Blah, blah, fricking blah
Sandra Dodd
"Blah, blah, fricking BLAH."
Ren wrote that, about parents saying things about Barbie and makeup.
I just wanted to quote it. "Blah, blah, fricking BLAH."
I added a line to the 'how to screw it up' list about talking TOO much
to kids. Explaining things they don't understand or don't care about
or that seem crazy to them will sound like "Blah, blah, fricking BLAH."
One guy (who might have joined this list, which would be fine) wrote
that he always knelt down to talk to his child so he wasn't talking
down to her. "Talking down" to someone has little to do with
relative height. Sometimes when people write about problems they're
having with their children and they tell the story, they'll use
phrases like "mommy needs her rest" or "this is bothering
brother." Children will learn to speak properly sooner and more
easily if their mothers speak English as it was intended, too. **It
bothers Sandra when other mommykins talk baby talk to their babas and
then ask listowner how their babyses can learn to use their right
words to mama.**
Words have power, and sometimes it's the power to make life
irritating, and to make communication insipid. It can make the child
think the mom isn't very bright. It sets a separation between the
things you want the child to know are communicated toward him (the
baby talk) and real world communications (when you start using
personal pronouns and names). Let the world be all one thing. Let
your children be a part of it.
Something I wrote in the Barbie discussion, to Ren, was:
"You have politely or tactfully said that a parent's judgment causes a
child to doubt herself. In my life, my self confidence was strong, and
my mother's judgment caused me to doubt her, and then resent her, and
eventually to ignore her opinion entirely. That never did hurt me,
though, nor her, because her mothering instinct was never switched on
well at all, though she had three children."
It is possible, I know from my own experience, for a child to have
little regard for a parent's opinion. Make your opinions valuable by
not expressing worthless opinions. Tadaa! Easy!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren wrote that, about parents saying things about Barbie and makeup.
I just wanted to quote it. "Blah, blah, fricking BLAH."
I added a line to the 'how to screw it up' list about talking TOO much
to kids. Explaining things they don't understand or don't care about
or that seem crazy to them will sound like "Blah, blah, fricking BLAH."
One guy (who might have joined this list, which would be fine) wrote
that he always knelt down to talk to his child so he wasn't talking
down to her. "Talking down" to someone has little to do with
relative height. Sometimes when people write about problems they're
having with their children and they tell the story, they'll use
phrases like "mommy needs her rest" or "this is bothering
brother." Children will learn to speak properly sooner and more
easily if their mothers speak English as it was intended, too. **It
bothers Sandra when other mommykins talk baby talk to their babas and
then ask listowner how their babyses can learn to use their right
words to mama.**
Words have power, and sometimes it's the power to make life
irritating, and to make communication insipid. It can make the child
think the mom isn't very bright. It sets a separation between the
things you want the child to know are communicated toward him (the
baby talk) and real world communications (when you start using
personal pronouns and names). Let the world be all one thing. Let
your children be a part of it.
Something I wrote in the Barbie discussion, to Ren, was:
"You have politely or tactfully said that a parent's judgment causes a
child to doubt herself. In my life, my self confidence was strong, and
my mother's judgment caused me to doubt her, and then resent her, and
eventually to ignore her opinion entirely. That never did hurt me,
though, nor her, because her mothering instinct was never switched on
well at all, though she had three children."
It is possible, I know from my own experience, for a child to have
little regard for a parent's opinion. Make your opinions valuable by
not expressing worthless opinions. Tadaa! Easy!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jason & Stephanie
Sometimes when people write about problems they're
having with their children and they tell the story, they'll use
phrases like "mommy needs her rest" or "this is bothering
brother." Children will learn to speak properly sooner and more
easily if their mothers speak English as it was intended, too. **It
bothers Sandra when other mommykins talk baby talk to their babas and
then ask listowner how their babyses can learn to use their right
words to mama.**
***************This is so true. I talked to my babies right from the start like they were people. I mean obviously they are people but they aren't always perceived that way.
I would carry them around, tell them what I was doing, point things out. I didn't use baby talk, I used real words.
My kids all speak very well and use a variety of words.
Stephanie
http://www.learningthroughliving-stephanie.blogspot.com
"It's not that I feel that school is a good idea gone wrong," he says, "but a wrong idea from the word go. It's a nutty notion that we can have a place where nothing but learning happens, cut off from the rest of life."
~John Holt
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
having with their children and they tell the story, they'll use
phrases like "mommy needs her rest" or "this is bothering
brother." Children will learn to speak properly sooner and more
easily if their mothers speak English as it was intended, too. **It
bothers Sandra when other mommykins talk baby talk to their babas and
then ask listowner how their babyses can learn to use their right
words to mama.**
***************This is so true. I talked to my babies right from the start like they were people. I mean obviously they are people but they aren't always perceived that way.
