Deschooling Support Group
otherstar
For anybody interested:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/deschoolingforever/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/deschoolingforever/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-For anybody interested:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/deschoolingforever/-=-
I didn't approve that post. Whenever anyone sends just a link, I send
it back and ask them why it's been recommended, and what it is.
This one's clearly another list. Who owns it? Why is it there? How
will it help in ways this one can't?
Does ANYone need to deschool forever? Isn't is a step toward a better
place?
so...
What's the deal? :-)
(Also, if you want the links to work on the intro page, they need a
bit of code and there are samples here:
http://sandradodd.com/hotlink )
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/deschoolingforever/-=-
I didn't approve that post. Whenever anyone sends just a link, I send
it back and ask them why it's been recommended, and what it is.
This one's clearly another list. Who owns it? Why is it there? How
will it help in ways this one can't?
Does ANYone need to deschool forever? Isn't is a step toward a better
place?
so...
What's the deal? :-)
(Also, if you want the links to work on the intro page, they need a
bit of code and there are samples here:
http://sandradodd.com/hotlink )
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
Not to dismiss the new message list, but deschooling should NOT take forever. Getting it faster is better for all involved if a family wants to unschool well.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
otherstar
The other day you said that if somebody wanted a list that was different, they could start their own and share the link here. So, that is what I did. I am the list owner. I have been on and off this list a couple times. Sometimes it gets too heavy for me and I have to unsubscribe for a while so I can play with my kids and think about what was said and try to internalize it.
I do not want to duplicate anything that you are doing. None of the lists that I am on are support groups. I felt the need for a support group and have seen other people express the need for a support group. I am muddling through the deschooling process and would like a support group where there is some hand holding. I have been deschooling for a couple years and still feel like there is a lot that I am missing. Sometimes, it feels like forever even though it has only been a couple of years. My oldest is only 8. I didn't start doing any serious research about how I was going to homeschool until my oldest was school age (2 years ago). Before that, I didn't see the need to think in terms of school at all. The only reason that I am thinking in terms of school now is because the state says that I have to.
Please accept my apologies if posting the link to my group was inappropriate.
Connie
From: Sandra Dodd
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Deschooling Support Group
-=-For anybody interested:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/deschoolingforever/-=-
I didn't approve that post. Whenever anyone sends just a link, I send
it back and ask them why it's been recommended, and what it is.
This one's clearly another list. Who owns it? Why is it there? How
will it help in ways this one can't?
Does ANYone need to deschool forever? Isn't is a step toward a better
place?
so...
What's the deal? :-)
(Also, if you want the links to work on the intro page, they need a
bit of code and there are samples here:
http://sandradodd.com/hotlink )
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I do not want to duplicate anything that you are doing. None of the lists that I am on are support groups. I felt the need for a support group and have seen other people express the need for a support group. I am muddling through the deschooling process and would like a support group where there is some hand holding. I have been deschooling for a couple years and still feel like there is a lot that I am missing. Sometimes, it feels like forever even though it has only been a couple of years. My oldest is only 8. I didn't start doing any serious research about how I was going to homeschool until my oldest was school age (2 years ago). Before that, I didn't see the need to think in terms of school at all. The only reason that I am thinking in terms of school now is because the state says that I have to.
Please accept my apologies if posting the link to my group was inappropriate.
Connie
From: Sandra Dodd
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Deschooling Support Group
-=-For anybody interested:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/deschoolingforever/-=-
I didn't approve that post. Whenever anyone sends just a link, I send
it back and ask them why it's been recommended, and what it is.
This one's clearly another list. Who owns it? Why is it there? How
will it help in ways this one can't?
Does ANYone need to deschool forever? Isn't is a step toward a better
place?
so...
What's the deal? :-)
(Also, if you want the links to work on the intro page, they need a
bit of code and there are samples here:
http://sandradodd.com/hotlink )
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2669 - Release Date: 02/05/10 01:35:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-
Please accept my apologies if posting the link to my group was
inappropriate.-=-
No, that's fine. The only inappropriate thing was not telling what it
was and why. Thanks for the clarifications.
I think it would be good to consider deschooling a temporary state,
too, but once people get on a list it can be hard to get them back
off. :-)
Unschooling basics was intended to be for beginners and feed back out
but there are people who've been there for years and never did go back
to a higher-level discussions. And there are lists run by people
other than those who created them, so your own intentions for the list
might need to be made clear, or others after you could do things you
didn't intend.
If "deschooling forever" will cause anyone to be stuck rather than
moving away from that to actually unschooling, it could be detrimental.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Please accept my apologies if posting the link to my group was
inappropriate.-=-
No, that's fine. The only inappropriate thing was not telling what it
was and why. Thanks for the clarifications.
I think it would be good to consider deschooling a temporary state,
too, but once people get on a list it can be hard to get them back
off. :-)
Unschooling basics was intended to be for beginners and feed back out
but there are people who've been there for years and never did go back
to a higher-level discussions. And there are lists run by people
other than those who created them, so your own intentions for the list
might need to be made clear, or others after you could do things you
didn't intend.
If "deschooling forever" will cause anyone to be stuck rather than
moving away from that to actually unschooling, it could be detrimental.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
otherstar
I agree that deschooling should not take forever. However, the truth is that whenever I think I have something untangled, something else creeps up. I would like a place where people tell me that it is okay to be afraid and give me a pat on the back from time to time. That is clearly outside the scope of this list. I can come here and find out all about the process of unschooling and deschooling. I need a place that will support me during that process.
I don't want to unschool well. I want to unschool better. I think I might be able to unschool better if I have a support group that I can go to when I am feeling a bit insecure.
Connie
From: Jenny Cyphers
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Deschooling Support Group
Not to dismiss the new message list, but deschooling should NOT take forever. Getting it faster is better for all involved if a family wants to unschool well.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2669 - Release Date: 02/05/10 01:35:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't want to unschool well. I want to unschool better. I think I might be able to unschool better if I have a support group that I can go to when I am feeling a bit insecure.
