k

You know it's interesting. I had the same reaction about Roseanne ...
realistic reactions to the situations. I never enjoyed some shows and
the Cosby Show is a prime example of parenting that had me cringing.
The kids were grown on All in the Family but even that show was
realistic in terms of how people express their feelings in their
environment .... in other words, people (children) can only express
feelings as openly as the environment allows it.

I'd also love to hear other shows commented on for the parenting
style. What are some of the best or worst, in your opinion. Coming at
this from a viewpoint of unschooling is a study of the general
population of parenting styles, for sure... well, for me it is.

~Katherine



On 5/4/10, Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
> On 5/3/2010 11:02 AM, Robin Bentley wrote:
>> She told me that "Roseanne" was a good role model for mothering and
>> while I've changed by opinion of that show from reading Pam S's take
>> on it, I still think I'd like to do things a bit differently.
>
> LOL -- what she did was TALK with her kids - sometimes only after
> blowing up and being super strict/mean, but eventually always was
> clearly trying to see from her kids' point of view. Also, the show
> showed realistic kids' reactions when their parents were cracking down
> on them. They didn't show the kids being shamed and punished and then
> meekly coming out and saying something like, "Okay, you were right and
> I'm going to be good from now on." No - they showed how the initial
> problem usually was blown up into a much bigger issue by the parents,
> when they didn't take time to work it through with the kid, but just
> imposed their authority. This was in contrast to the Cosby Show, which
> was completely unrealistic in how the kids reacted to constantly being
> made fun of and restricted and punished. Cosby Show was really an
> updated "Father Knows Best" - and not as sweet.
>
> -pam
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Pam Sorooshian

On 5/4/2010 10:18 PM, k wrote:
> I'd also love to hear other shows commented on for the parenting
> style. What are some of the best or worst, in your opinion. Coming at
> this from a viewpoint of unschooling is a study of the general
> population of parenting styles, for sure... well, for me it is.


Well - the obvious show to watch if you're interested in parenting is
"Parenthood." We watch it because someone we know is on it (Haddy - the
older sister of the supposedly-autistic boy). Some of the parenting
makes us cringe in a BIG way and some is surprisingly good.

-pam

lalow66

> Well - the obvious show to watch if you're interested in parenting is
> "Parenthood." We watch it because someone we know is on it (Haddy - the
> older sister of the supposedly-autistic boy). Some of the parenting
> makes us cringe in a BIG way and some is surprisingly good.
>
> -pam


one night i watched and was extremely moved by the way they treated their son (the autistic boy and meeting him where he was etc). a few weeks later they ruined it, however, when they added a behavioral specialist and started training him like a dog.

Su Penn

On May 5, 2010, at 1:42 AM, Pam Sorooshian wrote:

> Well - the obvious show to watch if you're interested in parenting is
> "Parenthood." We watch it because someone we know is on it (Haddy - the
> older sister of the supposedly-autistic boy). Some of the parenting
> makes us cringe in a BIG way and some is surprisingly good.

I tried to watch an episode recently--the one where one set of parents finds out their daughter is dating someone they didn't know about, and meanwhile the single mom is dealing with her teenage son masturbating a lot. It was all so cringe-worthy I couldn't get through the whole episode. Had they really never talked to this boy about masturbation before? Is breaking into your daughter's bedroom and hacking into her computer really the best response to finding out she's dating someone? I turned it off when the single mom, who'd been insisting her troubled daughter was trustworthy enough to babysit, snuck around to spy on her daughter through the window. I couldn't take it anymore. I wonder what I missed--the part where she slips on something and makes a noise and her daughter discovers her spying and they have a big fight?

I've tried two episodes and couldn't get all the way through either, though the first time it wasn't about parenting, but about an interaction between two adults that depended on someone acting stupid because otherwise there'd be no story. I have very little patience for that kind of thing.

Su

Joanna

<<I turned it off when the single mom, who'd been insisting her troubled daughter was trustworthy enough to babysit, snuck around to spy on her daughter through the window. >>

She used to be the mom on Gilmore Girls and I mostly liked that relationship.
I really can't stand her patenting attitude on this new show.

Joanna

folkymom

> On 5/4/2010 10:18 PM, k wrote:
> > I'd also love to hear other shows commented on for the parenting
> > style. What are some of the best or worst, in your opinion.

I think the best ever is Little Bear! :)
~Kelli

lalow66

--- In [email protected], "folkymom" <kelli@...> wrote:
>
>
> > On 5/4/2010 10:18 PM, k wrote:
> > > I'd also love to hear other shows commented on for the parenting
> > > style. What are some of the best or worst, in your opinion.
>
> I think the best ever is Little Bear! :)
> ~Kelli
>
I always thought Little Bill's parents were pretty cool too.

