TV Turnoff
Sandra Dodd
"TV Turnoff Week is April 18-24. To help you unplug the electronics and plug in to your family, Chinaberry offers outstanding toys, books, and family activities. May we all discover the rewards of a TV-free lifestyle this week!"
"If they call that a week," Holly said. Monday to Sunday. She said something about how they would be counting, and I said "And they WILL be counting."
Good deal for a catalog company to sell thing to the family, but I hope everyone here already has fun things to do in addition to (rather than instead of) TV.
Holly said "I don't have a TV in my room. I have a DVD player and a Roku."
"Screen time!" Keith and I both said.
She doesn't turn it on every day. The last time I watched a TV show, I watched it on an iPad, just because i could. And because I could carry it around with me while I cleaned the kitchen and fed wood into the hot tub fire, and that seemed decadently cool.
For anyone who has missed anti-TV rhetoric, here's my own collection:
http://sandradodd.com/t/anti
OH, HOLD ON. I was just there checking links, and the Waldorf link is gone. That site no longer has an anti-TV link (or not that one, anyway), and they disallowed it to be archived at the Wayback Machine. So I went to look for another waldorf link and found two odd things. A checklist of things parents should ask teachers at a school (at a Waldorf school? Unclear, and I need to go work in the yard with Keith)... including this fascinating subset:
Is it possible that a being called Ahriman is present in electronic media?
Questions about different kinds of electronic media activites:
Is it OK if I print web pages, and read them to my child like a book?
Is it OK if I allow my child to watch home videos of family and friends? Can my child view images from my digital camera on a computer screen?
Is it OK if I allow my child to use email to keep in touch with close family members who are geographically distant?
Is it OK if my child listens to recorded music or stories? Can my child listen to the radio at home or in the car?
Is it OK if my child talks on a cell phone?
Is it OK if I use my own judgement with electronic media from time-to-time, based on special circumstances?
If my child mentioned a TV show, movie or video game, how would the teacher handle that?
I looked up "Ahriman." A devil. Persian word. A Zoroastrian devil!?
ARE there people claiming that "electronic media" will summon a devil!?
But even more insane, are their parents asking "experts" (Waldorf teachers?) whether it's okay if a child watches a home video of her cousin, or talks to her grandmother on a cellphone, or listens to music IN A STORE?
I'm half amused, half stunned/offended, and going to go and work in the yard to recover.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"If they call that a week," Holly said. Monday to Sunday. She said something about how they would be counting, and I said "And they WILL be counting."
Good deal for a catalog company to sell thing to the family, but I hope everyone here already has fun things to do in addition to (rather than instead of) TV.
Holly said "I don't have a TV in my room. I have a DVD player and a Roku."
"Screen time!" Keith and I both said.
She doesn't turn it on every day. The last time I watched a TV show, I watched it on an iPad, just because i could. And because I could carry it around with me while I cleaned the kitchen and fed wood into the hot tub fire, and that seemed decadently cool.
For anyone who has missed anti-TV rhetoric, here's my own collection:
http://sandradodd.com/t/anti
OH, HOLD ON. I was just there checking links, and the Waldorf link is gone. That site no longer has an anti-TV link (or not that one, anyway), and they disallowed it to be archived at the Wayback Machine. So I went to look for another waldorf link and found two odd things. A checklist of things parents should ask teachers at a school (at a Waldorf school? Unclear, and I need to go work in the yard with Keith)... including this fascinating subset:
Is it possible that a being called Ahriman is present in electronic media?
Questions about different kinds of electronic media activites:
Is it OK if I print web pages, and read them to my child like a book?
Is it OK if I allow my child to watch home videos of family and friends? Can my child view images from my digital camera on a computer screen?
Is it OK if I allow my child to use email to keep in touch with close family members who are geographically distant?
Is it OK if my child listens to recorded music or stories? Can my child listen to the radio at home or in the car?
Is it OK if my child talks on a cell phone?
Is it OK if I use my own judgement with electronic media from time-to-time, based on special circumstances?
If my child mentioned a TV show, movie or video game, how would the teacher handle that?
I looked up "Ahriman." A devil. Persian word. A Zoroastrian devil!?
ARE there people claiming that "electronic media" will summon a devil!?
But even more insane, are their parents asking "experts" (Waldorf teachers?) whether it's okay if a child watches a home video of her cousin, or talks to her grandmother on a cellphone, or listens to music IN A STORE?
I'm half amused, half stunned/offended, and going to go and work in the yard to recover.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
OMG!!!!
Do people really need for others to tell them what to do about those things???
Really??
