heather

Greetings from Southern Oregon -

Hooray for the internet! Thank goodness for you, Sandra Dodd, and all of the folks here who are joining our children in learning and growing together!

I have been making forays into the homesteading movement - my five year old daughter and I have been living in an off the grid tipi village for the past year, and loving the life this earth gifts us with! Recently I have been looking at options for the upcoming winter, as pioneering is HARD. I have dreams of small town or rural subsistence farming, homesteading... and of living in community with other families who unschool as well. The two seem to go together naturally, but I'm surprised at how rarely I hear talk of this lifeway.

I am re-reading My Antonia by Willa Cather - and would like to recommend it to anyone who read it years ago, or who never read it, and who is entranced by the pioneering folk who broke sod and during the first back-to-the-land movement in this country. It's a classic, and can be found in any library or used book store. I myself grew up on a "subsistence farm" that my mother manifested in the early eighties. It was not really successful.. but it seems to me now that a cooperative homesteading approach may be more feasible... for the radical unschooling and homesteading movements are (again) on the rise!

Another wonderful reading is that of Ralph Borsodi, Flight From the City - An Experiment of Creative Living On the Land. This paper explores the homesteading movement of the 1920's and 30's, and can be found at http://www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0302hsted/030204borsodi/030204borsoditoc.html

So happy to have met you - and looking forward to talking more!

heather

Sandra Dodd

Thanks for the kind words, but there are a few things I'd like to
clarify for the purposes of this list:

-=-I myself grew up on a "subsistence farm" that my mother manifested
in the early eighties. It was not really successful.. but it seems to
me now that a cooperative homesteading approach may be more
feasible... for the radical unschooling and homesteading movements are
(again) on the rise!-=-

Homesteading isn't again on the rise. The term is being used a
different way now. There are still people in some parts of the U.S.
(I can't speak for other people) who do live on land that was actually
homesteaded, under some state's homestead act or another. If a
person buys land, that's not homesteading in that sense. I know
there's another sense. I'd like to help everyone know there was an
earlier, real/literal sense.

Unschooling isn't on the rise again. It's just where it's been all
the time, growing gradually.

And unless your mother could create a farm with a magic wand, I'm
guessing she rented or bought or squatted on someone's land, but that
she didn't "manifest" a farm.

Clarity is a valuable commodity, and this is a valuable list!

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marina DeLuca-Howard

I have been intrigued by the idea of urban homesteading: off the grid
living.

My family would wilt if forced to live off the land I am afraid. My nine
year old, Martin, has a strawberry patch in our urban backyard, and we grow
all sorts of things. We are slowly replacing grass with lots of fun
plants. In my fantasy moments I relive some "little house on the prairie"
dream of getting back to the land where everything is idealized. I would
like to hear how other unschoolers live lightly in the big city buying local
produce, or building composting toilets, however.

My kids and I have checked out sites which show one how to build solar
panels. Has anyone powered kids gaming with solar? Generally their
enthusiasm and mine wanes as we read complex instructions. However I love
the idea of lowering our "footprint" and living with our planets resources
more conservatively.

My nine year old has made a "solar oven" to re-heat hotdogs! We have also
made "sun tea". Anyone else have similar experiences?

Marina

2009/8/5 Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>

>
>
> Thanks for the kind words, but there are a few things I'd like to
> clarify for the purposes of this list:
>
> -=-I myself grew up on a "subsistence farm" that my mother manifested
> in the early eighties. It was not really successful.. but it seems to
> me now that a cooperative homesteading approach may be more
> feasible... for the radical unschooling and homesteading movements are
> (again) on the rise!-=-
>
> Homesteading isn't again on the rise. The term is being used a
> different way now. There are still people in some parts of the U.S.
> (I can't speak for other people) who do live on land that was actually
> homesteaded, under some state's homestead act or another. If a
> person buys land, that's not homesteading in that sense. I know
> there's another sense. I'd like to help everyone know there was an
> earlier, real/literal sense.
>
> Unschooling isn't on the rise again. It's just where it's been all
> the time, growing gradually.
>
> And unless your mother could create a farm with a magic wand, I'm
> guessing she rented or bought or squatted on someone's land, but that
> she didn't "manifest" a farm.
>
> Clarity is a valuable commodity, and this is a valuable list!
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
Rent our cottage: http://davehoward.ca/cottage/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-My family would wilt if forced to live off the land I am afraid.-=-

Isn't one of the basic tenets of unschooling that anyone forced to do
anything will wilt? <g>

This might not be the best list for discussing "homesteading." Having
had relatives who actually, literally did homestead (take wild land
and make a farm or ranch and live there long enough to own it), I'm
not crazy about the current use of it to mean "playing hippies in
town" (I know it's not all just that, but some of it is).