Sandra Dodd

-=-> Well - the obvious show to watch if you're interested in
parenting is
> "Parenthood." We watch it because someone we know is on it (Haddy -
the
> older sister of the supposedly-autistic boy). Some of the parenting
> makes us cringe in a BIG way and some is surprisingly good.
>
> -pam

-=-one night i watched and was extremely moved by the way they treated
their son (the autistic boy and meeting him where he was etc). a few
weeks later they ruined it, however, when they added a behavioral
specialist and started training him like a dog.-=-


I liked The Cosby Show. I thought the mom was too mean and the dad's
sarcasm was sure to have gotten old, but I also was a Cosby fan from
the 60's and so it was like Cosby routines with supporting characters.

Never forget the Chicken Heart, though. When you're disturbed,
cringing, unhappy or setting the couch on fire and smearing Jello
everywhere, remember this: Turn off the radio. (or TV)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhwF2d8QyvU&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vPimtcK3-A&NR=1

These are 40-some years old. It will take 12 minutes to listen to
both. There's no video. I have the album on vinyl.
Cosby was born in 1937, so he was a kid in the 40's, pre-TV, pre-
inflation (comment on the price of the couch), and pre-political
correctness.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny Cyphers

***She used to be the mom on Gilmore Girls and I mostly liked that relationship.
I really can't stand her patenting attitude on this new show.***

Chamille and I sat down to watch the very first episode when it came out because it was this same person. We got about 5 min into it and she said, "this is way too much about school, it's going to annoy me, it already is and it just started." So we changed the channel!





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dana Hayden

I have the same reaction to this show - I'll be appreciating one aspect and
then it gets ruined by another.

Quotes like:
Kristina: You know what the problem is for mothers?
Sarah: Daughters.
Kristina: Daughters.
Julia: Amen.

and

Sarah: Why does she hate me mom?
Camille: Daughters hate their mothers; I think it's the law of nature. But
you know what, then they come back.

But my 13yr old daughter loves to watch it together and we can roll our eyes
together!

Dana



On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 10:42 PM, Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>wrote:

>
>
> On 5/4/2010 10:18 PM, k wrote:
> > I'd also love to hear other shows commented on for the parenting
> > style. What are some of the best or worst, in your opinion. Coming at
> > this from a viewpoint of unschooling is a study of the general
> > population of parenting styles, for sure... well, for me it is.
>
> Well - the obvious show to watch if you're interested in parenting is
> "Parenthood." We watch it because someone we know is on it (Haddy - the
> older sister of the supposedly-autistic boy). Some of the parenting
> makes us cringe in a BIG way and some is surprisingly good.
>
> -pam
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On 5/5/2010 9:27 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> I liked The Cosby Show. I thought the mom was too mean and the dad's
> sarcasm was sure to have gotten old, but I also was a Cosby fan from
> the 60's and so it was like Cosby routines with supporting characters.

We're huge Cosby fans - I listened to his albums like crazy when I was
in jr. high. We got to go see him do a live show 2 summers ago, at our
county fair. He was great - there were times we thought he was wandering
too far off topic and losing his train of thought, but he always wrapped
it all back up in the end. He brought some little kids up on the stage
and did a "Kids say the darndest things" bit. He asked one little girl,
"What is your favorite subject in school." She said, "Math." He
INSTANTLY and loudly commanded, "GO BACK TO YOUR SEAT." Then muttered
stuff about not wanting kids like her around. The audience thought it
was hysterically funny, but I thought the little girl was probably
scared and embarrassed and hurt.

When Rosie went through her Roseanne and Cosby Show stage, we watched
both of those shows several times every day - for a year or more. She
concluded that, of the two sets of parents, she preferred the Conners
(because they admitted when they were wrong and because they seemed to
care a lot more about how their kids felt). But that doesn't mean she
didn't love both shows.

-pam




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On 5/5/2010 8:23 AM, Joanna wrote:
>
> She used to be the mom on Gilmore Girls and I mostly liked that
> relationship.
> I really can't stand her patenting attitude on this new show.

So - don't you guys think that it is interesting to watch all those
different families - much of it, most of it, is about parents and
children (a bit is about adult-adult relationships). If we only watched
shows about people who behave well, it wouldn't be that interesting,
would it? I mean - do you not watch Romeo and Juliet because they act
stupid? Talk about cringe-worthy! (Not that Parenthood is very high
quality - it isn't.
They don't pay attention to the details of the reality of children's
lives at all. This week's soccer scenes were ridiculously inaccurate.
Their team played the same team,, twice in a row - same coach, different
uniforms. The parents all stood at the sidelines, nobody was sitting.
The coaches were blowing whistles - huh? That's the ref's job. And on
and on....no credibility when it comes to accuracy in that sense.)