Connie
From: Jenny Cyphers
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Deschooling Support Group
Not to dismiss the new message list, but deschooling should NOT take forever. Getting it faster is better for all involved if a family wants to unschool well.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2669 - Release Date: 02/05/10 01:35:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I don't want to unschool well. I want to unschool better. I think I
might be able to unschool better if I have a support group that I can
go to when I am feeling a bit insecure. -=-
After two years, if you're still in "I think I might be" and not
feeling you want to unschool well, and if you're the list owner, will
the tone and voice of that list be strong enough to help anyone? If
you're creating a list so that you can get help, who will help those
who show up and are more insecure than you are?
I don't think security comes from more discussion. I think it comes
from changing what people are doing, saying and thinking at home with
their children.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
might be able to unschool better if I have a support group that I can
go to when I am feeling a bit insecure. -=-
After two years, if you're still in "I think I might be" and not
feeling you want to unschool well, and if you're the list owner, will
the tone and voice of that list be strong enough to help anyone? If
you're creating a list so that you can get help, who will help those
who show up and are more insecure than you are?
I don't think security comes from more discussion. I think it comes
from changing what people are doing, saying and thinking at home with
their children.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vidyut Kale
Hi Connie,
Just sharing an opinion. I understand your need completely for a place where
there is an occasional pat on the back and "you're okay". I think its vital.
However, I don't think its "healthy" for those pats on the backs to be
started by someone who isn't secure with her own unschooling situation,
because it is going to get too easy to ignore real challenges or get
judgmental about those who stress the need to fight them. In other words,
going the opposite end of this list is likely not going to help.
I would find such a space more useful for my support and growth if anchored
by an extremely sensitive person, who is also an experienced unschooler.
There are a few of those too - who will give rock solid advice in a way that
is "idiot proof" and "newbie friendly". Perhaps, rather than running off on
a tangent and starting something without the core experience, it might help
if a bunch of us newbies can invite experienced unschoolers whom we have
personally found sensitive and easy to take difficult feedback from to guide
us.
As for pat on back, I don't think many of us are good at doing that to each
other without demolishing our objectives. If we were, we wouldn't need such
a group, because we'd be able to do it anywhere. I'd rather get a couple of
slaps and hide in a hole to cope before coming back than feel good but risk
getting derailed.
Vidyut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Just sharing an opinion. I understand your need completely for a place where
there is an occasional pat on the back and "you're okay". I think its vital.
However, I don't think its "healthy" for those pats on the backs to be
started by someone who isn't secure with her own unschooling situation,
because it is going to get too easy to ignore real challenges or get
judgmental about those who stress the need to fight them. In other words,
going the opposite end of this list is likely not going to help.
I would find such a space more useful for my support and growth if anchored
by an extremely sensitive person, who is also an experienced unschooler.
There are a few of those too - who will give rock solid advice in a way that
is "idiot proof" and "newbie friendly". Perhaps, rather than running off on
a tangent and starting something without the core experience, it might help
if a bunch of us newbies can invite experienced unschoolers whom we have
personally found sensitive and easy to take difficult feedback from to guide
us.
As for pat on back, I don't think many of us are good at doing that to each
other without demolishing our objectives. If we were, we wouldn't need such
a group, because we'd be able to do it anywhere. I'd rather get a couple of
slaps and hide in a hole to cope before coming back than feel good but risk
getting derailed.
Vidyut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
I woke up thinking about the "I don't want to be a good unschooler, I
want to be a better unschooler" statement. If the writer has pre-
school children, then I think people with pre-school-aged children
shouldn't be writing about unschooling at all. Maybe just read. Ask
questions, but don't be advising anyone about anything that involves
unschooling.
If the person who wrote "I don't want to be a good unschooler" has
school-aged children, then it's a deeply disturbing idea that the
mother wouldn't want to commit to doing a good job.
In activity entirely unrelated to unschooling, I came across something
I wrote two years ago, in an SCA context (medieval studies group):
"I would rather people do what's good and right than to settle for the
minimum of what they have to do. Some haven't liked my expectations,
and some have left."
By "left" I was referring to someone who had asked me to mentor him or
her, and then opted back out when I actually had expectations of them.
In the U.S., the first assumption is that every child will go to
school. School will be assumed to have a curriculum and measurements.
In each state, there has come some way to opt out of that school
attendance, either by homeschooling or by creating a private school
registration situation. In every case they either expect or require
that the curriculum and measurements will be continued, in another
form, elsewhere. In no state or nation where there is a mandatory
school attendance law is ANYone (administration, judicial officers)
accepting of the idea of a family doing nothing.
If a family defines unschooling as doing nothing, that is illegal to
pursue. If a family wants to "unschool better" but not to do it well,
that is only barely beginning to be acceptable is the child is younger
than the age at which education become mandatory.
For unschooling to be rich and full enough to be comparable to the
learning that's presented in a curriculum, it needs to be done well.
It needs to be rich and full.
If a parent admits that it's baffling, and admits she does not want to
do it well, then she should probably put her children in school.
Unschooling isn't easy. She should NOT be patted on the back or have
her hand held about maintaining a stance in which she doesn't intend
to go so far as to really understand it and solidly commit to doing it
well. And she should not be helping others to settle for better
instead of great.
I think when people want hand holding and back patting it can be about
her wanting it to be about her, rather than about her children. Any
mother who can move past her own neediness and just DO what her
children need done to be happy and to be playing and learning in peace
will, right then, be less needy. She won't need other people to tell
her she's doing better because she will know it and feel it and her
children will let her know it by their peace and smiles and laughter
and hugs.
Sandra
want to be a better unschooler" statement. If the writer has pre-
school children, then I think people with pre-school-aged children
shouldn't be writing about unschooling at all. Maybe just read. Ask
questions, but don't be advising anyone about anything that involves
unschooling.
