Making a decision to home school again
Mary Hatfield
Presently, I am trying to make the decision of whether to keep my son in school or home school again. My eight year old son has attended some type of schooling since he was two years, from mother's day out programs, preschool and now first grade. I have a complicated relationship with my son as he was very sick when he was an infant and into his toddler years. I brought home a baby that would scream constantly and curl up in pain. He never wanted to be held, he just wanted to sit in his bouncy chair and rock. I took him to ER after ER, then doctor after doctor. I was told I was a hysterical first time parent and was sent home. I would have been glad to have been just hysterical, but it was later discovered that my son was very sick and the complications from that time are still present. He was not able to hear or speak until he was almost five years old. He taught himself how to lip read, and I was the only one who could understand him when he spoke. Because of this, my mom radar is still very tuned in and I rely a great deal on nonverbal cues and "reading him." Then I question myself wondering if I am really reading him correctly. His verbal skills are improving, but he still has difficulty expressing himself.
I was able to keep him in schools with small classrooms until he was to enter first grade. I enrolled him in a charter school with small classroom size and a kindergarten/first grade curriculum. I was assured that each child would be treated as an individual and get the help they needed. This turned out to be a nightmare as they dropped the kinder/first program and expanded the classroom sizes to 25. I had to pull him out in the middle of the year as he became more depressed and stared hating himself. I did school at home with a boxed curriculum and tried to find other homeschoolers. I attended every home school event I could with a toddler. Unfortunately there weren't many home school gatherings despite my constant networking. The other families explained to me that as families grew larger, lessons, co-ops, and other things go in the way of meeting. It wasn't as easy to get together as it used to be. My son was upset that he did not have any friends during the week, though I invited his friends over on weekends. I put him back in school this year so that he could be around people his own age.
School has not worked well. My son was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome and is considered too high functioning to be in a special education class, but is falling behind in the mainstream. He feels stupid and starts to cry when he sees the unfinished work sheets his teacher sends home. He is being bullied on the playground, and ostracized in the classroom. I've asked him if he wanted to home school, but he says he wants to home school and go to school. He says he did not have any friends last year and it is boring to be home. He will make up any excuse to stay home from school, and I let him do it.
Does anyone else have issues with their children being lonely or missing other kids? Will it go away in time? Is an eight year old capable of making this type of decision.
Thank you for your time and input!
Mary
I was able to keep him in schools with small classrooms until he was to enter first grade. I enrolled him in a charter school with small classroom size and a kindergarten/first grade curriculum. I was assured that each child would be treated as an individual and get the help they needed. This turned out to be a nightmare as they dropped the kinder/first program and expanded the classroom sizes to 25. I had to pull him out in the middle of the year as he became more depressed and stared hating himself. I did school at home with a boxed curriculum and tried to find other homeschoolers. I attended every home school event I could with a toddler. Unfortunately there weren't many home school gatherings despite my constant networking. The other families explained to me that as families grew larger, lessons, co-ops, and other things go in the way of meeting. It wasn't as easy to get together as it used to be. My son was upset that he did not have any friends during the week, though I invited his friends over on weekends. I put him back in school this year so that he could be around people his own age.
School has not worked well. My son was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome and is considered too high functioning to be in a special education class, but is falling behind in the mainstream. He feels stupid and starts to cry when he sees the unfinished work sheets his teacher sends home. He is being bullied on the playground, and ostracized in the classroom. I've asked him if he wanted to home school, but he says he wants to home school and go to school. He says he did not have any friends last year and it is boring to be home. He will make up any excuse to stay home from school, and I let him do it.
Does anyone else have issues with their children being lonely or missing other kids? Will it go away in time? Is an eight year old capable of making this type of decision.
Thank you for your time and input!
Mary
Sandra Dodd
-=-I've asked him if he wanted to home school, but he says he wants to
home school and go to school. He says he did not have any friends last
year and it is boring to be home. He will make up any excuse to stay
home from school, and I let him do it. -=-
Keep home from being so boring.
-=-Is an eight year old capable of making this type of decision.-=-
Is a grown mother?
Between the two of you, or among the group that makes up your family,
make a decision with the willingness to change course if something
else looks better later.
http://sandradodd.com/nest
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
home school and go to school. He says he did not have any friends last
year and it is boring to be home. He will make up any excuse to stay
home from school, and I let him do it. -=-
Keep home from being so boring.
-=-Is an eight year old capable of making this type of decision.-=-
Is a grown mother?
Between the two of you, or among the group that makes up your family,
make a decision with the willingness to change course if something
else looks better later.
http://sandradodd.com/nest
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Renee M
Now that your son is 8, are you able to drop him off at a friend's house to play for an hour or so? Or do the Asperger issues require your presence? For some families with multiple children doing various activities, having a visitor is a lot less time sink than having to drive somewhere to attend a get-together. Same with maybe dropping a kid off at your house to play while they take another child to one of his/her activities.
One thing we've found is that it's easier to get together with one other family or maybe two than it is to arrange group get-togethers. Finding a time that works for multiple families is hard.
Another way: if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Can you enroll your son in an activity or class for homeschoolers that meets during the week? Maybe there is a Boy Scout or Campfire Kids group made up of home/unschoolers that you could join or start? A "Lego builders" group? A sport? Something that meets every other week tends to get more participants, and you can alternate weeks. (note that running and swimming are sports that often appeal to kids who don't otherwise do well at team sports, so don't forget to consider a kids track or swim team)
And yes, our daughter in particular is quite social and I think if we didn't make ample opportunity for her to play with other kids during the week that she'd be less happy. Little brother is a fine playmate for awhile, but not for everything, all the time. And he's definitely starting to outgrow his willingness to dress up as a princess. :)
-Renee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
One thing we've found is that it's easier to get together with one other family or maybe two than it is to arrange group get-togethers. Finding a time that works for multiple families is hard.
Another way: if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Can you enroll your son in an activity or class for homeschoolers that meets during the week? Maybe there is a Boy Scout or Campfire Kids group made up of home/unschoolers that you could join or start? A "Lego builders" group? A sport? Something that meets every other week tends to get more participants, and you can alternate weeks. (note that running and swimming are sports that often appeal to kids who don't otherwise do well at team sports, so don't forget to consider a kids track or swim team)
And yes, our daughter in particular is quite social and I think if we didn't make ample opportunity for her to play with other kids during the week that she'd be less happy. Little brother is a fine playmate for awhile, but not for everything, all the time. And he's definitely starting to outgrow his willingness to dress up as a princess. :)
-Renee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
>>>He says he did not have any friends last year and it is boring to behome. He will make up any excuse to stay home from school, and I let him
do it.
>missing other kids? Will it go away in time? Is an eight year old
> Does anyone else have issues with their children being lonely or
capable of making this type of decision.>>>
>Can he maintain the friendships that he's made in school this year? I
know it's hard to do, but it can be done.
An 8 yr old is perfectly capable of making this kind of decision. What
else is your son into? Are there clubs or other organizations he can be
involved in? Girl Scouts worked for us for a number of years, we were a
part of a homeschool troop. It provided social activities as well as
adventure activities.
Being lonely will not go away if your child is a very social kid.
Chamille has dealt with loneliness over the years as various friends
have come and gone and been inaccessible. The internet has provided a
great social outlet for her. Now, at the age of 15, she has friends,
but she's very selective about who she chooses to spend her time with.
She admittedly states that she'd rather be lonely, or hang with her
family, than be around people she doesn't care for, just for the sake of
someone to hang out with.
