handling other people
m_aduhene
hi,
i am very aware of other people and their opinions of me and always want to seem to be doing right in their eyes. this is not good most of the time.
for example, tonight at my daughter's brownie's group i could not find her sash which holds her badges and her promise badge. my daughter was upset(not crying just making known she wasn't happy, not in a shouting way, just as in "it's not fair i won't get my smart brownie badge....brown owl please can i still have the badge." i said i was sorry to brown owl and to abygail that i couldn't find it and that it was my fault. brown owl then put her finger to her lips and said to my daughter "now don't sulk, put that bottom lip away (almost "come on stop it now" in that tone, not jokingly). unfortunately becos i then get embarrassed and think oh no abygail is being unreasonable (which she wasn't, just upset) i then get a bit annoyed with her and use the wrong tones etc. i am more concerned that brown owl sees me as the parent i think she thinks i should be......and this is wrong on my part.
she is a very firm woman and has trained her dog to perfection with control techniques(she has no children ....) she is lovely and i don't like to offend but i felt she was wrong in this situation to speak to abygail like that when i was present. i know we always meet people who parent differently but how do i stick up for my views and not let my negative side come out?
another example is abygail is very strong willed and if i say no to something then she understandably is annoyed. i say no rarely but she wanted a sleepover after brownies and i said not tonight becos it would have meant lots of cycling about in the rain to sort it out. we'd been out all day and i was just too tired. me and the other mum agreed on the next week for the sleep over. i let her rant at me on the way home becos she was upset and tired and hungry. this was fine on the privacy of our walk home but she does sometimes verbalise loudly in front of others who i interpret as looking at me as if i am at fault and can't control her. again my impression of what they are thinking.
she is 9 and does not do this a lot, but how do i handle my feelings in the light of how i think others are perceiving me and my parenting?
sorry long winded
blessings
michelle
i am very aware of other people and their opinions of me and always want to seem to be doing right in their eyes. this is not good most of the time.
for example, tonight at my daughter's brownie's group i could not find her sash which holds her badges and her promise badge. my daughter was upset(not crying just making known she wasn't happy, not in a shouting way, just as in "it's not fair i won't get my smart brownie badge....brown owl please can i still have the badge." i said i was sorry to brown owl and to abygail that i couldn't find it and that it was my fault. brown owl then put her finger to her lips and said to my daughter "now don't sulk, put that bottom lip away (almost "come on stop it now" in that tone, not jokingly). unfortunately becos i then get embarrassed and think oh no abygail is being unreasonable (which she wasn't, just upset) i then get a bit annoyed with her and use the wrong tones etc. i am more concerned that brown owl sees me as the parent i think she thinks i should be......and this is wrong on my part.
she is a very firm woman and has trained her dog to perfection with control techniques(she has no children ....) she is lovely and i don't like to offend but i felt she was wrong in this situation to speak to abygail like that when i was present. i know we always meet people who parent differently but how do i stick up for my views and not let my negative side come out?
another example is abygail is very strong willed and if i say no to something then she understandably is annoyed. i say no rarely but she wanted a sleepover after brownies and i said not tonight becos it would have meant lots of cycling about in the rain to sort it out. we'd been out all day and i was just too tired. me and the other mum agreed on the next week for the sleep over. i let her rant at me on the way home becos she was upset and tired and hungry. this was fine on the privacy of our walk home but she does sometimes verbalise loudly in front of others who i interpret as looking at me as if i am at fault and can't control her. again my impression of what they are thinking.
she is 9 and does not do this a lot, but how do i handle my feelings in the light of how i think others are perceiving me and my parenting?
sorry long winded
blessings
michelle
Sandra Dodd
-=- she is lovely and i don't like to offend but i felt she was wrong
in this situation to speak to abygail like that when i was present. i
know we always meet people who parent differently but how do i stick
up for my views and not let my negative side come out?-=-
It seems to me, from a distance, that ALL of that happened because you
didn't have the sash.
-=-, tonight at my daughter's brownie's group i could not find her
sash which holds her badges and her promise badge. -=-
Was it in the car? In your bag? Back at the house?
Part of scouting is being prepared. :-)
Before any meeting like that (way before, like 24 hours before) all
the materials should be in one place, ready to go.
