A daily retreat of pure unschooling
Joyce Fetteroll
I wrote this in response to an offlist email. Every once in a while
Sandra gets accused of limiting people's thoughts when an idea is
turned away or pointed out as not unschooling enough.
Limiting is good because it keeps the list focused which means less to
wade through. (That's important.) And Always Learning doesn't deny
people the right to search beyond the list. ;-)
While practical, it felt there was something more important those
explanations didn't get at. So maybe this helps. Or maybe it just
helps me see it better ;-)
============
Think of the list as like a Zen center. It's a place where people
interested in learning Zen can shut off *for a short time* everything
else they know and immerse themselves in an atmosphere that's pure Zen
in order to become better at Zen practices. For the hour or so that
they're at the center, they can live and breathe Zen. At first their
practice won't be very good. But because the atmosphere is
deliberately limited to Zen, they'll find it easier and easier to let
go of thoughts and habits that aren't Zen. They'll find it easier and
easier to make Zen choices.
The goal of the deliberately limited world of the Zen center is not to
become people's entire world. It is deliberately, purposely limited
and *offered* as a temporary retreat that people can *choose* to visit
to grow their new understanding.
But bringing non-Zen ideas into the center destroys the Zen space.
People don't need another non-Zen place to practice Zen. They already
have the non-Zen world they will return to when they leave the center.
I do understand that you believe what you offered is compatible with
unschooling, that an unschooler can use it in unschooling ways.
Well, a great variety of conventional things can be used by
unschoolers in unschooling ways. But before someone fully grasps
unschooling, they not only can't use them in unschooling ways, but
offering these things as unschooling tools will create a tangled knot
in their growing understanding.
An example would be: Some always unschooled kids enjoy workbooks.
There's no unschooling "rule" against kids using workbooks. But until
someone grasps how learning happens through living, it will be a huge
help to a new person's growing understanding to avoid workbooks. The
workbooks will hamper their seeing how much better the chaos of
natural learning is. People suggesting workbooks will hamper their
understanding. They'll keep looking at natural learning through school
colored glasses.
The Always Learning list is a "Zen center" for unschooling. It's a
place to retreat from seeing certain conventional solutions as a first
choice. It's a place to experience pure unschooling thinking in
action. It's a place to see what "supporting a child's explorations as
a way for the child to grow his own understanding of himself and the
world" looks like when it becomes one of the primary tools for living
with kids.
Until someone has had loads of opportunities to exclusively see
unschooling in practice and then try out and finally trust the
unschooling principles, they won't be able to see experts as tools.
They can only see experts as people better equipped than "just" a mom
to tackle a child's problem.
Joyce
Sandra gets accused of limiting people's thoughts when an idea is
turned away or pointed out as not unschooling enough.
Limiting is good because it keeps the list focused which means less to
wade through. (That's important.) And Always Learning doesn't deny
people the right to search beyond the list. ;-)
While practical, it felt there was something more important those
explanations didn't get at. So maybe this helps. Or maybe it just
helps me see it better ;-)
============
Think of the list as like a Zen center. It's a place where people
interested in learning Zen can shut off *for a short time* everything
else they know and immerse themselves in an atmosphere that's pure Zen
in order to become better at Zen practices. For the hour or so that
they're at the center, they can live and breathe Zen. At first their
practice won't be very good. But because the atmosphere is
deliberately limited to Zen, they'll find it easier and easier to let
go of thoughts and habits that aren't Zen. They'll find it easier and
easier to make Zen choices.
The goal of the deliberately limited world of the Zen center is not to
become people's entire world. It is deliberately, purposely limited
and *offered* as a temporary retreat that people can *choose* to visit
to grow their new understanding.
But bringing non-Zen ideas into the center destroys the Zen space.
People don't need another non-Zen place to practice Zen. They already
have the non-Zen world they will return to when they leave the center.
I do understand that you believe what you offered is compatible with
unschooling, that an unschooler can use it in unschooling ways.
Well, a great variety of conventional things can be used by
unschoolers in unschooling ways. But before someone fully grasps
unschooling, they not only can't use them in unschooling ways, but
offering these things as unschooling tools will create a tangled knot
in their growing understanding.
An example would be: Some always unschooled kids enjoy workbooks.
There's no unschooling "rule" against kids using workbooks. But until
someone grasps how learning happens through living, it will be a huge
help to a new person's growing understanding to avoid workbooks. The
workbooks will hamper their seeing how much better the chaos of
natural learning is. People suggesting workbooks will hamper their
understanding. They'll keep looking at natural learning through school
colored glasses.
