Saying no, a question...
Sandra Dodd
A few years ago someone (Pam? Deb Lewis?) told of a radio parenting
advisor (or ? magazine/tv?) who said children should hear "no" three
times for every two yesses (or some particular number) and had called
it "Vitamin N" or something. Is this something that's findable
online? I looked vaguely but couldn't remember the guy's name. I
did find this, on a Q&A site that exists mostly to make money, but the
end was so.... NORMAL in the regular world and so different in mine
that I was surprised at how far I've come!
Cool!
I left out the details of the first four situations where no is
desirable and expected.
==============================
Being a parent isn't always easy, and often, it's not fun. Some of the
hardest times are when we have to deny our children their requests or
put a stop to certain behaviors.
When are the most important times to tell a child "no"?
1. For safety reasons....
2. For health reasons...
3. For character reasons...
4. For convenience reasons...
5. Just because. It remains the parents' prerogative to deny a child's
request just because "I say so." This doesn't mean a parent has the
right to taunt or tease a son or daughter, but rather, that some
requests may be denied or some behaviors prevented or punished because
a parent may know what is best without needing to explain to the
child. Children should learn to respect authority from their earliest
years. When they are allowed to argue, wheedle, complain, or throw
tantrums that eventually earn them the privilege of getting what they
want instead of respecting parents' wishes, the balance of authority
is thwarted. Children learn to disrespect and disregard other forms of
authority, such as teachers, law officials, and bosses, to get what
they want.
Saying "no" gets easier with practice. While parents can and should
grant kids' wishes when they can, it is expected and desirable to deny
them for reasons like those cited above.
==================================================================
Not important, but for the record:
http://www.essortment.com/family/tellchildno_sznl.htm
advisor (or ? magazine/tv?) who said children should hear "no" three
times for every two yesses (or some particular number) and had called
it "Vitamin N" or something. Is this something that's findable
online? I looked vaguely but couldn't remember the guy's name. I
did find this, on a Q&A site that exists mostly to make money, but the
end was so.... NORMAL in the regular world and so different in mine
that I was surprised at how far I've come!
Cool!
I left out the details of the first four situations where no is
desirable and expected.
==============================
Being a parent isn't always easy, and often, it's not fun. Some of the
hardest times are when we have to deny our children their requests or
put a stop to certain behaviors.
When are the most important times to tell a child "no"?
1. For safety reasons....
2. For health reasons...
3. For character reasons...
4. For convenience reasons...
5. Just because. It remains the parents' prerogative to deny a child's
request just because "I say so." This doesn't mean a parent has the
right to taunt or tease a son or daughter, but rather, that some
requests may be denied or some behaviors prevented or punished because
a parent may know what is best without needing to explain to the
child. Children should learn to respect authority from their earliest
years. When they are allowed to argue, wheedle, complain, or throw
tantrums that eventually earn them the privilege of getting what they
want instead of respecting parents' wishes, the balance of authority
is thwarted. Children learn to disrespect and disregard other forms of
authority, such as teachers, law officials, and bosses, to get what
they want.
Saying "no" gets easier with practice. While parents can and should
grant kids' wishes when they can, it is expected and desirable to deny
them for reasons like those cited above.
==================================================================
Not important, but for the record:
http://www.essortment.com/family/tellchildno_sznl.htm
Sylvia Toyama
John Rosemond refers to Vitamin N and talks about saying NO to kids as being part of what he calls something like a Children's Bill of Rights. Of course, he's also a proponent of all sorts of other disrespectful ways of treating kids.
I don't know where to find the specific article, but you can find his books, weekly columns and more advice from him at rosemond.com.
Sylvia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't know where to find the specific article, but you can find his books, weekly columns and more advice from him at rosemond.com.
Sylvia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
I thought right away of John Rosemond. I went to his site, clicked on
the Quotation of the Day and lo and behold:
http://www.rosemond.com/view/389/21577/Quotation-of-the-Day.html
I found this, too.
http://naturalmomstalkradio.com/blog/vitamin-n/
Robin B.
the Quotation of the Day and lo and behold:
http://www.rosemond.com/view/389/21577/Quotation-of-the-Day.html
I found this, too.
http://naturalmomstalkradio.com/blog/vitamin-n/
Robin B.
