based on those.
The best answer to anything here is "it depends." Depends on what? Circumstances and beliefs. Intentions and abilities.
If a child is drawing on the wall, assume he wants to draw. Find him something to draw on. If a ball is being thrown in the house, find a place to throw it, or find a safer ball (a little nerf ball). If a child is hitting, don't look at the hitting in isolation, but back up two or three or four steps and see what the frustration was, or what was done by the other child. Prevent the hitting even if you have to physically restrain someone, but don't assume that the hitting itself is "the problem."
-=-Coming from an authoritarian upbringing myself, I really have NO real life examples of what it would look like to discuss principles with a child -=-
You're on the wrong trail with the idea of discussing principles with the children.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's not always possible to treat everyone equally all the time, so to state that as "an aspect" as thought it's required or possible will be an obstacle.
-=-One of the areas I am a bit confused is when a child has 'misbehaved' for want of a better word. -=-
Finding a better word will help. Or if you discover that you can't find a term for it, then rephrase entirely. Seeing things in a different way is what will move you from where you are to where you want to be.
-=- For example, siblings are hitting, a ball is being throw in the house where its not safe, or for example my 2 yo is drawing on the walls. Is this where Principles come in? How do you communicate these? -=-
You don't communicate the principles to a child. You make your own decisions based on those.
The best answer to anything here is "it depends." Depends on what? Circumstances and beliefs. Intentions and abilities.
If a child is drawing on the wall, assume he wants to draw. Find him something to draw on. If a ball is being thrown in the house, find a place to throw it, or find a safer ball (a little nerf ball). If a child is hitting, don't look at the hitting in isolation, but back up two or three or four steps and see what the frustration was, or what was done by the other child. Prevent the hitting even if you have to physically restrain someone, but don't assume that the hitting itself is "the problem."
-=-Coming from an authoritarian upbringing myself, I really have NO real life examples of what it would look like to discuss principles with a child -=-
You're on the wrong trail with the idea of discussing principles with the children.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Children learn the most about not hitting and namecalling and all that
stuff by you not letting it carry on in your family. If they don't grow
up with it, they won't like it and won't tolerate it in themselves or
others.-=-
Last weekend, I went on a road trip. Marty drove me, his girlfriend, Holly and her boyfriend three/four hours north so we could hear my sister perform at a restaurant/bar. We stayed in little cabins at a lodge her boyfriend owns.
We were all having fun. In the last half hour we were there, I was taking photos of Irene (my sister) and Will and Holly; they were up on a bridge and I was down by the river. I could tell my sister was telling them a story about me, and then laughing at me.
She told me, when she was nearer, that she was telling Holly that when my kids were little I wouldn't let her teach them a little finger/game/rhyme thing. So she was laughing at me, Saturday, for being protective. And the thing I didn't want her to do to them or teach them was something that was done to me as a young child, and that I did to other young children, because we didn't have anything kinder or better to do.
It was to point up and say "look up" and the other kid does.
And point down and say "look down," and the other kid does.
and then point a finger out and go around in a circle and say "look all around," and the other, younger kid, does, thinking it's fun, and that they're really playing a game with an older kid.
And then you put your thumb out and say "Look at my thumb. Gee, you're dumb."
My sister laughed at that, and laughed at me for thinking it wasn't a good thing.
But I'm sure I did it to my sister 30 times when we were little, and I wish I never had.
Little insults and negativity erode joy and trust.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
stuff by you not letting it carry on in your family. If they don't grow
up with it, they won't like it and won't tolerate it in themselves or
others.-=-
Last weekend, I went on a road trip. Marty drove me, his girlfriend, Holly and her boyfriend three/four hours north so we could hear my sister perform at a restaurant/bar. We stayed in little cabins at a lodge her boyfriend owns.
We were all having fun. In the last half hour we were there, I was taking photos of Irene (my sister) and Will and Holly; they were up on a bridge and I was down by the river. I could tell my sister was telling them a story about me, and then laughing at me.