-=-another example is abygail is very strong willed and if i say no to
something then she understandably is annoyed. i say no rarely but she
wanted a sleepover after brownies and i said not tonight becos it
would have meant lots of cycling about in the rain to sort it out. -=-
No phones? No car? Was the other mom at the meeting when your
daughter first asked?
Things work best when moms try to facilitate what's needed in
advance. I'm guessing you're thinking OF COURSE I KNOW THAT! but many
of the stories people bring here about their kids being upset turn out
to be situations that could have been avoided, but the mom is looking
at the moment when the younger child didn't like having the toy taken
away, rather than backing up and up and up two or three steps to see
that the older child needed something ten minutes before that point.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
in this situation to speak to abygail like that when i was present. i
know we always meet people who parent differently but how do i stick
up for my views and not let my negative side come out?-=-
It seems to me, from a distance, that ALL of that happened because you
didn't have the sash.
-=-, tonight at my daughter's brownie's group i could not find her
sash which holds her badges and her promise badge. -=-
Was it in the car? In your bag? Back at the house?
Part of scouting is being prepared. :-)
Before any meeting like that (way before, like 24 hours before) all
the materials should be in one place, ready to go.
-=-another example is abygail is very strong willed and if i say no to
something then she understandably is annoyed. i say no rarely but she
wanted a sleepover after brownies and i said not tonight becos it
would have meant lots of cycling about in the rain to sort it out. -=-
No phones? No car? Was the other mom at the meeting when your
daughter first asked?
Things work best when moms try to facilitate what's needed in
advance. I'm guessing you're thinking OF COURSE I KNOW THAT! but many
of the stories people bring here about their kids being upset turn out
to be situations that could have been avoided, but the mom is looking
at the moment when the younger child didn't like having the toy taken
away, rather than backing up and up and up two or three steps to see
that the older child needed something ten minutes before that point.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
"but how do i handle my feelings in the light of how i think others are
perceiving me and my parenting?"
When Simon and Linnaea were littler they both had long hair that frequently went
un-brushed and uncombed. It was matted and wild and like felt in some sections.
And I had a really hard time with the knowledge that others would judge me as
lacking as a parent. It took me a lot of internal debates to get to a point
where I was comfortable with the fact that it was their hair, their bodies,
their selves and that they weren't reflections of me. It helped a lot that they
were willing to be brushed for things where I really felt their appearance was
important, like going through customs when travelling or going to the doctor's
or the dentist's who can report children they feel are not being cared for to
social services. It helped a lot for me to be obviously attentive and loving and
engaged with them when we were out. And it took real knowledge that people
actually don't really care all that much about what some strangers are doing. Or
even what some acquaintances are doing and if we were friends, well they weren't
that fussed to begin with.
If your daughter wasn't bothered by the admonition of her Brownie leader it
isn't really that valuable for you to be. It is a waste of energy and concern
and worry on your part. Next time make sure you have all of the pieces of her
kit together for Brownie lessons well in advance of going. It's easy to feel
like you let your daughter and her Brownie leader down, you did. Use that
feeling to make sure that you've got everything together for next time, or to
help your daughter to get everything in one place so that it's easy and quick to
gather up to take along. Have lists on the fridge or the door or a whiteboard in
the hall of everything you need to have together for whatever things you and
your children are committed to doing. Add to it when something is added and
subtract from it when something is taken away. It really helps if you are
disorganized generally to have in place things that will cover for your lack of
structure. Take more time to make sure that you and your daughter are fed before
going out, bring snacks and drinks for the walk home. If you've had a really
busy day, up your energy before you go do something else. Add that to your
lists.
Sometimes no's are hard to take. That's fair enough. I get grouchy sometimes
when I get a no even if it is absolutely understandable. And if you were tired
my guess is that your daughter was also tired. Be forgiving and generous and
don't feel like all that you've done so far should mean that she's always happy
with you, always understanding.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: m_aduhene <m_aduhene@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, 15 October, 2010 22:08:25
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] handling other people
hi,
i am very aware of other people and their opinions of me and always want to seem
to be doing right in their eyes. this is not good most of the time.