I am glad you are amused, even if only half amused
I have to say that we at this moment watching Mamarduke ( sweet familymovie
about a dog) and
it is lovely too be with my kids sharing this sweet time!!!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Do people really need for others to tell them what to do about those things???
Really??
I am glad you are amused, even if only half amused
I have to say that we at this moment watching Mamarduke ( sweet familymovie
about a dog) and
it is lovely too be with my kids sharing this sweet time!!!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 16, 2011, at 5:14 PM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY wrote:
conditions of attending a Waldorf school is no TV, no computer, etc.
I think the questions aren't intended to be parenting questions but
how much leeway the school permits. So the question isn't "Is it okay
for the child?" but "Will that be breaking the school rules?" if the
child talks at school to the other kids about having done one of those
things.
It's like asking a public school how much flak you'll get for taking
your child out for a week's vacation in the middle of the school year.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Do people really need for others to tell them what to do about thoseI *think* from what I've gathered about Waldort is that one of the
> things???
> Really??
conditions of attending a Waldorf school is no TV, no computer, etc.
I think the questions aren't intended to be parenting questions but
how much leeway the school permits. So the question isn't "Is it okay
for the child?" but "Will that be breaking the school rules?" if the
child talks at school to the other kids about having done one of those
things.
It's like asking a public school how much flak you'll get for taking
your child out for a week's vacation in the middle of the school year.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa E Biesemeyer
"But even more insane, are their parents asking "experts" (Waldorf teachers?)
whether it's okay if a child watches a home video of her cousin, or talks to
her grandmother on a cellphone, or listens to music IN A STORE?"
There most absolutely are. I know a handful or more of such parents. And the
craziest part is that these parents are all very bright, thinking people.
One friend of mine, a successful multimedia artist and art academy instructor,
attended a parent class at a local (to me, SF Bay Area) Waldorf school where she
was hoping to send her, then, 3 year old son. She asked the teacher if it was
okay for her son to use a camera, as my friend often gave him one of her cameras
to use while she was doing art/work. The teacher was very adamant that a young
child should never see the world through a camera lens as it disrupts their
natural development, awakening the child too early. The teacher was also,
according to my friend, opposed to young children using black colored crayons,
and never ever markers, pens or pencils of any color. I wonder if devils come
from these also? I had actually not heard/read that before (and I have read
quite a bit of Steiner's work); maybe I missed/overlooked it.
Anyhow, devils or no devils, we won't be participating is tv turn off week :-)
Lisa B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
whether it's okay if a child watches a home video of her cousin, or talks to
her grandmother on a cellphone, or listens to music IN A STORE?"
There most absolutely are. I know a handful or more of such parents. And the
craziest part is that these parents are all very bright, thinking people.
One friend of mine, a successful multimedia artist and art academy instructor,
attended a parent class at a local (to me, SF Bay Area) Waldorf school where she
was hoping to send her, then, 3 year old son. She asked the teacher if it was
okay for her son to use a camera, as my friend often gave him one of her cameras
to use while she was doing art/work. The teacher was very adamant that a young
child should never see the world through a camera lens as it disrupts their
natural development, awakening the child too early. The teacher was also,
according to my friend, opposed to young children using black colored crayons,
and never ever markers, pens or pencils of any color. I wonder if devils come
from these also? I had actually not heard/read that before (and I have read
quite a bit of Steiner's work); maybe I missed/overlooked it.
Anyhow, devils or no devils, we won't be participating is tv turn off week :-)
Lisa B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
***ARE there people claiming that "electronic media" will summon a devil!?***
That seems to be a Waldorf thing based on some writing by Rudolf Steiner. (no surprise there) I found this:
http://www.openwaldorf.com/media.html
If you scroll down a bit you'll find a section titled "Ahriman and Television" and an excerpt from Rudolf Steiner's "The Ahrimanic Deception."
"...the Ahrimanic influence has been at work since the middle of the fifteenth century and will increase in strength until and actual incarnation of Ahriman takes place among Western humanity.
Now it is characteristic of such things that they are prepared long in advance. Ahrimanic powers prepare the evolution of mankind in such a way that it can fall a prey to Ahriman when he appears in human form within Western civilization - hardly then to be called "civilization" in our sense - as once Lucifer appeared in human form in China, as once Christ appeared in human form in Asia Minor. It is of no avail to give oneself illusions today about these things. Ahriman will appear in human form and the only question is, how will he find humanity prepared."