I would carry them around, tell them what I was doing, point things out. I didn't use baby talk, I used real words.
My kids all speak very well and use a variety of words.
Stephanie
http://www.learningthroughliving-stephanie.blogspot.com
"It's not that I feel that school is a good idea gone wrong," he says, "but a wrong idea from the word go. It's a nutty notion that we can have a place where nothing but learning happens, cut off from the rest of life."
~John Holt
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marina DeLuca-Howard
I totally agree about baby-talk being disrespectful and counterproductive.
I spoke to my kids with the same level of respect and using the same
language as my partner, while in the sling. My expectations for their
responses was fairly realistic. But I still remember when my oldest used
the word exacerbate at the playground--he was two and a half!
I also remember a dad trying to teach his infant French. He wasn't French,
and the broken French was so painful to hear. I understand if one's
cultural heritage is involved and speaking two or three languages is common,
like in Switzerland, but it seems silly to want your child "fluent" in a
language you can't speak. I think communication is the key to learning to
speak and any other agenda should be on hold.
Marina
--
Life is always happening
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I spoke to my kids with the same level of respect and using the same
language as my partner, while in the sling. My expectations for their
responses was fairly realistic. But I still remember when my oldest used
the word exacerbate at the playground--he was two and a half!
I also remember a dad trying to teach his infant French. He wasn't French,
and the broken French was so painful to hear. I understand if one's
cultural heritage is involved and speaking two or three languages is common,
like in Switzerland, but it seems silly to want your child "fluent" in a
language you can't speak. I think communication is the key to learning to
speak and any other agenda should be on hold.
Marina
--
Life is always happening
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
>I'm laughing so hard now. That's not the phrase I thought I'd ever get QUOTED for!! :) When I die, please quote that at my memorial...someone.
> Ren wrote that, about parents saying things about Barbie and makeup.
>
> I just wanted to quote it. "Blah, blah, fricking BLAH."
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Sandra Dodd
-=- When I die, please quote that at my memorial...someone.-=-
Perhaps the service could be written with congregational responses.
The minister speaks, the people intone reverently...blah blah frickin'
blah.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Perhaps the service could be written with congregational responses.
The minister speaks, the people intone reverently...blah blah frickin'
blah.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kathryn
--Explaining things they don't understand or don't care about or that seem crazy to them will sound like "Blah, blah, fricking BLAH."--
This is true! Here's a perfect example. About a year ago when Mia was 6, I wanted to educate her on the evils of sweatshop, child labour, etc. She often asked me why I didn't like them, and I would tell her that Barbie was not made with love, but by some poor individual working a job they didn't like for close to no money. One night I sat her on my knee at the computer while I perused the net to find some sort of image to support my statements. I figured something visual would have more of a lasting impact. I asked her what she thought of it all and she responded along the lines of, "Can you show me pictures of them making a Barbie?" 'Blah, blah, fricking BLAH' alright! Her focus was on how the dolls are made, not the plight of the worker. The lesson I learnt was load and clear -- "DON'T PREACH!!" I very quickly hopped off my soap box. I was doing *exactly* what most dislike; being told what to think. Absolutely NOT unschooling. Needless to say I do a lot more listening, and a lot less talking!
Kathryn
This is true! Here's a perfect example. About a year ago when Mia was 6, I wanted to educate her on the evils of sweatshop, child labour, etc. She often asked me why I didn't like them, and I would tell her that Barbie was not made with love, but by some poor individual working a job they didn't like for close to no money. One night I sat her on my knee at the computer while I perused the net to find some sort of image to support my statements. I figured something visual would have more of a lasting impact. I asked her what she thought of it all and she responded along the lines of, "Can you show me pictures of them making a Barbie?" 'Blah, blah, fricking BLAH' alright! Her focus was on how the dolls are made, not the plight of the worker. The lesson I learnt was load and clear -- "DON'T PREACH!!" I very quickly hopped off my soap box. I was doing *exactly* what most dislike; being told what to think. Absolutely NOT unschooling. Needless to say I do a lot more listening, and a lot less talking!
Kathryn
diana jenner
I tried this tactic with my kids, too & I got: "How are they gonna eat if we
don't buy this????"
A reminder, once again, that politics must be put aside to honor one's
children... (says the mama who's been in wal-mart more often than I like,
and not nearly as often as her son would like!)
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
don't buy this????"
A reminder, once again, that politics must be put aside to honor one's
children... (says the mama who's been in wal-mart more often than I like,
and not nearly as often as her son would like!)
