Cara Barlow

Hi: I'm hoping some of you with older teens will be able to help me think
this through.

My older daughter (14) is interested in paganism. She's been reading about
it and I'm taking her to a local festival so she can check things out.

She comes by this interest naturally enough - I love learning about
different faiths. We attend a UU church, and she's acquainted with some
pagan adults in the church.

I have mixed, uncomfortable feelings about paganism.

It's the first situation where I can't whole-heartedly endorse one of her
interests. I have a pretty low tolerance for new-age kinds of thinking and I
want to protect her from negative fallout from some of our more conventional
friends. It's not as easy as if she were expressing an interest in
Christianity or Judaism. <g> On the other hand, I also don't want to squash
her curiosity - if she's interested I want to support that interest.

She's very aware that not everyone is accepting of paganism. We live in a
fairly small town (14,000), and are out in the community - people know us.
We're already careful about how we talk to people about our homeschooling,
so being discrete is nothing new to her.

I remember being interested in paganism when I was in my late teens/early
20's, but it was an intellectual curiosity and I was living in a big city
where people really didn't care what you believed. I think the part that
makes me most nervous about this for her is that she might be ostracized by
some of her friends (or more likely her friend's parents) if they found out
she was pagan or even dabbling in it.

Anyway - please let me know if you have any thoughts. Best wishes, Cara


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-
She's very aware that not everyone is accepting of paganism. We live
in a
fairly small town (14,000), and are out in the community - people know
us.
We're already careful about how we talk to people about our
homeschooling,
so being discrete is nothing new to her.-=-

I have a couple of ideas.

Maybe you could ask the pagan friends from church whether she could go
with them to the next ceremony/observance. There might be a May Day-
ish thing. Summer Solstice is coming in June.

Maybe both you and she could talk about it in terms of her looking
into it, studying it, doing a long-term observation... something.
Call it anthropology/study of religion, maybe. If she "converts" at
some point, that would be "at some point" and not in advance of her
even knowing more about it.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Claire

I don't have teens, but just wanted to pick up on a few points.

Cara wrote:
>>She comes by this interest naturally enough - I love learning about
>>different faiths. We attend a UU church, and she's acquainted with >>some pagan adults in the church.

I don't know what a UU church is, but it seems it is accepting of people identifying as pagan? So there is already some support within your community for these kinds of beliefs and practices.

Cara wrote:
>>I have mixed, uncomfortable feelings about paganism.

Just wondering why you have uncomfortable feelings about paganism. My understanding is that it is a belief system based on reverence for nature and female power. Nothing to do with so-called devil worship.

Cara wrote:
>>I have a pretty low tolerance for new-age kinds of thinking ...

Again, I'm no expert, but my understanding is that paganism is a very old system of belief.

I understand your concerns about your daughter being ostracised for her interest in paganism - it's hard when as unschoolers you are already in a tiny minority. But she is a teenage girl exploring different ideas as her worldview broadens. An interest in a certain belief system now doesn't mean she will adopt it wholesale for the rest of her life. Supporting these explorations shows her that her interests are important to you. As with any other strongly-held belief on the part of the parents, I think the best thing to remember is that those are your beliefs, not necessarily your children's. Living by your principles without foisting them on others is the best way to demonstrate their worth.

Claire

diana jenner

On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Cara Barlow <carabarlow@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hi: I'm hoping some of you with older teens will be able to help me think
> this through.
>
> My older daughter (14) is interested in paganism. She's been reading about
> it and I'm taking her to a local festival so she can check things out.
>
> She comes by this interest naturally enough - I love learning about
> different faiths. We attend a UU church, and she's acquainted with some
> pagan adults in the church.
>
> I have mixed, uncomfortable feelings about paganism.
>
> It's the first situation where I can't whole-heartedly endorse one of her
> interests. I have a pretty low tolerance for new-age kinds of thinking and
> I
> want to protect her from negative fallout from some of our more
> conventional
> friends. It's not as easy as if she were expressing an interest in
> Christianity or Judaism. <g> On the other hand, I also don't want to squash
> her curiosity - if she's interested I want to support that interest.
>