If the person who wrote "I don't want to be a good unschooler" has
school-aged children, then it's a deeply disturbing idea that the
mother wouldn't want to commit to doing a good job.
In activity entirely unrelated to unschooling, I came across something
I wrote two years ago, in an SCA context (medieval studies group):
"I would rather people do what's good and right than to settle for the
minimum of what they have to do. Some haven't liked my expectations,
and some have left."
By "left" I was referring to someone who had asked me to mentor him or
her, and then opted back out when I actually had expectations of them.
In the U.S., the first assumption is that every child will go to
school. School will be assumed to have a curriculum and measurements.
In each state, there has come some way to opt out of that school
attendance, either by homeschooling or by creating a private school
registration situation. In every case they either expect or require
that the curriculum and measurements will be continued, in another
form, elsewhere. In no state or nation where there is a mandatory
school attendance law is ANYone (administration, judicial officers)
accepting of the idea of a family doing nothing.
If a family defines unschooling as doing nothing, that is illegal to
pursue. If a family wants to "unschool better" but not to do it well,
that is only barely beginning to be acceptable is the child is younger
than the age at which education become mandatory.
For unschooling to be rich and full enough to be comparable to the
learning that's presented in a curriculum, it needs to be done well.
It needs to be rich and full.
If a parent admits that it's baffling, and admits she does not want to
do it well, then she should probably put her children in school.
Unschooling isn't easy. She should NOT be patted on the back or have
her hand held about maintaining a stance in which she doesn't intend
to go so far as to really understand it and solidly commit to doing it
well. And she should not be helping others to settle for better
instead of great.
I think when people want hand holding and back patting it can be about
her wanting it to be about her, rather than about her children. Any
mother who can move past her own neediness and just DO what her
children need done to be happy and to be playing and learning in peace
will, right then, be less needy. She won't need other people to tell
her she's doing better because she will know it and feel it and her
children will let her know it by their peace and smiles and laughter
and hugs.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
-=-I would find such a space more useful for my support and growth if
anchored
by an extremely sensitive person, who is also an experienced unschooler.
There are a few of those too - who will give rock solid advice in a
way that
is "idiot proof" and "newbie friendly". Perhaps, rather than running
off on
a tangent and starting something without the core experience, it might
help
if a bunch of us newbies can invite experienced unschoolers whom we have
personally found sensitive and easy to take difficult feedback from to
guide
us.-=-
The Unschooling Basics list was started as a newbie friendly list for
people who felt intimidated and "unsupported" by the tone of this list
and what was once a very busy UnschoolingDiscussion list. And so
Unschooling Basics, which is still there, already is what is described
above. And the deal was that I wouldn't join it.
The problem was that those who DID start it are no longer keeping it
going. It was passed to others who didn't necessarily understand the
original intention. And even early on, I heard, those who started the
list had sometimes a harsh response to silly irresponsible ideas, and
that surprised people who thought it should be hand-holding. They
discovered nearly immediately that the hand-holding is a waste of time
and people stay on bad trails instead of getting onto good ones. And
the stronger responses were coming from mothers with less experience.
Same emotional experience, less practical benefit.
It was also supposed to have been a beginning list, from which people
would be sent to other lists as they became "intermediate" or
established unschoolers. That didn't actually happen. People stayed
there. And so it was not beginners, it was people who had been there
and were used to it.
I suspect the deschooling discussion could go the same way. Those who
are good at explaining will end up staying there, because if they
leave it will disintigrate to being advisement by people who have very
little experience of confidence.
I'm not guessing about these possibilities. I've seen them. You
could go and read archives of several lists and see this dynamic play
out over and over again.
Those who want to learn to be confident unschoolers should be around
confident unschoolers.
Those who want encouragement to move very slowly toward unschooling
eventually should think of their children more and themselves less.
http://sandradodd.com/doit
Your children get older every moment of every day and you don't have
time to mosey on over to unschooling maybe someday. It's not
practical or legal or moral to think about maybe doing a little better
over the course of years.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
anchored
by an extremely sensitive person, who is also an experienced unschooler.
There are a few of those too - who will give rock solid advice in a
way that
is "idiot proof" and "newbie friendly". Perhaps, rather than running
off on
a tangent and starting something without the core experience, it might
help
if a bunch of us newbies can invite experienced unschoolers whom we have
personally found sensitive and easy to take difficult feedback from to
guide
us.-=-
The Unschooling Basics list was started as a newbie friendly list for
people who felt intimidated and "unsupported" by the tone of this list
and what was once a very busy UnschoolingDiscussion list. And so
Unschooling Basics, which is still there, already is what is described
above. And the deal was that I wouldn't join it.
The problem was that those who DID start it are no longer keeping it
going. It was passed to others who didn't necessarily understand the
original intention. And even early on, I heard, those who started the
list had sometimes a harsh response to silly irresponsible ideas, and
that surprised people who thought it should be hand-holding. They
discovered nearly immediately that the hand-holding is a waste of time
and people stay on bad trails instead of getting onto good ones. And
the stronger responses were coming from mothers with less experience.
Same emotional experience, less practical benefit.
It was also supposed to have been a beginning list, from which people
would be sent to other lists as they became "intermediate" or
established unschoolers. That didn't actually happen. People stayed
there. And so it was not beginners, it was people who had been there
and were used to it.
I suspect the deschooling discussion could go the same way. Those who
are good at explaining will end up staying there, because if they
leave it will disintigrate to being advisement by people who have very
little experience of confidence.
I'm not guessing about these possibilities. I've seen them. You
could go and read archives of several lists and see this dynamic play
out over and over again.
Those who want to learn to be confident unschoolers should be around
confident unschoolers.