Talking about gardens and solar panels is fine with me as long as it's
about helping kids learn about them. Please keep the topics toward
what will help people unschool.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marina DeLuca-Howard

> I'm not crazy about the current use of it to mean "playing hippies in
>town" (I know it's not all just that, but some of it is).

I am not sure what homesteading means; although I have seen it used to
describe families who were living independent of oil, water, and schools.
They were using alternative energy, composting toilets, collecting
rainwater/using well water and changing the way they learned by unschooling
with their families. Some were living differently in the city and their
children were interested in growing food or living with a different
connection to nature. I remember reading an English site which discussed
a man who powered his laptop with solar and I was curious if anybody's kids
did this. Mine express an interest in cycling rather than driving. They
would love to power their games with solar. Maybe I am confusing reducing
our footprint on the earth with homesteading?

It looks like a hard life going back to the land and to survive kids would
have to do a lot of hard work and possibly be very obedient--which doesn't
sound like child-led learning or unschooling.

Marina

--
Rent our cottage: http://davehoward.ca/cottage/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Maybe I am confusing reducing
our footprint on the earth with homesteading?-=-

No, that's the term they're using. It's probably more charming to
people who don't live in those western states where homesteaders
worked really hard to stay on tough land to get to keep it, and then
some lost it in the Depression.

Now it seems to be about making the big mortgage payments or even
renting, but having a hybrid car and a clothesline. I'm not sure it
has much to do with unschooling, except for the idea of clarity.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Marina.
Every thing you guys have done is amazing. I have always thought I am the only one that dreams of ' living off the land '. Though I am in a suburb of chicago and my ' land ' is not big. Lol

I don't have many success stories other than using our garden to eat dinners. my son and i go out and pick herbs or veggies to go with our dinner. I also use it as a tool to teach my son we have to water our plants every day. I wish we had the land to grow all our meals from but we r doing as much as we can.
Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless handheld

-----Original Message-----
From: Marina DeLuca-Howard <delucahoward@...>

Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:25:14
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Is anybody else out here homesteading?


I have been intrigued by the idea of urban homesteading: off the grid
living.

My family would wilt if forced to live off the land I am afraid. My nine
year old, Martin, has a strawberry patch in our urban backyard, and we grow
all sorts of things. We are slowly replacing grass with lots of fun
plants. In my fantasy moments I relive some "little house on the prairie"
dream of getting back to the land where everything is idealized. I would
like to hear how other unschoolers live lightly in the big city buying local
produce, or building composting toilets, however.

My kids and I have checked out sites which show one how to build solar
panels. Has anyone powered kids gaming with solar? Generally their
enthusiasm and mine wanes as we read complex instructions. However I love
the idea of lowering our "footprint" and living with our planets resources
more conservatively.

My nine year old has made a "solar oven" to re-heat hotdogs! We have also
made "sun tea". Anyone else have similar experiences?

Marina

2009/8/5 Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>

>
>
> Thanks for the kind words, but there are a few things I'd like to
> clarify for the purposes of this list:
>
> -=-I myself grew up on a "subsistence farm" that my mother manifested
> in the early eighties. It was not really successful.. but it seems to
> me now that a cooperative homesteading approach may be more
> feasible... for the radical unschooling and homesteading movements are
> (again) on the rise!-=-
>
> Homesteading isn't again on the rise. The term is being used a
> different way now. There are still people in some parts of the U.S.
> (I can't speak for other people) who do live on land that was actually
> homesteaded, under some state's homestead act or another. If a
> person buys land, that's not homesteading in that sense. I know
> there's another sense. I'd like to help everyone know there was an
> earlier, real/literal sense.
>
> Unschooling isn't on the rise again. It's just where it's been all
> the time, growing gradually.
>
> And unless your mother could create a farm with a magic wand, I'm
> guessing she rented or bought or squatted on someone's land, but that
> she didn't "manifest" a farm.
>
> Clarity is a valuable commodity, and this is a valuable list!
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
Rent our cottage: http://davehoward.ca/cottage/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

~~Mine express an interest in cycling rather than driving. They
would love to power their games with solar. Maybe I am confusing reducing our footprint on the earth with homesteading?~~

Yes, probably.:)
Homesteading is really living more self-reliant rather than just making choices for lower impact on the earth's resources. There are several of us unschoolers out here in the SE who are making choices both for right now (reducing impact) and for long-term (mini-farms, large gardens etc...)

