I thought my husband was onboard with unschooling...but finding out he's not.
Erika F
Hi! I'm Erika from No. CA. Short time lurker.
I have a son Asher who will be 8 in August. He has never been to public school.
I had originally started teaching Asher in a more strict & formal homeschooling way. That back fired horribly. He is one of those wonderfully busy boys who just can't stay still for too long. It was a painful process for us both and I admit that I caused some damage from my pushing. As I backed off the daily copy work & the harsh daily reading practice he as blossomed. Now we spend our time doing things he enjoys like baking, hunting for tadpoles, games (including xbox), lego or whatever he is interested in at the moment. Right now he really loves "mad libs", even though he can only read a few of the words by himself. We put away most of the workbooks and only look at them if they are relevant to whatever our focus is.
Asher just told me that Daddy said he wants him to do more schoolwork. He wants more reading, writing & math. I'm a little surprised & shocked as we have always agreed on how I was schooling Asher. My husband parents were both teachers in the public school system & have always been unhappy with our choice. Ted has always been supportive....until now. I think the idea of unschooling is so foreign to him that maybe because he doesn't see all the desk work that he thinks we aren't doing enough.
I was hoping that someone could point me to some literature that supports unschooling. Something fairly brief & to the point. I of course plan on talking to him about this, however he is gone 3-5 days a week for work & I would love to be able to show him something substantial to ease whatever fear he has regarding this.
Thanks for reading all this! All input is appreciated.
Erika
I have a son Asher who will be 8 in August. He has never been to public school.
I had originally started teaching Asher in a more strict & formal homeschooling way. That back fired horribly. He is one of those wonderfully busy boys who just can't stay still for too long. It was a painful process for us both and I admit that I caused some damage from my pushing. As I backed off the daily copy work & the harsh daily reading practice he as blossomed. Now we spend our time doing things he enjoys like baking, hunting for tadpoles, games (including xbox), lego or whatever he is interested in at the moment. Right now he really loves "mad libs", even though he can only read a few of the words by himself. We put away most of the workbooks and only look at them if they are relevant to whatever our focus is.
Asher just told me that Daddy said he wants him to do more schoolwork. He wants more reading, writing & math. I'm a little surprised & shocked as we have always agreed on how I was schooling Asher. My husband parents were both teachers in the public school system & have always been unhappy with our choice. Ted has always been supportive....until now. I think the idea of unschooling is so foreign to him that maybe because he doesn't see all the desk work that he thinks we aren't doing enough.
I was hoping that someone could point me to some literature that supports unschooling. Something fairly brief & to the point. I of course plan on talking to him about this, however he is gone 3-5 days a week for work & I would love to be able to show him something substantial to ease whatever fear he has regarding this.
Thanks for reading all this! All input is appreciated.
Erika
Sandra Dodd
-=-Asher just told me that Daddy said he wants him to do more
schoolwork.-=-
Why did the dad talk to Asher instead of to you?
-=-Hi! I'm Erika from No. CA.-=-
Northern California is good!
There's a conference in August. You and your husband could go and hear
unschoolers, meet Pam Sorooshian's daughters, meet my oldest son,
Kirby, and other older unschoolers.
http://hscconference.com/
and it's not exclusively an unschooling conference so you could also
cruise the vendors and see some local opportunities, but also some
very expensive options that will help persuade him that expensive
options or school at home can be problems.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
schoolwork.-=-
Why did the dad talk to Asher instead of to you?
-=-Hi! I'm Erika from No. CA.-=-
Northern California is good!
There's a conference in August. You and your husband could go and hear
unschoolers, meet Pam Sorooshian's daughters, meet my oldest son,
Kirby, and other older unschoolers.
http://hscconference.com/
and it's not exclusively an unschooling conference so you could also
cruise the vendors and see some local opportunities, but also some
very expensive options that will help persuade him that expensive
options or school at home can be problems.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marina DeLuca-Howard
*
<<Asher just told me that Daddy said he wants him to do more schoolwork.*>>
Perhaps your son is mistaken.