She told me, when she was nearer, that she was telling Holly that when my kids were little I wouldn't let her teach them a little finger/game/rhyme thing. So she was laughing at me, Saturday, for being protective. And the thing I didn't want her to do to them or teach them was something that was done to me as a young child, and that I did to other young children, because we didn't have anything kinder or better to do.
It was to point up and say "look up" and the other kid does.
And point down and say "look down," and the other kid does.
and then point a finger out and go around in a circle and say "look all around," and the other, younger kid, does, thinking it's fun, and that they're really playing a game with an older kid.
And then you put your thumb out and say "Look at my thumb. Gee, you're dumb."
My sister laughed at that, and laughed at me for thinking it wasn't a good thing.
But I'm sure I did it to my sister 30 times when we were little, and I wish I never had.
Little insults and negativity erode joy and trust.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kristen
==You're on the wrong trail with the idea of discussing principles with the children.==
Sandra, could you please clarify this statement? Is this in reference to an authoritarian upbringing, or to the young ages of the children, or have I missed another point entirely?
-Kristen
Sandra, could you please clarify this statement? Is this in reference to an authoritarian upbringing, or to the young ages of the children, or have I missed another point entirely?
-Kristen
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=So, one of the aspects of unschooling is to get everyones needs met.-=-
>
> It's not always possible to treat everyone equally all the time, so to state that as "an aspect" as thought it's required or possible will be an obstacle.
>
> -=-One of the areas I am a bit confused is when a child has 'misbehaved' for want of a better word. -=-
>
> Finding a better word will help. Or if you discover that you can't find a term for it, then rephrase entirely. Seeing things in a different way is what will move you from where you are to where you want to be.
>
> -=- For example, siblings are hitting, a ball is being throw in the house where its not safe, or for example my 2 yo is drawing on the walls. Is this where Principles come in? How do you communicate these? -=-
>
> You don't communicate the principles to a child. You make your own decisions based on those.
>
> The best answer to anything here is "it depends." Depends on what? Circumstances and beliefs. Intentions and abilities.
>
> If a child is drawing on the wall, assume he wants to draw. Find him something to draw on. If a ball is being thrown in the house, find a place to throw it, or find a safer ball (a little nerf ball). If a child is hitting, don't look at the hitting in isolation, but back up two or three or four steps and see what the frustration was, or what was done by the other child. Prevent the hitting even if you have to physically restrain someone, but don't assume that the hitting itself is "the problem."
>
> -=-Coming from an authoritarian upbringing myself, I really have NO real life examples of what it would look like to discuss principles with a child -=-
>
> You're on the wrong trail with the idea of discussing principles with the children.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 20, 2011, at 1:03 AM, Kristen wrote:
"You don't communicate the principles to a child. You make your own
decisions based on those."
Don't try to teach principles. Use them as tools. Use them as tools to
help you make the choices that turn you in the direction you want to
go. Use them as tools to help your kids meet their needs.
That is, if one of the principles you value is kindness, you be kind.
Insert yourself when the atmosphere in the home is not kind. (Even
better is to be there to redirect to keep it from devolving to
unkindness) Help them explore solutions that are in keeping with your
principles.
I hadn't thought of this before but principles are like language. You
don't teach your kids how to speak. Language is a tool that you use
to communicate. So you speak to kids. And as a side effect, they pick
up language. But to learn language, they need to be immersed in it.
Language needs to be something they find useful for their own needs.
Otherwise, why would they use it?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> ==You're on the wrong trail with the idea of discussing principlesDid you miss this part of her reply:
> with the children.==
>
> Sandra, could you please clarify this statement? Is this in
> reference to an authoritarian upbringing, or to the young ages of
> the children, or have I missed another point entirely?
"You don't communicate the principles to a child. You make your own
decisions based on those."
Don't try to teach principles. Use them as tools. Use them as tools to
help you make the choices that turn you in the direction you want to
go. Use them as tools to help your kids meet their needs.
That is, if one of the principles you value is kindness, you be kind.
Insert yourself when the atmosphere in the home is not kind. (Even
better is to be there to redirect to keep it from devolving to
unkindness) Help them explore solutions that are in keeping with your
principles.