for example, tonight at my daughter's brownie's group i could not find her sash
which holds her badges and her promise badge. my daughter was upset(not crying
just making known she wasn't happy, not in a shouting way, just as in "it's not
fair i won't get my smart brownie badge....brown owl please can i still have the
badge." i said i was sorry to brown owl and to abygail that i couldn't find it
and that it was my fault. brown owl then put her finger to her lips and said to
my daughter "now don't sulk, put that bottom lip away (almost "come on stop it
now" in that tone, not jokingly). unfortunately becos i then get embarrassed
and think oh no abygail is being unreasonable (which she wasn't, just upset) i
then get a bit annoyed with her and use the wrong tones etc. i am more
concerned that brown owl sees me as the parent i think she thinks i should
be......and this is wrong on my part.
she is a very firm woman and has trained her dog to perfection with control
techniques(she has no children ....) she is lovely and i don't like to offend
but i felt she was wrong in this situation to speak to abygail like that when i
was present. i know we always meet people who parent differently but how do i
stick up for my views and not let my negative side come out?
another example is abygail is very strong willed and if i say no to something
then she understandably is annoyed. i say no rarely but she wanted a sleepover
after brownies and i said not tonight becos it would have meant lots of cycling
about in the rain to sort it out. we'd been out all day and i was just too
tired. me and the other mum agreed on the next week for the sleep over. i let
her rant at me on the way home becos she was upset and tired and hungry. this
was fine on the privacy of our walk home but she does sometimes verbalise loudly
in front of others who i interpret as looking at me as if i am at fault and
can't control her. again my impression of what they are thinking.
she is 9 and does not do this a lot, but how do i handle my feelings in the
light of how i think others are perceiving me and my parenting?
sorry long winded
blessings
michelle
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
perceiving me and my parenting?"
When Simon and Linnaea were littler they both had long hair that frequently went
un-brushed and uncombed. It was matted and wild and like felt in some sections.
And I had a really hard time with the knowledge that others would judge me as
lacking as a parent. It took me a lot of internal debates to get to a point
where I was comfortable with the fact that it was their hair, their bodies,
their selves and that they weren't reflections of me. It helped a lot that they
were willing to be brushed for things where I really felt their appearance was
important, like going through customs when travelling or going to the doctor's
or the dentist's who can report children they feel are not being cared for to
social services. It helped a lot for me to be obviously attentive and loving and
engaged with them when we were out. And it took real knowledge that people
actually don't really care all that much about what some strangers are doing. Or
even what some acquaintances are doing and if we were friends, well they weren't
that fussed to begin with.
If your daughter wasn't bothered by the admonition of her Brownie leader it
isn't really that valuable for you to be. It is a waste of energy and concern
and worry on your part. Next time make sure you have all of the pieces of her
kit together for Brownie lessons well in advance of going. It's easy to feel
like you let your daughter and her Brownie leader down, you did. Use that
feeling to make sure that you've got everything together for next time, or to
help your daughter to get everything in one place so that it's easy and quick to
gather up to take along. Have lists on the fridge or the door or a whiteboard in
the hall of everything you need to have together for whatever things you and
your children are committed to doing. Add to it when something is added and
subtract from it when something is taken away. It really helps if you are
disorganized generally to have in place things that will cover for your lack of
structure. Take more time to make sure that you and your daughter are fed before
going out, bring snacks and drinks for the walk home. If you've had a really
busy day, up your energy before you go do something else. Add that to your
lists.
Sometimes no's are hard to take. That's fair enough. I get grouchy sometimes
when I get a no even if it is absolutely understandable. And if you were tired
my guess is that your daughter was also tired. Be forgiving and generous and
don't feel like all that you've done so far should mean that she's always happy
with you, always understanding.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: m_aduhene <m_aduhene@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, 15 October, 2010 22:08:25
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] handling other people
hi,
i am very aware of other people and their opinions of me and always want to seem
to be doing right in their eyes. this is not good most of the time.
for example, tonight at my daughter's brownie's group i could not find her sash
which holds her badges and her promise badge. my daughter was upset(not crying
just making known she wasn't happy, not in a shouting way, just as in "it's not
fair i won't get my smart brownie badge....brown owl please can i still have the
badge." i said i was sorry to brown owl and to abygail that i couldn't find it
and that it was my fault. brown owl then put her finger to her lips and said to
my daughter "now don't sulk, put that bottom lip away (almost "come on stop it
now" in that tone, not jokingly). unfortunately becos i then get embarrassed
and think oh no abygail is being unreasonable (which she wasn't, just upset) i
then get a bit annoyed with her and use the wrong tones etc. i am more
concerned that brown owl sees me as the parent i think she thinks i should
be......and this is wrong on my part.