Those who want encouragement to move very slowly toward unschooling
eventually should think of their children more and themselves less.
http://sandradodd.com/doit
Your children get older every moment of every day and you don't have
time to mosey on over to unschooling maybe someday. It's not
practical or legal or moral to think about maybe doing a little better
over the course of years.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
***The Unschooling Basics list was started as a newbie friendly list for
people who felt intimidated and "unsupported" by the tone of this list
and what was once a very busy UnschoolingDiscussion list.***
Unschoolingbasics started because of one of Helen Hegener's lists (in those days when she was trying to make everyone happy with a "just right support" list, and most of those fizzled out) I think it was Unschooling-101. It had been advertised as a discussion list but turned into a whine fest. The owners of unschoolingbasics wanted a discussion list where they could write about radical unschooling without people running to Helen and whimpering about how mean radical unschoolers were.
I wasn't privy to the details worked out about who would or wouldn't be on the unschoolingbasics list - though I know Helen was banned<g> The ideas of a basics list was generally welcomed as a place to send the same old newbie questions. It didn't start because people were unhappy with AlwaysLearning or UnschoolingDiscussion, it started because the HEM lists were so flakey. And considering who the list owners are at unschoolingbasics it should not be mistaken for a hand holding, pat you on the back beginners list. Though some new people are probably still surprised. <g>
It's a busy list almost six years old and has over 2500 people. A few dedicated posters there like Joyce, Meredith, Schuyler are still offering steadfast advice. Though it's true that many new people who don't really understand the philosophy are posting advice frequently and at times it can be hard to see through the murk.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
people who felt intimidated and "unsupported" by the tone of this list
and what was once a very busy UnschoolingDiscussion list.***
Unschoolingbasics started because of one of Helen Hegener's lists (in those days when she was trying to make everyone happy with a "just right support" list, and most of those fizzled out) I think it was Unschooling-101. It had been advertised as a discussion list but turned into a whine fest. The owners of unschoolingbasics wanted a discussion list where they could write about radical unschooling without people running to Helen and whimpering about how mean radical unschoolers were.
I wasn't privy to the details worked out about who would or wouldn't be on the unschoolingbasics list - though I know Helen was banned<g> The ideas of a basics list was generally welcomed as a place to send the same old newbie questions. It didn't start because people were unhappy with AlwaysLearning or UnschoolingDiscussion, it started because the HEM lists were so flakey. And considering who the list owners are at unschoolingbasics it should not be mistaken for a hand holding, pat you on the back beginners list. Though some new people are probably still surprised. <g>
It's a busy list almost six years old and has over 2500 people. A few dedicated posters there like Joyce, Meredith, Schuyler are still offering steadfast advice. Though it's true that many new people who don't really understand the philosophy are posting advice frequently and at times it can be hard to see through the murk.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- It didn't start because people were unhappy with AlwaysLearning or
UnschoolingDiscussion, it started because the HEM lists were so
flakey. -=-
Maybe some people went there from the HEM lists, but by that time I
think Joyce already owned UnschoolingDiscussion. I had (might have
still had, but for the death of the older iMac) the correspondence
with Ren and Kelly. They would promise people I wouldn't be on there,
and would take the newcomers who were complaining on
UnschoolingDiscussion and my list, and I would send them newcomers,
and they would send me seasoned people. I still haven't been on a
list with Meredith, though I see her at RUN, so the plan I was in on
about that list didn't unfold as intended.
The point I'm trying to make is that the original intentions of lists
don't always last as long as the lists last. This one is an
exception. This one was started because of people on
UnschoolingDotcom list (later or maybe already by then re-named
UnschoolingDiscussion) targetting me for bullshit and focus. I left
that list and started one intended from the beginning to be serious
discussion with people who were willing to discuss things seriously
with me. <g>
I VERY much like it when a list or webpage or blog has the owners
name. I don't like it when I have to wonder, or ask. I don't like it
when someone uses a name like "Unschooling" on facebook or somewhere,
and it's way unclear who it is, but very clear that it is not the
voice of unschooling itself.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
UnschoolingDiscussion, it started because the HEM lists were so
flakey. -=-
Maybe some people went there from the HEM lists, but by that time I
think Joyce already owned UnschoolingDiscussion. I had (might have
still had, but for the death of the older iMac) the correspondence
with Ren and Kelly. They would promise people I wouldn't be on there,
and would take the newcomers who were complaining on
UnschoolingDiscussion and my list, and I would send them newcomers,
and they would send me seasoned people. I still haven't been on a
list with Meredith, though I see her at RUN, so the plan I was in on
about that list didn't unfold as intended.
The point I'm trying to make is that the original intentions of lists
don't always last as long as the lists last. This one is an
exception. This one was started because of people on
UnschoolingDotcom list (later or maybe already by then re-named
UnschoolingDiscussion) targetting me for bullshit and focus. I left
that list and started one intended from the beginning to be serious
discussion with people who were willing to discuss things seriously
with me. <g>
I VERY much like it when a list or webpage or blog has the owners
name. I don't like it when I have to wonder, or ask. I don't like it
when someone uses a name like "Unschooling" on facebook or somewhere,
and it's way unclear who it is, but very clear that it is not the
voice of unschooling itself.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=The point I'm trying to make is that the original intentions of lists
don't always last as long as the lists last. This one is an
exception. This one was started because of people on
UnschoolingDotcom list (later or maybe already by then re-named
UnschoolingDiscussion) targetting me for bullshit and focus. I left
that list and started one intended from the beginning to be serious
discussion with people who were willing to discuss things seriously
with me. <g>-=-
This one is an exception because I've stayed and continued to do the
work to keep it on topic.
I meant to say that.
If someone invites people over for a party and then doesn't stay and
host that party, it sometimes gets out of control, or fizzles out.
I think it must seem simple to host a list. There's a lot of evidence
out there that it's not at all. It's simple to set up an unmoderated
list and let it go to hell and then blame other people for it, just as
it's easy to invite people to a party and let it get out of hand and
not take an responsibility for that.
I'm not interested in investing my time or reputation in any such
activities, though.
Those without a lot of time or reputation probably shouldn't even try
to host lists.
