nicola Phillips

Hello ALL,
i joined here a couple of weeks ago but i have an 'issue' i could do with some advice.

my toddler (2 and a half) when we are out on walks will suddenly decide he wants to go off the path or in totally the wrong direction to where we are going - ..

today we had bundled up and went for a walk in the snow with the dog.
my little one then decided he was going to go off up the hill exploring .. i let him .. however when i said time to come back he wouldn't he kept going outa sight .. in the end i ran up and after him and brought him back onto the path we were going.

AM I meant to follow him ? let him lead? - there are times, though, when i need him to listen and come when i ask .. he just doesnt at all - throws big temper tantrums if i ask him to 'come this way now' or 'stop' and i have to get him then distract or just carry him screaming !

what and how do you deal with this ? ? ?
i don't agree with 'controlling' children however i do think some form of listening and coming when asked is needed - OR NOT

ahhhhh ahhhhhh help please
had a stressful walk today cant deal with another one -

thank you thank you Nicola xx

Sandra Dodd

-=-my toddler (2 and a half) when we are out on walks will suddenly
decide he wants to go off the path or in totally the wrong direction
to where we are going - .. -=-

What if at each junction you decide together which way to go? If one
direction is "wrong" and one is right, then you must be in a hurry to
get somewhere. Then you could explain that, and maybe offer to go
more slowly on the way home. But if you're not in a hurry, what
makes one way "wrong"?

-=-AM I meant to follow him ? let him lead?-=-

You're meant to make decisions based on your beliefs. (DARN those
tricky answers...)
What is the purpose of walking with the dog?
What is the purpose of taking your two year old and letting him walk
instead of having him in a stroller or a sled or a backpack?

-=- there are times, though, when i need him to listen and come when i
ask .. he just doesnt at all - throws big temper tantrums if i ask him
to 'come this way now' or 'stop' and i have to get him then distract
or just carry him screaming ! -=-

If you say "now" and "come this way" and "stop" all the time without
ceasing, it's like the boy who cried wolf. If you're arbitrary and
controlling for the sake of control, the only way he will win is to
bolt in "the wrong way."

-=-I don't agree with 'controlling' children however i do think some
form of listening and coming when asked is needed - OR NOT
-=-

If your husband was walking in front of a train and you yelled "STOP!"
would he? If so, why? Some people have gone in front of trains one
way or another on their own, on purpose, at some point in a life of
being overly controlled or disappointed. That's not a goal.

If you save "no" for when it really involves danger or emergency, then
your child will respond. If you say no all the time, he won't hear it
when you need him to hear it.

http://sandradodd.com/yes

Sandra



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tirra-Olufemi

In my mind the child is two so when it was me I accepted that there were times when I would call and my son would not listen. If I had to go and get him and he got mad after a while it was no biggie because I realized that two year olds get mad at time when their parents pick them up and begin going in a different direction.

Now if I have time I will explain to the child what is going on. Nothing too indepth. I will seek to point out different objects on the path to maybe help him shift his mind to something else. Personally, the biggest thing for me was to not judge my son's crying and not liking the situation as bad.

As long as I choose a peaceful response then the situation always turned out alright. After a while...especially when they get older then I set up the expectation. I will say, "you can go over there but after 15 minutes, we are leaving. I will give them heads up. We have 5 minutes before time to leave." "We are leaving in one minute." My thing is to always do my best to not abruptly end what my child is doing but to give the child heads up...heck I probably started this during the two year for both my sons.

Anyway, after a while a child will mature and realize that we will come back to the place. I can even say to maybe a 3 or 4 year old, "We will come back tomorrow." The only thing that will stop me from going back is a really bad situation...otherwise I must bring the child back when I said that I would so that it is now a trust relationship being built and over time with more maturity the resistance to leaving is resolved.

Hope this helps.

Peace
Tirra

"Know Thyself." Oracles of Delphi
Do you really know yourself or do you only know what you have been conditioned to believe about yourself?

NeverFear a Job Loss! Become a Professional Blogger Today and Earn a LivingOnline. Take Your Income into Your Own Hands. The NicheBlogger.





________________________________
From: nicola Phillips <littlemissferrit@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, December 22, 2009 5:31:35 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] advice / help please ..


