refusal
Lisa
My son, Joe, is 8. I walk our dog every day. I think it is very important for the dog and I both to get a walk. I would LOVE for my son to get a walk outside every day too.
Joe doesn't want to go because he finds it a little bit boring and he would rather stay home and play minecraft.
Some days I can't give the dog a walk unless my son comes with me (if my husband is gone all day). The older my son gets, the more he says he doesn't want to go. Today he flat out refused and I'm mad about it.
This means none of us get a walk unless I force Joe to go or I wait till 10:30 at night to do it (when my husband gets home).
In my mind (and I don't know for sure if this is true) the majority of the people on this list would say that if I had to make a choice between forcing my son to walk the dog or something else, I should choose the something else.
Is that true? In order to be an effective unschooling parent can you never pull rank and force?
If there are other ways to feel about this can you help me see them?
The way I currently feel is I am mad. I am mad that I bust my butt all day every day to get Joe what he wants and he won't take 40 minutes and walk the dog happily with me.
This is the ONLY thing I will ask him to do today. Other than this, he eats what he wants, watches what he wants, and does what he wants.
thanks, Lisa
Joe doesn't want to go because he finds it a little bit boring and he would rather stay home and play minecraft.
Some days I can't give the dog a walk unless my son comes with me (if my husband is gone all day). The older my son gets, the more he says he doesn't want to go. Today he flat out refused and I'm mad about it.
This means none of us get a walk unless I force Joe to go or I wait till 10:30 at night to do it (when my husband gets home).
In my mind (and I don't know for sure if this is true) the majority of the people on this list would say that if I had to make a choice between forcing my son to walk the dog or something else, I should choose the something else.
Is that true? In order to be an effective unschooling parent can you never pull rank and force?
If there are other ways to feel about this can you help me see them?
The way I currently feel is I am mad. I am mad that I bust my butt all day every day to get Joe what he wants and he won't take 40 minutes and walk the dog happily with me.
This is the ONLY thing I will ask him to do today. Other than this, he eats what he wants, watches what he wants, and does what he wants.
thanks, Lisa
lylaw
In my mind (and I don't know for sure if this is true) the majority of the people on this list would say that if I had to make a choice between forcing my son to walk the dog or something else, I should choose the something else.
Is that true? In order to be an effective unschooling parent can you never pull rank and force? >>>>
==============
it’s not an either/or choice. what would happen if you “forced” him? would he end up relaxed and joyful, or whine and complain the whole way? how does he respond to force? one time? many times? would the issue of walking become more of a big deal every day he was forced? less desirable?
now think of other options. can he bike next to you? skate? bring a nerf gun? a butterfly net? a handheld microscope? can he stay home alone for a short time, playing minecraft while you walk? can you walk for a shorter amount of time than usual, perhaps several times a day? just around the block, over and over, so you can check on your son every few minutes?
can you bring a cell phone, a walkie talkie?
what about would a different time of day be more appealing to him for a walk? could you and he take the dog to a dog park? can he learn to train the dog?
those are just a sprinkling of ideas, to get the ball rolling, and to illustrate that it’s almost never just a matter of “force or don’t force” – there are many more gentle, create choices in between.
lyla
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Is that true? In order to be an effective unschooling parent can you never pull rank and force? >>>>
==============
it’s not an either/or choice. what would happen if you “forced” him? would he end up relaxed and joyful, or whine and complain the whole way? how does he respond to force? one time? many times? would the issue of walking become more of a big deal every day he was forced? less desirable?
now think of other options. can he bike next to you? skate? bring a nerf gun? a butterfly net? a handheld microscope? can he stay home alone for a short time, playing minecraft while you walk? can you walk for a shorter amount of time than usual, perhaps several times a day? just around the block, over and over, so you can check on your son every few minutes?
can you bring a cell phone, a walkie talkie?
what about would a different time of day be more appealing to him for a walk? could you and he take the dog to a dog park? can he learn to train the dog?
those are just a sprinkling of ideas, to get the ball rolling, and to illustrate that it’s almost never just a matter of “force or don’t force” – there are many more gentle, create choices in between.
lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lylaw
The way I currently feel is I am mad. I am mad that I bust my butt all day every day to get Joe what he wants and he won't take 40 minutes and walk the dog happily with me.
This is the ONLY thing I will ask him to do today. Other than this, he eats what he wants, watches what he wants, and does what he wants.
======================
also, if you are mad, and feeling resentful, you probably (maybe?) haven’t had a tone with him that’s conducive to problem solving, and partnership. how have you talked to him about your wishes and opened the door for creative problem solving?
lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is the ONLY thing I will ask him to do today. Other than this, he eats what he wants, watches what he wants, and does what he wants.
======================
also, if you are mad, and feeling resentful, you probably (maybe?) haven’t had a tone with him that’s conducive to problem solving, and partnership. how have you talked to him about your wishes and opened the door for creative problem solving?
lyla
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Tina Tarbutton
To add to the list. Is there a store within walking distance that has
something your son would enjoy? Draven loves to walk with me if we go to
the local gas station and get a slurpee half way through the walk. He
enjoys the walk, I enjoy the walk, no forcing involved. He wouldn't enjoy
just walking around the block though.
Tina
something your son would enjoy? Draven loves to walk with me if we go to
the local gas station and get a slurpee half way through the walk. He
enjoys the walk, I enjoy the walk, no forcing involved. He wouldn't enjoy
just walking around the block though.
Tina
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 8:56 PM, lylaw <lylaw@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> In my mind (and I don't know for sure if this is true) the majority of the
> people on this list would say that if I had to make a choice between forcing
> my son to walk the dog or something else, I should choose the something
> else.
>
> Is that true? In order to be an effective unschooling parent can you never
> pull rank and force? >>>>
> ==============
> it�s not an either/or choice. what would happen if you �forced� him? would
> he end up relaxed and joyful, or whine and complain the whole way? how does
> he respond to force? one time? many times? would the issue of walking become
> more of a big deal every day he was forced? less desirable?
> now think of other options. can he bike next to you? skate? bring a nerf
> gun? a butterfly net? a handheld microscope? can he stay home alone for a
> short time, playing minecraft while you walk? can you walk for a shorter
> amount of time than usual, perhaps several times a day? just around the
> block, over and over, so you can check on your son every few minutes?
> can you bring a cell phone, a walkie talkie?
> what about would a different time of day be more appealing to him for a
> walk? could you and he take the dog to a dog park? can he learn to train the
> dog?
> those are just a sprinkling of ideas, to get the ball rolling, and to
> illustrate that it�s almost never just a matter of �force or don�t force� �
> there are many more gentle, create choices in between.