she is a very firm woman and has trained her dog to perfection with control
techniques(she has no children ....) she is lovely and i don't like to offend
but i felt she was wrong in this situation to speak to abygail like that when i
was present. i know we always meet people who parent differently but how do i
stick up for my views and not let my negative side come out?
another example is abygail is very strong willed and if i say no to something
then she understandably is annoyed. i say no rarely but she wanted a sleepover
after brownies and i said not tonight becos it would have meant lots of cycling
about in the rain to sort it out. we'd been out all day and i was just too
tired. me and the other mum agreed on the next week for the sleep over. i let
her rant at me on the way home becos she was upset and tired and hungry. this
was fine on the privacy of our walk home but she does sometimes verbalise loudly
in front of others who i interpret as looking at me as if i am at fault and
can't control her. again my impression of what they are thinking.
she is 9 and does not do this a lot, but how do i handle my feelings in the
light of how i think others are perceiving me and my parenting?
sorry long winded
blessings
michelle
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Claire
>>> i am very aware of other people and their opinions of me and always want to seem to be doing right in their eyes.>>>This to me speaks of a lack of personal confidence and empowerment. I know because for most of my life I have wanted others' approval and have needed to feel like everybody liked me. Only in the last few years, as part of my unschooling journey, have I been able to develop the inner confidence and deep understanding that parenting in this peaceful, loving, respectful way is right, for me and for my children. Consequently others' judgements hold less and less sway over me. It is sometimes not easy to be the odd one out, to take a very different path to what most parents would do, but I am finding more and more that in any given circumstance I am primarily concerned with my kids and their well-being, rather than with what others may think. I don't mean by this that I have no consideration for other people, rather that someone's judgement that I'm being 'too lenient' for example, is just not meaningful in the context of my relationship with my kids.
>>>i am more concerned that brown owl sees me as the parent i think she thinks i should be......and this is wrong on my part. she is a very firm woman and has trained her dog to perfection with controltechniques(she has no children ....) >>>>
So this woman has no kids and has used strict techniques to train her dog. Why are her opinions on parenting, or rather your perception of her opinions on parenting, valuable in your eyes? I mean that seriously, not sarcastically. Is it because she projects an aura of control, of being in charge, of knowing what she is doing? One of the key concepts of unschooling is letting go of the idea of controlling our kids. Partnering, being a team - these ideas are much more useful in building loving, trusting relationships. It has been discussed before on this list that often those who exert a great deal of external control have very little inner security. Far better to turn away from the idea of trying to control others and instead work on building one's own inner confidence. And when that happens, when a parent has deeply grasped these unschooling ideas and puts them into practice every day, she does project an aura of confidence and knowing what she is doing. This aura of confidence is not smugness, but rather a deep sense of 'I am fit to be my child's parent', 'I am working hard to keep our relationship strong', 'I am at peace with myself and am guided by my love for my child'.
Claire
Melbourne, Australia
Kids - Ashlin, 5 & Eden, 3
Robin Bentley
> i am more concerned that brown owl sees me as the parent i thinkYes, it is wrong. I know because I did it, too. I wonder if this is
> she thinks i should be......and this is wrong on my part.
about your upbringing? It was my issue for too long that *I* should
look good in an "authority's" estimation. British/Canadian military
childhood, I guess.
It seemed more important to me that I was seen to "handle" my daughter
and being doing the "right" thing, in the other person's eyes. Not in
my daughter's eyes and not in my own either (not how I wanted to
parent). Yikes! Too many years of doing what was expected of me (other
than the occasional rebellion) came home to roost in my parenting, to
Senna's detriment.
> she is a very firm woman and has trained her dog to perfection withAnd you don't want to risk her disapproval. I know...
> control techniques(she has no children ....)
