Language and choice of words
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
To Sandra and the list
I was wondering if you would be interested in starting a discussion on the list
or the chat on the
use of language/choice of words? I know you have talked a lot about how being
mindful of which words
you choose when writing and talking about your children are very important and
it matters.
I have learned so much because of it and I have become so much better at
identifying how the words we
choose to write or speak make a difference not only unschooling our children but
in our whole life.
I am so much more conscious even when I talk to Brian and it has made a world
of difference in our relationship.
Using negative words to talk about us, our children, our lives doesn't that
permeate in our whole life and creates a negative environment?
I remember you talking about the word stupid and I confess that is a hard one
for me and I slip once in a while. Gigi uses it a lot and I am sure she
does 'cause
she has heard me so many times. Sure there are lots of cartoons that use stupid
a lot.
I even used to call our dog Bloxie * Stupid Dog* just like the old man calls
Courage ( on Courage the Cowardly Dog- Courage is not stupid at all).
It was a loving nick name because we love Courage.
Is it because I have been reading people like you, Pam, Schuyler,Joyce,
Meredith, Robin, Jenny, and many more and I am so used to people choosing
positive, mindful words??? If it is I like it. It has made my life sweeter that
is for sure as I tend to be the skeptical, sarcastic, lawyer-type person.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was wondering if you would be interested in starting a discussion on the list
or the chat on the
use of language/choice of words? I know you have talked a lot about how being
mindful of which words
you choose when writing and talking about your children are very important and
it matters.
I have learned so much because of it and I have become so much better at
identifying how the words we
choose to write or speak make a difference not only unschooling our children but
in our whole life.
I am so much more conscious even when I talk to Brian and it has made a world
of difference in our relationship.
Using negative words to talk about us, our children, our lives doesn't that
permeate in our whole life and creates a negative environment?
I remember you talking about the word stupid and I confess that is a hard one
for me and I slip once in a while. Gigi uses it a lot and I am sure she
does 'cause
she has heard me so many times. Sure there are lots of cartoons that use stupid
a lot.
I even used to call our dog Bloxie * Stupid Dog* just like the old man calls
Courage ( on Courage the Cowardly Dog- Courage is not stupid at all).
It was a loving nick name because we love Courage.
Is it because I have been reading people like you, Pam, Schuyler,Joyce,
Meredith, Robin, Jenny, and many more and I am so used to people choosing
positive, mindful words??? If it is I like it. It has made my life sweeter that
is for sure as I tend to be the skeptical, sarcastic, lawyer-type person.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
I grew up with sarcastic words and married a skeptic. So imagine putting
sarcasm with skepticism and that's a lot of negativity to peel back and
examine, just to realize that we're being negative when we use familiar
phrases. It makes a difference in changing my own negative streak to change
the words I use. It's very therapeutic.
I purchased and am reading a marriage improvement book by Patricia Love and
Steve Stosny, thanks to a recommendation last week of a similar book by
Stosny on this list. The authors say that ultimately it isn't the words but
lack of knowledge to sustain connection in relationships and they go through
a lot of info on that. But I would still argue that using negative wording
links into a negative emotional attunement, and that changing the words one
uses is very helpful. In addition to knowing more about how interactions
might be coming about. It's all very good information. I wouldn't neglect
changing words and thus changing how one thinks about people who near and
dear to one. I haven't finished reading the book but so far it sounds like
an emphasis on thinking as opposed to changing one's actions. When to me it
seems like both are helpful and why choose one over the other when I can do
both?
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sarcasm with skepticism and that's a lot of negativity to peel back and
examine, just to realize that we're being negative when we use familiar
phrases. It makes a difference in changing my own negative streak to change
the words I use. It's very therapeutic.
I purchased and am reading a marriage improvement book by Patricia Love and
Steve Stosny, thanks to a recommendation last week of a similar book by
Stosny on this list. The authors say that ultimately it isn't the words but
lack of knowledge to sustain connection in relationships and they go through
a lot of info on that. But I would still argue that using negative wording
links into a negative emotional attunement, and that changing the words one
uses is very helpful. In addition to knowing more about how interactions
might be coming about. It's all very good information. I wouldn't neglect
changing words and thus changing how one thinks about people who near and
dear to one. I haven't finished reading the book but so far it sounds like
an emphasis on thinking as opposed to changing one's actions. When to me it
seems like both are helpful and why choose one over the other when I can do
both?