Hello ALL,
i joined here a couple of weeks ago but i have an 'issue' i could do with some advice.

my toddler (2 and a half) when we are out on walks will suddenly decide he wants to go off the path or in totally the wrong direction to where we are going - ..

today we had bundled up and went for a walk in the snow with the dog.
my little one then decided he was going to go off up the hill exploring .. i let him .. however when i said time to come back he wouldn't he kept going outa sight .. in the end i ran up and after him and brought him back onto the path we were going.

AM I meant to follow him ? let him lead? - there are times, though, when i need him to listen and come when i ask .. he just doesnt at all - throws big temper tantrums if i ask him to 'come this way now' or 'stop' and i have to get him then distract or just carry him screaming !

what and how do you deal with this ? ? ?
i don't agree with 'controlling' children however i do think some form of listening and coming when asked is needed - OR NOT

ahhhhh ahhhhhh help please
had a stressful walk today cant deal with another one -

thank you thank you Nicola xx








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

nicola Phillips

THANKS Sandra ..
i only say NO to danger ie yest he was at the top of a hill standing at the edge where it was a sheer drop not walking into the field / woods where we were walking !
i dont use a pushchair (he hates them, i used a sling until he was 18 months then got one - )- walk and carry him my sling's are out on lone at the mo !!
he is VERY independant but at the same time still needs me to return too not at the stage of development where i can leave him (not that i want too anyway)
YES i agree on the walk point- walking the dog. Does it matter which way we walk - no it doesnt !! not at all .. so i will let him choose where to explore too.
I really do, let him learn by falling, going past his limits however the point when he is in real danger i PANIC .. i dont want an A&E trip ! (esp right b4 xmas!)
also all the places to walk dog do run near a road (i like in the city) i cant have him running off track to the road or into the carpark !! when we go to the woods there are several car parks !
THANKS SO MUCH advice will put it in place today - let him choose direction instead of saying we going this way !

much lve nicola xx xxx xxxx



--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-my toddler (2 and a half) when we are out on walks will suddenly
> decide he wants to go off the path or in totally the wrong direction
> to where we are going - .. -=-
>
> What if at each junction you decide together which way to go? If one
> direction is "wrong" and one is right, then you must be in a hurry to
> get somewhere. Then you could explain that, and maybe offer to go
> more slowly on the way home. But if you're not in a hurry, what
> makes one way "wrong"?
>
> -=-AM I meant to follow him ? let him lead?-=-
>
> You're meant to make decisions based on your beliefs. (DARN those
> tricky answers...)
> What is the purpose of walking with the dog?
> What is the purpose of taking your two year old and letting him walk
> instead of having him in a stroller or a sled or a backpack?
>
> -=- there are times, though, when i need him to listen and come when i
> ask .. he just doesnt at all - throws big temper tantrums if i ask him
> to 'come this way now' or 'stop' and i have to get him then distract
> or just carry him screaming ! -=-
>
> If you say "now" and "come this way" and "stop" all the time without
> ceasing, it's like the boy who cried wolf. If you're arbitrary and
> controlling for the sake of control, the only way he will win is to
> bolt in "the wrong way."
>
> -=-I don't agree with 'controlling' children however i do think some
> form of listening and coming when asked is needed - OR NOT
> -=-
>
> If your husband was walking in front of a train and you yelled "STOP!"
> would he? If so, why? Some people have gone in front of trains one
> way or another on their own, on purpose, at some point in a life of
> being overly controlled or disappointed. That's not a goal.
>
> If you save "no" for when it really involves danger or emergency, then
> your child will respond. If you say no all the time, he won't hear it
> when you need him to hear it.
>
> http://sandradodd.com/yes
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Lyla Wolfenstein

----- Original Message -----
From: nicola Phillips
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 2:16 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: advice / help please ..



THANKS Sandra ..
i only say NO to danger ie yest he was at the top of a hill standing at the edge where it was a sheer drop not walking into the field / woods where we were walking !
i dont use a pushchair (he hates them, i use

******************

i am confused - you say you let him decide where to go, and yet you say "he is at the top of a hill - not where the rest of us are going". also - don't loan your slings out if you need them and he'd still ride in one!

lyla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On 12/23/2009 2:16 AM, nicola Phillips wrote:
> THANKS SO MUCH advice will put it in place today - let him choose direction instead of saying we going this way
>

Taking a meandering walk with a young child is such a nice metaphor for
an unschooling life. I remember those walks when my children were
little, sometimes we didn't make it very far from our own front door
because the kids would get involved with some leaves or puddles or the
neighbor's cat. Sometimes I would just be there in the background,
letting the kids have their own experience. Sometimes I might sort of
"reach in" and add some little thing or turn over a rock or a leaf,
knowing that it would enrich the experience. Sometimes I'd be very
involved - digging through the leaves with them, discussing something,
showing them how to be still and let the kitty come to them, etc.

