struggles of will
troubadour4me
I am really bad with starting of a post. Hi everyone! Long time since i posted. There are some things going on that i need help with and the best way for me is to write it as it happened. many probably remember my son Lukas,is(8yo.)
We are still having a hard time getting him to stop doing certain things that are dangerous or a problem. Like the other day,workers were in our bathroom and he wanted to go in there. We told to he can't,lets do something or watch from over here. He went in. We told him to come out. He said no. We said he needs to get out of there,they are sawing and there's no room for him plus it's not safe. He came out yelling mommy's mean to me! The guy in the bathroom said"listen to your mom!" We told him before they started working not to go in there. Then a women friend(who was here too) said to me"Heather,if there isn't that parental authority now when he is a teenager and has that young man strength,you will have no control" so,I look bad to these people and i get a free traditional,mainstream, parenting lecture. It looks really bad for me when people are here. I don't get why he isn't as nice as he is when we are alone. I don't think i treat him any different,maybe i'm wrong but can't see how,maybe you can help.
He acts like a rebel when company is here and i can't figure out why. I pay just as much attention to him,show him affection,respect him but all hell breaks loose.
Then there is the climbing on the truck top and the shed. We don't want him on either. He refuses to stay off them! I did the explaining thing,danger talk,that didn't stop him. One day with my sciatica pain and all,I removed all the stuff he was using to get on the shed,i threw the wheelbarrow on top,the bins,all of it! He found a cooler to stand on! Every time he goes outside i find him on top of the shed...doing a dance sometimes! Of course i offered lots of other things to climb on,what am i supposed to do? Not let him go outside if he goes on it? Isn't that a punishment? I have gone out there with him and said very sternly:Get off the shed! Do not go on it!
Doesn't do any good. Sandra once said maybe i wasn't talking firm enough but believe me,I have been lately to no avail.
When those people were here Lukas also said some not too nice things,he said he wished i were dead.(because he couldn't get his way being in the bathroom) and curse words.So you can see how bad this looks about us and more important how we need to fix these things in our relationship.
Heather
We are still having a hard time getting him to stop doing certain things that are dangerous or a problem. Like the other day,workers were in our bathroom and he wanted to go in there. We told to he can't,lets do something or watch from over here. He went in. We told him to come out. He said no. We said he needs to get out of there,they are sawing and there's no room for him plus it's not safe. He came out yelling mommy's mean to me! The guy in the bathroom said"listen to your mom!" We told him before they started working not to go in there. Then a women friend(who was here too) said to me"Heather,if there isn't that parental authority now when he is a teenager and has that young man strength,you will have no control" so,I look bad to these people and i get a free traditional,mainstream, parenting lecture. It looks really bad for me when people are here. I don't get why he isn't as nice as he is when we are alone. I don't think i treat him any different,maybe i'm wrong but can't see how,maybe you can help.
He acts like a rebel when company is here and i can't figure out why. I pay just as much attention to him,show him affection,respect him but all hell breaks loose.
Then there is the climbing on the truck top and the shed. We don't want him on either. He refuses to stay off them! I did the explaining thing,danger talk,that didn't stop him. One day with my sciatica pain and all,I removed all the stuff he was using to get on the shed,i threw the wheelbarrow on top,the bins,all of it! He found a cooler to stand on! Every time he goes outside i find him on top of the shed...doing a dance sometimes! Of course i offered lots of other things to climb on,what am i supposed to do? Not let him go outside if he goes on it? Isn't that a punishment? I have gone out there with him and said very sternly:Get off the shed! Do not go on it!
Doesn't do any good. Sandra once said maybe i wasn't talking firm enough but believe me,I have been lately to no avail.
When those people were here Lukas also said some not too nice things,he said he wished i were dead.(because he couldn't get his way being in the bathroom) and curse words.So you can see how bad this looks about us and more important how we need to fix these things in our relationship.
Heather
Sandra Dodd
Heather, your stories have always baffled me. Are there other
unschoolers near you who might be able to come by and see what they
think, or other adults friends who could talk to Luke about it to see
what his deal is?
-=-Doesn't do any good. Sandra once said maybe i wasn't talking firm
enough but believe me,I have been lately to no avail.-=-
If you've only started lately to be firm, maybe he just doesn't
believe you.
When you have workers over, could you send him to someone else's house
or out with your husband? I don't know what to say about the shed and
the truck. With our kids "GET DOWN" or "Don't" worked. I don't know
what dynamic is so different that is causing Luke to ignore you.
If he's stuck home with nothing more exciting to do that climb on the
truck, that's a problem. And I can totally understand him wanting to
see what people are doing who are working on the bathroom, but it's
totally not okay even if you had said it was okay for him to be in
there while they're working with power tools.