On Jul 8, 2009, at 10:01 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> A few years ago someone (Pam? Deb Lewis?) told of a radio parenting
> advisor (or ? magazine/tv?) who said children should hear "no" three
> times for every two yesses (or some particular number) and had called
> it "Vitamin N" or something. Is this something that's findable
> online?
Sandra Dodd
Thanks, Sylvia and Robin. I took the quote and googled it and found
it in this,
My six-point plan for rearing children
By John Rosemond
http://people.eku.edu/falkenbergs/parent.htm
"Frustrate your children for success."
Huh. Maybe that's where my mother in law got her "You need to
frustrate them" idea. Or maybe it's just traditional and they both
got it from parents who frustrated them.
Thanks for the find.
Sandra
it in this,
My six-point plan for rearing children
By John Rosemond
http://people.eku.edu/falkenbergs/parent.htm
"Frustrate your children for success."
Huh. Maybe that's where my mother in law got her "You need to
frustrate them" idea. Or maybe it's just traditional and they both
got it from parents who frustrated them.
Thanks for the find.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
From the bio:
-=-Before he was a year old, John's parents moved back to Charleston,
where both of them had grown up. When he was three or thereabouts, his
parents divorced and Mr. Bobo and his mom remained in Charleston until
she remarried when he was seven. Her second husband, a medical school
professor, took them to the suburbs of Chicago. John and his
stepfather had their share of "issues" over the years, culminating in
John going to live with his dad in Valdosta, GA, when he was fifteen.
When he was seventeen and about to enter his senior year of high
school, John's father announced that he was taking a job in Augusta,
GA. Rather than attend a third high school, John opted to return for
his senior year to the high school he'd attended as a freshman and
sophomore, Proviso West High School in Hillside, IL, where he
graduated in 1965.
After a summer spent experimenting with juvenile delinquency, -=-
Oh my. How transparent is this? He wishes his parents had stayed
together so he advises parents to pay more attention to their
marriages than to their parents. His decisions were based on high
school.
Do you think he was told "No" by his father AND stepfather AND mother
but somehow thinks more would've been better?
-=-where John took his first job as a real, honest-to-goodness
psychologist, working in a program that served children with behavior
and learning problems. Two years later, in 1976, ...
He got his first real job in 1974, and he was born in 1947? What a
slacker. <bwg> (He was a musician before that; that's fine with me.)
And he's working with problem children, not with NON-problem
children. I wonder if he's ever even seen or known kids who had
vigorous mental health? <g>
"...is the father of two successful adults, and the grandfather of
seven children...make that seven well-behaved grandchildren."
I hope they're all happy. I hope "successful" doesn't just mean "left
home, made money."
Sandra
-=-Before he was a year old, John's parents moved back to Charleston,
where both of them had grown up. When he was three or thereabouts, his
parents divorced and Mr. Bobo and his mom remained in Charleston until
she remarried when he was seven. Her second husband, a medical school
professor, took them to the suburbs of Chicago. John and his
stepfather had their share of "issues" over the years, culminating in
John going to live with his dad in Valdosta, GA, when he was fifteen.
When he was seventeen and about to enter his senior year of high
school, John's father announced that he was taking a job in Augusta,
GA. Rather than attend a third high school, John opted to return for
his senior year to the high school he'd attended as a freshman and
sophomore, Proviso West High School in Hillside, IL, where he
graduated in 1965.
After a summer spent experimenting with juvenile delinquency, -=-
Oh my. How transparent is this? He wishes his parents had stayed
together so he advises parents to pay more attention to their
marriages than to their parents. His decisions were based on high
school.
Do you think he was told "No" by his father AND stepfather AND mother
but somehow thinks more would've been better?
-=-where John took his first job as a real, honest-to-goodness
psychologist, working in a program that served children with behavior
and learning problems. Two years later, in 1976, ...
He got his first real job in 1974, and he was born in 1947? What a
slacker. <bwg> (He was a musician before that; that's fine with me.)
And he's working with problem children, not with NON-problem
children. I wonder if he's ever even seen or known kids who had
vigorous mental health? <g>
"...is the father of two successful adults, and the grandfather of
seven children...make that seven well-behaved grandchildren."
I hope they're all happy. I hope "successful" doesn't just mean "left
home, made money."