At any rate parents should not be communicating through their children, even
if divorced or separated. A child should never be made to feel responsible
for his/her parents well being nor creating peace in the marriage. It works
the other way around: the parents need to communicate with one another to
create a nest and be responsible for creating a peaceful home.
This confusion you are experiencing is definitely not a road to peace, love
and joy in family life--so you need to investigate. You might gently ask
your partner for an opinion on your life together. When I say *gently* I
mean practice the words until you find a way to ask him *without* accusing.
You sound hurt and as if you are harboring resentment for your in-laws. You
may also want to first focus on how much you love him and your son and want
them both to be happy:-)
If Asher feel concern for his grandparents you could brainstorm with him to
find a way for him to discuss their concerns, or better still be around if
you are concerned he might be feeling their disapproval. You may try
offering Asher more opportunities to learn and see what he enjoys; since he
could just be wanting to experiment with "school". Perhaps he would like to
put together a project for fun on a topic he enjoys for his dad and
grandparents. He may have extrapolated daddy's wishes from overhearing
words out of context. It is not his job however to please his
grandparents--though if he wants to make a gift of an academic sort out of
love/respect that sounds nice.
Marina
If you can see that your life is full and that life is good, then you are
more apt to find something positive and agreeable in another person. Jenny C
Rent our cottage: http://davehoward.ca/cottage/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<Asher just told me that Daddy said he wants him to do more schoolwork.*>>
Perhaps your son is mistaken.
At any rate parents should not be communicating through their children, even
if divorced or separated. A child should never be made to feel responsible
for his/her parents well being nor creating peace in the marriage. It works
the other way around: the parents need to communicate with one another to
create a nest and be responsible for creating a peaceful home.
This confusion you are experiencing is definitely not a road to peace, love
and joy in family life--so you need to investigate. You might gently ask
your partner for an opinion on your life together. When I say *gently* I
mean practice the words until you find a way to ask him *without* accusing.
You sound hurt and as if you are harboring resentment for your in-laws. You
may also want to first focus on how much you love him and your son and want
them both to be happy:-)
If Asher feel concern for his grandparents you could brainstorm with him to
find a way for him to discuss their concerns, or better still be around if
you are concerned he might be feeling their disapproval. You may try
offering Asher more opportunities to learn and see what he enjoys; since he
could just be wanting to experiment with "school". Perhaps he would like to
put together a project for fun on a topic he enjoys for his dad and
grandparents. He may have extrapolated daddy's wishes from overhearing
words out of context. It is not his job however to please his
grandparents--though if he wants to make a gift of an academic sort out of
love/respect that sounds nice.
Marina
If you can see that your life is full and that life is good, then you are
more apt to find something positive and agreeable in another person. Jenny C
Rent our cottage: http://davehoward.ca/cottage/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
One of the things that can really help with seeing exactly how much is going on is keeping a blog or v-log that you can share just with your husband, or with all the world. Being present moment to moment can make you blind to how little someone who is only there 4 to 2 days a week is experiencing. Fill the gaps for him by putting together pictures and stories and videos of what you and Asher do day to day.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
My husband's turning point was getting to be around other kids the age
of our own children, and seeing that ours *were* cool and mature and
knowledgeable. Another good boost was being around other unschooling
families, and the dads of those families. Find opportunities to be
around other kids.
Some people say comparisons are evil, but in our family it helped Keith.
And if comparisons were universally evil, why unschool at all? ;-)
Sandra
of our own children, and seeing that ours *were* cool and mature and
knowledgeable. Another good boost was being around other unschooling
families, and the dads of those families. Find opportunities to be
around other kids.
Some people say comparisons are evil, but in our family it helped Keith.
And if comparisons were universally evil, why unschool at all? ;-)
Sandra
Erika F
lots of positive points & ideas, thank you.