Perhaps it will help to think of her interest as searching out the roots of
Christianity ;) There is no better place to find living pagan rituals than
the Catholic Church (it's historical fact they adopted many pagan rituals as
a way to incorporate the locals into their theology).
Paganism is far more diverse than the box called Christianity, there are
regions and sects and actual religions. A dabbling interest will take you
amazing places, guaranteed!
Joseph Campbell's Power of Myth is a great place to start.


>
> She's very aware that not everyone is accepting of paganism. We live in a
> fairly small town (14,000), and are out in the community - people know us.
> We're already careful about how we talk to people about our homeschooling,
> so being discrete is nothing new to her.
>
It's not easy to be "thrown out of the broom closet" in a small town, I know
all too well. Much better to figure out how to navigate those waters with a
supportive mama as a young person, than as a new single mom in a brand new
town trying to break into the local homeschooling group (that one hurt. the
ripples are still felt long after I've been gone...). There's a way, I've
learned, to talk about your differing beliefs in the context of your
audience's belief system. Makes my crazy ideas not seem so crazy ;) Then
again, I've made peace with my craziness since then, too ;)


> I remember being interested in paganism when I was in my late teens/early
> 20's, but it was an intellectual curiosity and I was living in a big city
> where people really didn't care what you believed. I think the part that
> makes me most nervous about this for her is that she might be ostracized by
> some of her friends (or more likely her friend's parents) if they found out
> she was pagan or even dabbling in it.
>
So you think your daughter should prioritize how these people might react
*over* her curiosity about a certain very wide, historically based, topic?
If I had to choose between the opinions of strangers and the desires of my
child, choosing my child is not difficult.
I can't imagine looking at my kid and honestly saying, what "they" think is
more important than what you want to know. I couldn't do it.

~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.wordpress.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cara Barlow

***Perhaps it will help to think of her interest as searching out the roots
of Christianity ;) There is no better place to find living pagan rituals
than the Catholic Church (it's historical fact they adopted many pagan
rituals as a way to incorporate the locals into their theology).***

We've been doing this very casually for a few years. I have a friend who is
a retired Latin teacher, and we've been learning Latin with her, and a
by-product of that has been reading about the Romans and early
Christianity.

***Paganism is far more diverse than the box called Christianity, there are
regions and sects and actual religions. A dabbling interest will take you
amazing places, guaranteed!***

This is one of the reasons I want to support her interest. I think it's
really cool and exciting. I just want to protect her from outside bumps
while she's exploring.

***Joseph Campbell's Power of Myth is a great place to start.***

I have this on our coffee table right now. I work in a library which is a
wonderful thing when you're unschooling. <g>

>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cara Barlow

***Just wondering why you have uncomfortable feelings about paganism. My
understanding is that it is a belief system based on reverence for nature
and female power. Nothing to do with so-called devil worship.***

This made me snort <g>. My concern is based in experience of seeing others
in our community who are openly pagan treated very badly. I don't want my
daughter to be treated that way.

***Again, I'm no expert, but my understanding is that paganism is a very old
system of belief.***

Some of it is. Lots of what's being marketed right now isn't.
Sometimes that matters to people, other times it doesn't.



Best wishes, Cara


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-
***Joseph Campbell's Power of Myth is a great place to start.***

I have this on our coffee table right now. I work in a library which
is a
wonderful thing when you're unschooling. <g>-=-

Just about everything can be a wonderful thing when you're unschooling!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny Cyphers

***Just wondering why you have uncomfortable feelings about paganism. My understanding is that it is a belief system based on reverence for nature and female power. Nothing to do with so-called devil worship.***


In my limited understanding of it, the devil probably doesn't exist, since that dichotomy isn't part of that religious belief. Paganism is huge, and there are many ways in which people follow it.

