Wanting to start unschooling food
llanztama
I am generally pretty relaxed about food, but only about the food that is actually in the house. I don't buy the oreo cookies that my daughter is always begging for. I have chocolate covered granola bars because I've always thought of them as a better alternative. But after thinking about it and reading on Sandra's site about food, I am not happy with the decisions I've been making regarding food.
So, now I am thinking that I would like to start unschooling food, but I don't know exactly how to start. Do I just start saying yes when they ask, or do I explain to them that I have a new way of thinking about the subject. I am pretty open to them about the choices we have made regarding school and why we do what we do. Should this be one of those things that I say "when we go shopping, tell me what you want and I will buy it."?
I never thought that I would reach the point of wanting to unschool food. But when I think about my own issues with food and the issues I think we have created for my 10 year old son, I think that I have been going about this the wrong way.
My son loves food and has an amazing sense of taste. He loves to cook and he relishes trying new things. But, he is borderline on his BMI and I have started projecting my own weight issues on to him. I realized after reading the food pages on Sandra's site, that by saying "I think that's enough, you can have some tomorrow" that I have created a situation where he is afraid of my removing something that he loves.
So, that is where I am. Any suggestions for how to make the transition would be greatly appreciated.
Lisa L-T
So, now I am thinking that I would like to start unschooling food, but I don't know exactly how to start. Do I just start saying yes when they ask, or do I explain to them that I have a new way of thinking about the subject. I am pretty open to them about the choices we have made regarding school and why we do what we do. Should this be one of those things that I say "when we go shopping, tell me what you want and I will buy it."?
I never thought that I would reach the point of wanting to unschool food. But when I think about my own issues with food and the issues I think we have created for my 10 year old son, I think that I have been going about this the wrong way.
My son loves food and has an amazing sense of taste. He loves to cook and he relishes trying new things. But, he is borderline on his BMI and I have started projecting my own weight issues on to him. I realized after reading the food pages on Sandra's site, that by saying "I think that's enough, you can have some tomorrow" that I have created a situation where he is afraid of my removing something that he loves.
So, that is where I am. Any suggestions for how to make the transition would be greatly appreciated.
Lisa L-T
k
Present a wide array of food.
http://sandradodd.com/eating/monkeyplatter
Don't think of food as good or bad. If you were shipwrecked and the only
food you could find were a surviving box of donuts, it wouldn't be junk food
but something available to eat.
Think of food as favorites your child enjoys, unfamiliar foods your child
has never tried, food of all kinds your child can share with you and others,
food you are sharing.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://sandradodd.com/eating/monkeyplatter
Don't think of food as good or bad. If you were shipwrecked and the only
food you could find were a surviving box of donuts, it wouldn't be junk food
but something available to eat.
Think of food as favorites your child enjoys, unfamiliar foods your child
has never tried, food of all kinds your child can share with you and others,
food you are sharing.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-. Do I just start saying yes when they ask, or do I explain to them that I have a new way of thinking about the subject.-=-
For starting slowly, I would just say "Okay" when they ask for another one. Or if they say "Can I have this instead?" and it's something you already have, or you're out and it's there, say "Sure, why not?"
And gradually move toward the Oreos (which she might never actually want).
-=- Should this be one of those things that I say "when we go shopping, tell me what you want and I will buy it."? -=-
Is there another thing about which you say "when we go shopping, tell me what you want and I will buy it."?
Please clarify your question there. It's intriguing.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For starting slowly, I would just say "Okay" when they ask for another one. Or if they say "Can I have this instead?" and it's something you already have, or you're out and it's there, say "Sure, why not?"
And gradually move toward the Oreos (which she might never actually want).
-=- Should this be one of those things that I say "when we go shopping, tell me what you want and I will buy it."? -=-
Is there another thing about which you say "when we go shopping, tell me what you want and I will buy it."?
Please clarify your question there. It's intriguing.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-
http://sandradodd.com/eating/monkeyplatter-=-
Something is bothering me about that monkeyplatter page. I had a photo contest and put up most of the photos. But some of them always made me wince a bit.
My own original monkey platter writing and presentation were never full of sweets or dips. They were easy to eat, bite-sized, heavy-on-the-protein (and fruit) things.
Interesting that people went past my comfort zone on that. And I let it stand for however long that's been--a couple of years. But this morning I was making a monkeyplatter for Clare and Holly, and remembered. I was thinking about asking people to bring monkey platter contributions for the Always Learning Live symposium this summer, and had that uncomfortable feeling. I don't want messy dip-bowls out on all the tables, and I don't want a bunch of marshmallow things.
So, folks. Go ahead. Comment. :-)
Having come up with the idea, how much ownership do I have?
How much influence?
Whose feelings will be hurt if I take some photos off the site?
Or should I leave them all but put a disclaimer there that it kind of defeats the purpose of getting protein into gamer kids and fruit into little kids who might not want a whole piece of fruit, if it's cut up as part of an attractive array?
Those monkeys at the Rio Grande zoo didn't have dips. They didn't have toothpicks, either. So I invite clarification of what might be my problem. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://sandradodd.com/eating/monkeyplatter-=-
Something is bothering me about that monkeyplatter page. I had a photo contest and put up most of the photos. But some of them always made me wince a bit.
My own original monkey platter writing and presentation were never full of sweets or dips. They were easy to eat, bite-sized, heavy-on-the-protein (and fruit) things.
Interesting that people went past my comfort zone on that. And I let it stand for however long that's been--a couple of years. But this morning I was making a monkeyplatter for Clare and Holly, and remembered. I was thinking about asking people to bring monkey platter contributions for the Always Learning Live symposium this summer, and had that uncomfortable feeling. I don't want messy dip-bowls out on all the tables, and I don't want a bunch of marshmallow things.
So, folks. Go ahead. Comment. :-)
Having come up with the idea, how much ownership do I have?
How much influence?
Whose feelings will be hurt if I take some photos off the site?
Or should I leave them all but put a disclaimer there that it kind of defeats the purpose of getting protein into gamer kids and fruit into little kids who might not want a whole piece of fruit, if it's cut up as part of an attractive array?
Those monkeys at the Rio Grande zoo didn't have dips. They didn't have toothpicks, either. So I invite clarification of what might be my problem. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
Get over it. Leave the pictures. (Although the pink one is a little frightening. <G> But I'm thinking maybe Valentine's or something.) But you might want to somewhere reiterate the importance of high proteins, fruits, and vegies---and of including new and unusual foods. And cute cut-outs.
One of the benefits of putting sweets/candy on the plate along with rolled/cubed meats, cheeses, nuts, fruits, and vegies is to show/see that children WILL eat other things *even with* the candy on it---and often will forego the candy when there are other interesting things available.
Dips are great with little ones who LIKE to dip---and who are more likely to try something new if it *can* be dipped or picked up with a toothpick.
Those monkeys also didn't have loving mothers to make dips and use toothpicks!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Wanting to start unschooling food
-=-
http://sandradodd.com/eating/monkeyplatter-=-
Something is bothering me about that monkeyplatter page. I had a photo contest
and put up most of the photos. But some of them always made me wince a bit.
My own original monkey platter writing and presentation were never full of
sweets or dips. They were easy to eat, bite-sized, heavy-on-the-protein (and
fruit) things.
Interesting that people went past my comfort zone on that. And I let it stand
for however long that's been--a couple of years. But this morning I was making
a monkeyplatter for Clare and Holly, and remembered. I was thinking about
asking people to bring monkey platter contributions for the Always Learning Live
symposium this summer, and had that uncomfortable feeling. I don't want messy
dip-bowls out on all the tables, and I don't want a bunch of marshmallow things.