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- I haven't finished reading the book but so far it sounds like
an emphasis on thinking as opposed to changing one's actions. When to me it
seems like both are helpful and why choose one over the other when I can do
both?-=-
I haven't read the book, but if it were a general question, I would say changing one's actions without changing one's thinking breeds dishonesty and falsehood. Changing one's thinking will eventually change one's actions, or at least one's REactions.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
an emphasis on thinking as opposed to changing one's actions. When to me it
seems like both are helpful and why choose one over the other when I can do
both?-=-
I haven't read the book, but if it were a general question, I would say changing one's actions without changing one's thinking breeds dishonesty and falsehood. Changing one's thinking will eventually change one's actions, or at least one's REactions.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
" I haven't finished reading the book but so far it sounds like
an emphasis on thinking as opposed to changing one's actions. When to me it
seems like both are helpful and why choose one over the other when I can do
both?"
-=-=-=-=
But if we change how we see/think/speak off something or someone won't that
chage our actions.
Me wanting to talk about this has nothing to do with the discussion going onat
unchoolingbasics but
Joyce wrote something really good there.
Here it is and I hope it is OK to post it here:
treats it, influences the solutions she comes up with. (Influences.
Not confine. But pushes it in that direction when she wants to move a
different direction.)
Let's say someone puts getting kids out of the house into the "drag"
box in their mental store house. It's a label she sometimes uses for
fun or when she's tired.
That "drag" box also contains dragging dead tree limbs, dragging
yourself out of bed and to work, dragging your attention back to a
dull lecture. Those are all typical images that come to mind when
someone says drag. Those are the images at the top of the box. Those
images are also tiring and draining.
When the kid dragging isn't working, when the kids are balking, it's
very easy for the mom to think in terms of how she solves other
dragging problems. Not because she wants to but because the dragging
box has lots of ideas in it. It even has ideas on how to drag kids
because that's part of conventional parenting. The "help kids in
respectful ways" box has little to none in it.
When mom is getting frazzled, which box is she likely to dip into for
solutions? The familiar, full box? Or the nearly empty box?
One step in living a more joyful life is getting our interactions with
our kids out of boxes that have negative connotations. Out of boxes
that have negative, relationship damaging solutions. Getting our heads
out of spaces that fill us with negative energy.
Put the kids and problems into "These are people who are new to the
world who don't understand how it works. They trust me to help them
meet their needs." box. Kind of a big label! But after a few years
doing this the box will be so full of ideas and happiness there will
be plenty of room for the label! ;-)
Joyce
-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-
I wanted to discuss it because I was reading in another unschooling list and I
was shocked with the choice or
words used by many and even people I thought were sweet and nice.
I was wondering if people who talk meanly about others and their kids can create
a positive environment for their family?
If we are being sarcastic and writing that way how are we acting/ thinking/
speaking to our children in real life?
I am not talking about playful use of curse words and even fun joking around.
My kids and I like that but it is never done with "meanspiritness".
We are Family Guys fans here!
But I do not go aroud saying , nevermind writing, the things I was reading !
Alex
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
an emphasis on thinking as opposed to changing one's actions. When to me it
seems like both are helpful and why choose one over the other when I can do
both?"
-=-=-=-=
But if we change how we see/think/speak off something or someone won't that
chage our actions.
Me wanting to talk about this has nothing to do with the discussion going onat
unchoolingbasics but
Joyce wrote something really good there.
Here it is and I hope it is OK to post it here:
> > How is that different from what i said about 'dragging' my kidsWhat box someone puts an idea into in her head influences how she
> out of
> > the house?
treats it, influences the solutions she comes up with. (Influences.
Not confine. But pushes it in that direction when she wants to move a
different direction.)
Let's say someone puts getting kids out of the house into the "drag"
box in their mental store house. It's a label she sometimes uses for
fun or when she's tired.
That "drag" box also contains dragging dead tree limbs, dragging
yourself out of bed and to work, dragging your attention back to a
dull lecture. Those are all typical images that come to mind when
someone says drag. Those are the images at the top of the box. Those
images are also tiring and draining.
When the kid dragging isn't working, when the kids are balking, it's
very easy for the mom to think in terms of how she solves other
dragging problems. Not because she wants to but because the dragging
box has lots of ideas in it. It even has ideas on how to drag kids
because that's part of conventional parenting. The "help kids in
respectful ways" box has little to none in it.