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
I saw the error as it flew away.... to pay more attention to their
marriage than to their CHILDREN.
Very sorry for the error.
Sandra
marriage than to their CHILDREN.
Very sorry for the error.
Sandra
Jenny C
><http://people.eku.edu/falkenbergs/parent.htm>
> Thanks, Sylvia and Robin. I took the quote and googled it and found
> it in this,
> My six-point plan for rearing children
> By John Rosemond
>
>
> http://people.eku.edu/falkenbergs/parent.htm
and from that, at the top it says this:
"Well it's my practical, tried-and-true prescription for successful
parenthood."
So he can feel like a successful parent... but that says nothing about
how the kids turned out! It says nothing about wether or not he has a
good relationship with his kids. That would be far more telling, if we
knew the outcomes of his "successful" parenting.
A conversation came up at a 4th of July party that we attended, where a
dad said that it's a fine line between being a parent and a friend. I
know we've had this convo before and I'm hoping someone will remind me
who wrote that wonderful thing about being friends with your kids! I'm
thinking it was Pam...
I was telling Chamille about that conversation, and we were talking
about how so many parents don't think they should be friends with their
kids. Chamille said that she'd feel hurt if I didn't want to be her
friend. She does consider me a friend AND a parent. She doesn't think
there should be any line. She made a little revelation in that
conversation... she said "no wonder teenagers don't want to hang out
with their parents, they aren't friends and the parents don't think they
should be." She thinks that teenagers like being friends with adults
and parents and that the dismissal of friendship probably hurts and the
only way to counter that is to disrespect and dismiss in turn.
I hung out with the kids more than the adults at that party, the teens
and the younger ones both and sometimes together. Part of my goal was
to keep the little ones away from the teens a bit to give them some
space to do oddly weird things with fire and fireworks and not have to
worry about keeping an eye on the little ones. The teenagers were
extremely grateful for that! The other adults expected them to watch
the little ones, although didn't actually ask, it was mostly assumed.
The dad who had made that comment about being friends with kids, has a
pregnant 16 yr old daughter. She's too far along to get an abortion,
would have liked to, but was too afraid to say anything to anyone. So,
by not being friends with his daughter, he gets to be a grandfather
really young. I'm fairly certain that the dad had said "no" to her
having sex and getting pregnant. Just because a parent says "no" doesnt
mean diddly skwat, kids will do what they do, to pretend otherwise is
pretty silly. I guess by saying "no" the parent can say they did their
job by not allowing it, and shift the blame onto the kids, who clearly
disobeyed and did wrong.
I kept my mouth shut... I'm trying out this new way of being quiet and
sweet instead of opinionated and alienating myself and Chamille. That
man is the boyfriend of one of Chamille's friend's mother. Chamille
thinks that I should've said something.
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Nancy Wooton
On Jul 8, 2009, at 10:01 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
right. That was in the same book about how to spank properly, and I
haven't seen a copy in quite a few years, so I may not be quoting
exactly, but that's what I recall. It was the one bit of advice I
took to heart <g>
Even now, with kids age 19 and 21, it applies: they trust that we will
only say "no" if there is a really good reason, and they respect it.
Nancy
> A few years ago someone (Pam? Deb Lewis?) told of a radio parentingDr. James Dobson advised ten yesses for every one no, if I remember
> advisor (or ? magazine/tv?) who said children should hear "no" three
> times for every two yesses
right. That was in the same book about how to spank properly, and I
haven't seen a copy in quite a few years, so I may not be quoting
exactly, but that's what I recall. It was the one bit of advice I
took to heart <g>
Even now, with kids age 19 and 21, it applies: they trust that we will
only say "no" if there is a really good reason, and they respect it.
Nancy
Maisha Khalfani
That was in the same book about how to spank properly
Wow ..I cant say that Im sorry I missed that particular book
Namasté
Maisha Khalfani
<http://sevenfreespirits.blogspot.com/> 7 Free Spirits
"Children are little people who remember Who They Are; adults are big people
who have forgotten Who They Are."
~Maisha Khalfani
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Wow ..I cant say that Im sorry I missed that particular book
Namasté
Maisha Khalfani
<http://sevenfreespirits.blogspot.com/> 7 Free Spirits
"Children are little people who remember Who They Are; adults are big people
who have forgotten Who They Are."