> lyla
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
--
Unschooling Untitled <http://www.unschoolinguntitled.com> (
http://www.unschoolinguntitled.com )
Living an unschooled lifestyle, one experience at a time!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa
yes, of course he could ride his bike or his scooter or bring any one of the thousands of toys he has. Of course I do whatever I can to make it more fun for him.
And I do the walk around the block 2 dozen times while he stays home with the cell phone. I do that a lot. I don't like it. Today I wanted to actually walk at speed without having to stop and check on him like I feel I need to when he's not with me.
I guess the REAL reason I'm so mad about this was yesterday we walked and he kept trying to get me home quicker. (As it is, when he is with me I only walk about half as far as I would go without him.) When we got home, we did creative problem solve about it and he said "ok, he would go 2 times around the long way when walked" and I said Ok, that will work for me.
Today, he tried to get out of it and said he didn't want to do it as long as he said yesterday. All he seems to care about is what he wants in the moment. What he said isn't important to him and what I want isn't important to him.
No, a different time of day won't work for him, and no we can't bring the dog to a dog park. I know you're just throwing out ideas to prove there are other choices but here's the thing.
I truly feel like Joe I have been round and round this issue and the only thing that's going to work for him (staying home) is the thing that won't work for me
and I don't understand why he can't just acknowledge how lucky he is to do whatever he wants all day every day and ocassionally do what I ask him to do and be happy about it.
It is a very common theme on our lives these days, that if it wasn't Joe's idea, he is not open to it. My day is completely structured around Joe and what he wants. I'm starting to get resentful and I don't want to be like that.
And I do the walk around the block 2 dozen times while he stays home with the cell phone. I do that a lot. I don't like it. Today I wanted to actually walk at speed without having to stop and check on him like I feel I need to when he's not with me.
I guess the REAL reason I'm so mad about this was yesterday we walked and he kept trying to get me home quicker. (As it is, when he is with me I only walk about half as far as I would go without him.) When we got home, we did creative problem solve about it and he said "ok, he would go 2 times around the long way when walked" and I said Ok, that will work for me.
Today, he tried to get out of it and said he didn't want to do it as long as he said yesterday. All he seems to care about is what he wants in the moment. What he said isn't important to him and what I want isn't important to him.
No, a different time of day won't work for him, and no we can't bring the dog to a dog park. I know you're just throwing out ideas to prove there are other choices but here's the thing.
I truly feel like Joe I have been round and round this issue and the only thing that's going to work for him (staying home) is the thing that won't work for me
and I don't understand why he can't just acknowledge how lucky he is to do whatever he wants all day every day and ocassionally do what I ask him to do and be happy about it.
It is a very common theme on our lives these days, that if it wasn't Joe's idea, he is not open to it. My day is completely structured around Joe and what he wants. I'm starting to get resentful and I don't want to be like that.
Sandra Dodd
-=-In my mind (and I don't know for sure if this is true) the majority of the people on this list would say that if I had to make a choice between forcing my son to walk the dog or something else, I should choose the something else.
-=-Is that true? In order to be an effective unschooling parent can you never pull rank and force? -=-
I hope your goal isn't "to be an effective unschooling parent." I hope your goal is to find ways to put learning first, to live by principles and to have a good relationship with your son.
Sandra
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-=-Is that true? In order to be an effective unschooling parent can you never pull rank and force? -=-
I hope your goal isn't "to be an effective unschooling parent." I hope your goal is to find ways to put learning first, to live by principles and to have a good relationship with your son.
Sandra
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otherstar
From: Lisa
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 9:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: refusal
One of the things about being able to realize how lucky you are is that it requires knowing about the alternatives. If your son has always been unschooled, then he may not think of himself as lucky. It is just the way he lives. One of the reasons that we live the way we do is so that my kids don't have to know about the alternatives first hand. Without knowing about those alternatives, there is no reason for a kid to think of him/herself as lucky. The only time my kids express gratitude about our lifestyle is when we are out and about and they see other parents being mean to their kids. My oldest will say, "Man, I am so glad that you are not like that mom." I don't want to deliberately expose my kids to jerks in order for them to think of themselves as lucky. I would rather them NOT realize that they are lucky because none of us enjoy seeing other people boss their kids around.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 9:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: refusal
>>>>And I do the walk around the block 2 dozen times while he stays home with the cell phone. I do that a lot. I don't like it. Today I wanted to actually walk at speed without having to stop and check on him like I feel I need to when he's not with me.<<<<Why don't you like it? You don't have to stop and check on him. You could choose not to stop and check on him. Why do you feel the need to check on him when he is not with you?
>>>>Today, he tried to get out of it and said he didn't want to do it as long as he said yesterday. All he seems to care about is what he wants in the moment. What he said isn't important to him and what I want isn't important to him.<<<To me, it sounds like your creative problem solving was entrapment. You negotiated with him until he told you what you wanted to hear. Would you have let him get by with NOT agreeing to walk with you for a shorter period of time? He is an 8 year old. Eight year olds are still pretty self-centered. It is pretty common for kids (and adults) to not be able think about what other people want or need. I wonder if your son feels the same way that you do. I wonder if he feels like all you care about is walking the dog. When you want to walk the dog, what he says is not important. His desire to stay home is just as big as your desire to go for your walk. He won't be 8 forever.
>>>>I truly feel like Joe I have been round and round this issue and the only thing that's going to work for him (staying home) is the thing that won't work for me<<<<He is a kid. Why are you expecting him to understand what you need when you can't understand what he needs? It sounds like you have reached an impasse where you have made up your mind that you are not going to give in. Why are you expecting your son to give in when you can't/won't?
>>>>and I don't understand why he can't just acknowledge how lucky he is to do whatever he wants all day every day and ocassionally do what I ask him to do and be happy about it.<<<<Why can't you acknowledge that he is an 8 year old boy that doesn't like to go for walks with his mother? Why can't you just walk at a different time and be happy about it? You don't have to answer those questions. I am turning your questions around and trying to help you see things from your son's perspective.
One of the things about being able to realize how lucky you are is that it requires knowing about the alternatives. If your son has always been unschooled, then he may not think of himself as lucky. It is just the way he lives. One of the reasons that we live the way we do is so that my kids don't have to know about the alternatives first hand. Without knowing about those alternatives, there is no reason for a kid to think of him/herself as lucky. The only time my kids express gratitude about our lifestyle is when we are out and about and they see other parents being mean to their kids. My oldest will say, "Man, I am so glad that you are not like that mom." I don't want to deliberately expose my kids to jerks in order for them to think of themselves as lucky. I would rather them NOT realize that they are lucky because none of us enjoy seeing other people boss their kids around.