The Always Learning list is a "Zen center" for unschooling. It's a
place to retreat from seeing certain conventional solutions as a first
choice. It's a place to experience pure unschooling thinking in
action. It's a place to see what "supporting a child's explorations as
a way for the child to grow his own understanding of himself and the
world" looks like when it becomes one of the primary tools for living
with kids.
Until someone has had loads of opportunities to exclusively see
unschooling in practice and then try out and finally trust the
unschooling principles, they won't be able to see experts as tools.
They can only see experts as people better equipped than "just" a mom
to tackle a child's problem.
Joyce
k
Joyce I think this is very clear and I hope it will end up on a
webpage or somewhere similar because I'm sure it would be helpful to
repeat this in the future at times.
~Katherine
webpage or somewhere similar because I'm sure it would be helpful to
repeat this in the future at times.
~Katherine
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 1:52 PM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
> I wrote this in response to an offlist email. Every once in a while
> Sandra gets accused of limiting people's thoughts when an idea is
> turned away or pointed out as not unschooling enough.
>
> Limiting is good because it keeps the list focused which means less to
> wade through. (That's important.) And Always Learning doesn't deny
> people the right to search beyond the list. ;-)
>
> While practical, it felt there was something more important those
> explanations didn't get at. So maybe this helps. Or maybe it just
> helps me see it better ;-)
>
> ============
>
> Think of the list as like a Zen center. It's a place where people
> interested in learning Zen can shut off *for a short time* everything
> else they know and immerse themselves in an atmosphere that's pure Zen
> in order to become better at Zen practices. For the hour or so that
> they're at the center, they can live and breathe Zen. At first their
> practice won't be very good. But because the atmosphere is
> deliberately limited to Zen, they'll find it easier and easier to let
> go of thoughts and habits that aren't Zen. They'll find it easier and
> easier to make Zen choices.
>
> The goal of the deliberately limited world of the Zen center is not to
> become people's entire world. It is deliberately, purposely limited
> and *offered* as a temporary retreat that people can *choose* to visit
> to grow their new understanding.
>
> But bringing non-Zen ideas into the center destroys the Zen space.
> People don't need another non-Zen place to practice Zen. They already
> have the non-Zen world they will return to when they leave the center.
>
> I do understand that you believe what you offered is compatible with
> unschooling, that an unschooler can use it in unschooling ways.
>
> Well, a great variety of conventional things can be used by
> unschoolers in unschooling ways. But before someone fully grasps
> unschooling, they not only can't use them in unschooling ways, but
> offering these things as unschooling tools will create a tangled knot
> in their growing understanding.
>
> An example would be: Some always unschooled kids enjoy workbooks.
> There's no unschooling "rule" against kids using workbooks. But until
> someone grasps how learning happens through living, it will be a huge
> help to a new person's growing understanding to avoid workbooks. The
> workbooks will hamper their seeing how much better the chaos of
> natural learning is. People suggesting workbooks will hamper their
> understanding. They'll keep looking at natural learning through school
> colored glasses.
>
> The Always Learning list is a "Zen center" for unschooling. It's a
> place to retreat from seeing certain conventional solutions as a first
> choice. It's a place to experience pure unschooling thinking in
> action. It's a place to see what "supporting a child's explorations as
> a way for the child to grow his own understanding of himself and the
> world" looks like when it becomes one of the primary tools for living
> with kids.
>
> Until someone has had loads of opportunities to exclusively see
> unschooling in practice and then try out and finally trust the
> unschooling principles, they won't be able to see experts as tools.
> They can only see experts as people better equipped than "just" a mom
> to tackle a child's problem.
>
> Joyce
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Pam Sorooshian
I liked all of what Joyce wrote - nice comparison. The only quibble I
would have is that people go to a Zen center to practice Zen, but this
list is to talk about unschooling, not practice it.
"using" a Sudoku book or "using" a crossword puzzle. We'd saying
"doing," maybe. And, as I thought about it, I realized that my kids
would never have said "using," they'd have more likely saying "playing
with." But - as I thought about it more - I don't think my kids knew to
call a workbook a workbook. Rosie had a lot of them - she liked them.
But she called each of them by their title or used a description. She
didn't even recognize that there was a whole category known as
"workbooks," until she was probably 10 or so. She probably just thought
of them as another kind of book.