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Kathryn <kathryndubay@...>wrote:
>
>
>
> --Explaining things they don't understand or don't care about or that seem
> crazy to them will sound like "Blah, blah, fricking BLAH."--
>
> This is true! Here's a perfect example. About a year ago when Mia was 6, I
> wanted to educate her on the evils of sweatshop, child labour, etc. She
> often asked me why I didn't like them, and I would tell her that Barbie was
> not made with love, but by some poor individual working a job they didn't
> like for close to no money. One night I sat her on my knee at the computer
> while I perused the net to find some sort of image to support my statements.
> I figured something visual would have more of a lasting impact. I asked her
> what she thought of it all and she responded along the lines of, "Can you
> show me pictures of them making a Barbie?" 'Blah, blah, fricking BLAH'
> alright! Her focus was on how the dolls are made, not the plight of the
> worker. The lesson I learnt was load and clear -- "DON'T PREACH!!" I very
> quickly hopped off my soap box. I was doing *exactly* what most dislike;
> being told what to think. Absolutely NOT unschooling. Needless to say I do a
> lot more listening, and a lot less talking!
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
--- In [email protected], diana jenner <hahamommy@...> wrote:
I believe there are much better ways to help a country become progressive personally, but it's good to look at lots of different views and not get too entrenched in our own "values".
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
>It may have been Meredith over at Unschooling Basics who posted an essay exploring the positive side of sweat shops....not that I'm in favor but it was an interesting perspective. It talked about how it is part of the evolution of a nation becoming more progressive and they can't have a labor force ready for technology jobs until they go through the industrial portion first, which in some cases includes sweat shops.
> I tried this tactic with my kids, too & I got: "How are they gonna eat if we
> don't buy this????"
>
I believe there are much better ways to help a country become progressive personally, but it's good to look at lots of different views and not get too entrenched in our own "values".
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Danielle Conger
Ren Allen wrote:
was reading. I know she reads here as well.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (11), Julia (10), Sam (9)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
>It was Su, and maybe she'll be along to post the title of the book she
>
> It may have been Meredith over at Unschooling Basics who posted an
> essay exploring the positive side of sweat shops....not that I'm in
> favor but it was an interesting perspective. It talked about how it is
> part of the evolution of a nation becoming more progressive and they
> can't have a labor force ready for technology jobs until they go
> through the industrial portion first, which in some cases includes
> sweat shops.
was reading. I know she reads here as well.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (11), Julia (10), Sam (9)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
Robyn L. Coburn
<<<"Can you show me pictures of them making a Barbie?" >>>>
Yes you can. The recent DVD release of "Barbie in A Christmas Carol" has a
featurette about the most recent Holiday Barbie being designed. A lucky mom
and daughter pair of collectors got to go behind the scenes at Mattel HQ and
see the prototype being designed, following the process from the costumer,
the makeup artist, the hair stylist (sewing into the head) and the packaging
makers. There may not be love in the factory in China, but there is in the
design center in California.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
Yes you can. The recent DVD release of "Barbie in A Christmas Carol" has a
featurette about the most recent Holiday Barbie being designed. A lucky mom
and daughter pair of collectors got to go behind the scenes at Mattel HQ and
see the prototype being designed, following the process from the costumer,
the makeup artist, the hair stylist (sewing into the head) and the packaging
makers. There may not be love in the factory in China, but there is in the
design center in California.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
Sandra Dodd
Our prejudice against sweatshops and call centers in India and such
parallels the prejudices against "primitive cultures" by the
Victorians. It's not a good topic for this list, really, except to
remind people to try not to assume that everyone wants to be like we
are, or could if they wanted to, or that American "compassion" for
undeveloped nations doesn't have a hefty base of job protection.
International business is all the rage on the news (TV, newspaper,
magazine, internet, radio) so take it with a grain of salt, don't get
emotional if it doesn't directly affect your family and don't burden
your kids with things that will have changed twice or three times by
the time they're old enough to decide whether to care on their own as
adults.
That is my sermonette before going to bed. Blah, blah, frickin' blah,
sayeth the listowner.
Sandra
parallels the prejudices against "primitive cultures" by the
Victorians. It's not a good topic for this list, really, except to
remind people to try not to assume that everyone wants to be like we
are, or could if they wanted to, or that American "compassion" for
undeveloped nations doesn't have a hefty base of job protection.
International business is all the rage on the news (TV, newspaper,
magazine, internet, radio) so take it with a grain of salt, don't get
emotional if it doesn't directly affect your family and don't burden
your kids with things that will have changed twice or three times by
the time they're old enough to decide whether to care on their own as
adults.
That is my sermonette before going to bed. Blah, blah, frickin' blah,
sayeth the listowner.