-=-Every time he goes outside i find him on top of the shed...-=-
Either this is an exaggeration or he needs LOTS more things to do
outside!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unschoolers near you who might be able to come by and see what they
think, or other adults friends who could talk to Luke about it to see
what his deal is?
-=-Doesn't do any good. Sandra once said maybe i wasn't talking firm
enough but believe me,I have been lately to no avail.-=-
If you've only started lately to be firm, maybe he just doesn't
believe you.
When you have workers over, could you send him to someone else's house
or out with your husband? I don't know what to say about the shed and
the truck. With our kids "GET DOWN" or "Don't" worked. I don't know
what dynamic is so different that is causing Luke to ignore you.
If he's stuck home with nothing more exciting to do that climb on the
truck, that's a problem. And I can totally understand him wanting to
see what people are doing who are working on the bathroom, but it's
totally not okay even if you had said it was okay for him to be in
there while they're working with power tools.
-=-Every time he goes outside i find him on top of the shed...-=-
Either this is an exaggeration or he needs LOTS more things to do
outside!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn L. Coburn
<<<< With our kids "GET DOWN" or "Don't" worked. I don't know
choices and desires.
I agree with the idea of having him be out of the house someplace else, if
it is really important that he not be in the bathroom.
OTOH, as I know with Jayn, I tend to assume that activities are less safe
than they are *for her* with her level of skills, balance, observation and
self knowledge, AND I tend to think that she is bothering other people more
than she actually is.
Why can't he be on the shed, again? He doesn't seem to be falling off. It
seems like you keep on telling him something is dangerous but his repeated
experience is that it is not at all dangerous. (More to the story??)
It sounds like he thinks the real reason you want him to comply is "because
I said so", and he doesn't think that's a good enough reason.
Maybe the thing to do is find ways to make the shed and the truck more safe
for climbing - such as clearing away any sharp objects that poke up,
reinforcing the roof - I don't know, whatever it is about the truck or the
shed that makes you believe it is dangerous to him.
In terms of the workers in the bathroom...Jayn is often very interested in
what adults who work with their hands are doing. Perhaps it would be better
coming from the workers there.
I know they are probably paid by the hour, but what if one of the workers
took just a few minutes to explain to him what they were doing there,
perhaps how the tools work and why they should be handled with care, maybe
even gave him some kind of small helping task that might take him outside of
the bathroom work area. And allow the worker to tell his "new apprentice"
when it is time to split because they need room to saw.
Jayn was truly awful to me often when she was 8. She has become kinder over
the last year and a half. Now she has a genuine desire to be kind and sweet,
which only sometimes is overcome by frustration, impatience or hunger. She
wants to hugged when she is angry.
I have told Jayn that she is embarrassing me and herself when she speaks to
me in ways that are unacceptable in public. It is hard to keep focussing on
your child instead of the judging watching eyes of other people.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
> what dynamic is so different that is causing Luke to ignore you. >>>>He's not ignoring her. He's making a concious decision to defend his own
choices and desires.
I agree with the idea of having him be out of the house someplace else, if
it is really important that he not be in the bathroom.
OTOH, as I know with Jayn, I tend to assume that activities are less safe
than they are *for her* with her level of skills, balance, observation and
self knowledge, AND I tend to think that she is bothering other people more
than she actually is.
Why can't he be on the shed, again? He doesn't seem to be falling off. It
seems like you keep on telling him something is dangerous but his repeated
experience is that it is not at all dangerous. (More to the story??)
It sounds like he thinks the real reason you want him to comply is "because
I said so", and he doesn't think that's a good enough reason.
Maybe the thing to do is find ways to make the shed and the truck more safe
for climbing - such as clearing away any sharp objects that poke up,
reinforcing the roof - I don't know, whatever it is about the truck or the
shed that makes you believe it is dangerous to him.
In terms of the workers in the bathroom...Jayn is often very interested in
what adults who work with their hands are doing. Perhaps it would be better
coming from the workers there.
I know they are probably paid by the hour, but what if one of the workers
took just a few minutes to explain to him what they were doing there,
perhaps how the tools work and why they should be handled with care, maybe
even gave him some kind of small helping task that might take him outside of
the bathroom work area. And allow the worker to tell his "new apprentice"
when it is time to split because they need room to saw.
Jayn was truly awful to me often when she was 8. She has become kinder over
the last year and a half. Now she has a genuine desire to be kind and sweet,
which only sometimes is overcome by frustration, impatience or hunger. She
wants to hugged when she is angry.
