Radical Unschooling Let Down
Christy Putnam
We came across unschooling just before my 4 year old was born. We had
already decided that I would stay home and had been talking about
homeschooling my oldest (then 10 years old). One of my friends mentioned
that she unschooled so we talked about it and I did 'the research' and
decided that unschooling was the path for us. I was relieved that I
wouldn't have to nag him about homework anymore, that there would be no more
trips to the principal's office, and especially the promise of a better
relationship with my son because it would be based on mutual respect and
exploration.
I pulled him out of school after 5th grade. We started with the typical
deschooling while I kept wrapping my head around all that unschooling meant,
especially radical unschooling. We attended the Rethinking Education
conference that September and David Albert and many others were a huge help
with making our transition into the more radical unschooling. We went the
next year as well and he went to the Not Back To School Camp last year.
We will have been unschooling 4 years the end of this month. Most of the
time he is in his room to play video games, computer stuff, read, play
guitar, write various short stories, sleeping most of the day, awake most of
the night. When he is not doing that he is rehearsing for whatever
production he is in (acting, musicals, improv), playing laser tag, or
skateboarding. Most of which one would think I am complaining about or
seeking ways of how to change. No, it's not. He is a brilliant person and
the way he chooses to spend his time doesn't bother me.
What bothers me is that despite us doing everything we can to support him in
what he wants to do, despite us inviting him to help plan and/or participate
in family activities, despite us respecting his choices.there have not been
very many moments of *mutual* respect. There have been countless moments of
my oldest son tormenting his younger brother - "because he's f****ing
annoying." There have been countless times of him yelling at us and even
punching holes in the walls because we are "doing __________ to piss him
off."
He essentially refuses to be a part of the family and carries on with this
air of entitlement that he should be able to do and say what he wants
whenever he wants regardless of what anyone else needs, already has planned,
or money involved. He refuses to take responsibility for his words or
actions. He refuses to do anything with or for the family. All of this
despite the fact that since his birth I have modeled doing things for others
and taking our own responsibility. He will even comment when others don't.
The biggest part of this is that when he is out in the world with others, I
hear about how great of a kid he is. He REALLY IS a great person and I LOVE
hearing about it. But since starting this unschooling journey he has been
treating his family in a bully-like way instead of with mutual respect like
he treats others outside our family. I am really feeling like radical
unschooling has not been good for him/our family at all and I really don't
like that feeling. I really want this to work but we can't be bullied any
longer.we can't live tip-toeing around what he thinks he is entitled to.
The only thing I see to do is pull in the reigns and it is paining me to
feel like I failed him and our family by making the choice to radically
unschool.
I don't know what I want or don't want to hear from you all. I might just
be venting but I just can't take this life anymore. I can't watch him be so
mean to his brother, talk so hateful to me or my dh, essentially make our
lives hell.
I don't expect or even want some fairy tale life, just a life in which we
can all be happy and peaceful more often than not. A life in which his
little brother isn't afraid of him walking in the room, a life in which we
can all breathe easier and not worry about the next shoe dropping. A life
where the respect is mutual, not just one sided.
With Utmost Gratitude,
Christy Putnam
Funschooling Mom to Seth (14) , Aden (4) & Emma (born 8/13/08)
Funloving Wife to Chet (7/4/04)
<http://abundantcuriosity.blogspot.com/> Abundant Curiosity
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FYI-OKC/> Funschooling Young Individuals:
FYI-OKC
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OAHAT/> OKC Metro Teen Group - OAHAT
"What good is it for children to have their own particular parents
if the parents are going to treat those individual children
as generic pegs to be stuck into generic holes?"
~ Sandra Dodd from:
<http://www.weirdunsocializedhomeschoolers.com/2009/03/homeschooling-styles-
unschooling.html> Sandra's Guest Blog Post
AFFIRMATION: I am whole, well and unlimited.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
already decided that I would stay home and had been talking about
homeschooling my oldest (then 10 years old). One of my friends mentioned
that she unschooled so we talked about it and I did 'the research' and
decided that unschooling was the path for us. I was relieved that I
wouldn't have to nag him about homework anymore, that there would be no more
trips to the principal's office, and especially the promise of a better
relationship with my son because it would be based on mutual respect and
exploration.
