unschooling - ? - exactly *how* does it work ?!?!
nicolaphillips88
wondering - has anyone, any links - to prove that unschooling works ? 100% learning thro life - no teaching at all ? ? ? - how does a child learn to read if not taught ? ? with thanks in advance Nicola
dapsign
http://sandradodd.com/lists/alwayslearningNEW
http://sandradodd.com/johnholt
http://sandradodd.com/help
http://sandradodd.com/beginning
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/unschooling/unschoolingphilosophy.html
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/unschooling/howunschoolingworks.html
Dina
http://sandradodd.com/johnholt
http://sandradodd.com/help
http://sandradodd.com/beginning
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/unschooling/unschoolingphilosophy.html
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/unschooling/howunschoolingworks.html
Dina
--- In [email protected], "nicolaphillips88" <nicolaphillips88@...> wrote:
>
> wondering - has anyone, any links - to prove that unschooling works ? 100% learning thro life - no teaching at all ? ? ? - how does a child learn to read if not taught ? ? with thanks in advance Nicola
>
Robin Bentley
In addition to the excellent links for beginners that Dina sent, take
a look here:
http://sandradodd.com/reading
Lots of stories about reading, from many parents. "Joyce Fetterol
Refutes the Same Old Arguments" is at the bottom of that page. Good
stuff.
Robin B.
a look here:
http://sandradodd.com/reading
Lots of stories about reading, from many parents. "Joyce Fetterol
Refutes the Same Old Arguments" is at the bottom of that page. Good
stuff.
Robin B.
> wondering - has anyone, any links - to prove that unschooling
> works ? 100% learning thro life - no teaching at all ? ? ? - how
> does a child learn to read if not taught ? ? with thanks in advance
> Nicola
>
Jenny Cyphers
***how does a child learn to read if not taught ? ?***
Here's a link to someone that isn't an unschooler who has some thoughts on
reading. The title is a bit of a misnomer, but it does talk about kids that
have learned how to read without being taught.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201002/children-teach-themselves-read
***wondering - has anyone, any links - to prove that unschooling works ?***
Proof can mean all kinds of things. What kind of proof are you looking for?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Here's a link to someone that isn't an unschooler who has some thoughts on
reading. The title is a bit of a misnomer, but it does talk about kids that
have learned how to read without being taught.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201002/children-teach-themselves-read
***wondering - has anyone, any links - to prove that unschooling works ?***
Proof can mean all kinds of things. What kind of proof are you looking for?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
Has anyone proved, 100%, that school works? How does a child learn when they are
unhappy and in a crowd of people and just want to be somewhere else? School is
testing new methods, new curriculum all the time. They don't know what works,
have run almost no scientific studies to demonstrate the efficacy of their
methods, do no long term studies, except on a giant aggregate scale, to
demonstrate that what they are doing has lasting value. And schools themselves
don't trust that it works. Lots of universities have classes to get their just
enrolled students up to the standards they require for coursework. No matter
what A levels their students come in having attained.
How do you learn? How do you learn something you want to know about now? Do you
go enroll in a class everytime you want to learn something new? Do you seek out
someone to tell you not only how to learn something but what it is you need
to/should be learning?
I learn all the time. I learn by watching and listening, I learn by
experiencing, I learn by exploring. I learn by looking something up on-line or
by following an idea through a google search. I learn by playing with something,
by feeling something. The house I'm in now has this sloping floor that is so
marked the bed slants. I'm learning about construction in the 18th century in
rural Brittany. Lots of learning is cumulative. I know about lots of different
kinds of floors, kinds of home construction because I've lived and stayed in
lots of different buildings. Looked at different buildings, seen different
buildings in films and television shows and books.
I don't know how not to learn. I don't know how to turn off the thinking and
analysing part of my brain. The part that connects one idea with another and one
experience with another and to come up with something more than just what is in
front of me. Babies do it, toddlers do it, young children do it, teenagers do
it, young adults do it, middle aged folks (like me) do it, old folks do it.
Can't see it starting or stopping, don't know how to prove that it isn't going
on.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: nicolaphillips88 <nicolaphillips88@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, 13 June, 2011 0:30:49
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] unschooling - ? - exactly *how* does it work ?!?!
wondering - has anyone, any links - to prove that unschooling works ? 100%
learning thro life - no teaching at all ? ? ? - how does a child learn to read
if not taught ? ? with thanks in advance Nicola
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unhappy and in a crowd of people and just want to be somewhere else? School is
testing new methods, new curriculum all the time. They don't know what works,
have run almost no scientific studies to demonstrate the efficacy of their
methods, do no long term studies, except on a giant aggregate scale, to
demonstrate that what they are doing has lasting value. And schools themselves
don't trust that it works. Lots of universities have classes to get their just
enrolled students up to the standards they require for coursework. No matter
what A levels their students come in having attained.