For it to be a really good metaphor, though, it should include the
parent choosing different places to start the walk - the park, the
beach, a different neighborhood, even just starting a different
direction out the door - different times of day, different times of
year, carrying different things along. And a parent will be ready and
prepared with ideas - "You could roll down that hill," "Let's go watch
the construction workers," "I brought bread to feed the ducks." The
parent should look for ways to be helpful. Lift the child onto walls to
walk on top of them. Help him leap over big puddles. Help him drag large
pieces of driftwood or big branches. Hold the kitty gently while he pets
her.

There is a line that is important to draw between offering ideas,
information, help, advice versus controlling the experience.

Going for a walk with a toddler is a really good way to learn about that
line.

It will help you later, when your toddler is a teenager.

-pam

Pam Sorooshian

If somebody wants to make a New Year's Resolution to NOT do this - that
would be great and I'd love to go to Disneyland with you <G>.

My pet peeve of the year is tour guide parents. These are parents who
seem to think their kid will never notice anything at all if the parent
doesn't point it out to them. They give a running commentary on
everything around them, constantly pointing out the obvious.

This is MOST annoying on rides at Disneyland. Pirates of the Caribbean -
"Look, Johnny, look there is a pirate and that's his gold and look there
is his big pirate ship just like your lego pirate ship and look at the
dog and look he has the keys see the men trying to get him to give them
the keys oh look at the donkey do you see the fire that's a parrot do
you remember uncle joe let you hold his parrot once did you like the
ride wasn't it fun?

-pam

Sandra Dodd

-=-...constantly pointing out the obvious.

-=-This is MOST annoying on rides at Disneyland. Pirates of the
Caribbean -
"Look, Johnny, look there is a pirate and that's his gold and look there
is his big pirate ship just like your lego pirate ship and look at the
dog and look he has the keys see the men trying to get him to give them
the keys oh look at the donkey do you see the fire that's a parrot do
you remember uncle joe let you hold his parrot once did you like the
ride wasn't it fun?-=-

As I read that I was irritated right along with you. But my parents
never once took me to Disneyland. And if we had gone my mom would've
been nervously chewing her fingernails and telling me no, don't,
stop, if you don't stop we're leaving the whole time.

The idea of a mom who would have taken me somewhere and actually
looked at a ship and would have bought me a Lego pirate ship (those
are expensive) and who would have a brother who owned a parrot sounds
kinda wonderful.

Yes, she shouldn't have talked so much. But she took her kid to
Disneyland and was actively interacting with him.

I've seen parents sigh and look away with unconcealed boredom while a
kid was asking "Mom, a parrot! Mom what is that?" And mom's too lazy
to look over and say "It's a donkey."

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On 12/23/2009 9:45 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> Yes, she shouldn't have talked so much. But she took her kid to
> Disneyland and was actively interacting with him.
>
> I've seen parents sigh and look away with unconcealed boredom while a
> kid was asking "Mom, a parrot! Mom what is that?" And mom's too lazy
> to look over and say "It's a donkey."
>

Yeah - I thought of that when I was writing. But, isn't a peeve
something that's kind of minor, but irritating/annoying? Neglect or
mistreatment would be in a different category - not just a peeve.

I hear homeschooling/unschooling parents do the tour guide schtick a lot
with their kids. They act like they are the narrator of their kid's
life. There is something about it that sounds like it doesn't "count"
unless mom points it out.

I think it is incredibly controlling. Maybe they just don't want the
child to miss out on anything, which is nice. But it is nonstop
commentary to make sure the kid sees what they want him to see, hears
what they want him to hear. It is nonstop - it totally controls every
second of what the kid is aware of (except when the kid has already
tuned the parent out). And, there is something more - it isn't about
making sure the kid is enjoying himself, that's not the tone. It isn't
just pointing out something that they think the kid might like, but
might miss. It is about making sure the kid is as "enriched" as possible
- it is to make him smarter. There is an ulterior motive.