When mom is getting frazzled, which box is she likely to dip into for
solutions? The familiar, full box? Or the nearly empty box?
One step in living a more joyful life is getting our interactions with
our kids out of boxes that have negative connotations. Out of boxes
that have negative, relationship damaging solutions. Getting our heads
out of spaces that fill us with negative energy.
Put the kids and problems into "These are people who are new to the
world who don't understand how it works. They trust me to help them
meet their needs." box. Kind of a big label! But after a few years
doing this the box will be so full of ideas and happiness there will
be plenty of room for the label! ;-)
Joyce
-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-
I wanted to discuss it because I was reading in another unschooling list and I
was shocked with the choice or
words used by many and even people I thought were sweet and nice.
I was wondering if people who talk meanly about others and their kids can create
a positive environment for their family?
If we are being sarcastic and writing that way how are we acting/ thinking/
speaking to our children in real life?
I am not talking about playful use of curse words and even fun joking around.
My kids and I like that but it is never done with "meanspiritness".
We are Family Guys fans here!
But I do not go aroud saying , nevermind writing, the things I was reading !
Alex
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
>>>One step in living a more joyful life is getting our interactions withour kids out of boxes that have negative connotations. Out of boxes
that have negative, relationship damaging solutions. Getting our heads
out of spaces that fill us with negative energy.<<<
One of the things that I have a full box for that I could afford to throw
away (but the mind is stubborn about throwing out the familiar) is the "Boys
will be Boys" box. It's a phrase I don't actually use but the ideas persist
nonetheless. Especially since I grew up in an all-girl home and it was us
girls, our mom and our Lone Ranger sole-male-in-the-house dad.
The new box I have which I'm filling up with what I would call translations
of "Boys will be Boys" ideas is called something like "Boy's Have Big
Feelings in Need of Expression Too."
What I thought I said clearly but didn't translate earlier in this thread is
that it seems to me that it takes both thought and action to bring about
positive change in relationships. And both need to be honest and congruent,
and to correspond with one another.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-That "drag" box also contains dragging dead tree limbs, dragging
yourself out of bed and to work, dragging your attention back to a
dull lecture. Those are all typical images that come to mind when
someone says drag. Those are the images at the top of the box. Those
images are also tiring and draining.-=-
What they all have in common is that they're a drag. :-)
I don't want to think of parenting as a drag, or as anything having to do with my kids as a drag.
Negativity is a drag on people's spirits and energy.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
yourself out of bed and to work, dragging your attention back to a
dull lecture. Those are all typical images that come to mind when
someone says drag. Those are the images at the top of the box. Those
images are also tiring and draining.-=-
What they all have in common is that they're a drag. :-)
I don't want to think of parenting as a drag, or as anything having to do with my kids as a drag.
Negativity is a drag on people's spirits and energy.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sheeboo2
--But if we change how we see/think/speak off something or someone won't that
chage our actions.---
I think so, yes. For me, changing the words was pivotal to changing the actions (or "REactions").
In the beginning, I needed that space, that pause, to re-form "teach" to "learn" in my mind, for example. It really was like a pause button on a tape player. I'd stop, shift, and start again coming from a place more inline with where I wanted to be. Taking the time to examine my words helped solidify the vision of where I wanted to go. Did I want to work towards partnership and trust or did I want to reinforce the same old shit? A lot of it was action, but most of that action started with thoughts, which for me, are formed with words.
One of my favorite theorists is Jacques Lacan. I had this quote on my refrigerator for years: "the world of words . . . creates the world of things."
I don't know exactly which board you're referring to Alex, but I know I've seen some descriptions of children lately that make me wince too. I feel like a nag sometimes for pointing it out, like the woman who keeps telling people to stop calling her "babe."
This isn't necessarily related to how we talk about children, but it is related to the power of words on reality: A number of years ago I ran a few creative writing workshops for a peace organization that brought Palestinian and Israeli children together. I worked with the adults, not the kids. One of the first things I learned was that in the group, for everyone to feel okay about talking to each other, it had long ago been decided that the countries we know as Israel, the West Bank and Gaza would be called "The Region." I'm a very left-leaning non-zionist Jew, yet the thought that calling/naming Israel Israel created, for some people, the reality of their oppression, had never occurred to me. Intellectually, I'd explored many facets of the Israel/Palestine issue, but even with that Lacan quote on my fridge, I failed to see how borders are drawn with language. I still try to call that geographical area "the Region," but no one ever knows what I'm talking about.
