Lisa E Biesemeyer

My family is young (4.5yo and two 13mos), and we are basically just beginning
our unschooling journey. Where we live now, there is community for unschoolers
(and homeschoolers of all kinds) as well as mindful parents, and opportunities
for decent employment. However, our local extended family (in-laws) is
unsupportive (except for the occasional generous money gift) and
cold/indifferent to us most of the time, and our distant extended family (my
side) schools and parents (mostly) differently and yet is very warm and
receptive to us (though they think us radical and rather kooky).


I grew up very involved with my extended family, for better or worse, and I am
craving more familial warmth. Moving closer to the distant family would mean
looking for new work and new community (which we could find again), but could
increase extended family (primarily my mom) support systems. Staying put would
mean continuing growing our roots and community, but would be lacking in family
support beyond my mom who flies to be with us every other month (which has both
pros and cons).

Seasoned unschoolers, how has extended family played a role in the success (or
challenges) of unschooling?


Lisa B

Lisa Biesemeyer


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k

My experience is that extended family are no different from most people.
Most people don't live unschooling. They have no idea what the motives for
unschooling are and don't really want to know. That has largely been my
experience of family support, especially my parents who might be more likely
to feel they have a stake in things and therefore exert influence to get our
family off unschooling. Extended family are much more hands-off. I wouldn't
call it cold but they're not as involved. Which is ok with me.

When we visit, extended family are curious rather than all up into our
unschooling. The biggest mistake people make is to assume that my reasons
for unschooling have to do with education primarily. Oh gosh. They don't
have anything to do with education. They have to do with protecting and
extending as much freedom as we can to Karl (and ourselves). Freedom to
enjoy life. Freedom, joy, a larger world. It has way more to do with living
than anything else.

That probably doesn't do much in terms of your thought processes about
moving. For me, unschooling would only be one consideration for or against
moving.

~Katherine



On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Lisa E Biesemeyer <
l.biesemeyer@...> wrote:

> My family is young (4.5yo and two 13mos), and we are basically just
> beginning
> our unschooling journey. Where we live now, there is community for
> unschoolers
> (and homeschoolers of all kinds) as well as mindful parents, and
> opportunities
> for decent employment. However, our local extended family (in-laws) is
> unsupportive (except for the occasional generous money gift) and
> cold/indifferent to us most of the time, and our distant extended family
> (my
> side) schools and parents (mostly) differently and yet is very warm and
> receptive to us (though they think us radical and rather kooky).
>
>
> I grew up very involved with my extended family, for better or worse, and
> I am
> craving more familial warmth. Moving closer to the distant family would
> mean
> looking for new work and new community (which we could find again), but
> could
> increase extended family (primarily my mom) support systems. Staying put
> would
> mean continuing growing our roots and community, but would be lacking in
> family
> support beyond my mom who flies to be with us every other month (which has
> both
> pros and cons).
>
> Seasoned unschoolers, how has extended family played a role in the success
> (or
> challenges) of unschooling?
>
>
> Lisa B
>
> Lisa Biesemeyer
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


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Lisa E Biesemeyer

"Most people don't live unschooling. They have no idea what the motives for
unschooling are and don't really want to know."

Yes. I think physical (as well as virtual) community that *does* have some idea
of what unschooling is and supports a parent's/caregiver's choices to unschool
is important. I am a community-type person, starting and joining communities; I
do well on my own, too.


I'm seeking closeness with warm, more respectful/interested family (closeness in
proximity and relationships) in addition to not related community. I *think* I
would be able to find/start community where we would moving to, and the lack of
warmth and often passive aggressive interactions with the family that is nearby
is growing tiresome for my husband and me. I don't think I'm naive, though; I
get that more involvement from family often means more interference. That is why
I am asking the question about experiences with extended family and unschooling.

"They have to do with protecting and extending as much freedom as we can to Karl
(and ourselves). Freedom to
enjoy life. Freedom, joy, a larger world. It has way more to do with living than
anything else."