> she is lovely and i don't like to offend but i felt she was wrong inBe more confident in what you want. The relationship you want with
> this situation to speak to abygail like that when i was present. i
> know we always meet people who parent differently but how do i stick
> up for my views and not let my negative side come out?
your daughter will always be more important than the one you have with
a-moment-in-your-child's-life-brown owl. It can be hard, when your
conditioning says to get approval from people you consider authority
figures. But if you don't, it will whittle away at your child's trust
in you to be her partner.
> another example is abygail is very strong willed and if i say no toOops, it's rearing it's head again, that need for the approval of
> something then she understandably is annoyed. i say no rarely but
> she wanted a sleepover after brownies and i said not tonight becos
> it would have meant lots of cycling about in the rain to sort it
> out. we'd been out all day and i was just too tired. me and the
> other mum agreed on the next week for the sleep over. i let her
> rant at me on the way home becos she was upset and tired and
> hungry. this was fine on the privacy of our walk home but she does
> sometimes verbalise loudly in front of others who i interpret as
> looking at me as if i am at fault and can't control her.
others. Even strangers!
> again my impression of what they are thinking.While it's important to consider the comfort of others in public
places if your daughter's upset is disturbing people, it's also your
job to find a safe place for her to "lose it." Plan for an escape
route, be proactive.
Another thing to look at here: were you prepared to be out all day?
Did you have food, opportunities for downtime and closeness for both
of you? Preparation can deal with the hunger, tiredness and
consequently, the upset. If we don't plan well, our kids suffer the
most for it. That goes for such things as forgetting/not finding her
sash.
> she is 9 and does not do this a lot, but how do i handle my feelingsSorry to be blunt, but "get over it". A dear friend finally said that
> in the light of how i think others are perceiving me and my parenting?
to me, perhaps with more subtlety, but it made an impression. Be on
your kid's side, always. Help her negotiate tricky situations. Be her
advocate to help her get what she wants, in appropriate ways. Talk
with her afterward and brainstorm ways to do better the next time.
Robin B.
JustSayin
I have also been very concerned throughout my life about what others think of me. It gets a lot better with age ;> And it's not as easy as saying "just get over it". There is an "automatic" survival response when you feel like someone is thinking you are not good enough.
But you can get better with practice. If you just recognize the auto-response rising up, you can sometimes stop it, or just remove yourself from the scene until you can get your bearings.
This happened to me recently - my sister was visiting, and she and my mom (a really emotionally unhealthy dynamic duo) were at our house. My boys started having an altercation over a video game (nothing new there ;>). I started responding to my beautiful boys the way I thought my very critical mom and sister expected me to, instead of how I would normally help them through these things.
It felt terrible, and I noticed that feeling right away (in the past, this might have taken reflection to see, after some damage to my relationship with my boys had already been done, but now I can see (or feel) it immediately). So before I got down a road with my boys that was not MY road, I said "excuse me a minute" and I went into the boys room and just lied down on the bed (I was dog tired from all the stress my visiting family gives me, real or imagined ;>, so a rest wasn't a bad idea anyway).
Minutes later my boys came in happy and talking with me, altercation completely forgotten, and when we came out I just said to mom and sister "sorry, I guess I just needed to lie down!"
I was able to remove myself before I treated my boys in a way I would never treat them if I wasn't trying to please a very critical audience.
I'm not saying physically removing yourself is always the best way, but it was the best way for me in this situation, because I didn't see how to get out of the spiral of judgment and disapproval that was a common theme in my own childhood.
This may seem like nothing, or even silly, to those strong or confident enough not to let the judgment of onlookers bother them, but it was a pretty big and positive step for me.
--Melissa (FL)
But you can get better with practice. If you just recognize the auto-response rising up, you can sometimes stop it, or just remove yourself from the scene until you can get your bearings.
This happened to me recently - my sister was visiting, and she and my mom (a really emotionally unhealthy dynamic duo) were at our house. My boys started having an altercation over a video game (nothing new there ;>). I started responding to my beautiful boys the way I thought my very critical mom and sister expected me to, instead of how I would normally help them through these things.
It felt terrible, and I noticed that feeling right away (in the past, this might have taken reflection to see, after some damage to my relationship with my boys had already been done, but now I can see (or feel) it immediately). So before I got down a road with my boys that was not MY road, I said "excuse me a minute" and I went into the boys room and just lied down on the bed (I was dog tired from all the stress my visiting family gives me, real or imagined ;>, so a rest wasn't a bad idea anyway).