~Maisha Khalfani
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
JoyErin
-= Saying "no" gets easier with practice. While parents can and should
grant kids' wishes when they can, it is expected and desirable to deny
them for reasons like those cited above. =-
Gets easier with practice? My first word/words were 'no' apparently, I
don't think I knew many more words for awhile either (those interpersonal
skills?). I'm pleased to be able to say that word was not any of the first
words for either of my children even though that was a part of my own
parenting.
Joy
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grant kids' wishes when they can, it is expected and desirable to deny
them for reasons like those cited above. =-
Gets easier with practice? My first word/words were 'no' apparently, I
don't think I knew many more words for awhile either (those interpersonal
skills?). I'm pleased to be able to say that word was not any of the first
words for either of my children even though that was a part of my own
parenting.
Joy
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05:53:00
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saturnfire16
--- In [email protected], "JoyErin" <joyerin@...> wrote:
Now, my second daughter just turned a year old yesterday. Occasionally, she shakes her head no, but it's not in response to us, it's more for the fun of it. More often, she nods yes, and that's adorable!
Emily
>When my first daughter was just over a year old, she started shaking her head no. It wasn't her first word, but I do remember her getting to "that age."
> Gets easier with practice? My first word/words were 'no' apparently, I
> don't think I knew many more words for awhile either (those interpersonal
> skills?). I'm pleased to be able to say that word was not any of the first
> words for either of my children even though that was a part of my own
> parenting.
>
> Joy
Now, my second daughter just turned a year old yesterday. Occasionally, she shakes her head no, but it's not in response to us, it's more for the fun of it. More often, she nods yes, and that's adorable!
Emily
>
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>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.5/2220 - Release Date: 07/08/09
> 05:53:00
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>
JoyErin
-= When my first daughter was just over a year old, she started shaking her
head no. It wasn't her first word, but I do remember her getting to "that
age." =-
ahhh.. I think my toddler no's might have been different. From stories I
think I was told no quite a lot even at that young age. Possibly that's was
most of the communication between myself and my single parent until I
learned to talk more (again so I've worked out from what I've been told).
That's why I questioned when it said parents need to learn to say no. I
don't think my being told 'no' a lot at that age and as time went on was
that unusual. I'd say it was probably more usual. One of the first things
I remembering reading as a young parent, before unschooling, was instead of
saying no give them choices.
One of the stories of my toddlerhood and no was of reaching for something
but before touching it looking up and saying 'no?' I guess it must have
been pretty cute, to them, because it's still well remembered.
Who knows maybe I had some made up baby words first like my ds did but no
one caught on to them. <g>
Joy
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head no. It wasn't her first word, but I do remember her getting to "that
age." =-
ahhh.. I think my toddler no's might have been different. From stories I
think I was told no quite a lot even at that young age. Possibly that's was
most of the communication between myself and my single parent until I
learned to talk more (again so I've worked out from what I've been told).
That's why I questioned when it said parents need to learn to say no. I
don't think my being told 'no' a lot at that age and as time went on was
that unusual. I'd say it was probably more usual. One of the first things
I remembering reading as a young parent, before unschooling, was instead of
saying no give them choices.
One of the stories of my toddlerhood and no was of reaching for something
but before touching it looking up and saying 'no?' I guess it must have
been pretty cute, to them, because it's still well remembered.
Who knows maybe I had some made up baby words first like my ds did but no
one caught on to them. <g>
Joy
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Sylvia Toyama
Discussions about saying no vs. yes always remind me of a conversation my Mom and I had some years ago (back when we were on speaking terms). When my kids call my name, I've always answered with 'yes?' because I just think it's kinder and indicates my willingness to be available to them. She felt it was better to answer with "what?" because when kids hear yes, they naturally assume the answer will be yes to everything. I consider answering "what" to be rude.
Just one of our many differences. I'm ever so glad it's my habit to say yes to my kids.
Sylvia
Just one of our many differences. I'm ever so glad it's my habit to say yes to my kids.
Sylvia
--- On Wed, 7/8/09, JoyErin <joyerin@...> wrote:
From: JoyErin <joyerin@...>
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning] Saying no, a question...