I have told Jayn that she is embarrassing me and herself when she speaks to
me in ways that are unacceptable in public. It is hard to keep focussing on
your child instead of the judging watching eyes of other people.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
Sandra Dodd
-=-I have told Jayn that she is embarrassing me and herself when she
speaks to
me in ways that are unacceptable in public.-=-
I understand that and I don't disagree, but it reminds me of the
question of if a tree falls in the forest, does it makes a sound? Or
the more related but less common question of whether a hermit can
practice virtue.
What if there were no "in public," and a parent and child were living
in isolation, far from witnesses. Would there be any harm then in
harsh words?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
speaks to
me in ways that are unacceptable in public.-=-
I understand that and I don't disagree, but it reminds me of the
question of if a tree falls in the forest, does it makes a sound? Or
the more related but less common question of whether a hermit can
practice virtue.
What if there were no "in public," and a parent and child were living
in isolation, far from witnesses. Would there be any harm then in
harsh words?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn L. Coburn
<<< > What if there were no "in public," and a parent and child were living
"embarrassing" part. Most of the harm is to my own calmness. I'm conciously
striving to stay calm, instead of just being calm.
Dealing with her moments of anger and meanness in private is a different
process without adding people staring at her and at me. Silent looks and
hugs to help her center herself again (and then she will apologize) work
better than any words or instructions or warnings - for Jayn. YMMV with your
specific kids (ie the general "your", not Sandra).
Honestly Jayn is rarely rude in public situations especially as she gets
older, but that was part of the problem the OP was apparently having, and
those particular words might be helpful in the moment (or not).
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
> in isolation, far from witnesses. Would there be any harm then inThere is harm, but it is personal rather than specifically the
> harsh words? >>>>
"embarrassing" part. Most of the harm is to my own calmness. I'm conciously
striving to stay calm, instead of just being calm.
Dealing with her moments of anger and meanness in private is a different
process without adding people staring at her and at me. Silent looks and
hugs to help her center herself again (and then she will apologize) work
better than any words or instructions or warnings - for Jayn. YMMV with your
specific kids (ie the general "your", not Sandra).
Honestly Jayn is rarely rude in public situations especially as she gets
older, but that was part of the problem the OP was apparently having, and
those particular words might be helpful in the moment (or not).
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
I have followed Heather's post about Lucas for years now and I can say is that he must be twins with my nephew! I have never heard of two children that sound so much alike.
He is also 8 years old.
Fortunately my sister has been pulled him out of school August of last year and has been unschooling him since then.
She reads this list but does not post. She loves the advice here and Sandra and has "stolen" my book Moving a Puddle before I could read it all myself - hey Bella I need it back!
Anyways back to our feature presentation...<BWG>
Patrick is a super smart, sensitive, energetic, physical, don't-try-to-boss-me-around-or-control-me sweet kid.
Needles to say school was NOT good for him and in a coupoe weeks in first grade they wanted him on medication.
I am going to write some observations I have made of him.
What I have noticed is that he likes to be in charge, he is very curious and he needs a lot of physical activities and a lot of my sister presence to facilitate in certain situations.
He is at the same time very sensitive and polite but when he is frustrated with something or not feeling heard he can call my sister names.
He is impulsive but that has really improved in the last year.
She keeps him out of situations that are too hard for him too handle.
She is really careful not to take him places she knows he cannot handle or he would be bored with.
He has a need to know everything that is going on. So if something was being done in the bathroom she would have asked the guys to show him and maybe taken him out to a park or somewhere else if it was needed.
But usually once his curiosity is satiated then he moves on.
She has a trampoline in her living room. She buys toys on yard sales, thrift stores or dollar stores so if they break its not a big deal.
He is a dare devil and very physical. He masters difficult physical challenges easy. Since he was little he would be climbing on stuff and he was told a lot to come down that it was dangerous. He figured out they were wrong and ALWAYS did it anyway. They have somewhat relaxed about it and he has also not tried to find more crazy things to do once they relaxed. They have built a " fort/tree house/club house for him in the backyard and she takes him to the park a lot weather permitting. He still needs lots of things to do physically.
He hates feeling controlled or bossed around.
An example of how I deal with him is this: There were a group of kids here playing and they were starting to get rough with some of our toys ( Patrick really likes to bang and brake things) so I walked in and told everyone not to do it and or to go play with something else . I knew Patrick was the one who started it but I called him and asked him if he could please keep and eye so that no one was banging the toys. I asked him to watch and come get me if needed . He loves to be the one that is "trusted" to do things like that. He was great.
He will play with my 3 year old daughter so gentle and nice but he and my son fight a lot so I need to be there with them.
My sister keeps playdates short. When kids start fightin its time to go home for her or me when visiting.
Sometimes they can play well for hours , something after just 30 minutes it is time to go.
I agree with Robyn about facitlitating and keeping him out of situations that he would not do well.