There's a link there but it doesn't work, but I found this other link (lucky you!) http://www.doyletics.com/arj/tadrvw.htm which will put you on a collision course with wackiness. Since Steiner wrote this masterpiece in 1919 I'm guessing the injection of Ahriman into computers happened later, tricky devil, with the help of some other brilliant prophet.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That seems to be a Waldorf thing based on some writing by Rudolf Steiner. (no surprise there) I found this:
http://www.openwaldorf.com/media.html
If you scroll down a bit you'll find a section titled "Ahriman and Television" and an excerpt from Rudolf Steiner's "The Ahrimanic Deception."
"...the Ahrimanic influence has been at work since the middle of the fifteenth century and will increase in strength until and actual incarnation of Ahriman takes place among Western humanity.
Now it is characteristic of such things that they are prepared long in advance. Ahrimanic powers prepare the evolution of mankind in such a way that it can fall a prey to Ahriman when he appears in human form within Western civilization - hardly then to be called "civilization" in our sense - as once Lucifer appeared in human form in China, as once Christ appeared in human form in Asia Minor. It is of no avail to give oneself illusions today about these things. Ahriman will appear in human form and the only question is, how will he find humanity prepared."
There's a link there but it doesn't work, but I found this other link (lucky you!) http://www.doyletics.com/arj/tadrvw.htm which will put you on a collision course with wackiness. Since Steiner wrote this masterpiece in 1919 I'm guessing the injection of Ahriman into computers happened later, tricky devil, with the help of some other brilliant prophet.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Colleen
*****But even more insane, are their parents asking "experts" (Waldorf
teachers?) whether it's okay if a child watches a home video of her
cousin, or talks to her grandmother on a cellphone, or listens to music
IN A STORE?*****
When my son was 2, we tried a "Mom and Me" program at our local
Waldorf school. We lasted exactly one meeting before we became
Waldorf-school dropouts :-) We hadn't realized when we enrolled how
very restrictive some of their ideas and policies are once we
realized, we knew it wasn't for us at ALL.
This is an excerpt from their media policy (as set forth in their parent
handbook). Thought folks might find it interesting
"The debilitating effects of media on children's developing
capacities are increasingly apparent to us, and are well documented by
independent researchers. By "media" we mean the full array of
visual and aural electronic devices, including, but not limited to
videos, DVDs, video games, CD walkman units, computers, computer games,
television and radio. Of equal concern are large-screen movies, whether
in the theater or at home. We fully recognize the prevalence of media in
our culture and the need that many adults have for this in their
vocation and leisure time. We must also recognize, however, that the
adult has the ability to absorb and consciously process these
experiences. This a child cannot yet do.
"We find that Waldorf Education works best with children who experience
little or no media at all. We strongly urge the elimination of all media
in the kindergarten through fifth grade, and ideally through eighth
grade. The teachers of these grades will provide recommendations about
how to carry this out and develop alternate activities for the children.
As the children get older, it may be increasingly difficult to protect
them completely from media exposure: their experiences become more
varied and the influence of the peer culture strengthens. We will work
with parents to bring some of the forms of media to the older students
in a healthy way, to educate them in being knowledgeable, productive,
and discerning users of media in our world.
"When children are actively and imaginatively engaged with the natural
world, they experience the joy of their own energy. Their energy soon
becomes will power, self-discipline and ultimately, self-direction. With
a will, they apply themselves to all artistic endeavors-the music that
soothes the soul, the painting that nourishes it, or the drawing that
enlivens it. They apply themselves equally to the precise observation so
essential to middle school sciences and mathematics, and the habit of
clear thinking in all academics. Children's thinking also becomes
mobile and imaginative: their capacity for living vividly into the
stories and biographies they hear becomes the capacity of empathy for
their fellow humans in adulthood. As adults too, they become
independent, creative individuals, feeling at home in the world. Seen in
this light, it is not so much a matter of avoiding media, as it is one
of simply allowing the natural capacities of children to unfold.
"Some children are highly sensitive to media influence and cannot leave
it at home, but bring it into the classroom in their play. This in turns
changes the nature of the play for many children in the class, rather
than out of their own inner needs they re-enact the disturbing or
violent images they have seen or heard about. Should this become a
recurring problem, the classroom teacher may call for a parent
conference. If the situation does not reach a resolution the family may
be asked to leave the class as a last resort."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
teachers?) whether it's okay if a child watches a home video of her
cousin, or talks to her grandmother on a cellphone, or listens to music
IN A STORE?*****
When my son was 2, we tried a "Mom and Me" program at our local
Waldorf school. We lasted exactly one meeting before we became
Waldorf-school dropouts :-) We hadn't realized when we enrolled how
very restrictive some of their ideas and policies are once we
realized, we knew it wasn't for us at ALL.