I did talk to my husband & he apologized for talking to Asher before speaking to me, and that it is the lack of "school work" that is bothering him. I asked him to stay open minded and to please discuss his worries with me and not put that kind of pressure on Asher. he agreed.
I like both the ideas on charting our daily activities for my husband as well as the idea of a project on a subject Asher really loves.
thanks again!
I did talk to my husband & he apologized for talking to Asher before speaking to me, and that it is the lack of "school work" that is bothering him. I asked him to stay open minded and to please discuss his worries with me and not put that kind of pressure on Asher. he agreed.
I like both the ideas on charting our daily activities for my husband as well as the idea of a project on a subject Asher really loves.
thanks again!
Sandra Dodd
-=-I like both the ideas on charting our daily activities for my
husband as well as the idea of a project on a subject Asher really
loves.-=-
I think you've interpreted the ideas in too-schooly a way. "Charting
daily activities" isn't the same as keeping a blog, or a journal of
the best parts. Some things aren't worth charting. Some charts cause
people to press children to do things just for the sake of filling in
a box on a chart.
As "a project on a subject" anyone really loves, it could be a great
way to cause that to be a subject he or she will avoid in the future.
Try not to think of "subjects."
These might help:
http://sandradodd.com/checklists
http://sandradodd.com/help
If you've seen them already, look again in a few days, and then again
in a month or so. Your perspective will make them different.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
husband as well as the idea of a project on a subject Asher really
loves.-=-
I think you've interpreted the ideas in too-schooly a way. "Charting
daily activities" isn't the same as keeping a blog, or a journal of
the best parts. Some things aren't worth charting. Some charts cause
people to press children to do things just for the sake of filling in
a box on a chart.
As "a project on a subject" anyone really loves, it could be a great
way to cause that to be a subject he or she will avoid in the future.
Try not to think of "subjects."
These might help:
http://sandradodd.com/checklists
http://sandradodd.com/help
If you've seen them already, look again in a few days, and then again
in a month or so. Your perspective will make them different.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanna
> I was hoping that someone could point me to some literature that supports unschooling. Something fairly brief & to the point.You might take a look at Peter Gray's blog:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn
Joanna
Sandra Dodd
Earlier this year there was a blog post by a dad who was at the Ohio
water park event. A young naval officer who was sold on unschooling
after that weekend.
I thought I had saved the link on my site, but I can't find it. Does
anyone have that, please? It was short, clear and manly. :-)
Sandra
water park event. A young naval officer who was sold on unschooling
after that weekend.
I thought I had saved the link on my site, but I can't find it. Does
anyone have that, please? It was short, clear and manly. :-)
Sandra
Jenny Cyphers
***I like both the ideas on charting our daily activities for my husband as well as the idea of a project on a subject Asher really loves.***
Perhaps instead of a "subject", do a project on something that he loves. Lego creations are fun to photograph. The life cycle of frogs is interesting as well.
There is something about that age, the near 9 or 9ish age, where what unschoolers do looks very very different from what kids in schools do. For my older daughter it seemed to stem from the multiplication tables. The multiplication tables are like this big huge milestone in school. Before that, much of school is about learning to read, and busy work. Then along comes multiplication tables and people suddenly feel like their kids, if they aren't in school, are going to lag behind if they miss out on it.
Homeschoolers stress about it. If kids are at the multiplication age, other things start seeming more relevant too, like what level of reading a kid is at, or what extraordinary science projects their children are doing. Testing is more prevalent and school, in general, becomes way more competitive than prior to that 8/9 age.
If a person wants to continue unschooling, this is when they need to really step it up, especially if they have a reluctant partner. From this point onward, in what I've experienced and what I've seen, unschooling kids diverge greatly from what school kids do. It's going to look and feel very different. They don't really even out or become strikingly "better" until they reach that balance in the teen years. I'm not even sure how to describe it, but it seems like unschooled teens reach this point of being sure within themselves, still growing and changing and learning, but there is this calm centered aspect that I see that I don't see in schooled kids much. It's an element that many reluctant partners see and KNOW that it's been working when they get to that point.