But the writing is all about how parents and children might relate - and
I really do find that interesting to watch and think about and talk
about with my daughter. I don't judge a show based on whether or not I
like the way the parents parent, but on whether it is thought-provoking
and entertaining.


-pam



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-But the writing is all about how parents and children might relate
- and
I really do find that interesting to watch and think about and talk
about with my daughter. I don't judge a show based on whether or not I
like the way the parents parent, but on whether it is thought-provoking
and entertaining.-=-

It disturbs me when bad examples are broadcast to the world and some
people will take them as good examples. Whether it makes sense or
not, i don't want to be there.

When Holly was little she knew that kids' shows were fishing for kids
to respond, at least mentally, about the answer to a little problem or
situation--for kids to figure it out. She told me that situation
comedies about families were like that for parents, for the parents to
think of what they would do, and to feel better if they could think of
something better. So Pam and Holly seem less disturbed by the whole
thing than I am.

My boys weren't as interested in talking about family dynamics as
Holly was, and we found lots of examples in real life or movies.

Another factor: Twice we've been "a Nielsen family." I got used to
the idea that what we watched counted for 1200 families or whatever it
might've been from time to time, and it made me more aware of what I
was watching, and lending that "vote" to.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Su Penn

On May 5, 2010, at 9:38 PM, Pam Sorooshian wrote:

>
> But the writing is all about how parents and children might relate - and
> I really do find that interesting to watch and think about and talk
> about with my daughter. I don't judge a show based on whether or not I
> like the way the parents parent, but on whether it is thought-provoking
> and entertaining.

For me, I'm gonna say it fails on all three counts :-)

Really, though, I think shows with crappy parenting fall into the category, for me, of stuff I just don't need to see more of. I don't watch shows or movies with kids being kidnapped, or with graphic rape scenes, or with people being publicly humiliated, or where the humor is mostly based on people who supposedly love each other making nasty jokes at each other's expense. I just don't enjoy any of those things. I actually have very little time to watch TV--maybe an hour a day, often less. I'm actually that rare person who wishes she had time to watch _more_ TV than I do. So I cut shows out of the rotation pretty ruthlessly.

Now, if I had older kids (my oldest is just about to turn 9), and they were really into any of those shows... Well, I've watched Dragonball Z and more hours of Dora the Explorer than I can count (I find Dora the Explorer--the show, not the little animated person--very annoying), so I'd probably dive in with these shows too. My kids and I already talk about how my oldest son and I really don't like, say, the graphic cadavers in NCIS, but Carl, who just turned six, is fascinated by them (he likes anatomy books, too). If the show is on, Carl tells me and Eric when we can stop covering our eyes. So I think if there was someone in the house who was finding Parenthood entertaining or interesting, or even annoying in a thought-provoking instead of (to me) "Oh, more of this tired old crap" way, we'd be watching it and talking about it, too.

Su, mom to Eric, 8; Carl, 6; Yehva, 2.5
tapeflags.blogspot.com

Pam Sorooshian

On 5/5/2010 8:13 PM, Su Penn wrote:
> Really, though, I think shows with crappy parenting fall into the
> category, for me, of stuff I just don't need to see more of.
Almost all shows and movies and plays have crappy parenting - if there
are any parents and kids in the show at all. But most of them are not
"about" parenting - which is why I think we're enjoying Parenthood. It
isn't a very good show, but we're having a pretty good time cringing
together and talking about it.

-pam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On 5/5/2010 8:13 PM, Su Penn wrote:
> "Oh, more of this tired old crap" way, we'd be watching it and talking
> about it, too.

And, remember, it isn't tired old crap to a teenager whose main interest
in life seems to be how parents and children get along (or don't),
though. It is fascinating sociological drama.

She watched Arthur, episode after school-promoting episode, when she was
little, and, back then, she was always most interested in, guess what,
how the parents and kids treated each other. I remember her talking
about how the parents sometimes set the kids up to "be bad" by not
thinking ahead. The episode where DW plays with grandma's doll was one
of those, for anybody who knows the show.