This is an excerpt from their media policy (as set forth in their parent
handbook). Thought folks might find it interesting
"The debilitating effects of media on children's developing
capacities are increasingly apparent to us, and are well documented by
independent researchers. By "media" we mean the full array of
visual and aural electronic devices, including, but not limited to
videos, DVDs, video games, CD walkman units, computers, computer games,
television and radio. Of equal concern are large-screen movies, whether
in the theater or at home. We fully recognize the prevalence of media in
our culture and the need that many adults have for this in their
vocation and leisure time. We must also recognize, however, that the
adult has the ability to absorb and consciously process these
experiences. This a child cannot yet do.
"We find that Waldorf Education works best with children who experience
little or no media at all. We strongly urge the elimination of all media
in the kindergarten through fifth grade, and ideally through eighth
grade. The teachers of these grades will provide recommendations about
how to carry this out and develop alternate activities for the children.
As the children get older, it may be increasingly difficult to protect
them completely from media exposure: their experiences become more
varied and the influence of the peer culture strengthens. We will work
with parents to bring some of the forms of media to the older students
in a healthy way, to educate them in being knowledgeable, productive,
and discerning users of media in our world.
"When children are actively and imaginatively engaged with the natural
world, they experience the joy of their own energy. Their energy soon
becomes will power, self-discipline and ultimately, self-direction. With
a will, they apply themselves to all artistic endeavors-the music that
soothes the soul, the painting that nourishes it, or the drawing that
enlivens it. They apply themselves equally to the precise observation so
essential to middle school sciences and mathematics, and the habit of
clear thinking in all academics. Children's thinking also becomes
mobile and imaginative: their capacity for living vividly into the
stories and biographies they hear becomes the capacity of empathy for
their fellow humans in adulthood. As adults too, they become
independent, creative individuals, feeling at home in the world. Seen in
this light, it is not so much a matter of avoiding media, as it is one
of simply allowing the natural capacities of children to unfold.
"Some children are highly sensitive to media influence and cannot leave
it at home, but bring it into the classroom in their play. This in turns
changes the nature of the play for many children in the class, rather
than out of their own inner needs they re-enact the disturbing or
violent images they have seen or heard about. Should this become a
recurring problem, the classroom teacher may call for a parent
conference. If the situation does not reach a resolution the family may
be asked to leave the class as a last resort."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lylaw
oh yes – and root vegetables are “from the devil” as well (grow underground) and are to be avoided/limited, especially for kids struggling with certain “issues” according to the waldorf philosophy. in addition, my friend’s son who asked how electricity worked at age 7 was told the fairies in the wall made it work.
lyla
from these also? I had actually not heard/read that before (and I have read
quite a bit of Steiner's work); maybe I missed/overlooked it.
Anyhow, devils or no devils, we won't be participating is tv turn off week :-)
Lisa B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lyla
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>===========I wonder if devils come
from these also? I had actually not heard/read that before (and I have read
quite a bit of Steiner's work); maybe I missed/overlooked it.
Anyhow, devils or no devils, we won't be participating is tv turn off week :-)
Lisa B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dapsign
> "TV Turnoff Week is April 18-24. To help you unplug the electronics and plug in to your family, Chinaberry offers outstanding toys, books, and family activities. May we all discover the rewards of a TV-free lifestyle this week!"Fascinating since here in NYC the dates mentioned are Spring Break for kids in public school.
> But even more insane, are their parents asking "experts" (Waldorf teachers?) whether it's okay if a child watches a home video of her cousin, or talks to her grandmother on a cellphone, or listens to music IN A STORE?Probably. I read a story a couple of years ago on a local parenting list where many of the parents believe TV is evil (a lot go to a Waldorf school) that the parents get calls from the school about how many hours a child is watching TV. The teacher claimed she could tell that the child had been watching TV by things he was saying in school and that meant the parents were violating the agreement they had with the school. The school would basically tell the parents what the child could and couldn't do during off school hours and while at home.
Dina
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
dapsign
The teacher was very adamant that a young
Don't forget that kids aren't supposed to learn to read until they have adult teeth because they're not developmentally ready until then. I have a friend that has bought into this idea and does a lot to keep any printed word from her kids.
Dina
> child should never see the world through a camera lens as it disrupts theirNot related to TV but...
> natural development, awakening the child too early. The teacher was also,
> according to my friend, opposed to young children using black colored crayons,
> and never ever markers, pens or pencils of any color.
Don't forget that kids aren't supposed to learn to read until they have adult teeth because they're not developmentally ready until then. I have a friend that has bought into this idea and does a lot to keep any printed word from her kids.