Connie
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Sandra Dodd
-=-Some days I can't give the dog a walk unless my son comes with me -=-
-=-And I do the walk around the block 2 dozen times while he stays home with the cell phone. I do that a lot. I don't like it. Today I wanted to actually walk at speed without having to stop and check on him like I feel I need to when he's not with me.-=-
Either you can go without him or you can't. At first, you said you couldn't if your husband wasn't there.
Rather than stopping to call him, set the phone up at home so he can call you if he needs you. Then walk as fast as you want to. Many eight year olds are home alone for a while, or walk to school on their own, or sleep in their own room for eight or ten hours.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-And I do the walk around the block 2 dozen times while he stays home with the cell phone. I do that a lot. I don't like it. Today I wanted to actually walk at speed without having to stop and check on him like I feel I need to when he's not with me.-=-
Either you can go without him or you can't. At first, you said you couldn't if your husband wasn't there.
Rather than stopping to call him, set the phone up at home so he can call you if he needs you. Then walk as fast as you want to. Many eight year olds are home alone for a while, or walk to school on their own, or sleep in their own room for eight or ten hours.
Sandra
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Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 17, 2011, at 10:01 PM, Lisa wrote:
telling you by his actions, his dragging his feet, his outright
refusal, that the walk is beyond his ability to put up with anymore.
And yet you persist that his feelings don't matter.
He *will* be able to delay his needs for you when he's older. The more
you pressure him to do it now and put on an act that outwardly looks
like he cares, the longer it will take for him to choose to do it
joyfully.
Assume he's doing the best he can. If you want something different, it
will be up to you.
What if you were vegetarian because meat grossed you out and your
husband wanted you to just one day a week cook liver for him. Would it
feel like love for him to pressure you into doing something that was
beyond your ability to cope with? Would if feel like love if he
brought up the mental tally of all the things he does for you to show
that you owe him this one thing?
Or would it feel like love if he found a way to get his weekly liver
fix so that he he respected your need to not deal with it?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> All he seems to care about is what he wants in the moment. What heBut what he's saying is obviously not important to you. He keeps
> said isn't important to him and what I want isn't important to him.
telling you by his actions, his dragging his feet, his outright
refusal, that the walk is beyond his ability to put up with anymore.
And yet you persist that his feelings don't matter.
He *will* be able to delay his needs for you when he's older. The more
you pressure him to do it now and put on an act that outwardly looks
like he cares, the longer it will take for him to choose to do it
joyfully.
Assume he's doing the best he can. If you want something different, it
will be up to you.
What if you were vegetarian because meat grossed you out and your
husband wanted you to just one day a week cook liver for him. Would it
feel like love for him to pressure you into doing something that was
beyond your ability to cope with? Would if feel like love if he
brought up the mental tally of all the things he does for you to show
that you owe him this one thing?
Or would it feel like love if he found a way to get his weekly liver
fix so that he he respected your need to not deal with it?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- Today I wanted to actually walk at speed without having to stop and check on him like I feel I need to when he's not with me.-=-
I think maybe you could use the walks to practice breathing and calming yourself.
http://sandradodd.com/breathing
It sounds a little like you want there to be a rule that he does what you want. Lots of parents do. But it doesn't work out. It turns into resistance. As it now, only one of you can win. If he goes, you get your way; he loses. If he stays, you feel like he got his way, and you lost.
Just this morning, on another list, Schuyler Waynforth wrote this:
-=-It isn't self-sacrifice to work for your team. It's teamwork.-=-
It's from something a little longer, and I put it here. This link might help, too, though:
http://sandradodd.com/negativity
-=-Today, he tried to get out of it and said he didn't want to do it as long as he said yesterday. All he seems to care about is what he wants in the moment. What he said isn't important to him and what I want isn't important to him.-=-
He gave you what he thought you wanted in the moment the day before.
There's a good reason children aren't allowed to sign contracts. They're too young to understand. And he loves you, and he will say, "Ok, Mom" to things he doesn't really want to do, or that aren't really going to be as good/desireable/useful to him as something else. He *should* be making the choice that seems best to him each time he makes a choice.
-=-No, a different time of day won't work for him, and no we can't bring the dog to a dog park. I know you're just throwing out ideas to prove there are other choices but here's the thing.-=-
Do you do that to Joe? Do you response to honest communication with "NO, blah blah and NO, blah blah." ?
When people write here on the list, it's not to fix an individual's problem. It's to discuss the situation in an unschooling light, for the benefit of anyone who reads the list today or tomorrow or who reads the archives a year from now.
-=-I know you're just throwing out ideas to prove ...-=-
No one here is "just" throwing out ideas.
People here are voluntarily sharing what they have learned and seen and what has worked for them, sharing it wholeheartedly and generously. Not "just throwing out ideas." Please be careful with the word "just." Don't use it unless you mean it.
-=-and I don't understand why he can't just acknowledge how lucky he is to do whatever he wants all day every day and ocassionally do what I ask him to do and be happy about it.-=-
Because he has no basis for comparison. Instead of you seeing how lucky he is and being jealous of it, if you can come to see yourself as his partner, then you're winning to. Then you will understand why you can benefit from knowing how lucky you are to have been able to provide him the opportunity to make real choices every day, and he will do what you ask much more often, and you'll both be happier.
-=-It is a very common theme on our lives these days, that if it wasn't Joe's idea, he is not open to it. My day is completely structured around Joe and what he wants. I'm starting to get resentful and I don't want to be like that.-=-
How old are you, and how old is Joe?
You don't need to tell us. You probably shouldn't.
But for yourself, you might want to consider that.
(Joe is eight; you're not.)
He's not responsible for your feelings, for the peace of your day, for "being fair" in your imagined world.
When my kids were little my main considerations (principles) had to do with safety, learning and happiness. If he's going to learn more by staying home and playing games, then unschooling's about learning and he should stay home.
Meanwhile, you could find ways to use the dog walking time to breathe and maybe sing, listen to music or to an audio book, look up at the sky and smile. Your life is blessed. You can walk! Your dog is alive and can walk. (Our dog was put to sleep last fall. http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2010/10/joy-and-sorrow.html ) Your son is healthy and bright and responsible enough that you can leave him home alone for a short while. He's healthy enough to walk when he wants to. Not all children are.
I can't see your house from here, but unless you live in a highrise apartment, there might be other things you could do than "take the dog for a walk." Can you throw a ball for him right near the house? Is the walk for exercise? For excremental purposes? Or is it because you have a rule that the dog needs to go for a walk every day? You don't need to tell us any of those things. Someone else reading probably got an "Oh right!" thought out of something above.
If the walk is a "just because" thing, please don't put your idea of what should happen with/for a dog above your son.