I hadn't thought of this before but principles are like language. You
don't teach your kids how to speak. Language is a tool that you use
to communicate. So you speak to kids. And as a side effect, they pick
up language. But to learn language, they need to be immersed in it.
Language needs to be something they find useful for their own needs.
Otherwise, why would they use it?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Sometimes it's good to be asleep and have Joyce Fetteroll answer questions put to me! I'm going to add Joyce's response here:
http://sandradodd.com/principles/
Living by principles is philosophy. It's deciding what you believe, and then living in accordance with your beliefs. Another way to see it is envisioning the kind of person you want to be, your ideal self and surroundings, and then making decisions that lead toward and not away from that.
Sandra
http://sandradodd.com/principles/
Living by principles is philosophy. It's deciding what you believe, and then living in accordance with your beliefs. Another way to see it is envisioning the kind of person you want to be, your ideal self and surroundings, and then making decisions that lead toward and not away from that.
Sandra
malibu_n_milk2000
> Finding a better word will help. Or if you discover that you can't find a term for it, then rephrase entirely. Seeing things in a different way is what will move you from where you are to where you want to be.Can you give me some other perspectives here please? How would you see it?
> You're on the wrong trail with the idea of discussing principles with the children.Yes, ok, got it, i think, its living our principles not communicating them. But I'm assuming if our kids where to ask us about why we do or dont do certain things (related to our principles) we would then have a conversation with them about it? (I'm talking older kids).
Thanks
Emma
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=So, one of the aspects of unschooling is to get everyones needs met.-=-
>
> It's not always possible to treat everyone equally all the time, so to state that as "an aspect" as thought it's required or possible will be an obstacle.
>
> -=-One of the areas I am a bit confused is when a child has 'misbehaved' for want of a better word. -=-
>
> Finding a better word will help. Or if you discover that you can't find a term for it, then rephrase entirely. Seeing things in a different way is what will move you from where you are to where you want to be.
>
> -=- For example, siblings are hitting, a ball is being throw in the house where its not safe, or for example my 2 yo is drawing on the walls. Is this where Principles come in? How do you communicate these? -=-
>
> You don't communicate the principles to a child. You make your own decisions based on those.
>
> The best answer to anything here is "it depends." Depends on what? Circumstances and beliefs. Intentions and abilities.
>
> If a child is drawing on the wall, assume he wants to draw. Find him something to draw on. If a ball is being thrown in the house, find a place to throw it, or find a safer ball (a little nerf ball). If a child is hitting, don't look at the hitting in isolation, but back up two or three or four steps and see what the frustration was, or what was done by the other child. Prevent the hitting even if you have to physically restrain someone, but don't assume that the hitting itself is "the problem."
>
> -=-Coming from an authoritarian upbringing myself, I really have NO real life examples of what it would look like to discuss principles with a child -=-
>
> You're on the wrong trail with the idea of discussing principles with the children.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
malibu_n_milk2000
> That is, if one of the principles you value is kindness, you be kind.This is beautiful :) I'm a visual learner and I think you just helped me paint a picture! In fact I may post this quote on my fridge as what your saying is really all that needs to happen, if I am focusing on 'my principles' and acting from them, in this case kindness, then the answers will come on their own, all I have to do is be kind and come from a place of feeling that.
> Insert yourself when the atmosphere in the home is not kind. (Even
> better is to be there to redirect to keep it from devolving to
> unkindness) Help them explore solutions that are in keeping with your
> principles.
and the same with the principle of saftey, if he's jumping on the couch, I dont need to worry about what to say to him or whether to correct him or make him wrong or sorry or any other number of things that old school parenting would have us think we need to do, all I have to do is make sure he's safe with no judgement.
If what I'm saying is along the right train of thought then great as it feels really freeing to do that, and so simple.
Emma
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Sep 20, 2011, at 1:03 AM, Kristen wrote:
>
> > ==You're on the wrong trail with the idea of discussing principles
> > with the children.==
> >
> > Sandra, could you please clarify this statement? Is this in
> > reference to an authoritarian upbringing, or to the young ages of
> > the children, or have I missed another point entirely?
