joanne.lopers

I am still conflicted on the topic of swearing with young children.
I just reread some previous posts on the topic, and they make sense but it seems to be one of those things that I have issues with so maybe I need some direct input. My 8 year old has been experimenting with swearing since he was 3 at grandmas and said "Sh--" and then
"F---". (My husband swears, he stopped for a while and so did my son.) I was not sure how to handle that with them or him. He has sworn at park days though to my knowledge stopped when I told him that it is not very appropriate if you are not around others that swear. They will say things like "Hey, Hell is in Hello" and "Oh, are we reading "Little Bitches" again. I am thinking it would be more useful to be glad they are experimenting with words. My middle son will sometimes shout obcentities at his brother when he gets mad. I guess the spirit of some swearing gets to me. It can sound very vulger to my ears. Also, my oldest flipped off my sister the day after seeing Mrs. Doubtfire, there is a scene where Robin Williams flips someone off who he was mad at. My sister had been less than nice with him a few minutes before so I understood it. We discussed that it is not really a nice thing to do even if someone has made you mad. Wondering how others have talked about swearing (or flipping off) in their house. I am pretty sure my issue is that I just don't like it and don't want it to become part of our daily language as well as the concern of what others will think.

Sandra Dodd

-=- My middle son will sometimes shout obcentities at his brother when he gets mad. I guess the spirit of some swearing gets to me. It can sound very vulger to my ears. -=-

It's hostility and it's hateful, and that's reason enough to ask him to stop.

I held that each of my children had the right to be safe in his own home. Safe physically and emotionally.

For anyone who uses "bad language," there's a time and a place. For some people there is no time, and no place. But for NOone is every time and place equally acceptable.

An analogy you might use to explain it to them is that people act differently at funerals and at weddings. And there's another way to act at a raucous sports event.

A kind of joke we had here was that they could do [whatever] when they were 18 and were paying their own rent. One deal was that Holly could hit Marty when she was 18. She used to say, when she got mad, "I can't wait until my 18th birthday, Marty!" and sometimes he would do something obnoxious and then dodge away and say "I'm not coming to your 18th birthday party."

She's 19 now and still hasn't hit him yet.

Sandra

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joanne.lopers

I have definately asked him to stop. Going down a different road here, any suggestions to help kids stop behaviour that seems to overtake them? I am not having a ton of success with helping them redirect behavior in certain situations, especially lately. When the middle son 7, sees something as unfair from the oldest 9, he may lash out either physically or verbally. I have tried offering suggestions or having them come up with their own alternatives to hitting or swearing but they seem to get for gotten in the moment. Maybe I should reread your 'breath' article. Should I just get in there and gently but physically remove one of them from the room? I don't believe I've ever lead them to believe that hitting is okay and we discuss it but lately they seem to be getting into it more. I have been pondering and discussing it with the boys (with some success at diverting fights) and there are certain areas that are triggers; situations were the older tries to control the play or activity of the middle, the oldest is not a great sport and won't be out when he is out and is often in denial of wrong doing (said he did not see the scene of RW flipping someone off in Mrs. Doubtfire). It is frustrating for the middle son. I have talked to the middle about the olders behavior and have let him know that I see what he is doing but haven't yet figured out how to help him not be like that.
What did Holly do instead of hit her brother when she got mad?


--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=- My middle son will sometimes shout obcentities at his brother when he gets mad. I guess the spirit of some swearing gets to me. It can sound very vulger to my ears. -=-
>
> It's hostility and it's hateful, and that's reason enough to ask him to stop.
>
> I held that each of my children had the right to be safe in his own home. Safe physically and emotionally.
>
> For anyone who uses "bad language," there's a time and a place. For some people there is no time, and no place. But for NOone is every time and place equally acceptable.
>
> An analogy you might use to explain it to them is that people act differently at funerals and at weddings. And there's another way to act at a raucous sports event.
>
> A kind of joke we had here was that they could do [whatever] when they were 18 and were paying their own rent. One deal was that Holly could hit Marty when she was 18. She used to say, when she got mad, "I can't wait until my 18th birthday, Marty!" and sometimes he would do something obnoxious and then dodge away and say "I'm not coming to your 18th birthday party."
>
> She's 19 now and still hasn't hit him yet.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

plaidpanties666

"joanne.lopers" <wilmalv@...> wrote:
>I am pretty sure my issue is that I just don't like it and don't want it to become part of our daily language as well as the concern of what others will think.
*******************