Pam Sorooshian, my favorite unschooler of all time, has started lists
and sites that she was too busy to maintain. It's harder than it
looks or sounds.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
don't always last as long as the lists last. This one is an
exception. This one was started because of people on
UnschoolingDotcom list (later or maybe already by then re-named
UnschoolingDiscussion) targetting me for bullshit and focus. I left
that list and started one intended from the beginning to be serious
discussion with people who were willing to discuss things seriously
with me. <g>-=-
This one is an exception because I've stayed and continued to do the
work to keep it on topic.
I meant to say that.
If someone invites people over for a party and then doesn't stay and
host that party, it sometimes gets out of control, or fizzles out.
I think it must seem simple to host a list. There's a lot of evidence
out there that it's not at all. It's simple to set up an unmoderated
list and let it go to hell and then blame other people for it, just as
it's easy to invite people to a party and let it get out of hand and
not take an responsibility for that.
I'm not interested in investing my time or reputation in any such
activities, though.
Those without a lot of time or reputation probably shouldn't even try
to host lists.
Pam Sorooshian, my favorite unschooler of all time, has started lists
and sites that she was too busy to maintain. It's harder than it
looks or sounds.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 2/6/2010 11:55 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
Remember when Sandra posted about how to keep a good park day going? A
list is like that, too. You have to show up, a lot, even when you don't
really feel like it. You have to keep it up through down times. It needs
a lot of loving attention and nurturing. AND - most importantly, it
needs a clear focus and someone who keeps that focus and doesn't let
other people take over for their own purposes.
I get how it works, now. But I've underestimated how much time and
mental energy it would take, several times over.
-pam
> Pam Sorooshian, my favorite unschooler of all time, has started listsYep.
> and sites that she was too busy to maintain. It's harder than it
> looks or sounds.
>
Remember when Sandra posted about how to keep a good park day going? A
list is like that, too. You have to show up, a lot, even when you don't
really feel like it. You have to keep it up through down times. It needs
a lot of loving attention and nurturing. AND - most importantly, it
needs a clear focus and someone who keeps that focus and doesn't let
other people take over for their own purposes.
I get how it works, now. But I've underestimated how much time and
mental energy it would take, several times over.
-pam
Jenny Cyphers
***This one was started because of people on
UnschoolingDotcom list (later or maybe already by then re-named
UnschoolingDiscussi on) targetting me for bullshit and focus. I left
that list and started one intended from the beginning to be serious
discussion with people who were willing to discuss things seriously
with me. <g>***
I used to be a member of the unschoolingdotcom list. I didn't post there, but maintained my membership to peek in and see what was going on there. It turned out, not so much great stuff was there. I cared because when you do a google search on unschooling, it is the number one site that comes up and that message board is linked there. I think that people probably go there first and get some crazy notions of unschooling explained poorly by people who really don't like Sandra, so never send links to Sandra's webpage and anyone who does gets "booed".
I've since unsubbed so I have no idea what gets said there, but it used to be a couple of years ago, REALLY bad advice from people who didn't know what they were talking about, who wanted unschooling to mean anything that worked for each unique family. GAG! People sent curriculum links for advice on how to unschool math and other BS of that nature. It's BAD! People who do finally find there way onto better lists come with these ideas in their heads and then get all upset when someone else tells them "wrong way to unschool, don't do that"
When the unschooling dot come boards disappeared, the original and awesome ones, I went straight over to unschooling dot info, which I'm very happy that Sandra is working on rebuilding. It didn't take me long to find this list and from there the unschooling basics and the always unschooled. But this list is my favorite! Second, I guess would be the unschooling basics, which I read at, but never post, it's a very active list.
The radical unschooling network seems like a happy place for many, yet again, you get a lot of folks up in arms all defensive if you post anything that doesn't FEEL good. I DO post there sometimes because that, I feel, is an important place to keep going long term, so I invest time there.
It concerns me a bit that the wiki site isn't at all what I'd like it to be, but I have no idea how to diplomatically change it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
UnschoolingDotcom list (later or maybe already by then re-named
UnschoolingDiscussi on) targetting me for bullshit and focus. I left
that list and started one intended from the beginning to be serious
discussion with people who were willing to discuss things seriously
with me. <g>***
I used to be a member of the unschoolingdotcom list. I didn't post there, but maintained my membership to peek in and see what was going on there. It turned out, not so much great stuff was there. I cared because when you do a google search on unschooling, it is the number one site that comes up and that message board is linked there. I think that people probably go there first and get some crazy notions of unschooling explained poorly by people who really don't like Sandra, so never send links to Sandra's webpage and anyone who does gets "booed".
I've since unsubbed so I have no idea what gets said there, but it used to be a couple of years ago, REALLY bad advice from people who didn't know what they were talking about, who wanted unschooling to mean anything that worked for each unique family. GAG! People sent curriculum links for advice on how to unschool math and other BS of that nature. It's BAD! People who do finally find there way onto better lists come with these ideas in their heads and then get all upset when someone else tells them "wrong way to unschool, don't do that"
When the unschooling dot come boards disappeared, the original and awesome ones, I went straight over to unschooling dot info, which I'm very happy that Sandra is working on rebuilding. It didn't take me long to find this list and from there the unschooling basics and the always unschooled. But this list is my favorite! Second, I guess would be the unschooling basics, which I read at, but never post, it's a very active list.
The radical unschooling network seems like a happy place for many, yet again, you get a lot of folks up in arms all defensive if you post anything that doesn't FEEL good. I DO post there sometimes because that, I feel, is an important place to keep going long term, so I invest time there.
It concerns me a bit that the wiki site isn't at all what I'd like it to be, but I have no idea how to diplomatically change it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], Jenny Cyphers <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
>This is the "Unschooling" page on Wikipedia you're talking about? If you don't mind me asking, how isn't it all you'd like it to be?
>
> It concerns me a bit that the wiki site isn't at all what I'd like it to be, but I have no idea how to diplomatically change it.