I pulled him out of school after 5th grade. We started with the typical
deschooling while I kept wrapping my head around all that unschooling meant,
especially radical unschooling. We attended the Rethinking Education
conference that September and David Albert and many others were a huge help
with making our transition into the more radical unschooling. We went the
next year as well and he went to the Not Back To School Camp last year.
We will have been unschooling 4 years the end of this month. Most of the
time he is in his room to play video games, computer stuff, read, play
guitar, write various short stories, sleeping most of the day, awake most of
the night. When he is not doing that he is rehearsing for whatever
production he is in (acting, musicals, improv), playing laser tag, or
skateboarding. Most of which one would think I am complaining about or
seeking ways of how to change. No, it's not. He is a brilliant person and
the way he chooses to spend his time doesn't bother me.
What bothers me is that despite us doing everything we can to support him in
what he wants to do, despite us inviting him to help plan and/or participate
in family activities, despite us respecting his choices.there have not been
very many moments of *mutual* respect. There have been countless moments of
my oldest son tormenting his younger brother - "because he's f****ing
annoying." There have been countless times of him yelling at us and even
punching holes in the walls because we are "doing __________ to piss him
off."
He essentially refuses to be a part of the family and carries on with this
air of entitlement that he should be able to do and say what he wants
whenever he wants regardless of what anyone else needs, already has planned,
or money involved. He refuses to take responsibility for his words or
actions. He refuses to do anything with or for the family. All of this
despite the fact that since his birth I have modeled doing things for others
and taking our own responsibility. He will even comment when others don't.
The biggest part of this is that when he is out in the world with others, I
hear about how great of a kid he is. He REALLY IS a great person and I LOVE
hearing about it. But since starting this unschooling journey he has been
treating his family in a bully-like way instead of with mutual respect like
he treats others outside our family. I am really feeling like radical
unschooling has not been good for him/our family at all and I really don't
like that feeling. I really want this to work but we can't be bullied any
longer.we can't live tip-toeing around what he thinks he is entitled to.
The only thing I see to do is pull in the reigns and it is paining me to
feel like I failed him and our family by making the choice to radically
unschool.
I don't know what I want or don't want to hear from you all. I might just
be venting but I just can't take this life anymore. I can't watch him be so
mean to his brother, talk so hateful to me or my dh, essentially make our
lives hell.
I don't expect or even want some fairy tale life, just a life in which we
can all be happy and peaceful more often than not. A life in which his
little brother isn't afraid of him walking in the room, a life in which we
can all breathe easier and not worry about the next shoe dropping. A life
where the respect is mutual, not just one sided.
With Utmost Gratitude,
Christy Putnam
Funschooling Mom to Seth (14) , Aden (4) & Emma (born 8/13/08)
Funloving Wife to Chet (7/4/04)
<http://abundantcuriosity.blogspot.com/> Abundant Curiosity
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FYI-OKC/> Funschooling Young Individuals:
FYI-OKC
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OAHAT/> OKC Metro Teen Group - OAHAT
"What good is it for children to have their own particular parents
if the parents are going to treat those individual children
as generic pegs to be stuck into generic holes?"
~ Sandra Dodd from:
<http://www.weirdunsocializedhomeschoolers.com/2009/03/homeschooling-styles-
unschooling.html> Sandra's Guest Blog Post
AFFIRMATION: I am whole, well and unlimited.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 5/11/2009 7:49 PM, Christy Putnam wrote:
you were forced to give an explanation, what would you say? I think we
need more to go on.
-pam
> Most of which one would think I am complaining about orDo you have any insight into his behavior? What does he say about it? If
> seeking ways of how to change. No, it's not. He is a brilliant person and
> the way he chooses to spend his time doesn't bother me.
> What bothers me is that despite us doing everything we can to support him in
> what he wants to do, despite us inviting him to help plan and/or participate
> in family activities, despite us respecting his choices.there have not been
> very many moments of*mutual* respect.
you were forced to give an explanation, what would you say? I think we
need more to go on.
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=-. One of my friends mentioned
that she unschooled so we talked about it and I did 'the research' and
decided that unschooling was the path for us.....
I pulled him out of school after 5th grade.-=-
Did he want to come home, or would he have preferred to stay in school?
-=-We will have been unschooling 4 years the end of this month. =-
So the entire life of his little brother (half brother?) his life has
been changed.