Between that 8/9 age and that point in teenhood, the primary unschooling parent needs to really see the learning and really bring the world to their kids and their kids to their partners. Unschooling is really hard to get for some people. Just like a parent can present something to a child in just the way they know their child will receive it, they can do that for their partners as well. What really did it for my own husband was going to an unschooling conference, and having lots of schooled kids around and seeing the differences in behavior. It's very striking. The academic stuff was more peripheral for him when he saw how our kids didn't have weird behavioral issues that other kids had.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Perhaps instead of a "subject", do a project on something that he loves. Lego creations are fun to photograph. The life cycle of frogs is interesting as well.
There is something about that age, the near 9 or 9ish age, where what unschoolers do looks very very different from what kids in schools do. For my older daughter it seemed to stem from the multiplication tables. The multiplication tables are like this big huge milestone in school. Before that, much of school is about learning to read, and busy work. Then along comes multiplication tables and people suddenly feel like their kids, if they aren't in school, are going to lag behind if they miss out on it.
Homeschoolers stress about it. If kids are at the multiplication age, other things start seeming more relevant too, like what level of reading a kid is at, or what extraordinary science projects their children are doing. Testing is more prevalent and school, in general, becomes way more competitive than prior to that 8/9 age.
If a person wants to continue unschooling, this is when they need to really step it up, especially if they have a reluctant partner. From this point onward, in what I've experienced and what I've seen, unschooling kids diverge greatly from what school kids do. It's going to look and feel very different. They don't really even out or become strikingly "better" until they reach that balance in the teen years. I'm not even sure how to describe it, but it seems like unschooled teens reach this point of being sure within themselves, still growing and changing and learning, but there is this calm centered aspect that I see that I don't see in schooled kids much. It's an element that many reluctant partners see and KNOW that it's been working when they get to that point.
Between that 8/9 age and that point in teenhood, the primary unschooling parent needs to really see the learning and really bring the world to their kids and their kids to their partners. Unschooling is really hard to get for some people. Just like a parent can present something to a child in just the way they know their child will receive it, they can do that for their partners as well. What really did it for my own husband was going to an unschooling conference, and having lots of schooled kids around and seeing the differences in behavior. It's very striking. The academic stuff was more peripheral for him when he saw how our kids didn't have weird behavioral issues that other kids had.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Nine is the age Holly, Marty and Kathryn pegged. Nine to 11, I think
they said, when Joyce and I talked about this one day in the car when
it was the five of us on a highway.
-=-They don't really even out or become strikingly "better" until they
reach that balance in the teen years. I'm not even sure how to
describe it, but it seems like unschooled teens reach this point of
being sure within themselves, still growing and changing and learning,
but there is this calm centered aspect that I see that I don't see in
schooled kids much. -=-
I've seen that, and part of it is, I think, that in middle school or
Jr. High (when kids are ten or eleven, give or take a year) what
they're learning in school can seem impressive! Names, places,
writing essays, doing geometry. The unschooled kids are doing things,
but not what would be considered "academic things," generally
speaking. So the kids at home can start to feel nervous, and their
friends at school ca start to be cocky.
But here's the deal: life is lumpy, and when people draw a curve on a
graph to show that if a child learns at a certain rate over a number
of years he will be here at one point, and there at another point...
that curve is not based on reality.
About the time all these kids turn thirteen or fourteen, puberty is
coming upon them, they are feeling and becoming different, more like
the adults than like the babies, something big happens. Many of the
school kids have just had enough. The "no" and "sit" and "wait" have
built up in them until they can't take any more. Meanwhile, the
unschoolers wake up and stretch their longer arms and their maturing
brains, and the things they've been accumulating over the years start
to gel and to make new sense. They are synthesizing their own
knowledge from all the parts they've collected, all the experiences
and trivia and connections they're making. School kids are being
told "Just do what you're supposed to do; just follow the directions;
your opinion isn't important."