Yes. I absolutely agree with this as a primary reasons for unschooling *my*
children as well. And, sadly, that need and desire to protect them extends to
family as well. I feel like my distant more "warm" family could understand and
or respect my family's values more so than the local extended family does. Does
that mean that extended families' participation in our lives makes for more
successful unschooling? Maybe. Maybe not.


"That probably doesn't do much in terms of your thought processes about
moving. For me, unschooling would only be one consideration for or against
moving."

I presented the situation, the moving dilemma, more as background info; I'm not
so much interested in advice about whether or not I move. I'm really interested
in what you did tell me, though, about *your* (and other's) experiences with
extended family (including grandparents) as it relates to unschooling.

Lisa B


Lisa Biesemeyer




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Kelly Lovejoy

-----Original Message-----
From: Lisa E Biesemeyer <l.biesemeyer@...>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Extended Family and Successful Unschooling



I presented the situation, the moving dilemma, more as background info; I'm not
so much interested in advice about whether or not I move. I'm really interested
in what you did tell me, though, about *your* (and other's) experiences with
extended family (including grandparents) as it relates to unschooling.


-=-=-=-=-=-=-


One of the negatives of having "cooler" family live far away is that when they/you visit is that they/you tend to stay longer---AND in the others' house. When they live a bit closer, you can keep visits short and easily meet at neutral spots.


I live in the same town as my mother, but at different ends. Our visits can last a few hours, and everyone then goes home. OR we can meet somewhere neutral---restaurant/playground. When we lived in Germany and St Louis, visits would involve airfare; and she would move in and S.T.A.Y. quite a while.


Just another angle.


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson






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Sandra Dodd

-=- I *think* I
would be able to find/start community where we would moving to, and the lack of
warmth and often passive aggressive interactions with the family that is nearby
is growing tiresome for my husband and me. I don't think I'm naive, though; I
get that more involvement from family often means more interference. -=-

But having "community" can lead to more interference too. Making friends is one thing; each friendship is individual and separate from other friendships.

-=-I presented the situation, the moving dilemma, more as background info; I'm not
so much interested in advice about whether or not I move. I'm really interested
in what you did tell me, though, about *your* (and other's) experiences with
extended family (including grandparents) as it relates to unschooling.-=-

Using moving as an example, though, is important.

-=I feel like my distant more "warm" family could understand and
or respect my family's values more so than the local extended family does. -=-

It is possible (it is, in some cases, definitely true) that the distant relatives seem warm because they're distant. Or because visits are rare, they withhold criticism. Or maybe they don't see details and so don't comment. I've had near and distant relatives. I've heard stories of people moving to other states (even other countries) to get nearer people they expected to have be as warm as they were on infrequent visits, but when they were local, the warmth became everyday, distracted, busy behavior. It wasn't meanness. It was the difference between being on vacation and being at work, or between being a houseguest, and being back home with all the responsibilities and laundry and errands and floors.

This might not apply at all in your instance, Lisa, but it's important to let these discussions move where they go. Sometimes what people think their question is becomes overshadowed by other issues, which is natural and inevitable.

Moving doesn't always change things.
Unschoolers (nor anyone with similar interests or beliefs) have no obligation to become community with other unschoolers.

I think finding friends is a great plan, but starting community isn't as great.

Sandra

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otherstar

>>>But having "community" can lead to more interference too. Making friends is one thing; each friendship is individual and separate from other friendships.<<<

I tend to shy away from participation in too much community because my kids are still rather young (9, 6, 3.5, 23 months) because being a part of a larger community often times leads to more obligations than I can handle. I tend to focus on friends rather than community. It is much easier to schedule get togethers with one or two people than it is to be obligated to a community type group.

