Unschooling and Standardized testing
toastmastermom
In our state we are required to have the kids take a standardized test every other year (3, 5, 7,9, and 11). This is our year (first time) and I'm a bit nervous for them. I'm wondering if I need to take a few weeks to teach my kids how to take a test, to make sure they know how to fill in a bubble and how to differentiate between a #2 and a #3 pencil (rolling my eyes).
Have you had your kids take a standardized test? How did they do? Did you prepare ahead of time.
TIA for suggestions on how to relax through this process. It's difficult enough to remain calm when I get put through the ringer about my schooling choice. I want to be sure that I keep my trust in the learning process of my children, rather than the "school's way" and beating the information into their heads.
Have you had your kids take a standardized test? How did they do? Did you prepare ahead of time.
TIA for suggestions on how to relax through this process. It's difficult enough to remain calm when I get put through the ringer about my schooling choice. I want to be sure that I keep my trust in the learning process of my children, rather than the "school's way" and beating the information into their heads.
alexandriapalonia
We're required, in our state, to test or assess every year. Because I don't want to involve certificated teachers in our lives, we choose to be in compliance with our laws by using the standardized tests. (Generally, we've used the CAT-Survey available from Seton Hall, so the scores are sent only to us).
We do not prepare for the tests. We use the test that corresponds with the age-grade that our children would be in were they in school (age minus 5).
We generally stick the scores away in the file cabinet when they come in, and sometimes don't bother to open them. We're required to test, not to submit scores, or pay any attention to them. So that's what we do.
Curiousity got the best of me the first few years, so I snuck a peek. I'm sometimes really surprised that they score so well, and I'm often surprised when they "clean up" on subjects I didn't think they knew anything about.
Andrea
We do not prepare for the tests. We use the test that corresponds with the age-grade that our children would be in were they in school (age minus 5).
We generally stick the scores away in the file cabinet when they come in, and sometimes don't bother to open them. We're required to test, not to submit scores, or pay any attention to them. So that's what we do.
Curiousity got the best of me the first few years, so I snuck a peek. I'm sometimes really surprised that they score so well, and I'm often surprised when they "clean up" on subjects I didn't think they knew anything about.
Andrea
> In our state we are required to have the kids take a standardized test every other year (3, 5, 7,9, and 11). This is our year (first time) and I'm a bit nervous for them. I'm wondering if I need to take a few weeks to teach my kids how to take a test, to make sure they know how to fill in a bubble and how to differentiate between a #2 and a #3 pencil (rolling my eyes).
>
> Have you had your kids take a standardized test? How did they do? Did you prepare ahead of time.
>
> TIA for suggestions on how to relax through this process. It's difficult enough to remain calm when I get put through the ringer about my schooling choice. I want to be sure that I keep my trust in the learning process of my children, rather than the "school's way" and beating the information into their heads.
>
Beth
+*+*TIA for suggestions on how to relax through this process. It's
difficult enough to remain calm when I get put through the ringer about my
schooling choice. I want to be sure that I keep my trust in the learning
process of my children, rather than the "school's way" and beating the
information into their heads. +*+*
Do you know what kind of scores they are required to achieve? In our state
they only need to score in the 25th percentile or better to be considered
adequate. And if they do happen to score below the 25th percentile, we
would be on "probation" for the following year and have to show a certain
level of improvement on the next test.
The whole testing and measuring up process generally sounds much scarier
than it actually is.
Beth D
difficult enough to remain calm when I get put through the ringer about my
schooling choice. I want to be sure that I keep my trust in the learning
process of my children, rather than the "school's way" and beating the
information into their heads. +*+*
Do you know what kind of scores they are required to achieve? In our state
they only need to score in the 25th percentile or better to be considered
adequate. And if they do happen to score below the 25th percentile, we
would be on "probation" for the following year and have to show a certain
level of improvement on the next test.
The whole testing and measuring up process generally sounds much scarier
than it actually is.
Beth D
Sandra Dodd
For any testing questions, the best people to ask are unschoolers
where you live. Sometimes there are alternatives people don't know
about. It's not a good topic for this list, though, because it's not
really about learning. It's about complying with laws, which is a
local/regional topic.