Sandra
Su Penn
On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:00 PM, Danielle Conger wrote:
I think the book I mentioned over there was Why Globalization Works by
Martin Wolf, but if I'd been thinking more carefully when I posted I'd
have been clear that my point wasn't to get into a pro/anti-buy-from-
China argument, but to say that when it comes to dealing with our kids
it can help to remember that perfectly reasonable, smart, well-
informed people (experts even!) can have a different perspective than
we do. How that works for me is that I try to remember that no matter
how much I think I know about something or how strongly I feel about
it, I could very well be wrong. Or, more likely, there are
perspectives I haven't thought of or been exposed to.
So I don't give my kids my radical ideological version of things (not
even about unschooling!), and I stay open to the possibility that they
will disagree with me about some things. I wouldn't give one of my
kids the "that Barbie was made by an exploited child" talk in part
because I have read a whole lot about globalization with the result
that, while I am concerned about child labor and other labor abuses, I
am also mindful of the enormous benefits to many Chinese people from
the liberalization of their economy. Globalization is one of many
issues that, the more I have tried to educate myself about it, open-
mindedly reading materials from a number of experts who have varying
perspectives, the less I know what I should think or do!
Su
mom of Eric, 8; Carl, 5; Yehva, 22 months
> It was Su, and maybe she'll be along to post the title of the book sheOh, yes, because I love opening that can of worms!
> was reading. I know she reads here as well.
I think the book I mentioned over there was Why Globalization Works by
Martin Wolf, but if I'd been thinking more carefully when I posted I'd
have been clear that my point wasn't to get into a pro/anti-buy-from-
China argument, but to say that when it comes to dealing with our kids
it can help to remember that perfectly reasonable, smart, well-
informed people (experts even!) can have a different perspective than
we do. How that works for me is that I try to remember that no matter
how much I think I know about something or how strongly I feel about
it, I could very well be wrong. Or, more likely, there are
perspectives I haven't thought of or been exposed to.
So I don't give my kids my radical ideological version of things (not
even about unschooling!), and I stay open to the possibility that they
will disagree with me about some things. I wouldn't give one of my
kids the "that Barbie was made by an exploited child" talk in part
because I have read a whole lot about globalization with the result
that, while I am concerned about child labor and other labor abuses, I
am also mindful of the enormous benefits to many Chinese people from
the liberalization of their economy. Globalization is one of many
issues that, the more I have tried to educate myself about it, open-
mindedly reading materials from a number of experts who have varying
perspectives, the less I know what I should think or do!
Su
mom of Eric, 8; Carl, 5; Yehva, 22 months
Ren Allen
~~I'd have been clear that my point wasn't to get into a pro/anti-buy-from- China argument, but to say that when it comes to dealing with our kids it can help to remember that perfectly reasonable, smart, well-
informed people (experts even!) can have a different perspective than
we do~~
Yes!
I'm so glad you came along to post about that because I couldn't remember enough to find the information again....obviously, since I couldn't remember who posted it.:)
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
informed people (experts even!) can have a different perspective than
we do~~
Yes!
I'm so glad you came along to post about that because I couldn't remember enough to find the information again....obviously, since I couldn't remember who posted it.:)
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Danielle Conger
Su Penn wrote:
the issues are and that as much as we might want to save the world, it's
not as simple as denying our kids plastic toys.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (11), Julia (10), Sam (9)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
>Well, maybe not, but I think it's helpful to point out how complex all
>
>
> Oh, yes, because I love opening that can of worms!
>
the issues are and that as much as we might want to save the world, it's
not as simple as denying our kids plastic toys.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (11), Julia (10), Sam (9)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
Sandra Dodd
-= Or, more likely, there are
perspectives I haven't thought of or been exposed to.=-
When I tell my kids anything about socio-politics or science I say
"They're saying lately that..." or "Some people think that..." because
I'm old enough to have seen things flipflop and twist in my lifetime
from one extreme to the other, and I take all medical pronouncements
with a grain of salt and a gallon of water (not tea or juice) or wait,
no, much less than a gallon of water (and of course other liquids are
fine; what idiot would have said otherwise?) or as health food lots of
bread a grains and never use butter EEEEK wait, not so much bread, and
butter turns out to be better than margarine and THAT IS THAT FOREVER.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
perspectives I haven't thought of or been exposed to.=-
When I tell my kids anything about socio-politics or science I say
"They're saying lately that..." or "Some people think that..." because
I'm old enough to have seen things flipflop and twist in my lifetime
from one extreme to the other, and I take all medical pronouncements
with a grain of salt and a gallon of water (not tea or juice) or wait,
no, much less than a gallon of water (and of course other liquids are
fine; what idiot would have said otherwise?) or as health food lots of
bread a grains and never use butter EEEEK wait, not so much bread, and
butter turns out to be better than margarine and THAT IS THAT FOREVER.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kathryn
"no matter how much I think I know about something or how strongly I feel about it, I could very well be wrong. Or, more likely, there are
perspectives I haven't thought of or been exposed to."
Su -- you weren't unschooled by any chance???
