nicola Phillips

Hello Im Nicola! i have one son Teddie who is 2.7months and im am/will be unschooling ! we are English, living in England !!

My question is - im finding myself saying 'Teddie LISTEN'
'Teddie NO' on a daily basis :-( i do not want to be this parent however how do you stop a child doing something that will end in danger if they dont 'listen' ? ? ?? Teddie is a very good child not willfull or badly behaved just wants to be doing things he isnt capable of. ie running down a hill far to steep that if he did run he'd end up scraping his face badly..
i feel im loosing the close bond we had he is only 2yrs ahhh ahhh i used a sling for 18months then invested in a pushchair (mummy facing) i also managed to loose my sling when camping and havnt re invested in one.

I'm also finding i just dont have time to fun things - i dont know why i seem to have lost something within myself. i cant even remember when i last got the paints out. our day isnt fun packed at te mo, its washing, cooking, errends,chores.... did make it swiming today and had a friend over for a play, but i didnt get done what i wanted and that was to start making xmas decorations with Teddie.

my other ponder is how do you teach a child to read when unschooling ? ?/
much love and thanks Nicola xx

troubadour4me

Nicola, I hear your frustration. Your son wants to move and likes to run downhill. Are there grassy hills around that he can run down? I think your talking about him falling on a road hill? Are there places that you can say yes too instead of no? How do you know he isn't capable of doing what he wants unless you let go of your fear and let him?
I too am learning this from this board and have a thread called struggle of wills on here now.
We don't "teach" kids,they learn when they are ready. One way my son learns to write,read from a ds game called scribblenauts. He asks me how to spell something and he uses the keyboard on the game,writes the word and the object appears..it's really cool!
We don't worry at what age he is reading,that's school control.
I am always in awe how my son learns. I am leaving post now because others here who are very wise will address your concerns and help you.

--- In [email protected], "nicola Phillips" <littlemissferrit@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Im Nicola! i have one son Teddie who is 2.7months and im am/will be unschooling ! we are English, living in England !!
>
> My question is - im finding myself saying 'Teddie LISTEN'
> 'Teddie NO' on a daily basis :-( i do not want to be this parent however how do you stop a child doing something that will end in danger if they dont 'listen' ? ? ?? Teddie is a very good child not willfull or badly behaved just wants to be doing things he isnt capable of. ie running down a hill far to steep that if he did run he'd end up scraping his face badly..
> i feel im loosing the close bond we had he is only 2yrs ahhh ahhh i used a sling for 18months then invested in a pushchair (mummy facing) i also managed to loose my sling when camping and havnt re invested in one.
>
> I'm also finding i just dont have time to fun things - i dont know why i seem to have lost something within myself. i cant even remember when i last got the paints out. our day isnt fun packed at te mo, its washing, cooking, errends,chores.... did make it swiming today and had a friend over for a play, but i didnt get done what i wanted and that was to start making xmas decorations with Teddie.
>
> my other ponder is how do you teach a child to read when unschooling ? ?/
> much love and thanks Nicola xx
>

missalexmissalex

Hi Nicola,

> > how do you stop a child doing something that will end in danger if they dont 'listen' ? ? ??

More often for us it is a situation in which it can end in danger if I do not assist. I think more of spotting. Is that what you call it England? :) You know like when someone is lifting weights and you stand by to catch the barbells should they suddenly tire out. When my daughter wants to walk down something steep or on something iffy I hold on to her hood or collar. She has made quite a few falls on her face in slow motion that way. She doesn't get hurt, just annoyed. I do a lot of nonchalantly putting a hand on her or lightly under her armpits if the thing under her might be unreliable or steady the object she's grabbing when other parents tell their kids to stop. IE standing up in the high chair, shaking a tall lamp/ladder, walking on top or a planter.

The AlwaysUnschooled board has had a bunch of safety/wee littles threads. If you haven't checked it out, do.

Alex
mama to Katya, 2 1/2

[email protected]

<Hello Im Nicola! i have one son Teddie who is 2.7months and im am/will be
unschooling ! we are English, living in England !! >

Hi Nicola, great to see you found your way here :-)

<I'm also finding i just dont have time to fun things - i dont know why i
seem to have lost something within myself. i cant even remember when i last
got the paints out. our day isnt fun packed at te mo, its washing, cooking,
errends,chores.I'm also finding i just dont have time to fun things - i
dont know why i seem to have lost something within myself. i cant even
remember when i last got the >

I know that frustration all too well. In my experience (I still have lots
of work to do on my thought processes!) it's rooted in idealizing the day
you intended - making decorations - rather than going with the flow and
finding the creative and interesting in the everyday things you did instead.
I'm guessing you and Teddie can talk while you do the chores? Maybe Teddie
might like to play with some water while you do the washing? The wise and
experienced unschoolers here will probably have loads of suggestions of how
you can include Teddie in this kind of thing (much more than I can, having
come to this rather late). All I can say is that you might feel less
pressured if you avoid thinking that you've missed something on your timetable
and instead think of what you and Teddie have done with the day - you went
swimming and had a friend over for play, how lovely!