If people can discuss it philosophically, that's fine. Particulars
should be local, though. You might find locals here if you don't
already have some:
http://sandradodd.com/world
Sandra
where you live. Sometimes there are alternatives people don't know
about. It's not a good topic for this list, though, because it's not
really about learning. It's about complying with laws, which is a
local/regional topic.
If people can discuss it philosophically, that's fine. Particulars
should be local, though. You might find locals here if you don't
already have some:
http://sandradodd.com/world
Sandra
toastmastermom
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
Are unschoolers learning on a similar curve as others? "They" (meaning the school administrators) say that a 3rd grader should be learning multiplication or a 4th grader needs to be able to spell this word or that. If "they" are right, then unschoolers would be able to well on these tests. I just wondered what other's experience was in this area.
I found out that the child only needs to be in the 13th percentile or higher - gee, that'll be hard. NOT. So I no longer am concerned about having my child learn to fill in the bubbles, but I am still curious about how other unschoolers do on those tests. I include ACT and SAT on that list, too.
> It's not a good topic for this list, though, because it's notI guess my question is a bit of "Do unschoolers test well on standardized tests, even though they aren't beaten with the specific information the way public schoolers are?"
> really about learning. It's about complying with laws, which is a
> local/regional topic.
> >
> Sandra
>
Are unschoolers learning on a similar curve as others? "They" (meaning the school administrators) say that a 3rd grader should be learning multiplication or a 4th grader needs to be able to spell this word or that. If "they" are right, then unschoolers would be able to well on these tests. I just wondered what other's experience was in this area.
I found out that the child only needs to be in the 13th percentile or higher - gee, that'll be hard. NOT. So I no longer am concerned about having my child learn to fill in the bubbles, but I am still curious about how other unschoolers do on those tests. I include ACT and SAT on that list, too.
Sandra Dodd
-=-I guess my question is a bit of "Do unschoolers test well on
standardized tests, even though they aren't beaten with the specific
information the way public schoolers are?"-=-
Well lots of public schooled kids do horribly on the tests, even those
who know the material somewhat, because some people don't test well.
Others are great guessers and can pass tests on things they know
little to nothing about because they can spot the bad answers.
There are statistics on the scores of homeschoolers, but there aren't
stats on unschoolers' scores separately.
In the days when New Mexico required three tests over the school
years, some parents would register the kid for third grade twice, and
then skip to fifth (when 4th grade was one of the testing years, for
example). Some would just not show up for the testing, or when there
was an option for people to order tests and have them administered by
a teacher or counsellor, they could get the test and not have to look
at or turn in the scores. The law just said they had to take the
test, not report the results.
-=-Are unschoolers learning on a similar curve as others?
"They" (meaning the school administrators) say that a 3rd grader
should be learning multiplication or a 4th grader needs to be able to
spell this word or that. If "they" are right, then unschoolers would
be able to well on these tests. I just wondered what other's
experience was in this area.-=-
There are no stats. It will be different for different kids. If you
can avoid the tests, there are reasons to do so. Please check with
locals to see what your practical options are. Many people believe or
are told that tests are required when there are options.
Knowing the test scores can and does change the attitude of the adults
and their perceptions of their children, whether the scores are high,
low or average.
If they're going to take a test, briefing them on the way the tests
are to be marked is good. There are some stories at this link:
http://sandradodd.com/testing/
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
standardized tests, even though they aren't beaten with the specific
information the way public schoolers are?"-=-
Well lots of public schooled kids do horribly on the tests, even those
who know the material somewhat, because some people don't test well.
Others are great guessers and can pass tests on things they know
little to nothing about because they can spot the bad answers.
There are statistics on the scores of homeschoolers, but there aren't
stats on unschoolers' scores separately.
In the days when New Mexico required three tests over the school
years, some parents would register the kid for third grade twice, and
then skip to fifth (when 4th grade was one of the testing years, for
example). Some would just not show up for the testing, or when there
was an option for people to order tests and have them administered by
a teacher or counsellor, they could get the test and not have to look
at or turn in the scores. The law just said they had to take the
test, not report the results.