Minutes later my boys came in happy and talking with me, altercation completely forgotten, and when we came out I just said to mom and sister "sorry, I guess I just needed to lie down!"
I was able to remove myself before I treated my boys in a way I would never treat them if I wasn't trying to please a very critical audience.
I'm not saying physically removing yourself is always the best way, but it was the best way for me in this situation, because I didn't see how to get out of the spiral of judgment and disapproval that was a common theme in my own childhood.
This may seem like nothing, or even silly, to those strong or confident enough not to let the judgment of onlookers bother them, but it was a pretty big and positive step for me.
--Melissa (FL)
--- In [email protected], "m_aduhene" <m_aduhene@...> wrote:
>
> hi,
> i am very aware of other people and their opinions of me and always want to seem to be doing right in their eyes. this is not good most of the time.
Robin Bentley
>It helped, for sure, especially when something I would do to look good
> I'm not saying physically removing yourself is always the best way,
> but it was the best way for me in this situation, because I didn't
> see how to get out of the spiral of judgment and disapproval that
> was a common theme in my own childhood.
>
> This may seem like nothing, or even silly, to those strong or
> confident enough not to let the judgment of onlookers bother them,
> but it was a pretty big and positive step for me.
>
might make things worse. But there were too many times that I removed
myself and left my daughter to fend for herself when she really needed
my presence. She needed me to "get over it" (my discomfort or
embarrassment) to help her, not disappear.
I thought it was a good strategy, so that I could regain my composure,
but just as often it was me escaping the situation so I wouldn't have
to deal with it.
It wasn't helpful for our relationship, neither in the short term, nor
the long.
Robin B.
Sandra Dodd
-=-It helped, for sure, especially when something I would do to look
good
might make things worse. But there were too many times that I removed
myself and left my daughter to fend for herself when she really needed
my presence. She needed me to "get over it" (my discomfort or
embarrassment) to help her, not disappear.-=-
I think it depends how long the mom is gone. Leaving long enough to
gain composure can be a fantastic tool. Leaving until you think the
storm has blown over is closer to the abandonment end of the scale.
When a parent has childhood memories and issues that make a situation
'just one more' of something, or it triggers deep kiddie fears, those
elements are NOT in play in the child who's never been around those
things, and will NOT be around those things for years on end.
Projecting our own childhoods onto happy unschooled kids is a
fallacy. If we're wounded, and we're working to give them space to
grow without those wounds, then they will not behave or respond as we
would in a situation. They couldn't if they tried.
Holly spoke to a woman who was threatening a young boy. I overheard,
and it scared ME, but Holly wasn't afraid. That story is part of this
short video, made at the same zoo where the incident had happened
several years prior:
It's number 7 here--centered near the bottom. I'm wearing yellow:
http://sandradodd.com/video/
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
good
might make things worse. But there were too many times that I removed
myself and left my daughter to fend for herself when she really needed
my presence. She needed me to "get over it" (my discomfort or
embarrassment) to help her, not disappear.-=-
I think it depends how long the mom is gone. Leaving long enough to
gain composure can be a fantastic tool. Leaving until you think the
storm has blown over is closer to the abandonment end of the scale.
When a parent has childhood memories and issues that make a situation
'just one more' of something, or it triggers deep kiddie fears, those
elements are NOT in play in the child who's never been around those
things, and will NOT be around those things for years on end.
Projecting our own childhoods onto happy unschooled kids is a
fallacy. If we're wounded, and we're working to give them space to
grow without those wounds, then they will not behave or respond as we
would in a situation. They couldn't if they tried.
Holly spoke to a woman who was threatening a young boy. I overheard,
and it scared ME, but Holly wasn't afraid. That story is part of this
short video, made at the same zoo where the incident had happened
several years prior:
It's number 7 here--centered near the bottom. I'm wearing yellow:
http://sandradodd.com/video/
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
JustSayin
Sandra is right on - the situation was not a problem for my boys, only for ME because of what it triggered in me.
They don't have all that awful baggage, and they are not at all troubled by my Mom and sister's "judgements". So it definitely wasn't abandonment in this case, in this case it was the best thing I could do. In this case instead of potentially making them feel bad just to please my mom and sister, I just took myself out of the equation altogether.