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 10:43 PM
-= Saying "no" gets easier with practice. While parents can and should
grant kids' wishes when they can, it is expected and desirable to deny
them for reasons like those cited above. =-
Gets easier with practice? My first word/words were 'no' apparently, I
don't think I knew many more words for awhile either (those interpersonal
skills?). I'm pleased to be able to say that word was not any of the first
words for either of my children even though that was a part of my own
parenting.
Joy
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.5/2220 - Release Date: 07/08/09
05:53:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
The ability to say no seems to be a really big cool wonderful feeling to
some 1 to 2 year old kids. Roya was very very intensely into "no" for a
while -- we'd offer her something that she definitely wanted and she'd
say, intensely, "NO!!" And then reach out for it. It must be the
reaction to getting a clue that they are completely separate organisms
from their mother or other people and the first real grasp that they can
have control of their own lives. My other two weren't nearly as extreme
in their "no's," but did some of it, too.
-pam
some 1 to 2 year old kids. Roya was very very intensely into "no" for a
while -- we'd offer her something that she definitely wanted and she'd
say, intensely, "NO!!" And then reach out for it. It must be the
reaction to getting a clue that they are completely separate organisms
from their mother or other people and the first real grasp that they can
have control of their own lives. My other two weren't nearly as extreme
in their "no's," but did some of it, too.
-pam
On 7/9/2009 1:05 AM, saturnfire16 wrote:
> Now, my second daughter just turned a year old yesterday. Occasionally, she shakes her head no, but it's not in response to us, it's more for the fun of it. More often, she nods yes, and that's adorable!
>
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Last night we all went to a BBQ at another Dairy Farm where they are holding a cow sale today.
There where lots of people there for it and looking at the cows pre-sale. It was already dark as many dairy farmers can only make it after they do their afternoon/evening chores.
My 7 year old son Naruto started playing with some other 6 boys that were there age from around 7 til 12 y.o..He said he was having lots of fun.
So they are playing tag in a big barn that was mostly empty and safe. I walked there and I explained to him that the farm had a huge manure pit ( like a huge open place where all the liquid manure is stored- extremely dangerous), lots of huge trucks and tractors coming in and out and that some people could have been drinking too much and asked him if he could stay in that huge barn that was safe. Two of the other kids said: " what we cannot go out of the barn?"
And instantly walked out just to prove the point that he could. So I made a joke about it and talked to my son in Portuguese and he was OK with playing in the barn and being safe.
Do you think that kid got a lot of "nos".
A little later on my son had enough of the kids when they started playing all over the farm and he did not fell totally safe and he hung out with me for the rest of the time he was there.
It was pretty caotic there so not really a safe place for kids wandering in a very dark night
(overcast so no moon). My son trusted me and he knew it was not a "no" but a real concern.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There where lots of people there for it and looking at the cows pre-sale. It was already dark as many dairy farmers can only make it after they do their afternoon/evening chores.
My 7 year old son Naruto started playing with some other 6 boys that were there age from around 7 til 12 y.o..He said he was having lots of fun.
So they are playing tag in a big barn that was mostly empty and safe. I walked there and I explained to him that the farm had a huge manure pit ( like a huge open place where all the liquid manure is stored- extremely dangerous), lots of huge trucks and tractors coming in and out and that some people could have been drinking too much and asked him if he could stay in that huge barn that was safe. Two of the other kids said: " what we cannot go out of the barn?"
And instantly walked out just to prove the point that he could. So I made a joke about it and talked to my son in Portuguese and he was OK with playing in the barn and being safe.
Do you think that kid got a lot of "nos".
A little later on my son had enough of the kids when they started playing all over the farm and he did not fell totally safe and he hung out with me for the rest of the time he was there.
It was pretty caotic there so not really a safe place for kids wandering in a very dark night
(overcast so no moon). My son trusted me and he knew it was not a "no" but a real concern.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jenbgosh
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
John Rosemond is a truly horrible man.
> And he's working with problem children, not with NON-problem
> children. I wonder if he's ever even seen or known kids who had
> vigorous mental health? <g>
Actually he is a syndicated columnist who does advise normal everyday parents about normal everyday kid behavior, and his advice is mean and abusive. I wrote to my local newspaper and asked them to stop running Rosemond's column after a particularly heinous column where he responded to the mother of a kindergartener who wrote that her son came home from kindergarten with an "attitude complete with rolling of the eyes and sassy talk." Rosemond's advice? Put the five year old in his room by himself all day.