I'm inclined to think part of the issue is that you're thinking "talking to your kids" is going to somehow solve the problem. It's not uncommon for kids to experiment with swearing etc, or to play potty-mouth games with friends and siblings. The main difference is that when kids are punished for it they do it a little less in front of parents. Sometimes that will mean they do it More behind parents' backs, too.

By all means go on letting them know when it is and isn't appropriate to cuss or flip someone the bird, but be aware that being their partner means they're going to trust you to give them that feedback - which means they'll try things out in front of you.

>>My middle son will sometimes shout obcentities at his brother when he gets mad.
***************

How does his brother feel about that? If his feelings are hurt, then its important to step in, separate them maybe, talk to them in private to give them a chance to cool down and come up with some better tactics for next time. But the brother - you didn't say older or younger, just middle - might be fine with the swearing part and then it isn't such a big deal.

>> I have tried
offering suggestions or having them come up with their own alternatives to
hitting or swearing but they seem to get for gotten in the moment. *******************

Then it would be a good idea to intervene more and sooner. Give the kid who's mad a chance to cool off and the kid who's feeling attacked a chance to escape (and sometimes they may both feel both ways!) so they can think again. Over time, getting away can become a valuable strategy for some people! Ray will often walk away from situations that are getting too "hot" - now, I mean, at 17, but at 9 he could still blow up pretty quickly if he was feeling like an underdog. Giving him a chance to get away and cool down helped a lot.

How to do that is going to depend a lot on the situation. Sometimes it can be enough for a parent to step in the middle of an altercation with a firm "Stop!" and then shoo the kids away from each other or take one in another room with you.

---Meredith

aldq75

When I step in between my younger girls (ages 7.5 and 6), I often offer to join in the play or offer to play/do something different with one or both of them. Sometimes, we break for a snack. After they've cooled off, we try to figure out what happened.

Andrea Q

--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...>


> How to do that is going to depend a lot on the situation. Sometimes it can be enough for a parent to step in the middle of an altercation with a firm "Stop!" and then shoo the kids away from each other or take one in another room with you.
>
> ---Meredith
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-Should I just get in there and gently but physically remove one of them from the room? I don't believe I've ever lead them to believe that hitting is okay-=-

If you have ever failed to gently but physically remove one of them from the presence of the other, you have led them to believe that hitting is okay.

Not "gently but physically," necessarily. Maybe suddenly and loudly and verbally. Remaining calm when someone is being hurt isn't a virtue. It makes it seem as though the agression isn't worth getting upset about, doesn't it?

-=-What did Holly do instead of hit her brother when she got mad? -=-
One or two of these:
Talk to me.
Leave the room.
Object to the behavior.
Yell "Stop."
Say "When I'm 18 I'm gonna HIT you" (if it was Marty, maybe).

-=-. I have talked to the middle about the olders behavior and have let him know that I see what he is doing but haven't yet figured out how to help him not be like that. -=-

Here's what I did, lots of times, with my two boys:
http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting

Sandra

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Sandra Dodd

-=-How does his brother feel about that? If his feelings are hurt, then its important to step in, separate them maybe, talk to them in private to give them a chance to cool down and come up with some better tactics for next time. But the brother - you didn't say older or younger, just middle - might be fine with the swearing part and then it isn't such a big deal. -=-

I disagree. Many a younger brother will say "that's okay" about various forms of abuse, to avoid further abuse when the parents aren't there.

If a battered wife is fine with the occasional violence and it isn't such a big deal to her, it's still considered wrong, bad and a crime.

Even in cussing someone out, there is a range. If they're playing halo and one just got shot and calls the other an asshole, that's kind of part of the game. There are other times and ways and circumstances when it would be an attempt to wound deeply, and that's not cool.