Maybe my sister will chime in but with Patrick and another younger boy I doubt she has much time to write at all!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
He is also 8 years old.
Fortunately my sister has been pulled him out of school August of last year and has been unschooling him since then.
She reads this list but does not post. She loves the advice here and Sandra and has "stolen" my book Moving a Puddle before I could read it all myself - hey Bella I need it back!
Anyways back to our feature presentation...<BWG>
Patrick is a super smart, sensitive, energetic, physical, don't-try-to-boss-me-around-or-control-me sweet kid.
Needles to say school was NOT good for him and in a coupoe weeks in first grade they wanted him on medication.
I am going to write some observations I have made of him.
What I have noticed is that he likes to be in charge, he is very curious and he needs a lot of physical activities and a lot of my sister presence to facilitate in certain situations.
He is at the same time very sensitive and polite but when he is frustrated with something or not feeling heard he can call my sister names.
He is impulsive but that has really improved in the last year.
She keeps him out of situations that are too hard for him too handle.
She is really careful not to take him places she knows he cannot handle or he would be bored with.
He has a need to know everything that is going on. So if something was being done in the bathroom she would have asked the guys to show him and maybe taken him out to a park or somewhere else if it was needed.
But usually once his curiosity is satiated then he moves on.
She has a trampoline in her living room. She buys toys on yard sales, thrift stores or dollar stores so if they break its not a big deal.
He is a dare devil and very physical. He masters difficult physical challenges easy. Since he was little he would be climbing on stuff and he was told a lot to come down that it was dangerous. He figured out they were wrong and ALWAYS did it anyway. They have somewhat relaxed about it and he has also not tried to find more crazy things to do once they relaxed. They have built a " fort/tree house/club house for him in the backyard and she takes him to the park a lot weather permitting. He still needs lots of things to do physically.
He hates feeling controlled or bossed around.
An example of how I deal with him is this: There were a group of kids here playing and they were starting to get rough with some of our toys ( Patrick really likes to bang and brake things) so I walked in and told everyone not to do it and or to go play with something else . I knew Patrick was the one who started it but I called him and asked him if he could please keep and eye so that no one was banging the toys. I asked him to watch and come get me if needed . He loves to be the one that is "trusted" to do things like that. He was great.
He will play with my 3 year old daughter so gentle and nice but he and my son fight a lot so I need to be there with them.
My sister keeps playdates short. When kids start fightin its time to go home for her or me when visiting.
Sometimes they can play well for hours , something after just 30 minutes it is time to go.
I agree with Robyn about facitlitating and keeping him out of situations that he would not do well.
Maybe my sister will chime in but with Patrick and another younger boy I doubt she has much time to write at all!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-
Honestly Jayn is rarely rude in public situations especially as she gets
older, but that was part of the problem the OP was apparently having,
and
those particular words might be helpful in the moment (or not).-=-
Oh, true. That the kid was verbal in front of workmen.
My comment was moving away from the point and not toward, then. Sorry.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Honestly Jayn is rarely rude in public situations especially as she gets
older, but that was part of the problem the OP was apparently having,
and
those particular words might be helpful in the moment (or not).-=-
Oh, true. That the kid was verbal in front of workmen.
My comment was moving away from the point and not toward, then. Sorry.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
troubadour4me
Yes, There are others who do speak with him often. He was outside later that day and my friends mom was watching him climb on my truck...on the top which is a old camper top,made of fiberglass or something...i think and she said"oh,i can't watch" to him and he came over to us and she said"ya know Lukas,if you fall through the top of that,you'll get cut up and down your body and oooh it will hurt bad"
His reply: that won't happen to me! so yeah there are others but i could find some unschoolers and need too even if money to travel to town is tight. I am baffled too because when it's me and him he is so sweet! We are like saying please,thank you,i'm sorry to each other for little things all day and he's like:okay mommy, if i ask him for something and hardly any conflict. That's why i don't know if i'm saying or doing the wrong thing. When i tell him to get down he laughs at me or says no. of course people have said because i don't use time outs that's why he doesn't respect me.
We have been going somewhere, doing something to get out of here,coming home to play gamecube,wrestlers or watch a video that we got from the library.so yes even going to the playground today and him making a new friend and me a mommy friend was cool!
~~ Either this is an exaggeration or he needs LOTS more things to do
His reply: that won't happen to me! so yeah there are others but i could find some unschoolers and need too even if money to travel to town is tight. I am baffled too because when it's me and him he is so sweet! We are like saying please,thank you,i'm sorry to each other for little things all day and he's like:okay mommy, if i ask him for something and hardly any conflict. That's why i don't know if i'm saying or doing the wrong thing. When i tell him to get down he laughs at me or says no. of course people have said because i don't use time outs that's why he doesn't respect me.