>
> Did you miss this part of her reply:
>
> "You don't communicate the principles to a child. You make your own
> decisions based on those."
>
> Don't try to teach principles. Use them as tools. Use them as tools to
> help you make the choices that turn you in the direction you want to
> go. Use them as tools to help your kids meet their needs.
>
> That is, if one of the principles you value is kindness, you be kind.
> Insert yourself when the atmosphere in the home is not kind. (Even
> better is to be there to redirect to keep it from devolving to
> unkindness) Help them explore solutions that are in keeping with your
> principles.
>
> I hadn't thought of this before but principles are like language. You
> don't teach your kids how to speak. Language is a tool that you use
> to communicate. So you speak to kids. And as a side effect, they pick
> up language. But to learn language, they need to be immersed in it.
> Language needs to be something they find useful for their own needs.
> Otherwise, why would they use it?
>
> Joyce
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-> Finding a better word will help. Or if you discover that you can't find a term for it, then rephrase entirely. Seeing things in a different way is what will move you from where you are to where you want to be.
-=-Can you give me some other perspectives here please? How would you see it?-=-
I AM trying to give you a better perspective. If you yourself cannot rephrase what you're saying, then don't say it. If you're using a phrase (to have control over) but you can't think of another way to express that thought, then it's highly likely that you didn't really have a thought so much as you grasped for pre-formed phrases and other-used ideas and plugged them together. If you're thinking/writing/speaking in idioms, and you're confused, then try removing the other images and ideas and phrases and look directly at your children and their situation and see what it is you're seeing or trying to understand.
This isn't quite fair, I guess, as you were content with your understanding, and I objected to "control" (the term and the idea and the overlay of "control"). But for the benefit of others reading, I appreciate your willingness to look at it anyway.
As to those borrowed phrases, I have a collection:
http://sandradodd.com/phrases
-=-Yes, ok, got it, i think, its living our principles not communicating them. But I'm assuming if our kids where to ask us about why we do or dont do certain things (related to our principles) we would then have a conversation with them about it? (I'm talking older kids).-=-
First sentence:
-=- living our principles not communicating them-=-
You will be communicating in all your touch, gaze and speech.
I hope you won't be narrating what you're doing and why.
Don't talk about living so much as live directly.
-=-But I'm assuming if our kids where to ask us about why we do or dont do certain things (related to our principles) we would then have a conversation with them about it? (I'm talking older kids).-=-
The problem in all that is the "we." All unschoolers will not do the same thing. There is no central unschooling committee telling others what we will all do and how. There are principles. You act; your child responds. You respond. They might respond. You might respond. Like a chess game. We can't tell you what the fifth move will be. We don't know what the four before that are. We don't know whether you're intending to play the same way you did last time or not.
If your husband asked you why you do or don't do something, would you have a conversation with him about it?
I'm guessing you would.
If you had a guest at your house who asked why you had or did or said something, would you respond conversationally? I'm guessing yes.
When you're wondering how to respond to your children, it can help to think about how you would respond to a friend or a guest.
Sandra
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-Can you give me some other perspectives here please? How would you see it?-=-
I AM trying to give you a better perspective. If you yourself cannot rephrase what you're saying, then don't say it. If you're using a phrase (to have control over) but you can't think of another way to express that thought, then it's highly likely that you didn't really have a thought so much as you grasped for pre-formed phrases and other-used ideas and plugged them together. If you're thinking/writing/speaking in idioms, and you're confused, then try removing the other images and ideas and phrases and look directly at your children and their situation and see what it is you're seeing or trying to understand.
This isn't quite fair, I guess, as you were content with your understanding, and I objected to "control" (the term and the idea and the overlay of "control"). But for the benefit of others reading, I appreciate your willingness to look at it anyway.
As to those borrowed phrases, I have a collection:
http://sandradodd.com/phrases
-=-Yes, ok, got it, i think, its living our principles not communicating them. But I'm assuming if our kids where to ask us about why we do or dont do certain things (related to our principles) we would then have a conversation with them about it? (I'm talking older kids).-=-
First sentence:
-=- living our principles not communicating them-=-
You will be communicating in all your touch, gaze and speech.
