Doing more
Sandra Dodd
I had a thought this morning about the recent criticism of the advice
to do more. The past week on this list has seen several mothers of
babies assuring us they could tell us how to help unschoolers, and
that our advice was lacking. (Some of them have apologized, or come
near it, in side e-mail, so I'm not trying to stir that up again.)
I do believe that it must be nearly impossible to begin to deschool in
the absence of school-age concerns, so it's possible that the mother
of a baby who reads all the deschooling articles she can find will nod
and say "Yep, got it; done."
In school, reading and being able to answer ten questions at the end
equals perfect learning. There's nothing better than 100%, unless
it's getting a bonus question too. And in school, once you've
"passed" a course (such as "Deschooling for Parents"), you never have
to take it again.
And so a lack of deschooling will make deschooling impossible.
And the lack of a school-aged child might make deschooling nonsensical.
And someone who thinks she's been unschooling for four years might
discover that on that day when her child doesn't go to school, she
needs to begin deschooling. Not the child, who hasn't been to school,
perhaps. But the mom, who spent ten or thirteen years in government
or private school, and then maybe two to ten years in universities or
something, and maybe taught a while, and then spent four or five years
thinking she was a graduate of the online deschooling course.
Reciting back what the deschooling articles say isn't being deschooled.
If that were true, then reading the Bill W book and being able to
recite it back and pass a test would be as good as actually going to
meetings and not drinking anymore.
Because unschooling is action, choices and doing, then reading and
writing about it isn't unschooling. It's helping people prepare
themselves to make better choices. Unschooling is a way of being.
Reading can help people change, but reading doesn't change your next
decision. Your own thoughts and understanding and awareness change
your next decision.
http://sandradodd.com/doit
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
Those are not single pages.
Someone just wrote and said she had read most of my site. I wrote:
"You do know I have over 800 unschooling pages, right? And by page I
mean webpage? Some would be six or eight pages printed out on paper."
Here's another good resource for anyone thinking "do more" is bad
advice. It's a collection of typical days, written by enthusiastic
mothers. Enthusiasm is one of your best tools. Anyone who's not
feeling enthusiastic should do more.
http://sandradodd.com/typical
That site, this list, Joyce's site, all have a world of ideas for what
"more" might be.
Sandra
Bonus points:
http://sandradodd.com/movies
http://sandradodd.com/art
http://sandradodd.com/random
to do more. The past week on this list has seen several mothers of
babies assuring us they could tell us how to help unschoolers, and
that our advice was lacking. (Some of them have apologized, or come
near it, in side e-mail, so I'm not trying to stir that up again.)
I do believe that it must be nearly impossible to begin to deschool in
the absence of school-age concerns, so it's possible that the mother
of a baby who reads all the deschooling articles she can find will nod
and say "Yep, got it; done."
In school, reading and being able to answer ten questions at the end
equals perfect learning. There's nothing better than 100%, unless
it's getting a bonus question too. And in school, once you've
"passed" a course (such as "Deschooling for Parents"), you never have
to take it again.
And so a lack of deschooling will make deschooling impossible.
And the lack of a school-aged child might make deschooling nonsensical.
And someone who thinks she's been unschooling for four years might
discover that on that day when her child doesn't go to school, she
needs to begin deschooling. Not the child, who hasn't been to school,
perhaps. But the mom, who spent ten or thirteen years in government
or private school, and then maybe two to ten years in universities or
something, and maybe taught a while, and then spent four or five years
thinking she was a graduate of the online deschooling course.
Reciting back what the deschooling articles say isn't being deschooled.
If that were true, then reading the Bill W book and being able to
recite it back and pass a test would be as good as actually going to
meetings and not drinking anymore.
Because unschooling is action, choices and doing, then reading and
writing about it isn't unschooling. It's helping people prepare
themselves to make better choices. Unschooling is a way of being.
Reading can help people change, but reading doesn't change your next
decision. Your own thoughts and understanding and awareness change
your next decision.
http://sandradodd.com/doit
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
Those are not single pages.
Someone just wrote and said she had read most of my site. I wrote:
"You do know I have over 800 unschooling pages, right? And by page I
mean webpage? Some would be six or eight pages printed out on paper."
Here's another good resource for anyone thinking "do more" is bad
advice. It's a collection of typical days, written by enthusiastic
mothers. Enthusiasm is one of your best tools. Anyone who's not
feeling enthusiastic should do more.
http://sandradodd.com/typical
That site, this list, Joyce's site, all have a world of ideas for what
"more" might be.