I appreciate the comments made about abandonment, because I am not advocating that at all. But if you are a "pleaser", you may need to get yourself out of the middle sometimes to keep from making things worse (for everyone).
Just saw the link to the video, which I'll watch now....
--Melissa (FL)
They don't have all that awful baggage, and they are not at all troubled by my Mom and sister's "judgements". So it definitely wasn't abandonment in this case, in this case it was the best thing I could do. In this case instead of potentially making them feel bad just to please my mom and sister, I just took myself out of the equation altogether.
I appreciate the comments made about abandonment, because I am not advocating that at all. But if you are a "pleaser", you may need to get yourself out of the middle sometimes to keep from making things worse (for everyone).
Just saw the link to the video, which I'll watch now....
--Melissa (FL)
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-It helped, for sure, especially when something I would do to look
> good
> might make things worse. But there were too many times that I removed
> myself and left my daughter to fend for herself when she really needed
> my presence. She needed me to "get over it" (my discomfort or
> embarrassment) to help her, not disappear.-=-
>
> I think it depends how long the mom is gone. Leaving long enough to
> gain composure can be a fantastic tool. Leaving until you think the
> storm has blown over is closer to the abandonment end of the scale.
>
> When a parent has childhood memories and issues that make a situation
> 'just one more' of something, or it triggers deep kiddie fears, those
> elements are NOT in play in the child who's never been around those
> things, and will NOT be around those things for years on end.
>
> Projecting our own childhoods onto happy unschooled kids is a
> fallacy. If we're wounded, and we're working to give them space to
> grow without those wounds, then they will not behave or respond as we
> would in a situation. They couldn't if they tried.
>
> Holly spoke to a woman who was threatening a young boy. I overheard,
> and it scared ME, but Holly wasn't afraid. That story is part of this
> short video, made at the same zoo where the incident had happened
> several years prior:
>
> It's number 7 here--centered near the bottom. I'm wearing yellow:
> http://sandradodd.com/video/
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Jenny Cyphers
***brown owl then put her finger to her lips and said to my daughter "now don't
sulk, put that bottom lip away (almost "come on stop it now" in that tone, not
jokingly).***
Something that I've noticed with my own kids, is that sometimes something like
that said by me would set them in an upset, but when it's said by someone else,
it doesn't. They aren't necessarily emotionally attached to the words like they
would be with me. Especially if it's someone that they like and respect, they
would hear the words different.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sulk, put that bottom lip away (almost "come on stop it now" in that tone, not
jokingly).***
Something that I've noticed with my own kids, is that sometimes something like
that said by me would set them in an upset, but when it's said by someone else,
it doesn't. They aren't necessarily emotionally attached to the words like they
would be with me. Especially if it's someone that they like and respect, they
would hear the words different.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
---she is a very firm woman and has trained her dog to perfection with
control techniques(she has no children ....)---
That stuff rubs me the wrong way and instead of having me be more careful, I
tend to leave as soon as I decently can. The kind of thinking that says one
is in a position to approve or disapprove assumes I want an opinion when
possibly (likely) I don't. It's not a shining attribute of mine, but I avoid
a good bit of that kind of thing in my life by .. avoiding it. That's one
way around it. It isn't the only way around it. Just one way.
I don't know if I would value a friendship built on assumptions like that.
It would bother me I think. The world is full of people who like to be in
charge of people/animals/things like me or my child. I'm not obliged to
agree with others' wishes. I can choose who and what I agree with.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
control techniques(she has no children ....)---
>>>And you don't want to risk her disapproval. I know...<<<Perfection. Control. Disapproval.
That stuff rubs me the wrong way and instead of having me be more careful, I
tend to leave as soon as I decently can. The kind of thinking that says one
is in a position to approve or disapprove assumes I want an opinion when
possibly (likely) I don't. It's not a shining attribute of mine, but I avoid
a good bit of that kind of thing in my life by .. avoiding it. That's one
way around it. It isn't the only way around it. Just one way.
I don't know if I would value a friendship built on assumptions like that.
It would bother me I think. The world is full of people who like to be in
charge of people/animals/things like me or my child. I'm not obliged to
agree with others' wishes. I can choose who and what I agree with.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
My post sounds like I don't listen to anyone's opinion. I ask questions of
and listen to so many people, and not just people I agree with. The people
whose opinion I may value and who are hypercritical don't get very much of
my time if I can help it. This is not about me having baggage only though.