It won't get "better", but it does get easier. A proactive parent
helping in the social outlet goes a long way, even if nothing pans out
for a long time. There may be disappointment and frustration, but all
those small proactive things that a parent can do, really does help.
Sandra Dodd
-=-And he's definitely starting to outgrow his willingness to dress up
as a princess. :)-=-
We had a neighbor who was seven, Kirby was six, and the neighborhood
was full of kids that age and younger who played together. His name
was AJ. He was NOT outgrowing his eagerness to dress up as the
princess. His mother was opposed to it. I sheltered him over at our
house and let him play pink.
One day our whole family was driving somewhere and we passed by where
he was playing with other neighbors. One of our kids said that AJ was
LaGina's boyfriend. Without thinking, I said "I didn't think AJ
liked girls." (I mean, seriously, they were very young and this was
over their heads totally.) Kirby said "Of course he does, mom. Why
else would he want to be Kimberley when we play Power Rangers?"
Keith and I could see each others' faces, but the kids couldn't, and
we were having a hard time not cracking up.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
as a princess. :)-=-
We had a neighbor who was seven, Kirby was six, and the neighborhood
was full of kids that age and younger who played together. His name
was AJ. He was NOT outgrowing his eagerness to dress up as the
princess. His mother was opposed to it. I sheltered him over at our
house and let him play pink.
One day our whole family was driving somewhere and we passed by where
he was playing with other neighbors. One of our kids said that AJ was
LaGina's boyfriend. Without thinking, I said "I didn't think AJ
liked girls." (I mean, seriously, they were very young and this was
over their heads totally.) Kirby said "Of course he does, mom. Why
else would he want to be Kimberley when we play Power Rangers?"
Keith and I could see each others' faces, but the kids couldn't, and
we were having a hard time not cracking up.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn L. Coburn
<<<< He says he did not have any friends last year and it is boring to be
home. He will make up any excuse to stay home from school, and I let him do
it. >>>
<<< My eight year old son has attended some type of schooling since he was
two years>>>>
Keep him home. Get legal. Forget about curriculum or any kind of academic
stuff which is clearly damaging his sense of self. He is only 8 but he has
some 6 years of school type institutions to recover from, including your
boxed curriculum days.
<<<<I attended every home school event I could with a toddler.
Unfortunately there weren't many home school gatherings despite my constant
networking. The other families explained to me that as families grew
larger, lessons, co-ops, and other things go in the way of meeting. >>>>
My experience has been the opposite. The older my daughter gets the more
events, group outings and special classes or clubs are available to her. She
doesn't want most of them, just play dates at homes. You will find that
unschoolers do not allow lessons or co-ops to get in the way of
friendships - especially for kids as young as 8. Is the toddler your next
child? Just trying to keep the chronology clear.
If you want a park day, you may have to be the one to start it. It's hard
work and requires a relentlessness that I have come to admire on the part of
the moms who start them. But once they are rolling, they take on their own
life.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
home. He will make up any excuse to stay home from school, and I let him do
it. >>>
<<< My eight year old son has attended some type of schooling since he was
two years>>>>
Keep him home. Get legal. Forget about curriculum or any kind of academic
stuff which is clearly damaging his sense of self. He is only 8 but he has
some 6 years of school type institutions to recover from, including your
boxed curriculum days.
<<<<I attended every home school event I could with a toddler.
Unfortunately there weren't many home school gatherings despite my constant
networking. The other families explained to me that as families grew
larger, lessons, co-ops, and other things go in the way of meeting. >>>>
My experience has been the opposite. The older my daughter gets the more
events, group outings and special classes or clubs are available to her. She
doesn't want most of them, just play dates at homes. You will find that
unschoolers do not allow lessons or co-ops to get in the way of
friendships - especially for kids as young as 8. Is the toddler your next
child? Just trying to keep the chronology clear.
If you want a park day, you may have to be the one to start it. It's hard
work and requires a relentlessness that I have come to admire on the part of
the moms who start them. But once they are rolling, they take on their own
life.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Hatfield" <mhmarah@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 10:49 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Making a decision to home school again
> Presently, I am trying to make the decision of whether to keep my son in
> school or home school again. , from mother's day out programs, preschool
> and now first grade. I have a complicated relationship with my son as he
> was very sick when he was an infant and into his toddler years. I
> brought home a baby that would scream constantly and curl up in pain. He
> never wanted to be held, he just wanted to sit in his bouncy chair and
> rock. I took him to ER after ER, then doctor after doctor. I was told I
> was a hysterical first time parent and was sent home. I would have been
> glad to have been just hysterical, but it was later discovered that my son
> was very sick and the complications from that time are still present. He
> was not able to hear or speak until he was almost five years old. He
> taught himself how to lip read, and I was the only one who could
> understand him when he spoke. Because of this, my mom radar is still very
> tuned in and I rely a great deal on nonverbal cues and "reading him."
> Then I question myself wondering if I am really reading him correctly.
> His verbal skills are improving, but he still has difficulty expressing
> himself.
>
> I was able to keep him in schools with small classrooms until he was to
> enter first grade. I enrolled him in a charter school with small
> classroom size and a kindergarten/first grade curriculum. I was assured
> that each child would be treated as an individual and get the help they
> needed. This turned out to be a nightmare as they dropped the
> kinder/first program and expanded the classroom sizes to 25. I had to
> pull him out in the middle of the year as he became more depressed and
> stared hating himself. I did school at home with a boxed curriculum and
> tried to find other homeschoolers. It wasn't as easy to get together as
> it used to be. My son was upset that he did not have any friends during
> the week, though I invited his friends over on weekends. I put him back in
> school this year so that he could be around people his own age.
>
> School has not worked well. My son was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome
> and is considered too high functioning to be in a special education class,
> but is falling behind in the mainstream. He feels stupid and starts to
> cry when he sees the unfinished work sheets his teacher sends home. He
> is being bullied on the playground, and ostracized in the classroom. I've
> asked him if he wanted to home school, but he says he wants to home school
> and go to school. >
> Does anyone else have issues with their children being lonely or missing
> other kids? Will it go away in time? Is an eight year old capable of
> making this type of decision.
>
> Thank you for your time and input!
> Mary
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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06:21:00
Mary Hatfield
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
I was in total shock that I had made the decision to home school. The boxed curriculum was one of the dumber things I did, but I was in a panic! I had not even heard about deschooling! I started reading about home schooling when Thomas was three and thought it was a wonderful way to raise our first child. Unfortunately I listened to the experts even until now, and put him in school for his own good. Kennedy Krieger even came out and said that I was doing a great disservice to him by keeping him out of school. I listened to their advice and felt terrible about the fact that I could not give him a better social life and didn't fight the system more for "what he deserved." I guess this as well as my own personal guilt about his medical history is clouding my ability to make this decision.
Thank you to the group for reading these posts, and the helpful responses. I am grateful that a group like this exists.
Mary
> Keep home from being so boring.Sandra, being boring has something that I have struggled with for 37 years ;)! I know that this group as well as other exploring the unschooling lifestyle have allowed me to see how wound up I am! I don't blame him in saying that things were boring. I need to start pushing my own boundaries and comfort zones. My sister said that until my daughter was born, my house was a tomb. (She of course is like a small, but fun storm wherever she goes!) We had to keep it quiet as Thomas could not stand loud noises or changes in his routine at the time.