Being your child's partner:
http://sandradodd.com/partners/child
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think maybe you could use the walks to practice breathing and calming yourself.
http://sandradodd.com/breathing
It sounds a little like you want there to be a rule that he does what you want. Lots of parents do. But it doesn't work out. It turns into resistance. As it now, only one of you can win. If he goes, you get your way; he loses. If he stays, you feel like he got his way, and you lost.
Just this morning, on another list, Schuyler Waynforth wrote this:
-=-It isn't self-sacrifice to work for your team. It's teamwork.-=-
It's from something a little longer, and I put it here. This link might help, too, though:
http://sandradodd.com/negativity
-=-Today, he tried to get out of it and said he didn't want to do it as long as he said yesterday. All he seems to care about is what he wants in the moment. What he said isn't important to him and what I want isn't important to him.-=-
He gave you what he thought you wanted in the moment the day before.
There's a good reason children aren't allowed to sign contracts. They're too young to understand. And he loves you, and he will say, "Ok, Mom" to things he doesn't really want to do, or that aren't really going to be as good/desireable/useful to him as something else. He *should* be making the choice that seems best to him each time he makes a choice.
-=-No, a different time of day won't work for him, and no we can't bring the dog to a dog park. I know you're just throwing out ideas to prove there are other choices but here's the thing.-=-
Do you do that to Joe? Do you response to honest communication with "NO, blah blah and NO, blah blah." ?
When people write here on the list, it's not to fix an individual's problem. It's to discuss the situation in an unschooling light, for the benefit of anyone who reads the list today or tomorrow or who reads the archives a year from now.
-=-I know you're just throwing out ideas to prove ...-=-
No one here is "just" throwing out ideas.
People here are voluntarily sharing what they have learned and seen and what has worked for them, sharing it wholeheartedly and generously. Not "just throwing out ideas." Please be careful with the word "just." Don't use it unless you mean it.
-=-and I don't understand why he can't just acknowledge how lucky he is to do whatever he wants all day every day and ocassionally do what I ask him to do and be happy about it.-=-
Because he has no basis for comparison. Instead of you seeing how lucky he is and being jealous of it, if you can come to see yourself as his partner, then you're winning to. Then you will understand why you can benefit from knowing how lucky you are to have been able to provide him the opportunity to make real choices every day, and he will do what you ask much more often, and you'll both be happier.
-=-It is a very common theme on our lives these days, that if it wasn't Joe's idea, he is not open to it. My day is completely structured around Joe and what he wants. I'm starting to get resentful and I don't want to be like that.-=-
How old are you, and how old is Joe?
You don't need to tell us. You probably shouldn't.
But for yourself, you might want to consider that.
(Joe is eight; you're not.)
He's not responsible for your feelings, for the peace of your day, for "being fair" in your imagined world.
When my kids were little my main considerations (principles) had to do with safety, learning and happiness. If he's going to learn more by staying home and playing games, then unschooling's about learning and he should stay home.
Meanwhile, you could find ways to use the dog walking time to breathe and maybe sing, listen to music or to an audio book, look up at the sky and smile. Your life is blessed. You can walk! Your dog is alive and can walk. (Our dog was put to sleep last fall. http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2010/10/joy-and-sorrow.html ) Your son is healthy and bright and responsible enough that you can leave him home alone for a short while. He's healthy enough to walk when he wants to. Not all children are.
I can't see your house from here, but unless you live in a highrise apartment, there might be other things you could do than "take the dog for a walk." Can you throw a ball for him right near the house? Is the walk for exercise? For excremental purposes? Or is it because you have a rule that the dog needs to go for a walk every day? You don't need to tell us any of those things. Someone else reading probably got an "Oh right!" thought out of something above.
If the walk is a "just because" thing, please don't put your idea of what should happen with/for a dog above your son.
Being your child's partner:
http://sandradodd.com/partners/child
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***It sounds a little like you want there to be a rule that he does what you
want. Lots of parents do. But it doesn't work out. It turns into resistance. As
it now, only one of you can win. If he goes, you get your way; he loses. If he
stays, you feel like he got his way, and you lost.***
Here's something else to consider along those lines... If you use up all your
enforcement when he's young, when he gets older, and there's something he really
must do, he may say "no" and there really won't be much you can do about it.
Here's an example of something that I thought about not long ago... Chamille had
a doctor's appointment. She didn't want to go, my husband needed the car for an
emergency work thing, so I cancelled last minute and rescheduled. It's not
something I like to do, but Chamille was glad that it worked out in her favor,
BUT the next week, she still didn't want to go. I had this brief thought flash
through my mind of what it would be like to have a teenage daughter who doesn't
care at all how I feel about things because our relationship had been built up
that way for years. I thought about it and realized that there are probably
LOTS of teenage daughters who would tell their mom "no way" to a doctor's appt
and the mom, I was imagining myself here, would need to suck it up and call and
cancel AGAIN.
It wasn't a pleasant thought at all, but there are lots and lots of parents who
do deal with this all the time. I've invested a lot of time and energy in
acknowledging and putting my children's needs as priority. The times for
forcing a child to do something they really don't want to do should be rare and
used for something very important. My daughter got herself up and went to the
doctor's appointment because I insisted that we go and not reschedule. I didn't
really give her a choice, but she could have chosen to ignore that. It was a
pleasant visit and a pleasant drive to and from and we listened to music and
talked about pleasant things even though she really really didn't want to get up
and go at all.
It's a little reminder that if your child loses too much when she's little, when
she's bigger she may choose not to lose anymore, but since that's the dynamic
she's grown up with, someone else will.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
want. Lots of parents do. But it doesn't work out. It turns into resistance. As
it now, only one of you can win. If he goes, you get your way; he loses. If he
stays, you feel like he got his way, and you lost.***
Here's something else to consider along those lines... If you use up all your
enforcement when he's young, when he gets older, and there's something he really
must do, he may say "no" and there really won't be much you can do about it.
Here's an example of something that I thought about not long ago... Chamille had
a doctor's appointment. She didn't want to go, my husband needed the car for an
emergency work thing, so I cancelled last minute and rescheduled. It's not
something I like to do, but Chamille was glad that it worked out in her favor,
BUT the next week, she still didn't want to go. I had this brief thought flash
through my mind of what it would be like to have a teenage daughter who doesn't
care at all how I feel about things because our relationship had been built up
that way for years. I thought about it and realized that there are probably
LOTS of teenage daughters who would tell their mom "no way" to a doctor's appt
and the mom, I was imagining myself here, would need to suck it up and call and
cancel AGAIN.