Dina
Robin Bentley
> Children's thinking also becomesI wonder what statistics or even anecdotal evidence they have to back
> mobile and imaginative: their capacity for living vividly into the
> stories and biographies they hear becomes the capacity of empathy for
> their fellow humans in adulthood. As adults too, they become
> independent, creative individuals, feeling at home in the world.
this up? With our discussions recently on the chat about teenaged/
adult unschoolers and how they move comfortably in the world, I'd like
to see what the Waldorf-educated look like.
> Should this become aJust another way to control and coerce people into parting with their
> recurring problem, the classroom teacher may call for a parent
> conference. If the situation does not reach a resolution the family
> may
> be asked to leave the class as a last resort."
>
money to follow some dead guy's wackitude (with feature-less cloth
dolls, yellow crayons, and wooden toys) to have a once-upon-a-time
life that never really existed.
Robin B.
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
Michelle
Wife to Bob
Momma to George (12 1/2), Theo (9), Eli (6), and Oliver (20 mo)
If my life wasn't funny, it would just be true, and that's unacceptable.
-- Carrie Fisher
>From: Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@...>With our discussions recently on the chat about teenaged/
>adult unschoolers and how they move comfortably in the world, I'd likeI'm sure they'd look fine, unless confronted with unexpected plastic.
>to see what the Waldorf-educated look like.
>
Michelle
Wife to Bob
Momma to George (12 1/2), Theo (9), Eli (6), and Oliver (20 mo)
If my life wasn't funny, it would just be true, and that's unacceptable.
-- Carrie Fisher
Sandra Dodd
-=-As the children get older, it may be increasingly difficult to protect
them completely from media exposure: their experiences become more
varied and the influence of the peer culture strengthens.-=-
Protect them.
Maybe not completely.
But their intent is to protect them completely.
-=-...their experiences become more
varied and the influence of the peer culture strengthens.-=--=-
"The influence of the peer culture strenghtens" because the child gets older and WANTS and needs to BE a part of the world outside his or her own little family (or own little classroom/school).
-=-Their energy soon becomes will power, self-discipline and ultimately, self-direction. -=-
But until that time, they will be directed by the Waldorf school. Twenty-four hours a day. Their parents will be, too.
-=. Children's thinking also becomes
mobile and imaginative: their capacity for living vividly into the
stories and biographies they hear becomes the capacity of empathy for
their fellow humans in adulthood.-=-
That one didn't even make sense. They "live vividly" into a story? It doesn't make grammatical sense.
Their thinking *becomes* imaginative?
What on earth would it be that their thinking also becomes "mobile"?
The emperor's new clothes. If they use mysterious and hoity-sounding phrases, parents will not mind so much giving them cash, and changing their own lives. If they started right off talking about "the Ahrimanic influence," they might not be making so much money.
After years of occasional "I'll show you my crazy Waldorf story if you'll show me yours," I had never yet run across "Ahriman." I'm guessing he's not the only spook in their closet.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
them completely from media exposure: their experiences become more
varied and the influence of the peer culture strengthens.-=-
Protect them.
Maybe not completely.
But their intent is to protect them completely.
-=-...their experiences become more
varied and the influence of the peer culture strengthens.-=--=-
"The influence of the peer culture strenghtens" because the child gets older and WANTS and needs to BE a part of the world outside his or her own little family (or own little classroom/school).
-=-Their energy soon becomes will power, self-discipline and ultimately, self-direction. -=-
But until that time, they will be directed by the Waldorf school. Twenty-four hours a day. Their parents will be, too.
-=. Children's thinking also becomes
mobile and imaginative: their capacity for living vividly into the
stories and biographies they hear becomes the capacity of empathy for
their fellow humans in adulthood.-=-
That one didn't even make sense. They "live vividly" into a story? It doesn't make grammatical sense.
Their thinking *becomes* imaginative?
What on earth would it be that their thinking also becomes "mobile"?
The emperor's new clothes. If they use mysterious and hoity-sounding phrases, parents will not mind so much giving them cash, and changing their own lives. If they started right off talking about "the Ahrimanic influence," they might not be making so much money.
After years of occasional "I'll show you my crazy Waldorf story if you'll show me yours," I had never yet run across "Ahriman." I'm guessing he's not the only spook in their closet.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=oh yes � and root vegetables are �from the devil� as well (grow underground) and are to be avoided/limited, especially for kids struggling with certain �issues� according to the waldorf philosophy.-=-
Well I can't have any part of a religion that doesn't support the eating of potatoes.
And they are, in some places, taking government money as charter schools.