I was in total shock that I had made the decision to home school. The boxed curriculum was one of the dumber things I did, but I was in a panic! I had not even heard about deschooling! I started reading about home schooling when Thomas was three and thought it was a wonderful way to raise our first child. Unfortunately I listened to the experts even until now, and put him in school for his own good. Kennedy Krieger even came out and said that I was doing a great disservice to him by keeping him out of school. I listened to their advice and felt terrible about the fact that I could not give him a better social life and didn't fight the system more for "what he deserved." I guess this as well as my own personal guilt about his medical history is clouding my ability to make this decision.
Thank you to the group for reading these posts, and the helpful responses. I am grateful that a group like this exists.
Mary
Sandra Dodd
-=- I need to start pushing my own boundaries and comfort zones.-=-
"Pushing boundaries" sounds like hard work, without a guarantee of
success.
If you decide what you want for your family THAT will become your new
comfort zone.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"Pushing boundaries" sounds like hard work, without a guarantee of
success.
If you decide what you want for your family THAT will become your new
comfort zone.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 5/20/2009 5:04 AM, Mary Hatfield wrote:
like you need to struggle, just stop and look at your son and think,
"Right now what can I do to make his life a little more interesting?"
Don't think of big huge things, now. The unschooling lifestyle can
eventually lead into some pretty amazing big and wonderful things, but
ALL of us started with attention to the little moments of life. Make the
next five minutes more fun for your son in some way.
If you want to, you can tell us a little more about what does interest
him - what does he like to do, what has he found to be fun in the past?
We can brainstorm with you a lot of little small things you can do to
enrich his life.
Mostly, though, I bet it is you who needs to relax and stop seeing life
as a struggle and take the time to smell the roses. Are you anxious and
depressed? You sound like someone who has spent years living with
depression, thinking it is just your personality. Have you gotten
professional help with that? You might try taking St John's Wort a
couple of times a day, for a while. It has been shown to be a bit
effective with mild to moderate depression. I've used it a couple of
times when I went through a period when life felt like a struggle to me
- it isn't going to make you all of a sudden feel perky, but combined
with focusing on the blessings in my life, the great moments, the love
of my family and friends, etc., I do think it helped quite a bit.
Another thing that helped me at those times was to make a decision that
I wasn't going to think about the "big picture" for the next 6 months or
so -- but just concentrate on my immediate surroundings, my family's
daily (moment-to-moment) lives. I was sort of fragile and very tense -
seemed I could "break" easily - so I nurtured myself by protecting
myself from being overwhelmed by worrying about or even thinking about
things I really couldn't control (events in other parts of the world,
the future, etc.).
The most important thing that you might get from my own experience - I
was very very clear and determined in my own mind that I was not going
to let MY depression make my children's lives less good - and I think it
was that which really helped me the most. I kept on, hour-by-hour,
day-after-day, looking for ways to enhance my children's lives. Over
time, I realized that my life was good and enriched and happy, too.
Right now - I LOVE my life. My kids are young adults and they love me
and enjoy being with me. Last night I was going to drive about an hour
and a half to go pick up Roxana, and as I was leaving the house, Rosie
and her boyfriend, Daniel, wanted to ride along - for no reason, just to
hang out. So they did and it was nice and after we got Roxana I took
them to a sort of odd little restaurant to get some food to take home
with us (Cha for Tea -- everything is made with green tea) at 11:30 pm.
So - I'm still in the mindset of thinking of ways to enhance their lives
- I purposely went to that restaurant because it is unusual and
interesting (and good). I even thought that the clientele were
interesting - it is across the street from Cal State University Long
Beach and it is finals time and it has free wi-fi - so it was packed
with students on their laptops all studying and talking and
eating/drinking. Again - a little interesting. We could have gone to the
same old places we often go or somewhere safer and more mundane like
Denny's - but it occurred to me to swing by this place because I thought
it would be something a little different.
-pam
> Sandra, being boring has something that I have struggled with for 37 years;)!Don't struggle against it, either. Stop struggling. Instead of feeling
like you need to struggle, just stop and look at your son and think,
"Right now what can I do to make his life a little more interesting?"
Don't think of big huge things, now. The unschooling lifestyle can
eventually lead into some pretty amazing big and wonderful things, but
ALL of us started with attention to the little moments of life. Make the
next five minutes more fun for your son in some way.
If you want to, you can tell us a little more about what does interest
him - what does he like to do, what has he found to be fun in the past?
We can brainstorm with you a lot of little small things you can do to
enrich his life.
Mostly, though, I bet it is you who needs to relax and stop seeing life
as a struggle and take the time to smell the roses. Are you anxious and
depressed? You sound like someone who has spent years living with
depression, thinking it is just your personality. Have you gotten
professional help with that? You might try taking St John's Wort a
couple of times a day, for a while. It has been shown to be a bit
effective with mild to moderate depression. I've used it a couple of
times when I went through a period when life felt like a struggle to me
- it isn't going to make you all of a sudden feel perky, but combined
with focusing on the blessings in my life, the great moments, the love
of my family and friends, etc., I do think it helped quite a bit.
Another thing that helped me at those times was to make a decision that
I wasn't going to think about the "big picture" for the next 6 months or
so -- but just concentrate on my immediate surroundings, my family's
daily (moment-to-moment) lives. I was sort of fragile and very tense -
seemed I could "break" easily - so I nurtured myself by protecting
myself from being overwhelmed by worrying about or even thinking about
things I really couldn't control (events in other parts of the world,
the future, etc.).
The most important thing that you might get from my own experience - I
was very very clear and determined in my own mind that I was not going
to let MY depression make my children's lives less good - and I think it
was that which really helped me the most. I kept on, hour-by-hour,
day-after-day, looking for ways to enhance my children's lives. Over
time, I realized that my life was good and enriched and happy, too.
Right now - I LOVE my life. My kids are young adults and they love me
and enjoy being with me. Last night I was going to drive about an hour
and a half to go pick up Roxana, and as I was leaving the house, Rosie
and her boyfriend, Daniel, wanted to ride along - for no reason, just to
hang out. So they did and it was nice and after we got Roxana I took
them to a sort of odd little restaurant to get some food to take home
with us (Cha for Tea -- everything is made with green tea) at 11:30 pm.
So - I'm still in the mindset of thinking of ways to enhance their lives
- I purposely went to that restaurant because it is unusual and
interesting (and good). I even thought that the clientele were
interesting - it is across the street from Cal State University Long
Beach and it is finals time and it has free wi-fi - so it was packed
with students on their laptops all studying and talking and
eating/drinking. Again - a little interesting. We could have gone to the
same old places we often go or somewhere safer and more mundane like
Denny's - but it occurred to me to swing by this place because I thought
it would be something a little different.
-pam
[email protected]
>>>> comfort zones <<<<Here's what we can know logically: Everyone learns automatically
without thinking about whether they're learning or not. Do we think
about it every time we take a breath or are we just breathing without
noticing it? If breathing and learning only happened when we think
about them, that would probably make them impossible.
Comfort comes from confidence, which takes experience, which can't be
arrived at purely from thinking about it because it's like breathing
and it *is* learning. The more we notice as we experience the sights,
sounds, and sensations of our children, the more we'll have confidence
that they are enjoying themselves and learning without us or them
thinking about it. Eventually we'll figure out that learning doesn't
happen only when we're noticing it but all the time.
~Katherine
Pam Sorooshian
On 5/20/2009 8:47 AM, katherand@... wrote:
conferences about breathing.
-pam
> If breathing and learning only happened when we thinkJohn Holt said that having conferences on education was like having
> about them, that would probably make them impossible.
>
conferences about breathing.
-pam
[email protected]
>>>> John Holt said that having conferences on education was like havingconferences about breathing. <<<<
LOL. That's funny. Good to know.