Brie
chage our actions.---
I think so, yes. For me, changing the words was pivotal to changing the actions (or "REactions").
In the beginning, I needed that space, that pause, to re-form "teach" to "learn" in my mind, for example. It really was like a pause button on a tape player. I'd stop, shift, and start again coming from a place more inline with where I wanted to be. Taking the time to examine my words helped solidify the vision of where I wanted to go. Did I want to work towards partnership and trust or did I want to reinforce the same old shit? A lot of it was action, but most of that action started with thoughts, which for me, are formed with words.
One of my favorite theorists is Jacques Lacan. I had this quote on my refrigerator for years: "the world of words . . . creates the world of things."
I don't know exactly which board you're referring to Alex, but I know I've seen some descriptions of children lately that make me wince too. I feel like a nag sometimes for pointing it out, like the woman who keeps telling people to stop calling her "babe."
This isn't necessarily related to how we talk about children, but it is related to the power of words on reality: A number of years ago I ran a few creative writing workshops for a peace organization that brought Palestinian and Israeli children together. I worked with the adults, not the kids. One of the first things I learned was that in the group, for everyone to feel okay about talking to each other, it had long ago been decided that the countries we know as Israel, the West Bank and Gaza would be called "The Region." I'm a very left-leaning non-zionist Jew, yet the thought that calling/naming Israel Israel created, for some people, the reality of their oppression, had never occurred to me. Intellectually, I'd explored many facets of the Israel/Palestine issue, but even with that Lacan quote on my fridge, I failed to see how borders are drawn with language. I still try to call that geographical area "the Region," but no one ever knows what I'm talking about.
Brie
Jenny Cyphers
***I was wondering if people who talk meanly about others and their kids can
create
a positive environment for their family?***
What I've noticed in my own thinking, is that I CAN phrase things in negative
ways or positive ways. How I frame a thought or idea is very much about my own
personal interpretation or perception. That's true for seeing learning
happening. If I only choose to see learning in the same way school does, I
won't be able to unschool well. If I choose to see my child in a negative view,
it feels the same to me as only seeing learning the same way school does.
I don't need to ignore the fact that a child hitting another child is something
to discourage. It doesn't mean the child is bad or terrible, but that she needs
help communicating in another way. If my immediate perception is that the child
is bad or terrible, it colors my feelings and thoughts and words toward that
child. If my immediate perception is that the child needs to find another way
to communicate and is doing something damaging, it helps me see that child in a
way that can be helpful rather than hurtful.
That attitude can be applied to any distasteful child hood behavior. Rather
than say hurtful things about that child or feel hurtful thoughts and put those
out there, it has been incredibly helpful to see my children as wonderful people
that need help with something.
I choose to see the good in my kids and most people. I choose to see the good
in the world. I would certainly hope that my words and actions reflect that!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
create
a positive environment for their family?***
What I've noticed in my own thinking, is that I CAN phrase things in negative
ways or positive ways. How I frame a thought or idea is very much about my own
personal interpretation or perception. That's true for seeing learning
happening. If I only choose to see learning in the same way school does, I
won't be able to unschool well. If I choose to see my child in a negative view,
it feels the same to me as only seeing learning the same way school does.
I don't need to ignore the fact that a child hitting another child is something
to discourage. It doesn't mean the child is bad or terrible, but that she needs
help communicating in another way. If my immediate perception is that the child
is bad or terrible, it colors my feelings and thoughts and words toward that
child. If my immediate perception is that the child needs to find another way
to communicate and is doing something damaging, it helps me see that child in a
way that can be helpful rather than hurtful.
That attitude can be applied to any distasteful child hood behavior. Rather
than say hurtful things about that child or feel hurtful thoughts and put those
out there, it has been incredibly helpful to see my children as wonderful people
that need help with something.
I choose to see the good in my kids and most people. I choose to see the good
in the world. I would certainly hope that my words and actions reflect that!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
I've been really interested in this topic (this week and forever before that), and I'm sorry I didn't get back to it sooner. The world has been all a-swirl for me, online and off this week. Many of the incidents involve language and choice of words.