We have been going somewhere, doing something to get out of here,coming home to play gamecube,wrestlers or watch a video that we got from the library.so yes even going to the playground today and him making a new friend and me a mommy friend was cool!
~~ Either this is an exaggeration or he needs LOTS more things to do
> outside!~~this is a good point because he goes outside by himself now(except when the pool is up) and i have stopped going out with him. I just asked him if he wants me to play out there with him and he said yes!
>
Jenny Cyphers
***We are still having a hard time getting him to stop doing certain things that are dangerous or a problem. Like the other day,workers were in our bathroom and he wanted to go in there. ***
***Then there is the climbing on the truck top and the shed. We don't want him on either. He refuses to stay off them!***
It occurs to me that he may enjoy building and using a fort or tree house. Something that he can use tools to make and one on one interaction with an adult, and a sturdy and safe place that he can be in and climb on.
Or, if that's too much to think about or do, there are workshop things at places like Home Depot. My kids have always appreciated power tools and any kind of tool that adults use to make or build things. They are interesting.
As to the climbing, I'd find a lot of opportunities for climbing. Chamille, for a while, liked to climb up onto the roof of the house and we left a ladder out leaning onto the roof for her to do that. I put it away when all the neighbor kids kept asking to climb up too. While she was up there she did the valuable task of removing moss.
I've seen a really little kid climb up very tall trees. It's scary to watch, but he was very good at it. I asked his parents how they could be so calm about it, and they said that he'd been doing it for so long that they'd gotten used to his ability, he was about 6 or 7 tops. He was like a little monkey and could easily get himself up very high and navigate back down.
Kids can do some pretty scary things. I remember navigating really big jetties when I was little, leaping from rock to rock with deep crevices in between, often barefoot. My dad would walk out on them with me, but my mom rarely did, and I'm sure it's because it scared her to watch me. The longer and more out there the better! I liked getting way out to feel like I was in the middle of the ocean. I remember wondering what would happen if I fell, and felt certain, I'd survive, but as an adult looking back, I doubt I would've with the very cold and rough water dashing me against rocks, very far from shore. I never fell, not once, not even a scrape, I was very sure footed out there on the rocks.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
***Then there is the climbing on the truck top and the shed. We don't want him on either. He refuses to stay off them!***
It occurs to me that he may enjoy building and using a fort or tree house. Something that he can use tools to make and one on one interaction with an adult, and a sturdy and safe place that he can be in and climb on.
Or, if that's too much to think about or do, there are workshop things at places like Home Depot. My kids have always appreciated power tools and any kind of tool that adults use to make or build things. They are interesting.
As to the climbing, I'd find a lot of opportunities for climbing. Chamille, for a while, liked to climb up onto the roof of the house and we left a ladder out leaning onto the roof for her to do that. I put it away when all the neighbor kids kept asking to climb up too. While she was up there she did the valuable task of removing moss.
I've seen a really little kid climb up very tall trees. It's scary to watch, but he was very good at it. I asked his parents how they could be so calm about it, and they said that he'd been doing it for so long that they'd gotten used to his ability, he was about 6 or 7 tops. He was like a little monkey and could easily get himself up very high and navigate back down.
Kids can do some pretty scary things. I remember navigating really big jetties when I was little, leaping from rock to rock with deep crevices in between, often barefoot. My dad would walk out on them with me, but my mom rarely did, and I'm sure it's because it scared her to watch me. The longer and more out there the better! I liked getting way out to feel like I was in the middle of the ocean. I remember wondering what would happen if I fell, and felt certain, I'd survive, but as an adult looking back, I doubt I would've with the very cold and rough water dashing me against rocks, very far from shore. I never fell, not once, not even a scrape, I was very sure footed out there on the rocks.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
emiLy Q.
> -=-I have told Jayn that she is embarrassing me and herself when sheWe pick our noses at home and in the car. It's not nice to do that in front
> speaks to
> me in ways that are unacceptable in public.-=-
>
> I understand that and I don't disagree, but it reminds me of the
> question of if a tree falls in the forest, does it makes a sound? Or
> the more related but less common question of whether a hermit can
> practice virtue.
>
> What if there were no "in public," and a parent and child were living
> in isolation, far from witnesses. Would there be any harm then in
> harsh words?
of others, but nose picking must be done sometime and somewhere!
Being mean doesn't need to be done, but it does happen. I'd much rather
argue with my husband or child at home (or in the car) than in a store or at
a family gathering. It makes others uncomfortable.