~Katherine
Sandra Dodd
-=-Here's what we can know logically: Everyone learns automatically
without thinking about whether they're learning or not. Do we think
about it every time we take a breath or are we just breathing without
noticing it? -=-
It is possible to learn very little, or to spend one's days and years
reciting negative messages which paint other people and activities as
stupid, as dumb, and that blame other people and situations and lack
of education for one's still, sad, unhappy life.
People in that situation are neither learning nor making breathing
very useful. There are millions of people in that situation.
At the conference in San Diego I'm going to do a session on breathing,
because after having talked about it to unschoolers for YEARS, like
sixteen or seventeen years, some people are totally ignoring it and
some are not understanding it even if they try to.
I'm going to help people see that they can, with thoughts and
breathing certain ways, get all riled up and pissed off, and then by
thinking and breathing a different way, get calm again.
Don't be disparaging breathing on this list.
http://sandradodd.com/breathing
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
without thinking about whether they're learning or not. Do we think
about it every time we take a breath or are we just breathing without
noticing it? -=-
It is possible to learn very little, or to spend one's days and years
reciting negative messages which paint other people and activities as
stupid, as dumb, and that blame other people and situations and lack
of education for one's still, sad, unhappy life.
People in that situation are neither learning nor making breathing
very useful. There are millions of people in that situation.
At the conference in San Diego I'm going to do a session on breathing,
because after having talked about it to unschoolers for YEARS, like
sixteen or seventeen years, some people are totally ignoring it and
some are not understanding it even if they try to.
I'm going to help people see that they can, with thoughts and
breathing certain ways, get all riled up and pissed off, and then by
thinking and breathing a different way, get calm again.
Don't be disparaging breathing on this list.
http://sandradodd.com/breathing
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>>>> Don't be disparaging breathing on this list.http://sandradodd.com/breathing <<<<
Ah. I see how it can seem very much like I was disparaging breathing
or learning and any number of things it's possible to do without
thinking.
The distinction I was trying (failing) to make is that it's GOOD to
notice how often, in what ways and from what we're learning, breathing,
listening and so on. AND to then take further note of the fact that
learning happens automatically, naturally if we let it, for our
children. Yes facilitation and strewing and encouragement are vital.
But parents could certainly notice that children don't need to know
what we could stand to know about the process of learning.
~Katherine
[email protected]
In a message dated 20/05/2009 18:03:21 GMT Standard Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:
On 5/20/2009 8:47 AM, _katherand@..._ (mailto:katherand@...)
wrote:
conferences about breathing.
-pam
Of course, any singer will say that stress and pressures in society can
make your breathing laboured, tense and inefficient. I guess (am
increasingly realizing) the same goes for what stress and pressures in society can do
to learning!
Jude
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamsoroosh@... writes:
On 5/20/2009 8:47 AM, _katherand@..._ (mailto:katherand@...)
wrote:
> If breathing and learning only happened when we thinkJohn Holt said that having conferences on education was like having
> about them, that would probably make them impossible.
>
conferences about breathing.
-pam
Of course, any singer will say that stress and pressures in society can
make your breathing laboured, tense and inefficient. I guess (am
increasingly realizing) the same goes for what stress and pressures in society can do
to learning!
Jude
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-John Holt said that having conferences on education was like having
conferences about breathing.
-pam-=-
I wonder if he would feel the same way about unschooling conferences.
I wonder if he would object to meditation or yoga classes. <g>
He spoke at the Santa Fe Free School, and I think at some conferences
himself.
And "conferences on education" aren't the same as "conferences about
learning."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
conferences about breathing.
-pam-=-
I wonder if he would feel the same way about unschooling conferences.
I wonder if he would object to meditation or yoga classes. <g>
He spoke at the Santa Fe Free School, and I think at some conferences
himself.
And "conferences on education" aren't the same as "conferences about
learning."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 5/20/2009 12:07 PM, katherand@... wrote:
When I read the John Holt quote about breathing, I laughed and thought
he made a good point, but I also immediately thought about kids who DO
have breathing problems - asthma is such a huge and growing medical
problem these days.
I also immediately thought about how sometimes we can learn on purpose
and sometimes we can breathe on purpose, too.
-pam
> Ah. I see how it can seem very much like I was disparaging breathingWell - and we always have to be careful about taking analogies too far.
> or learning and any number of things it's possible to do without
> thinking.
>
> The distinction I was trying (failing) to make is that it's GOOD to
> notice how often, in what ways and from what we're learning, breathing,
> listening and so on. AND to then take further note of the fact that
> learning happens automatically, naturally if we let it, for our
> children.
When I read the John Holt quote about breathing, I laughed and thought
he made a good point, but I also immediately thought about kids who DO
have breathing problems - asthma is such a huge and growing medical
problem these days.
I also immediately thought about how sometimes we can learn on purpose
and sometimes we can breathe on purpose, too.
-pam
Pam Sorooshian
On 5/20/2009 2:22 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
more. It has to do with what teacher conferences are like - what kind of
stuff they talk about. I'll see if I can find the exact quote.
-pam
> And "conferences on education" aren't the same as "conferences aboutI didn't quote him - but just gave the gist of what he said. There's
> learning."
>
more. It has to do with what teacher conferences are like - what kind of
stuff they talk about. I'll see if I can find the exact quote.
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=- It has to do with what teacher conferences are like - what kind of
stuff they talk about. -=-
I've been to a teachers' convention. I usually didn't bother, but
they were mostly sales rooms and freebies from textbook companies and
such.
Free pencils and rulers and folders.
Boring presentations.
Not about learning, but about how to make being a teacher more
"respected."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
stuff they talk about. -=-
I've been to a teachers' convention. I usually didn't bother, but
they were mostly sales rooms and freebies from textbook companies and
such.
Free pencils and rulers and folders.
Boring presentations.
Not about learning, but about how to make being a teacher more
"respected."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Hatfield
Pam I cannot believe that you had such a clear perspective from a few lines in an email! You are absolutely right. I am still looking at life as a struggle. I have had to struggle to stay alive and sane since I was very little, and I still do it when it is no longer necessary to today. It has been a struggle to raise my little boy though. When he was first handed to me, I knew that something was wrong with his health wise. It was a struggle to get him diagnosed correctly, it was a struggle to keep him alive through that, and it was a struggle to get his autism diagnosed correctly. The school system was the greatest struggle of all. I never knew that I could admire the sheer will and bravery of a small child until I had him. He has been so strong and still has that child like wonder for life that we are all born with. I just don't want school to take away that spirit, and it seems to be between the bullying and him telling me that he feels stupid because no one is taking the time to explain a worksheet to him.
As far as the boring part, the husband and I are definite introverts. I am very quiet until I get to know someone. We read constantly. When I am interested in a topic, I will use as many resources possible to find more information. That is something I want to give my children. I also want them to think for themselves, and approach any problem with as much information as possible and the ability to think about it in a new and different way.
I would have to give myself the label of anxiety over depression. Growing up, I was constantly trying to figure out what was going to happen next, or who was going to do what next.
Thomas' strongest interests are in science especially studying the solar system and experiments. Experiments are his passion. He loves to make up his own. He asks many questions from why do cats do that, to how did tornadoes form. He loves to be read to, and is starting to develop and very fragile confidence in reading out loud to me. I don't correct him, unless he asks me to. I don't want to ruin that confidence. He would spend the day building with his Lego's and has made some very complicated designs following visual directions. He loves to make up his own board games.
The science part is easy. He really does not enjoy writing. Any suggestions on that?
Thank you!