Maybe I should organize a potato-centric alternative school. I would require that parents have as many screens in the house as people, and watch at least two hilarious movies or TV re-runs per week, as a family. We could have TV Turn-On Week! If I found a child who didn't understand basic references to popular culture, I would call for a parent conference, a la this:
-=-Should this become a
recurring problem, the classroom teacher may call for a parent
conference. If the situation does not reach a resolution the family may
be asked to leave the class as a last resort."-=-
Resort! Yeah. If they won't watch TV together, I would require that they go to a resort, as a family. Good idea!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Well I can't have any part of a religion that doesn't support the eating of potatoes.
And they are, in some places, taking government money as charter schools.
Maybe I should organize a potato-centric alternative school. I would require that parents have as many screens in the house as people, and watch at least two hilarious movies or TV re-runs per week, as a family. We could have TV Turn-On Week! If I found a child who didn't understand basic references to popular culture, I would call for a parent conference, a la this:
-=-Should this become a
recurring problem, the classroom teacher may call for a parent
conference. If the situation does not reach a resolution the family may
be asked to leave the class as a last resort."-=-
Resort! Yeah. If they won't watch TV together, I would require that they go to a resort, as a family. Good idea!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-As adults too, they become
this up? With our discussions recently on the chat about teenaged/
adult unschoolers and how they move comfortably in the world, I'd like
to see what the Waldorf-educated look like.-=-
NO kidding!
My kids have felt "at home in the world" their whole lives.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> independent, creative individuals, feeling at home in the world.-=-I wonder what statistics or even anecdotal evidence they have to back
this up? With our discussions recently on the chat about teenaged/
adult unschoolers and how they move comfortably in the world, I'd like
to see what the Waldorf-educated look like.-=-
NO kidding!
My kids have felt "at home in the world" their whole lives.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I'm sure they'd look fine, unless confronted with unexpected plastic.-=-
Oooooh.... Plastic figurines of Ahriman. Watching TV.
Here would be how to ferret out hypocritical Waldorf teachers. Wander through singing casually
Ahriman, Ahriman,
Does whatever a spider can (or "con," to rhyme better)
(or whatever, but to the spiderman tune)
and if any of the teachers laugh, BUSTED. If they are offended, even worse.
No sense of humor? I'd take my kids RIGHT home.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Oooooh.... Plastic figurines of Ahriman. Watching TV.
Here would be how to ferret out hypocritical Waldorf teachers. Wander through singing casually
Ahriman, Ahriman,
Does whatever a spider can (or "con," to rhyme better)
(or whatever, but to the spiderman tune)
and if any of the teachers laugh, BUSTED. If they are offended, even worse.
No sense of humor? I'd take my kids RIGHT home.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Josh Moll
My daughter went to a Waldorf kindergarten for a couple of months. We choose that school because in the Netherlands homeschool is a very difficult option (only 330 children get it) and it was the school where there was the most outside play (my daughter loves to be outside). She loved to paint, draw etc , but within two months she stopped painting and drawing. I didn't notice it so much but when I asked her on a rainy sunday if we could paint together she said: I can't paint because I'm not yet 5 years old. In the school they allowed children only to use paint when they were 5, starting with only yellow. It made me so angry, it took her more than half a year to start painting again.
Greetings, Josh
http://thuisschool.wordpress.com/
Greetings, Josh
http://thuisschool.wordpress.com/
>________________________________[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
>To: [email protected]
>Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 5:21 AM
>Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: TV Turnoff
>
>
>
>-=-As the children get older, it may be increasingly difficult to protect
>them completely from media exposure: their experiences become more
>varied and the influence of the peer culture strengthens.-=-
>
>Protect them.
>Maybe not completely.
>But their intent is to protect them completely.
>
>-=-...their experiences become more
>varied and the influence of the peer culture strengthens.-=--=-
>
>"The influence of the peer culture strenghtens" because the child gets older and WANTS and needs to BE a part of the world outside his or her own little family (or own little classroom/school).
>
>-=-Their energy soon becomes will power, self-discipline and ultimately, self-direction. -=-
>
>But until that time, they will be directed by the Waldorf school. Twenty-four hours a day. Their parents will be, too.
>
>-=. Children's thinking also becomes
>mobile and imaginative: their capacity for living vividly into the
>stories and biographies they hear becomes the capacity of empathy for
>their fellow humans in adulthood.-=-
>
>That one didn't even make sense. They "live vividly" into a story? It doesn't make grammatical sense.
>
>Their thinking *becomes* imaginative?
>What on earth would it be that their thinking also becomes "mobile"?