-pam
would have is that people go to a Zen center to practice Zen, but this
list is to talk about unschooling, not practice it.
> There's no unschooling "rule" against kids using workbooks.The wording struck me funny, to say "using" workbooks. We wouldn't say
"using" a Sudoku book or "using" a crossword puzzle. We'd saying
"doing," maybe. And, as I thought about it, I realized that my kids
would never have said "using," they'd have more likely saying "playing
with." But - as I thought about it more - I don't think my kids knew to
call a workbook a workbook. Rosie had a lot of them - she liked them.
But she called each of them by their title or used a description. She
didn't even recognize that there was a whole category known as
"workbooks," until she was probably 10 or so. She probably just thought
of them as another kind of book.
-pam
dola dasgupta-banerji
Talking of Zen center is a really a cool way to explain this. The center is
very important. Once one takes care of the center and cleanses it of all
'clutter', the right periphery also settles. It is a patient process. To get
stuck at the periphery can never bring about noticeable and significant
transformation. Simply because the periphery is never in control. But to
control the center is absolutely possible though tough and surely and
certainly the only door to transformation.
I do feel Sandra does not limit the thoughts she simply helps to de-clutter
(if there is any such word).
Dola
very important. Once one takes care of the center and cleanses it of all
'clutter', the right periphery also settles. It is a patient process. To get
stuck at the periphery can never bring about noticeable and significant
transformation. Simply because the periphery is never in control. But to
control the center is absolutely possible though tough and surely and
certainly the only door to transformation.
I do feel Sandra does not limit the thoughts she simply helps to de-clutter
(if there is any such word).
Dola
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 12:22 AM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>wrote:
>
>
> I wrote this in response to an offlist email. Every once in a while
> Sandra gets accused of limiting people's thoughts when an idea is
> turned away or pointed out as not unschooling enough.
>
> Limiting is good because it keeps the list focused which means less to
> wade through. (That's important.) And Always Learning doesn't deny
> people the right to search beyond the list. ;-)
>
> While practical, it felt there was something more important those
> explanations didn't get at. So maybe this helps. Or maybe it just
> helps me see it better ;-)
>
> ============
>
> Think of the list as like a Zen center. It's a place where people
> interested in learning Zen can shut off *for a short time* everything
> else they know and immerse themselves in an atmosphere that's pure Zen
> in order to become better at Zen practices. For the hour or so that
> they're at the center, they can live and breathe Zen. At first their
> practice won't be very good. But because the atmosphere is
> deliberately limited to Zen, they'll find it easier and easier to let
> go of thoughts and habits that aren't Zen. They'll find it easier and
> easier to make Zen choices.
>
> The goal of the deliberately limited world of the Zen center is not to
> become people's entire world. It is deliberately, purposely limited
> and *offered* as a temporary retreat that people can *choose* to visit
> to grow their new understanding.
>
> But bringing non-Zen ideas into the center destroys the Zen space.
> People don't need another non-Zen place to practice Zen. They already
> have the non-Zen world they will return to when they leave the center.
>
> I do understand that you believe what you offered is compatible with
> unschooling, that an unschooler can use it in unschooling ways.
>
> Well, a great variety of conventional things can be used by
> unschoolers in unschooling ways. But before someone fully grasps
> unschooling, they not only can't use them in unschooling ways, but
> offering these things as unschooling tools will create a tangled knot
> in their growing understanding.
>
> An example would be: Some always unschooled kids enjoy workbooks.
> There's no unschooling "rule" against kids using workbooks. But until
> someone grasps how learning happens through living, it will be a huge
> help to a new person's growing understanding to avoid workbooks. The
> workbooks will hamper their seeing how much better the chaos of
> natural learning is. People suggesting workbooks will hamper their
> understanding. They'll keep looking at natural learning through school
> colored glasses.
>
> The Always Learning list is a "Zen center" for unschooling. It's a
> place to retreat from seeing certain conventional solutions as a first
> choice. It's a place to experience pure unschooling thinking in
> action. It's a place to see what "supporting a child's explorations as
> a way for the child to grow his own understanding of himself and the
> world" looks like when it becomes one of the primary tools for living
> with kids.
>
> Until someone has had loads of opportunities to exclusively see
> unschooling in practice and then try out and finally trust the
> unschooling principles, they won't be able to see experts as tools.
> They can only see experts as people better equipped than "just" a mom
> to tackle a child's problem.
>
> Joyce
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]