My boys had a gaming friend, a little older than Kirby. They played
all kinds of collectible card games and role playing games and video
games with him for a few years. When he was in 10th grade he was SURE
my boys would love school and should go there. "How will they learn
chemistry?" he said. The friend liked school, was in theatre, and
marching band.
Over the course of about a year, his parents split up suddenly and
dramatically (and there were four of them all taking care of him
together, before that). That was probably the greatest factor. But
he was also to the point of thinking that maybe school wasn't all
that. He was way over six feet tall (6' 4" came, somewhere in there),
and short little people were telling him no, sit down, wait, what do
*you* know, you're just a kid. He could have knocked them down and
run away. They never would have caught him. But our culture
doesn't allow that. He needed to grieve and recover from the loss of
his home and parents, but the school schedule didn't allow for him to
cry, or to lick his wounds.
So he started cutting himself, piercing himself, taking drugs and more
drugs, drinking himself into unconsciousness. The last year of
school, he HATED school and everything to do with school. My boys
were working when they were that age, and making enough money to buy
games, gasoline, music, food for friends. Their friend kept re-
setting his self-destruct sequence, and when he didn't self-destruct
he went on binges and re-set it.
But back up to when the kids are nine: At nine, the friend was calm
and confident and doing his school work every day. My kids, at nine,
were playing games, riding bikes, climbing trees, playing with Lego.
The snapshot of life at nine doesn't showcase the unschoolers.
Something substantial is happening, but it isn't measurable in
semesters and "school years."
http://sandradodd.com/substance
That was written when Marty was nine, and Kirby was eleven.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
they said, when Joyce and I talked about this one day in the car when
it was the five of us on a highway.
-=-They don't really even out or become strikingly "better" until they
reach that balance in the teen years. I'm not even sure how to
describe it, but it seems like unschooled teens reach this point of
being sure within themselves, still growing and changing and learning,
but there is this calm centered aspect that I see that I don't see in
schooled kids much. -=-
I've seen that, and part of it is, I think, that in middle school or
Jr. High (when kids are ten or eleven, give or take a year) what
they're learning in school can seem impressive! Names, places,
writing essays, doing geometry. The unschooled kids are doing things,
but not what would be considered "academic things," generally
speaking. So the kids at home can start to feel nervous, and their
friends at school ca start to be cocky.
But here's the deal: life is lumpy, and when people draw a curve on a
graph to show that if a child learns at a certain rate over a number
of years he will be here at one point, and there at another point...
that curve is not based on reality.
About the time all these kids turn thirteen or fourteen, puberty is
coming upon them, they are feeling and becoming different, more like
the adults than like the babies, something big happens. Many of the
school kids have just had enough. The "no" and "sit" and "wait" have
built up in them until they can't take any more. Meanwhile, the
unschoolers wake up and stretch their longer arms and their maturing
brains, and the things they've been accumulating over the years start
to gel and to make new sense. They are synthesizing their own
knowledge from all the parts they've collected, all the experiences
and trivia and connections they're making. School kids are being
told "Just do what you're supposed to do; just follow the directions;
your opinion isn't important."
My boys had a gaming friend, a little older than Kirby. They played
all kinds of collectible card games and role playing games and video
games with him for a few years. When he was in 10th grade he was SURE
my boys would love school and should go there. "How will they learn
chemistry?" he said. The friend liked school, was in theatre, and
marching band.
Over the course of about a year, his parents split up suddenly and
dramatically (and there were four of them all taking care of him
together, before that). That was probably the greatest factor. But
he was also to the point of thinking that maybe school wasn't all
that. He was way over six feet tall (6' 4" came, somewhere in there),
and short little people were telling him no, sit down, wait, what do
*you* know, you're just a kid. He could have knocked them down and
run away. They never would have caught him. But our culture
doesn't allow that. He needed to grieve and recover from the loss of
his home and parents, but the school schedule didn't allow for him to
cry, or to lick his wounds.