I don't think Paganism is a new age thing. There are new age ideas that piggy back onto Paganism, but Paganism is older than the Greeks, there is nothing new about it.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny Cyphers

***So you think your daughter should prioritize how these people might react
*over* her curiosity about a certain very wide, historically based, topic?
If I had to choose between the opinions of strangers and the desires of my
child, choosing my child is not difficult.
I can't imagine looking at my kid and honestly saying, what "they" think is
more important than what you want to know. I couldn't do it.***

Right, and there's no reason that this teen will stay in that area after she leaves the nest. She need not be ostracized forever! Kids gravitate toward their interests. Her interests may lead her somewhere more tolerant.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On May 2, 2010, at 3:18 PM, Jenny Cyphers wrote:

> I don't think Paganism is a new age thing.

There was never one religion called paganism. Pagan was just what the
early Christians called the non-Christian religions of the people they
came in contact with. It's like saying "not Caucasian".

Is there anyone practicing a "pagan" religion passed in an unbroken
chain of practitioners from the early days of Christianity? I'd be
very surprised! Current day pagans may have revived some old practices
and beliefs but it was never one religion so present day practices are
just what feels like it works together.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny Cyphers

***Current day pagans may have revived some old practices
and beliefs but it was never one religion so present day practices are
just what feels like it works together.***

Exactly! What Diana said about historically following Christianity is pretty accurate in learning about Paganism. My basic understanding is that Paganism is anything that isn't monotheistic, and that's the basic underlying factor. The Greeks fit that category and so did the Celts, and probably all the people who practiced Hinduism were considered Pagan.

In its modern day form, it encompasses anyone who isn't following a monotheistic religious practice. It can take the form of any local indigenous religious practice, so "new age" is something that could certainly be co-opted into a Pagan belief system.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-
I don't think Paganism is a new age thing. There are new age ideas
that piggy back onto Paganism, but Paganism is older than the Greeks,
there is nothing new about it.-=-

Joyce already made the point I was going to make

Paganism is a reconstruction. It's a little like being one of the
historic reenactors at a living history museum, only some of the
people in the religion are unaware of that. And most living history
museums have MUCH more evidence for who would have been there, wearing
what, speaking of what.

Paganism is like wicca/witchcraft. It's created of clues and parts.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cara Barlow

>
> ***Right, and there's no reason that this teen will stay in that area after
> she leaves the nest. She need not be ostracized forever! Kids gravitate
> toward their interests. Her interests may lead her somewhere more
> tolerant.***
>

I feel it's the parent's responsibility to help the teen navigate the world
she lives in and to make her choices. Not squash her interests or oppress
her, but help her do what she wants to do, to understand how it might
*affect* others in the community and the *effect* she might cause <g>. Then
it's an informed choice.

She's not going to be on her own for at least a few more years. And it's a
valuable skill to be able to negotiate living in a small town! :-)

Best wishes, Cara


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

NCMama

> She's not going to be on her own for at least a few more years. And it's a
> valuable skill to be able to negotiate living in a small town! :-)


Some people would say, it's a valuable skill to recite times tables, so I make my kids do that. Or, reading's a valuable skill, so I'm going to teach and work with them until they get that. Not reading and not doing times tables can also get you ostracized. Guess what? Making your child do those things to fit in is not unschooling. Neither is NOT supporting your daughter, because of your discomfort.

It's more valuable to know that your parent supports your interests, way of being, and place on your path no matter what. In your reluctance and caution, you ARE saying that other people's opinions are more important than your daughter. You can be the open, safe space she needs *if* someone rejects her for her interests. But you can only be that if you drop the judgment and discomfort.