It wasn't a pleasant thought at all, but there are lots and lots of parents who
do deal with this all the time. I've invested a lot of time and energy in
acknowledging and putting my children's needs as priority. The times for
forcing a child to do something they really don't want to do should be rare and
used for something very important. My daughter got herself up and went to the
doctor's appointment because I insisted that we go and not reschedule. I didn't
really give her a choice, but she could have chosen to ignore that. It was a
pleasant visit and a pleasant drive to and from and we listened to music and
talked about pleasant things even though she really really didn't want to get up
and go at all.
It's a little reminder that if your child loses too much when she's little, when
she's bigger she may choose not to lose anymore, but since that's the dynamic
she's grown up with, someone else will.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
--==--The way I currently feel is I am mad. I am mad that I bust my butt all
day every day to get Joe what he wants and he won't take 40 minutes and walk
the dog happily with me.
This is the ONLY thing I will ask him to do today. Other than this, he eats
what he wants, watches what he wants, and does what he wants.--==--
----------------------------
Breathe. And reassess how you view your relationship with your son. Don't see
this moment as the straw that breaks the camels back, try and figure out ways
not to be an overladen camel. If you are feeling like you bust your butt to get
Joe what he wants maybe you need to figure out ways to enjoy what you do for and
with him more and try and see yourself less and less like a martyred mom who is
only asking for this one thing in return.
Can you walk the dog in two 20 minute walks? Can you walk the dog in four 10
minute walks? Are there other divisions so that you can step out with the dog
for a few minutes and play and walk around the block and then be back before Joe
even notices. Take a phone and you could even be on the phone with Joe the whole
time you were out. Or long distance walkie talkies, and you could say "over" and
"that's a big 10-4" and sing the song Convoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWO_AIh8drk. It may not seem as satisfying as a
lovely 40 minute walk but it does tick all the boxes and keep all the needs
tended to.
I just advocated bribery on a different list to a different question, maybe on
days when it isn't possible to walk your dog in short bursts you could offer
something enticing to Joe for after the dog walking. Go and get an ice cream or
go to the video game store or something along those lines. Have the walk of the
dog coincide with something else pleasurable that Joe wants to do.
Drawing a line in the sand about this being something that Joe owes you because
of all that you've given isn't going to make him want to come along with you any
more than he already does. It is much more likely to make him more and more
resistant to ever coming. It's also going to really underscore the fact that all
that you do isn't really a gift, it's more a leverage point. I imagine that
isn't what you intend.
Schuyler
________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
day every day to get Joe what he wants and he won't take 40 minutes and walk
the dog happily with me.
This is the ONLY thing I will ask him to do today. Other than this, he eats
what he wants, watches what he wants, and does what he wants.--==--
----------------------------
Breathe. And reassess how you view your relationship with your son. Don't see
this moment as the straw that breaks the camels back, try and figure out ways
not to be an overladen camel. If you are feeling like you bust your butt to get
Joe what he wants maybe you need to figure out ways to enjoy what you do for and
with him more and try and see yourself less and less like a martyred mom who is
only asking for this one thing in return.
Can you walk the dog in two 20 minute walks? Can you walk the dog in four 10
minute walks? Are there other divisions so that you can step out with the dog
for a few minutes and play and walk around the block and then be back before Joe
even notices. Take a phone and you could even be on the phone with Joe the whole
time you were out. Or long distance walkie talkies, and you could say "over" and
"that's a big 10-4" and sing the song Convoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWO_AIh8drk. It may not seem as satisfying as a
lovely 40 minute walk but it does tick all the boxes and keep all the needs
tended to.
I just advocated bribery on a different list to a different question, maybe on
days when it isn't possible to walk your dog in short bursts you could offer
something enticing to Joe for after the dog walking. Go and get an ice cream or
go to the video game store or something along those lines. Have the walk of the
dog coincide with something else pleasurable that Joe wants to do.
Drawing a line in the sand about this being something that Joe owes you because
of all that you've given isn't going to make him want to come along with you any
more than he already does. It is much more likely to make him more and more
resistant to ever coming. It's also going to really underscore the fact that all
that you do isn't really a gift, it's more a leverage point. I imagine that
isn't what you intend.
Schuyler
________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tina Tarbutton
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 10:01 PM, Lisa <lisa@...> wrote:
his idea he doesn't want to do it, if it was his idea and in the middle of
it he changes his mind, he no longer wants to do it, if we think
we convinced him to do it (by offering something he wants before during
and/or after) he will quite often be in a really crappy mood the whole time
we're doing whatever the thing is.
I pretty much just flow with it. My partner however has a really hard time
with it, she doesn't understand why he can't just be happy doing stuff for
us sometimes.
I gently point out to her that, in our case at least, he does happily do
things for us sometimes. He picks up our dishes sometimes without being
asked, he feeds the cats sometimes when he notices they need food, he shuts
his door to his room sometimes when he notices he's being too loud and might
be disturbing us, he sometimes stops what he's doing just to come and give a
hug or some cuddles. I make it a point to look for these things, for the
little times when Draven happily does something for us, so that when he not
so happily does something for us, or when he refuses to do something for us,
I don't fall into the always/never thinking. It helps me a lot, she has a
harder time seeing it that way and tends to fall into the "Why does he
always" line of thinking more often.
Part of it is our fault, we (my partner and I) have a habit of taking
advantage of Draven's yesses. If I ask Draven once to scoop the litter
because I really just don't feel like doing it for the 3rd time that day, he
may do it happily, but if I then start asking him to do it once a day, he
will get less happy each time, until it turns into a fight. If I don't ask
for a long while, and if I accept lots of no's, then spontaneously he'll
offer to take care of it one evening or morning when I least expect it.
Maybe mix a bunch of the suggestions. A few times a week take your long
walks after your husband gets home (or before he leaves in the morning) a
few times a week take a shorter walk and mix in phone/walkie talkie/check
ins to make yourself comfortable with Joe's safety, and once every week or
two ask (but gracefully accept no) Joe to take a walk with you. The more
often you accept no, and the less often you ask, the more likely he is to
eventually, joyfully walk with you, occasionally.
Tina
--
Unschooling Untitled <http://www.unschoolinguntitled.com> (
http://www.unschoolinguntitled.com )
Living an unschooled lifestyle, one experience at a time!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>We're going through this a lot with 11 y/o Draven right now. If it isn't
> It is a very common theme on our lives these days, that if it wasn't Joe's
> idea, he is not open to it. My day is completely structured around Joe and
> what he wants. I'm starting to get resentful and I don't want to be like
> that.
>
his idea he doesn't want to do it, if it was his idea and in the middle of
it he changes his mind, he no longer wants to do it, if we think
we convinced him to do it (by offering something he wants before during
and/or after) he will quite often be in a really crappy mood the whole time
we're doing whatever the thing is.
I pretty much just flow with it. My partner however has a really hard time
with it, she doesn't understand why he can't just be happy doing stuff for
us sometimes.