So he started cutting himself, piercing himself, taking drugs and more
drugs, drinking himself into unconsciousness. The last year of
school, he HATED school and everything to do with school. My boys
were working when they were that age, and making enough money to buy
games, gasoline, music, food for friends. Their friend kept re-
setting his self-destruct sequence, and when he didn't self-destruct
he went on binges and re-set it.
But back up to when the kids are nine: At nine, the friend was calm
and confident and doing his school work every day. My kids, at nine,
were playing games, riding bikes, climbing trees, playing with Lego.
The snapshot of life at nine doesn't showcase the unschoolers.
Something substantial is happening, but it isn't measurable in
semesters and "school years."
http://sandradodd.com/substance
That was written when Marty was nine, and Kirby was eleven.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
keetry
== The multiplication tables are like this big huge milestone in school. Before that, much of school is about learning to read, and busy work. Then along comes multiplication tables and people suddenly feel like their kids, if they aren't in school, are going to lag behind if they miss out on it.==
The other night my 6 year old was quizing me. He does that every night at bedtime. I call it, "Quiz Mommy Time," because he bombards me with questions. A lot of the time it's math questions.
So, he asked me, "What's plus 2 plus 2 plus 2?" When I told him it was 6 he said, "Oh, that's two 3s." I have to admit I was very surprised. I wasn't expecting that. We've never done any kind of mathematics tables or exercises. He just knew the relationship.
Alysia
The other night my 6 year old was quizing me. He does that every night at bedtime. I call it, "Quiz Mommy Time," because he bombards me with questions. A lot of the time it's math questions.
So, he asked me, "What's plus 2 plus 2 plus 2?" When I told him it was 6 he said, "Oh, that's two 3s." I have to admit I was very surprised. I wasn't expecting that. We've never done any kind of mathematics tables or exercises. He just knew the relationship.
Alysia
Jenny Cyphers
***So, he asked me, "What's plus 2 plus 2 plus 2?" When I told him it was 6 he said, "Oh, that's two 3s." I have to admit I was very surprised. I wasn't expecting that. We've never done any kind of mathematics tables or exercises. He just knew the relationship.***
Margaux is like that too! She plays with numbers in her head all the time. Sometimes I wonder if there is ever a moment in which she doesn't do that!
Just a little bit ago we were watching PBS together and there was a pro-school ad on. Margaux said, "you can learn more out of school than in school." She then went on to explain that if she were in school she'd be having to do worksheets and stuff that would interfere with all the stuff going on in her head. She went on to say that right now she's really into math and numbers, but really wouldn't like all the worksheets in school and is quite happy to be able to be really into math and numbers without anything interfering with it!
It was an unexpected conversation. I knew that she was really into numbers and messing with numbers and patterns, but I didn't know that she knew she was really into numbers and messing with them! It was a bit of self awareness that I didn't know was there and it was cool! She's 8 for those that don't know.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Margaux is like that too! She plays with numbers in her head all the time. Sometimes I wonder if there is ever a moment in which she doesn't do that!
Just a little bit ago we were watching PBS together and there was a pro-school ad on. Margaux said, "you can learn more out of school than in school." She then went on to explain that if she were in school she'd be having to do worksheets and stuff that would interfere with all the stuff going on in her head. She went on to say that right now she's really into math and numbers, but really wouldn't like all the worksheets in school and is quite happy to be able to be really into math and numbers without anything interfering with it!
It was an unexpected conversation. I knew that she was really into numbers and messing with numbers and patterns, but I didn't know that she knew she was really into numbers and messing with them! It was a bit of self awareness that I didn't know was there and it was cool! She's 8 for those that don't know.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
thebaby_bear
seanheritage.blogspot.com
Look for Waterpark and Curling
Look for Waterpark and Curling
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> Earlier this year there was a blog post by a dad who was at the Ohio
> water park event. A young naval officer who was sold on unschooling
> after that weekend.