A friend posted this quote on facebook today:

"I support my children's complex/non-typical interests and desires by seeing Who They Are in their hearts, and by ignoring mainstream's *popular* voice. That's what I did from the moment I gave birth to the most unique child I had ever known...one who went SO completely *against the grain* of mainstream. And that's what I continue to do in all that they express an interest in. Because when I shut out what *others* say, and when I do the work to move past my own preconceived judgments and definitions, I see Their Joy, Their True Interest, and my world is greatly expanded. The best part? My children and I move closer together in our relationship...trust and respect are built up instead of dwindled down." ~ Anne Ohman

Why teach your daughter to twist and hide who she is? Expand to be the space she fits into, don't ask her to crush herself to fit in somewhere else. Help her create a community of people and friends who accept her, so those who don't won't have as big of an effect. My son has a large online group of friends, fellow geeks who understand and "get" each other. He hasn't had to change one thing about himself to live in our community; we created community for him.

Caren

Cara Barlow

> > She's not going to be on her own for at least a few more years. And it's
> a
> > valuable skill to be able to negotiate living in a small town! :-)
>
> Some people would say, it's a valuable skill to recite times tables, so I
> make my kids do that. Or, reading's a valuable skill, so I'm going to teach
> and work with them until they get that. Not reading and not doing times
> tables can also get you ostracized. Guess what? Making your child do those
> things to fit in is not unschooling. Neither is NOT supporting your
> daughter, because of your discomfort.****
>

I think the difference is that I see negotiating living in a small town as
being like learning to drive a car. It helps you to get to places to do the
things you want.

I'm really finding all the responses to this conversation interesting!

Best wishes, Cara


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cara Barlow

I just had another thought I wanted to throw into the ring.

In the How to Be A Good Unschooler list that Pam S. wrote <
http://sandradodd.com/pam/howto> there's a bit about natural consequences.

"8. Let kids learn. Don't protect them or control them so much that they
don't get needed experience. But, don't use the excuse of "natural
consequences" to teach them a lesson. Instead, exemplify kindness and
consideration. If you see a toy left lying in the driveway, don't leave it
there to be run over, pick it up and set it aside because that is the kind
and considerate thing to do and because kindness and consideration are
values you want to pass on to your kids. Natural consequences will happen,
they are inevitable. But it isn't "natural" anymore if you could have
prevented it, but chose not to do so."

How does this relate to teens and helping them negotiate their way in the
world?

Best wishes, Cara


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-
> She's not going to be on her own for at least a few more years. And
it's a
> valuable skill to be able to negotiate living in a small town! :-)

-=-Some people would say, it's a valuable skill to recite times
tables, so I make my kids do that. Or, reading's a valuable skill, so
I'm going to teach and work with them until they get that. Not reading
and not doing times tables can also get you ostracized. Guess what?
Making your child do those things to fit in is not unschooling.
Neither is NOT supporting your daughter, because of your discomfort.-=-


I'm going to disagree some.

Those who have never lived in a small town don't know the reality of
everyone knowing who your parents are just by looking at you, and
knowing where you live, and your dog's name.

When my mom wanted to go to Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, she moved
to Albuquerque for a few years, because there IS no "anonymous" in a
small town. A friend of mine needs AA right now, but he's in Silver
City, recently moved there because he married into one of the most
prominent families in the area. He can't go to AA there; it won't work.

The realities of living in a small town for a family that lives there
is NOT like reciting times tables or reading early. And if the family
ran a library in the small town, or a store and the kids needed to
give change, those things would be needed skills (not needing to be
taught, maybe but definitely needing to be considered).

The mom isn't teaching her to use subways because she might need to
someday. She's coaching her on the realities of life where she is
right now, today.

My kids have used the Metro in Washington, but they had people with
them to help. Holly's used the Tube, but was with locals. Until
someone is at the point that they need to use BART or the El or
whatever, they don't need to know yet.

Someone living in a small town is living in a small town. They might
not need to lock their car or their house. They might get to take
their groceries home and pay next time, if they forgot their money at
the store. But there are some things worth waiting for later about.

Sandra



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I think the difference is that I see negotiating living in a small
town as
being like learning to drive a car. It helps you to get to places to
do the
things you want.-=-

I read this after I used the subway example.

