Lies vs. Confidence
JustSayin
Hello all - My 10 year old DS is a very intelligent, articulate, mature guy. Throughout his life, even when he was little, we have always included him in decisions, asked him his opinion, and even used his photographic memory when my or my DH's memory failed us.
For the past 6 months or so, my DS has taken to making statements that sound like they are absolute fact, but in reality are not investigated and in many cases are not true at all.
Yet if I point out that one of these statements may not be true, he gets quite defensive and tells me I am "judging" him.
I have tried just saying "hmm", or even "interesting" when I'm pretty sure a statement he has made is not true, but I have trouble with it personally, because I feel that honesty is really important. I've tried to explain that it hurts his credibility if he makes statements that are not true and someone finds that out. Even for me, I find it hard to believe anything he says any more, when I used to be able to rely on what he said without question.
So I guess the question is, how do I handle his "lies" - do I just ignore them and let things happen as they happen (this will be very hard for me, but I can do it). Is this just a 10 year old boy thing and he's trying to gain confidence by seeming to know everything about everything? Or have I set him up somehow because we always asked him his opinion/what he knows about things and maybe now he feels like he really does have to know everything?
None of the things he says are life and death subjects, mind you, but to me an untruth is an untruth no matter what it's about. It's not lying about what he's doing or where he's going, nothing like that at all. It's "the game needs a wireless controller" when it doesn't. Or "There were three rats outside", when there weren't. These are lame examples but I seem to be drawing a blank at the moment ;>
I don't want to damage our relationship by "calling" him on these things. Already I think I have a little, because he knows I don't always believe what he says any more.
Does anyone have any thoughts about how to deal with this?
--Melissa
For the past 6 months or so, my DS has taken to making statements that sound like they are absolute fact, but in reality are not investigated and in many cases are not true at all.
Yet if I point out that one of these statements may not be true, he gets quite defensive and tells me I am "judging" him.
I have tried just saying "hmm", or even "interesting" when I'm pretty sure a statement he has made is not true, but I have trouble with it personally, because I feel that honesty is really important. I've tried to explain that it hurts his credibility if he makes statements that are not true and someone finds that out. Even for me, I find it hard to believe anything he says any more, when I used to be able to rely on what he said without question.
So I guess the question is, how do I handle his "lies" - do I just ignore them and let things happen as they happen (this will be very hard for me, but I can do it). Is this just a 10 year old boy thing and he's trying to gain confidence by seeming to know everything about everything? Or have I set him up somehow because we always asked him his opinion/what he knows about things and maybe now he feels like he really does have to know everything?
None of the things he says are life and death subjects, mind you, but to me an untruth is an untruth no matter what it's about. It's not lying about what he's doing or where he's going, nothing like that at all. It's "the game needs a wireless controller" when it doesn't. Or "There were three rats outside", when there weren't. These are lame examples but I seem to be drawing a blank at the moment ;>
I don't want to damage our relationship by "calling" him on these things. Already I think I have a little, because he knows I don't always believe what he says any more.
Does anyone have any thoughts about how to deal with this?
--Melissa
Sandra Dodd
-=-I don't want to damage our relationship by "calling" him on these things. Already I think I have a little, because he knows I don't always believe what he says any more. -=-
You didn't damage the relationship by accepting him as he is. If you pretended he could create truth with his words, that would be damaging to *your* integrity.
If you pretended to believe there were three rats in the yard but he knew you didn't really, then you would be as dishonest as he was being.
When Marty was eight or nine he said things that weren't true. Minor, and casual. Some we let go by because it didn't matter. Depending on the situation or the mood or time available, or if it was just me or Marty, sometimes I would say something like "Do you mean you wish that's what had happened?" And if he insisted that it DID happen, I didn't argue with him. The seed was planted.
There were occasions when an example of someone else's truth or lies could be pointed out, and we would discuss it about someone else.
An analogy that might be useful, depending how your family is about humor and gross humor, is the idea of a gallon of lemonade with one turd in it. Is the lemonade better if the turd is small? People aren't going to want it no matter how small the turd is.