Years ago I crashed and burned (pre-kiddies) and suffered a devastating depressive episode. I remember at the time, the most scariest thing about it all, was my fear of not *knowing*. Not only the building blocks of my life over my (then) 26 years of life had fallen, but the very foundation crumbled and it was all a little scary, to say the least! What if everything I *knew* was wrong? Who was I to *tell* someone how it all is? In hindsight, it was THE best thing that happened to me! It triggered a questioning of everything. My foundations are no longer *solid*, but bendy, stretchy! I like being bendy, stretchy, because it allows me to see through new eyes. Unfortunately, every now and then my foundations start to solidify. My kids do a pretty good job of knocking them down! For the more *set* pieces, seasoned unschoolers such as yourself pound them down! Love it!
Kathryn
perspectives I haven't thought of or been exposed to."
Su -- you weren't unschooled by any chance???
Years ago I crashed and burned (pre-kiddies) and suffered a devastating depressive episode. I remember at the time, the most scariest thing about it all, was my fear of not *knowing*. Not only the building blocks of my life over my (then) 26 years of life had fallen, but the very foundation crumbled and it was all a little scary, to say the least! What if everything I *knew* was wrong? Who was I to *tell* someone how it all is? In hindsight, it was THE best thing that happened to me! It triggered a questioning of everything. My foundations are no longer *solid*, but bendy, stretchy! I like being bendy, stretchy, because it allows me to see through new eyes. Unfortunately, every now and then my foundations start to solidify. My kids do a pretty good job of knocking them down! For the more *set* pieces, seasoned unschoolers such as yourself pound them down! Love it!
Kathryn
Su Penn
On Jun 10, 2009, at 6:21 PM, Kathryn wrote:
ideological in my early and mid-20s. I was radical feminist/lesbian
separatist--I wouldn't read books by men, listen to music with men's
voices, let men in my house, I thought women who had children were
just pawns of the patriarchy, believed women in America were an
oppressed class akin to, say, slaves in ancient Egypt. Gradually I
realized how wrong I was about so many things (hello! married to a
man! three children! best friend is a man! some of my favorite books
are by men! recently discovered the music of Del McCoury, who is a
man, and can't get enough! Stay-at-home mom, which is in some sense
just the new PC word for "housewife"!). I thought lesbians were the
highest evolution of humanity.
My best friend (and lover for a long time) back then used to joke that
she was going to have "Dyke" tattoo'd on her arm, and if she ever
decided she wasn't a lesbian anymore, she'd just cut her arm off.
Ha ha ha ha. Joke's on us--he's a man now. (still my best friend)
At our house, we never say "never" anymore, having had to eat our
words too many times in the past. Heck, David and I are big ol'
homebodies and yet we both, independently, recently started to think
that it would be a neat thing to take the kids somewhere overseas to
live for awhile in a few years. Maybe we'll do it; maybe we won't. But
not that long ago, we would have said, "Our ideal vacation takes place
within three hours of home and lasts no more than 5 days. We would
never travel abroad for months on end." Now we can't say "never" about
that anymore--we can imagine it now, at least. [*cough* midlife crisis
*cough*]
But it was that sense that I could not have believed any harder in the
things I believed, and they were wrong. Some things had a kernel of
truth stretched to an outrageous extreme; some didn't even have that
kernel. And some really were man-hating dressed up in a veneer of what
we called "woman-loving."
So now, whatever I believe, there's this little bit of, "Wow, I was
really wrong back then. I could be wrong about this, too."
Su, dupe of the patriarchy, possessor of false consciousness, and
servant of the penis-people in her life
mom of Eric, 8 (future patriarch); Carl, 5 (future oppressor); Yehva,
22 months (future empowered Womoon of Color)
> Su -- you weren't unschooled by any chance???Ha ha ha ha ha ha *snort* *wipes tears* ha ha ha
>For me it wasn't a depressive episode--it was being extremely
> Years ago I crashed and burned (pre-kiddies) and suffered a
> devastating depressive episode. I remember at the time, the most
> scariest thing about it all, was my fear of not *knowing*. Not only
> the building blocks of my life over my (then) 26 years of life had
> fallen, but the very foundation crumbled and it was all a little
> scary, to say the least! What if everything I *knew* was wrong?
> Who was I to *tell* someone how it all is? In hindsight, it was THE
> best thing that happened to me! It triggered a questioning of
> everything. My foundations are no longer *solid*, but bendy,
> stretchy!
ideological in my early and mid-20s. I was radical feminist/lesbian
separatist--I wouldn't read books by men, listen to music with men's
voices, let men in my house, I thought women who had children were
just pawns of the patriarchy, believed women in America were an
oppressed class akin to, say, slaves in ancient Egypt. Gradually I
realized how wrong I was about so many things (hello! married to a
man! three children! best friend is a man! some of my favorite books
are by men! recently discovered the music of Del McCoury, who is a
man, and can't get enough! Stay-at-home mom, which is in some sense
just the new PC word for "housewife"!). I thought lesbians were the
highest evolution of humanity.