-emiLy, mom to Delia (6) & Henry (2.5)
Babies are BORN potty trained!
http://www.BornPottyTrained.com
Joyce Fetteroll
On Dec 6, 2009, at 8:54 PM, troubadour4me wrote:
It could be he feels you getting stressed anticipating how he'll act
and how the moms will react.
It could be he feels less in charge of his world when others are in
the house.
Moms who teach Sunday school say their own kids are the ones who are
the worst in class. Having company over is different, but there might
be some element of that dynamic.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I don't get why he isn't as nice as he is when we are alone.It could be he feels the change in atmosphere.
It could be he feels you getting stressed anticipating how he'll act
and how the moms will react.
It could be he feels less in charge of his world when others are in
the house.
Moms who teach Sunday school say their own kids are the ones who are
the worst in class. Having company over is different, but there might
be some element of that dynamic.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
duckgirl01
> We are still having a hard time getting him to stop doing certain things that are dangerous >I find that I have to really remind myself, now that I'm adult, to honestly judge the safety of certain things. Just now I remembered something my father and I used to do when I was about 5 years old: He used to take me to the train tracks in the local town, where there were boxcars on a side track. We would both climb the ladder on the side of the boxcars onto the roof of the boxcar. That's very high up! Then he would help me to jump from boxcar to boxcar along the top of the cars (He was really supervising us during this part). Now, my mother would have never done anything like this with me because it would have scared her too much. But now that I'm reflecting on it, my relationship with my father was a million times better than with my mother. I really trusted him, and more importantly, he trusted me back. When something was *really* dangerous, I took him seriously.
Trish
Sandra Dodd
-=-Yes, There are others who do speak with him often. He was outside
later that day and my friends mom was watching him climb on my
truck...on the top which is a old camper top,made of fiberglass or
something...i think and she said"oh,i can't watch" to him and he came
over to us and she said"ya know Lukas,if you fall through the top of
that,you'll get cut up and down your body and oooh it will hurt bad"-=-
I didn't mean someone else to add dire warnings and directions.
I meant someone who knows your family dynamics who could be a real
sounding board for Lukas, or who might flat out ask him how he feels
about being home and what would make it work better, and maybe advise
him on behaving in ways that would make the family dynamics better.
Because I'm not there and I can't envision the house and yard and the
parents' voices and Lukas, I am clueless. If there are people who DO
know you who are NOT clueless, maybe ask for help.
-=-We have been going somewhere, doing something to get out of
here,coming home to play gamecube,wrestlers or watch a video that we
got from the library.so yes even going to the playground today and him
making a new friend and me a mommy friend was cool!-=-
Good! You should keep doing that.
-=-~~ Either this is an exaggeration or he needs LOTS more things to do
when the pool is up) and i have stopped going out with him. I just
asked him if he wants me to play out there with him and he said yes!-=-
He's eight and has only just lately begun going outside by himself?
Do you live in a horribly dangerous neighborhood? Are there snakes
and alligators out there?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
later that day and my friends mom was watching him climb on my
truck...on the top which is a old camper top,made of fiberglass or
something...i think and she said"oh,i can't watch" to him and he came
over to us and she said"ya know Lukas,if you fall through the top of
that,you'll get cut up and down your body and oooh it will hurt bad"-=-
I didn't mean someone else to add dire warnings and directions.
I meant someone who knows your family dynamics who could be a real
sounding board for Lukas, or who might flat out ask him how he feels
about being home and what would make it work better, and maybe advise
him on behaving in ways that would make the family dynamics better.
Because I'm not there and I can't envision the house and yard and the
parents' voices and Lukas, I am clueless. If there are people who DO
know you who are NOT clueless, maybe ask for help.
-=-We have been going somewhere, doing something to get out of
here,coming home to play gamecube,wrestlers or watch a video that we
got from the library.so yes even going to the playground today and him
making a new friend and me a mommy friend was cool!-=-
Good! You should keep doing that.
-=-~~ Either this is an exaggeration or he needs LOTS more things to do
> outside!~~this is a good point because he goes outside by himself now(except
when the pool is up) and i have stopped going out with him. I just
asked him if he wants me to play out there with him and he said yes!-=-
He's eight and has only just lately begun going outside by himself?
Do you live in a horribly dangerous neighborhood? Are there snakes
and alligators out there?
Sandra
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Sandra Dodd
emiLy wrote:
-=-We pick our noses at home and in the car. It's not nice to do that
in front
of others, but nose picking must be done sometime and somewhere!
-=-Being mean doesn't need to be done, but it does happen. I'd much
rather
argue with my husband or child at home (or in the car) than in a store
or at
a family gathering. It makes others uncomfortable.-=-
I get it. Thanks.