How do you learn? How do you learn something you want to know about now? Do you
go enroll in a class everytime you want to learn something new? Do you seek out
someone to tell you not only how to learn something but what it is you need
to/should be learning?
I learn all the time. I learn by watching and listening, I learn by
experiencing, I learn by exploring. I learn by looking something up on-line or
by following an idea through a google search. I learn by playing with something,
by feeling something. The house I'm in now has this sloping floor that is so
marked the bed slants. I'm learning about construction in the 18th century in
rural Brittany. Lots of learning is cumulative. I know about lots of different
kinds of floors, kinds of home construction because I've lived and stayed in
lots of different buildings. Looked at different buildings, seen different
buildings in films and television shows and books.
I don't know how not to learn. I don't know how to turn off the thinking and
analysing part of my brain. The part that connects one idea with another and one
experience with another and to come up with something more than just what is in
front of me. Babies do it, toddlers do it, young children do it, teenagers do
it, young adults do it, middle aged folks (like me) do it, old folks do it.
Can't see it starting or stopping, don't know how to prove that it isn't going
on.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: nicolaphillips88 <nicolaphillips88@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, 13 June, 2011 0:30:49
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] unschooling - ? - exactly *how* does it work ?!?!
wondering - has anyone, any links - to prove that unschooling works ? 100%
learning thro life - no teaching at all ? ? ? - how does a child learn to read
if not taught ? ? with thanks in advance Nicola
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
Oh, I meant to add, I was at a talk this Saturday, presented by Alan Thomas and
Harriet Pattison (http://www.lttl.org.uk/harrietandalan.html) that talked about
how children learn to read. And how, in an environment without pressure, without
failure versus success, it seems to be inevitable that children will learn to
read. They have a book: http://www.howchildrenlearnathome.co.uk/, that I haven't
read, but am planning on getting when we get back to the UK.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Harriet Pattison (http://www.lttl.org.uk/harrietandalan.html) that talked about
how children learn to read. And how, in an environment without pressure, without
failure versus success, it seems to be inevitable that children will learn to
read. They have a book: http://www.howchildrenlearnathome.co.uk/, that I haven't
read, but am planning on getting when we get back to the UK.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 12, 2011, at 7:30 PM, nicolaphillips88 wrote:
It seems an odd question but if someone doesn't have a clear idea of
where they want to go, it's hard to get there!
The trains into Boston work great. If someone lives close to a train.
If someone wants to go to Boston.
without schools?
We developed as a people by pulling understanding from the world.
That's how we're designed to learn.
We don't learn well by memorizing other people's understanding of the
world. It can be done after a fashion, but it goes against our natural
way of learning.
*That's* why people believe learning is hard and needs experts to
impose it on kids. Learning is easy. Learning is natural. We pull
understanding from the world by playing, trying things out to see what
happens, assessing what happened, trying other things based on what we
learned. That's how all creatures learn.
Absorbing someone else's learning on a someone else's schedule is hard.
Poetry in school is memorizing and pulling apart other people's poems
that you probably don't like. Real poetry is the desire to capture a
moment, a feeling and put it into words.
Speaking is far more difficult to learn. Kids are born not even
knowing what language is and yet with in a few years they've mastered
the heart of it and everything after that is enhancements. And yet
they do it seemingly effortlessly by being immersed in an enivironment
where it's used and finding it a useful tool to get what they need.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> prove that unschooling works ?What do you mean by "works"?
It seems an odd question but if someone doesn't have a clear idea of
where they want to go, it's hard to get there!
The trains into Boston work great. If someone lives close to a train.
If someone wants to go to Boston.
> 100% learning thro life - no teaching at all ? ? ?What did people do before schools? How did civilization even arise
without schools?
We developed as a people by pulling understanding from the world.
That's how we're designed to learn.
We don't learn well by memorizing other people's understanding of the
world. It can be done after a fashion, but it goes against our natural
way of learning.
*That's* why people believe learning is hard and needs experts to
impose it on kids. Learning is easy. Learning is natural. We pull
understanding from the world by playing, trying things out to see what
happens, assessing what happened, trying other things based on what we
learned. That's how all creatures learn.
Absorbing someone else's learning on a someone else's schedule is hard.