-=-Funschooling Mom to Seth (14) , Aden (4) & Emma (born 8/13/08)
Funloving Wife to Chet (7/4/04)-=-
You've been married since 2004? So Seth has a stepdad? That seems
the biggest factor in what I could see from that post.
You said "funschooling," but one principle is that it's only fun if
everybody's having fun. It's only funny if everyone thinks it's funny.
-=-The biggest part of this is that when he is out in the world with
others, I
hear about how great of a kid he is. He REALLY IS a great person and I
LOVE
hearing about it. -=-
This was true of Kirby. He has some resentments firstborns can easily
have, and we moved when he wasn't thrilled about moving, and he didn't
get the room in the new house he had first wanted. But he was always
great elsewhere, and I comforted myself then with the idea that we
were helping him grow up to live elsewhere, not at home.
-=- He refuses to take responsibility for his words or
actions. He refuses to do anything with or for the family. -=-
That first question, above, is a hingepoint. Were his words and
actions his own when he was ten years old? Do you take responsibility
for your words and actions which might have put a wedge between you
and him, or made him feel like an outsider?
-=I really want this to work but we can't be bullied any
longer.we can't live tip-toeing around what he thinks he is entitled to.
The only thing I see to do is pull in the reigns and it is paining me to
feel like I failed him and our family by making the choice to radically
unschool.-=-
Reins. I want to clarify that it's "pull in the reins," as on a
horse's bridle.
Are you still riding him? Did you give him free rein but not let him
frolic in the pasture?
-=-it is paining me to feel like I failed him and our family by making
the choice to radically unschool.-=-
This also sounds like you made the decision and your son didn't.
Tell us more.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that she unschooled so we talked about it and I did 'the research' and
decided that unschooling was the path for us.....
I pulled him out of school after 5th grade.-=-
Did he want to come home, or would he have preferred to stay in school?
-=-We will have been unschooling 4 years the end of this month. =-
So the entire life of his little brother (half brother?) his life has
been changed.
-=-Funschooling Mom to Seth (14) , Aden (4) & Emma (born 8/13/08)
Funloving Wife to Chet (7/4/04)-=-
You've been married since 2004? So Seth has a stepdad? That seems
the biggest factor in what I could see from that post.
You said "funschooling," but one principle is that it's only fun if
everybody's having fun. It's only funny if everyone thinks it's funny.
-=-The biggest part of this is that when he is out in the world with
others, I
hear about how great of a kid he is. He REALLY IS a great person and I
LOVE
hearing about it. -=-
This was true of Kirby. He has some resentments firstborns can easily
have, and we moved when he wasn't thrilled about moving, and he didn't
get the room in the new house he had first wanted. But he was always
great elsewhere, and I comforted myself then with the idea that we
were helping him grow up to live elsewhere, not at home.
-=- He refuses to take responsibility for his words or
actions. He refuses to do anything with or for the family. -=-
That first question, above, is a hingepoint. Were his words and
actions his own when he was ten years old? Do you take responsibility
for your words and actions which might have put a wedge between you
and him, or made him feel like an outsider?
-=I really want this to work but we can't be bullied any
longer.we can't live tip-toeing around what he thinks he is entitled to.
The only thing I see to do is pull in the reigns and it is paining me to
feel like I failed him and our family by making the choice to radically
unschool.-=-
Reins. I want to clarify that it's "pull in the reins," as on a
horse's bridle.
Are you still riding him? Did you give him free rein but not let him
frolic in the pasture?
-=-it is paining me to feel like I failed him and our family by making
the choice to radically unschool.-=-
This also sounds like you made the decision and your son didn't.
Tell us more.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
There have been countless moments of
remarried with younger children? My kids are really far apart in age,
and people often suspect that to be the case even though it isn't, so I
don't want to assume here, just asking.
If that IS the case, he may be feeling displaced in his family. He IS
seperate, and older, and different than the other members of the family.
It is really difficult at times to navigate the teen world and the
little kid world simultaneously. In many ways teens need more from
their parents than little kids, more rides to this or that, more in
depth conversations that are uninterrupted by little ones, etc.
How much time is set aside for one on one with him? It could make all
the difference in the world. Not "family" time, since that is clearly
not what he wants, but "mom" time, with just mom, getting coffee or
going to a concert or movie.