Another is percentages. If someone lies 20 percent of the time, is it worth believing him most of the time? That's a pretty high percentage. If a sport harmed 20 percent of people who participated, each time they played, it would be too dangerous. So what about 10%? 5%? If someone "only" lied 5% of the time, will a single statement be believed more reliably than someone who lies 30% of the time?
I told Marty to think before he told a story, and to tell it in such a way that someone else who had been there would agree to it. I told him I wanted to be able to defend him to others, and if I doubted his word, I wouldn't be able to do that.
I didn't say all those things at once, though. It was over the course of three or four months.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You didn't damage the relationship by accepting him as he is. If you pretended he could create truth with his words, that would be damaging to *your* integrity.
If you pretended to believe there were three rats in the yard but he knew you didn't really, then you would be as dishonest as he was being.
When Marty was eight or nine he said things that weren't true. Minor, and casual. Some we let go by because it didn't matter. Depending on the situation or the mood or time available, or if it was just me or Marty, sometimes I would say something like "Do you mean you wish that's what had happened?" And if he insisted that it DID happen, I didn't argue with him. The seed was planted.
There were occasions when an example of someone else's truth or lies could be pointed out, and we would discuss it about someone else.
An analogy that might be useful, depending how your family is about humor and gross humor, is the idea of a gallon of lemonade with one turd in it. Is the lemonade better if the turd is small? People aren't going to want it no matter how small the turd is.
Another is percentages. If someone lies 20 percent of the time, is it worth believing him most of the time? That's a pretty high percentage. If a sport harmed 20 percent of people who participated, each time they played, it would be too dangerous. So what about 10%? 5%? If someone "only" lied 5% of the time, will a single statement be believed more reliably than someone who lies 30% of the time?
I told Marty to think before he told a story, and to tell it in such a way that someone else who had been there would agree to it. I told him I wanted to be able to defend him to others, and if I doubted his word, I wouldn't be able to do that.
I didn't say all those things at once, though. It was over the course of three or four months.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
"JustSayin" <mfcappella@...> wrote:
Sometimes an "untruth" is wishful thinking, though, or a flight of fancy. That's not the same as a lie.
That sounds more like an expression of wishful thinking than a lie per se. He wants a different controller. Maybe he doesn't think "wanting" will be seen as strong enough reason to get what he wants, though, so he's stating what he wants in stronger terms, the way politicians and reporters spin something in stronger terms than may be necessary.
---Meredith
>> None of the things he says are life and death subjects, mind you, but to me an untruth is an untruth no matter what it's about.********************
Sometimes an "untruth" is wishful thinking, though, or a flight of fancy. That's not the same as a lie.
>>It's not lying about what he's doing or where he's going, nothing like that at all. It's "the game needs a wireless controller" when it doesn't.********************
That sounds more like an expression of wishful thinking than a lie per se. He wants a different controller. Maybe he doesn't think "wanting" will be seen as strong enough reason to get what he wants, though, so he's stating what he wants in stronger terms, the way politicians and reporters spin something in stronger terms than may be necessary.
>> Or "There were three rats outside", when there weren't.That sounds more like a flight of fancy - can you play along? Have fun with the idea? Turn it into a game instead of scolding him for a lack of adherence to strictly reliable data. Perhaps its just the examples you've given, but this sounds more like a problem of parents having drawn an arbitrary line between "real" and "not real" which doesn't include enough room for imaginative exploration.
---Meredith
JustSayin
>>When Marty was eight or nine he said things that weren't true. Minor, and casual. Some we let go by because it didn't matter. <<This is exactly what's happening, it's minor, is casual, but it's still a lie. I have also been letting some of them go because it really doesn't matter. And when it is really obvious that something he said is not true, I give him the questioning look (he knows the one).
It is nice to hear this: "If you pretended he could create truth with his words, that would be damaging to *your* integrity." because that's really how I feel. I can't just pretend. I think when he says I am judging him that gives me an opportunity to say why I am giving him "the look" (and I have used that opportunity and I'll continue to). I really like the turd/lemonade story, I think he would get that.
I got confused because he is just such a smart kid I didn't understand why he was doing this (he knows so much about so much it's really not necessary for him to fabricate facts about silly stuff).
It's good to hear he is not the only boy who has gone through something like this.