So, folks. Go ahead. Comment. :-)
Having come up with the idea, how much ownership do I have?
How much influence?
Whose feelings will be hurt if I take some photos off the site?
Or should I leave them all but put a disclaimer there that it kind of defeats
the purpose of getting protein into gamer kids and fruit into little kids who
might not want a whole piece of fruit, if it's cut up as part of an attractive
array?
Those monkeys at the Rio Grande zoo didn't have dips. They didn't have
toothpicks, either. So I invite clarification of what might be my problem. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
One of the benefits of putting sweets/candy on the plate along with rolled/cubed meats, cheeses, nuts, fruits, and vegies is to show/see that children WILL eat other things *even with* the candy on it---and often will forego the candy when there are other interesting things available.
Dips are great with little ones who LIKE to dip---and who are more likely to try something new if it *can* be dipped or picked up with a toothpick.
Those monkeys also didn't have loving mothers to make dips and use toothpicks!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Wanting to start unschooling food
-=-
http://sandradodd.com/eating/monkeyplatter-=-
Something is bothering me about that monkeyplatter page. I had a photo contest
and put up most of the photos. But some of them always made me wince a bit.
My own original monkey platter writing and presentation were never full of
sweets or dips. They were easy to eat, bite-sized, heavy-on-the-protein (and
fruit) things.
Interesting that people went past my comfort zone on that. And I let it stand
for however long that's been--a couple of years. But this morning I was making
a monkeyplatter for Clare and Holly, and remembered. I was thinking about
asking people to bring monkey platter contributions for the Always Learning Live
symposium this summer, and had that uncomfortable feeling. I don't want messy
dip-bowls out on all the tables, and I don't want a bunch of marshmallow things.
So, folks. Go ahead. Comment. :-)
Having come up with the idea, how much ownership do I have?
How much influence?
Whose feelings will be hurt if I take some photos off the site?
Or should I leave them all but put a disclaimer there that it kind of defeats
the purpose of getting protein into gamer kids and fruit into little kids who
might not want a whole piece of fruit, if it's cut up as part of an attractive
array?
Those monkeys at the Rio Grande zoo didn't have dips. They didn't have
toothpicks, either. So I invite clarification of what might be my problem. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
I agree that candy and marshmallow on a platter gives children the chance to
decide if they prefer the taste of those to things that aren't candy or
marshmallow. When Karl discovered marshmallow, he was fascinated and then
decided he wasn't crazy about it. I'm the same way except I love
toasted/roasted marshmallow. He's choosy about his candy too and a few times
has said in the midst of candy eating "I want real food." He LUVs bubblegum
because he figured out how to blow bubbles. I put gum on platters and he
first eats other stuff most of the time. Unless he isn't particularly
hungry. He's not all that fond of toothpicks lately but he liked them for a
while and he really does like all kinds of dips. Something funny ... I
mashed up some sweet potato one day to dip carrots in and he liked that as a
novelty but it hasn't become an regular item.
~Katherine
decide if they prefer the taste of those to things that aren't candy or
marshmallow. When Karl discovered marshmallow, he was fascinated and then
decided he wasn't crazy about it. I'm the same way except I love
toasted/roasted marshmallow. He's choosy about his candy too and a few times
has said in the midst of candy eating "I want real food." He LUVs bubblegum
because he figured out how to blow bubbles. I put gum on platters and he
first eats other stuff most of the time. Unless he isn't particularly
hungry. He's not all that fond of toothpicks lately but he liked them for a
while and he really does like all kinds of dips. Something funny ... I
mashed up some sweet potato one day to dip carrots in and he liked that as a
novelty but it hasn't become an regular item.
~Katherine
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
> Get over it. Leave the pictures. (Although the pink one is a little
> frightening. <G> But I'm thinking maybe Valentine's or something.) But you
> might want to somewhere reiterate the importance of high proteins, fruits,
> and vegies---and of including new and unusual foods. And cute cut-outs.
>
>
> One of the benefits of putting sweets/candy on the plate along with
> rolled/cubed meats, cheeses, nuts, fruits, and vegies is to show/see that
> children WILL eat other things *even with* the candy on it---and often will
> forego the candy when there are other interesting things available.
>
>
> Dips are great with little ones who LIKE to dip---and who are more likely
> to try something new if it *can* be dipped or picked up with a toothpick.
>
>
> Those monkeys also didn't have loving mothers to make dips and use
> toothpicks!
>
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> "There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the
> world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne
> Williamson
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
> Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Wanting to start unschooling food
>
>
> -=-
> http://sandradodd.com/eating/monkeyplatter-=-
>
> Something is bothering me about that monkeyplatter page. I had a photo
> contest
> and put up most of the photos. But some of them always made me wince a
> bit.
>
> My own original monkey platter writing and presentation were never full of
> sweets or dips. They were easy to eat, bite-sized, heavy-on-the-protein
> (and
> fruit) things.
>
> Interesting that people went past my comfort zone on that. And I let it
> stand
> for however long that's been--a couple of years. But this morning I was
> making
> a monkeyplatter for Clare and Holly, and remembered. I was thinking about
> asking people to bring monkey platter contributions for the Always Learning
> Live
> symposium this summer, and had that uncomfortable feeling. I don't want
> messy
> dip-bowls out on all the tables, and I don't want a bunch of marshmallow
> things.
>
> So, folks. Go ahead. Comment. :-)
>
> Having come up with the idea, how much ownership do I have?
> How much influence?
> Whose feelings will be hurt if I take some photos off the site?
> Or should I leave them all but put a disclaimer there that it kind of
> defeats
> the purpose of getting protein into gamer kids and fruit into little kids
> who
> might not want a whole piece of fruit, if it's cut up as part of an
> attractive
> array?
>
> Those monkeys at the Rio Grande zoo didn't have dips. They didn't have
> toothpicks, either. So I invite clarification of what might be my problem.
> :-)
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lalow
I think when the monkey platters get too complicated, too difficult to make quickly, they are not so helpful. I typically make them when the kids are busy with something and I figure they also need to eat. But if it takes me too much time that isnt good cause they are hungry. I try to keep them not messy and with some variety. I also often end up making seperate ones for different kids cause I have fewer disagreements and squables that way. My kids eat lots of foods and lots of variety so I dont spend alot of time trying to make them tempting to eat. They will eat a square piece of cinnimon toast just a quickly as a animal shaped on with the crust cut off.
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
I think for people and kids new to a no limit diet it may be helpful to have
the candy and sweets together with the fruits, vegetables and protein bites.
I tend to only have the fruits, veggies and protein bits in the ones I make
simply because my kids
have free access to all this candy, cookies and sweets and they are easy to
grab anytime.
When they want a monkey platter ( which I call goodies plate ) they are
expecting the fruits, veggies and protein
bites that are not so easily available ( because it is not cut up and ready
like a cookie or candy is)
When people are hungry they will reach for something that is right there
available, easy and fast.
Candy, sweets and salty snacks are easy like that.
Having the monkey platters with fruits veggies and protein is more what my
kids want and what I offer.
So for us making a monkey platter is making the fruits, veggies and protein
bites as available and easy as candy, sweets and chips are.
For a family that has had limits and even told the kids they could not eat some
things it may be good to add all kinds of snacks in the platter so
kids can start to relax and see that apples can be as good or better than
things that were made off limits , "treats", sometimes even a reward!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the candy and sweets together with the fruits, vegetables and protein bites.