-=-Are unschoolers learning on a similar curve as others?
"They" (meaning the school administrators) say that a 3rd grader
should be learning multiplication or a 4th grader needs to be able to
spell this word or that. If "they" are right, then unschoolers would
be able to well on these tests. I just wondered what other's
experience was in this area.-=-
There are no stats. It will be different for different kids. If you
can avoid the tests, there are reasons to do so. Please check with
locals to see what your practical options are. Many people believe or
are told that tests are required when there are options.
Knowing the test scores can and does change the attitude of the adults
and their perceptions of their children, whether the scores are high,
low or average.
If they're going to take a test, briefing them on the way the tests
are to be marked is good. There are some stories at this link:
http://sandradodd.com/testing/
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
carnationsgalore
> I guess my question is a bit of "Do unschoolers test well onFirst, does the test score mean anything at all? Will your state board of education send officials to your home if your kids do not make a certain score?
> standardized tests, even though they aren't beaten with the specific
> information the way public schoolers are?"
My local public elementary school begins preparing students for the standardized tests about 2 months before the test date. I was floored. My youngest daughter happened to be in school at that time and she said it was all they talked about in class. The school sent home worksheets and online links to practice for the test. My dd didn't want to do them. No one asked about that practice. She took the test and said it was really no big deal and was fairly stupid. It did have some questions she didn't know because she hadn't studied those topics. The teacher told me Allie did fine. And that was it.
> Are unschoolers learning on a similar curve as others?I certainly hope not. Well, I know my children are learning at home and schooled kids are learning/being schooled in school, but I have absolutely no desire to keep up with the school's scope & sequence. I know homeschoolers like me who just don't really care how my children compare to other kids. The scores are absolutely meaningless because I will not teach to the test either to prepare for the test or to strengthen weak points found by the results.
> I include ACT and SAT on that list, too.Taking standardized tests in K - 12 is completely different than taking the SAT and ACT tests to meet college requirements. The former is mandatory and the latter voluntary. My 17 year old dd chose to take the SAT next month to see how well she can do. There are workbooks full of tips, strategies, and practice questions that will prepare her for these tests. I do not believe schoolers have an advantage over unschoolers, mostly because I think when an unschooler chooses to take these tests, or do anything else for that matter, he/she is making an informed personal decision.
Beth
Paula Sjogerman
On Sep 20, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
- being schooled and growing up with that mindset - would be most
affected. What we concentrated on, for both of us, was viewing the
test as only a test of what is on that particular test, not anything
broader. Oh, except maybe a test of how you are as a test-taker. FI,
it's clear that if you are a fast reader, you have a big advantage.
But it doesn't mean anything about how you actually comprehend the
readings.
And I think that is truly the way to see all standardized tests.
Paula
> Knowing the test scores can and does change the attitude of the adultsWhen Zoe took the SATs, this is what I worried about the most. That I
> and their perceptions of their children, whether the scores are high,
> low or average.
- being schooled and growing up with that mindset - would be most
affected. What we concentrated on, for both of us, was viewing the
test as only a test of what is on that particular test, not anything
broader. Oh, except maybe a test of how you are as a test-taker. FI,
it's clear that if you are a fast reader, you have a big advantage.
But it doesn't mean anything about how you actually comprehend the
readings.
And I think that is truly the way to see all standardized tests.
Paula
toastmastermom
Thank you all for your responses. Unschooling is new to me and I'm enjoying the process, but it is difficult to overcome some of the "brainwashing" that occurred in the 16 years of schooling I went through.
Add to that, the law says I need to test my kids which further complicates my de-schooling process. Your support means alot.
Add to that, the law says I need to test my kids which further complicates my de-schooling process. Your support means alot.
Beth
+*+* I guess my question is a bit of "Do unschoolers test well on
standardized tests, even though they aren't beaten with the specific
information the way public schoolers are?" +*+*
I don't know. The tests are taken by both schooled and homeschooled (and
probably some unschooled) children, and the results are not broken down by
group so there's really nothing to measure their individual results against.
I don't tell my children their scores, and I only glance at the composite to
make sure it is over the 25th percentile and send it on to the school board.