--Melissa
m_aduhene
My dd who is 10 and a half now went through a period of doing this a lot of the time when she was about 7/8. Not really to me but when she was with friends she would tell them stories which were half-truth or sometimes complete non-truth. I cannot think of any examples right now and I have just asked her and she can't even remember. I was never particularly concerned until an adult friend said it was worrying her and I ought to stop my daughter. I chatted with my husband because I am very sensitive about other's comments about my children and we decided it wasn't an issue. I explained to the other children she told the stories to that it was just something she did and sometimes the stroy may be true or not so true and that it was like her imagination. She did it for maybe half a year or so and now as I said she does not even remember.
blessings
michelle
blessings
michelle
--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> "JustSayin" <mfcappella@> wrote:
> >> None of the things he says are life and death subjects, mind you, but to me an untruth is an untruth no matter what it's about.
> ********************
>
> Sometimes an "untruth" is wishful thinking, though, or a flight of fancy. That's not the same as a lie.
>
> >>It's not lying about what he's doing or where he's going, nothing like that at all. It's "the game needs a wireless controller" when it doesn't.
> ********************
>
> That sounds more like an expression of wishful thinking than a lie per se. He wants a different controller. Maybe he doesn't think "wanting" will be seen as strong enough reason to get what he wants, though, so he's stating what he wants in stronger terms, the way politicians and reporters spin something in stronger terms than may be necessary.
>
> >> Or "There were three rats outside", when there weren't.
>
> That sounds more like a flight of fancy - can you play along? Have fun with the idea? Turn it into a game instead of scolding him for a lack of adherence to strictly reliable data. Perhaps its just the examples you've given, but this sounds more like a problem of parents having drawn an arbitrary line between "real" and "not real" which doesn't include enough room for imaginative exploration.
>
> ---Meredith
>
JustSayin
>> this sounds more like a problem of parents having drawn an arbitrary line between "real" and "not real" which doesn't include enough room for imaginative exploration. <<This is possible, I'm a realist, but I'm not THAT bad. I feel like at his age he knows what's real and what isn't. And I know I don't have a great imagination, but he does, and I really don't think he feels stunted or restricted in that way. But I'll dwell on that some more.
I do worry because when I was a kid/young adult - and I blame school for much of this - I felt like I was not allowed to be wrong about anything. I remember feeling deep humiliation whenever I was called on and got the answer wrong (just my perception, of course, but very real to me). So I wondered if I was passing on that yucky legacy to him.
I don't think so, though, it doesn't seem like he's afraid to be wrong, it actually seems more like he's showing off a little :>
--Melissa
--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
verde_mama
>My 8 yo daughter, Camille, is very imaginative. She often says things are "for real" when they aren't . As in, "I'm a vampire, for real", or, "my fairies said that I need to build them a house, for real." Her 4 yo sister, Sylvia, often believes her and occasionally gets stressed out about something that's "for real". So in that specific situation we've come up with "for real, in the game" or "for real, in fairyland". This allows Sylvia to know what's going on without them needing to be termed not-real. I think representing something as real is Camille's way of saying it's important to her.
> For the past 6 months or so, my DS has taken to making statements that sound like they are absolute fact, but in reality are not investigated and in many cases are not true at all.
>
Camille and I have been playing restaurant a lot lately, and we had a situation recently where Camille had told one of her very good friends that I make her pay me a penny for a drink of water and a quarter for food every time she's hungry. She said this was for real. Her good friend asked his mom for a hundred dollars later that night because he was genuinely concerned that Camille might not be able to eat otherwise. His mom explained to him that she had seen me bring and share plenty of food at parkday, so surely I feed my daughter freely. When I explained this misunderstanding to Camille she realized that she needs to be careful about how she presents her stories. I don't think she expected to be believed.
Is your son making things up to other people, or only to you? It sounds like he doesn't want to be called out on it, and it may not be necessary if it's not hurting anyone. It might just be his way of livening things up. Maybe it's more exciting to pretend that he saw 3 rats than not. Could you play along in the spirit of imagination without actually pretending you believe him "for real"? Maybe instead of thinking of it as truth vs. untruth, you could think of it as literal vs. imaginative ways of expression. There can be a place for both...
~Nikole