-pam

JoyErin

-= And, remember, it isn't tired old crap to a teenager whose main interest
in life seems to be how parents and children get along (or don't), though.
It is fascinating sociological drama. =-

A year or two before Connor and Macalla were teenagers we'd watched those
Nanny shows, where the lady dressed a bit like a modern day governess would
come in and tell the parents how to get the
children 'to behave'. At certain points in the show I would have a hard
time watching. I loved the conversations that came from watching that show
though. Even dh, Mark, if he was home would
watch with us.

Recently I happened to catch a little bit of this show here in the UK called
outnumbered. This bit had so many funny lol moments (atm I don't know which
one that was). Since then I've watched a
couple of the shows. I think this show could possibly be the best parenting
show out there at the moment. It's so obvious these traditional parents are
trying so very hard at being the best parents
they can with the information they have. The dad seems to be especially
bumbling and out of his depth that even though his parenting can make ya
cringe and maybe go 'oh no! ' I think one can't
help but feel for him and want to give him a big ol' hug sometimes. It's
made very obvious to the viewer how smart the *children* are and not the
parents! At least to me, more traditional parents
possibly would see it differently I suppose. At times I do find the
parenting style a little hard to watch and take a break but so far I keep
coming back!

I looked on wiki and there's been an American pilot made of the show. In in
the UK version there is plenty of improvisation from the children. I didn't
know that before and so like the show that little
more now.

Here's the first part and episode of the show. There's not a ton lol
moments with this one but imo the bit starting at 2:39 totally is.

OUTNUMBERED S01 E01 part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fBBppLsu2s

If you check it out I hope you like it too,
Joy K


<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=4410250/grpspId=1705542111/msgId
=53857/stime=1273121293/nc1=1/nc2=2/nc3=3>


:


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On May 5, 2010, at 10:24 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:

> It disturbs me when bad examples are broadcast to the world and some
> people will take them as good examples.

Whether or not people think about it, the incidents get absorbed into
their understanding of "how the world works". By the time someone
becomes a parent, they've absorbed thousands and thousands of examples
of parents and children as adversaries from real life and stories.
Undoubtedly how their parents handled situations makes the largest
impression, but hundreds and hundreds of TV examples of the parent as
wanter of what's right and sensible and the child as wanter of what's
unreasonable with the goal of getting the child to accept they're
wrong and the parent is right aren't insignificant.

When they're faced with a real life conflict, they're drawing
conclusions from how things should or need to work based on all that
"data" they've been unwittingly collecting.

Probably how much thought someone gives to what they see depends on
their interests and type of intelligence. I know my radar gets alerted
to irritating parenting on TV more than when I was a kid.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cara Barlow

****Probably how much thought someone gives to what they see depends on
their interests and type of intelligence. I know my radar gets alerted to
irritating parenting on TV more than when I was a kid.*****


I remember watching A Christmas Story <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085334/>
when I was in college and thinking it was really funny. This past winter one
of Molly's friends was in a local theatrical production of it.

I borrowed the movie so we could watch it before going to see the play. I
was horrified at how immature, manipulative and mean the parents were! It
was just awful.

When I first watched it in the 1980's I was probably viewing if from the
child's point of view, and the way the adults behaved seemed perfectly
normal. Now I'm viewing it from a sensitized parent's point of view <g> and
it was hard for me to sit through.

Best wishes, Cara


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bob Collier

--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Probably how much thought someone gives to what they see depends on
> their interests and type of intelligence. I know my radar gets alerted
> to irritating parenting on TV more than when I was a kid.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


If I happen to catch anything on TV portraying parents behaving badly I change channels or switch off. I'm not remotely interested in watching anybody do anything badly to be honest when there are so many opportunities to watch people who are good at what they do.

Bob

Joyce Fetteroll

On May 6, 2010, at 8:50 AM, Bob Collier wrote:

> I'm not remotely interested in watching anybody do anything badly to
> be honest

Sometimes it's fun to watch someone do something badly ;-) For me, the
difference between watching parents parent badly in stories and being
entertained by someone trying to accomplish something with inadequate
skills is whether they know they're failing or not. What I find
irritating is when what I see as bad parenting is assumed by the
writers to be accepted as good and necessary parenting.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

keetry

> So - don't you guys think that it is interesting to watch all those
> different families - much of it, most of it, is about parents and
> children (a bit is about adult-adult relationships). If we only watched
> shows about people who behave well, it wouldn't be that interesting,
> would it?

It would be interesting to watch shows about those types of relationships and the different ways different people handle them. I have a hard time watching shows where the people just act stupid, though. That seems to be the trend with many network TV shows these days. The situations are meant to be funny based on reality but they are so ridiculous and the people so stupid that it's not a study of humor behavior anymore but just a bunch of the most outrageous situations and behaviors that the writers or directors could come up with. I'm with Su on that. I just can't sit through it. It's too annoying.