Poetry in school is memorizing and pulling apart other people's poems
that you probably don't like. Real poetry is the desire to capture a
moment, a feeling and put it into words.
> how does a child learn to read if not taught ? ?How did kids learn to speak without being taught?
Speaking is far more difficult to learn. Kids are born not even
knowing what language is and yet with in a few years they've mastered
the heart of it and everything after that is enhancements. And yet
they do it seemingly effortlessly by being immersed in an enivironment
where it's used and finding it a useful tool to get what they need.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Schuyler wrote:
-=-Has anyone proved, 100%, that school works? How does a child learn when they are
unhappy and in a crowd of people and just want to be somewhere else? School is
testing new methods, new curriculum all the time. They don't know what works,
have run almost no scientific studies to demonstrate the efficacy of their
methods, do no long term studies, except on a giant aggregate scale, to
demonstrate that what they are doing has lasting value. And schools themselves
don't trust that it works. Lots of universities have classes to get their just
enrolled students up to the standards they require for coursework. No matter
what A levels their students come in having attained. -=-
Schools have slag, and waste, too. To make one valedictorian, dozens or hundreds or thousands of kids in that same graduating class are not the valedictorian. And some percentage of those who might have been graduating have dropped out before graduation. And some who are graduating have barely graduated and might feel not-very-smart for the rest of their lives.
Schuyler was writing about people who go on to university.
MANY who graduate don't even think about university because by the time they squeak through graduation they had school and everything that looks like school.
When I said "slag and waste" above, I meant human waste. Every school knows that a fairly big percentage of their kids will fail. WILL fail. Not "might fail." School is set up to sort the best from the worst. Being "best" is worthless without some having been measured "worst." And those kids are whole humans with parents who love them. And they fail. Because of school.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-Has anyone proved, 100%, that school works? How does a child learn when they are
unhappy and in a crowd of people and just want to be somewhere else? School is
testing new methods, new curriculum all the time. They don't know what works,
have run almost no scientific studies to demonstrate the efficacy of their
methods, do no long term studies, except on a giant aggregate scale, to
demonstrate that what they are doing has lasting value. And schools themselves
don't trust that it works. Lots of universities have classes to get their just
enrolled students up to the standards they require for coursework. No matter
what A levels their students come in having attained. -=-
Schools have slag, and waste, too. To make one valedictorian, dozens or hundreds or thousands of kids in that same graduating class are not the valedictorian. And some percentage of those who might have been graduating have dropped out before graduation. And some who are graduating have barely graduated and might feel not-very-smart for the rest of their lives.
Schuyler was writing about people who go on to university.
MANY who graduate don't even think about university because by the time they squeak through graduation they had school and everything that looks like school.
When I said "slag and waste" above, I meant human waste. Every school knows that a fairly big percentage of their kids will fail. WILL fail. Not "might fail." School is set up to sort the best from the worst. Being "best" is worthless without some having been measured "worst." And those kids are whole humans with parents who love them. And they fail. Because of school.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
How did kids learn to speak without being taught?
Stephanie Kleiner
>--- How do babies learn to sit up, crawl, walk, talk, feed themselves..etc. No on "teaches" them. They just learn to as needed. I have often wondered at what point we shift our thinking to the point of now we have to "teach" them things.
> Speaking is far more difficult to learn. Kids are born not even
> knowing what language is and yet with in a few years they've mastered the heart of it and everything after that is enhancements. And yet they do it seemingly effortlessly by being immersed in an environment where it's used and finding it a useful tool to get what they need.
Stephanie Kleiner
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Jun 12, 2011, at 7:30 PM, nicolaphillips88 wrote:
>
> > prove that unschooling works ?
>
> What do you mean by "works"?
>
> It seems an odd question but if someone doesn't have a clear idea of
> where they want to go, it's hard to get there!
>
> The trains into Boston work great. If someone lives close to a train.
> If someone wants to go to Boston.
>
> > 100% learning thro life - no teaching at all ? ? ?
>
> What did people do before schools? How did civilization even arise
> without schools?
>
> We developed as a people by pulling understanding from the world.
> That's how we're designed to learn.
>
> We don't learn well by memorizing other people's understanding of the
> world. It can be done after a fashion, but it goes against our natural
> way of learning.
>
> *That's* why people believe learning is hard and needs experts to
> impose it on kids. Learning is easy. Learning is natural. We pull
> understanding from the world by playing, trying things out to see what
> happens, assessing what happened, trying other things based on what we
> learned. That's how all creatures learn.