Sandra
Bonus points:
http://sandradodd.com/movies
http://sandradodd.com/art
http://sandradodd.com/random
oberhouseaubrey
Hi! I'm new to this group and new to unschooling. I just began about two weeks ago, and I'm struggling with the deschooling process, so I'm just looking for some insight about what I can do to create a better unschooling environment for myself and to rid myself of all of the schooly notions. I should probably give a little bit of background information first. I'm 16, and I began looking into unschooling back in October. My Mom was hesitant at first, but decided in early December that unschooling would in fact be good for me. My father, on the other hand, is very unsupportive. My parents are divorced and my mother has custody of me. We signed up to attend the UWWG and my dad at first agreed to go, but later emailed by mom saying he didn't want to because he didn't want me to get the idea that he supported me unschooling in any way. Since I've been out of school, I've oftentimes felt guilty about not learning enough and doing enough. I know a lot of it is because my dad is constantly questioning what I'm doing, and makes rude remarks about things not being educational, and gets angry with me if I don't want to do something with him (like going to a museum). I guess I'm just looking for ideas to relieve some of the pressure and to feel more comfortable about what I'm doing. Also, and I probably should have mentioned this earlier, going back to school is not a possibility. I have a lot of emotional and stress issues and school really just exacerbated the problems, to the point that I was becoming incapable of going about daily things and I became physically ill.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> I had a thought this morning about the recent criticism of the advice
> to do more. The past week on this list has seen several mothers of
> babies assuring us they could tell us how to help unschoolers, and
> that our advice was lacking. (Some of them have apologized, or come
> near it, in side e-mail, so I'm not trying to stir that up again.)
>
> I do believe that it must be nearly impossible to begin to deschool in
> the absence of school-age concerns, so it's possible that the mother
> of a baby who reads all the deschooling articles she can find will nod
> and say "Yep, got it; done."
>
> In school, reading and being able to answer ten questions at the end
> equals perfect learning. There's nothing better than 100%, unless
> it's getting a bonus question too. And in school, once you've
> "passed" a course (such as "Deschooling for Parents"), you never have
> to take it again.
>
> And so a lack of deschooling will make deschooling impossible.
> And the lack of a school-aged child might make deschooling nonsensical.
> And someone who thinks she's been unschooling for four years might
> discover that on that day when her child doesn't go to school, she
> needs to begin deschooling. Not the child, who hasn't been to school,
> perhaps. But the mom, who spent ten or thirteen years in government
> or private school, and then maybe two to ten years in universities or
> something, and maybe taught a while, and then spent four or five years
> thinking she was a graduate of the online deschooling course.
>
> Reciting back what the deschooling articles say isn't being deschooled.
> If that were true, then reading the Bill W book and being able to
> recite it back and pass a test would be as good as actually going to
> meetings and not drinking anymore.
>
> Because unschooling is action, choices and doing, then reading and
> writing about it isn't unschooling. It's helping people prepare
> themselves to make better choices. Unschooling is a way of being.
> Reading can help people change, but reading doesn't change your next
> decision. Your own thoughts and understanding and awareness change
> your next decision.
>
> http://sandradodd.com/doit
> http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
>
> Those are not single pages.
> Someone just wrote and said she had read most of my site. I wrote:
> "You do know I have over 800 unschooling pages, right? And by page I
> mean webpage? Some would be six or eight pages printed out on paper."
>
> Here's another good resource for anyone thinking "do more" is bad
> advice. It's a collection of typical days, written by enthusiastic
> mothers. Enthusiasm is one of your best tools. Anyone who's not
> feeling enthusiastic should do more.
>
> http://sandradodd.com/typical
>
> That site, this list, Joyce's site, all have a world of ideas for what
> "more" might be.
>
>
> Sandra
>
> Bonus points:
> http://sandradodd.com/movies
> http://sandradodd.com/art
> http://sandradodd.com/random
>
Sandra Dodd
-=My father, on the other hand, is very unsupportive. My parents are
divorced and my mother has custody of me. We signed up to attend the
UWWG and my dad at first agreed to go, but later emailed by mom saying
he didn't want to because he didn't want me to get the idea that he
supported me unschooling in any way. -=-
Was he supportive of you when you were in school?
Are there any ways in which he is supportive? Maybe we can give you
ideas about how to build on that.
-=-Since I've been out of school, I've oftentimes felt guilty about
not learning enough and doing enough. I know a lot of it is because my
dad is constantly questioning what I'm doing, and makes rude remarks
about things not being educational, and gets angry with me if I don't
want to do something with him (like going to a museum).-=-
Are you required to hang out with him a certain number of hours?
Maybe you could cut that down for a while, or if you're old enough to
bail early (if you're driving, maybe you could ask him to talk about
something besides school, since you're not IN school," and if he
doesn't figure out how to change the subject, leave. Train him, by
staying longer if he doesn't get onto that subject. <g> Operant
conditioning.
As to "not learning enough," if you're unschooling right you shouldn't
realize what you're learning as you learn it. As the connections
start to build and you look back and see the richness of the months or
years before, that's when you'll know.