>
> I thought I had saved the link on my site, but I can't find it. Does
> anyone have that, please? It was short, clear and manly. :-)
>
> Sandra
>
keetry
--- In [email protected], "thebaby_bear" <marianneheritage@...> wrote:
Alysia
>That's really cool. Even though my husband is now pretty much sold on unschooling, I'm going to pass this along to him. He might be interested in reading what another military officer thinks of unschooling.
> seanheritage.blogspot.com
>
> Look for Waterpark and Curling
Alysia
keetry
== Just a little bit ago we were watching PBS together and there was a pro-school ad on. Margaux said, "you can learn more out of school than in school." She then went on to explain that if she were in school she'd be having to do worksheets and stuff that would interfere with all the stuff going on in her head. She went on to say that right now she's really into math and numbers, but really wouldn't like all the worksheets in school and is quite happy to be able to be really into math and numbers without anything interfering with it!==
I was thinking about my experience with math in school compared to my unschooled children's relationship with math. I did very well in math in school. It was my favorite subject. I could sit for hours and do the math problems in the textbook. Most of it came very easy to me. I had a little trouble with Geometry in high school and Calculus in college but I still did well in those subjects. I remember once asking my dad (probably like almost all teens at some point) what the point in learning Algebra was. It certainly wasn't anything I'd use outside of school. He told me the point was to learn how to think logically. Well, obviously, there are an unlimited number of ways to think logically. Algebra isn't the only way.
When I got out in the real world, I discovered very quickly that I had no idea how math related to that world. I only understood the abstract math provided by textbooks. I struggled for years to understand it all, especially when other unschoolers were telling me that my children would learn math from Legos. Huh? How could that be possible? They wouldn't understand the sentence, "A + B = C." That's math.
Then one day very recently I had a conversation about it with my dad, who has a Ph.D. in mathematics. He explained and somehow it finally clicked. He said I was thinking only about arithmetic and that's a very small and relatively unimportant part of mathematics. Mathematics is more importantly about things like the spatial relationships between things in this world. For example, knowing the best way to pack the car trunk. That's the type of math my children are learning. The math that works in the real world to solve real problems. I never got that from all the math I learned in school. As you can probably tell from my explanation, I still don't understand it fully but I finally got that's it's not just about numbers.
So, while schooled children are memorizing multiplication tables, my children are learning how to intuitively understand the relationships between numbers and shapes and so on. It's hard to keep a tangible record of that, especially if you are comparing it to all the papers that schooled children have.
This is really long, I know, but I want to share one other story about Ethan. The other day he told me he was going to get married when he's 18. I commented that that was kind of young to get married. Most people aren't prepared to be married by 18. He told me he is learning how to be married from playing house, when he is usually the dad. He understands the relationship between his play and real life because he hasn't been told that play is frivolous.
Alysia
I was thinking about my experience with math in school compared to my unschooled children's relationship with math. I did very well in math in school. It was my favorite subject. I could sit for hours and do the math problems in the textbook. Most of it came very easy to me. I had a little trouble with Geometry in high school and Calculus in college but I still did well in those subjects. I remember once asking my dad (probably like almost all teens at some point) what the point in learning Algebra was. It certainly wasn't anything I'd use outside of school. He told me the point was to learn how to think logically. Well, obviously, there are an unlimited number of ways to think logically. Algebra isn't the only way.
When I got out in the real world, I discovered very quickly that I had no idea how math related to that world. I only understood the abstract math provided by textbooks. I struggled for years to understand it all, especially when other unschoolers were telling me that my children would learn math from Legos. Huh? How could that be possible? They wouldn't understand the sentence, "A + B = C." That's math.
Then one day very recently I had a conversation about it with my dad, who has a Ph.D. in mathematics. He explained and somehow it finally clicked. He said I was thinking only about arithmetic and that's a very small and relatively unimportant part of mathematics. Mathematics is more importantly about things like the spatial relationships between things in this world. For example, knowing the best way to pack the car trunk. That's the type of math my children are learning. The math that works in the real world to solve real problems. I never got that from all the math I learned in school. As you can probably tell from my explanation, I still don't understand it fully but I finally got that's it's not just about numbers.