>
> Absorbing someone else's learning on a someone else's schedule is hard.
>
> Poetry in school is memorizing and pulling apart other people's poems
> that you probably don't like. Real poetry is the desire to capture a
> moment, a feeling and put it into words.
>
> > how does a child learn to read if not taught ? ?
>
> How did kids learn to speak without being taught?
>
> Speaking is far more difficult to learn. Kids are born not even
> knowing what language is and yet with in a few years they've mastered
> the heart of it and everything after that is enhancements. And yet
> they do it seemingly effortlessly by being immersed in an enivironment
> where it's used and finding it a useful tool to get what they need.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
plaidpanties666
A couple more mainstream books, specifically about kids learning to read without being taught in modern "open classroom" environments:
Literacy Through Play by Gretchen Owocki
Much More Than the ABC's: The Early Stages of Reading and Writing
by Judith Schickendanz
---Meredith
Literacy Through Play by Gretchen Owocki
Much More Than the ABC's: The Early Stages of Reading and Writing
by Judith Schickendanz
---Meredith
nicolaphillips88
Thankyou All, this will keep me quiet for a while ! - i am, going to be unschooling / am unscholing my 4yr old - as i know it works - its just 'others' when they question me! - thanks all for all your feed back and links :-) thats my eve's reading - thankyou all V much . x
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> Schuyler wrote:
> -=-Has anyone proved, 100%, that school works? How does a child learn when they are
> unhappy and in a crowd of people and just want to be somewhere else? School is
> testing new methods, new curriculum all the time. They don't know what works,
> have run almost no scientific studies to demonstrate the efficacy of their
> methods, do no long term studies, except on a giant aggregate scale, to
> demonstrate that what they are doing has lasting value. And schools themselves
> don't trust that it works. Lots of universities have classes to get their just
> enrolled students up to the standards they require for coursework. No matter
> what A levels their students come in having attained. -=-
>
> Schools have slag, and waste, too. To make one valedictorian, dozens or hundreds or thousands of kids in that same graduating class are not the valedictorian. And some percentage of those who might have been graduating have dropped out before graduation. And some who are graduating have barely graduated and might feel not-very-smart for the rest of their lives.
>
> Schuyler was writing about people who go on to university.
> MANY who graduate don't even think about university because by the time they squeak through graduation they had school and everything that looks like school.
>
> When I said "slag and waste" above, I meant human waste. Every school knows that a fairly big percentage of their kids will fail. WILL fail. Not "might fail." School is set up to sort the best from the worst. Being "best" is worthless without some having been measured "worst." And those kids are whole humans with parents who love them. And they fail. Because of school.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
augustbug2002
**How did kids learn to speak without being taught?** That's a good question.
My husband and I are Deaf. I have a hearing and a Deaf son. The first son was never being taught to learn to speak...we use AMerican Sign Language. He uses it for about 2 years then start to speak well. He doesn't have a speech therapist which isn't really necessary. He hears many words from my family and friends. Of course, lots of people kept asking me how can we communicate to each other if he is hearing? It did annoys me and I just let them to see us, and now it's 4 years. People are so amazing how he can signs and speaks without being taught. Thought I'd share. :)
-Tara
My husband and I are Deaf. I have a hearing and a Deaf son. The first son was never being taught to learn to speak...we use AMerican Sign Language. He uses it for about 2 years then start to speak well. He doesn't have a speech therapist which isn't really necessary. He hears many words from my family and friends. Of course, lots of people kept asking me how can we communicate to each other if he is hearing? It did annoys me and I just let them to see us, and now it's 4 years. People are so amazing how he can signs and speaks without being taught. Thought I'd share. :)
-Tara
--- In [email protected], "ssminnow1@..." <ssminnow1@...> wrote:
>
> How did kids learn to speak without being taught?
> >
> > Speaking is far more difficult to learn. Kids are born not even
> > knowing what language is and yet with in a few years they've mastered the heart of it and everything after that is enhancements. And yet they do it seemingly effortlessly by being immersed in an environment where it's used and finding it a useful tool to get what they need.
>
> --- How do babies learn to sit up, crawl, walk, talk, feed themselves..etc. No on "teaches" them. They just learn to as needed. I have often wondered at what point we shift our thinking to the point of now we have to "teach" them things.
>
> Stephanie Kleiner
>
> --- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Jun 12, 2011, at 7:30 PM, nicolaphillips88 wrote:
> >
> > > prove that unschooling works ?
> >
> > What do you mean by "works"?