My best friend (and lover for a long time) back then used to joke that
she was going to have "Dyke" tattoo'd on her arm, and if she ever
decided she wasn't a lesbian anymore, she'd just cut her arm off.
Ha ha ha ha. Joke's on us--he's a man now. (still my best friend)
At our house, we never say "never" anymore, having had to eat our
words too many times in the past. Heck, David and I are big ol'
homebodies and yet we both, independently, recently started to think
that it would be a neat thing to take the kids somewhere overseas to
live for awhile in a few years. Maybe we'll do it; maybe we won't. But
not that long ago, we would have said, "Our ideal vacation takes place
within three hours of home and lasts no more than 5 days. We would
never travel abroad for months on end." Now we can't say "never" about
that anymore--we can imagine it now, at least. [*cough* midlife crisis
*cough*]
But it was that sense that I could not have believed any harder in the
things I believed, and they were wrong. Some things had a kernel of
truth stretched to an outrageous extreme; some didn't even have that
kernel. And some really were man-hating dressed up in a veneer of what
we called "woman-loving."
So now, whatever I believe, there's this little bit of, "Wow, I was
really wrong back then. I could be wrong about this, too."
Su, dupe of the patriarchy, possessor of false consciousness, and
servant of the penis-people in her life
mom of Eric, 8 (future patriarch); Carl, 5 (future oppressor); Yehva,
22 months (future empowered Womoon of Color)
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
HA Su That is a great story!
When I was young I did NOT want to have kids at all. I wanted to be a career woman because that was what i wanted. I even graduated from Law School in Brazil!
I pestered my friends that co-slept and told them to let their kids Cry It Out between other things.
I have called every friend I had and apologized for it.
I also had no compassion for stay at home moms with a messy house - that was a biggie.
Well come take a look at my house!...and its not even bad today......
I was also a big city girl that loved surfing and the beach could never see my self anywhere far from the Ocean.
Here I am in Minnesota , living in a Dairy Farm in a small town and with my own big vegetable garden.
I now say never say never......
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
When I was young I did NOT want to have kids at all. I wanted to be a career woman because that was what i wanted. I even graduated from Law School in Brazil!
I pestered my friends that co-slept and told them to let their kids Cry It Out between other things.
I have called every friend I had and apologized for it.
I also had no compassion for stay at home moms with a messy house - that was a biggie.
Well come take a look at my house!...and its not even bad today......
I was also a big city girl that loved surfing and the beach could never see my self anywhere far from the Ocean.
Here I am in Minnesota , living in a Dairy Farm in a small town and with my own big vegetable garden.
I now say never say never......
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kelly_sturman
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
children, they they bother to listen at all, they may come
away with a whole different "truth" from the one we were
trying to share. Our family watched an example of this
play out just recently on a TV show we all like to watch
together, "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine." Our kids were
laughing out loud at the following exchange:
The space station's doctor (Bashir) and another character,
called Garak, were speaking. Garak is a habitual liar, and
Bashir told him the story of the boy who cries wolf, hoping
to get Garak to think about, and perhaps change his lying ways.
Bashir summed up the fable, saying: "If you lie all the time, no
one is going to believe you, even when you're telling the truth."
Garak, who is not human and has never heard the fable before,
replied: "Are you sure that's the point, Doctor?"
Bashir said: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "That you should never tell the same lie twice."
Yeah, for sure: lecturing people does not work!
And now the kids are busily working out alternate morals
for Aesop's fables! :-) Fun!
Kelly Sturman
>And if we wander over into the territory of lecturing our
> Explaining things they don't understand or don't care about
> or that seem crazy to them will sound like "Blah, blah, fricking BLAH."
children, they they bother to listen at all, they may come
away with a whole different "truth" from the one we were
trying to share. Our family watched an example of this
play out just recently on a TV show we all like to watch
together, "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine." Our kids were
laughing out loud at the following exchange:
The space station's doctor (Bashir) and another character,
called Garak, were speaking. Garak is a habitual liar, and
Bashir told him the story of the boy who cries wolf, hoping
to get Garak to think about, and perhaps change his lying ways.
Bashir summed up the fable, saying: "If you lie all the time, no
one is going to believe you, even when you're telling the truth."
Garak, who is not human and has never heard the fable before,
replied: "Are you sure that's the point, Doctor?"
Bashir said: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "That you should never tell the same lie twice."
Yeah, for sure: lecturing people does not work!
And now the kids are busily working out alternate morals
for Aesop's fables! :-) Fun!