I'd appreciate it if others on the list would keep this thread alive for a few days so it won't be swept away in the flow of language and words. :-)
Here's something Lori Odhner wrote and published today on her blog Marriage Moats:
----------------------------------------------
Dog Biscuits
Once upon a time there were two sisters, Molly and Polly, chatting about what to give their daughters for Christmas. The notion of puppies came up, and they both agreed it would be a wonderful way to foster responsibility.
Christmas arrived, and the two cousins, Sarah and Tara were thrilled to find yelping little dogs under their trees.
Sarah began training her puppy with patience. She filled her pockets with dog treats each morning, intending to find every trace of good behavior to reward. One day she was trying to teach her spaniel, Priscilla, to wait at the door while she walked up the sidewalk, and when she whistled, to come running to her side. They began with copious hugs and slobbery licks. Then Sarah gently told Priscilla to stay as she walked away, and quickly rewarded her for any brief success. Being young, Priscilla did get distracted easily, and Sarah had to smile and clap to get her attention back. Gradually, as she wanted so much to please Sarah, and enjoyed the dog biscuits she offered, Priscilla learned the behaviors Sarah wanted. Within a few weeks they mastered more tricks, with very little attention given to her mistakes. They both enjoyed their time together, often taking a break from training to simply romp and roll.
Tara began training her collie with an emphasis on discipline. Lucy, she determined, was going to obey her at all times. She began with trying to teach her to stay, but she expected her to sit still for a full minute before rewarding her. Lucy would eagerly look at Tara for a few seconds, but then she would leap off to chase a bird, or sniff an invisible trail. Tara was resolute in her expectations, and refused to reward her for anything less. She scolded Lucy repeatedly, shouting and waving a stick over her head. Eventually Lucy grew tired, put her head on her paws and sat for sixty seconds, mostly to avoid the threatening branch. Tara was surprised at this semi obedience, and shouted praises over her shoulder as she ran back into the house to climb up and find the dog treats in the cupboard.
"Good dog!" she called from the kitchen. By the time she returned Lucy had trotted off to the back yard. Tara was unsure of whether to still reward her, as she was now digging in the garden, so she broke the biscuit in half and gave her a small piece. She was not sure whether to keep working on sitting, or to focus on not digging up her mother's rose bushes. She screamed at Lucy when she started chewing on the gardening gloves left on a wicker chair. Her temper started to flare up, especially since her next door neighbor was watching.
Tara did not enjoy owning a dog as much as she expected she would.
Molly and Polly were shopping together when they talked about how the puppy adventure was going. Molly reached up for two boxes of dog treats to put in her cart.
"Sarah goes through a box every few days. She calls her dog Precious and she really is! They are so cute together. Priscilla follows her everywhere, and looks really sad when Sarah is gone. I am so glad we got her! Need some dog biscuits too?" Molly asked her sister.
Polly sighed. "I think we are still on the first box of treats. Tara is not having much luck. She hardly spends time with Lucy at all anymore. I guess collies are harder to train than spaniels. Lucy still chews all of our shoes, and barks at every car that drives by. Tara calls her Loser, and I guess she is. She breaks things, races through the house and scares little kids."
"Sorry to hear that!" Molly sympathized.
The end.
I have never trained an animal to do anything. But I have managed to modify my family's behavior on occasion. I notice that the scolding was less effective than the encouragement. There is a book called What Shamu Taught Me about Marriage, in which the author looks at the techniques trainers use to get parrots to ride motorcycles and dolphins to clear thirty foot hoops.
I would tell you about it but I see my husband holding a frying pan and smiling at me in a way that makes me want to both salivate and go start supper.
----------------------------------------------
Lori is one of the best writers I've known in my life, but she writes to help families get along better and not to make money. She was one of my first La Leche League Leaders. She and Carol Rice were the leaders when I went to my first meeting in the fall of 1986. I didn't know them apart at first, but that night one of them said "Be your child's partner, not his adversary." I think it was Carol, but I always credit them both because they were a great team as leaders, and they became friends and I'm still in contact with them today. Carol's youngest daughter is over here quite often, still. My trip to the Northeast U.S. next month is based around Lori's invitation to me to speak at a marriage conference she organizes each year on the weekend nearest Valentine's Day.
If you read it fast, please read the story above again, more slowly, when you get a chance.