I gently point out to her that, in our case at least, he does happily do
things for us sometimes. He picks up our dishes sometimes without being
asked, he feeds the cats sometimes when he notices they need food, he shuts
his door to his room sometimes when he notices he's being too loud and might
be disturbing us, he sometimes stops what he's doing just to come and give a
hug or some cuddles. I make it a point to look for these things, for the
little times when Draven happily does something for us, so that when he not
so happily does something for us, or when he refuses to do something for us,
I don't fall into the always/never thinking. It helps me a lot, she has a
harder time seeing it that way and tends to fall into the "Why does he
always" line of thinking more often.
Part of it is our fault, we (my partner and I) have a habit of taking
advantage of Draven's yesses. If I ask Draven once to scoop the litter
because I really just don't feel like doing it for the 3rd time that day, he
may do it happily, but if I then start asking him to do it once a day, he
will get less happy each time, until it turns into a fight. If I don't ask
for a long while, and if I accept lots of no's, then spontaneously he'll
offer to take care of it one evening or morning when I least expect it.
Maybe mix a bunch of the suggestions. A few times a week take your long
walks after your husband gets home (or before he leaves in the morning) a
few times a week take a shorter walk and mix in phone/walkie talkie/check
ins to make yourself comfortable with Joe's safety, and once every week or
two ask (but gracefully accept no) Joe to take a walk with you. The more
often you accept no, and the less often you ask, the more likely he is to
eventually, joyfully walk with you, occasionally.
Tina
--
Unschooling Untitled <http://www.unschoolinguntitled.com> (
http://www.unschoolinguntitled.com )
Living an unschooled lifestyle, one experience at a time!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mica
Inspired by Schuyler's idea:
+++. Take a phone and you could even be on the phone with Joe the whole
time you were out. Or long distance walkie talkies, and you could say "over"
and
"that's a big 10-4" and sing the song Convoy: +++
I suddenly imagined the mum pretending to be an undercover agent while
walking the dog, reporting observations back to HQ or CC. IF she happens to
make it fun enough, her son might argue to play the field agent next time.
I remember my sons and I once saw my sister walking home from a house she'd
gone to view and (as we must recently have been watching some show involving
surveillance) we decided to act as a surveillance team - keeping out of
sight of my sister but tracking her movements. It probably wouldnt be a good
idea to do this with strangers, but the important thing is imagination - one
could be an agent-in-black observing "aliens".
Imagination taking it further one of them might want to follow the field
agent via google maps - or even give directions to the guy in the field.
Just a flight of imagination.
Bravo on bringing your challenge to the list.
My 13yo is quite keen on minecraft too.
Mica
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
+++. Take a phone and you could even be on the phone with Joe the whole
time you were out. Or long distance walkie talkies, and you could say "over"
and
"that's a big 10-4" and sing the song Convoy: +++
I suddenly imagined the mum pretending to be an undercover agent while
walking the dog, reporting observations back to HQ or CC. IF she happens to
make it fun enough, her son might argue to play the field agent next time.
I remember my sons and I once saw my sister walking home from a house she'd
gone to view and (as we must recently have been watching some show involving
surveillance) we decided to act as a surveillance team - keeping out of
sight of my sister but tracking her movements. It probably wouldnt be a good
idea to do this with strangers, but the important thing is imagination - one
could be an agent-in-black observing "aliens".
Imagination taking it further one of them might want to follow the field
agent via google maps - or even give directions to the guy in the field.
Just a flight of imagination.
Bravo on bringing your challenge to the list.
My 13yo is quite keen on minecraft too.
Mica
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
amylizkid1
My Grandma would say, "If you're not getting what you want, change your wanter."
I had this same problem when my daughter,Emma, now 8, was younger. After a couple weeks of frustration, I decided my daughter was more important than a walk and that there were other ways to get what I wanted. I bought myself a small trampoline, and started playing fetch with the dog. Was it the same? No. But it was nice to get rid of the anger, and to come up with a solution.
Also, Emma has turned into quite the good problem solver. Maybe if your son sees you come up with a creative, peaceful solution, he will be able to use that when he has a frustrating problem.
Amy K.
I had this same problem when my daughter,Emma, now 8, was younger. After a couple weeks of frustration, I decided my daughter was more important than a walk and that there were other ways to get what I wanted. I bought myself a small trampoline, and started playing fetch with the dog. Was it the same? No. But it was nice to get rid of the anger, and to come up with a solution.
Also, Emma has turned into quite the good problem solver. Maybe if your son sees you come up with a creative, peaceful solution, he will be able to use that when he has a frustrating problem.
Amy K.
--- In [email protected], "Lisa" <lisa@...> wrote:
>
> My son, Joe, is 8. I walk our dog every day. I think it is very important for the dog and I both to get a walk. I would LOVE for my son to get a walk outside every day too.
>
> Joe doesn't want to go because he finds it a little bit boring and he would rather stay home and play minecraft.
>
> Some days I can't give the dog a walk unless my son comes with me (if my husband is gone all day). The older my son gets, the more he says he doesn't want to go. Today he flat out refused and I'm mad about it.
>
> This means none of us get a walk unless I force Joe to go or I wait till 10:30 at night to do it (when my husband gets home).
>
> In my mind (and I don't know for sure if this is true) the majority of the people on this list would say that if I had to make a choice between forcing my son to walk the dog or something else, I should choose the something else.
>
> Is that true? In order to be an effective unschooling parent can you never pull rank and force?
>
> If there are other ways to feel about this can you help me see them?
>
> The way I currently feel is I am mad. I am mad that I bust my butt all day every day to get Joe what he wants and he won't take 40 minutes and walk the dog happily with me.
>
> This is the ONLY thing I will ask him to do today. Other than this, he eats what he wants, watches what he wants, and does what he wants.
