misajune

Hello!
I am a fairly new homeschooling mom to a 7 1/2 y.o. son and 5 y.o. daughter. We live in Orlando, FL and started homeschooling about 7 months ago, but unschooling for only a month, maybe two.

I am grateful for the recent post on this group "Moving past deschooling to unschooling"--thank you! Kathy described my experiences in the past month of watching my son unravel the years of traditional school experiences (since he was 2 1/2), and even when we started homeschooling months ago. How long will it take to deschool--not only him, but me, too???

It takes every ounce of self restraint to not pull out a workbook or push a writing exercise on him when a panic attack of "I'm not doing enough" hits me. I am watching and waiting now more than anything. I am trying very hard to relax, learn his learning style, and capitalize on teachable moments WITHOUT going on 10 minute rants with unsolicited information.

Finally, my son is saying that he likes homeschooling. That is a first since we started 7 months ago. He is actually pulling books out on his own, reading or looking at pictures--I'm not sure, but I don't care. Three months ago, he wouldn't go near a book unless I pushed him (and I was so proud that he started reading at 4 in Montessori--I didn't know I was setting him up to hate reading by age 7).

The best thing so far is that I am actually listening to my children now and trusting them. They seem happier and I see self-direction and self-initiation from them more. Perhaps it was always there and I was just too busy worrying about my agenda and what I thought they should be learning to see it.

I still need help and I still have fear, which is why I signed on to this group. Am I romanticizing unschooling? Is this really going to work? When do I know that I may need to push them more?
True unschooling is rare around here and more often than not, I eventually find myself comparing, worrying, and doubting.
Thanks for being there and any suggestions on readings, support, or resources would be terrific!
Misa

Sandra Dodd

-=-How long will it take to deschool--not only him, but me, too???-=

A month per year is what I've always heard, and haven't seen anything
to change that expectation.

A month per year of school involvement, including school at home. So
anytime you do fall to the pressure of bringing out workbooks, you
start over. <g>

http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
There are tons of ideas there, and different people's descriptions and
takes on deschooling.

Sandra

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Sandra Dodd

-=-I am watching and waiting now more than anything. I am trying very
hard to relax, learn his learning style, and capitalize on teachable
moments WITHOUT going on 10 minute rants with unsolicited information.-

You don't need to know his "learning style" for unschooling to work.

For thinking about how much information to give in what you're calling
"a teachable moment," think of friends of yours who might be visiting,
and pick something up of yours and turn it over in their hands.
Would that elicit a ten minute rant?

Treat your children like friends, like guests, like people.

Another model to consider is "sex ed." When a child first asks where
babies come from, he doesn't want ten minutes of information. He
wants five or ten words. No details. No genetics, no positions, no
birth control or sexually-transmitted-disease warnings.

Answer each question simply. If there's another question after that,
answer that simply. It's called "conversation." :-)

Sandra

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Sandra Dodd

-=- They seem happier and I see self-direction and self-initiation
from them more. Perhaps it was always there and I was just too busy
worrying about my agenda and what I thought they should be learning to
see it.-=-

You're looking for "self direction" and "self-initiation." Why all
the big words?

-=-Am I romanticizing unschooling? Is this really going to work? When
do I know that I may need to push them more?-=-

You need to never push them more.

Unschooling can work if you don't screw it up. Luckily for you, people
on this list brainstormed one day to make a list of ways it can be
screwed up.

http://sandradodd.com/screwitup

I will credit those people when I do a presentation on how to screw up
unschooling in June at the Great Big Happy Life Unschooling Conference
in early June.

Sandra




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Su Penn

On Apr 12, 2010, at 10:23 AM, misajune wrote:

> It takes every ounce of self restraint to not pull out a workbook or push a writing exercise on him when a panic attack of "I'm not doing enough" hits me

Do you need to maybe get the workbooks out of the house for now?