In school there are report cards and progress this'n'that. You're not
in school.
If your dad does e-mail, maybe you could exchange links to interesting
videos or sites, and you could send him links to things that seem
particularly educational, from his point of view. Show him a little
what he wants to see and don't rub his nose in what he doesn't want to
see, maybe.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
divorced and my mother has custody of me. We signed up to attend the
UWWG and my dad at first agreed to go, but later emailed by mom saying
he didn't want to because he didn't want me to get the idea that he
supported me unschooling in any way. -=-
Was he supportive of you when you were in school?
Are there any ways in which he is supportive? Maybe we can give you
ideas about how to build on that.
-=-Since I've been out of school, I've oftentimes felt guilty about
not learning enough and doing enough. I know a lot of it is because my
dad is constantly questioning what I'm doing, and makes rude remarks
about things not being educational, and gets angry with me if I don't
want to do something with him (like going to a museum).-=-
Are you required to hang out with him a certain number of hours?
Maybe you could cut that down for a while, or if you're old enough to
bail early (if you're driving, maybe you could ask him to talk about
something besides school, since you're not IN school," and if he
doesn't figure out how to change the subject, leave. Train him, by
staying longer if he doesn't get onto that subject. <g> Operant
conditioning.
As to "not learning enough," if you're unschooling right you shouldn't
realize what you're learning as you learn it. As the connections
start to build and you look back and see the richness of the months or
years before, that's when you'll know.
In school there are report cards and progress this'n'that. You're not
in school.
If your dad does e-mail, maybe you could exchange links to interesting
videos or sites, and you could send him links to things that seem
particularly educational, from his point of view. Show him a little
what he wants to see and don't rub his nose in what he doesn't want to
see, maybe.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
<<<< If your dad does e-mail, maybe you could exchange links to interesting
videos or sites, and you could send him links to things that seem
particularly educational, from his point of view. >>>>
I think that I would back off from using the term "unschooling" around your
dad, and talk about "home learning" and "alternative education", if you are
talking about what you are doing at all. He may not be able to wrap his head
around unschooling, and he is probably worried. Perhaps you can show him how
vocational some of your activities could be. "Vocational" is a good
practical forward looking concept for people still trying to accept passion
based learning.
My late mother was sometimes ignorant and yet still vocal about her opinion.
What I found helpful was to find information from sources that she respected
(ie "experts"), rather than showing her the very same information from other
mothers. Perhaps your father would be more acceptant of information about
learning from people with plenty of letters after their name and various
awards.
For example John Taylor Gatto's critiques of the school system come from a
repeat winner of New York Teacher of the Year
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/. Howard Gardner (the theory of multiple
intelligences) http://www.howardgardner.com/ is Professor of Education at
Harvard. He might also find some food for thought from some of the brilliant
thinking expressed in some of the TED talks. http://www.ted.com/
These would show him that there are other ways to become educated and
successful outside of school, expressed in a way that makes sense to him,
rather than as seeing you as a "dropout" or whatever label his unfortunate
fears are giving you.
Perhaps your mother could gently point out to him that if he wants to spend
time with you, criticizing and rude remarks are hardly conducive to your
wishing to be in his company. You might also reassure him that home schooled
kids still go to good colleges, without necessarily making a commitment to
do so at any specific time yourself. One phrase that might help is "I
haven't ruled that out".
Robyn L. Coburn
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
Robyn L. Coburn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
videos or sites, and you could send him links to things that seem
particularly educational, from his point of view. >>>>
I think that I would back off from using the term "unschooling" around your
dad, and talk about "home learning" and "alternative education", if you are
talking about what you are doing at all. He may not be able to wrap his head
around unschooling, and he is probably worried. Perhaps you can show him how
vocational some of your activities could be. "Vocational" is a good
practical forward looking concept for people still trying to accept passion
based learning.
My late mother was sometimes ignorant and yet still vocal about her opinion.
What I found helpful was to find information from sources that she respected
(ie "experts"), rather than showing her the very same information from other
mothers. Perhaps your father would be more acceptant of information about
learning from people with plenty of letters after their name and various
awards.
For example John Taylor Gatto's critiques of the school system come from a
repeat winner of New York Teacher of the Year
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/. Howard Gardner (the theory of multiple
intelligences) http://www.howardgardner.com/ is Professor of Education at
Harvard. He might also find some food for thought from some of the brilliant
thinking expressed in some of the TED talks. http://www.ted.com/
These would show him that there are other ways to become educated and
successful outside of school, expressed in a way that makes sense to him,
rather than as seeing you as a "dropout" or whatever label his unfortunate
fears are giving you.
Perhaps your mother could gently point out to him that if he wants to spend
time with you, criticizing and rude remarks are hardly conducive to your
wishing to be in his company. You might also reassure him that home schooled
kids still go to good colleges, without necessarily making a commitment to
do so at any specific time yourself. One phrase that might help is "I
haven't ruled that out".