Sandra

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otherstar

From: Sandra Dodd
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 2:57 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: My sensitivity to swearing



-=-How does his brother feel about that? If his feelings are hurt, then its important to step in, separate them maybe, talk to them in private to give them a chance to cool down and come up with some better tactics for next time. But the brother - you didn't say older or younger, just middle - might be fine with the swearing part and then it isn't such a big deal. -=-

I disagree. Many a younger brother will say "that's okay" about various forms of abuse, to avoid further abuse when the parents aren't there.
**********************

As the youngest of four, I know first hand that it is way easier for a sibling to say that it is okay to be abused (physically or verbally) than it is to speak up. When I was a kid, I knew that it was always best to keep my mouth shut if my siblings did something I didn't like. If I spoke up, I knew that I would pay one way or another. One of my sisters would tell mom when the rest of us did mean stuff (even if she was part of it). That sister received lots of abuse from the oldest ones. It would have been nice if somebody had spoken up for us so that we didn't have to worry about silently suffering or getting paid back. Without a vigilant parent that will stand up on the behalf of all of the children, it is no longer safe environment.

If one of my younger ones does something to my oldest, my oldest will sometimes say, "That's okay mom" and I will say, "No it isn't." I don't want any of my children to ever think that abusing another human being is okay. Sometimes I use strong words to convey that message. I will physically intervene if necessary because I will not tolerate my children purposely hurting each other or anyone else.

Connie










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Joyce Fetteroll

On Apr 23, 2011, at 11:10 AM, joanne.lopers wrote:

> Going down a different road here, any suggestions to help kids stop
> behaviour that seems to overtake them?

I think you're looking for a magic formula to cast the change you want
on them. They will do better when they can. If you want them to do
better now, you need to be the one doing it. Be more present to change
directions when things head down hill. Help them with better ways
until they can do it themselves. Coach them. But the peace is your
responsibility not theirs. If they could be more peaceful it sure
would make your job a lot easier! But it's not up to them. It's up to
you. Just as it was up to you to transport them until they could walk
on their own. It would have been easier if you didn't have to carry
them, but you did until you didn't need to. Same with this.

I think Sandra did this but I have a quote from Ren Allen:

http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/influencing%20kid%20behavior/siblingsfighting.html

> We have a standing protocol here. If you have a conflict you use
> your WORDS with the other person and tell them to STOP. If that does
> not work, you go find an advocate (parent or older sib) to assist
> you in dealing with the conflict. If none of the above works, THEN
> you can hit. Well, we never get to the third phase, because the
> advocate always works. :) I coach them a lot as to "you could try
> this next time" or "use words" or "talk calmly when you're telling
> her" etc...


That didn't fix them but it was something to walk through when kids
chose not so great solutions to help them see where the kids' seeking-
of-a-better-solution broke down.

It will help to see that they have needs they want to meet. They don't
want to hurt others, but the needs loom large and they're still in the
crawling stage of getting to those needs in ways that aren't direct.
No matter how much you want them to walk, no matter how much you
explain the process of walking, you can't get them to walk until
they're able.

Joyce

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Sandra Dodd

-=-I think Sandra did this but I have a quote from Ren Allen:-=-

Right. She got that from me. :-)

It was my way to deal with hitting. If they didn't follow the procedure, they couldn't hit. (The assumption was that if they did follow the procedure, they might get to the point that hitting was acceptable.)

First, talk about it.
Second, get a grownup's help.
Third, hit.

So if Marty said "Kirby hit me," I didn't have to harangue Kirby about why hitting is bad, or make him apologize, or any of the regular things people do. I just said "Did you talk to him first? Did you tell him what you were mad about?"

If the answer was no, I just said, "Next time, talk to him."

If the answer was yes, I would say "Then you should've asked me to help." Or, "Did you get a grownup's help?"

And those questions weren't asked in a sing-songy or entrapping way, at all. Honestly asking. And eventually they could checklist themselves.

Sandra

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