Jude x





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nicola Phillips

Hi guys thankyou for your reply .. Teddie does run down grass hills however there is a tarmack hill that is SOOOOO steep even adults hold a handrail! Teddie wants to run down and tries - ! i really dont want a trip to A&E !
thats for the reading thing - thays what i assumed he will just pick it up with guidness when he is ready - wild guess 7yrs ish.
currently i dont give him acsees to the laptop and he doesnt really watch T.V .. very very occasional -if im ill for example(i had swime flu for 2 weeks so t.v did go on then)somethimes of an eve if he has has a very busy day il pop it on the no adverts channel 'cbeebies' just under 5yrs kids tv channel. whilst im making tea or something but it isnt a daily or even weekly thing. ..

look forward to learning on this loop - i went to a 'free' school which is unschooling ish just at a school !! didnt have to attend lessons no uniforn and so on did what we wanted under a school roof .. dont know if you have this type of school in America? the most famous one is 'summerhill' in this country. (the one i went to has now shut down due to lack of students - such a shame)
much love Nicola xx


--- In [email protected], "missalexmissalex" <missalexmissalex@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Nicola,
>
> > > how do you stop a child doing something that will end in danger if they dont 'listen' ? ? ??
>
> More often for us it is a situation in which it can end in danger if I do not assist. I think more of spotting. Is that what you call it England? :) You know like when someone is lifting weights and you stand by to catch the barbells should they suddenly tire out. When my daughter wants to walk down something steep or on something iffy I hold on to her hood or collar. She has made quite a few falls on her face in slow motion that way. She doesn't get hurt, just annoyed. I do a lot of nonchalantly putting a hand on her or lightly under her armpits if the thing under her might be unreliable or steady the object she's grabbing when other parents tell their kids to stop. IE standing up in the high chair, shaking a tall lamp/ladder, walking on top or a planter.
>
> The AlwaysUnschooled board has had a bunch of safety/wee littles threads. If you haven't checked it out, do.
>
> Alex
> mama to Katya, 2 1/2
>

Sandra Dodd

Jenny Cyphers

***thats for the reading thing - thays what i assumed he will just pick it up with guidness when he is ready - wild guess 7yrs ish. ***
 
My oldest daughter learned how to read very gradually and was reading fully about the age of 11.  My younger daughter is 8 and is reading a lot, not everything, but she can sit down with a picture book or some kind of easy reader style of book and read everything in it, not that she does that all the time.  We have a book shelf with picture books and little kid books that she'll go through, to read to her babies.
 
Some kids will pick up reading at or before the age of 7 and some won't.  In the meantime, they are learning how to read all the time.  We live in a culture that has the written word everywhere, on signs, in games, on tv, online, on packages, in stores.  It would be hard NOT to absorb all that if given the space and freedom to do so without pressure.





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Sandra Dodd

-=- wild guess 7yrs ish. ***

My oldest daughter learned how to read very gradually and was reading
fully about the age of 11. My younger daughter is 8 and is reading a
lot, not everything, but she can sit down with a picture book or some
kind of easy reader style of book and read everything in it, not that
she does that all the time. We have a book shelf with picture books
and little kid books that she'll go through, to read to her babies.-=-

Yeah, don't guess or count on any age.

Mine were 8, 9 and 11, and they're grown and read perfectly well.

There are very many stories of how kids learned to read here, and some
on the unexpected benefits of later reading:
http://sandradodd.com/reading

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Beth

=\=thats for the reading thing - thays what i assumed he will just pick it
up with guidness when he is ready - wild guess 7yrs ish. =\=

My youngest just started to read fluently over the summer. He's 11. His
sisters read much earlier, at ages 6 and 8. My son got very interested in
Ocarina of Time, and his reading noticeably improved from reading the
manual, looking up cheat codes online, etc.

Beth D.