I tend to only have the fruits, veggies and protein bits in the ones I make
simply because my kids
have free access to all this candy, cookies and sweets and they are easy to
grab anytime.
When they want a monkey platter ( which I call goodies plate ) they are
expecting the fruits, veggies and protein
bites that are not so easily available ( because it is not cut up and ready
like a cookie or candy is)
When people are hungry they will reach for something that is right there
available, easy and fast.
Candy, sweets and salty snacks are easy like that.
Having the monkey platters with fruits veggies and protein is more what my
kids want and what I offer.
So for us making a monkey platter is making the fruits, veggies and protein
bites as available and easy as candy, sweets and chips are.
For a family that has had limits and even told the kids they could not eat some
things it may be good to add all kinds of snacks in the platter so
kids can start to relax and see that apples can be as good or better than
things that were made off limits , "treats", sometimes even a reward!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wtexans
===My own original monkey platter writing and presentation were never full of sweets or dips. They were easy to eat, bite-sized, heavy-on-the-protein (and fruit) things.===
Dips can actually be the protein source -- hummus, black bean dip, or other bean-based dips are great sources of protein, especially for kiddos who don't like meat or faux-meat products.
A fruit kabob that includes mini-marshmallows on it isn't too heavy on the non-fruit sweets, and might be an enticing, new way to present fruit.
Glenda
Dips can actually be the protein source -- hummus, black bean dip, or other bean-based dips are great sources of protein, especially for kiddos who don't like meat or faux-meat products.
A fruit kabob that includes mini-marshmallows on it isn't too heavy on the non-fruit sweets, and might be an enticing, new way to present fruit.
Glenda
Elisa
Just a question with letting go of food, we have been doing this successfully for a few months now with dd the only problem we are finding is that being on a limited income there is only so much for example fruit the other day I went to the local growers market and we bought our fruit lot's of beautiful summer fruit dd had a friend sleep over and they stayed up all night when I got up the next morning all the fruit was gone my Mum and I didn't get any.... Needless to say I was furious thinking what do I do now no more money for 2 weeks and no more fruit in the house I didn't get angry with dd I just tried talking to her about how we all share the house and everything in it which means we should all get to eat the food in it she said she would try and remember for next time but the fruit was just so nice. I got so upset I left the room before I lost is completely but then the next day I find the ice cream all gone and the chocolate sauce and again Mum and I had not had any of this I am just really struggling with this side of it I let go of the food and say you can eat what you want and so now dd eats everything without thinking about the fact that she is not the only one in the house does anyone have any ideas, DD helps me with the shopping every fortnight and we stick to our budget she realizes there is no extra money after we have bought our food until next pay day but still she dosn't get the fact that the food needs to be for everyone.
Elisa
-----
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elisa
-----
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wtexans
===Should this be one of those things that I say "when we go shopping, tell me what you want and I will buy it."?===
I usually go grocery shopping by myself, and ask both my husband and kiddo before I go if there's anything special they want me to pick up. They both usually have a request or two, and I make sure to get enough of those things so that if any of the others of us want to have some there's plenty to go around -- I don't want the person who made the special request to feel shortchanged.
Glenda
I usually go grocery shopping by myself, and ask both my husband and kiddo before I go if there's anything special they want me to pick up. They both usually have a request or two, and I make sure to get enough of those things so that if any of the others of us want to have some there's plenty to go around -- I don't want the person who made the special request to feel shortchanged.
Glenda
wtexans
===Dips can actually be the protein source -- hummus, black bean dip, or other bean-based dips are great sources of protein, especially for kiddos who don't like meat or faux-meat products.===
Another dip thought! Greek yogurt has *a lot* of protein and can be turned into a yummy fruit dip, either on its own ('tho it's tart that way) or with some honey stirred in.
(I'm not much of a meat or faux-meat person, nor is my kiddo, and nuts are problematical for me, so protein-rich dips for fruits & veggies are an important part of snack plates around here!)
Glenda
Another dip thought! Greek yogurt has *a lot* of protein and can be turned into a yummy fruit dip, either on its own ('tho it's tart that way) or with some honey stirred in.
(I'm not much of a meat or faux-meat person, nor is my kiddo, and nuts are problematical for me, so protein-rich dips for fruits & veggies are an important part of snack plates around here!)
Glenda
wtexans
===Just a question with letting go of food, we have been doing this successfully for a few months now===
It's still new.
Your daughter may not yet be confident that more of whatever-food will be purchased next grocery shopping trip. Keep purchasing those favored foods as your funds allow.
===dd had a friend sleep over and they stayed up all night when I got up the next morning all the fruit was gone my Mum and I didn't get any===
Perhaps next time her friend sleeps over, you could make available other options for snacking, things that you don't mind if none is left the next day. Popcorn, pretzels, maybe make Rice Krispie treats, etc. You could cut up some of the fruit and put that cut-up fruit out to be available for them and let them know when that fruit is gone, they need to choose another snack.
===the next day I find the ice cream all gone and the chocolate sauce and again Mum and I had not had any of this===
For my family, we've found that it works better to get a pint of ice cream for each person, in whatever flavor they want. When one person's eaten all of their pint, it's noticeable that it's gone -- there's no "oops! I've eaten all the ice cream! oh no, there's none left for anyone else!".
I'm the type who will eat mine all at once, then it's gone and I'm fine with that. My hubby's the type who will have a little every day and it'll last for weeks. Our son tends to be like my hubby. For us, having a pint each works fine. We know that next payday we can get more if we want, but we actually don't choose to have ice cream around here that often anymore.
When we're getting low on something, it gets added to the grocery list that we keep on the fridge -- all three of us are then aware that more of whatever will be bought next grocery shopping trip. Sometimes we're able to go buy those things sooner than next payday (and when we can, we do), but sometimes we can't and knowing that they're "on the list" helps.
===but still she dosn't get the fact that the food needs to be for everyone===
How old is your daughter? Maybe you're expecting something that isn't a reasonable expectation for a child her age.
(Elisa, it would be helpful in responding to your posts if you could break it up into more manageable paragraphs and/or add in punctuation. It can be off-putting when a post asking for feedback comes through and it takes several read-throughs to make heads or tails of the post's contents. The more feedback you can get, the better!)
Glenda
It's still new.
Your daughter may not yet be confident that more of whatever-food will be purchased next grocery shopping trip. Keep purchasing those favored foods as your funds allow.
===dd had a friend sleep over and they stayed up all night when I got up the next morning all the fruit was gone my Mum and I didn't get any===
Perhaps next time her friend sleeps over, you could make available other options for snacking, things that you don't mind if none is left the next day. Popcorn, pretzels, maybe make Rice Krispie treats, etc. You could cut up some of the fruit and put that cut-up fruit out to be available for them and let them know when that fruit is gone, they need to choose another snack.
===the next day I find the ice cream all gone and the chocolate sauce and again Mum and I had not had any of this===
For my family, we've found that it works better to get a pint of ice cream for each person, in whatever flavor they want. When one person's eaten all of their pint, it's noticeable that it's gone -- there's no "oops! I've eaten all the ice cream! oh no, there's none left for anyone else!".
I'm the type who will eat mine all at once, then it's gone and I'm fine with that. My hubby's the type who will have a little every day and it'll last for weeks. Our son tends to be like my hubby. For us, having a pint each works fine. We know that next payday we can get more if we want, but we actually don't choose to have ice cream around here that often anymore.
When we're getting low on something, it gets added to the grocery list that we keep on the fridge -- all three of us are then aware that more of whatever will be bought next grocery shopping trip. Sometimes we're able to go buy those things sooner than next payday (and when we can, we do), but sometimes we can't and knowing that they're "on the list" helps.