>
>The emperor's new clothes. If they use mysterious and hoity-sounding phrases, parents will not mind so much giving them cash, and changing their own lives. If they started right off talking about "the Ahrimanic influence," they might not be making so much money.
>
>After years of occasional "I'll show you my crazy Waldorf story if you'll show me yours," I had never yet run across "Ahriman." I'm guessing he's not the only spook in their closet.
>
>Sandra
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
Schuyler
Apparently you aren't supposed to mention Ahriman early on, according to the
link that Deb sent (http://www.doyletics.com/arj/tadrvw.htm). You are supposed
to go through the three stages first and then you get to Ahriman.
""Why don't you just tell them the truth?" some well-meaning person might ask.
Steiner minces no words when he answers that question.
[page 7] People nowadays flee the truth, and one cannot give it to them in an
unvarnished form because they would ridicule it and scoff and jeer. But if one
gives it to them through the "Threefold Social Organism" as one now tries to do,
then they will not have it either — not the majority, at any rate. The fact that
people reject these things is just one of the means which the Ahrimanic powers
can use and which will give Ahriman the greatest possible following when he
appears in human form on earth."
It reminds me of a piece in the New Yorker about Paul Haggis, a Scientologist
apostate. It's a very long article, the bit I'm thinking about is this:
"“The process of induction is so long and slow that you really do convince
yourself of the truth of some of these things that don’t make sense,” Haggis
told me. Although he refused to specify the contents of O.T. materials, on the
ground that it offended Scientologists, he said, “If they’d sprung this stuff
on me when I first walked in the door, I just would have laughed and left right
away.” But by the time Haggis approached the O.T. III material he’d already
been through several years of auditing. His wife was deeply involved in the
church, as was his sister Kathy. Moreover, his first writing jobs had come
through Scientology connections. He was now entrenched in the community.
Success stories in the Scientology magazine Advance! added an aura of reality
to the church’s claims. Haggis admits, “I was looking forward to enhanced
abilities.” Moreover, he had invested a lot of money in the program. The
incentive to believe was high."
Read more
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/02/14/110214fa_fact_wright#ixzz1Jlkbzakj
Maybe that's part of why Waldorf keeps media from children, to make them more
committed to believing than they might otherwise be. It seems to me that any
system that is about closing avenues of information is about limiting critical
thinking.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
The emperor's new clothes. If they use mysterious and hoity-sounding phrases,
parents will not mind so much giving them cash, and changing their own lives.
If they started right off talking about "the Ahrimanic influence," they might
not be making so much money.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
link that Deb sent (http://www.doyletics.com/arj/tadrvw.htm). You are supposed
to go through the three stages first and then you get to Ahriman.
""Why don't you just tell them the truth?" some well-meaning person might ask.
Steiner minces no words when he answers that question.
[page 7] People nowadays flee the truth, and one cannot give it to them in an
unvarnished form because they would ridicule it and scoff and jeer. But if one
gives it to them through the "Threefold Social Organism" as one now tries to do,
then they will not have it either — not the majority, at any rate. The fact that
people reject these things is just one of the means which the Ahrimanic powers
can use and which will give Ahriman the greatest possible following when he
appears in human form on earth."
It reminds me of a piece in the New Yorker about Paul Haggis, a Scientologist
apostate. It's a very long article, the bit I'm thinking about is this:
"“The process of induction is so long and slow that you really do convince
yourself of the truth of some of these things that don’t make sense,” Haggis
told me. Although he refused to specify the contents of O.T. materials, on the
ground that it offended Scientologists, he said, “If they’d sprung this stuff
on me when I first walked in the door, I just would have laughed and left right
away.” But by the time Haggis approached the O.T. III material he’d already
been through several years of auditing. His wife was deeply involved in the
church, as was his sister Kathy. Moreover, his first writing jobs had come
through Scientology connections. He was now entrenched in the community.
Success stories in the Scientology magazine Advance! added an aura of reality
to the church’s claims. Haggis admits, “I was looking forward to enhanced
abilities.” Moreover, he had invested a lot of money in the program. The
incentive to believe was high."
Read more
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/02/14/110214fa_fact_wright#ixzz1Jlkbzakj
Maybe that's part of why Waldorf keeps media from children, to make them more
committed to believing than they might otherwise be. It seems to me that any
system that is about closing avenues of information is about limiting critical
thinking.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
The emperor's new clothes. If they use mysterious and hoity-sounding phrases,
parents will not mind so much giving them cash, and changing their own lives.