-pam

Sandra Dodd

-=-I hear homeschooling/unschooling parents do the tour guide schtick
a lot
with their kids. They act like they are the narrator of their kid's
life. There is something about it that sounds like it doesn't "count"
unless mom points it out.-=-

I agree. It starts to sound like a teacher (and not a bright,
interesting teacher) taking a classroomful of kids to a museum.
Painful and irritating. Droning.

No doubt I've said too much to my kids sometimes. No doubt I'll do it
again. <g>

-=- It isn't
just pointing out something that they think the kid might like, but
might miss. It is about making sure the kid is as "enriched" as possible
- it is to make him smarter. There is an ulterior motive.-=-

Yes, but when I take my kids to an interesting place and follow them
around to answer their questions instead of pointing out the good
stuff in advance, I have an ulterior motive too, in a way. In a
pretty big way, I guess. <g> I want to be a great mom and I want them
to be happy kids.


Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Now if I have time I will explain to the child what is going on.
Nothing too indepth. I will seek to point out different objects on the
path to maybe help him shift his mind to something else. Personally,
the biggest thing for me was to not judge my son's crying and not
liking the situation as bad.-=-

I think I know what you meant by the second part of that, so I'm not
picking on you about this and it's not even probably about your
situation at all, but I've seen some moms who had been encouraged not
to "be judgmental" of their child's expressing his opinion. And so
the moms thought "Oh! It's okay for kids to be unhappy" or "It's okay
for kids to cry," and rather than just accepting it as a legitimate
form of communication, it seems that sometimes the mom will ignore the
crying or the expressions of frustration, thinking that that's what it
means to "not judge it as bad."

They go from the idea that a mother should demand a child shut up and
not cry, to accepting that a mother can just listen to the crying and
complaining and not do anything past reassure the child that it's okay
that he's crying.

I'm not being really clear, I'm sure.

Mindful parenting should ideally (in my version or vision of it)
involve the parents considering any noise or gestures from their
children as communication, and try from an early age to have such a
relationship with the child that both trust the other and are
attentive to the others' moods and needs.

Back to the top quote, one thing that helped us was if I did feel in a
hurry and a toddler wandered toward something interesting, I would go
too, and agree that it was very interesting, and work it into the next
few minutes' conversation. If it was mushrooms under a tree and we
were on the way to the store, I could say "Let's look at the mushrooms
at the store when we get there too," or something. Rather than see
the interesting thing as an isolated bit of excitement that we were
now going to abandon forever, I'd try to make a connection with
something else, helping the child feel like he was going toward,
rather than just away from.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

nicola Phillips

THANKYOU .. that is GREAT advice.

.. .... seem to be going through a patch of learning through what 'others' see as 'bad behaviour' at the mo.
getting looks, comments and tuts :-(

today .. went out for lunch - quiet country pub - we were the only ones in the pub.
my little one by ACCIDENT brushed passed the xmas tree (sat at table right nxt to tree- he wanted too) a paper cracker fell from the tree. he picked it up and through it back on the tree. WELL it was as if he'd done something dreadfull. the bar lady said 'you sat sat there and let him through the cracker at the tree'
i was taken aback - a paper cracker !! my son was tying to get it back where it had fallen from. - he did.
then after that we went on a santa steam train to the 'north pole' .. 2yr old hyped with excitment wanted to look out of the window at the snow fields not sit down .. i was happy for him standing infact if he hadnt have i would have sugested it .. the people on the train to their children 'no you must sit' highlighting i was the only one letting my son look out of the window !
ENGLISH people .. (im english ) so feel i can say it ! are so stuck up - no fun
feeling down at mo as now im tired as is my little one - totally over tired and wont go to sleep ! he too excited to sleep after the fun day. he is in his room reading books / talking to his soft animals about today 'teddie and mumma ..' cute to listen too actually.
ill stop the ramble and get myself a cuppa Tea!!