It's not really a recommendation of operant conditioning. It's a spotlight shone on what seeing the worst and withholding love will reap.
Here it is with the photo that came with it.
http://archive.aweber.com/marriagemoats/1XZAZ/h/Marriage_Moats_Dog_Biscuits.htm
Lori's writings and advice helped me have the solid, peaceful family I have today. There were other influences and helpers too, but today I'm praising Lori again, and I'm glad I'll get to see her in a few weeks. Lori started off unschooling, but is a minister's wife, and twice they've moved to work at a church with an onsite school, and so Lori's duty was there, but her knowledge of love and learning are huge. She is sweet and gentle. For her it has to do with her religion, but others can make those choices of action and language and word choice even if they're atheists. Schuyler Waynforth does. Deb Lewis does and I don't know what she believes about religion.
Some of the harshest, sharpest, meanest people I've known used words as cutting tools, and for them it had to do with their religion.
For me the most important word in the phrase "Language and choice of words" is "choice."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'd appreciate it if others on the list would keep this thread alive for a few days so it won't be swept away in the flow of language and words. :-)
Here's something Lori Odhner wrote and published today on her blog Marriage Moats:
----------------------------------------------
Dog Biscuits
Once upon a time there were two sisters, Molly and Polly, chatting about what to give their daughters for Christmas. The notion of puppies came up, and they both agreed it would be a wonderful way to foster responsibility.
Christmas arrived, and the two cousins, Sarah and Tara were thrilled to find yelping little dogs under their trees.
Sarah began training her puppy with patience. She filled her pockets with dog treats each morning, intending to find every trace of good behavior to reward. One day she was trying to teach her spaniel, Priscilla, to wait at the door while she walked up the sidewalk, and when she whistled, to come running to her side. They began with copious hugs and slobbery licks. Then Sarah gently told Priscilla to stay as she walked away, and quickly rewarded her for any brief success. Being young, Priscilla did get distracted easily, and Sarah had to smile and clap to get her attention back. Gradually, as she wanted so much to please Sarah, and enjoyed the dog biscuits she offered, Priscilla learned the behaviors Sarah wanted. Within a few weeks they mastered more tricks, with very little attention given to her mistakes. They both enjoyed their time together, often taking a break from training to simply romp and roll.
Tara began training her collie with an emphasis on discipline. Lucy, she determined, was going to obey her at all times. She began with trying to teach her to stay, but she expected her to sit still for a full minute before rewarding her. Lucy would eagerly look at Tara for a few seconds, but then she would leap off to chase a bird, or sniff an invisible trail. Tara was resolute in her expectations, and refused to reward her for anything less. She scolded Lucy repeatedly, shouting and waving a stick over her head. Eventually Lucy grew tired, put her head on her paws and sat for sixty seconds, mostly to avoid the threatening branch. Tara was surprised at this semi obedience, and shouted praises over her shoulder as she ran back into the house to climb up and find the dog treats in the cupboard.
"Good dog!" she called from the kitchen. By the time she returned Lucy had trotted off to the back yard. Tara was unsure of whether to still reward her, as she was now digging in the garden, so she broke the biscuit in half and gave her a small piece. She was not sure whether to keep working on sitting, or to focus on not digging up her mother's rose bushes. She screamed at Lucy when she started chewing on the gardening gloves left on a wicker chair. Her temper started to flare up, especially since her next door neighbor was watching.
Tara did not enjoy owning a dog as much as she expected she would.
Molly and Polly were shopping together when they talked about how the puppy adventure was going. Molly reached up for two boxes of dog treats to put in her cart.
"Sarah goes through a box every few days. She calls her dog Precious and she really is! They are so cute together. Priscilla follows her everywhere, and looks really sad when Sarah is gone. I am so glad we got her! Need some dog biscuits too?" Molly asked her sister.
Polly sighed. "I think we are still on the first box of treats. Tara is not having much luck. She hardly spends time with Lucy at all anymore. I guess collies are harder to train than spaniels. Lucy still chews all of our shoes, and barks at every car that drives by. Tara calls her Loser, and I guess she is. She breaks things, races through the house and scares little kids."
"Sorry to hear that!" Molly sympathized.
The end.
I have never trained an animal to do anything. But I have managed to modify my family's behavior on occasion. I notice that the scolding was less effective than the encouragement. There is a book called What Shamu Taught Me about Marriage, in which the author looks at the techniques trainers use to get parrots to ride motorcycles and dolphins to clear thirty foot hoops.