>
>
>
Sandra Dodd
-=->
you don't mind me asking, how isn't it all you'd like it to be?-=-
The Radical Unschooling site was created to promote law of attraction
stuff, though I don't think it says so. If you feel like tweaking
wikis, Bob, maybe add some links to that one. ;-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> It concerns me a bit that the wiki site isn't at all what I'd likeit to be, but I have no idea how to diplomatically change it.
>This is the "Unschooling" page on Wikipedia you're talking about? If
>
>
you don't mind me asking, how isn't it all you'd like it to be?-=-
The Radical Unschooling site was created to promote law of attraction
stuff, though I don't think it says so. If you feel like tweaking
wikis, Bob, maybe add some links to that one. ;-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***The Radical Unschooling site was created to promote law of attraction
stuff, though I don't think it says so. If you feel like tweaking
wikis, Bob, maybe add some links to that one. ;-)***
Yes that's the one, the Radical Unschooling wiki site, and yes, it's because of the connection to and promotion of law of attraction.
It's hard enough to understand and get unschooling, adding something else to it, makes it even more difficult.
Part of why I think this, is because of my parents. My parents can get unschooling to a certain degree. They understand being nicer to kids, spending more time than less with kids, and helping kids get what they want. They can also get that humans are born learning and learn best while happy. This is the heart of unschooling. If they were to do a search on unschooling and see the stuff about law of attraction they'd probably call me concerned that I was getting into this crazy 21st century hippy dippy nonsense. I'd have to do some damage control in that regard.
I'm not repsonsible for what my parents believe or conclude, but they are pretty typical in many ways in how they believe and what they believe. I don't like unschooling being represented in correlation with something it is NOT. Unschooling is NOT law of attraction and law of attraction is NOT unschooling.
This is my opinion and I feel pretty strongly about it! Even, dare I say, radically so!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
stuff, though I don't think it says so. If you feel like tweaking
wikis, Bob, maybe add some links to that one. ;-)***
Yes that's the one, the Radical Unschooling wiki site, and yes, it's because of the connection to and promotion of law of attraction.
It's hard enough to understand and get unschooling, adding something else to it, makes it even more difficult.
Part of why I think this, is because of my parents. My parents can get unschooling to a certain degree. They understand being nicer to kids, spending more time than less with kids, and helping kids get what they want. They can also get that humans are born learning and learn best while happy. This is the heart of unschooling. If they were to do a search on unschooling and see the stuff about law of attraction they'd probably call me concerned that I was getting into this crazy 21st century hippy dippy nonsense. I'd have to do some damage control in that regard.
I'm not repsonsible for what my parents believe or conclude, but they are pretty typical in many ways in how they believe and what they believe. I don't like unschooling being represented in correlation with something it is NOT. Unschooling is NOT law of attraction and law of attraction is NOT unschooling.
This is my opinion and I feel pretty strongly about it! Even, dare I say, radically so!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
Oh and the NVC stuff and other "complimentary" theories. I kind of wish that whole section could be axed completely.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- I don't like unschooling being represented in correlation with
something it is NOT. Unschooling is NOT law of attraction and law of
attraction is NOT unschooling.
-=-This is my opinion and I feel pretty strongly about it! Even, dare
I say, radically so!-=-
I agree. I don't own "radical unschooling." The reason that's the
name of my page is that when I went to make an expage.com page a long
time ago, when web pages has a character limit, "unschooling" was
already taken. <g>
Still, it seems that for someone to name a list that is dishonest and
purposely misleading. "LOA-unschoolers" would be clear and shorter.
But then I value clarity and honesty.
When I've done things over the years, whether write or speak or
maintain a website or list, it was for other people, not for me. Part
of the reason I'm known by name is that I've used my own real name
rather than a nickname. Part of the reason is integrity. When people
meet my kids they don't go home and say "Oh no; not a good
situation." We did hear that about some of the TCS people's kids,
many years back, that their theories (and practice of not telling
specific stories) were not "producing results."
What kind of results, though? What I've wanted for my kids was that
they avoid the damage school does, and that they stay curious and
happy--that attachment parenting could extend from those toddler days
when they only walk away from the mom by their own choice, and are
allowed to come back when they want to (to her lap at a park, or to
the bed at night), to the days that young adults can drive away by
their own choice when they want to, and come back if they need to.
This worked out well for our family. It's working out well still.
If anytime over the past fifteen or more years since Kirby started
unschooling I had been thought to have been dishonest or a fraud or
incompetent, no doubt you would have heard about that. My kids have
been out there, at park days here and visiting other places, and
sometimes at conferences. Lots of families have visited here. We've
visited (in subgroups and a time or three as a whole family) with
others. We haven't been self-promoting about our family, but neither
have we been secretive.
What could I have wanted to "attract" or "manifest" other than what we
could have and do by living warmly and generously with each other? We
don't need to "attract" learning; it happens inside of us, not
outside. I don't need to "manifest" unschooling. It's a process and
a way of living. I was sharing unschooling and peaceful parenting
because it seemed important to share, and because I felt indebted to
"the community" of volunteer mothers who had helped me through La
Leche League and birthing advice and assistance. I felt guilty for
having talked my cousin out of homeschooling, in the 1970's, and
wanted to do some penance to make up for that.
What I see about "the law of attraction" is a scam intended to make a
few people rich. Amway fizzled, but the new scamway is currently
making them money. It won't forever.
Someone in an unschooling discussion last year wrote something like
"The universe has promised us that we can have whatever we wish for."
I don't remember anyone saying "WHAT!? That's nonsense!" They were
"supportive." (Or ignored it maybe; I forget.)
The universe hasn't promised anyone anything at all. Gravity, maybe.
Atmosphere and temperature are variables on this planet. Storms,
volcanos and earthquakes aren't caused by nor prevented by anyone's
LoA wishboards or stated intentions.
Human nature has some realities. Like attracts like. Druggies hang
out with druggies. Kind people who reject mean friends and avoid mean
relatives can eventually find themselves surrounded by many more kind
people than mean. Honest people who don't accept or condone
dishonesty can count on their friends, because they've been
discriminating about who they will call "friend." Bullshit attracts
bullshit, or at least attracts people who can't tell bullshit from
truth.