xxmuch love xx

--- In [email protected], Tirra-Olufemi <tyra.general@...> wrote:
>
> In my mind the child is two so when it was me I accepted that there were times when I would call and my son would not listen. If I had to go and get him and he got mad after a while it was no biggie because I realized that two year olds get mad at time when their parents pick them up and begin going in a different direction.
>
> Now if I have time I will explain to the child what is going on. Nothing too indepth. I will seek to point out different objects on the path to maybe help him shift his mind to something else. Personally, the biggest thing for me was to not judge my son's crying and not liking the situation as bad.
>
> As long as I choose a peaceful response then the situation always turned out alright. After a while...especially when they get older then I set up the expectation. I will say, "you can go over there but after 15 minutes, we are leaving. I will give them heads up. We have 5 minutes before time to leave." "We are leaving in one minute." My thing is to always do my best to not abruptly end what my child is doing but to give the child heads up...heck I probably started this during the two year for both my sons.
>
> Anyway, after a while a child will mature and realize that we will come back to the place. I can even say to maybe a 3 or 4 year old, "We will come back tomorrow." The only thing that will stop me from going back is a really bad situation...otherwise I must bring the child back when I said that I would so that it is now a trust relationship being built and over time with more maturity the resistance to leaving is resolved.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Peace
> Tirra
>
> "Know Thyself." Oracles of Delphi
> Do you really know yourself or do you only know what you have been conditioned to believe about yourself?
>
> NeverFear a Job Loss! Become a Professional Blogger Today and Earn a LivingOnline. Take Your Income into Your Own Hands. The NicheBlogger.
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: nicola Phillips <littlemissferrit@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tue, December 22, 2009 5:31:35 PM
> Subject: [AlwaysLearning] advice / help please ..
>
>
> Hello ALL,
> i joined here a couple of weeks ago but i have an 'issue' i could do with some advice.
>
> my toddler (2 and a half) when we are out on walks will suddenly decide he wants to go off the path or in totally the wrong direction to where we are going - ..
>
> today we had bundled up and went for a walk in the snow with the dog.
> my little one then decided he was going to go off up the hill exploring .. i let him .. however when i said time to come back he wouldn't he kept going outa sight .. in the end i ran up and after him and brought him back onto the path we were going.
>
> AM I meant to follow him ? let him lead? - there are times, though, when i need him to listen and come when i ask .. he just doesnt at all - throws big temper tantrums if i ask him to 'come this way now' or 'stop' and i have to get him then distract or just carry him screaming !
>
> what and how do you deal with this ? ? ?
> i don't agree with 'controlling' children however i do think some form of listening and coming when asked is needed - OR NOT
>
> ahhhhh ahhhhhh help please
> had a stressful walk today cant deal with another one -
>
> thank you thank you Nicola xx
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Pam Sorooshian

On 12/23/2009 10:37 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> No doubt I've said too much to my kids sometimes. No doubt I'll do it
> again.<g>
>
Oh yeah, me too. My kids are pretty good at shushing me, though, if I go on.

> -=- It isn't
> just pointing out something that they think the kid might like, but
> might miss. It is about making sure the kid is as "enriched" as possible
> - it is to make him smarter. There is an ulterior motive.-=-
>
> Yes, but when I take my kids to an interesting place and follow them
> around to answer their questions instead of pointing out the good
> stuff in advance, I have an ulterior motive too, in a way. In a
> pretty big way, I guess.<g> I want to be a great mom and I want them
> to be happy kids.
>

Disneyland - happiest place on earth - one WOULD think the ulterior
motive would be "happy kids."

The other thing about doing this at Disneyland (where it is very common)
is that there is so MUCH to see that it seems just goofy (ha ha ha ) for
a parent to try to control what a child sees. I have sat on Small Word
with parents who constantly, in a steady stream, direct their child's
attention to the particular dolls they want them to see when there are
hundreds of others - it isn't like the kid isn't going to be looking at
anything. They aren't just picking the couple of things that might mean
a lot to him, it is whatever the parent's eyes land on, they just give a
running commentary as if they are the lens through which their child
should view things.

This came to mind because it seemed related, to me, to letting the
little child lead the way on a walk. There is a balance to look for
between following and leading - unschooling isn't one or the other.
Being aware of looking for that balance is good for unschooling.

-pam

-pam

nicola Phillips

yes he went up the hill i was at the bottom on the path waiting .. when i said 'come on this way now' he decided to walk back it the direction we had been in but at the top of the hill not on the path. however where he was then stops and it was a drop down into brambles bushes ..

re slings yes learnt that one .. .. ALWAYS LEARNING huh !! ...