Yesterday a friend of mine was here and he was visibly nervous at an
exchange Keith and I had, and I didn't want to make him nervous. He
realized we were joking and he became softer and more relaxed, but
I've known him since we were teens; I've known him longer than I've
known Keith, and I recognized his change of posture as an alert kind
of fear, and he would have jumped in and tried to make peace, or maybe
left the room, if he hadn't figured out Keith and I were just playing.
Sandra
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-=-We pick our noses at home and in the car. It's not nice to do that
in front
of others, but nose picking must be done sometime and somewhere!
-=-Being mean doesn't need to be done, but it does happen. I'd much
rather
argue with my husband or child at home (or in the car) than in a store
or at
a family gathering. It makes others uncomfortable.-=-
I get it. Thanks.
Yesterday a friend of mine was here and he was visibly nervous at an
exchange Keith and I had, and I didn't want to make him nervous. He
realized we were joking and he became softer and more relaxed, but
I've known him since we were teens; I've known him longer than I've
known Keith, and I recognized his change of posture as an alert kind
of fear, and he would have jumped in and tried to make peace, or maybe
left the room, if he hadn't figured out Keith and I were just playing.
Sandra
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troubadour4me
What does one say when they get these lectures,warnings from people? I don't ask for thoughts at all.
I don't look at them and roll my eyes at his behaviour or give them looks looking for help. I get alot of unasked for advice. Unless someone is on the same page with parenting,i am not going to talk about my kid because of all the comments i got/get. The same woman went on to tell me a "story"here in my living room,about her friend who had two kids and the one who she made"mind" her grew up grew but the other one got in trouble.
I felt like i was only a obligation of politeness to her when she was telling me this because her husband and son was working on our bathroom...for free. so i didn't say anything. I assumed she told me the story because her daughter(my friend)probably discussed with her how they see Lukas act. What does one say anyway?
I know your right in finding some other/s who homeschool/unschool who can help give me or Lukas ideas! I will!
~~~He's eight and has only just lately begun going outside by himself?
I don't look at them and roll my eyes at his behaviour or give them looks looking for help. I get alot of unasked for advice. Unless someone is on the same page with parenting,i am not going to talk about my kid because of all the comments i got/get. The same woman went on to tell me a "story"here in my living room,about her friend who had two kids and the one who she made"mind" her grew up grew but the other one got in trouble.
I felt like i was only a obligation of politeness to her when she was telling me this because her husband and son was working on our bathroom...for free. so i didn't say anything. I assumed she told me the story because her daughter(my friend)probably discussed with her how they see Lukas act. What does one say anyway?
I know your right in finding some other/s who homeschool/unschool who can help give me or Lukas ideas! I will!
~~~He's eight and has only just lately begun going outside by himself?
> Do you live in a horribly dangerous neighborhood? Are there snakes
> and alligators out there?~~~NO,lol. Hard to explain,he's been going out alone since he was 6 or 7 but the pool came down in Oct. It stays warmer here...longer usually. Now we have days like a desert...hot and cold nights. There are days with the a/c on and heat at night!
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-I felt like i was only a obligation of politeness to her when she
was telling me this because her husband and son was working on our
bathroom...for free. so i didn't say anything. I assumed she told me
the story because her daughter(my friend)probably discussed with her
how they see Lukas act. What does one say anyway?-=-
The way women learn about mothering and childbirth and where to find
food is from talking with other women. She was doing for you what
people on this list are doing for you--describing what they've seen
and what they know about kids and behavior.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
was telling me this because her husband and son was working on our
bathroom...for free. so i didn't say anything. I assumed she told me
the story because her daughter(my friend)probably discussed with her
how they see Lukas act. What does one say anyway?-=-
The way women learn about mothering and childbirth and where to find
food is from talking with other women. She was doing for you what
people on this list are doing for you--describing what they've seen
and what they know about kids and behavior.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
While reading this thread I was thinking how dangerous is the shed? My 5 yo likes to climb on my van. I do not think he will fall or get hurt. My concern is more that I do not want him to damage my paint or window wipers. It is my car and I like it and do not want it damaged. That is what I tell him. Telling him it is dangerous probably would not make much sense to him. Especially after successfully climbing on it already. Potentially damaging it makes sense to him because we have already had to repair a broken windshield wiper. Maybe stop telling him it is dangerous and tell him why YOU do not want him to climb on it other then the danger.
Tiffani
Tiffani
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandra Dodd" <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, December 7, 2009 4:54:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: struggles of will
-=-I felt like i was only a obligation of politeness to her when she
was telling me this because her husband and son was working on our
bathroom...for free. so i didn't say anything. I assumed she told me
the story because her daughter(my friend)probably discussed with her
how they see Lukas act. What does one say anyway?-=-
The way women learn about mothering and childbirth and where to find
food is from talking with other women. She was doing for you what
people on this list are doing for you--describing what they've seen
and what they know about kids and behavior.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
thecugals
I know this topic is kind of old, so I hope my responding now will still be useful. I've been thinking about the description of your son a lot because he sounds very similar to my brother.