Mary
As far as the boring part, the husband and I are definite introverts. I am very quiet until I get to know someone. We read constantly. When I am interested in a topic, I will use as many resources possible to find more information. That is something I want to give my children. I also want them to think for themselves, and approach any problem with as much information as possible and the ability to think about it in a new and different way.
I would have to give myself the label of anxiety over depression. Growing up, I was constantly trying to figure out what was going to happen next, or who was going to do what next.
Thomas' strongest interests are in science especially studying the solar system and experiments. Experiments are his passion. He loves to make up his own. He asks many questions from why do cats do that, to how did tornadoes form. He loves to be read to, and is starting to develop and very fragile confidence in reading out loud to me. I don't correct him, unless he asks me to. I don't want to ruin that confidence. He would spend the day building with his Lego's and has made some very complicated designs following visual directions. He loves to make up his own board games.
The science part is easy. He really does not enjoy writing. Any suggestions on that?
Thank you!
Mary
Sandra Dodd
-=-It was a struggle to get him diagnosed correctly, it was a struggle
to keep him alive through that, and it was a struggle to get his
autism diagnosed correctly. The school system was the greatest
struggle of all. -=-
I'm sorry you've had such struggles. We can help you find other ways
to be, but one thing you'll need to do is set those struggles aside
and choose to be different. If you review the struggles in your
writing, you're reliving them, and filling the list with struggle. If
you review them in your mind but just refrain from writing them,
you're still filled with the vision and memory and thought of struggle.
You're still struggling with things that are years in the past. This
is not the mother your child needs.
-=- I am very quiet until I get to know someone. -=-
So you don't write the way you speak?
-=-We read constantly.-=-
It's pretty boring to be in the room with someone who's reading and
will not stop no matter what.
If you lived alone, or just with another "constant" reader, it
wouldn't be rude, but when you're living with someone who can't read,
or doesn't want to read, they must feel ignored.
It would be easire to get to know people if you weren't reading
constantly.
-=-When I am interested in a topic, I will use as many resources
possible to find more information.-=-
"As many resources [as] possible" might be too much reading and not
enough doing.
How many resources did you read before you learned to ride a bike?
How many resources did you read before you learned to make a sandwich?
-=- That is something I want to give my children.-=-
Maybe they won't want what you're doing. Maybe they will want
something wonderful you've never thought of before. Maybe there are
better ways to get information than reading constantly. Maybe they'll
want just a little information, or to see someone else ride a bike or
make a sandwich and then they'll want to try it themselves.
-=- I also want them to think for themselves, and approach any problem
with as much information as possible and the ability to think about it
in a new and different way. -=-
You can't give them the ability to think. You can only screw it up.
You can help them practice thinking in real-life ways, though, but
talking will be more helpful than reading lists.
-=-The science part is easy. He really does not enjoy writing. Any
suggestions on that?-=-
Don't look at life as "the science part" and "the writing part."
That's my best suggestion.
Not to encourage the constant reading thing <bwg>, but these will help:
http://sandradodd.com/substance
That one's old now. It was written a dozen years or so ago, when we
lived at our other, smaller house. Here's part of it, though:
"We have a compost pile, and it's kind of amazing how it seems at
first that the food and leaves and sticks and banana peels and dog
poop will never do anything but sit there looking like garbage, but
when I stop watching it, it turns to solid black, rich dirt! I can't
find any parts of the elements of which it's made. It's kind of like
that with my kids. It took me a few years to quit watching them and
trust that it would compost.
"It did."
http://sandradodd.com/connections
It will help to see the art, history, math, folklore and geography of
science.
http://sandradodd.com/writing
Don't press writing, or reading, or anything else. Make a rich life
and they'll come.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to keep him alive through that, and it was a struggle to get his
autism diagnosed correctly. The school system was the greatest
struggle of all. -=-
I'm sorry you've had such struggles. We can help you find other ways
to be, but one thing you'll need to do is set those struggles aside
and choose to be different. If you review the struggles in your
writing, you're reliving them, and filling the list with struggle. If
you review them in your mind but just refrain from writing them,
you're still filled with the vision and memory and thought of struggle.
You're still struggling with things that are years in the past. This
is not the mother your child needs.
-=- I am very quiet until I get to know someone. -=-
So you don't write the way you speak?
-=-We read constantly.-=-
It's pretty boring to be in the room with someone who's reading and
will not stop no matter what.
If you lived alone, or just with another "constant" reader, it
wouldn't be rude, but when you're living with someone who can't read,
or doesn't want to read, they must feel ignored.
It would be easire to get to know people if you weren't reading
constantly.
-=-When I am interested in a topic, I will use as many resources
possible to find more information.-=-
"As many resources [as] possible" might be too much reading and not
enough doing.
How many resources did you read before you learned to ride a bike?
How many resources did you read before you learned to make a sandwich?
-=- That is something I want to give my children.-=-
Maybe they won't want what you're doing. Maybe they will want
something wonderful you've never thought of before. Maybe there are
better ways to get information than reading constantly. Maybe they'll
want just a little information, or to see someone else ride a bike or
make a sandwich and then they'll want to try it themselves.
-=- I also want them to think for themselves, and approach any problem
with as much information as possible and the ability to think about it
in a new and different way. -=-
You can't give them the ability to think. You can only screw it up.
You can help them practice thinking in real-life ways, though, but
talking will be more helpful than reading lists.
-=-The science part is easy. He really does not enjoy writing. Any
suggestions on that?-=-
Don't look at life as "the science part" and "the writing part."
That's my best suggestion.
Not to encourage the constant reading thing <bwg>, but these will help:
http://sandradodd.com/substance
That one's old now. It was written a dozen years or so ago, when we
lived at our other, smaller house. Here's part of it, though:
"We have a compost pile, and it's kind of amazing how it seems at
first that the food and leaves and sticks and banana peels and dog
poop will never do anything but sit there looking like garbage, but
when I stop watching it, it turns to solid black, rich dirt! I can't
find any parts of the elements of which it's made. It's kind of like
that with my kids. It took me a few years to quit watching them and
trust that it would compost.
"It did."
http://sandradodd.com/connections
It will help to see the art, history, math, folklore and geography of
science.
http://sandradodd.com/writing
Don't press writing, or reading, or anything else. Make a rich life
and they'll come.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
>>> When I am interested in a topic, I will use as many resources possible to find more information. That is something I want to give my children. I also want them to think for themselves, and approach any problem with as much information as possible and the ability to think about it in a new and different way.>>>One of the most wonderful and unexpected thing about unschooling and raising my kids this way, is how this aspect happened. It didn't happen at all the way that I thought it would! I was much like you in how I thought about this, I would've said much the same thing when my oldest daughter was little.
What's happened in reality, is much different! My kids have found ways to find the information they need, largely because I've been finding it and showing them. I also find things they never thought they'd like, or existed, simply because I think they might like it. They are always busy doing stuff and often don't have to time or where with all to go seek out the opportunities, so I do that.
All that to say, I'm the one who is always having to think in new and different ways, not my kids. They think like they've always thought, and continue to grow into their own thinking, which is really open and honest and full of life. They really don't see "problems". I'm the one who still gets stuck like that. They see something that needs to happen and they find ways to navigate it. It's not problematic, it's working within the parameters they have and creatively expanding them and changing them in ways that I never would've thought to do!
>Why does an 8 yr old need to write? What purpose does that serve him? Really think about that.
> The science part is easy. He really does not enjoy writing. Any suggestions on that?