It's about me thinking on a different wavelengths. When it can't be avoided,
I can deal and when it can be avoided I don't often put myself where I'm
listening to thoughts I don't want to understand more about. I did that long
enough. Choice.
~Katherine
and listen to so many people, and not just people I agree with. The people
whose opinion I may value and who are hypercritical don't get very much of
my time if I can help it. This is not about me having baggage only though.
It's about me thinking on a different wavelengths. When it can't be avoided,
I can deal and when it can be avoided I don't often put myself where I'm
listening to thoughts I don't want to understand more about. I did that long
enough. Choice.
~Katherine
On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 7:51 PM, k <katherand@...> wrote:
> ---she is a very firm woman and has trained her dog to perfection with
> control techniques(she has no children ....)---
>
>
> >>>And you don't want to risk her disapproval. I know...<<<
>
> Perfection. Control. Disapproval.
>
> That stuff rubs me the wrong way and instead of having me be more careful,
> I tend to leave as soon as I decently can. The kind of thinking that says
> one is in a position to approve or disapprove assumes I want an opinion when
> possibly (likely) I don't. It's not a shining attribute of mine, but I avoid
> a good bit of that kind of thing in my life by .. avoiding it. That's one
> way around it. It isn't the only way around it. Just one way.
>
> I don't know if I would value a friendship built on assumptions like that.
> It would bother me I think. The world is full of people who like to be in
> charge of people/animals/things like me or my child. I'm not obliged to
> agree with others' wishes. I can choose who and what I agree with.
>
> ~Katherine
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dezignarob
> ***brown owl then put her finger to her lips and said to my daughter "now don't********
> sulk, put that bottom lip away (almost "come on stop it now" in that tone, not
> jokingly).***
>
> Something that I've noticed with my own kids, is that sometimes something like
> that said by me would set them in an upset, but when it's said by someone else,
> it doesn't. They aren't necessarily emotionally attached to the words like they
> would be with me. Especially if it's someone that they like and respect, they
> would hear the words different.
I think Jayn is the same. She accepts the rules or leadership of the teacher in the classes she attends as part of the deal. If it became more trouble than it was worth, she'd leave.
I want to add that it's kinda Brown Owl's party. She gets to make the rules. When I was young in the school playground we had a concept that someone owned the game. If you wanted to join in, you'd say "can I play?" and someone would say "It's Susan's game" and Susan would make the decision.
In this kind of situation I tend to focus on Jayn rather than the other person. I might have said, "I know you're disappointed, and I'm really sorry" and given her a hug. It models another way for Brown Owl.
I wish I agreed that being concerned about how I appear got better with age. I'm almost 50 and I still get overly (imo) worried about strangers' or slight aquaintances' opinions. My strategy is to focus on Jayn - so I'm replacing my worried self talk with observations of something outside of myself - distracting myself as it were.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.robyncoburn.blogspot.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
kristi_beguin
>>>I think Jayn is the same. She accepts the rules or leadership of the teacher in the classes she attends as part of the deal. If it became more trouble than it was worth, she'd leave.<<<We just tried a new "environmentally-minded" program yesterday. One of my good friends ( a kindergarten teacher) leads it, along with a college student. I had great hopes, but my "too-schooley" alarm came on within the first 2 minutes.
My girls, apparently, loved it.
Despite the fact that their friend, the daughter of the Kindergarten Teacher, was definitely given the short end of the stick throughout much of the hour (as in "You can't come next time." "Stop crying" "You need to separate from...") and the class leaders kept invoking silence from all the kids, no hand-holding, and one-at-a-time participation. My girls have both told me how much fun they had, how they like the college student, how they can't wait for next time, etc. It was MY "schooley" flags that were raised, and I can't necessarily dump that on them! They were actually intrigued by all that was going on!
>>>In this kind of situation I tend to focus on Jayn rather than the other person.<<<In this situation I did the same. My oldest wanted me to join them on the hike (I was the only parent to do so). I was ready to bail at any moment if they wanted to. I observed, silently, and gave my kids lots of winks, smiles, and hugs when necessary. They never wanted to bail, and in fact, wanted to stay until the leaders left.