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

My son MD was reading fluently before he turned 7. He  is now almost 7 and a half and reads amazingly fast.
He started the process of reading and writing around 3.5 years old. He would use foam letters to write things like "Thomas" ( he loved Thomas the Tank Engine).
He recognized   certain words in signs  like Wal-Mart, Hy-Vee, Subway.
At around 5 he was way into video games and new PLAY, GAME, STOP and some other words.
By the time he was 5.5, 6 and beyond he was heavily into ROblox .
Roblox is an online game he loves. You can build your own games and play on other player's games they built.
 He then wanted to communicate and make friends with other players.
The players can "talk" to each other by either typing their own words or picking from a list of easy phrases like " Do you wanna be friends?"
"Follow me"
" I like your place"
and much more.
Soon that was not enough for him and I constantly sat with him to read and type. Having a toddler  made me not be available ALL the time so he started typing simple phrases on his own.
Then he would ask me how to spell so he could write. That is when he learned ALL the letters.
In the beginning I still typed a lot for him cause I was faster and he wanted fast.
More and more he did it on his own. He got to the point where he barely needed me and would ask me to spell a word just to check if he had gotten it right. That is when I realized he was reading. He was about 6 and a half. 
About 3-4 months later he started reading everything around him out loud. Signs, fliers...What ever he got a hold of.
And he reads fast.
At the same time he started asking some interesting phonic questions.
Phonics was absolutely NOT the way into reading for him.
Its amazing the questions he makes about phonis . I wish I remembered some now.
He now loves reading and reads books for older kids , usually books meant for kids 10 and older like Cat Warriors.
He also reads easier books that are funny and loves to read to his sister.
Books are fun to him. Not a chore. Not something hard or difficult.
He types amazingly fast too and reads even faster. Gosh I am a fast reader but he beats me!!
He is also a great speller ! He is better than most teenagers I read.
 
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/

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jodieandjemimah

Hi, Nicola I am feeling very sympathetic reading your post. My daughter is 3 and I have the same struggles. I have also just joined this group and was wondering if someone could tell me about resources re. unschooling and 3 year olds. What does unschooling have to say about the idea of developmental steps and what a 3 year old can mentally manage or need to have managed for them? My daughter is really clever but not really up to the idea of 'tommorrow' for example and can't take things like that into her consideration about whether to do something or not. I am worried if I just let her go for it she will end up really battered and worse for wear by the time she finishes childhood.

--- In [email protected], "nicola Phillips" <littlemissferrit@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Im Nicola! i have one son Teddie who is 2.7months and im am/will be unschooling ! we are English, living in England !!
>
> My question is - im finding myself saying 'Teddie LISTEN'
> 'Teddie NO' on a daily basis :-( i do not want to be this parent however how do you stop a child doing something that will end in danger if they dont 'listen' ? ? ?? Teddie is a very good child not willfull or badly behaved just wants to be doing things he isnt capable of. ie running down a hill far to steep that if he did run he'd end up scraping his face badly..
> i feel im loosing the close bond we had he is only 2yrs ahhh ahhh i used a sling for 18months then invested in a pushchair (mummy facing) i also managed to loose my sling when camping and havnt re invested in one.
>
> I'm also finding i just dont have time to fun things - i dont know why i seem to have lost something within myself. i cant even remember when i last got the paints out. our day isnt fun packed at te mo, its washing, cooking, errends,chores.... did make it swiming today and had a friend over for a play, but i didnt get done what i wanted and that was to start making xmas decorations with Teddie.
>
> my other ponder is how do you teach a child to read when unschooling ? ?/
> much love and thanks Nicola xx
>

Joyce Fetteroll

On Dec 8, 2009, at 11:11 PM, jodieandjemimah wrote:

> My daughter is really clever but not really up to the idea of
> 'tommorrow' for example and can't take things like that into her
> consideration about whether to do something or not. I am worried if
> I just let her go for it she will end up really battered and worse
> for wear by the time she finishes childhood.

She won't be 3 for her whole childhood ;-) Her understanding will
keep growing.

When I needed to convey tomorrow, I called it "after one big
sleep" (as opposed to naps).

Can you be more specific, though?

Your 3 Year Old (put out by the Gessell Institute, there's one for
each year) would probably be helpful, but the best book on your 3 yo
is herself ;-) The books might help you see patterns and give you
some insight on what's going on, but she's the best barometer of what
she, as a unique 3 yo, can handle.

Joyce

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Joyce Fetteroll

On Dec 8, 2009, at 8:52 AM, nicola Phillips wrote:

> currently i dont give him acsees to the laptop and he doesnt really
> watch T.V .. very very occasional -if im ill for example(i had
> swime flu for 2 weeks so t.v did go on then)somethimes of an eve if
> he has has a very busy day il pop it on the no adverts channel
> 'cbeebies' just under 5yrs kids tv channel.

It sounds like you view TV and the computer as bad for him, to be
allowed only in tiny doses and only when absolutely necessary.

You might want to rethink that. Unschooling is about expanding their
worlds. Limiting TV is as useful for learning as limiting books.

Sandra has a couple of great pages on TV and video games, with links
that can keep you busy for a long time! :-)

http://sandradodd.com/tv
http://sandradodd.com/videogames

There's some more information here:

http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/

down toward the bottom of the left side of the page.

Joyce

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Sandra Dodd

As this has been on the list for 11 hours (during which I was
blissfully asleep most of the time) I bet you've gotten some good
feedback already, but not having read the morning's flood of e-mail
yet, I'll answer as though I had been the first on the scene.