>
> thanks, Lisa
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-I just advocated bribery on a different list to a different question, maybe on
days when it isn't possible to walk your dog in short bursts you could offer
something enticing to Joe for after the dog walking. Go and get an ice cream or
go to the video game store or something along those lines. Have the walk of the
dog coincide with something else pleasurable that Joe wants to do. -=-
In case anyone bristled at the mention of bribery, there are other ways to look at it, and bribery in a relationship isn't so bad. When I want someone to go with me to the post office (where I go at least four times a week to mail books), I'm very likely to invite a person who also has an errand to run, and it's more fun to go to two or three places together than each of us alone. Some would call it bribery, but I see it as sharing and togetherness. Sometimes Holly asks me to go with her on errands without promising me ANYthing "for myself," and I'm often very happy to go, just to be in the car with her and talk, or sing along to the radio with her. Sometimes I don't want to go with her, and she (at a mature 19) never whines or threatens me. Probably because she's had a life of being accommodated and listened to!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
days when it isn't possible to walk your dog in short bursts you could offer
something enticing to Joe for after the dog walking. Go and get an ice cream or
go to the video game store or something along those lines. Have the walk of the
dog coincide with something else pleasurable that Joe wants to do. -=-
In case anyone bristled at the mention of bribery, there are other ways to look at it, and bribery in a relationship isn't so bad. When I want someone to go with me to the post office (where I go at least four times a week to mail books), I'm very likely to invite a person who also has an errand to run, and it's more fun to go to two or three places together than each of us alone. Some would call it bribery, but I see it as sharing and togetherness. Sometimes Holly asks me to go with her on errands without promising me ANYthing "for myself," and I'm often very happy to go, just to be in the car with her and talk, or sing along to the radio with her. Sometimes I don't want to go with her, and she (at a mature 19) never whines or threatens me. Probably because she's had a life of being accommodated and listened to!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kristi_beguin
>>>All he seems to care about is what he wants in the moment. What he said isn't important to him and what I want isn't important to him.<<<What he said wasn't important to him because he was probably trying to find a quick way to get you to drop the topic. If you've made this issue of walking into a great big problem for him, it will be very difficult for him to care that it's important to you, because right now it is a great big problem he'd rather not deal with.
>>>I truly feel like Joe I have been round and round this issue and the only thing that's going to work for him (staying home) is the thing that won't work for me.<<<Is your issue deeper than you just needing to get a walk with a dog? Are you concerned that Joe isn't getting enough physical activity? You've already said you go sometimes without him, so it sounds like it can work. Maybe it's just not your ideal. If you're concerned about physical activity, think about other ways to help him get it, a mini trampoline, a rope swing, biking, scooters, etc.
>>>and I don't understand why he can't just acknowledge how lucky he is to do whatever he wants all day every day and ocassionally do what I ask him to do and be happy about it.<<<Because he's 8, and you've made this into a great big deal for him. (I'm guessing that based on the way you've described "going round and round.") If you want him to go on a walk with you every day, that's not "occasionally."
>>>My day is completely structured around Joe and what he wants. I'm starting to get resentful and I don't want to be like that.<<<Presumably your day is completely structured around your son because you are unschooling by choice. If you can drop the issue of the walk for a while, maybe a long while, it might be something he will choose to do joyfully in the future.
I live at the edge of an amazing set of trails and wilderness. When my children were littler I envisioned the thousands of hikes we would take as they got older...in the snow, in the sun, in the rain, in the beauty. But the reality is they don't want to go on walks very often. Yesterday, my oldest wanted to take a hike with our dog. That is the first time in about 1.5 months. And before that, maybe longer. I let my kids tell me when they want to walk, because then I know that their interest is there and I am not pushing them into something just because I want to do it. I ask them on occasion, to throw the idea out, but I don't require it, and can easily accept no if they don't want to go. It took me a long time to feel comfortable with the idea that I didn't need to constantly ask them to accompany me on walks several times a week. But I see very clearly that when they want to go, the walks are full of discovery and fun, and not laden with conflict or requirement.
plaidpanties666
Tina Tarbutton <tina.tarbutton@...> wrote:
---Meredith
>> Maybe mix a bunch of the suggestions.This is a really important point. It's not uncommon for parents to get stuck looking for A solution - almost like wanting to have a rule or a right answer: The Solution is X. But that's not the way real life works much of the time and it's often better to have a mix of options, to be flexible. It isn't realistic to expect the same option to fit every time.
---Meredith
Bun
A couple of other ideas..
Could someone (friend, mother's helper, babysitter, relative, etc) come over and hang out with your son while you walked the dog? Would your son enjoy hanging out at a friend's house (maybe even playing the same game he likes) while you walk the dog? Could you get up and go before your husband goes to work?
If the walk is not to get outside, but mostly for the exercise, could you get a treadmill?
Or maybe use a treadmill for the time you wish to exercise, and take a shorter walk like you are already doing for outside time. Try to figure out a way to meet your own needs while still respecting his. Laurie
Could someone (friend, mother's helper, babysitter, relative, etc) come over and hang out with your son while you walked the dog? Would your son enjoy hanging out at a friend's house (maybe even playing the same game he likes) while you walk the dog? Could you get up and go before your husband goes to work?
If the walk is not to get outside, but mostly for the exercise, could you get a treadmill?
Or maybe use a treadmill for the time you wish to exercise, and take a shorter walk like you are already doing for outside time. Try to figure out a way to meet your own needs while still respecting his. Laurie
Lisa
I really appreciate all the suggestions and thoughtful responses here. I am stuck in both negativity, and thinking that Joe should do what I want him to do - especially when it's good for him and especially since I ask him for so little. I'm having a hard time releasing these two things, although I know when I do my life will be better and everyone will be happier. And I do want to be happy and I do want to be a part of a happy family.
I feel like there's a lot of fear or something that's messing with me that's making it hard.
thank you again, I was being totally honest with how I was feeling even though I knew it didn't paint me in a very flattering light, because I needed those pushes, those reminders, those VERY REAL WORDS that directly addressed what the real issue was (not the walking but my attitude.)
Lisa
I feel like there's a lot of fear or something that's messing with me that's making it hard.
thank you again, I was being totally honest with how I was feeling even though I knew it didn't paint me in a very flattering light, because I needed those pushes, those reminders, those VERY REAL WORDS that directly addressed what the real issue was (not the walking but my attitude.)
Lisa
plaidpanties666
"Lisa" <lisa@...> wrote:
If you can see from his perspective, you aren't asking for "so little" - you're asking something every single day, maybe more than one time a day. That will make it feel like a monkey on his back.
Kids can't see adult perspectives very well - that's part of what it means to be a child, that lack of broader perspective. And just like reading, there are developmental issues involved, so you can't Give your child a broader perspective any more than you can get a child to read in 100 lessons if he's not ready.
If exercise is one of your concerns, see that as a separate concern to problem solve. Its easy to lump multiple problems together and come up with one fantastic answer to the whole schebang - but when you do that for another person it can be baffling. That's something I have to watch out for, personally - I love to "fix" things, and when one solution fixes more than one thing, I'm thrilled! And if my kids think my wonderful idea is silly or dull or otherwise not applicable I can end up with my feelings hurt. But that's me setting myself up, not some fault of theirs.
---Meredith
> I am stuck in both negativity, and thinking that Joe should do what I want him to do - especially when it's good for him and especially since I ask him for so little.***************
If you can see from his perspective, you aren't asking for "so little" - you're asking something every single day, maybe more than one time a day. That will make it feel like a monkey on his back.