Robyn L. Coburn
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=My late mother was sometimes ignorant and yet still vocal about her
opinion.
What I found helpful was to find information from sources that she
respected
(ie "experts"), rather than showing her the very same information from
other
mothers. Perhaps your father would be more acceptant of information
about
learning from people with plenty of letters after their name and various
awards.-=-
Good idea.
There are articles here. Instead of sending him that blog, though,
dole them out to him as needed.
http://unschooling.blogspot.com
Sandra
opinion.
What I found helpful was to find information from sources that she
respected
(ie "experts"), rather than showing her the very same information from
other
mothers. Perhaps your father would be more acceptant of information
about
learning from people with plenty of letters after their name and various
awards.-=-
Good idea.
There are articles here. Instead of sending him that blog, though,
dole them out to him as needed.
http://unschooling.blogspot.com
Sandra
Jenny Cyphers
***We signed up to attend the UWWG and my dad at first agreed to go, but later emailed by mom saying he didn't want to because he didn't want me to get the idea that he supported me unschooling in any way.***
Could he not separate it? He doesn't have to like what you are doing to support YOU as a person. Lots of parents give that argument to their kids who want to study art, but the parents want them to be a doctor.
***I know a lot of it is because my dad is constantly questioning what I'm doing, and makes rude remarks about things not being educational, and gets angry with me if I don't want to do something with him (like going to a museum).***
Can you beat him to the suggestion box? Maybe instead of having him plan your time together, you could plan the time and invite him?
It's hard to know what kind of relationship you have with your father. I do know this, sometimes kids don't maintain relationships with their parents when they are older. You could maybe suggest that you'd like to have a better relationship with him, and that in 2 yrs, you could choose not to have one at all.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Could he not separate it? He doesn't have to like what you are doing to support YOU as a person. Lots of parents give that argument to their kids who want to study art, but the parents want them to be a doctor.
***I know a lot of it is because my dad is constantly questioning what I'm doing, and makes rude remarks about things not being educational, and gets angry with me if I don't want to do something with him (like going to a museum).***
Can you beat him to the suggestion box? Maybe instead of having him plan your time together, you could plan the time and invite him?
It's hard to know what kind of relationship you have with your father. I do know this, sometimes kids don't maintain relationships with their parents when they are older. You could maybe suggest that you'd like to have a better relationship with him, and that in 2 yrs, you could choose not to have one at all.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-You could maybe suggest that you'd like to have a better
relationship with him, and that in 2 yrs, you could choose not to have
one at all.-=-
At sixteen, it might already be time you could choose that, depending
on the state and the decree.
Perhaps you could tell him that you really do want him to go to the
water park, really. So that he can see some unschooling dads (Broc
Higgins and BenLovejoy will be there, and many others). You might
find a way (tactfully if possible, but if not, not) to say that if
he's not even willing to go and do that one thing to learn about
unschooling, that he will waive his right to discuss it with you at
all, because as it stands he only knows about school, while you and
your mom know about school AND unschooling. He's not qualified to
debate it in any way.
If he still refused to go, if it were me, I would probably bring it up
every time he invited me anywhere for a while. If he said "Do you
want to go to the movies?" (thinking of myself as a teen...) I might
say "Do you want me to?" If he said I just thought you might want
to, I'd say "Not really, no thanks." But if he said "I'd like that."
I'd say "When I asked you to go to the water park you refused, and I
REALLY wanted you to go. But I'll go to the movies with you."
Seriously. This is a harsh recommendation for me, but your dad's
being a bully, and if you can use his own motions against him, that's
not cheating.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
relationship with him, and that in 2 yrs, you could choose not to have
one at all.-=-
At sixteen, it might already be time you could choose that, depending
on the state and the decree.
Perhaps you could tell him that you really do want him to go to the
water park, really. So that he can see some unschooling dads (Broc
Higgins and BenLovejoy will be there, and many others). You might
find a way (tactfully if possible, but if not, not) to say that if
he's not even willing to go and do that one thing to learn about
unschooling, that he will waive his right to discuss it with you at
all, because as it stands he only knows about school, while you and
your mom know about school AND unschooling. He's not qualified to
debate it in any way.
If he still refused to go, if it were me, I would probably bring it up
every time he invited me anywhere for a while. If he said "Do you
want to go to the movies?" (thinking of myself as a teen...) I might
say "Do you want me to?" If he said I just thought you might want
to, I'd say "Not really, no thanks." But if he said "I'd like that."
I'd say "When I asked you to go to the water park you refused, and I
REALLY wanted you to go. But I'll go to the movies with you."
Seriously. This is a harsh recommendation for me, but your dad's
being a bully, and if you can use his own motions against him, that's
not cheating.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]