-=- What does unschooling have to say about the idea of developmental
steps and what a 3 year old can mentally manage or need to have
managed for them? -=-

Unschooling has nothing to say whatsoever. But individuals who have
unschooled might have lots to share that you could consider using with
your family.

Unschooling is about what to do in lieu of school. Three year olds
aren't required to be in school, and so unschooling won't much change
the fact that your daughter is three and would have been if you'd
never heard of unschooling.

Knowing about developmental steps is good for ANY parent, and
unschooling lives in the real world, not the smaller, artificial
school-world. So I recommend reading about three year olds and what
they understand, and paying really close attention to your daughter to
see what she really understands. Many parents will say "Tomorrow at
9:00 we're going to the zoo, okay?" and a young child says "okay" and
the parents then think she understands as much about the conversation
as they did. If someone were speaking German or French or Spanish to
me, and I was confused but really knew I just wanted them to stop
talking at me about what I only very vaguely understood, I could say
ja or oui or si. So don't count on a response to reflect clear or
mature understanding.

As I'm an adult, I need to be careful agreeing to things, lest I'm
committing myself to some contractual obligation. <g> NOone would
expect nor even allow a three year old to enter into a contract.

-=-My daughter is really clever but not really up to the idea of
'tommorrow' for example and can't take things like that into her
consideration about whether to do something or not.-=-

Even adults should qualify their agreements about tomorrow. It's
better to say "that would be nice" (a phrase I got from Marty, to use
on unreliable friends who promise to come over or do things for us),
or "I'll try to remember" or "Let's plan on that."

-=- I am worried if I just let her go for it she will end up really
battered and worse for wear by the time she finishes childhood.-=-

By "Let her go for it," in any sense that she might be beat up by what
she goes for, I think you might be thinking that unschoolers say "On
your mark, get set, UNSCHOOL!" and then just lean back on the wall and
watch them for the rest of their childhoods. You should do things
with her and for her all day every day as long as she lives at your
house!

Also, as to "by the time she finishes childhood," it would help you to
think of her life rather than her childhood. She is, right now, the
fullness of the old lady she will someday be. If you look at photos
of yourself in childhood, that's YOU you're looking at, not another
person, nor even another version of you. It's your bones, your skin,
your hair, your awareness, your growing body of knowledge and memory
and awareness.

If you treat her respectfully as a young version of her 30 year old
self, that might help you sort through this news that childhood isn't
separate from life, except as school and laws make it so.

Wow. That's a big answer. So here are some practical links, about
development and about being really clever:

http://sandradodd.com/intelligences (someone can be clever in one
area and not in others)
http://sandradodd.com/piaget

Sandra

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Jenny Cyphers

***What does unschooling have to say about the idea of developmental steps and what a 3 year old can mentally manage or need to have managed for them?***
 
In any age of development, parents should do for their kids what their kids cannot do for themselves and take into consideration what those things are.  If you have a 3 yr old that doesn't understand the idea of a "few" minutes, then it's up to the parents to compensate for that.
 
*** My daughter is really clever but not really up to the idea of 'tommorrow' for example and can't take things like that into her consideration about whether to do something or not.***
 
The passing of time is a pretty hard concept for most kids to get.  Time that counts is immediate in nature.  A year is forever to little kids.  A week can seem like a year.  An hour can feel like half the day.  Margaux, 8 yrs old, is just beginning to understand how long an hour is, or 1/2 an hour.  A 3 yr old is unlikely to really understand the concept of past present and future, tommorrow being the future.  Life is much more about the present, there here and now. 
 
 ***I am worried if I just let her go for it she will end up really battered and worse for wear by the time she finishes childhood.***
 
There are plenty of kids that are just "let go" into the world with little guidance or supervision.  To me, that is neglect.  Parents should BE with their kids and help them navigate the world, even parents who put their kids in school should do that.  Parents who homeschool do it even more and parents who unschool, are even more connected to the guidance of their children.
 
You could think of it as the sink or swim analogy... there are some parents who literally throw their kids in the water and tell them to swim, there are parents who put their kids in swimming classes and call it good, and there are parents who swim with their kids and help them learn to swim gradually and gently at the pace of the child, with or without swimming lessons.  I think unschooling parens would fall into the latter.





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Robin Bentley

>
> Also, as to "by the time she finishes childhood," it would help you to
> think of her life rather than her childhood. She is, right now, the
> fullness of the old lady she will someday be. If you look at photos
> of yourself in childhood, that's YOU you're looking at, not another
> person, nor even another version of you. It's your bones, your skin,
> your hair, your awareness, your growing body of knowledge and memory
> and awareness.
>
Sandra, you're waxing lyrical <g>.

I look at a photo of my mum when she was really small and I can see
the essence of who she was as an old lady.

It's especially poignant on the eve of her death two years ago. Thanks
for that.

Robin B.