>>>It is possible (it is, in some cases, definitely true) that the distant relatives seem warm because they're distant. Or because visits are rare, they withhold criticism. Or maybe they don't see details and so don't comment. I've had near and distant relatives. I've heard stories of people moving to other states (even other countries) to get nearer people they expected to have be as warm as they were on infrequent visits, but when they were local, the warmth became everyday, distracted, busy behavior. It wasn't meanness. It was the difference between being on vacation and being at work, or between being a houseguest, and being back home with all the responsibilities and laundry and errands and floors.<<<

My husband and I moved away from my family to be closer to his family. When we made the move several years ago, we knew that we were going to homeschool but hadn't yet decided to unschool. I hadn't even really heard of unschooling at that point in time. I thought that moving closer to his family would be nice because his family seemed to be very community oriented. There were a lot of things about his family that I liked. They led me to believe that things would be one way when we got there but they were actually totally different. I never realized how critical my husband's parents were because we only saw them once a year. Being around them all the time made me realize that we had made a bad decision. We ended up moving back to where we had lived before the move. My family isn't perfect but at least they were a lot more open to homeschooling. Unschooling didn't even enter into the equation. My family can be critical at times but my girls really like them because they tend to be rather laid back and are at least more open to exploring new ideas.

>>>Unschoolers (nor anyone with similar interests or beliefs) have no obligation to become community with other unschoolers.<<<

I have found that my family gets a lot more out of hanging out with people of all different types of beliefs. When I try to be a part of communities that are based on a common belief (whether it be unschooling, religion, or anything else), I find that I get too narrow minded and forget to see that there is a much larger world beyond that.

Connie

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k

>>>I have found that my family gets a lot more out of hanging out with
people of all different types of beliefs. When I try to be a part of
communities that are based on a common belief (whether it be unschooling,
religion, or anything else), I find that I get too narrow minded<<<

This is interesting. The thing about communities is that there are
expectations that come with them (which is what "common belief" is). We
started going to a Unitarian Universalist church last year or so. We have
all gotten sporadic about going at this point. At first I got into the
political/social justice idea, then I felt that it was much more and a
different involvement than I wanted for going to church or even just hanging
out with people. And I *like* their ideas very much. That's no problem. I'm
just feel very hedged in by the singular mindset even of very likeminds, and
would prefer to branch out into other interests. Maybe that will come with
more time and familiarity.

One of the things being into art and into unschooling have done for me is to
bring a greater appreciation for all kinds of thinking, thoughts, activities
and expressions than is usual to see within any community I've ever been
part of. We still hang loosely with our beloved UU. I still keep in touch
with some of the people I met when I was more into art, and I've met more
artists since then. We love to travel but it's just us. Brian is getting
more into music. Karl has friends and lots of cousins locally as well the
occasional visit with those who live far away, family (who we visit about
twice a year) and friends. For myself, I like the library.

For me, all this does have a lot to do with the individual as well as to an
additional interest in diversity. I sometimes wonder how much of liking my
own company and doing things by myself has to do with childhood
conditioning. Probably more than I'd like to admit to even. Bringing that
thought back around to unschooling, it's something I have noticed in myself
that I don't like about relating with my child. Getting out of the
programmed rut of staying on my own thing so much would be better for me and
Karl.

So I went off on a tangent.

~Katherine


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sheeboo2

I saw this message come through while we were away (visiting extended family) on another tour of DC. I've been thinking about the OP's question(s) a lot since I first read them and find the way the conversation has moved interesting.

We moved from Alaska to the east coast to be closer to family. My husband has a 14 year-old daughter who lives here, and being closer to her trumped the amazing community we'd built for ourselves during the 10 yrs we lived up north. At the time, dh's mom lived in the UK (now she is split between DC and Vermont), and my dad, stepmom, brother, step-brothers, a few nieces and nephews and uncle are here too.

For us, being close to extended family has absolutely added to our success with unschooling. Our case is "extreme": My husband, daughter and I now live with my dad and stepmom because we couldn't afford to live on one salary otherwise. While I did work, having grandma available to watch our daughter made that possible.

Both of my parents grew up in multi-family homes with their grandparents and in my mom's case, an aunt, uncle and their two kids as well (big old Brooklyn brownstones, though, where everyone had their own apartment). For the last years of both my grandmothers' lives, they lived with my parents (who by that time were divorced). Growing up, I used to long for the kind of lives my mom and dad talked about--going downstairs to grandma's apartment for cookies and a story, going upstairs to see what aunt and uncle made for dinner when the home-fare wasn't desirable, always a safe place to retreat to when family life was overwhelming.