One book I really love that Kelly Lovejoy recently recommended is "The Backyard Homestead" which explains how to make smaller spaces more usable for growing food.

I think it's really great to consider our own needs for moving towards a lower impact lifestyle while also considering other family member's desires and how it all plays out as we work together with different ideals.

I have learned to expand my garden every year and choose things that help all of us without taking away anyone else's choice...things like rain barrels and hanging laundry to dry and other things I truly enjoy. I love talking about how the kids and dh move in and out of these interests of mine, embracing parts and leaving me to other parts like most of the beekeeping! It's all part of the unschooling flow.

Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com

Ren Allen

~~It looks like a hard life going back to the land and to survive kids would have to do a lot of hard work and possibly be very obedient--which doesn't sound like child-led learning or unschooling.~~

That's a big huge "it depends". I know of a family in which the children have little to no choice about their homesteading lifestyle and are expected to do X amount of work. Obedience IS part of their homestead and survival. I think they are missing out on a lot because it isn't by choice.

I know another family quite well (she may chime in here) who has an amazing farm and CSA and who lives quite consensually with her children and dh. She owns her passion for the self-sufficient life and they have a harmonious and peaceful lifestyle, without all of the burden of guilt and hard-work ethic that my Dad shouldered growing up on a farm. So it all depends on whether the family entered the lifestyle as a choice, working out the various differences with respect or if it's expected just because the parents decided it's better.

I don't expect my children to share my values, yet I do expect the members of my family to allow me the space to pursue those things. We all support each other, even if we don't all share the passion.

Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com

[email protected]

I remember reading an English site which discussed

a man who powered his laptop with solar and I was curious if anybody's kids

did this. Mine express an interest in cycling rather than driving. They

would love to power their games with solar.






What about powering their games with the bike. There are the old sewing machines that ran with a foot pedal. It seems like that could be used to generate power and might be easier to do while gaming than a bike. I would love to get some exercise while game playing, but it might require more coordination than I have. I wonder if there is a way to charge up a handheld game system while riding around town. That would be cool.
Meg












[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nancy Wooton

On Aug 11, 2009, at 6:46 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:

> -=-Maybe I am confusing reducing
> our footprint on the earth with homesteading?-=-
>
> No, that's the term they're using. It's probably more charming to
> people who don't live in those western states where homesteaders
> worked really hard to stay on tough land to get to keep it, and then
> some lost it in the Depression.
>
> Now it seems to be about making the big mortgage payments or even
> renting, but having a hybrid car and a clothesline. I'm not sure it
> has much to do with unschooling, except for the idea of clarity.
>
> Sandra
>

Sandra, as a fellow westerner, I think of homesteading in the historic
sense, too; we need to get with the times ;-)

From Wikipedia:

Currently the term 'homesteading'[1] applies to anyone who is a limb
of the back-to-the-land movement and who chooses to live a
sustainable, self-sufficient lifestyle. While land is no longer freely
available in most areas of the world, homesteading remains as a way of
life. A new movement, called 'urban homesteading', can be viewed as a
simple livinglifestyle, incorporating small-scale agriculture,
sustainable and permaculture gardening, and home food production and
storage into suburban or city living.
Certain progressive activists are attempting to redefine the term
based on a few limited successes in New York courts. According to
them, homesteading may also refer to the practice of squatting �
occupying an abandoned or unoccupied space or building that the
squatter does not own, rent or otherwise have permission to use.[2]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-
Sandra, as a fellow westerner, I think of homesteading in the historic
sense, too; we need to get with the times ;-)-=-

Here's how the growth of language and culture goes, though. Some
people resist the change and some people reckless run toward
"whatever." And between the two of those, the changes have both
momentum and brakes so that the language remains recognizeable or the
culture stays alive.