If there are tools people can learn from ANY book, pamphlet, movie,
organization, religious group, that's fine. But if they start trying
to apply those things to the manipulation of others then a morality
issue comes along.
Discussions of integrity and morality are generally way beyond
discussions of what will help unschoolers with their eight year old
boys today, quickly and easily. In the long run, though, good
unschooling and generously helping others can lead to integrity and
morality, bit by bit.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
something it is NOT. Unschooling is NOT law of attraction and law of
attraction is NOT unschooling.
-=-This is my opinion and I feel pretty strongly about it! Even, dare
I say, radically so!-=-
I agree. I don't own "radical unschooling." The reason that's the
name of my page is that when I went to make an expage.com page a long
time ago, when web pages has a character limit, "unschooling" was
already taken. <g>
Still, it seems that for someone to name a list that is dishonest and
purposely misleading. "LOA-unschoolers" would be clear and shorter.
But then I value clarity and honesty.
When I've done things over the years, whether write or speak or
maintain a website or list, it was for other people, not for me. Part
of the reason I'm known by name is that I've used my own real name
rather than a nickname. Part of the reason is integrity. When people
meet my kids they don't go home and say "Oh no; not a good
situation." We did hear that about some of the TCS people's kids,
many years back, that their theories (and practice of not telling
specific stories) were not "producing results."
What kind of results, though? What I've wanted for my kids was that
they avoid the damage school does, and that they stay curious and
happy--that attachment parenting could extend from those toddler days
when they only walk away from the mom by their own choice, and are
allowed to come back when they want to (to her lap at a park, or to
the bed at night), to the days that young adults can drive away by
their own choice when they want to, and come back if they need to.
This worked out well for our family. It's working out well still.
If anytime over the past fifteen or more years since Kirby started
unschooling I had been thought to have been dishonest or a fraud or
incompetent, no doubt you would have heard about that. My kids have
been out there, at park days here and visiting other places, and
sometimes at conferences. Lots of families have visited here. We've
visited (in subgroups and a time or three as a whole family) with
others. We haven't been self-promoting about our family, but neither
have we been secretive.
What could I have wanted to "attract" or "manifest" other than what we
could have and do by living warmly and generously with each other? We
don't need to "attract" learning; it happens inside of us, not
outside. I don't need to "manifest" unschooling. It's a process and
a way of living. I was sharing unschooling and peaceful parenting
because it seemed important to share, and because I felt indebted to
"the community" of volunteer mothers who had helped me through La
Leche League and birthing advice and assistance. I felt guilty for
having talked my cousin out of homeschooling, in the 1970's, and
wanted to do some penance to make up for that.
What I see about "the law of attraction" is a scam intended to make a
few people rich. Amway fizzled, but the new scamway is currently
making them money. It won't forever.
Someone in an unschooling discussion last year wrote something like
"The universe has promised us that we can have whatever we wish for."
I don't remember anyone saying "WHAT!? That's nonsense!" They were
"supportive." (Or ignored it maybe; I forget.)
The universe hasn't promised anyone anything at all. Gravity, maybe.
Atmosphere and temperature are variables on this planet. Storms,
volcanos and earthquakes aren't caused by nor prevented by anyone's
LoA wishboards or stated intentions.
Human nature has some realities. Like attracts like. Druggies hang
out with druggies. Kind people who reject mean friends and avoid mean
relatives can eventually find themselves surrounded by many more kind
people than mean. Honest people who don't accept or condone
dishonesty can count on their friends, because they've been
discriminating about who they will call "friend." Bullshit attracts
bullshit, or at least attracts people who can't tell bullshit from
truth.
If there are tools people can learn from ANY book, pamphlet, movie,
organization, religious group, that's fine. But if they start trying
to apply those things to the manipulation of others then a morality
issue comes along.
Discussions of integrity and morality are generally way beyond
discussions of what will help unschoolers with their eight year old
boys today, quickly and easily. In the long run, though, good
unschooling and generously helping others can lead to integrity and
morality, bit by bit.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Oh and the NVC stuff and other "complimentary" theories. I kind of
wish that whole section could be axed completely.-=-
Whole section of... my site?
Whole section of "the unschooling community"?
Whole section of the universe?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wish that whole section could be axed completely.-=-
Whole section of... my site?
Whole section of "the unschooling community"?
Whole section of the universe?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
If you go to wikipedia and read the "Unschooling" entry - it is pretty
well written. There are a few things I would quibble with (child-led is
used in a place I'd prefer child-centered), but, overall, I think it
gives a person a good sense of unschooling. In the history section of
the article it says this:
New Mexico homeschooling parent, Sandra Dodd proposed the term "Radical
Unschooling" <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_Unschooling> to
emphasize the complete rejection of any distinction between educational
and non-educational activities.^[7]
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling#cite_note-6>
But if you click on that link and go to the "Radical Unschooling" wiki
article - it has a brief description of the difference between
unschooling versus radical unschooling and then talks about
complementary philosophies such as nonviolent communication,
unconditional parenting (alfie kohn), and continuum concept.
Then it goes immediately into a confusing section on "misconceptions."
The way it is linked makes it look like Sandra is the one behind that
radical unschooling article.
-pam
well written. There are a few things I would quibble with (child-led is
used in a place I'd prefer child-centered), but, overall, I think it
gives a person a good sense of unschooling. In the history section of
the article it says this:
New Mexico homeschooling parent, Sandra Dodd proposed the term "Radical
Unschooling" <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_Unschooling> to
emphasize the complete rejection of any distinction between educational
and non-educational activities.^[7]
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling#cite_note-6>
But if you click on that link and go to the "Radical Unschooling" wiki
article - it has a brief description of the difference between
unschooling versus radical unschooling and then talks about
complementary philosophies such as nonviolent communication,
unconditional parenting (alfie kohn), and continuum concept.
