Jenny C

Someone put a quote up on a facebook status:

Ester Hicks: "Parents can't choose the mates of their children or the behavior of their children. You actually can't choose anything for your children without disempowering them."

Perhaps my bias against Ester Hicks keeps me from agreeing with this, or is there something more to it?

I've been thinking about it either way. It's the last part I disagree with. Here's my half way thoughts on it...

I empower my kids all the time in as many things as I possibly can. The reality of living, as an adult with all the power, is that I can give as much power to my kids as I possibly can. However, as and adult, I make choices for my kids all the time, choices that impact them in a variety of ways. Is it really disempowering them when I make choices for them?

Parents choose where to live, what kinds of jobs they have, what phone company they will use, how to use money and how to divide it up. Does that really disempower kids? The way I see, it frees them from adult obligations and responsibilities. They can be free to explore the world that I've chosen to provide for them.

Isn't that what being a parent is all about after all? Raising kids and making choices for them until they are able to do it themselves? Earlier someone asked when we start giving kids choices. Since the people reading here have for the most part, chosen to unschool, part and parcel of that choice is giving kids more choices, not less, giving as many as possible for the individual child and what they are capable of.

Just like when my babies were infants, I put clothing on them and chose what those things were, I also chose to breastfeed, and I also chose to listen to their hunger cues, thereby giving them the choice of when to eat.

Giving my kids choices is a gift that I'm giving them. There have been occasions when my children haven't been happy with the choices they had, and no amount of my help could change those choices. That IS part of living in the world. It seems dishonest to tell kids otherwise, that they are disempowered when they don't have all choices in all the world to choose from. This goes back to something that was said in an unschooling discussion about kids being able to manifest anything they want in the world, or something like that... Sandra might remember...

Any thoughts? Am I missing something?

Bernadette Lynn

On 11 February 2010 22:45, Jenny C <jenstarc4@...> wrote:

> Someone put a quote up on a facebook status:
>
> Ester Hicks: "Parents can't choose the mates of their children or the
> behavior of their children. You actually can't choose anything for your
> children without disempowering them."
>
>
>
> I empower my kids all the time in as many things as I possibly can. The
> reality of living, as an adult with all the power, is that I can give as
> much power to my kids as I possibly can. However, as and adult, I make
> choices for my kids all the time, choices that impact them in a variety of
> ways. Is it really disempowering them when I make choices for them?
>
> ----
> Giving my kids choices is a gift that I'm giving them. There have been
> occasions when my children haven't been happy with the choices they had, and
> no amount of my help could change those choices. That IS part of living in
> the world. It seems dishonest to tell kids otherwise, that they are
> disempowered when they don't have all choices in all the world to choose
> from.
>


Babies are born without power. I think we can empower them to a lesser or
greater degree, but not disempower them.

I make choices for my husband sometimes. I buy clothes for him and choose
meals and decorate the house; if I ask him his opinion his standard answer
is 'choose for me'. I even made an offer on our new house before he'd seen
it, because he knew he would love it as I did. I don't think I'm
disempowering him, or that he's disempowering himself, we're just sharing
power. Likewise I don't think it disempowering my children if I make choices
for them in the same way, keeping their needs and tastes in mind.


Bernadette.
--
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/U15459


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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

This is a 36 year old woman?
Attacking a teenager online...sheesh....
She sounds very against everything, like conspiracy theory even.
Why would she be attacking Holly like that?
Is it to get to you Sandra?


Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/

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Sandra Dodd

-=She sounds very against everything, like conspiracy theory even.
Why would she be attacking Holly like that?
Is it to get to you Sandra?-=-

I think it's just because she lashes out and Holly got into her line
of sight by "defriending" her.

Holly said it sounded like conspiracy theory stuff, weeks ago, but
because the page had a link to my page and had the video of Pam and
some others from HSC, I figured eh... just let it go. Now it's
turning really nasty and personal toward other unschoolers, though,
I'm more disturbed.

And on the very same day (but unrelated, I think and I hope and I'm
pretty sure) someone on facebook who posts just as "unschooling" (not
plain "unschool") posted quoting this thing about how choosing for
your children disempowers them.

I think some people think that if they string 30 words together and
some of them are "freedom" and "empowerment" and "truth" that somehow
they've said something profound. There's a "one from column A, one
from column B..." joke about naming masters' theses or term papers or
some such. Maybe there's one of those that people use to find wise
quotes when they're channeling "wisdom."

I would love it if everyone who wrote about unschooling used real
names and told true stories and didn't mix it with anything involving
fantasy or wishful fluff.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Ester Hicks: "Parents can't choose the mates of their children or
the behavior of their children. You actually can't choose anything for
your children without disempowering them."-=-

Who is Ester Hicks again? Channels her imaginary friend? Did she have
children? Is she an unschooling parent?