>
Chamille still doesn't do much handwriting at the age of 15. She's a super fast typist and makes very very little errors in spelling and grammar, stuff she figured out by typing and reading, mostly online. Margaux likes writing stuff and her handwriting is steadily improving simply by doing it for her own purposes. She's 7. She doesn't write pages and pages of stuff, she makes pretend menus and dog show awards and name tags and odd things on our chalk board.
It's about playing around. I watch the neighbor girl in the mornings and take her to school. She knows we are going to a homeschooling conference this weekend. She's 8. I said something about Margaux playing all day, and that she will probably come home each night tired from all that playing. The little girl says to me "I thought it was a homeschool conference, isn't she going to learn anything?" I said, "of course playing and learning are one and the same!" and she adamately disagreed with me on that.
For a kid, and I would even go so far as to say this works for adults too, if there is play and fun involved, there WILL be learning. It's the absolute best way to learn. Even schools recognize this and try to make learning fun by making all that boring stuff look more appealing with colors and games and sticker charts. They're just missing the largest element, that all that stuff exists outside of worksheets and textbooks, it IS life and exists in life, pure and simple!
G Sherratt
Thanks for that thought provoking message Jenny!
We have just pulled our kids (7 & 5) out of school and aim to unschool. It
is so hard trying to change mindset and let go control but it is slowly
happening. Your message just helps me to remember it will be O.K!
Gemma
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Jenny C
Sent: 21 May 2009 17:07
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Making a decision to home school again
also want them to think for themselves, and approach any problem with as
much information as possible and the ability to think about it in a new and
different way.>>>
One of the most wonderful and unexpected thing about unschooling and raising
my kids this way, is how this aspect happened. It didn't happen at all the
way that I thought it would! I was much like you in how I thought about
this, I would've said much the same thing when my oldest daughter was
little.
What's happened in reality, is much different! My kids have found ways to
find the information they need, largely because I've been finding it and
showing them. I also find things they never thought they'd like, or existed,
simply because I think they might like it. They are always busy doing stuff
and often don't have to time or where with all to go seek out the
opportunities, so I do that.
All that to say, I'm the one who is always having to think in new and
different ways, not my kids. They think like they've always thought, and
continue to grow into their own thinking, which is really open and honest
and full of life. They really don't see "problems". I'm the one who still
gets stuck like that. They see something that needs to happen and they find
ways to navigate it. It's not problematic, it's working within the
parameters they have and creatively expanding them and changing them in ways
that I never would've thought to do!
think about that.
Chamille still doesn't do much handwriting at the age of 15. She's a super
fast typist and makes very very little errors in spelling and grammar, stuff
she figured out by typing and reading, mostly online. Margaux likes writing
stuff and her handwriting is steadily improving simply by doing it for her
own purposes. She's 7. She doesn't write pages and pages of stuff, she makes
pretend menus and dog show awards and name tags and odd things on our chalk
board.
It's about playing around. I watch the neighbor girl in the mornings and
take her to school. She knows we are going to a homeschooling conference
this weekend. She's 8. I said something about Margaux playing all day, and
that she will probably come home each night tired from all that playing. The
little girl says to me "I thought it was a homeschool conference, isn't she
going to learn anything?" I said, "of course playing and learning are one
and the same!" and she adamately disagreed with me on that.
For a kid, and I would even go so far as to say this works for adults too,
if there is play and fun involved, there WILL be learning. It's the absolute
best way to learn. Even schools recognize this and try to make learning fun
by making all that boring stuff look more appealing with colors and games
and sticker charts. They're just missing the largest element, that all that
stuff exists outside of worksheets and textbooks, it IS life and exists in
life, pure and simple!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We have just pulled our kids (7 & 5) out of school and aim to unschool. It
is so hard trying to change mindset and let go control but it is slowly
happening. Your message just helps me to remember it will be O.K!
Gemma
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Jenny C
Sent: 21 May 2009 17:07
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Making a decision to home school again
>>> When I am interested in a topic, I will use as many resources possibleto find more information. That is something I want to give my children. I
also want them to think for themselves, and approach any problem with as
much information as possible and the ability to think about it in a new and
different way.>>>
One of the most wonderful and unexpected thing about unschooling and raising
my kids this way, is how this aspect happened. It didn't happen at all the
way that I thought it would! I was much like you in how I thought about
this, I would've said much the same thing when my oldest daughter was
little.
What's happened in reality, is much different! My kids have found ways to
find the information they need, largely because I've been finding it and
showing them. I also find things they never thought they'd like, or existed,
simply because I think they might like it. They are always busy doing stuff
and often don't have to time or where with all to go seek out the
opportunities, so I do that.
All that to say, I'm the one who is always having to think in new and
different ways, not my kids. They think like they've always thought, and
continue to grow into their own thinking, which is really open and honest
and full of life. They really don't see "problems". I'm the one who still
gets stuck like that. They see something that needs to happen and they find
ways to navigate it. It's not problematic, it's working within the
parameters they have and creatively expanding them and changing them in ways
that I never would've thought to do!
>suggestions on that?
> The science part is easy. He really does not enjoy writing. Any
>Why does an 8 yr old need to write? What purpose does that serve him? Really
think about that.
Chamille still doesn't do much handwriting at the age of 15. She's a super
fast typist and makes very very little errors in spelling and grammar, stuff
she figured out by typing and reading, mostly online. Margaux likes writing
stuff and her handwriting is steadily improving simply by doing it for her
own purposes. She's 7. She doesn't write pages and pages of stuff, she makes
pretend menus and dog show awards and name tags and odd things on our chalk
board.
It's about playing around. I watch the neighbor girl in the mornings and
take her to school. She knows we are going to a homeschooling conference
this weekend. She's 8. I said something about Margaux playing all day, and
that she will probably come home each night tired from all that playing. The
little girl says to me "I thought it was a homeschool conference, isn't she
going to learn anything?" I said, "of course playing and learning are one
and the same!" and she adamately disagreed with me on that.
For a kid, and I would even go so far as to say this works for adults too,
if there is play and fun involved, there WILL be learning. It's the absolute
best way to learn. Even schools recognize this and try to make learning fun
by making all that boring stuff look more appealing with colors and games
and sticker charts. They're just missing the largest element, that all that
stuff exists outside of worksheets and textbooks, it IS life and exists in
life, pure and simple!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Su Penn
On May 21, 2009, at 12:06 PM, Jenny C wrote:
the afternoon, when he had finished the game, he said to me, "I had a
fun day. That was a lot of work!"
It struck me that for Eric, work and fun are not mutually exclusive
ideas. They often go hand-in-hand.
And, of course, he was learning. I noticed that in order to meet his
goal he had to improve his map-reading skills, and he also had to find
his way emotionally through a couple of episodes of frustration in the
course of the day. This in addition to mastering game play.
Work/fun/play/learning. Who knew they were synonyms?
Su
mom of Eric, 8; Carl, 5; Yehva, almost 2
> The little girl says to me "I thought it was a homeschoolThe other day Eric was really focused on finishing a video game. In
> conference, isn't she going to learn anything?" I said, "of course
> playing and learning are one and the same!" and she adamately
> disagreed with me on that.
the afternoon, when he had finished the game, he said to me, "I had a
fun day. That was a lot of work!"
It struck me that for Eric, work and fun are not mutually exclusive
ideas. They often go hand-in-hand.
And, of course, he was learning. I noticed that in order to meet his
goal he had to improve his map-reading skills, and he also had to find
his way emotionally through a couple of episodes of frustration in the
course of the day. This in addition to mastering game play.
Work/fun/play/learning. Who knew they were synonyms?