True! There are people from public-transportation places who will
move to a rural area and expect to be able to live without a car. The
realities of life can be bigger than ideals sometimes.

If we were talking Christianity, a quick conversion would be necessary
in case she died soon. That would be eternal salvation we were
talking about.

Neo-paganism isn't a life and death situation, and so shouldn't be
considered as a religious conversion in the same way Christianity or
Islam would be.


Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Natural consequences will happen,
they are inevitable. But it isn't "natural" anymore if you could have
prevented it, but chose not to do so."

-=-How does this relate to teens and helping them negotiate their way
in the world?-=-

I watched a good documentary recently on homosexuality in
fundamentalist Christian families. It was called "For The Bible Tells
Me So."


I'm going for a loop off topic for just a moment, because it parallels.

If a fundamentalist family could accept that a son or daughter was
homosexual and could trouble themselves to learn what is and what is
really NOT in the Bible, that would be enough. To let them live in
peace in the family would be enough.

If that family were in a small town in the southern U.S. (or some
other kinds of places in the world), it would be horribly
irresponsible for them to encourage that child to make extreme
physical-appearance changes, or to even go out and be open about the
sexuality. If the reality is that in some places it will mean death
to the child or shunning of the entire family, then the prudent thing
would be to accept it privately but keep it private. When the child
is ready to move, the decision of where to move would probably involve
that factor and the parents would be compassionate to advise
accordingly.

Sandra






http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0912583/
For the Bible Tells Me So (2007)

Deena Seckinger

--- On Mon, 5/3/10, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

<< the prudent thing would be to accept it privately but keep it private >>

I respectfully disagree. I believe the same principles apply to religion as apply to any other personal interest or decision a child makes which is outside the "norm".  While it may not be necessary to broadcast it to the community, I believe it is harmful to hide it and can cause unnecessary shame and confusion.  If it becomes public knowledge in a natural way, the child should have the tools to handle that.  If you suspect it will be looked on unfavorably, that is knowledge you should share with your child before they encounter hostility. 
 
*** EXAMPLE:  Our daughter wanted to dye her hair blue and we offered to her that her more conservative friends have made fun of others in the past when they don't "fit the mold" and had she considered their possible reactions.  She thought "surely they won't treat ME like that" and asked what they would think BEFORE she did it.  They made fun of her and told her they wouldn't be seen with her if she did it.  She did it anyway, but with full knowledge of the potential reaction and with preparation of how she would handle it. ***
 
We live in a small town and attended one of the larger, most influential Christian churches in the town partly because you're "suppose to attend church and it's suppose to be Christian".  When we broke free from the "suppose to" life, we were very clear with ourselves and our children about the potential repercussions.  It would have been irresponsible to withhold that knowledge while they were in the midst of making their decisions.  We don't volunteer our beliefs to others because there is no immediate need to do that, but if it comes up naturally (i.e. you must sign this statement of Christian faith to attend this class) then we address it at the time in an appropriate manner (i.e. we don't sign public statements on private matters).
 
 
Deena in McDonough, GA

Knowledge which is acquired under compulsion obtains no hold on the mind.
~ Plato (427 BC-347 BC)




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dana Hayden

We live in a small town with a high ratio of Christian churches and a pretty
conservative population. My 16yr old son wants to put a bumper sticker on
the car he drives with "ATHEISM" is big letters and in smaller letters
"Cures Religious Terrorism". I asked that he wait to put that sticker on.
While I am comfortable with his position on religion, I worry about him
being in the car and having to deal with possible confrontation.

We talked about it at length, did some research on line regarding the
definitions of "secular", "humanism" and visited Sam Harris' site.

He's agreed to use the sticker for something else.
I'm OK with his "Blessed are the Cheesmakers"/John Cleese sticker.