So, while schooled children are memorizing multiplication tables, my children are learning how to intuitively understand the relationships between numbers and shapes and so on. It's hard to keep a tangible record of that, especially if you are comparing it to all the papers that schooled children have.
This is really long, I know, but I want to share one other story about Ethan. The other day he told me he was going to get married when he's 18. I commented that that was kind of young to get married. Most people aren't prepared to be married by 18. He told me he is learning how to be married from playing house, when he is usually the dad. He understands the relationship between his play and real life because he hasn't been told that play is frivolous.
Alysia
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/3/2010 6:01 AM, keetry wrote:
going to say they sit around doing arithmetic all day! <g> They "play"
around with ideas - math is very creative. It is sometimes like playing
around with the rules of games to see how different changes affect the
way the game plays out. Sometimes it is more like visual art.
-pam
-pam
> Then one day very recently I had a conversation about it with my dad,Hurray for your dad. Ask him what mathematicians do. I bet he's not
> who has a Ph.D. in mathematics. He explained and somehow it finally
> clicked. He said I was thinking only about arithmetic and that's a
> very small and relatively unimportant part of mathematics. Mathematics
> is more importantly about things like the spatial relationships
> between things in this world. For example, knowing the best way to
> pack the car trunk. That's the type of math my children are learning.
> The math that works in the real world to solve real problems. I never
> got that from all the math I learned in school. As you can probably
> tell from my explanation, I still don't understand it fully but I
> finally got that's it's not just about numbers.
going to say they sit around doing arithmetic all day! <g> They "play"
around with ideas - math is very creative. It is sometimes like playing
around with the rules of games to see how different changes affect the
way the game plays out. Sometimes it is more like visual art.
-pam
-pam
keetry
> Hurray for your dad. Ask him what mathematicians do. I bet he's notYeah, I only wish he had told me that when I asked as a teenager. I get so frustrated that I can't understand how mathematics works in the real world. I love that my children will intuitively understand the relationship between things without even thinking of math.
> going to say they sit around doing arithmetic all day! <g> They "play"
> around with ideas - math is very creative. It is sometimes like playing
> around with the rules of games to see how different changes affect the
> way the game plays out. Sometimes it is more like visual art.
I think I will ask my dad what mathematicians do.
Alysia
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/4/2010 6:33 AM, keetry wrote:
Thanks.
-Pam
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> I think I will ask my dad what mathematicians do.I'm really super interested in his answer. Report back, okay?
Thanks.
-Pam
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k
Me too... I'm interested in what he might say. I'm an artsy gal who has
always liked patterns and puzzles, and sucked at math curriculum. I love
concepts with numbers now that I have realized I can come at it more
visually.
~Katherine
always liked patterns and puzzles, and sucked at math curriculum. I love
concepts with numbers now that I have realized I can come at it more
visually.
~Katherine
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>wrote:
> On 6/4/2010 6:33 AM, keetry wrote:
> > I think I will ask my dad what mathematicians do.
>
> I'm really super interested in his answer. Report back, okay?
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Pam
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
keetry
Here's my dad's response to the question:
"Mathematicians think, about mathematics, about what concepts are important, about what is true, about how to establish mathematical truths. They determine criteria for logical truth, statistical truth, and approximate truth. They analyze and solve problems. They determine what is possible, what is impossible, what is feasible, and what is unfeasible. They figure out how to do things efficiently."
He said that's what he could come up with off the top of his head. If anyone has any more specific questions, he'll be happy to try to answer them.
Alysia
"Mathematicians think, about mathematics, about what concepts are important, about what is true, about how to establish mathematical truths. They determine criteria for logical truth, statistical truth, and approximate truth. They analyze and solve problems. They determine what is possible, what is impossible, what is feasible, and what is unfeasible. They figure out how to do things efficiently."
He said that's what he could come up with off the top of his head. If anyone has any more specific questions, he'll be happy to try to answer them.
Alysia