If they started right off talking about "the Ahrimanic influence," they might
not be making so much money.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
Apparently potatoes have the highest satiety of staples, bread and rice and
cereal and potatoes (obviously). They keep you full for longest and they
increase your serotonin levels. Just researching this e-mail I found a book
called Potatoes not Prozac. I'm happy to eat my underground evilness, happier,
even.
Schuyler
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
Well I can't have any part of a religion that doesn't support the eating of
potatoes.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cereal and potatoes (obviously). They keep you full for longest and they
increase your serotonin levels. Just researching this e-mail I found a book
called Potatoes not Prozac. I'm happy to eat my underground evilness, happier,
even.
Schuyler
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
Well I can't have any part of a religion that doesn't support the eating of
potatoes.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-. Just researching this e-mail I found a book
called Potatoes not Prozac. I'm happy to eat my underground evilness, happier,
even. -=-
I have that book. Some days I have taken prozac AND potatoes. :-)
Every two or three years I have a bout of depression. I'm glad it's not more often than that. It's probably that it WOULD be more often than that, if I weren't involved daily in a focus on fun, joy and playfulness.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
called Potatoes not Prozac. I'm happy to eat my underground evilness, happier,
even. -=-
I have that book. Some days I have taken prozac AND potatoes. :-)
Every two or three years I have a bout of depression. I'm glad it's not more often than that. It's probably that it WOULD be more often than that, if I weren't involved daily in a focus on fun, joy and playfulness.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
semajrak
> Oooooh.... Plastic figurines of Ahriman. Watching TV.When Ethan was smaller, I was worried about plastic, media, sugar...all the "evils." I even visited a Waldorf school, thinking it would be a good fit for Ethan. Being an artist, their approach to creativity gave me the creeps, and so it was no longer an option. Thankfully, I learned about unschooling, and began broadening our horizons, instead of limiting them.
>
> Here would be how to ferret out hypocritical Waldorf teachers. Wander through singing casually
> Ahriman, Ahriman,
> Does whatever a spider can (or "con," to rhyme better)
> (or whatever, but to the spiderman tune)
> and if any of the teachers laugh, BUSTED. If they are offended, even worse.
> No sense of humor? I'd take my kids RIGHT home.
>
> Sandra
>
Recently, a friend of mine sent me this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7v3O746w4E
I had a good laugh at myself :)
Karen.
Sandra Dodd
-=-Recently, a friend of mine sent me this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7v3O746w4E
I had a good laugh at myself :)-=-
OH MY GOSH!!
There's a webpage.
Holly and I have been laughing and laughing.
But before anyone goes there, it would be good to watch this very brief video. (Beethoven didn't listen to Beethoven as an infant. There's a paradox for you.)
21 seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pOFrV2gh6Ro
Here's their whole website, which has both videos and other professional German-engineering advice.
http://www.cubeofwood.com
"...what your child needs" reminds me of the common knowledge in the movie Idiocracy that Brondo has what plants crave.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7v3O746w4E
I had a good laugh at myself :)-=-
OH MY GOSH!!
There's a webpage.
Holly and I have been laughing and laughing.
But before anyone goes there, it would be good to watch this very brief video. (Beethoven didn't listen to Beethoven as an infant. There's a paradox for you.)
21 seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pOFrV2gh6Ro
Here's their whole website, which has both videos and other professional German-engineering advice.
http://www.cubeofwood.com
"...what your child needs" reminds me of the common knowledge in the movie Idiocracy that Brondo has what plants crave.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
chris ester
Carrots must be the most evil because they can look like horns if you hold
them right!!!
Couldn't resist...
Chris
them right!!!
Couldn't resist...
Chris
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 5:09 AM, Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>wrote:
>
>
> Apparently potatoes have the highest satiety of staples, bread and rice and
>
> cereal and potatoes (obviously). They keep you full for longest and they
> increase your serotonin levels. Just researching this e-mail I found a book
>
> called Potatoes not Prozac. I'm happy to eat my underground evilness,
> happier,
> even.
>
> Schuyler
>
> From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
>
> Well I can't have any part of a religion that doesn't support the eating of
>
> potatoes.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
renee_cabatic
I pulled this sentence off the webpage:
*If Cube of Wood is introduced within the first 8 months, your child should (statistically speaking) have no trouble finding gainful employment by the age of 16.*
I'm sold! Unfortunately my kids are 10 years old so I missed the optimal window for Cube of Wood.....
Thanks for the laugh!
Renee
*If Cube of Wood is introduced within the first 8 months, your child should (statistically speaking) have no trouble finding gainful employment by the age of 16.*
I'm sold! Unfortunately my kids are 10 years old so I missed the optimal window for Cube of Wood.....
Thanks for the laugh!
Renee