--- In [email protected], "Lyla Wolfenstein" <lylaw@...> wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: nicola Phillips
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 2:16 AM
> Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: advice / help please ..
>
>
>
> THANKS Sandra ..
> i only say NO to danger ie yest he was at the top of a hill standing at the edge where it was a sheer drop not walking into the field / woods where we were walking !
> i dont use a pushchair (he hates them, i use
>
> ******************
>
> i am confused - you say you let him decide where to go, and yet you say "he is at the top of a hill - not where the rest of us are going". also - don't loan your slings out if you need them and he'd still ride in one!
>
> lyla
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

nicola Phillips

YES Sandra thankyou.
had another challenging day today ..
more from outsiders not from my son ! -
firstly. . went out for lunch, sat at the table right nxt to the xmas tree the table little one choose. when he walked passed it he brushed the tree and a paper cracker fell off. he then picked it up and through it back onto the tree. .. well the bar lady went off on one 'you just sat there and let her though the cracker at the tree'her' is a he for starters ! ! my son was just trying to put the cracker back on the tree where it fell from .

after that we went on a santa steam train .. again Teddie was doing nothing wrong - he was standing on the wodden seat looking out of the window at the snow fields - other parents oo look that child should be sat on his bottom .. GRRRR ....

wont ramble too tired !
thanks again
love Nicola xx

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-Now if I have time I will explain to the child what is going on.
> Nothing too indepth. I will seek to point out different objects on the
> path to maybe help him shift his mind to something else. Personally,
> the biggest thing for me was to not judge my son's crying and not
> liking the situation as bad.-=-
>
> I think I know what you meant by the second part of that, so I'm not
> picking on you about this and it's not even probably about your
> situation at all, but I've seen some moms who had been encouraged not
> to "be judgmental" of their child's expressing his opinion. And so
> the moms thought "Oh! It's okay for kids to be unhappy" or "It's okay
> for kids to cry," and rather than just accepting it as a legitimate
> form of communication, it seems that sometimes the mom will ignore the
> crying or the expressions of frustration, thinking that that's what it
> means to "not judge it as bad."
>
> They go from the idea that a mother should demand a child shut up and
> not cry, to accepting that a mother can just listen to the crying and
> complaining and not do anything past reassure the child that it's okay
> that he's crying.
>
> I'm not being really clear, I'm sure.
>
> Mindful parenting should ideally (in my version or vision of it)
> involve the parents considering any noise or gestures from their
> children as communication, and try from an early age to have such a
> relationship with the child that both trust the other and are
> attentive to the others' moods and needs.
>
> Back to the top quote, one thing that helped us was if I did feel in a
> hurry and a toddler wandered toward something interesting, I would go
> too, and agree that it was very interesting, and work it into the next
> few minutes' conversation. If it was mushrooms under a tree and we
> were on the way to the store, I could say "Let's look at the mushrooms
> at the store when we get there too," or something. Rather than see
> the interesting thing as an isolated bit of excitement that we were
> now going to abandon forever, I'd try to make a connection with
> something else, helping the child feel like he was going toward,
> rather than just away from.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

alpine starrmom

I caught myself doing this once on a hike and then jokingly started saying,
"O.k. kids, now take a right step. Now a left, now a right. Oh, yes and
remember to breath. Now another right step and then don't forget the
left!" Ha! (At least I noticed that I was doing it!)

On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> On 12/23/2009 10:37 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> > No doubt I've said too much to my kids sometimes. No doubt I'll do it
> > again.<g>
> >
> Oh yeah, me too. My kids are pretty good at shushing me, though, if I go
> on.
>
>
> > -=- It isn't
> > just pointing out something that they think the kid might like, but
> > might miss. It is about making sure the kid is as "enriched" as possible
> > - it is to make him smarter. There is an ulterior motive.-=-
> >
> > Yes, but when I take my kids to an interesting place and follow them
> > around to answer their questions instead of pointing out the good
> > stuff in advance, I have an ulterior motive too, in a way. In a
> > pretty big way, I guess.<g> I want to be a great mom and I want them
> > to be happy kids.
> >
>
> Disneyland - happiest place on earth - one WOULD think the ulterior
> motive would be "happy kids."
>
> The other thing about doing this at Disneyland (where it is very common)
> is that there is so MUCH to see that it seems just goofy (ha ha ha ) for
> a parent to try to control what a child sees. I have sat on Small Word
> with parents who constantly, in a steady stream, direct their child's
> attention to the particular dolls they want them to see when there are
> hundreds of others - it isn't like the kid isn't going to be looking at
> anything. They aren't just picking the couple of things that might mean
> a lot to him, it is whatever the parent's eyes land on, they just give a
> running commentary as if they are the lens through which their child
> should view things.
>
> This came to mind because it seemed related, to me, to letting the
> little child lead the way on a walk. There is a balance to look for
> between following and leading - unschooling isn't one or the other.
> Being aware of looking for that balance is good for unschooling.
>
> -pam
>
> -pam
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tirra-Olufemi

==>Mindful parenting should ideally (in my version or vision of it)
involve the parents considering any noise or gestures from their
children as communication, and try from an early age to have such a
relationship with the child that both trust the other and are
attentive to the others' moods and needs.