If language is going to change, it should be for a purpose and it
should make sense.

Being from the western U.S., and being from New Mexico specifically, I
will still continue to stand and guard against the loud ignorance of
people who thought all the Indians died in the 19th century, and that
anyone vaguely Hispanic is part of "Latino culture."

What works in New York is quite often lame and goofy in New Mexico.
I'm not conservative about everything, God knows, but about language I
am.

And this small-scale gardening, I must say that I ate my whole potato
crop the other day--about a dozen tiny potatoes, the biggest one the
size of a golf ball. And I've eaten most of the tomatoes straight off
the vine, because they don't get ahead of the curve. But then I live
in the desert where it's unnatural to try to grow anything, so pretty
much I'm using way more water and time than it's worth. Cheaper to
buy greenouse tomatoes at the store a hundred yards out the back gate.
If I were near the Rio Grande and had a field with irrigation rights,
it would be a little more sensible, but here, eight miles from the
river, not so much. <g>

If people are growing vegetables for fun, that's great. If they're
too poor to buy food from the store, they should go for it. But if
they're growing vegetables (as I was) just for funs that doesn't make
them homesteaders, nor are they likely to sustain their families
unless they live where there's a whole lot of rain. And some people do.

But what it has to do with unschooling is slim. And what it has to do
with language and clarity is fat.

Sandra

Jenny C

>>>I also use it as a tool to teach my son we have to water our plants
every day. >>>

You don't have to use watering plants as a tool to teach. If you water
your plants because they need water, kids will pick up on this idea.
Depending on where one lives and what plants they grow, watering
everyday may or may not be something that has to be done.

Just like everything else in life, learning happens through interested
doings. If a kid is interested in helping with gardening, they will
pick up on the details of how that's done and done well. If the point
is teaching a child about watering, many other ideas may be lost through
that narrow focus.

Gwen

Oh my gosh!  I'd probably fall off the bike while trying to use a controller!  When I belonged to a health club (pre-kids), they had a bank of tv's set up in front of the exercise equipment.  I always made sure to be there at 7pm so I could watch Jeopardy while I exercised.  I could never figure out how to read & walk or bike & read without losing my balance.

I remember Ed Begley Jr. had a reality show a few years ago.  It was mostly about his gardening, solar panels, using rain barrels to catch water and similar things.  I remember he rode an exercise bike to power his toaster in the mornings.  That might be a place to start if someone is interested in powering themselves.

Gwen

--- On Wed, 8/12/09, Cfebsleb@... <Cfebsleb@...> wrote:
What about powering their games with the bike. There are the old sewing machines that ran with a foot pedal. It seems like that could be used to generate power and might be easier to do while gaming than a bike. I would love to get some exercise while game playing, but it might require more coordination than I have. I wonder if there is a way to charge up a handheld game system while riding around town. That would be cool.
Meg






   
   




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Danielle Conger

Ren Allen wrote:
>
> I know another family quite well (she may chime in here) who has an
> amazing farm and CSA and who lives quite consensually with her
> children and dh. She owns her passion for the self-sufficient life and
> they have a harmonious and peaceful lifestyle, without all of the
> burden of guilt and hard-work ethic that my Dad shouldered growing up
> on a farm. So it all depends on whether the family entered the
> lifestyle as a choice, working out the various differences with
> respect or if it's expected just because the parents decided it's better.
>

Ren means me, and I like her description. *bwg*

I'd be happy to discuss what we do, share ideas, brainstorm, etc. if
anyone wants to email me off list. I love discussing my passion for
food--from start to finish.

--
~~Danielle
Emily (11), Julia (10), Sam (9)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com

Ren Allen

>
> Ren means me, and I like her description. *bwg*
>
> I'd be happy to discuss what we do, share ideas, brainstorm, etc. if
> anyone wants to email me off list. I love discussing my passion for
> food--from start to finish.
>


I'm glad you chimed in, because I don't like naming people when they aren't in the conversation!:) Anyone who wants to talk about following your own passion into homesteading while radical unschooling really should talk to Danielle. It's a whole different reality than one where the parents expect the kids to join into the lifestyle without questioning.

It's a joy to be around such families, whether they farm or live in the city or on a bus or??? The philosophies remain the same.

Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com