Dana





On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 8:03 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

>
>
> -=-
> > She's not going to be on her own for at least a few more years. And
> it's a
> > valuable skill to be able to negotiate living in a small town! :-)
>
> -=-Some people would say, it's a valuable skill to recite times
> tables, so I make my kids do that. Or, reading's a valuable skill, so
> I'm going to teach and work with them until they get that. Not reading
> and not doing times tables can also get you ostracized. Guess what?
> Making your child do those things to fit in is not unschooling.
> Neither is NOT supporting your daughter, because of your discomfort.-=-
>
> I'm going to disagree some.
>
> Those who have never lived in a small town don't know the reality of
> everyone knowing who your parents are just by looking at you, and
> knowing where you live, and your dog's name.
>
> When my mom wanted to go to Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, she moved
> to Albuquerque for a few years, because there IS no "anonymous" in a
> small town. A friend of mine needs AA right now, but he's in Silver
> City, recently moved there because he married into one of the most
> prominent families in the area. He can't go to AA there; it won't work.
>
> The realities of living in a small town for a family that lives there
> is NOT like reciting times tables or reading early. And if the family
> ran a library in the small town, or a store and the kids needed to
> give change, those things would be needed skills (not needing to be
> taught, maybe but definitely needing to be considered).
>
> The mom isn't teaching her to use subways because she might need to
> someday. She's coaching her on the realities of life where she is
> right now, today.
>
> My kids have used the Metro in Washington, but they had people with
> them to help. Holly's used the Tube, but was with locals. Until
> someone is at the point that they need to use BART or the El or
> whatever, they don't need to know yet.
>
> Someone living in a small town is living in a small town. They might
> not need to lock their car or their house. They might get to take
> their groceries home and pay next time, if they forgot their money at
> the store. But there are some things worth waiting for later about.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cara Barlow

This is a funny coincidence. I know Gene Robinson and his ex-wife Boo (the
movie features Gene and his family). I attended his consecration in 2004. It
was wonderful and frightening at the same time. Gene wore a bullet-proof
vest, there were protesters outside, and the police searched us before we
entered the auditorium. He's incredibly brave and I'm proud of him. Best
wishes, Cara

>
> I watched a good documentary recently on homosexuality in
> fundamentalist Christian families. It was called "For The Bible Tells
> Me So."
>
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0912583/
> For the Bible Tells Me So (2007)
>
> _
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-<< the prudent thing would be to accept it privately but keep it
private >>

I respectfully disagree. I believe the same principles apply to
religion as apply to any other personal interest or decision a child
makes which is outside the "norm". While it may not be necessary to
broadcast it to the community, I believe it is harmful to hide it and
can cause unnecessary shame and confusion. If it becomes public
knowledge in a natural way, the child should have the tools to handle
that. -=-

"Should" is easily said. NO child has the tools to handle the extreme
prejudice of violent groups of religious zealots.

A child won't be beat to death for having blue hair.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robin Bentley

>
> Paganism is a reconstruction. It's a little like being one of the
> historic reenactors at a living history museum, only some of the
> people in the religion are unaware of that. And most living history
> museums have MUCH more evidence for who would have been there, wearing
> what, speaking of what.
>
Isn't every religion that isn't monotheistic considered "pagan" with a
lower case "p"?

Shintoism, Hinduism, Native American, Australian Aboriginal and
Polynesian nature-based religions, for instance, would be pagan, but
not "Paganism."

Robin B.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On May 3, 2010, at 12:29 PM, Deena Seckinger wrote:

> I respectfully disagree. I believe the same principles apply to
> religion as apply to any other personal interest or decision a child
> makes which is outside the "norm".

Maybe you're reading a parent deciding for a child into what's been
written?

It's meant as advice. It's respectful and kind to talk over with a
child the potential fallout from going against the norm in a small town.

It's information to help them decide. One of the great benefits of
mindful parenting is that parents can share their thoughts and
opinions without it being code for "Don't even think of doing that."
After years of being on their side, working with them to get what they
want, when a parent says "Not a good idea ..." children will listen
and think about what's said because they know it's not meant as a
barrier to stop them from what they want. It's meant as information
about real problems they'll be facing.