===but still she dosn't get the fact that the food needs to be for everyone===
How old is your daughter? Maybe you're expecting something that isn't a reasonable expectation for a child her age.
(Elisa, it would be helpful in responding to your posts if you could break it up into more manageable paragraphs and/or add in punctuation. It can be off-putting when a post asking for feedback comes through and it takes several read-throughs to make heads or tails of the post's contents. The more feedback you can get, the better!)
Glenda
wtexans
===DD helps me with the shopping every fortnight and we stick to our budget she realizes there is no extra money after we have bought our food until next pay day===
What about shopping more often between paydays? Rather than spending all of your grocery money in one fail swoop, buy enough food for one week, or even half a week, and go back again another time or three before next payday. That way it's not so long between "getting more _______ [fruit, ice cream, etc]".
We've been on an exceptionally tight food budget this month and rather than grocery shopping only twice this month, we've been going every couple days to pick up what sounds good. I have to admit I'm enjoying it much more than buying two weeks' worth of food at once!
Glenda
What about shopping more often between paydays? Rather than spending all of your grocery money in one fail swoop, buy enough food for one week, or even half a week, and go back again another time or three before next payday. That way it's not so long between "getting more _______ [fruit, ice cream, etc]".
We've been on an exceptionally tight food budget this month and rather than grocery shopping only twice this month, we've been going every couple days to pick up what sounds good. I have to admit I'm enjoying it much more than buying two weeks' worth of food at once!
Glenda
Elisa
----What about shopping more often between paydays? Rather than spending all of your grocery money in one fail swoop, buy enough food for one week, or even half a week, and go back again another time or three before next payday. That way it's not so long between "getting more _______ [fruit, ice cream, etc]".---
I was thinking about this but that then adds alot of extra fuel to the budget but we might try it for a month and see how we go thanks for the idea.
Elisa
I was thinking about this but that then adds alot of extra fuel to the budget but we might try it for a month and see how we go thanks for the idea.
Elisa
----- Original Message -----
From: wtexans
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 4:09 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Wanting to start unschooling food
===DD helps me with the shopping every fortnight and we stick to our budget she realizes there is no extra money after we have bought our food until next pay day===
What about shopping more often between paydays? Rather than spending all of your grocery money in one fail swoop, buy enough food for one week, or even half a week, and go back again another time or three before next payday. That way it's not so long between "getting more _______ [fruit, ice cream, etc]".
We've been on an exceptionally tight food budget this month and rather than grocery shopping only twice this month, we've been going every couple days to pick up what sounds good. I have to admit I'm enjoying it much more than buying two weeks' worth of food at once!
Glenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 1/24/2011 3:42 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
it doesn't really matter to me what the monkey's had <g>. I like the
term, though. But, I was doing the exact same thing - putting out a
plate of cheese and crackers, grapes, carrots, sliced hard-boiled eggs,
grape tomatoes, dill pickles, leftover bit of chicken or other meat.
Peanut butter and sliced apples was a big favorite. Sometimes I made
tuna sandwiches and cut them into little bite-sized pieces. Sometimes I
spread some cream cheese on graham crackers and sprinkled them with
cinnamon. It was not a sweets plate - it was what they often ate in
place of a more conventional meal. The point was that it was nutritious
and very appealing and very very easy to nibble at while continuing to
do whatever they were doing. My kids don't seem to have the protein
needs that some people do, but they did get some protein on those
plates, pretty much every time (and this was a very regular thing - I
probably made a platter like this almost every day that we were at home).
However, I did put "dips" on the plate, quite often. My kids would eat
lots of raw veggies with Ranch dressing, for example, but didn't like
the raw veggies otherwise. Rosie has always loved mustard to dip things
into. Sometimes I thinned some peanut butter for a dip. We had hummus as
a dip. Salsa of various kinds. There is a Persian food that is sometimes
called, "Yogurt cheese," or, in Arabic it is Lebni (in Persian it is
Mast-o-Kisaee). I'd sometimes thin that a bit and they'd use it as a dip
- or I'd mix various seasonings into it.
So - the dips seem natural to me - kids like to dip and it makes the
plate more appealing to them.
I think that a plate filled with sweets does miss the point - NOT that
there is something wrong with making a plate full of sweets. Yum. But
the point of the monkey platters was how to offer food to kids that
would help them feel better and let them get some nutrition without
interrupting their activities. Feeding marshmallows to a hungry kid
isn't really likely to help them feel good.
-pam
> Those monkeys at the Rio Grande zoo didn't have dips. They didn't haveWe did this before I ever heard the term, "Monkey Platter," from you, so
> toothpicks, either. So I invite clarification of what might be my
> problem. :-)
it doesn't really matter to me what the monkey's had <g>. I like the
term, though. But, I was doing the exact same thing - putting out a
plate of cheese and crackers, grapes, carrots, sliced hard-boiled eggs,
grape tomatoes, dill pickles, leftover bit of chicken or other meat.
Peanut butter and sliced apples was a big favorite. Sometimes I made
tuna sandwiches and cut them into little bite-sized pieces. Sometimes I
spread some cream cheese on graham crackers and sprinkled them with
cinnamon. It was not a sweets plate - it was what they often ate in
place of a more conventional meal. The point was that it was nutritious
and very appealing and very very easy to nibble at while continuing to
do whatever they were doing. My kids don't seem to have the protein
needs that some people do, but they did get some protein on those
plates, pretty much every time (and this was a very regular thing - I
probably made a platter like this almost every day that we were at home).
However, I did put "dips" on the plate, quite often. My kids would eat
lots of raw veggies with Ranch dressing, for example, but didn't like
the raw veggies otherwise. Rosie has always loved mustard to dip things
into. Sometimes I thinned some peanut butter for a dip. We had hummus as
a dip. Salsa of various kinds. There is a Persian food that is sometimes
called, "Yogurt cheese," or, in Arabic it is Lebni (in Persian it is
Mast-o-Kisaee). I'd sometimes thin that a bit and they'd use it as a dip
- or I'd mix various seasonings into it.
So - the dips seem natural to me - kids like to dip and it makes the
plate more appealing to them.
I think that a plate filled with sweets does miss the point - NOT that
there is something wrong with making a plate full of sweets. Yum. But
the point of the monkey platters was how to offer food to kids that
would help them feel better and let them get some nutrition without
interrupting their activities. Feeding marshmallows to a hungry kid
isn't really likely to help them feel good.
-pam
dezignarob
====> Those monkeys at the Rio Grande zoo didn't have dips. They didn't have toothpicks, either.====
Of all the things to worry about toothpicks aren't worth it! The monkeys didn't have computer keyboards and remote controls and light switches and doorknobs on which to avoid leaving sticky finger marks. They probably didn't have napkins either, but they are an important part of our snack trays.
We used to have fancy "cocktail forks", tiny two prong colorful plastic things. I used to give each visitor a different colored one to spear their fruit bits. The kids found them fun.
==== Or should I leave them all but put a disclaimer there that it kind of defeats the purpose of getting protein into gamer kids and fruit into little kids who might not want a whole piece of fruit, if it's cut up as part of an attractive array? ====
I didn't realize the purpose of monkey platters was so narrow and tricksy sounding. I thought they were to save kids from getting hungry when they were too busy and allow moms to relax around the idea of balanced meals by making free choice easier. Because the main happy result is that everything gets eaten, right, not just the sweets?