There are lots of things you can do when that panic hits that are not workbooks or writing exercises: invite him to bake a cake with you, or go on a walk, or visit the craft store, or play a game. I have lots of pull-it-off-the-shelf stuff that isn't workbooks. But remember that it is OK if he doesn't want to do whatever it is with you.

There's also lots of stuff you can just do for you. Is there anything new you'd like to try? Projects you've put on hold? Something you'd like to know more about? Get interested, get busy, distract yourself from fretting about what the kids are up to.

> . I am watching and waiting now more than anything. I am trying very hard to relax, learn his learning style, and capitalize on teachable moments WITHOUT going on 10 minute rants with unsolicited information.

I think you may need to let go of the idea of "teachable moments." People's descriptions of how they grabbed a teachable moment so often sound to me like the mom was lying in wait, ready to pounce, ready to force a quick lesson on fractions when all the kid wanted to know was how many slices of pizza he could have and still make sure he left enough for everybody else. Sometimes I think "teachable moment" is code for "suck the joy out of a moment of wonder or curiosity."

Can you look for "connectable moments" instead? Like, taking two minutes to watch him play his video game? Or bringing him a snack when he's busy with something? Or issuing a no-strings-attached invitation to just do something fun with you?

> I still need help and I still have fear, which is why I signed on to this group. Am I romanticizing unschooling? Is this really going to work? When do I know that I may need to push them more?

I had a failed experiment in giving my oldest son what I thought was the world's gentlest nudge toward reading and numeracy this fall. I have been loathe to mention it here because YES YOU ALL TOLD ME SO, YOU'D BEEN TELLING ME SO FOR YEARS BUT I THOUGHT I KNEW BETTER DIDN'T I? And came *this* close to creating a math aversion.

I thought Eric, who can sometimes be easily frustrated and give up on things, needed me to work with him on, say, reading, because I thought he needed to learn to stick with something through frustration, to get to the good stuff that can happen when you persevere. Turns out he made a lot of progress in that area this year, but not from doing Bob books with me. It was from a big, open-ended RPG video game called Morrowind, which gave him lots of opportunities to set goals and work through the things that had to be done to achieve those goals, even if they were frustrating, or hard at first, or kind of tedious.

He also learned more math and reading from Morrowind than from anything else we've ever done. And he never had to be pushed to do it at all.

Su, mom to Eric, 8; Carl, 6; Yehva, 2.5

Jenny Cyphers

***Is this really going to work? When do I know that I may need to push them more?***

I'd say that you won't need to push ever. Kids that are interested in the world will find things to be interested in. Unschooled kids don't lose that curiosity like schooled kids do. I suppose it in some ways school is a means to an end and unschooling is more about the journey. If it's a journey then pushing won't be needed, encouragement sometimes, stopping and resting sometimes, changing directions sometimes, getting fuel sometimes, but not pushing. Pushing requires a passive object that can be pushed. Kids aren't passive objects, not even the easy compliant pushable kids are passive objects.





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Joanna

>
> Can you look for "connectable moments" instead? Like, taking two minutes to watch him play his video game? Or bringing him a snack when he's busy with something? Or issuing a no-strings-attached invitation to just do something fun with you?

I like that a lot--connectable moments. What a nice way to think of it! Lately my daughter has been so heavily immersed in WoW that we haven't been spending that much time together. In fact, she's away, by herself, in a room so that she can concentrate without interruption from first waking until lights out.

Every time I see her, bring her food or she comes up for air to run out and ask for something, I think about having a connectable moment--see--now I have a nifty new phrase for it! It seems to really link up those long stretches where we aren't seeing each other anymore. I giver her a hug, find out what she's doing, tickle her or something to connect. Even though we aren't together for most of the waking hours, I'm not feeling disconnected from her at all.