> my oldest son tormenting his younger brother - "because he's f****ingeven
> annoying." There have been countless times of him yelling at us and
> punching holes in the walls because we are "doing __________ to pisshim
> off."this
> He essentially refuses to be a part of the family and carries on with
> air of entitlement that he should be able to do and say what he wantsplanned,
> whenever he wants regardless of what anyone else needs, already has
> or money involved.I'm just guessing here, but does Seth have a different father? Are you
remarried with younger children? My kids are really far apart in age,
and people often suspect that to be the case even though it isn't, so I
don't want to assume here, just asking.
If that IS the case, he may be feeling displaced in his family. He IS
seperate, and older, and different than the other members of the family.
It is really difficult at times to navigate the teen world and the
little kid world simultaneously. In many ways teens need more from
their parents than little kids, more rides to this or that, more in
depth conversations that are uninterrupted by little ones, etc.
How much time is set aside for one on one with him? It could make all
the difference in the world. Not "family" time, since that is clearly
not what he wants, but "mom" time, with just mom, getting coffee or
going to a concert or movie.
Robin Bentley
>No one should make anyone else's life hell.
> I don't know what I want or don't want to hear from you all. I
> might just
> be venting but I just can't take this life anymore. I can't watch
> him be so
> mean to his brother, talk so hateful to me or my dh, essentially
> make our
> lives hell.
How have you approached him about his actions?
Do you think he deschooled enough? Ten years of schooling takes time
to overcome; it takes longer for some kids than others.
Is he intense? He might need help negotiating everyday interactions.
Even at 14.
He has had two new siblings after 10 years of being an only. And 4-
year-olds *can* be incredibly annoying to older kids. That doesn't
excuse mean behavior, but perhaps there are underlying feelings he
hasn't had help dealing with?
>How do you show respect for him? This isn't a snide question. I'm just
> I don't expect or even want some fairy tale life, just a life in
> which we
> can all be happy and peaceful more often than not. A life in which his
> little brother isn't afraid of him walking in the room, a life in
> which we
> can all breathe easier and not worry about the next shoe dropping.
> A life
> where the respect is mutual, not just one sided.
wondering what your view of respect is and whether he might be
misinterpreting it.
And though this may not be true for you at all, I wonder sometimes if
people think that unschooling will automatically create always
respectful, happy, peaceful children. When I unschool and parent in a
peaceful way, it's because I believe it's the best life for my child
(and for me, too). It doesn't guarantee anything. And for some kids
(like mine), it takes "more" of it all. More BEing with, more
presence, more understanding, more help. Not always easy. Always worth
it.
Robin B.
>
Marina DeLuca-Howard
Christy you wrote:
***I did 'the research' and
decided that unschooling was the path for us. I was relieved that I
wouldn't have to nag him about homework anymore, that there would be no more
trips to the principal's office, and especially the promise of a better
relationship with my son because it would be based on mutual respect and
exploration.
I pulled him out of school after 5th grade. ***
When *I* tell the story of how my kids chose to enter or leave school they
are the main actors and *I* play the supporting role. * I* don't want to
offend you but* I* am going to throw semantics at you. From what *I *read
your son is invited politely to participate in token ways. *I* don't think
this is unschooling, quite honestly. You got fed up with the homework, you
didn't want to go to the principal's office...You were taking responsiblity
for how he performed in that environs, and you chose to remove him because
it was easier for you. You chose to radical unschool, and then you enforced
your choice. No wonder this kid is mad at you.
When my kids left it was their choice. I gave my opinion that if they
decided to stay I would go to bat for them, and I was not going to shill for
the school. One of my sons chose to go back and we found a democratic
school that allows him the freedom to explore. I tell my kids what I am
comfortable doing, they tell me what they would like and we figure out the
solution together. Some times I take the lead, because I am older and I am
the one that sees the problems and issue more clearly. But at some point
there is a compromise.
*** What bothers me is that despite us doing everything we can to support him
in what he wants to do, despite us inviting him to help plan and/or participate
in family activities, despite us respecting his choices.there have not been
very many moments of *mutual* respect. ***
Respect is invisible. Can't you just make specific requests and respect his
decisions? You aren't truly giving him options if you are invested in the
outcome and resent his choices. I am hearing you want obedience rather than
offering choice. If you can't truly offer a choice at times can you not
just say so honestly?