If one goal of the picture display is to visually reinforce the idea of not demonizing any of the foods that your kids enjoy, but to show instead that genuine variety includes everything, then the sweet stuff mixed in is important.
I have no comment on dips except to say that we only sometimes have a sauce or dip depending on the other stuff. We do not have dips to mask flavors or hide the veges. I don't know if that is part of your boggle, Sandra.
Robyn L. Coburn
Certified SDU Scrapbooking Instructor
www.robyncoburn.blogspot.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
Of all the things to worry about toothpicks aren't worth it! The monkeys didn't have computer keyboards and remote controls and light switches and doorknobs on which to avoid leaving sticky finger marks. They probably didn't have napkins either, but they are an important part of our snack trays.
We used to have fancy "cocktail forks", tiny two prong colorful plastic things. I used to give each visitor a different colored one to spear their fruit bits. The kids found them fun.
==== Or should I leave them all but put a disclaimer there that it kind of defeats the purpose of getting protein into gamer kids and fruit into little kids who might not want a whole piece of fruit, if it's cut up as part of an attractive array? ====
I didn't realize the purpose of monkey platters was so narrow and tricksy sounding. I thought they were to save kids from getting hungry when they were too busy and allow moms to relax around the idea of balanced meals by making free choice easier. Because the main happy result is that everything gets eaten, right, not just the sweets?
If one goal of the picture display is to visually reinforce the idea of not demonizing any of the foods that your kids enjoy, but to show instead that genuine variety includes everything, then the sweet stuff mixed in is important.
I have no comment on dips except to say that we only sometimes have a sauce or dip depending on the other stuff. We do not have dips to mask flavors or hide the veges. I don't know if that is part of your boggle, Sandra.
Robyn L. Coburn
Certified SDU Scrapbooking Instructor
www.robyncoburn.blogspot.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
Sandra Dodd
Alex P wrote:
-=-I think for people and kids new to a no limit diet it may be helpful to have
the candy and sweets together with the fruits, vegetables and protein bites...
-=-...For a family that has had limits and even told the kids they could not eat some
things it may be good to add all kinds of snacks in the platter so
kids can start to relax and see that apples can be as good or better than
things that were made off limits , "treats", sometimes even a reward!-=-
I suppose that's true.
By the time that idea came along for us, Kirby was at least nine, because we had already moved to this house. So we had nine years (eight or so, I guess, not counting infancy pre-food) of not making any big deal at our house about when, whether or how much a child ate. Being able to turn down foods kept most or all of the food-aversion problems at bay. An "aversion" was treated as "No problem; maybe someday," or "He doesn't like that yet."
We didn't "dessert train" our kids at all, either. When we had a sit-down meal, there wasn't dessert served. If they wanted something later that wasn't a problem, but they were usually already full. "Save room for dessert" was never spoken. At restaurants when the waiter would come and ask me or Keith if we wanted to see the dessert menu or if anyone wanted dessert, we would turn to the kids and look questioningly or ask if they wanted anything. Occasionally one of them would. Sometimes one would split something with me or Keith, or we would all taste it and the one who chose it would eat the rest, or take some home. I can't think of a time except maybe at a buffet when all three of them had dessert. We've gotten some surprised looks from waiters, for sure. Sometimes at a buffet one of them would go to the desserts first, but usually to look for something specific. I can remember cheesecake once, and banana pudding once. But that didn't keep them from going to the other foods after that.
I'm not comfortable when someone says ice cream is great for breakfast, or nervously says something about my kids probably eating wild and crazy things (not a quote; can't think of a quote). It's more reactionary than it is open. I know balance is hard to find sometimes when people are changing in extreme ways, but it seems to me that balance should be "on the poster," as it were, and not the wild newly-freed extremes.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-I think for people and kids new to a no limit diet it may be helpful to have
the candy and sweets together with the fruits, vegetables and protein bites...
-=-...For a family that has had limits and even told the kids they could not eat some
things it may be good to add all kinds of snacks in the platter so
kids can start to relax and see that apples can be as good or better than
things that were made off limits , "treats", sometimes even a reward!-=-
I suppose that's true.
By the time that idea came along for us, Kirby was at least nine, because we had already moved to this house. So we had nine years (eight or so, I guess, not counting infancy pre-food) of not making any big deal at our house about when, whether or how much a child ate. Being able to turn down foods kept most or all of the food-aversion problems at bay. An "aversion" was treated as "No problem; maybe someday," or "He doesn't like that yet."
We didn't "dessert train" our kids at all, either. When we had a sit-down meal, there wasn't dessert served. If they wanted something later that wasn't a problem, but they were usually already full. "Save room for dessert" was never spoken. At restaurants when the waiter would come and ask me or Keith if we wanted to see the dessert menu or if anyone wanted dessert, we would turn to the kids and look questioningly or ask if they wanted anything. Occasionally one of them would. Sometimes one would split something with me or Keith, or we would all taste it and the one who chose it would eat the rest, or take some home. I can't think of a time except maybe at a buffet when all three of them had dessert. We've gotten some surprised looks from waiters, for sure. Sometimes at a buffet one of them would go to the desserts first, but usually to look for something specific. I can remember cheesecake once, and banana pudding once. But that didn't keep them from going to the other foods after that.
I'm not comfortable when someone says ice cream is great for breakfast, or nervously says something about my kids probably eating wild and crazy things (not a quote; can't think of a quote). It's more reactionary than it is open. I know balance is hard to find sometimes when people are changing in extreme ways, but it seems to me that balance should be "on the poster," as it were, and not the wild newly-freed extremes.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- Needless to say I was furious-=-
I think your fury was worse than her fruit-eating binge.
You don't need to respond to the group, but there are conflicts in this account, so I assume you have conflicts in your thinking about this aspect of yourself:
-=- I didn't get angry with dd I just tried talking to her about how we all share the house and everything in it which means we should all get to eat the food in it she said she would try and remember for next time but the fruit was just so nice. I got so upset I left the room before I lost is completely-=-
You cannot be furious, and not angry, and so upset you leave the room before you lose it completely.
You can, perhaps, be jealous that your daughter got to eat happily instead of measuring. It might possibly be because you weren't allowed to do that as a child. And if your mother is there with you, and if you assured her it would be cool to let them eat more, and if you think she's looking at the situation disapprovingly, you're stuck between being the child or the mother. Maybe. Maybe not.
-=-she dosn't get the fact that the food needs to be for everyone.-=-
The food has no needs.
If you rephrase that (for yourself, not for us), you will be able to think about it more clearly.
-=-I let go of the food and say you can eat what you want and so now dd eats everything without thinking about the fact that she is not the only one in the house does anyone have any ideas,-=-
Too much "fact." You have phrases in you that you're seeing as "fact," and that will limit your flexibility to think in new ways. Also if you're using phrases you got from somewhere else, your thinking will be tied up with the place they came from. I'm not being airy-fairy here. If I were to say to my child "Who do you think you are, Miss Aster?" I would be quoting my mother. I had no idea who "Miss Aster" was, but I knew I was receiving what my mother considered to be a cutting put-down. "The fact that she is not the only one in the house" sounds more like a quote than a string of words you chose. Did anyone ever tell you that you weren't the only one in the house when you needed or wanted something?
Maybe when you shop next time get some canned fruit. Chunks of pineapple, or mandarin oranges. Drained and eaten with toothpicks or cute little forks, those can last a little longer than fresh fruit or can augment some fresh fruit. You can find them on sale sometimes, too. Or dried fruit. Papaya or apricots, maybe.