> >
> > It seems an odd question but if someone doesn't have a clear idea of
> > where they want to go, it's hard to get there!
> >
> > The trains into Boston work great. If someone lives close to a train.
> > If someone wants to go to Boston.
> >
> > > 100% learning thro life - no teaching at all ? ? ?
> >
> > What did people do before schools? How did civilization even arise
> > without schools?
> >
> > We developed as a people by pulling understanding from the world.
> > That's how we're designed to learn.
> >
> > We don't learn well by memorizing other people's understanding of the
> > world. It can be done after a fashion, but it goes against our natural
> > way of learning.
> >
> > *That's* why people believe learning is hard and needs experts to
> > impose it on kids. Learning is easy. Learning is natural. We pull
> > understanding from the world by playing, trying things out to see what
> > happens, assessing what happened, trying other things based on what we
> > learned. That's how all creatures learn.
> >
> > Absorbing someone else's learning on a someone else's schedule is hard.
> >
> > Poetry in school is memorizing and pulling apart other people's poems
> > that you probably don't like. Real poetry is the desire to capture a
> > moment, a feeling and put it into words.
> >
> > > how does a child learn to read if not taught ? ?
> >
> > How did kids learn to speak without being taught?
> >
> > Speaking is far more difficult to learn. Kids are born not even
> > knowing what language is and yet with in a few years they've mastered
> > the heart of it and everything after that is enhancements. And yet
> > they do it seemingly effortlessly by being immersed in an enivironment
> > where it's used and finding it a useful tool to get what they need.
> >
> > Joyce
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-**How did kids learn to speak without being taught?** That's a good question.
-=-My husband and I are Deaf. I have a hearing and a Deaf son. The first son was never being taught to learn to speak...we use AMerican Sign Language. He uses it for about 2 years then start to speak well. He doesn't have a speech therapist which isn't really necessary. He hears many words from my family and friends. Of course, lots of people kept asking me how can we communicate to each other if he is hearing? It did annoys me and I just let them to see us, and now it's 4 years. People are so amazing how he can signs and speaks without being taught. Thought I'd share. :) -=-
Very cool.
Did he watch TV or movies and maybe learn words (accents, intonation) there, too?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-My husband and I are Deaf. I have a hearing and a Deaf son. The first son was never being taught to learn to speak...we use AMerican Sign Language. He uses it for about 2 years then start to speak well. He doesn't have a speech therapist which isn't really necessary. He hears many words from my family and friends. Of course, lots of people kept asking me how can we communicate to each other if he is hearing? It did annoys me and I just let them to see us, and now it's 4 years. People are so amazing how he can signs and speaks without being taught. Thought I'd share. :) -=-
Very cool.
Did he watch TV or movies and maybe learn words (accents, intonation) there, too?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***Did he watch TV or movies and maybe learn words (accents, intonation) there,
too?***
And.. if he did learn some from TV and movies, did you guys watch together with
the subtitles on? I'm curious about that! That can help kids learn to read
too!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
too?***
And.. if he did learn some from TV and movies, did you guys watch together with
the subtitles on? I'm curious about that! That can help kids learn to read
too!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa Dietrick
I saw this video last night: sugata mitra, educator and researcher seems to
be proving unschooling works...I really enjoyed listening to his speech...
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/sugata_mitra_shows_how_kids_teach_themselves.html
this is his page of other speeches, but I havent seen them yet
http://www.ted.com/search?q=sugata+mitra
xxmelissa
still trying to unschool
in italy
--
lucia 24yr, lidia 20.5yr, matteo 17.25yr, raffaele 13.5yr,
elena shanti 11yr, giacomo leo 8yr and gioele 5.75y
"There is a Place beyond Rightness and Wrongness -- let us meet There."
§Rumi
http://apprendimentonaturale.blogspot.com/
www.nontogliermiilsorriso.org
http://www.indianbambooflute.blogspot.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
be proving unschooling works...I really enjoyed listening to his speech...
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/sugata_mitra_shows_how_kids_teach_themselves.html
this is his page of other speeches, but I havent seen them yet
http://www.ted.com/search?q=sugata+mitra
xxmelissa
still trying to unschool
in italy
--
lucia 24yr, lidia 20.5yr, matteo 17.25yr, raffaele 13.5yr,
elena shanti 11yr, giacomo leo 8yr and gioele 5.75y
"There is a Place beyond Rightness and Wrongness -- let us meet There."
§Rumi
http://apprendimentonaturale.blogspot.com/
www.nontogliermiilsorriso.org
http://www.indianbambooflute.blogspot.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]