Kelly Sturman
Ren Allen
~~So now, whatever I believe, there's this little bit of, "Wow, I was
really wrong back then. I could be wrong about this, too."~~
Yeah, my big foundation-crumbling experience was about leaving the church and religion I grew up within. Once that was shaken, everything started getting questioned.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
really wrong back then. I could be wrong about this, too."~~
Yeah, my big foundation-crumbling experience was about leaving the church and religion I grew up within. Once that was shaken, everything started getting questioned.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Nancy Wooton
On Jun 12, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Ren Allen wrote:
"And all the answers that I started with turned out questions in the
end."
Nancy
> ~~So now, whatever I believe, there's this little bit of, "Wow, I wasThere's a line in Allison Krauss's song, "Gravity," that I love:
> really wrong back then. I could be wrong about this, too."~~
>
> Yeah, my big foundation-crumbling experience was about leaving the
> church and religion I grew up within. Once that was shaken,
> everything started getting questioned.
>
> Ren
> radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
"And all the answers that I started with turned out questions in the
end."
Nancy
Three Mommies
This one made me laugh out loud Kelly!
Just yesterday I was trying to make a point while talking with Ethan. I
tapped his knee and said, "Did I tap your knee?"
Ethan: "I dunno. Maybe."
Me: " I did Ethan. You *saw* me do it."
Ethan: "Maybe it wasn't you."
Me: "Ethan, really, it was me. I'm the only person who could have done it."
Ethan: "No you're not. Maybe a ghost did it."
Me: "A ghost?"
Ethan: "Right. There's lots of things we don't know and can't prove and you
can't say for sure that there aren't ghosts. Maybe one just controlled your
hand and tapped my knee."
Me: "Ummm. OK, but I know I did it."
Ethan: "At least you think you know you did."
And I have to tell Ethan the phrase "Blah, blah, fricking BLAH." He always
says "Blah, blah, blah." when people tell him the obvious or bore him. He'll
love this version. Thanks, Ren :)
Peace,
Jean Elizabeth
http://3mommies.blogspot.com
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 12:12 PM, kelly_sturman <conspicuousfamily@...
Just yesterday I was trying to make a point while talking with Ethan. I
tapped his knee and said, "Did I tap your knee?"
Ethan: "I dunno. Maybe."
Me: " I did Ethan. You *saw* me do it."
Ethan: "Maybe it wasn't you."
Me: "Ethan, really, it was me. I'm the only person who could have done it."
Ethan: "No you're not. Maybe a ghost did it."
Me: "A ghost?"
Ethan: "Right. There's lots of things we don't know and can't prove and you
can't say for sure that there aren't ghosts. Maybe one just controlled your
hand and tapped my knee."
Me: "Ummm. OK, but I know I did it."
Ethan: "At least you think you know you did."
And I have to tell Ethan the phrase "Blah, blah, fricking BLAH." He always
says "Blah, blah, blah." when people tell him the obvious or bore him. He'll
love this version. Thanks, Ren :)
Peace,
Jean Elizabeth
http://3mommies.blogspot.com
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 12:12 PM, kelly_sturman <conspicuousfamily@...
> wrote:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> --- In [email protected] <AlwaysLearning%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> >
> > Explaining things they don't understand or don't care about
> > or that seem crazy to them will sound like "Blah, blah, fricking BLAH."
>
> And if we wander over into the territory of lecturing our
> children, they they bother to listen at all, they may come
> away with a whole different "truth" from the one we were
> trying to share. Our family watched an example of this
> play out just recently on a TV show we all like to watch
> together, "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine." Our kids were
> laughing out loud at the following exchange:
>
> The space station's doctor (Bashir) and another character,
> called Garak, were speaking. Garak is a habitual liar, and
> Bashir told him the story of the boy who cries wolf, hoping
> to get Garak to think about, and perhaps change his lying ways.
> Bashir summed up the fable, saying: "If you lie all the time, no
> one is going to believe you, even when you're telling the truth."
>
> Garak, who is not human and has never heard the fable before,
> replied: "Are you sure that's the point, Doctor?"
>
> Bashir said: "Of course. What else could it be?"
>
> Garak: "That you should never tell the same lie twice."
>
> Yeah, for sure: lecturing people does not work!
>
> And now the kids are busily working out alternate morals
> for Aesop's fables! :-) Fun!
>
> Kelly Sturman
>
>
>
Lyla Wolfenstein
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ethan: "Right. There's lots of things we don't know and can't prove and you
can't say for sure that there aren't ghosts. Maybe one just controlled your
hand and tapped my knee."
Me: "Ummm. OK, but I know I did it."
Ethan: "At least you think you know you did."