This stage of excitement was directly caused by the lifting of limits. You could have maybe gone a little more slowly.
http://sandradodd.com/gradualchange
But you could also reapportion the groceries you buy for a while until things settle out some.
-=- DD helps me with the shopping every fortnight and we stick to our budget she realizes there is no extra money after we have bought our food until next pay day but -=-
How old is she? She might not realize as much as you think she does.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think your fury was worse than her fruit-eating binge.
You don't need to respond to the group, but there are conflicts in this account, so I assume you have conflicts in your thinking about this aspect of yourself:
-=- I didn't get angry with dd I just tried talking to her about how we all share the house and everything in it which means we should all get to eat the food in it she said she would try and remember for next time but the fruit was just so nice. I got so upset I left the room before I lost is completely-=-
You cannot be furious, and not angry, and so upset you leave the room before you lose it completely.
You can, perhaps, be jealous that your daughter got to eat happily instead of measuring. It might possibly be because you weren't allowed to do that as a child. And if your mother is there with you, and if you assured her it would be cool to let them eat more, and if you think she's looking at the situation disapprovingly, you're stuck between being the child or the mother. Maybe. Maybe not.
-=-she dosn't get the fact that the food needs to be for everyone.-=-
The food has no needs.
If you rephrase that (for yourself, not for us), you will be able to think about it more clearly.
-=-I let go of the food and say you can eat what you want and so now dd eats everything without thinking about the fact that she is not the only one in the house does anyone have any ideas,-=-
Too much "fact." You have phrases in you that you're seeing as "fact," and that will limit your flexibility to think in new ways. Also if you're using phrases you got from somewhere else, your thinking will be tied up with the place they came from. I'm not being airy-fairy here. If I were to say to my child "Who do you think you are, Miss Aster?" I would be quoting my mother. I had no idea who "Miss Aster" was, but I knew I was receiving what my mother considered to be a cutting put-down. "The fact that she is not the only one in the house" sounds more like a quote than a string of words you chose. Did anyone ever tell you that you weren't the only one in the house when you needed or wanted something?
Maybe when you shop next time get some canned fruit. Chunks of pineapple, or mandarin oranges. Drained and eaten with toothpicks or cute little forks, those can last a little longer than fresh fruit or can augment some fresh fruit. You can find them on sale sometimes, too. Or dried fruit. Papaya or apricots, maybe.
This stage of excitement was directly caused by the lifting of limits. You could have maybe gone a little more slowly.
http://sandradodd.com/gradualchange
But you could also reapportion the groceries you buy for a while until things settle out some.
-=- DD helps me with the shopping every fortnight and we stick to our budget she realizes there is no extra money after we have bought our food until next pay day but -=-
How old is she? She might not realize as much as you think she does.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
I was on food stamps (assistance) for a while. It looks like you're in
Australia. Do you have grocery stores with dinted cans and surplus? I don't
know how it works over there. But how I shopped then was to go to grocery
outlets that served poor populations and get these very nice brand name
foods for under half price because the label fell off or there was a mark on
it that made it unpresentable for regular grocery stores. I got a few duds
at first, trying to figure out what looked ok and was good and what should
have been thrown out in the first place. At first I couldn't tell until I
opened it and looked at the actual food. I got really good at picking out
the good stuff without opening it. I literally went in and bought food for a
quarter of regular price. That way I could get enough to eat. That was when
I was going to college, scraping by.
Telling a child not to eat the share of others when there isn't enough to go
around.. I hope there's a solution and you can find more food less
expensively.
~Katherine
Australia. Do you have grocery stores with dinted cans and surplus? I don't
know how it works over there. But how I shopped then was to go to grocery
outlets that served poor populations and get these very nice brand name
foods for under half price because the label fell off or there was a mark on
it that made it unpresentable for regular grocery stores. I got a few duds
at first, trying to figure out what looked ok and was good and what should
have been thrown out in the first place. At first I couldn't tell until I
opened it and looked at the actual food. I got really good at picking out
the good stuff without opening it. I literally went in and bought food for a
quarter of regular price. That way I could get enough to eat. That was when
I was going to college, scraping by.
Telling a child not to eat the share of others when there isn't enough to go
around.. I hope there's a solution and you can find more food less
expensively.
~Katherine
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 9:07 PM, Elisa <elisa29@...> wrote:
> Just a question with letting go of food, we have been doing this
> successfully for a few months now with dd the only problem we are finding is
> that being on a limited income there is only so much for example fruit the
> other day I went to the local growers market and we bought our fruit lot's
> of beautiful summer fruit dd had a friend sleep over and they stayed up all
> night when I got up the next morning all the fruit was gone my Mum and I
> didn't get any.... Needless to say I was furious thinking what do I do now
> no more money for 2 weeks and no more fruit in the house I didn't get angry
> with dd I just tried talking to her about how we all share the house and
> everything in it which means we should all get to eat the food in it she
> said she would try and remember for next time but the fruit was just so
> nice. I got so upset I left the room before I lost is completely but then
> the next day I find the ice cream all gone and the chocolate sauce and again
> Mum and I had not had any of this I am just really struggling with this side
> of it I let go of the food and say you can eat what you want and so now dd
> eats everything without thinking about the fact that she is not the only one
> in the house does anyone have any ideas, DD helps me with the shopping every
> fortnight and we stick to our budget she realizes there is no extra money
> after we have bought our food until next pay day but still she dosn't get
> the fact that the food needs to be for everyone.
>
> Elisa
> -----
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa Lanzkron-Tamarazo
> =Is there another thing about which you say "when we go shopping, tell meI realize after reading a lot of the posts, that I am actually pretty close
> what you want and I will buy it."?=
>
> I had to really think about this question. If we go to a store that is not
> the supermarket, no, I don't buy them everything they want. If they want
> something, I generally tell them to add it to their birthday list, or to use
> their own money.
>
> We don't really go in to stores except the supermarket. And when we go
> there, I generally let them pick a lot of the food that we get. My
> limitations with that are almost always monetary, except with candy, cookies
> and cake. We have plenty of food that we buy that is not what someone might
> term "healthy." I don't like having the candy, cookies and cake because of
> my own and my husband's issues with lack of control around food. And when I
> do eat in an out of control manner, I feel lousy. So, I just try to keep
> that out of the house. I must add, though, that we hold religious services
> at our house every Saturday (and sometimes Friday night) and on those days,
> we have candy and cake and cookies. I grew up having candy only on the
> Sabbath-it was a way to make the day sweet and special. That is what I now
> do with my own children. We always have cake or something like it for
> dessert Friday night and we have candy during services and cake and cookies
> with our potluck lunch after services. But, part of my own food issues is
> that most of the time these foods were unavailable to me. So, when they
> were available, I ate them (and still do) as if it might be my last time
> ever.
>
> to unschooling food already. My kids tend to eat at their own times, exceptI already do a version of the monkey platter. It usually involves just
> for dinner, when we sit together to eat and enjoy each others' company.
> Sometimes we go through phases where we have a morning ritual involving
> singing and greeting the day when we will come together for breakfast, but
> we seem to have moved away from that, as well. I don't prevent them from
> eating what they want, although dinner is what's on the table but always
> includes a variety of foods so that there is always something that everyone
> will eat.
>
veggies and fruit, because it usually is done when I have some produce that
will go bad if not eaten. When it is cut up and sitting there on the table,
it will be consumed as everyone walks by throughout the day.