I hope you won't be narrating what you're doing and why.
Don't talk about living so much as live directly.
-=-But I'm assuming if our kids where to ask us about why we do or dont do certain things (related to our principles) we would then have a conversation with them about it? (I'm talking older kids).-=-
The problem in all that is the "we." All unschoolers will not do the same thing. There is no central unschooling committee telling others what we will all do and how. There are principles. You act; your child responds. You respond. They might respond. You might respond. Like a chess game. We can't tell you what the fifth move will be. We don't know what the four before that are. We don't know whether you're intending to play the same way you did last time or not.
If your husband asked you why you do or don't do something, would you have a conversation with him about it?
I'm guessing you would.
If you had a guest at your house who asked why you had or did or said something, would you respond conversationally? I'm guessing yes.
When you're wondering how to respond to your children, it can help to think about how you would respond to a friend or a guest.
Sandra
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***and the same with the principle of saftey, if he's jumping on the couch, I dont need to worry about what to say to him or whether to correct him or make him wrong or sorry or any other number of things that old school parenting would have us think we need to do, all I have to do is make sure he's safe with no judgement.***
Unless of course you don't want people to jump on the couch. Then you need to find an alternative to couch jumping. It's about meeting needs. Your child has a need to burn off energy, maybe even to jump and he also has a need to do so safely. The couch need not be the location for jumping safely.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Unless of course you don't want people to jump on the couch. Then you need to find an alternative to couch jumping. It's about meeting needs. Your child has a need to burn off energy, maybe even to jump and he also has a need to do so safely. The couch need not be the location for jumping safely.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***and the same with the principle of saftey, if he's jumping on the couch, I dont need to worry about what to say to him or whether to correct him or make him wrong or sorry or any other number of things that old school parenting would have us think we need to do, all I have to do is make sure he's safe with no judgement.***
Unless of course you don't want people to jump on the couch. Then you need to find an alternative to couch jumping. It's about meeting needs. Your child has a need to burn off energy, maybe even to jump and he also has a need to do so safely. The couch need not be the location for jumping safely.
************************
I'm adding to what I wrote above.
We all make judgments everyday. I don't like the idea that parents shouldn't judge the behavior of their kids, or the behavior of themselves and others around them.
Personally, I wouldn't like my kids jumping on the couch. That's a personal choice, but it's my couch, one that I've provided for my kids to use as a comfortable place to hang out. It's not that the furniture is more important than my child's desire to jump on it, it's that I want a piece of furniture that can be used as it's designed to be used. We have a mini trampoline if people feel like doing jumping in the house. There are lots of things that could be jumped on. It was my judgment call that said the couch was off limits.
Unschooling isn't about accepting any child behavior without judgment. Create a great nest for your kids. Allow them all kinds of instances where you say "yes" to things they want. Find creative ways to meet the goal of jumping. Beds work much better for jumping anyway.
It's like the writing on the wall. If you really don't like your child to write on the walls, find another way to meet that need. When our young wall writer was active, we hung large sheets of paper from the floor to as high as she could reach and covered 2 entire walls like that in the hallway of our house. We left a little tub of crayons next to it. I only cleaned that wall from crayon once. The papers were left up for at least 2 yrs and eventually were covered entirely with drawings.
I made a judgment that I didn't want to scrub crayon off of walls repeatedly and found a solution that met both our needs.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Unless of course you don't want people to jump on the couch. Then you need to find an alternative to couch jumping. It's about meeting needs. Your child has a need to burn off energy, maybe even to jump and he also has a need to do so safely. The couch need not be the location for jumping safely.
************************
I'm adding to what I wrote above.
We all make judgments everyday. I don't like the idea that parents shouldn't judge the behavior of their kids, or the behavior of themselves and others around them.