It wouldn't be the whole story to say that the only way extended family help our unschooling is with financial support. My daughter's life is so much richer for having more loving adults in her daily life. She builds things with my dad, she reads with her grandmother. While she sometimes talks about missing our little apartment, she is very clear that right now, she wants to live with her grandparents forever. It isn't always easy (for me and Michael) but the benefits far outweigh the draw-backs.

Our situation isn't always possible, or the "best" choice, though. A few years ago I was offered a great job at a small university not too far from my mother-in-law. We were already committed to homeschooling, and decided my husband would be the stay-at-home parent if I took the job. We found a house and were getting ready to sign a lease when we realized that living that close to my MIL wouldn't be a good thing for our family. Her relationship with dh was never one built on honesty and respect. It has, for the most part, been pretty toxic, actually, and we realized she wouldn't respect our boundaries--that she'd be too much a part of our lives.

There is more I could say about community vs. family, but I think it comes down to what your relationships with each really are. What works for one family won't work for another. One family may trust where another is skeptical, or worse (as we feared with my MIL), try to sabotage unschooling.

Brie

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

A lot of parens  forget that sometimes , even if they don't get along with
their parents and/or in-laws, their children may love those and miss them and
want to see them despite their ways.
I say that as a child that grew up absolutely loving my grandparents despite any
issues with their relatinship with my parents.
I see how my kids love their cousins  and grandparents.
I did resent my mom for complaining about her mother-in-law, my gandmother. I
wish she had not.
By the end of my granmother's life thy became best friends and they wasted
somuch time before!

 I keep any issues that arrise with family between me and my husband.
Of course our extended family have their issues but they can also be great and
are good people.
They know we homeschool but we have never gone into details over what exactly we
do at all.
When my mother-in-law used to buy work books for our son when he turned
kindergarten age we thanked her.
It does make it easy that our son was reading extremely well early so I think
their worries went away. Plus I make sure to give then updates that they can
brag about to friends. All grandparents like that.

 
Alex Polikowsky

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k

>>>By the end of my granmother's life thy became best friends and they
wasted somuch time before!<<<

Or maybe they would have fought in person more had they been closer at an
earlier time in their lives and wouldn't have been ready to be friends yet.
You might have seen a side of your grandmother you wouldn't have liked much,
and of your mom too.

People have disagreements and while those disagreements are still on, they
may fight one another or sabotage each other's lives, etc. My aunt died last
week of a lingering illness. All the way up to the end, she had family
telling her she "better get right with the Lord" while her thinking was that
she was alright with God. At this point in her life, she had moved to be
closer with family. :( Turned out not to be the best idea. I'm an adult and
I didn't really want to see any of that. I heard about it a lot and was
appalled at it on the occasion of a big surprise birthday party given for
her by her best friend to which all the family were invited.

I love it when feuders decide to drop disagreements or see where other
people are coming from, and might be friends. But I don't thinking moving
guarantees this.

~Katherine


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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

 
 
<<<Or maybe they would have fought in person more had they been closer at an
earlier time in their lives and wouldn't have been ready to be friends yet.
You might have seen a side of your grandmother you wouldn't have liked much,
and of your mom too.>>>>
 
We did visit her almost every week. It was like the cold war. Not something they
 were open about it. It was a lot about my mother;s lack of selfsteem.
She needed to rebel since her own mother was one of those mothers who controlled
everything.
Even as a teenager my mother could not choose what to wear, how to wear her hair
and much more.
To this day my mother can react to stuff if she thinks someome is trying to
control her or tell her what to do.
We talk about her childhood and that helps her realize how so much of those
reactions come from all the controling she suffered when she was younger.
 
I am so glad I handle family a lot different then my mother did. I am also much
more confident about my choices and how we live our life and I do
not let things affect me. I also try to see the positive in everyone and their
good intentions. It helps to assume the best from people.
 
Alex Polikowsky

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