> When we broke free from the "suppose to" life, we were very clear
> with ourselves and our children about the potential repercussions.
> It would have been irresponsible to withhold that knowledge while
> they were in the midst of making their decisions.


And if one child had decided the repercussions weren't worth it, what
then?

Not every difference will be worth the fall out and it's good for kids
to know before hand.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-
> When we broke free from the "suppose to" life, we were very clear
> with ourselves and our children about the potential repercussions.
> It would have been irresponsible to withhold that knowledge while
> they were in the midst of making their decisions.-=-

What's the other life you're in now if it's not "the suppose to"
life? Is there a "have to" life on the other side? An "everything
must be supported" life? Being partners doesn't mean one is the
servant of the other's whims. If my partner (husband or child) wants
to do something that I think would be harmful to any of us, I'm a
partner too.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

>>>"Should" is easily said. NO child has the tools to handle the extreme
prejudice of violent groups of religious zealots.

A child won't be beat to death for having blue hair.<<<

And while I know that people have been victims of violence for sexual
orientation, I've not heard of paganists being victims of violence.
Have they?

Maybe I'm out of the loop. The worst I've heard is that pagans might
be told they're going to hell.

That doesn't mean that other consequences wouldn't be just as bad if a
child has a lot of close ties with people who would disapprove and
shun someone with a pagan interest.

~Katherine

keetry

> We live in a small town with a high ratio of Christian churches and a pretty
> conservative population. My 16yr old son wants to put a bumper sticker on
> the car he drives with "ATHEISM" is big letters and in smaller letters
> "Cures Religious Terrorism". I asked that he wait to put that sticker on.
> While I am comfortable with his position on religion, I worry about him
> being in the car and having to deal with possible confrontation.

I live in a relatively small town in the Southern US. The only thing that makes the town "big" is the military base. If it weren't for that, this would be a tiny town. That might make a difference to some extent but most of the locals and most people in the military are Christian religious conservatives. People stand out on the street corner on Sunday holding signs about the end of the world and salvation and such on a regular basis. I drive around with an applique (?) on my car that is a fish with 4 legs holding a wrench. It says, "evolve" inside.That's not quite as confrontational as the bumper sticker described here, maybe, but I'm sure it's offensive to some. I have never had anyone confront me in anyway about it.

Alysia

Rebecca M.

I'm coming in a bit late but I've been thinking about this thread and had some questions.

> I want to protect her from negative fallout from some of our more conventional
> friends.

What might that look like (the negative fallout)? Would that be scary (potentially violent) or would it just be more of a social issue (as you state below)?

It sounds like your daughter would be able to keep this as a private, quiet part of her life (discreet), so maybe the friends don't need to know anything about this (until your daughter is ready to be more public about it). I explored Wicca for a brief time in my early 20s but I didn't feel a need to tell anyone (especially my Baptist family) about it... and they still don't know. <g>

> I think the part that
> makes me most nervous about this for her is that she might be ostracized by
> some of her friends (or more likely her friend's parents) if they found out
> she was pagan or even dabbling in it.

How does your daughter feel about that? Is she worried about losing friends? Or these particular friends? If it's a possibility, it's certainly something for her to consider... maybe not so much as an "if" but as a "how".

Personally, I'm not big on using "what might the neighbours think" as the litmus test for deciding whether or not to pursue an interest. If your daughter isn't worried about losing friends, then it might be fine for her to go ahead with her exploration (if you can also be fine with it... I did see that bit about your concerns about New Age stuff). And if she is worried about losing friends, then perhaps you can help her explore discreet ways to pursue this interest (I think suggestions may have already been given).

She's 14. She'll soon be at the age where she'll explore this without your support if she really wants to (maybe she's already there). And I think you can certainly advise her and share your concerns without making the decision for her.

- Rebecca