When my brother was only a toddler, he managed to climb on top of the roof (without a ladder). When my mom and uncle heard him up there, they walked outside, and my uncle turned around just as he said, "Uncle Tommy, catch!" Then he jumped. Luckily he WAS caught.
He also ran through a sliding glass door 3 different times in 3 different houses. The first time nearly killed him because there was no safety glass. He was 4, I think.
There are lots more examples I could give from his childhood, but my point is that he had extremely high levels of energy and curiosity, and somewhat lower levels of empathy and impulse control than my other brother and me. He did poorly at school, even though he was smart. He was always getting into some kind of trouble, and finally, as a young adult, he ended up in prison for about a year. It wasn't until then that he decided to do something constructive with his life. I'm happy to say that nowadays he works as a diver and underwater welder, which suits him perfectly because it's a dangerous and physically demanding job. But even though he's 41 now, he still tends to get into trouble if work isn't keeping him busy enough (crashing his dirt bike, etc.). He told me recently that he gets nervous when he sits for too long. Even now he needs more stimulation and physical activity than the rest of us.
Please understand that I'm not suggesting your son could be headed for prison. But I've been wondering about my brother my whole life.
When I was young, I thought he was just a bad kid. As I got older, I realized that he was internally driven to use his body and mind in very active, intense ways, and I saw that really, he had some good qualities, and I began to wonder what my mom could have done differently (and what any parent could do) to prevent the trouble he got into. Here are my theories, for what they are worth: 1)Try to understand what his physical and other needs really are, and do your best to meet them. In other words, my brother needed to be physically and mentally challenged, much more so than any other person I've ever known, and he needed to have his energies channeled in positive directions. He was the school chess champion in sixth grade. What if my mom had found a chess club or just some other people he couldn't beat, and he had to work at that? Might that have kept him out of trouble for a while? 2)Don't expect him to be as compliant as other kids. If there's something he must not do, try to keep him away from that thing. 3) Help him to see how his actions affect others.
I think unschooling is THE way to go with kids like my brother. I wish he had had the same opportunity your son has, I applaud you for doing the extra work of attending to his needs, and I beg you to get as much support and rest as you can. I think your job is more difficult than the average parent's.
Beth
When my brother was only a toddler, he managed to climb on top of the roof (without a ladder). When my mom and uncle heard him up there, they walked outside, and my uncle turned around just as he said, "Uncle Tommy, catch!" Then he jumped. Luckily he WAS caught.
He also ran through a sliding glass door 3 different times in 3 different houses. The first time nearly killed him because there was no safety glass. He was 4, I think.
There are lots more examples I could give from his childhood, but my point is that he had extremely high levels of energy and curiosity, and somewhat lower levels of empathy and impulse control than my other brother and me. He did poorly at school, even though he was smart. He was always getting into some kind of trouble, and finally, as a young adult, he ended up in prison for about a year. It wasn't until then that he decided to do something constructive with his life. I'm happy to say that nowadays he works as a diver and underwater welder, which suits him perfectly because it's a dangerous and physically demanding job. But even though he's 41 now, he still tends to get into trouble if work isn't keeping him busy enough (crashing his dirt bike, etc.). He told me recently that he gets nervous when he sits for too long. Even now he needs more stimulation and physical activity than the rest of us.
Please understand that I'm not suggesting your son could be headed for prison. But I've been wondering about my brother my whole life.
When I was young, I thought he was just a bad kid. As I got older, I realized that he was internally driven to use his body and mind in very active, intense ways, and I saw that really, he had some good qualities, and I began to wonder what my mom could have done differently (and what any parent could do) to prevent the trouble he got into. Here are my theories, for what they are worth: 1)Try to understand what his physical and other needs really are, and do your best to meet them. In other words, my brother needed to be physically and mentally challenged, much more so than any other person I've ever known, and he needed to have his energies channeled in positive directions. He was the school chess champion in sixth grade. What if my mom had found a chess club or just some other people he couldn't beat, and he had to work at that? Might that have kept him out of trouble for a while? 2)Don't expect him to be as compliant as other kids. If there's something he must not do, try to keep him away from that thing. 3) Help him to see how his actions affect others.
I think unschooling is THE way to go with kids like my brother. I wish he had had the same opportunity your son has, I applaud you for doing the extra work of attending to his needs, and I beg you to get as much support and rest as you can. I think your job is more difficult than the average parent's.
Beth