And I have to tell Ethan the phrase "Blah, blah, fricking BLAH." He always
says "Blah, blah, blah." when people tell him the obvious or bore him. He'll
love this version. Thanks, Ren :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.that sounds exactly like something my son might say!! what seems obvious and globally accepated to most people, he is willing to question and debate. :)
only, if i taught him that phrase, he wouldn't say "fricken" ;-)
Lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn L. Coburn
> And I have to tell Ethan the phrase "Blah, blah, fricking BLAH." He alwaysI wonder how people react to him saying "blah, blah, blah" to them. Or does
> says "Blah, blah, blah." when people tell him the obvious or bore him.>>>
he just say it to you later or behind his hand?
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
Sandra Dodd
-=-He always says "Blah, blah, blah." when people tell him the
obvious or bore him.-=-
"Always"? I'm wondering what Robyn's wondering.
It doesn't seem like a good idea. It's not funny if it's not funny...
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
obvious or bore him.-=-
"Always"? I'm wondering what Robyn's wondering.
It doesn't seem like a good idea. It's not funny if it's not funny...
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Three Mommies
Always is an exaggeration. He generally says it to me in reference to
something I've said or if he's recounting something that happened. Thinking
about it, I don't think he's ever used that phrase to anyone outside our
family. No wait, he does use it with his friends. Then he uses it as an
ending to a something they all already know like when they are repeating
lines from a TV show.
Peace,
Jean Elizabeth
http://3mommies.blogspot.com
something I've said or if he's recounting something that happened. Thinking
about it, I don't think he's ever used that phrase to anyone outside our
family. No wait, he does use it with his friends. Then he uses it as an
ending to a something they all already know like when they are repeating
lines from a TV show.
Peace,
Jean Elizabeth
http://3mommies.blogspot.com
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>
> -=-He always says "Blah, blah, blah." when people tell him the
> obvious or bore him.-=-
>
> "Always"? I'm wondering what Robyn's wondering.
>
> It doesn't seem like a good idea. It's not funny if it's not funny...
>
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Always is an exaggeration.-=-
It's good to be as clear and honest as possible in discussions such as
these, and even though it doesn't hurt anyone else or spoil the
discussion, noticing when one is exaggerating or generalizing is
valuable in thinking and seeing more clearly.
-=-He generally says it to me in reference to
something I've said or if he's recounting something that happened. -=-
I say it about a story I'm telling sometimes when I get to the part
where they already know or don't care, and it's like "time passed"
until I get to the next better part of the story.
I'm trying to think of what would happen if I said it to my husband or
one of my kids or one of my friends. I can think of a couple of
people I could envision saying it to in certain circumstances, but it
would be an indicator that I thought they weren't really thinking
about what they were saying.
Relationships can be built up or torn down, and helping our children
see which is what is helpful to everyone concerned.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's good to be as clear and honest as possible in discussions such as
these, and even though it doesn't hurt anyone else or spoil the
discussion, noticing when one is exaggerating or generalizing is
valuable in thinking and seeing more clearly.
-=-He generally says it to me in reference to
something I've said or if he's recounting something that happened. -=-
I say it about a story I'm telling sometimes when I get to the part
where they already know or don't care, and it's like "time passed"
until I get to the next better part of the story.
I'm trying to think of what would happen if I said it to my husband or
one of my kids or one of my friends. I can think of a couple of
people I could envision saying it to in certain circumstances, but it
would be an indicator that I thought they weren't really thinking
about what they were saying.
Relationships can be built up or torn down, and helping our children
see which is what is helpful to everyone concerned.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kelly_sturman
Ethan is so cool! He's using epistemology on you
(even if he doesn't know that's the word for it)!
Tell him hello from Amelia!
Kelly
(even if he doesn't know that's the word for it)!
Tell him hello from Amelia!
Kelly
--- In [email protected], Three Mommies <3mommies@...> wrote:
> Ethan: "At least you think you know you did."
Robyn L. Coburn
<<<< He generally says it to me in reference to
I suspected that it was going to be along these lines, with humor and in
appropriate situations.
However I think it's important not to leave an unclear story hanging in the
air to avoid creating yet another stupid myth about unschoolers along the
lines of "unschoolers don't care if their kids are rude to people" sitting
up there beside "unschoolers let their kids run wild" and "unschoolers don't
care about other people's furniture or public property".
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
> something I've said or if he's recounting something that happened.Jean Elizabeth, thanks for clarifying.
> Thinking
> about it, I don't think he's ever used that phrase to anyone outside our
> family. No wait, he does use it with his friends.>>>
I suspected that it was going to be along these lines, with humor and in
appropriate situations.
However I think it's important not to leave an unclear story hanging in the
air to avoid creating yet another stupid myth about unschoolers along the
lines of "unschoolers don't care if their kids are rude to people" sitting
up there beside "unschoolers let their kids run wild" and "unschoolers don't
care about other people's furniture or public property".
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com