Rosemond went on to say that the next day Mom should ask the child, "Are you going to force me to confine you to your room today?" In other words, blame the child for the parent's abusive behavior. In countless columns he has advocated this type of punishment. Most times he instructs parents to remove all items from the child's room except those necessary for doing homework. If they jump through the right hoops, they can have one thing back per day (of the parent's choosing,) but of course they could lose it again too.
My local paper eventually stopped running the column about 2 years after they promised to run Rosemond one week and some other advice columnist every other week for "balance." (which they never did.)
But how does this relate to unschooling? I used to read Rosemond's column to my daughter and she would predict his response, and then she'd tell me what she thought a better approach would be. Not surprisingly, we nearly always agreed on the best way to handle the "problem child."
Jennie
[email protected]
But how does this relate to unschooling? I used to read Rosemond's column to my daughter and she would predict his response, and then she'd tell me what she thought a better approach would be. Not surprisingly, we nearly always agreed on the best way to handle the "problem child."
________________________
John Rosemond is also one of the columnists in our local paper.? It's printed weekly here and I will say that Brenna and I often talk about the kind of advice he gives.
Here, where we live in the South, he shows up as a parenting -expert speaker at various events.? I don't believe he is a very nice person but I know so many parents
who treat their children just as he advises.
We can look around at teens we know (some in our extended family) who have been parented "John Rosemond" style and the difficult relationships they have within their families and some of the poor choices they are making as a result of that type of parenting.? It's certainly been a good example of "what not to do as a parent" for my children.
I'm hopeful that, in spite of the John Rosemonds of the world, more peaceful parenting practices will prevail as our children help take them into the next generation and beyond.
Gail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________
John Rosemond is also one of the columnists in our local paper.? It's printed weekly here and I will say that Brenna and I often talk about the kind of advice he gives.
Here, where we live in the South, he shows up as a parenting -expert speaker at various events.? I don't believe he is a very nice person but I know so many parents
who treat their children just as he advises.
We can look around at teens we know (some in our extended family) who have been parented "John Rosemond" style and the difficult relationships they have within their families and some of the poor choices they are making as a result of that type of parenting.? It's certainly been a good example of "what not to do as a parent" for my children.
I'm hopeful that, in spite of the John Rosemonds of the world, more peaceful parenting practices will prevail as our children help take them into the next generation and beyond.
Gail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meryl Ranzer
I just read about parnet's as friends in Scott Noelle's Daily Groove
today.
http://www.enjoyparenting.com/daily-groove/friend
He says: "Why not be a parent AND a friend? After all, a friend is
anyone you know, like, and trust � all worthy qualities of a parent-
child relationship."
This really hit home for me.
When we were kids my mom played the friend and mom card, whichever
suited her purposes at the time.
It was very confusing for my sister and I.
To have a mom say, " You can tell me, I'm your mother and your friend".
Then, we would confide in her and get punished for it...some friend.
I did not realize how deeply this had effected me until I read the
Daily Groove today, and the list about sayin "No" that Sandra posted
today. My mom used to say, "Because I said so". It was like chalk on a
blackboard to me.
We have an excellent relationship now after years of me setting
boundaries.
I am and will continue to be a great friend to my son.
Meryl
Meryl Ranzer
mranzer@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
today.
http://www.enjoyparenting.com/daily-groove/friend
He says: "Why not be a parent AND a friend? After all, a friend is
anyone you know, like, and trust � all worthy qualities of a parent-
child relationship."
This really hit home for me.
When we were kids my mom played the friend and mom card, whichever
suited her purposes at the time.
It was very confusing for my sister and I.
To have a mom say, " You can tell me, I'm your mother and your friend".
Then, we would confide in her and get punished for it...some friend.
I did not realize how deeply this had effected me until I read the
Daily Groove today, and the list about sayin "No" that Sandra posted
today. My mom used to say, "Because I said so". It was like chalk on a
blackboard to me.
We have an excellent relationship now after years of me setting
boundaries.
I am and will continue to be a great friend to my son.