I would tell you about it but I see my husband holding a frying pan and smiling at me in a way that makes me want to both salivate and go start supper.
----------------------------------------------
Lori is one of the best writers I've known in my life, but she writes to help families get along better and not to make money. She was one of my first La Leche League Leaders. She and Carol Rice were the leaders when I went to my first meeting in the fall of 1986. I didn't know them apart at first, but that night one of them said "Be your child's partner, not his adversary." I think it was Carol, but I always credit them both because they were a great team as leaders, and they became friends and I'm still in contact with them today. Carol's youngest daughter is over here quite often, still. My trip to the Northeast U.S. next month is based around Lori's invitation to me to speak at a marriage conference she organizes each year on the weekend nearest Valentine's Day.
If you read it fast, please read the story above again, more slowly, when you get a chance.
It's not really a recommendation of operant conditioning. It's a spotlight shone on what seeing the worst and withholding love will reap.
Here it is with the photo that came with it.
http://archive.aweber.com/marriagemoats/1XZAZ/h/Marriage_Moats_Dog_Biscuits.htm
Lori's writings and advice helped me have the solid, peaceful family I have today. There were other influences and helpers too, but today I'm praising Lori again, and I'm glad I'll get to see her in a few weeks. Lori started off unschooling, but is a minister's wife, and twice they've moved to work at a church with an onsite school, and so Lori's duty was there, but her knowledge of love and learning are huge. She is sweet and gentle. For her it has to do with her religion, but others can make those choices of action and language and word choice even if they're atheists. Schuyler Waynforth does. Deb Lewis does and I don't know what she believes about religion.
Some of the harshest, sharpest, meanest people I've known used words as cutting tools, and for them it had to do with their religion.
For me the most important word in the phrase "Language and choice of words" is "choice."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Something else I have read many times is some unschoolers using the term "
family culture" .
Its sounds like it is used so parents can impose their values or their agenda on
their kids.
Like :
At our house we are Vegans
In our home we don't have TV
Like a decision the parents made about how THEY want their families to be or
live.
Has anyone else heard that before?
I was reading a blog talking about that and I just could not agree with what I
was reading but maybe
I am just not getting it.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
family culture" .
Its sounds like it is used so parents can impose their values or their agenda on
their kids.
Like :
At our house we are Vegans
In our home we don't have TV
Like a decision the parents made about how THEY want their families to be or
live.
Has anyone else heard that before?
I was reading a blog talking about that and I just could not agree with what I
was reading but maybe
I am just not getting it.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marina DeLuca-Howard
I have made lots of choices for my children. I chose to breastfeed, they
started off as vegetarians because I was one, at one point we didn't have a
tv because John and I didn't need one, I chose to treat them respectfully,
and I chose to let them have some decision-making power.
I put my relationship with my child ahead of successfully breastfeeding,
vegetarianism, not owning a tv or providing choices even. If my child is
frustrated and hungry and just wants to eat I take what I know of his likes
and provide food I guess he will eat. I don't torture him by waiting for
him to choose. I can see what he needs.
Children aren't really our equals. A six year old is dependent on mom/dad
to fix food, to purchase it and to earn an income to provide shelter. They
rely on us to provide safety. Giving them space to be themselves and to
develop passions/hobbies/ideas is a gift. One we can choose to give. We
can give our kids respect and love and take their ideas/feelings seriously.
Adults control the resources, but they don't have to be mean about it. They
can be generous with what is available. They can learn to accept their
children's curiosity and allow them to develop their own values. They can
love their kids when their kids make different choices than the ones the
parents expected or wanted for them.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
started off as vegetarians because I was one, at one point we didn't have a
tv because John and I didn't need one, I chose to treat them respectfully,
and I chose to let them have some decision-making power.
I put my relationship with my child ahead of successfully breastfeeding,
vegetarianism, not owning a tv or providing choices even. If my child is
frustrated and hungry and just wants to eat I take what I know of his likes
and provide food I guess he will eat. I don't torture him by waiting for
him to choose. I can see what he needs.
Children aren't really our equals. A six year old is dependent on mom/dad
to fix food, to purchase it and to earn an income to provide shelter. They
rely on us to provide safety. Giving them space to be themselves and to
develop passions/hobbies/ideas is a gift. One we can choose to give. We
can give our kids respect and love and take their ideas/feelings seriously.