Su
mom of Eric, 8; Carl, 5; Yehva, almost 2
Cameron Parham
We have just pulled our kids (7 & 5) out of school and aim to unschool. It
is so hard trying to change mindset and let go control but it is slowly
happening. Your message just helps me to remember it will be O.K!
Gemma
Just another "It will be OK" comment: When we began unschooling 2 yrs ago I had more worries than would fit into the average ponderous textbook. We still love it today. It gets better all the time. Cameron Parham
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
is so hard trying to change mindset and let go control but it is slowly
happening. Your message just helps me to remember it will be O.K!
Gemma
Just another "It will be OK" comment: When we began unschooling 2 yrs ago I had more worries than would fit into the average ponderous textbook. We still love it today. It gets better all the time. Cameron Parham
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Work/fun/play/learning. Who knew they were synonyms?
Su-=-
I've added this to the random quotes generator. Pretty cool!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Su-=-
I've added this to the random quotes generator. Pretty cool!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
guideforthree
The subject of Asperger's and how it plays out in unschooling is near and dear to my heart. My 8yo son was diagnosed with Asperger's when he was enrolled in kindergarten. We withdrew all of our children from school one year later. Two and a half years later, Charles and I both believe that was the best decision we made for our children (now 11, 8, and 4).
I remember the visits to pediatricians and child development professionals. I remember the frustration of being told I was imagining things and my son was developing normally. I also remember the relief of finding a pediatrician that actually took the time to sit down and ask the right questions. I remember what school was like for Trevor. But for me, it is a distant memory that has no bearing on my life now.
I also know about the sensory issues, the meltdowns, the difficulty with transitions, the perseverative interests, etc., and I can honestly say unschooling has done wonders for every aspect of Trevor's Aspergers. The positive changes have been so evident in Trevor that our extended family members and friends don't question our decision to unschool all three of our children.
As for the social issues, you have to make it happen. Trevor has a friend that lives two blocks away. Trevor used to have to wait for his friend to get home from school, but now that they are homeschooling, they can play together at any time of day (or night). However, this friendship would not have blossomed if I hadn't taken the time to walk around my neighborhood and stop to talk to the people outside their homes. My experience has shown me that cultivating friendships like this are an essential part of fullfilling my children's social needs. I invite people to my home, and I show up anywhere I am invited. I do this for my children's sake whether I am comfortable with it or not. A friend once told me "If you want something to happen, you have to make it happen" in regards to social gatherings, and that has pretty much been my unschooling mantra ever since.
=====> The science part is easy. He really does not enjoy writing. Any suggestions on that?
=======
You have a child with Asperger's. If you had said he enjoys writing, I would have fallen on the floor in shock. Asperger's always includes some sort of communication problem and usually includes small motor problems, perfectionistic tendencies, and low tolerance for frustration. When you roll all of that together and throw in a parent who wants a child to do something he is developmentally not capable of doing, you have a recipe for resentment. My best advice is the path I took with Trevor - Just let it go. Forget about writing. Assume he will never write. Then one day when he starts typing cheat codes into his favorite video game or posts a keep out sign on his door, just be pleasantly suprised. In a few years, he'll discover text messaging, and you'll look back on your writing concerns and laugh. Until that day, Legos are awesome for fine motor skills.
Tina
I remember the visits to pediatricians and child development professionals. I remember the frustration of being told I was imagining things and my son was developing normally. I also remember the relief of finding a pediatrician that actually took the time to sit down and ask the right questions. I remember what school was like for Trevor. But for me, it is a distant memory that has no bearing on my life now.
I also know about the sensory issues, the meltdowns, the difficulty with transitions, the perseverative interests, etc., and I can honestly say unschooling has done wonders for every aspect of Trevor's Aspergers. The positive changes have been so evident in Trevor that our extended family members and friends don't question our decision to unschool all three of our children.
As for the social issues, you have to make it happen. Trevor has a friend that lives two blocks away. Trevor used to have to wait for his friend to get home from school, but now that they are homeschooling, they can play together at any time of day (or night). However, this friendship would not have blossomed if I hadn't taken the time to walk around my neighborhood and stop to talk to the people outside their homes. My experience has shown me that cultivating friendships like this are an essential part of fullfilling my children's social needs. I invite people to my home, and I show up anywhere I am invited. I do this for my children's sake whether I am comfortable with it or not. A friend once told me "If you want something to happen, you have to make it happen" in regards to social gatherings, and that has pretty much been my unschooling mantra ever since.
=====> The science part is easy. He really does not enjoy writing. Any suggestions on that?
=======
You have a child with Asperger's. If you had said he enjoys writing, I would have fallen on the floor in shock. Asperger's always includes some sort of communication problem and usually includes small motor problems, perfectionistic tendencies, and low tolerance for frustration. When you roll all of that together and throw in a parent who wants a child to do something he is developmentally not capable of doing, you have a recipe for resentment. My best advice is the path I took with Trevor - Just let it go. Forget about writing. Assume he will never write. Then one day when he starts typing cheat codes into his favorite video game or posts a keep out sign on his door, just be pleasantly suprised. In a few years, he'll discover text messaging, and you'll look back on your writing concerns and laugh. Until that day, Legos are awesome for fine motor skills.
Tina
Kelli Johnston
Hi we also have a 6.5 year old son who was diagnosed with mild aspergers while he was in school. This past year we dropped all services and started our journey with unschooling. I completely let the writing thing go and he now writes notes to people and signs on his doors haha! Also I wanted to add that socially things can be challenging but there is also a lot of flexibility in unschooling to really look at his needs and make decisions based on that. It has cut down a lot of his stress and anxiety. I really feel upset with the movement to treat those on the spectrum as people that need to be trained and many times extremely unkindly. I no longer think much about the label and really only look at his individual needs. He is one extraordinary boy!
All my best--Kelli
Sent from my iPhone
All my best--Kelli
Sent from my iPhone
On May 21, 2009, at 1:15 PM, "guideforthree" <tinaboster@...> wrote:
The subject of Asperger's and how it plays out in unschooling is near and dear to my heart. My 8yo son was diagnosed with Asperger's when he was enrolled in kindergarten. We withdrew all of our children from school one year later. Two and a half years later, Charles and I both believe that was the best decision we made for our children (now 11, 8, and 4).
I remember the visits to pediatricians and child development professionals. I remember the frustration of being told I was imagining things and my son was developing normally. I also remember the relief of finding a pediatrician that actually took the time to sit down and ask the right questions. I remember what school was like for Trevor. But for me, it is a distant memory that has no bearing on my life now.
I also know about the sensory issues, the meltdowns, the difficulty with transitions, the perseverative interests, etc., and I can honestly say unschooling has done wonders for every aspect of Trevor's Aspergers. The positive changes have been so evident in Trevor that our extended family members and friends don't question our decision to unschool all three of our children.
As for the social issues, you have to make it happen. Trevor has a friend that lives two blocks away. Trevor used to have to wait for his friend to get home from school, but now that they are homeschooling, they can play together at any time of day (or night). However, this friendship would not have blossomed if I hadn't taken the time to walk around my neighborhood and stop to talk to the people outside their homes. My experience has shown me that cultivating friendships like this are an essential part of fullfilling my children's social needs. I invite people to my home, and I show up anywhere I am invited. I do this for my children's sake whether I am comfortable with it or not. A friend once told me "If you want something to happen, you have to make it happen" in regards to social gatherings, and that has pretty much been my unschooling mantra ever since.
=====> The science part is easy. He really does not enjoy writing. Any suggestions on that?