-=-This goes back to something that was said in an unschooling
discussion about kids being able to manifest anything they want in the
world, or something like that... Sandra might remember...-=-

It was on familyRUNning, and it was about the parent herself, though
stated as a "we." The universe had promised us anything we [wanted?
wished for?]--anything we told the universe we wanted was ours. I've
wanted them all to STOP that for a long time, so must be somehow my
own "attraction" isn't operational. Too negative, I guess, thinking
"that's bullshit and they should stop." I must not have my priorities
straight, all this wishing and hoping that people would be
straightforward and clear.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny Cyphers

-=-Ester Hicks: "Parents can't choose the mates of their children or
the behavior of their children. You actually can't choose anything for
your children without disempowering them."-=-

***Who is Ester Hicks again? Channels her imaginary friend? Did she have
children? Is she an unschooling parent?***

Right!  She's not an unschooling parent at all.  Yet her quote is being spread around unschooling stats on facebook.  Not that unschoolers can't quote people that aren't unschoolers, it's just that I keep running into this nonsense in the unschooling circles and it's really bothering me!

So, to all that wish to embark on more unschooling goodness, this is what I'm going to do... I'm going to make a valiant effort to update my blog with some positive unschooling stuff and others can do the same!




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Robin Bentley

On Feb 11, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:

> -=-Ester Hicks: "Parents can't choose the mates of their children or
> the behavior of their children. You actually can't choose anything for
> your children without disempowering them."-=-
>
> Who is Ester Hicks again? Channels her imaginary friend? Did she have
> children? Is she an unschooling parent?

She's the former Amway distributor-turned-channeler of Abraham, of Law
of Attraction infamy. She apparently has one daughter from the
marriage she broke up to marry Jerry Hicks (both couples were Amway
distributors). I doubt she ever unschooled her child.

She has, however, written 3 children's books about discovering the Law
of Attraction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esther_Hicks
>
> -=-This goes back to something that was said in an unschooling
> discussion about kids being able to manifest anything they want in the
> world, or something like that... Sandra might remember...-=-
>
> It was on familyRUNning, and it was about the parent herself, though
> stated as a "we." The universe had promised us anything we [wanted?
> wished for?]--anything we told the universe we wanted was ours.
>
This particular kind of woo-woo stuff is on certain unschoolers'
blogs, too. What I want to know is how it helps them unschool? How
does it help their children?

> I've
> wanted them all to STOP that for a long time, so must be somehow my
> own "attraction" isn't operational. Too negative, I guess, thinking
> "that's bullshit and they should stop." I must not have my priorities
> straight, all this wishing and hoping that people would be
> straightforward and clear.

Yeah, Sandra! Look at what you're attracting. It's all your fault
these people are waxing poetic nonsense (or spewing nasty insults, as
the case may be)!

Sheesh....

Robin B.

Robin Bentley

I dunno. Maybe it's lack of protein and too much weed that causes this
kind of miserable ranting <g>.

I'd take a carnivorous, lucid, happy mom any day...

Robin B.

>
> Holly said it sounded like conspiracy theory stuff, weeks ago, but
> because the page had a link to my page and had the video of Pam and
> some others from HSC, I figured eh... just let it go. Now it's
> turning really nasty and personal toward other unschoolers, though,
> I'm more disturbed.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

Or religious angst. Who knows.
~Katherine


On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@...>wrote:

> I dunno. Maybe it's lack of protein and too much weed that causes this
> kind of miserable ranting <g>.
>
> I'd take a carnivorous, lucid, happy mom any day...
>
> Robin B.
>
> >
> > Holly said it sounded like conspiracy theory stuff, weeks ago, but
> > because the page had a link to my page and had the video of Pam and
> > some others from HSC, I figured eh... just let it go. Now it's
> > turning really nasty and personal toward other unschoolers, though,
> > I'm more disturbed.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joanna

> > -=-Ester Hicks: "Parents can't choose the mates of their children or
> > the behavior of their children. You actually can't choose anything for
> > your children without disempowering them."-=-
> >
I have reservations about this statement as well. It's not coming from as good a place as radical unschooling can when it's working well, because it's coming from a place of the parent having power, or the child having power. She seems to be advocating giving your child power and staying the heck out their way rather than working in partnership with your child.

While it may be a step in a better direction for parents who've never considered that their children could actually be making decisions about their own lives, it's a step more confusing for unschoolers.

Joanna

Joanna

> Babies are born without power. I think we can empower them to a lesser or
> greater degree, but not disempower them.

I'm not sure that I agree that babies are born without power, because the instincts we have built in give them power. When my babies would cry and my milk would let down, that's power. They can exert all kinds of power over the adults in their vicinity. They can get all kinds of adults all working really hard to do their bidding. :-)

And very shortly they are walking and running and get more vocal control and they increase in physical power. And I do think people can disempower them by parenting conventionally and "for their own good."