Adults control the resources, but they don't have to be mean about it. They
can be generous with what is available. They can learn to accept their
children's curiosity and allow them to develop their own values. They can
love their kids when their kids make different choices than the ones the
parents expected or wanted for them.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Giving them space to be themselves and to
develop passions/hobbies/ideas is a gift. One we can choose to give. We
can give our kids respect and love and take their ideas/feelings seriously.-=-
Holly and I were talking about this just tonight. :-)
Tomorrow Just Add Light and Stir will be about collecting, and links to http://sandradodd.com/focus
Parents can legally and even morally refuse to let their kids collect stuff (depending on the stuff and the circumstances. And there are practical considerations. Someone who lives on a ranch can support a child collecting big rocks better than someone who lives in an RV.
Unschooling sure does change some things!
Children aren't our equals in responsibility or knowledge, but they are our equals (at least) in being whole people. I'm alive now and my parents aren't. I was alive when my parents were childless, and then I was born. And I was me, already. I was not their equal in legal ways, nor physical ways. I was not their equal in knowledge, but at some point I passed them in some ways. Our children will do that, too, for the most part, if we're lucky. I plan to continue to be courteous and respectful of those who might choose my nursing home. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
develop passions/hobbies/ideas is a gift. One we can choose to give. We
can give our kids respect and love and take their ideas/feelings seriously.-=-
Holly and I were talking about this just tonight. :-)
Tomorrow Just Add Light and Stir will be about collecting, and links to http://sandradodd.com/focus
Parents can legally and even morally refuse to let their kids collect stuff (depending on the stuff and the circumstances. And there are practical considerations. Someone who lives on a ranch can support a child collecting big rocks better than someone who lives in an RV.
Unschooling sure does change some things!
Children aren't our equals in responsibility or knowledge, but they are our equals (at least) in being whole people. I'm alive now and my parents aren't. I was alive when my parents were childless, and then I was born. And I was me, already. I was not their equal in legal ways, nor physical ways. I was not their equal in knowledge, but at some point I passed them in some ways. Our children will do that, too, for the most part, if we're lucky. I plan to continue to be courteous and respectful of those who might choose my nursing home. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
d.lewis
***Lori's writings and advice helped me have the solid, peaceful family I
have today***<snip>
***For her it has to do with her religion, but others can make those choices
of action and language and word choice even if they're atheists.***
I'm atheist. Deciding how to live with David and Dylan, how to live in the
world, wasn't about what I thought some god wanted. It was about
considering what would contribute to the wellbeing of others and what
wouldn't.
I know some people think there can be no morality without (a) god. But if
you know that being hit hurts then you know if you hit someone else it's
going to hurt them. You don't need special information from god about
that. You need to pay attention. I want to live! So I assume others do
too and I don't kill them. I want to be well! I assume others do too and
I don't harm them. I want to be happy! I assume others do too and I don't
cause unhappiness.
I can look at the world and see the misery suffering causes. I can stop
contributing to suffering and misery. Even when I don't know how to fix it,
I can at least not contribute to it.
That's overly simplified. But really, it can be simple. Pay attention to
your children so that you know what they need and want. Do the things
that will help your family be well and happy. Avoid the things that don't
contribute to wellbeing and happiness.
Deb Lewis
have today***<snip>
***For her it has to do with her religion, but others can make those choices
of action and language and word choice even if they're atheists.***
I'm atheist. Deciding how to live with David and Dylan, how to live in the
world, wasn't about what I thought some god wanted. It was about
considering what would contribute to the wellbeing of others and what
wouldn't.
I know some people think there can be no morality without (a) god. But if
you know that being hit hurts then you know if you hit someone else it's
going to hurt them. You don't need special information from god about
that. You need to pay attention. I want to live! So I assume others do
too and I don't kill them. I want to be well! I assume others do too and
I don't harm them. I want to be happy! I assume others do too and I don't
cause unhappiness.
I can look at the world and see the misery suffering causes. I can stop
contributing to suffering and misery. Even when I don't know how to fix it,
I can at least not contribute to it.
That's overly simplified. But really, it can be simple. Pay attention to
your children so that you know what they need and want. Do the things
that will help your family be well and happy. Avoid the things that don't
contribute to wellbeing and happiness.
Deb Lewis