=======
You have a child with Asperger's. If you had said he enjoys writing, I would have fallen on the floor in shock. Asperger's always includes some sort of communication problem and usually includes small motor problems, perfectionistic tendencies, and low tolerance for frustration. When you roll all of that together and throw in a parent who wants a child to do something he is developmentally not capable of doing, you have a recipe for resentment. My best advice is the path I took with Trevor - Just let it go. Forget about writing. Assume he will never write. Then one day when he starts typing cheat codes into his favorite video game or posts a keep out sign on his door, just be pleasantly suprised. In a few years, he'll discover text messaging, and you'll look back on your writing concerns and laugh. Until that day, Legos are awesome for fine motor skills.
Tina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
JENNIFER HYATT
I have a son who is PDDNOS - he favors a lot of the Asperger's diagnoses. He attended school from pre-K to 1st grade and struggled each day. He was abused while in school- ranging from being locked in a closet (YEP that is right!) to being stuck in a room all day one on one/ day after day with a para (NOT a teacher) sitting at a desk facing the wall doing worksheets all day everyday (sometimes not even being excused for recess). There were other incidents too (like not being able to eat his lunch), but those are the two that come to mind right now. Both times my son started acting out- crying in the morning, getting in trouble at school, cutting his clothes up, running from teachers at recess when it was time to go in, etc... I would surprise drop by and that is when I would find their mistreatings of my son. I thank God EVERYDAY for making it possible for me to bring my son home. Especially since hearing about a teacher forceably sitting on an ADHD child for 15 or so minutes who was misbehaving and killing him (even after he told her he could not breathe). HORRIBLE!!! My son struggled with academics and psychological problems, the school was oblivious on how to handle him. He was almost 7 when I pulled him out of school- he is almost 10 now and is excelling in all academics. He refused to read in school and reads VERY well now. He hated to write and now I catch him all the time writing. His behavior has improved SOOOO much that he has not needed medication since being out of school (we have been using Natural methods). Unschooling has been a true answer to our prayers. I had to test my son recently for state requirements and he blew the test out of the water- scoring in most instances well above average (like in the 90's out of 100). It killed me when he was in school and was being misunderstood for a bad boy. I received calls EVERYDAY (Literally at least if not more). My son is the sweetest little man you could ever ask for- he is a true delight to have as a son. My son is VERY bright- he is a very logical and can see things a different way than most people (which always makes things better). It is like he can look at objects more in depth than the average person. It is hard to explain but I am SOOOOO proud of him.
Again- I thank God for leading me to homeschooling - now going on 3 years and counting : )
Blessings,
Jennifer Hyatt
Bachelor of Science in Psychology and Education
Mother of four all homeschooled : ) (ages 5, 7, 9, and 11).
Mimzy4@...
www.blessedfamilyofflowers.wordpress.com
"Opinion Without Knowledge is Blind" Socrates
To: [email protected]
From: kaipelesmom@...
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 13:47:08 -0700
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Making a decision to home school again
Hi we also have a 6.5 year old son who was diagnosed with mild aspergers while he was in school. This past year we dropped all services and started our journey with unschooling. I completely let the writing thing go and he now writes notes to people and signs on his doors haha! Also I wanted to add that socially things can be challenging but there is also a lot of flexibility in unschooling to really look at his needs and make decisions based on that. It has cut down a lot of his stress and anxiety. I really feel upset with the movement to treat those on the spectrum as people that need to be trained and many times extremely unkindly. I no longer think much about the label and really only look at his individual needs. He is one extraordinary boy!
All my best--Kelli
Sent from my iPhone
Again- I thank God for leading me to homeschooling - now going on 3 years and counting : )
Blessings,
Jennifer Hyatt
Bachelor of Science in Psychology and Education
Mother of four all homeschooled : ) (ages 5, 7, 9, and 11).
Mimzy4@...
www.blessedfamilyofflowers.wordpress.com
"Opinion Without Knowledge is Blind" Socrates
To: [email protected]
From: kaipelesmom@...
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 13:47:08 -0700
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Making a decision to home school again
Hi we also have a 6.5 year old son who was diagnosed with mild aspergers while he was in school. This past year we dropped all services and started our journey with unschooling. I completely let the writing thing go and he now writes notes to people and signs on his doors haha! Also I wanted to add that socially things can be challenging but there is also a lot of flexibility in unschooling to really look at his needs and make decisions based on that. It has cut down a lot of his stress and anxiety. I really feel upset with the movement to treat those on the spectrum as people that need to be trained and many times extremely unkindly. I no longer think much about the label and really only look at his individual needs. He is one extraordinary boy!
All my best--Kelli
Sent from my iPhone
On May 21, 2009, at 1:15 PM, "guideforthree" <tinaboster@...> wrote:
The subject of Asperger's and how it plays out in unschooling is near and dear to my heart. My 8yo son was diagnosed with Asperger's when he was enrolled in kindergarten. We withdrew all of our children from school one year later. Two and a half years later, Charles and I both believe that was the best decision we made for our children (now 11, 8, and 4).
I remember the visits to pediatricians and child development professionals. I remember the frustration of being told I was imagining things and my son was developing normally. I also remember the relief of finding a pediatrician that actually took the time to sit down and ask the right questions. I remember what school was like for Trevor. But for me, it is a distant memory that has no bearing on my life now.
I also know about the sensory issues, the meltdowns, the difficulty with transitions, the perseverative interests, etc., and I can honestly say unschooling has done wonders for every aspect of Trevor's Aspergers. The positive changes have been so evident in Trevor that our extended family members and friends don't question our decision to unschool all three of our children.
As for the social issues, you have to make it happen. Trevor has a friend that lives two blocks away. Trevor used to have to wait for his friend to get home from school, but now that they are homeschooling, they can play together at any time of day (or night). However, this friendship would not have blossomed if I hadn't taken the time to walk around my neighborhood and stop to talk to the people outside their homes. My experience has shown me that cultivating friendships like this are an essential part of fullfilling my children's social needs. I invite people to my home, and I show up anywhere I am invited. I do this for my children's sake whether I am comfortable with it or not. A friend once told me "If you want something to happen, you have to make it happen" in regards to social gatherings, and that has pretty much been my unschooling mantra ever since.
=====> The science part is easy. He really does not enjoy writing. Any suggestions on that?
=======
You have a child with Asperger's. If you had said he enjoys writing, I would have fallen on the floor in shock. Asperger's always includes some sort of communication problem and usually includes small motor problems, perfectionistic tendencies, and low tolerance for frustration. When you roll all of that together and throw in a parent who wants a child to do something he is developmentally not capable of doing, you have a recipe for resentment. My best advice is the path I took with Trevor - Just let it go. Forget about writing. Assume he will never write. Then one day when he starts typing cheat codes into his favorite video game or posts a keep out sign on his door, just be pleasantly suprised. In a few years, he'll discover text messaging, and you'll look back on your writing concerns and laugh. Until that day, Legos are awesome for fine motor skills.
Tina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
guideforthree
======I no longer think much about the label and really only look at his individual needs. He is one extraordinary boy!
======
I've said it before - once we got throught the deschooling and really started unschooling, it was if the label just sort of faded away. For us, it was about changing the environment and not our child.
These days, a casual observer would be hard pressed to pick out which of my children was labeled three years ago.
Tina
======
I've said it before - once we got throught the deschooling and really started unschooling, it was if the label just sort of faded away. For us, it was about changing the environment and not our child.
These days, a casual observer would be hard pressed to pick out which of my children was labeled three years ago.
Tina