Alysia

Sandra Dodd

-=She watched Arthur, episode after school-promoting episode, when she
was
little, and, back then, she was always most interested in, guess what,
how the parents and kids treated each other. I remember her talking
about how the parents sometimes set the kids up to "be bad" by not
thinking ahead. The episode where DW plays with grandma's doll was one
of those, for anybody who knows the show.-=-

Arthur was one of Holly's favorites for a long time. She liked the
sibling aspects, and the parents.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

keetry

> I always thought Little Bill's parents were pretty cool too.>

And that's a Bill Cosby creation, right?

Sandra Dodd

Joy, the "Outnumbered" link got this for me in the U.S. Bummer! I'll
look at it in 2011 when I visit again.

"This video contains content from MyVideoRights, who has blocked it in
your country on copyright grounds."

There is a Brit show that had parenting I really liked. It was based
on a novel, I guess (or a series?) and it was Fortysomething. It was
more like a mini-series. The parents were played by Hugh Laurie and
Anna Chancellor. She usually gets stuck playing snooty but not
here. And he plays a doctor but not at all like Dr. House. <g>

American fans of House might like to see him in his own accent and
gait, rather than pretending to be a limping crotchety American.

Oh hey... it's on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fortysomething+episode+1&aq=0

They have three teen/young-adult sons who live with them, and they
relationships are more real than most fiction shows. Maybe parenting
is nicer in the U.K. in general, and that's a possibility.

I watched Precious yesterday for the first time. I had been afraid to
watch it, but although it's not a picnic, it's not unrelenting, and
there are bright parts. (Oooh! "unrelenting" and "relentless" are
used in there, and that's probably where i got that.) That is an
especially dark example of some very, very bad parenting. I'm not
recommending it, just saying compared to that, Fortysomething is a
glorious picnic with fireworks and warm blankets.

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

-=-When I first watched it in the 1980's I was probably viewing if
from the
child's point of view, and the way the adults behaved seemed perfectly
normal. Now I'm viewing it from a sensitized parent's point of view
<g> and
it was hard for me to sit through.-=-

I'm sure some of the things I've read and seen will seem yet again
different when I'm a mother-in-law and grandmother.

When I read Oliver Twist and A Christmas Carol as a kid, I thought
those adults were pretty mean. Of course reading them as an adult I
see that they were created to be monstrously cruel or stingy or
whatever. Cartoonishly so. But as a kid I couldn't tell a cartoon/
goofy depiction of an adult from just another of the millions of
adults of all stripes.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bun

--- In [email protected], k <katherand@...> wrote:
>> I'd also love to hear other shows commented on for the parenting
> style. What are some of the best or worst, in your opinion. Coming at
> this from a viewpoint of unschooling is a study of the general
> population of parenting styles, for sure... well, for me it is.
>

"Bernie Mac Show" - comedy, shows parenting that few would want to model! Laurie

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

<<I think the best ever is Little Bear! :)>>

Little Bear is the best!!

I saw two episodes of "In The Middle" and both were not too bad.
Not worthy of recomending but better than Desperate Housewifes where everyone 
things Linnette is the best mom ever ....ugh!

 
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny Cyphers

***"Bernie Mac Show" - comedy, shows parenting that few would want to model!***

What I like about that show though, is that he KNOWS he stinks at it. He tries all the traditional parenting stuff and it rarely to never works for him, often backfiring. What is nice about that particular show is that they show the kids view and why they did what they did, sometimes in a direct reaction to the bad parenting, or they show why they did what they did to get in trouble in the first place. As the audience you get to have empathy for the kids and see exactly how Bernie Mac messes up.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

lalow66

--- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
>
> <<I think the best ever is Little Bear! :)>>
>
> Little Bear is the best!!
>
> I saw two episodes of "In The Middle" and both were not too bad.
> Not worthy of recomending but better than Desperate Housewifes where everyone 
> things Linnette is the best mom ever ....ugh!
>
I kind of like the Middle.. atleast a few of the episodes I have watched. One evening my 8 year old and I were watching it and it was an episode when the mom was trying not to yell at the kids. It brought up a couple discussion about yelling, patience, what helps and what doesnt etc... I go through periods of time when being patient gets very difficult for me. I really struggle sometimes cause I know what I need to do, but then I yell. Today, the kids have been bickering alot, my husband left for a two week trip this morning, and we are all feeling it. And then I topped it all off with by yelling at them to stop fighting!!!! I think sometimes shows like that can be fun because we can laugh at ourselves, see how silly we most probably look when we are less than perfect ourselves.