I think the distinction you make further on is that we can make decisions with another person truly in mind, and that isn't disempowering. When I make decisions based on what I think is best, regardless of what the other person may really prefer, that can be disempowering. Exactly--we can work in partnership rather than control, which is something that Esther Hicks and/or Abraham may not be familiar with for all the enlightenment. :-)

>
> I make choices for my husband sometimes. I buy clothes for him and choose
> meals and decorate the house; if I ask him his opinion his standard answer
> is 'choose for me'. I even made an offer on our new house before he'd seen
> it, because he knew he would love it as I did. I don't think I'm
> disempowering him, or that he's disempowering himself, we're just sharing
> power. Likewise I don't think it disempowering my children if I make choices
> for them in the same way, keeping their needs and tastes in mind.
>
>
> Bernadette.
> --
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/U15459
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-While it may be a step in a better direction for parents who've
never considered that their children could actually be making
decisions about their own lives, it's a step more confusing for
unschoolers.-=-

I think it's too much unnecessary stepping (hiking) when people first
go toward bullshit and then come here or where more responsible,
realistic unschoolers are and need to undo the damage they've done to
their own thinking and to their family's confidence in the changes
they're making.

Stepping toward unschooling in a deschooling way makes more sense than
limping back in confused disappointment from a fantasy world.

At the page where that statement was, on facebook, someone suggested
that if I couldn't agree with everything on that page I should just
quit that page, and maybe make my own page about unschooling.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joanna

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-While it may be a step in a better direction for parents who've
> never considered that their children could actually be making
> decisions about their own lives, it's a step more confusing for
> unschoolers.-=-
>
> I think it's too much unnecessary stepping (hiking) when people first
> go toward bullshit and then come here or where more responsible,
> realistic unschoolers are and need to undo the damage they've done to
> their own thinking and to their family's confidence in the changes
> they're making.

I agree. I meant that it might not be so bad for conventional parents--but not for unschoolers. Especially new unschoolers who are trying so hard to sort things out! It's stuff like this that can set someone back a lot in their understanding. It's not unschooling, but it has this pseudo air of being "unschooly."
>

> At the page where that statement was, on facebook, someone suggested
> that if I couldn't agree with everything on that page I should just
> quit that page, and maybe make my own page about unschooling.

Well, you might want to think about that, Sandra. :-)

Joanna

k

>>>At the page where that statement was, on facebook, someone suggested
that if I couldn't agree with everything on that page I should just
quit that page, and maybe make my own page about unschooling.<<<

That gave me a chuckle. People think sad ways of thinking (fantasy or not)
can work with unschooling but they don't because that's not the nature of
unschooling. It's not how people respond well. This is not about what you or
anybody else says about it. It's human nature. And some of us happen to know
that it's not nice to fool with human (or Mother) nature. ;)

I wouldn't buy a book about unschooling that suggests staying tuned to
somebody's disembodied channel.

~Katherine


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Sandra Dodd

-=-Perhaps my bias against Ester Hicks keeps me from agreeing with
this, or is there something more to it?-=-

Is it a bias, or is it knowledge?

If I have a bias against rubbing salt and dirt into wounds, am I biased?
If I have a bias against spanking, is that just a bad side effect of
having been spanked?

Bias is too light a word to use about belief and knowledge.

Speaking of spanking, that's something else people choose for their
children, or not. The rules of spanking when I was a kid was that if
I reached back to defend myself, I got an extra swat. It never
occurred to me to say "Stop it, you sadistic freak! And stop making
up arbitrary rules so you have things to spank us about." She might
have beaten me to death.

But that's not what I was going to say. <G> That must be part of my
bias...

Here's something that has nothing to do with me, about spanking in
Europe:
http://sandradodd.com/s/europe
(new page last night)

Sandra

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Jenny Cyphers

-=-Perhaps my bias against Ester Hicks keeps me from agreeing with
this, or is there something more to it?-=-

***Is it a bias, or is it knowledge?***


When I see anything with that name attached to it, I'm more inclined to immediately be more on the defensive, more inclined to dismiss whatever it is she's saying, because I've read enough of her "wisdom" (eh em), to know that most of it is bunk. That doesn't mean that she won't say something right every once in a while, so I was bouncing that idea to others here, because to me it seemed outrageous and not at all about unschooling, yet LOTS of unschoolers seem to think it was wonderful words of wisdom.

I like dissecting blanket statements like the one she made. It helps me understand better. So maybe it was knowledge, but I still feel that my bias is very much to dismiss anything that person says!

As Pam said in the FB forum that had this posted up... LoA folks will take words like that and bend it to fit their lives. Sorry, I'm not quoting that exactly.





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