Sandra, you are I see eye to eye. I totally understand what you conveyed and that is how I see it. The cry is a form of communication...it is always a cue. Sometimes there is nothing for me to do other than be present, sometimes there is something I need to do. So yes, I totally vibe you.

I did not realize that I was a very angry person until I became a parent. So with my older son I had to learn that children will do what children do and that it is my responsibility to just roll with it...keeping us all safe, helping us to learn to work together and truly seeking to enjoy the relationship.

I was once a mom who was trying to do everything the right way. I have always leaned toward mindful parenting though I did not all time know what to do because I had a preset notion of what parenting entailed.

And then when I realized the mindful way of doing it I tried to do that the "right way"....but the disparity between me being mindful in public and a raging maniac at home was too evident for me to live like that for long.

So when I wrote the comment about not judging his cry, it had more to do with me learning that a child's cry is nothing personal against me and it is not a reflection on me as a person. Children cry to communicate, to release frustration...whatever.

Mindful parenting as I have come to experience has more to do with me staying in the moment and as I do so then I am able to ascertain what it is that I need to do in the situation.

Yes, I agree with you wholeheartedly. You did a great job of clarifying my point. Thank you!

~T




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

missalexmissalex

Just wanted to say quickly, I don't know how relevant this is for you, but I never, ever go outside with my 2 1/2 YO and my not-perfectly-trained dog without my daughter being in a stroller or carrier. On the rare occasions I let her down, I tie him to a tree. I live in a crowded complex area with limited sidewalks and I would rather err on the side of caution. My husband does AM/late PM walks, and in the middle of the day I put her in the stroller and run 3 quick laps around our street. Turns out he actually likes a short period of running more than a long meander anyway.Katya is a carrier kid too. This is literally the only time we use a stroller. She likes it because of the running, mostly, I think. We sometimes run the dog then I walk with just her. Maybe it would help you to separate their needs.

Alex
mama to Katya, 2 1/2 years

--- In [email protected], "nicola Phillips" <littlemissferrit@...> wrote:
>
> Hello ALL,
> i joined here a couple of weeks ago but i have an 'issue' i could do with some advice.
>
> my toddler (2 and a half) when we are out on walks will suddenly decide he wants to go off the path or in totally the wrong direction to where we are going - ..
>
> today we had bundled up and went for a walk in the snow with the dog.

Sandra Dodd

-=-They aren't just picking the couple of things that might mean
a lot to him, it is whatever the parent's eyes land on, they just give a
running commentary as if they are the lens through which their child
should view things.-=-

Oh, right! And some parents think they're the lens through which
their child should view the world when the parents are saying "That's
stupid," and "that's boring," and that's the kind of things my mom
said but I knew for certain from a young age that she was wrong. I
would love to have had more time to think she was awesomely right.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

I caught myself doing this once on a hike and then jokingly started saying,
"O.k. kids, now take a right step. Now a left, now a right. Oh, yes and
remember to breath. Now another right step and then don't forget the
left!" Ha! (At least I noticed that I was doing it!)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

This reminds me of the "good job" thing. Its good job for pooping. Good job for drinking. Good job for eating. Good job for....
I have work with dogs all my life and sometimes I hear parents say good job more than I did when working with dogs.
Worse than good job is good boy or good girl. I once said that to my son when he was a toddler and my husband Brian ( who used to do it) call me in on it. He said : "He is not a dog" and we both laughed.


 
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
 




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Yes, I caught myself doing this in Nice this year. We were walking round
the old castle on the acropolis and the interpretation board was in French
only. So I switched into mediator mode: doing my best with my limited
knowledge of French to translate the board for Jess, who promptly told me she
was enjoying looking at things and walking round/climbing on them and could I
please shut up? If she needed a halting attempt at a translation, I'm
sure she'd have asked me, but the experience of being in that space in that
sunlight, enjoying the Mediterranean air and climbing on old walls, was far
more meaningful, far more creative, than any dry facts I could regurgitate.