All of this being said, I did talk to my 10 year old about this yesterday
when we went to the library's cafe and I said yes to chocolate. I explained
my intention of giving them freedom in regards to food and he said, as he
ate his chocolate bar, "Are you really my Mommy?" And the look of
relaxation on his face spoke so clearly to me. We talked a little about my
perception that he eats everything really quickly because he is afraid that
we are going to tell him he's done before he is ready. And he agreed that
we do that and that we should stop.
I don't know that I can ever heal my own relationship with food. It has
gotten better over the years, but I still have a tough time not lapsing into
the cycle of deprivation and binge that has been my life. But I would so
love to see my children truly enjoy food without guilt.
Lisa L-T
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-I have no comment on dips except to say that we only sometimes have a sauce or dip depending on the other stuff. We do not have dips to mask flavors or hide the veges. I don't know if that is part of your boggle, Sandra.-=-
Maybe so.
You're all right. It seems to me like a slippery slope and I'm trying to keep some purity about the recommendation that if you put a plate of interesting finger food there, kids will eat it.
It does seem to me that sauces or dips are the tricksy part, possibly--that the kid would be eating the dip, not the vegetables (and also potentially messy, for kids using video games or computers). I picture it on Kirby's old desk, amid headphones and gameboys and stuffed animals and dip seems way dangerous. :-)
Thanks for the reminders and the "not a big deal" feedback.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Maybe so.
You're all right. It seems to me like a slippery slope and I'm trying to keep some purity about the recommendation that if you put a plate of interesting finger food there, kids will eat it.
It does seem to me that sauces or dips are the tricksy part, possibly--that the kid would be eating the dip, not the vegetables (and also potentially messy, for kids using video games or computers). I picture it on Kirby's old desk, amid headphones and gameboys and stuffed animals and dip seems way dangerous. :-)
Thanks for the reminders and the "not a big deal" feedback.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
>>>Feeding marshmallows to a hungry kid isn't really likely to help themfeel good.<<<
Having nothing but sweets and marshmallows every time one does up a platter
is not so good. Not filling enough. Some people don't buy much other than
this and they buy a lot to compensate for the fact that it's not filling.
They eat more. Or the ones I know do.
Making plates and never putting ANY sweets out can, for some kids, work
against choice though. And though the food is appealing, nutritious and
filling, if the child still desires sweets, there's no point arguing against
that if you can provide for that desire.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Telling a child not to eat the share of others when there isn't enough to go
around.. I hope there's a solution and you can find more food less
expensively.-=-
Katherine, can you repair or clarify the top sentence there, please?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
around.. I hope there's a solution and you can find more food less
expensively.-=-
Katherine, can you repair or clarify the top sentence there, please?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sarah
I think if children have real choices then putting out a bit of everything you think they'll fancy, along with a couple of things they might not have tried or thought of, will lead to a pretty broad selection on your monkey platters.
Ours look different all the time- sometimes they have 'unhealthy' stuff, sometimes not. They always have a good range though... Actually at the moment my boys like it when I use a muffin tin- 12 spaces with something different in each one- it looks very appealing.
I often have to clear the table to make space for a new platter so bits of what I'm putting away will go into it- that's when I recycle the end of crisp or sweet packets into the platter.
For me the point of these platters has been their variety and visual appeal- reminding busy people to eat, and a way of giving a new lease of life to some of the half eaten fruit and packets of things lying around- so I don't feel that anything is actually off limits.
But ideas can serve different purposes in different houses and I have young children- who may be particilarly keen on eating in this way. So I may look different in a house with older children who can get a wider variety of food for themselves, or who aren't as focussed on the novelty aspect.
S
Ours look different all the time- sometimes they have 'unhealthy' stuff, sometimes not. They always have a good range though... Actually at the moment my boys like it when I use a muffin tin- 12 spaces with something different in each one- it looks very appealing.
I often have to clear the table to make space for a new platter so bits of what I'm putting away will go into it- that's when I recycle the end of crisp or sweet packets into the platter.
For me the point of these platters has been their variety and visual appeal- reminding busy people to eat, and a way of giving a new lease of life to some of the half eaten fruit and packets of things lying around- so I don't feel that anything is actually off limits.
But ideas can serve different purposes in different houses and I have young children- who may be particilarly keen on eating in this way. So I may look different in a house with older children who can get a wider variety of food for themselves, or who aren't as focussed on the novelty aspect.
S
--- In [email protected], k <katherand@...> wrote:
>
> >>>Feeding marshmallows to a hungry kid isn't really likely to help them
> feel good.<<<
>
> Having nothing but sweets and marshmallows every time one does up a platter
> is not so good. Not filling enough. Some people don't buy much other than
> this and they buy a lot to compensate for the fact that it's not filling.
> They eat more. Or the ones I know do.
>
> Making plates and never putting ANY sweets out can, for some kids, work
> against choice though. And though the food is appealing, nutritious and
> filling, if the child still desires sweets, there's no point arguing against
> that if you can provide for that desire.
>
> ~Katherine
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-Making plates and never putting ANY sweets out can, for some kids, work
against choice though. And though the food is appealing, nutritious and
filling, if the child still desires sweets, there's no point arguing against
that if you can provide for that desire.-=-
If the child is limited to that plate, that might be true.
If they have the freedom and ability to get up and go find something different, I don't think it "works against choice."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
against choice though. And though the food is appealing, nutritious and
filling, if the child still desires sweets, there's no point arguing against
that if you can provide for that desire.-=-
If the child is limited to that plate, that might be true.
If they have the freedom and ability to get up and go find something different, I don't think it "works against choice."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sheeboo2
Before we learned about unschooling, we used Monkey Platters. We called them "N's Smorgasbord." I think my mom used to make plated like that for my brother and me when we were small too. I always saw it as a way to offer bite-sized nutrient-dense food to an ever moving child. Dips were/are a big part of the plate, because as Glenda and Pam mentioned, hummus, peanut butter and labne, are great protein options for vegetarians. We also have a collection of cocktail forks and other tiny eating tools that just seemed to make everything on the plate a little more fun to eat: little clawed tongs for pickles or cut up veggie sticks and small butter knives with fish-fin handles to spread nut butters on fruit slices. Smoothies, which to me are like liquified Monkey Platters (that sounds gross), are supported by a collection of fun straws.
We used to say that our daughter could live on air. For us, presentation was key. It still is, actually. If the plate/food isn't aesthetically pleasing, she'll ignore it.
In terms of the photos on Sandra's site, I wonder if thinking about audience is worthwhile? If the interview you're going to give in the next month will reach a huge mainstream audience who've only heard about unschooling from other mainstream sources, like the Good Morning America segment, I can see why having big pictures of pink marshmallows and jelly beans could be a bit worrisome, simply because of how conventional parents may "turn off" when they see them, click the window closed, and not pursue more learning about unschooling, because "those folks are crazy."
That said, I also think for people who are invested in learning more about unschooling already, it may be helpful to see plates that represent a a wide range of food choices, from the nutrient dense to the not-so-much-so. (a before and after shot of what was consumed on the plate might be cool too)
Brie
We used to say that our daughter could live on air. For us, presentation was key. It still is, actually. If the plate/food isn't aesthetically pleasing, she'll ignore it.
In terms of the photos on Sandra's site, I wonder if thinking about audience is worthwhile? If the interview you're going to give in the next month will reach a huge mainstream audience who've only heard about unschooling from other mainstream sources, like the Good Morning America segment, I can see why having big pictures of pink marshmallows and jelly beans could be a bit worrisome, simply because of how conventional parents may "turn off" when they see them, click the window closed, and not pursue more learning about unschooling, because "those folks are crazy."