Meryl
Meryl Ranzer
mranzer@...
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Ren Allen
--- In [email protected], Meryl Ranzer <mranzer@...> wrote:
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
>I just posted Pam's writing on this a couple weeks ago: http://radicalunschooling.blogspot.com/2009/06/being-your-childs-friend.html
> I just read about parnet's as friends in Scott Noelle's Daily Groove
> today.
>
> http://www.enjoyparenting.com/daily-groove/friend
>
> He says: "Why not be a parent AND a friend? After all, a friend is
> anyone you know, like, and trust all worthy qualities of a parent-
> child relationship."
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
jenbgosh
OK Sorry! The way I wrote the post below, I made it look like Sandra had called John Rosemond a truly horrible man. She didn't. I did. And I want full credit for it. :)
Jennie
Jennie
--- In [email protected], "jenbgosh" <pcjen@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@> wrote:
>
> John Rosemond is a truly horrible man.
>
> > And he's working with problem children, not with NON-problem
> > children. I wonder if he's ever even seen or known kids who had
> > vigorous mental health? <g>
>
> Actually he is a syndicated columnist who does advise normal everyday parents about normal everyday kid behavior, and his advice is mean and abusive. I wrote to my local newspaper and asked them to stop running Rosemond's column after a particularly heinous column where he responded to the mother of a kindergartener who wrote that her son came home from kindergarten with an "attitude complete with rolling of the eyes and sassy talk." Rosemond's advice? Put the five year old in his room by himself all day.
>
> Rosemond went on to say that the next day Mom should ask the child, "Are you going to force me to confine you to your room today?" In other words, blame the child for the parent's abusive behavior. In countless columns he has advocated this type of punishment. Most times he instructs parents to remove all items from the child's room except those necessary for doing homework. If they jump through the right hoops, they can have one thing back per day (of the parent's choosing,) but of course they could lose it again too.
>
> My local paper eventually stopped running the column about 2 years after they promised to run Rosemond one week and some other advice columnist every other week for "balance." (which they never did.)
>
> But how does this relate to unschooling? I used to read Rosemond's column to my daughter and she would predict his response, and then she'd tell me what she thought a better approach would be. Not surprisingly, we nearly always agreed on the best way to handle the "problem child."
>
> Jennie
>
Anne Mills
The ability to say no seems to be a really big cool wonderful feeling to some 1 to 2 year old kids.
*****exactly true to my daughter's sense of no and it can me pick me up, hug me sometime at my home.Last night we played horsey on mattresses on the floor and they laughed so hard and the no seem to have been about ''more of that stuff mom''...Perhaps i m not sure.
Anne Mills
To: [email protected]
From: pamsoroosh@...
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 07:34:33 -0700
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Saying no, a question...
The ability to say no seems to be a really big cool wonderful feeling to
some 1 to 2 year old kids. Roya was very very intensely into "no" for a
while -- we'd offer her something that she definitely wanted and she'd
say, intensely, "NO!!" And then reach out for it. It must be the
reaction to getting a clue that they are completely separate organisms
from their mother or other people and the first real grasp that they can
have control of their own lives. My other two weren't nearly as extreme
in their "no's," but did some of it, too.
-pam
*****exactly true to my daughter's sense of no and it can me pick me up, hug me sometime at my home.Last night we played horsey on mattresses on the floor and they laughed so hard and the no seem to have been about ''more of that stuff mom''...Perhaps i m not sure.
Anne Mills
To: [email protected]
From: pamsoroosh@...
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 07:34:33 -0700
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Saying no, a question...
The ability to say no seems to be a really big cool wonderful feeling to
some 1 to 2 year old kids. Roya was very very intensely into "no" for a
while -- we'd offer her something that she definitely wanted and she'd
say, intensely, "NO!!" And then reach out for it. It must be the
reaction to getting a clue that they are completely separate organisms
from their mother or other people and the first real grasp that they can
have control of their own lives. My other two weren't nearly as extreme
in their "no's," but did some of it, too.
-pam
On 7/9/2009 1:05 AM, saturnfire16 wrote:
> Now, my second daughter just turned a year old yesterday. Occasionally, she shakes her head no, but it's not in response to us, it's more for the fun of it. More often, she nods yes, and that's adorable!
>
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