But, as Sandra says, I suppose there's a big difference between (a)
learning not to volunteer to interpret every detail on your child's behalf and
(b) being unwilling or unavailable to discuss interesting things when they
arise.

Jude x

>They aren't just picking the couple of things that might mean
> a lot to him, it is whatever the parent's eyes land on, they just give a
> running commentary as if they are the lens through which their child
> should view things.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

,ENGLISH people .. (im english ) so feel i can say it ! are so stuck up -
no fun >

Nicola, I know exactly what you mean. I wonder if it's a Protestant
work-ethic thing? Every time we come back to England from abroad, I'm stunned
by how limited and bounded children's lives here can be. There are so many
spaces that the English see as inappropriate for children when really they
mean that the presence of children might be inconvenient for adults. And,
like your story about Teddie and the Christmas tree, there seems a
willingness to misinterpret children's behaviour and see it through the meannest
possible lens.

Here, if you do take a child to an 'adult' space, praise is heaped on the
child who behaves least like a young person. We see this because of Jess's
involvement in music. I remember Jess being praised to the high heavens
after a classical concert that she'd got bored with halfway through, but
she disturbed no-one and read a book. And yet, at a jazz gig that she
absolutely adored, she was looked on disapprovingly because she got up and danced
at the back of the hall (appropriate to the music and not disturbing
anyone's view of the stage!).

Jude x




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thecugals

--- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
>
> > This reminds me of the "good job" thing. Its good job for pooping. Good job for drinking. Good job for eating. Good job for....
> I have work with dogs all my life and sometimes I hear parents say good job more than I did when working with dogs.


I can't even remember when I used to say "good job" to my son, but he obviously picked it up and figured that's how everyone talks to each other. When he was almost 4, my mom came for a visit (we only saw each other once or twice a year in those days). One day she made a grilled cheese sandwich for him and he said, "This is a great sandwich Grandma! Good job!" This totally cracked us up of course, but when my mom went back home, she told this story at work and said that, actually, it felt really good to be appreciated like that and wouldn't it be great if we adults were more like that towards each other. So for the rest of the day everyone in the office said things like, "Thanks for the report, Barbara, good job!"

Sandra Dodd

-=-So for the rest of the day everyone in the office said things like,
"Thanks for the report, Barbara, good job!"-=-

That's a sweet story, though, because it was friendly and nice. I've
said "good job" more than I wish I had myself. <G>

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

nicola Phillips

Hi Jude xx xx
I think your right esp with the work ethic !
thanks aswell for pointing out 'children get praised for not acting there age but sitting quietly'(acting like an adult) Brits live in the dark ages !! children to be 'seen and not heard' :-S ..I hadnt put that 2 and 2 together but your SO right.

Best place in UK for eating out with kids is Italian restaurants - they welcome children with open arm's, as well as welcoming there hindrance !
the last time i went out with a bunch of friends / various age's children, the waiters let the little one's help take 'the orders' from the whole restaurant they were brilliant :-) in fact they even got them singing and clapping Italian songs -
much love Nicola x





--- In [email protected], JudithAnneMurphy@... wrote:
>
> ,ENGLISH people .. (im english ) so feel i can say it ! are so stuck up -
> no fun >
>
> Nicola, I know exactly what you mean. I wonder if it's a Protestant
> work-ethic thing? Every time we come back to England from abroad, I'm stunned
> by how limited and bounded children's lives here can be. There are so many
> spaces that the English see as inappropriate for children when really they
> mean that the presence of children might be inconvenient for adults. And,
> like your story about Teddie and the Christmas tree, there seems a
> willingness to misinterpret children's behaviour and see it through the meannest
> possible lens.
>
> Here, if you do take a child to an 'adult' space, praise is heaped on the
> child who behaves least like a young person. We see this because of Jess's
> involvement in music. I remember Jess being praised to the high heavens
> after a classical concert that she'd got bored with halfway through, but
> she disturbed no-one and read a book. And yet, at a jazz gig that she
> absolutely adored, she was looked on disapprovingly because she got up and danced
> at the back of the hall (appropriate to the music and not disturbing
> anyone's view of the stage!).
>
> Jude x
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>