Then it goes immediately into a confusing section on "misconceptions."
The way it is linked makes it look like Sandra is the one behind that
radical unschooling article.
-pam
On 2/7/2010 9:29 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> -=-Oh and the NVC stuff and other "complimentary" theories. I kind of
> wish that whole section could be axed completely.-=-
>
> Whole section of... my site?
> Whole section of "the unschooling community"?
> Whole section of the universe?
>
Sandra Dodd
On 2/7/2010 9:29 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
-=--=-The way it is linked makes it look like Sandra is the one behind
that
radical unschooling article.--=-
Sheesh...
I can't go and write about myself. That's tacky in the extreme.
Someone else would have to do that. At least it should have links to
Joyce's site and mine, and maybe a note that says add-ons and
complementary theories are not in themselves unschooling.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> -=-Oh and the NVC stuff and other "complimentary" theories. I kind ofOh. Of wikipedia?
> wish that whole section could be axed completely.-=-
>-=-
-=--=-The way it is linked makes it look like Sandra is the one behind
that
radical unschooling article.--=-
Sheesh...
I can't go and write about myself. That's tacky in the extreme.
Someone else would have to do that. At least it should have links to
Joyce's site and mine, and maybe a note that says add-ons and
complementary theories are not in themselves unschooling.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanna
--- In [email protected], Jenny Cyphers <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
And although NVC is listed as complementary, I (thankfully) don't see its language either. Is it because, being from California, I'm so steeped in it, along with certain other fumes?
Joanna
>I'm not really seeing any Law of Attraction stuff there--what am I missing? (I did see it listed after Dayna's name, but that's more a "credential" associated with one person.) I'm not seeing any of the text describing Radical Unschooling as coming from law of attraction...
> ***The Radical Unschooling site was created to promote law of attraction
> stuff, though I don't think it says so. If you feel like tweaking
> wikis, Bob, maybe add some links to that one. ;-)***
>
> Yes that's the one, the Radical Unschooling wiki site, and yes, it's because of the connection to and promotion of law of attraction.
And although NVC is listed as complementary, I (thankfully) don't see its language either. Is it because, being from California, I'm so steeped in it, along with certain other fumes?
Joanna
Rue Kream
That Radical Unschooling wiki could definitely use some work.
As Michael Scott says on The Office, "Wikipedia is the best thing ever.
Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So
you know you are getting the best possible information."
<G>
~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
As Michael Scott says on The Office, "Wikipedia is the best thing ever.
Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So
you know you are getting the best possible information."
<G>
~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 2/7/2010 10:00 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
so you can go write whatever you want in there. Not tacky - appropriate.
-pam
> I can't go and write about myself. That's tacky in the extreme.It isn't an article about you, though. It is about radical unschooling,
> Someone else would have to do that. At least it should have links to
> Joyce's site and mine, and maybe a note that says add-ons and
> complementary theories are not in themselves unschooling.
>
so you can go write whatever you want in there. Not tacky - appropriate.
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=-It isn't an article about you, though. It is about radical
unschooling,
so you can go write whatever you want in there. Not tacky -
appropriate.-=-
Changing anything that's there and putting my own link could seem to
be hostility, is my fear.
If someone else does it, probably not so much.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unschooling,
so you can go write whatever you want in there. Not tacky -
appropriate.-=-
Changing anything that's there and putting my own link could seem to
be hostility, is my fear.
If someone else does it, probably not so much.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
I have an account with Wikipedia, Sandra. You write what you want to
be there and I'll edit the page!
Robin B.
be there and I'll edit the page!
Robin B.
> -=-It isn't an article about you, though. It is about radical
> unschooling,
> so you can go write whatever you want in there. Not tacky -
> appropriate.-=-
>
> Changing anything that's there and putting my own link could seem to
> be hostility, is my fear.
> If someone else does it, probably not so much.
Jenny Cyphers
-=-Oh and the NVC stuff and other "complimentary" theories. I kind of
wish that whole section could be axed completely.- =-
***Whole section of... my site?
Whole section of "the unschooling community"?
Whole section of the universe?***
I was replying to my post about the radical unschooling wikipedia site, sorry, I didn't make that clear!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wish that whole section could be axed completely.- =-
***Whole section of... my site?
Whole section of "the unschooling community"?
Whole section of the universe?***
I was replying to my post about the radical unschooling wikipedia site, sorry, I didn't make that clear!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***I'm not really seeing any Law of Attraction stuff there--what am I missing? (I did see it listed after Dayna's name, but that's more a "credential" associated with one person.) I'm not seeing any of the text describing Radical Unschooling as coming from law of attraction.. .***
I went there and looked around some. Things have changed a bit there. It was there more. It's still there though, and you are right it is connected with one person.
I also had the same concerns that Pam had, about the radical unschooling page linking out from Sandra's name, then when you actually go there, Sandra is hardly listed or linked. She's there, as well as other folks, some that I'm more familiar with than others. I love learning about new people and new things, but I've been reading on unschooling sites and reading about unschooling for 10 yrs now. It seems that I would've heard about some of the people linked at some point. I guess part of what bugs me too, is that page seems to be a self promotional page for some people. Radical unschooling shouldn't be about self promotion, as a description. Certainly links to various long time unschooling advocates are good. Who gets to decide?
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I went there and looked around some. Things have changed a bit there. It was there more. It's still there though, and you are right it is connected with one person.
I also had the same concerns that Pam had, about the radical unschooling page linking out from Sandra's name, then when you actually go there, Sandra is hardly listed or linked. She's there, as well as other folks, some that I'm more familiar with than others. I love learning about new people and new things, but I've been reading on unschooling sites and reading about unschooling for 10 yrs now. It seems that I would've heard about some of the people linked at some point. I guess part of what bugs me too, is that page seems to be a self promotional page for some people. Radical unschooling shouldn't be about self promotion, as a description. Certainly links to various long time unschooling advocates are good. Who gets to decide?
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