Personally, I wouldn't like my kids jumping on the couch. That's a personal choice, but it's my couch, one that I've provided for my kids to use as a comfortable place to hang out. It's not that the furniture is more important than my child's desire to jump on it, it's that I want a piece of furniture that can be used as it's designed to be used. We have a mini trampoline if people feel like doing jumping in the house. There are lots of things that could be jumped on. It was my judgment call that said the couch was off limits.
Unschooling isn't about accepting any child behavior without judgment. Create a great nest for your kids. Allow them all kinds of instances where you say "yes" to things they want. Find creative ways to meet the goal of jumping. Beds work much better for jumping anyway.
It's like the writing on the wall. If you really don't like your child to write on the walls, find another way to meet that need. When our young wall writer was active, we hung large sheets of paper from the floor to as high as she could reach and covered 2 entire walls like that in the hallway of our house. We left a little tub of crayons next to it. I only cleaned that wall from crayon once. The papers were left up for at least 2 yrs and eventually were covered entirely with drawings.
I made a judgment that I didn't want to scrub crayon off of walls repeatedly and found a solution that met both our needs.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- In fact I may post this quote on my fridge as what your saying is really all that needs to happen, if I am focusing on 'my principles' and acting from them, in this case kindness, then the answers will come on their own, all I have to do is be kind and come from a place of feeling that. -=-
Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch.
Just as you seemed to be asking us to tell you what to say to your children, and how (living in words, asking for a YouTube video), now you've read something Joyce wrote, and then turned around and rephrased it to her in your own words, assuring us all that that's what she meant, that it's simple, and now you know that "all you have to do is..."
Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch.
There is more to it than being kind and coming from a place of feeling that. What you wrote is not bad at all. It's just not all you need to be a good unschooler.
-=-and the same with the principle of saftey, if he's jumping on the couch, I dont need to worry about what to say to him or whether to correct him or make him wrong or sorry or any other number of things that old school parenting would have us think we need to do, all I have to do is make sure he's safe with no judgement. -=-
It depends which couch. How important is that couch? Does it belong to you? He might be wrong.
Is the couch in a funeral home, during a viewing? Then he's wrong, it's not appropriate, it's not your couch, it's not okay for him to jump on it and no words will change that.
We are not recommending that you abandon all the things "old school parenting" had you thinking you need to do.
It's not another "all I have to do" situation.
Yes, make sure he's safe. Also help him learn how to be in the world. He's new here, and you're not. Give him a clue.
Assuming it's your couch, is there something better for him to jump on? Does he really want to jump, or was he doing that to irritate a sibling, to get in someone's way?
You need to do MANY things, as an unschooling mom, and this list and the sites associated with it can help you figure out how to do those things.
Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch.
Don't overcomplicate, don't oversimplify.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch.
Just as you seemed to be asking us to tell you what to say to your children, and how (living in words, asking for a YouTube video), now you've read something Joyce wrote, and then turned around and rephrased it to her in your own words, assuring us all that that's what she meant, that it's simple, and now you know that "all you have to do is..."
Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch.
There is more to it than being kind and coming from a place of feeling that. What you wrote is not bad at all. It's just not all you need to be a good unschooler.
-=-and the same with the principle of saftey, if he's jumping on the couch, I dont need to worry about what to say to him or whether to correct him or make him wrong or sorry or any other number of things that old school parenting would have us think we need to do, all I have to do is make sure he's safe with no judgement. -=-
It depends which couch. How important is that couch? Does it belong to you? He might be wrong.
Is the couch in a funeral home, during a viewing? Then he's wrong, it's not appropriate, it's not your couch, it's not okay for him to jump on it and no words will change that.
We are not recommending that you abandon all the things "old school parenting" had you thinking you need to do.
It's not another "all I have to do" situation.
Yes, make sure he's safe. Also help him learn how to be in the world. He's new here, and you're not. Give him a clue.
Assuming it's your couch, is there something better for him to jump on? Does he really want to jump, or was he doing that to irritate a sibling, to get in someone's way?
You need to do MANY things, as an unschooling mom, and this list and the sites associated with it can help you figure out how to do those things.
Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch.
Don't overcomplicate, don't oversimplify.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]