The scores don't really mean anything to me, and I don't want them to mean
anything to my kids either. They're only a means to an end, to enable us to
get our "permission letter" for another year of hassle-free homeschooling.
Beth D
standardized tests, even though they aren't beaten with the specific
information the way public schoolers are?" +*+*
I don't know. The tests are taken by both schooled and homeschooled (and
probably some unschooled) children, and the results are not broken down by
group so there's really nothing to measure their individual results against.
I don't tell my children their scores, and I only glance at the composite to
make sure it is over the 25th percentile and send it on to the school board.
The scores don't really mean anything to me, and I don't want them to mean
anything to my kids either. They're only a means to an end, to enable us to
get our "permission letter" for another year of hassle-free homeschooling.
Beth D
Sandra Dodd
-=-Unschooling is new to me and I'm enjoying the process, but it is
difficult to overcome some of the "brainwashing" that occurred in the
16 years of schooling I went through.-=-
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
There's no way through that but to go through it! Watch your words,
and then watch your thoughts. You can do it! Thousands of people
have done it.
-=-Add to that, the law says I need to test my kids which further
complicates my de-schooling process. Your support means alot. -=-
Double check that, as recommended before. Check with locals.
And I shudder when someone thinks of this as a support group. We're
not going to support you through having your kids tested. I'm not
even wanting to support talking about it anymore. You need to check
with local unschoolers, and discuss it there, with them, not here with
Australians and Canadians and people from several states with no test
requirements at all.
Don't look for support, look for alternatives and ideas!
Support too often looks like this:
http://sandradodd.com/support
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
difficult to overcome some of the "brainwashing" that occurred in the
16 years of schooling I went through.-=-
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
There's no way through that but to go through it! Watch your words,
and then watch your thoughts. You can do it! Thousands of people
have done it.
-=-Add to that, the law says I need to test my kids which further
complicates my de-schooling process. Your support means alot. -=-
Double check that, as recommended before. Check with locals.
And I shudder when someone thinks of this as a support group. We're
not going to support you through having your kids tested. I'm not
even wanting to support talking about it anymore. You need to check
with local unschoolers, and discuss it there, with them, not here with
Australians and Canadians and people from several states with no test
requirements at all.
Don't look for support, look for alternatives and ideas!
Support too often looks like this:
http://sandradodd.com/support
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
toastmastermom
What I meant by support was everyone's encouragement to look for alternatives (which I've found, thanks) and reminders of how learning looks different.
Sorry to offend. Subject dropped.
Sorry to offend. Subject dropped.
Sandra Dodd
-=-What I meant by support was everyone's encouragement to look for
alternatives (which I've found, thanks) and reminders of how learning
looks different. -=-
I know. It wouldn't be good or right, though, for me (as the list
owner) to leave a mushy "thanks for the support" note there when it's
commonly stated on this list that it's not a support list, but a
discussion list. Some people's needs are well supported by
discussions! Certainly if people want brainstorming there are fewer
better places in the world than this list; I'm serious. But what
most people mean by "support" is agreement, sympathy, encouragement to
keep doing what one's already doing. Teaparty cooing stuff. And
that's neither the purpose nor the practice of this list.
-=-Sorry to offend. Subject dropped.-=-
It's not offensive, I'm trying to clarify.
Subjects don't "get dropped" here, though they sometimes run out of
steam.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
alternatives (which I've found, thanks) and reminders of how learning
looks different. -=-
I know. It wouldn't be good or right, though, for me (as the list
owner) to leave a mushy "thanks for the support" note there when it's
commonly stated on this list that it's not a support list, but a
discussion list. Some people's needs are well supported by
discussions! Certainly if people want brainstorming there are fewer
better places in the world than this list; I'm serious. But what
most people mean by "support" is agreement, sympathy, encouragement to
keep doing what one's already doing. Teaparty cooing stuff. And
that's neither the purpose nor the practice of this list.
-=-Sorry to offend. Subject dropped.-=-
It's not offensive, I'm trying to clarify.
Subjects don't "get dropped" here, though they sometimes run out of
steam.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]