Connectable moments-- :-)

Joanna
>

Joanna

> -=-I still need help and I still have fear, which is why I signed on to this group. Am I romanticizing unschooling? Is this really going to work? When do I know that I may need to push them more?
> True unschooling is rare around here and more often than not, I eventually find myself comparing, worrying, and doubting.-=-

My son appreciates a good push now and then--my daughter not at all. But you won't know IF one or both of your children would benefit from that for a while. Let the idea of pushing go for now, and when you've established real connection, you'll know. If you are comparing, worrying and doubting, you will not be in a position to really know when they might benefit from a push--because if it is needed/wanted by one of your children, it won't be in any context of your anxiety for them. And you won't be thinking about pushing "them." Don't lump your kids together--their needs will be very different from each other as you go down this path.

You are probably thinking "push" in the conventional way that parents do. "Should I push them to practice the piano, or finish this class, etc." Those are examples of pushing a child because of the parents anxiety over who they will become. "If I don't push him to practice, he won't learn discipline." "If she doesn't finish this class, she'll never learn to keep her commitments, or she will always quit when things get hard." These examples all have to do with the future--not the here and now, and NOT what is important to the child. If a child knows they want to discontinue (see? you don't even need the word quit!) then that is fine. You can converse with them and get a sense of what is really going on, but you have to listen. These are things that create trust and connection--the listening and the allowing. Forcing and pushing put connection at risk at best, and destroy it at worst.

Children need to have choice, even if they don't choose well. I know it's probably not pc to say that they don't choose well sometimes, but they don't--mine don't always choose well. But one of the questions I ask myself, if I'm feeling anxious, is do I want them practicing with these choices now, when I'm here to help, or when they go to college, or have a job and are out on their own. That always makes me feel better about allowing for more choices now. And they gain confidence every time they make choices.

Joanna

misajune

Thanks for all the responses!! Everything from "connectable moments" to the answers regarding if "pushing" kids to learn is necessary.
I feel more at ease than I did earlier and know that we are on the right track. I just have to trust the deschooling process and trust my children!! It is good to meet you all.

Thank you again,
Misa


--- In [email protected], "Joanna" <ridingmom@...> wrote:
>
>
> > -=-I still need help and I still have fear, which is why I signed on to this group. Am I romanticizing unschooling? Is this really going to work? When do I know that I may need to push them more?
> > True unschooling is rare around here and more often than not, I eventually find myself comparing, worrying, and doubting.-=-
>
> My son appreciates a good push now and then--my daughter not at all. But you won't know IF one or both of your children would benefit from that for a while. Let the idea of pushing go for now, and when you've established real connection, you'll know. If you are comparing, worrying and doubting, you will not be in a position to really know when they might benefit from a push--because if it is needed/wanted by one of your children, it won't be in any context of your anxiety for them. And you won't be thinking about pushing "them." Don't lump your kids together--their needs will be very different from each other as you go down this path.
>
> You are probably thinking "push" in the conventional way that parents do. "Should I push them to practice the piano, or finish this class, etc." Those are examples of pushing a child because of the parents anxiety over who they will become. "If I don't push him to practice, he won't learn discipline." "If she doesn't finish this class, she'll never learn to keep her commitments, or she will always quit when things get hard." These examples all have to do with the future--not the here and now, and NOT what is important to the child. If a child knows they want to discontinue (see? you don't even need the word quit!) then that is fine. You can converse with them and get a sense of what is really going on, but you have to listen. These are things that create trust and connection--the listening and the allowing. Forcing and pushing put connection at risk at best, and destroy it at worst.
>
> Children need to have choice, even if they don't choose well. I know it's probably not pc to say that they don't choose well sometimes, but they don't--mine don't always choose well. But one of the questions I ask myself, if I'm feeling anxious, is do I want them practicing with these choices now, when I'm here to help, or when they go to college, or have a job and are out on their own. That always makes me feel better about allowing for more choices now. And they gain confidence every time they make choices.
>
> Joanna
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-
I like that a lot--connectable moments. What a nice way to think of
it! -=-

Still too much terminology.

Pay attention to kids. Be with them. Why make other terms for that?

http://sandradodd.com/howto

Sandra

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