Kids can't see adult perspectives very well - that's part of what it means to be a child, that lack of broader perspective. And just like reading, there are developmental issues involved, so you can't Give your child a broader perspective any more than you can get a child to read in 100 lessons if he's not ready.
If exercise is one of your concerns, see that as a separate concern to problem solve. Its easy to lump multiple problems together and come up with one fantastic answer to the whole schebang - but when you do that for another person it can be baffling. That's something I have to watch out for, personally - I love to "fix" things, and when one solution fixes more than one thing, I'm thrilled! And if my kids think my wonderful idea is silly or dull or otherwise not applicable I can end up with my feelings hurt. But that's me setting myself up, not some fault of theirs.
---Meredith
wtexans
===I am stuck in both negativity, and thinking that Joe should do what I want him to do===
Jeff Sabo, an unschooling dad, has a recent post about expectations & entitlement that is good, and one from 2009 about expectations that is good.
http://justabaldman.blogspot.com/2011/04/earning-your-stripes.html -- About expectations & entitlement
http://justabaldman.blogspot.com/2009/04/expectations.html -- About expectations
If the link to Sandra's page about expectations hasn't already been posted, it's here: http://sandradodd.com/expectations.
And the link to her page about negativity is here: http://sandradodd.com/negativity.
On the negativity page, I like what Schuyler said: "Often if I'm stuck not being able to see the positive in something, I need to quit looking at it. I need to look at other things. I need to find something to move forward to instead of whirling and twirling around the angsty thing. Make the angry thing small and insignificant, turn away from it, look for bright and shiny things to distract you, look at tiny things that give you pleasure, look at large things that you didn't appreciate fully the first time around. Turning toward joy will definitely make it harder to feel stymied in the negative."
Maybe, if you're struggling to find a positive way to look at the going-for-a-walk situation with your son, it would help to step away from the topic completely for a day or week or month.
We don't take our dogs for walks, but we do find other ways to exercise them. One loves to play hide-n-seek with our son -- he will hide, she (the dog) and I will be behind closed doors elsewhere in the house, my son will holler "ready!", I'll open the door to wherever the dog and I are and she'll take off searching for him. It's a physical workout for her, but a mental one too -- when we're done playing, she's wiped out! The other dog likes to retrieve a ball, so we can make that happen in the house (yes! I throw balls in the house, and sometimes I knock things over!) or we can make that happen in the backyard. If you have a treadmill or can easily obtain one, your dog can get exercise on that.
It does help to think outside the box of "how can ___ goal be achieved?". I've walked our dogs in the neighborhood from time to time, but it's stressful for me for various reasons, not enjoyable at all, so I've found other ways to get them exercise that is fun for them and me. Every so often my guys and I will load up the dogs and take them down to the river for a walk, and we enjoy it when we do it (well, it's still *a little* stressful for me!), but it's not an expectation.
When I had an expectation of myself that I would walk the dogs in the neighborhood daily, that took the fun right out of it. Maybe that's how it feels for your son; if you take away the expectation, then those times when he chooses to go with you, that will be a treat!
Glenda
Jeff Sabo, an unschooling dad, has a recent post about expectations & entitlement that is good, and one from 2009 about expectations that is good.
http://justabaldman.blogspot.com/2011/04/earning-your-stripes.html -- About expectations & entitlement
http://justabaldman.blogspot.com/2009/04/expectations.html -- About expectations
If the link to Sandra's page about expectations hasn't already been posted, it's here: http://sandradodd.com/expectations.
And the link to her page about negativity is here: http://sandradodd.com/negativity.
On the negativity page, I like what Schuyler said: "Often if I'm stuck not being able to see the positive in something, I need to quit looking at it. I need to look at other things. I need to find something to move forward to instead of whirling and twirling around the angsty thing. Make the angry thing small and insignificant, turn away from it, look for bright and shiny things to distract you, look at tiny things that give you pleasure, look at large things that you didn't appreciate fully the first time around. Turning toward joy will definitely make it harder to feel stymied in the negative."
Maybe, if you're struggling to find a positive way to look at the going-for-a-walk situation with your son, it would help to step away from the topic completely for a day or week or month.
We don't take our dogs for walks, but we do find other ways to exercise them. One loves to play hide-n-seek with our son -- he will hide, she (the dog) and I will be behind closed doors elsewhere in the house, my son will holler "ready!", I'll open the door to wherever the dog and I are and she'll take off searching for him. It's a physical workout for her, but a mental one too -- when we're done playing, she's wiped out! The other dog likes to retrieve a ball, so we can make that happen in the house (yes! I throw balls in the house, and sometimes I knock things over!) or we can make that happen in the backyard. If you have a treadmill or can easily obtain one, your dog can get exercise on that.
It does help to think outside the box of "how can ___ goal be achieved?". I've walked our dogs in the neighborhood from time to time, but it's stressful for me for various reasons, not enjoyable at all, so I've found other ways to get them exercise that is fun for them and me. Every so often my guys and I will load up the dogs and take them down to the river for a walk, and we enjoy it when we do it (well, it's still *a little* stressful for me!), but it's not an expectation.
When I had an expectation of myself that I would walk the dogs in the neighborhood daily, that took the fun right out of it. Maybe that's how it feels for your son; if you take away the expectation, then those times when he chooses to go with you, that will be a treat!
Glenda
Sandra Dodd
-=-It does help to think outside the box of "how can ___ goal be achieved?"-=-
Yes. And it helps most of all to define the goal as something besides "how can I get my way?" :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yes. And it helps most of all to define the goal as something besides "how can I get my way?" :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 18, 2011, at 8:02 PM, Lisa wrote:
out of control which is turning into a need to control Joe?
Or have you been stuffing down your own needs to the point where the
resentment is being directed at Joe?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I'm having a hard time releasing these two things, although I knowIs there something else going on in your life that's making you feel
> when I do my life will be better and everyone will be happier. And I
> do want to be happy and I do want to be a part of a happy family.
out of control which is turning into a need to control Joe?
Or have you been stuffing down your own needs to the point where the
resentment is being directed at Joe?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa
> Is there something else going on in your life that's making you feelI don't think I've been stuffing my needs. But I'm not totally sure.
> out of control which is turning into a need to control Joe?
>
> Or have you been stuffing down your own needs to the point where the
> resentment is being directed at Joe?
>
I apparently have had a pretty deep need to control everything most of my life, due to some severe abuse when I was a child ... although I think I've been able to let a lot of it go in the last 6 years or so.
However, the better I do, the more I realize how little control I actually have over most things. All I can really control is my own actions and reactions. this can be scary if I think about it.
If I don't stay very mindful I can slip back into the 'everything is horrible and it's all your fault' in a second or two. sigh
Lisa