That said, I also think for people who are invested in learning more about unschooling already, it may be helpful to see plates that represent a a wide range of food choices, from the nutrient dense to the not-so-much-so. (a before and after shot of what was consumed on the plate might be cool too)
Brie
k
If there isn't enough food to go around, I hope more can be found since the
needs don't go away on a premise or ethic of sharing.
It used to be that Karl most frequently ate like a bird. He's 7 and
generally eats a lot more now. Growing girls are no different than growing
boys. Karl can really mow through fruit especially. For brain and nerve
growth probably since the brain's sole nutrient is glucose-- sugar. Unlike
eating just sugar cookies, he's also gets bioflavonoids and fiber from
fruit. In a pinch though, I'll give him sweets if I'm out of fruit until I
can get more. All we have left at the moment are some clementines and a
mango that isn't going to ripen.
~Katherine
needs don't go away on a premise or ethic of sharing.
It used to be that Karl most frequently ate like a bird. He's 7 and
generally eats a lot more now. Growing girls are no different than growing
boys. Karl can really mow through fruit especially. For brain and nerve
growth probably since the brain's sole nutrient is glucose-- sugar. Unlike
eating just sugar cookies, he's also gets bioflavonoids and fiber from
fruit. In a pinch though, I'll give him sweets if I'm out of fruit until I
can get more. All we have left at the moment are some clementines and a
mango that isn't going to ripen.
~Katherine
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 9:05 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> -=-Telling a child not to eat the share of others when there isn't enough
> to go
> around.. I hope there's a solution and you can find more food less
> expensively.-=-
>
> Katherine, can you repair or clarify the top sentence there, please?
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 1/25/2011 6:10 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
just crackers and cheese or just ham and pineapple. The point for my
kids was that they were busy and didn't take time to eat. To avoid them
getting cranky due to hunger, I'd put out plates of little finger-foods
that were easy for them to eat as they played. It wasn't to somehow
trick them into eating healthy foods, but to accommodate food offering
to their needs. Instead of having "breakfast" and "lunch" or even
"dinner" (in quotes meaning the conventional idea of a mealtime at a
table with certain types of foods), my kids grazed throughout the day
and evening.
I remember one day in my childhood super clearly. A standout day. It was
fall - the air was crisp and we could see the snow on the mountains. I
was playing outdoors with a lot of friends from the neighborhood -
playing kickball in the street. I'd been running a lot for hours and I
remember suddenly being so famished I couldn't function. I ran into the
house - my mom had made pot roast and was taking it out of the oven. The
kitchen was steamy warm and smelled SO good. But we were having dinner
in the dining room and the table was all set and she told me I had to
wait for food. She'd been chopping carrots, earlier, and there were
still some raw carrots sitting there. I asked if I could have something
to eat right now and she said, without really looking or paying
attention to me, "No, just wait, we're going to eat in about 15 minutes."
I remember I thought I would die if I had to wait 15 minutes. I waited
until her back was turned and I grabbed one of the carrots as I went out
of the kitchen. I went back outside and bit off a piece of carrot and it
tasted SO sweet and good. I remember just chewing on it and the feeling
of swallowing it and everything. But I felt SO guilty - it wasn't like
me to be sneaky (it wasn't like my mom to give me a reason to be
sneaky). I went back in and told my mom I'd stolen a carrot stick I
remember thinking I might get my hand slapped - weird thought since I'd
never been spanked or slapped, but I must have gotten that idea from tv
or a story or something. I remember she looked a little bewildered and
said, "Oh, that's okay, but next time you should ask." Something casual
like that.
Later, when my own kids asked for food right when I was in the middle of
making something for them that would be done in 15 minutes, that
incident came back to me so clearly and I ALWAYS gave my kids some food
immediately. When kids are hungry, they are SO hungry that they hurt.
Making them wait a few minutes can be really cruel. Better for them to
have food offered before they need it.
-pam
> -=-Making plates and never putting ANY sweets out can, for some kids, workThe plate doesn't have to have everything possible on it. It could be
> against choice though. And though the food is appealing, nutritious and
> filling, if the child still desires sweets, there's no point arguing
> against
> that if you can provide for that desire.-=-
just crackers and cheese or just ham and pineapple. The point for my
kids was that they were busy and didn't take time to eat. To avoid them
getting cranky due to hunger, I'd put out plates of little finger-foods
that were easy for them to eat as they played. It wasn't to somehow
trick them into eating healthy foods, but to accommodate food offering
to their needs. Instead of having "breakfast" and "lunch" or even
"dinner" (in quotes meaning the conventional idea of a mealtime at a
table with certain types of foods), my kids grazed throughout the day
and evening.
I remember one day in my childhood super clearly. A standout day. It was
fall - the air was crisp and we could see the snow on the mountains. I
was playing outdoors with a lot of friends from the neighborhood -
playing kickball in the street. I'd been running a lot for hours and I
remember suddenly being so famished I couldn't function. I ran into the
house - my mom had made pot roast and was taking it out of the oven. The
kitchen was steamy warm and smelled SO good. But we were having dinner
in the dining room and the table was all set and she told me I had to
wait for food. She'd been chopping carrots, earlier, and there were
still some raw carrots sitting there. I asked if I could have something
to eat right now and she said, without really looking or paying
attention to me, "No, just wait, we're going to eat in about 15 minutes."
I remember I thought I would die if I had to wait 15 minutes. I waited
until her back was turned and I grabbed one of the carrots as I went out
of the kitchen. I went back outside and bit off a piece of carrot and it
tasted SO sweet and good. I remember just chewing on it and the feeling
of swallowing it and everything. But I felt SO guilty - it wasn't like
me to be sneaky (it wasn't like my mom to give me a reason to be
sneaky). I went back in and told my mom I'd stolen a carrot stick I
remember thinking I might get my hand slapped - weird thought since I'd
never been spanked or slapped, but I must have gotten that idea from tv
or a story or something. I remember she looked a little bewildered and
said, "Oh, that's okay, but next time you should ask." Something casual
like that.
Later, when my own kids asked for food right when I was in the middle of
making something for them that would be done in 15 minutes, that
incident came back to me so clearly and I ALWAYS gave my kids some food
immediately. When kids are hungry, they are SO hungry that they hurt.
Making them wait a few minutes can be really cruel. Better for them to
have food offered before they need it.
-pam
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 25, 2011, at 9:10 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
than you originally suggested. And those purposes will influence what
might go on them.
For kids who've never had food restrictions, the monkey platters are
convenient ways to get food when kids might not want to break from
what they're doing to eat.
For kids who've had food restrictions, there's the additional new idea
that food is food. If the platters are full of healthy foods mom has
usually been offering as snacks, it reinforces the division between
"good" food and "bad" food she's trying to get rid of. A platter might
feel like another mom ploy to get the kids to eat healthy.
Bits of this whole exchange might be a good addition to the monkey
platter page since there are probably unintentional mixed messages
there.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> If they have the freedom and ability to get up and go find somethingIt seems the monkey platters are being used for different purposes
> different, I don't think it "works against choice."
than you originally suggested. And those purposes will influence what
might go on them.
For kids who've never had food restrictions, the monkey platters are
convenient ways to get food when kids might not want to break from
what they're doing to eat.
For kids who've had food restrictions, there's the additional new idea
that food is food. If the platters are full of healthy foods mom has
usually been offering as snacks, it reinforces the division between
"good" food and "bad" food she's trying to get rid of. A platter might
feel like another mom ploy to get the kids to eat healthy.
Bits of this whole exchange might be a good addition to the monkey
platter page since there are probably unintentional mixed messages
there.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]