Marina
--
Life is always happening
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
***I did 'the research' and
decided that unschooling was the path for us. I was relieved that I
wouldn't have to nag him about homework anymore, that there would be no more
trips to the principal's office, and especially the promise of a better
relationship with my son because it would be based on mutual respect and
exploration.
I pulled him out of school after 5th grade. ***
When *I* tell the story of how my kids chose to enter or leave school they
are the main actors and *I* play the supporting role. * I* don't want to
offend you but* I* am going to throw semantics at you. From what *I *read
your son is invited politely to participate in token ways. *I* don't think
this is unschooling, quite honestly. You got fed up with the homework, you
didn't want to go to the principal's office...You were taking responsiblity
for how he performed in that environs, and you chose to remove him because
it was easier for you. You chose to radical unschool, and then you enforced
your choice. No wonder this kid is mad at you.
When my kids left it was their choice. I gave my opinion that if they
decided to stay I would go to bat for them, and I was not going to shill for
the school. One of my sons chose to go back and we found a democratic
school that allows him the freedom to explore. I tell my kids what I am
comfortable doing, they tell me what they would like and we figure out the
solution together. Some times I take the lead, because I am older and I am
the one that sees the problems and issue more clearly. But at some point
there is a compromise.
*** What bothers me is that despite us doing everything we can to support him
in what he wants to do, despite us inviting him to help plan and/or participate
in family activities, despite us respecting his choices.there have not been
very many moments of *mutual* respect. ***
Respect is invisible. Can't you just make specific requests and respect his
decisions? You aren't truly giving him options if you are invested in the
outcome and resent his choices. I am hearing you want obedience rather than
offering choice. If you can't truly offer a choice at times can you not
just say so honestly?
Marina
--
Life is always happening
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lyla Wolfenstein
i totally agree with jenny, and wonder if you have read "parent-teen breakthrough: the relationship approach"
i seriously question your questioning about whether radical unschooling is the "problem" - my relationship with my teen (14 in 3 weeks) is *vastly* improved from just 6 months of RU - and it seems very likely that there are other factors that are causing/contributing to a fracture in your relationship with your teen and his with the rest of the family, that have nothing to do with RU, and would, in fact, be much much worse, if on top of whatever issues are going on, he was also being forced to go to school and eat and come out of his room at specific times, and not play video games, etc. etc.
i'd suggest looking at HIM and your relationship, and his place in the family, and not the lifestyle, in terms of where changes might need to be made.
warmly, Lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
i seriously question your questioning about whether radical unschooling is the "problem" - my relationship with my teen (14 in 3 weeks) is *vastly* improved from just 6 months of RU - and it seems very likely that there are other factors that are causing/contributing to a fracture in your relationship with your teen and his with the rest of the family, that have nothing to do with RU, and would, in fact, be much much worse, if on top of whatever issues are going on, he was also being forced to go to school and eat and come out of his room at specific times, and not play video games, etc. etc.
i'd suggest looking at HIM and your relationship, and his place in the family, and not the lifestyle, in terms of where changes might need to be made.
warmly, Lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Referee's whistle, briefly:
-=-that have nothing to do with RU-=-
Unschooling. Please don't call anything "RU" here. Thanks.
Game on...
These questions are good ones, about what other factors could affect a
teen's behavior. I also noticed he used to be in the principal's
office a lot when he was in school? So the problems aren't about
unschooling.
Mary Gold has a saying... "It's not the unschooling." This seems to
be a prime case of that.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-that have nothing to do with RU-=-
Unschooling. Please don't call anything "RU" here. Thanks.
Game on...
These questions are good ones, about what other factors could affect a
teen's behavior. I also noticed he used to be in the principal's
office a lot when he was in school? So the problems aren't about
unschooling.
Mary Gold has a saying... "It's not the unschooling." This seems to
be a prime case of that.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>>>> He has had two new siblings after 10 years of being an only. And 4-year-olds *can* be incredibly annoying to older kids. That doesn't
excuse mean behavior, but perhaps there are underlying feelings he
hasn't had help dealing with? <<<<
Fourteen is almost adult but luckily there's time for more growing
between now and then.
As newsy as stuff at the bottom is, the post itself was more opinion
(and I do this too so I *know*) than information.
I feel as Pam has said: that I want more information, examples of
specific interactions, which would probably yield more ideas and
options for what Christy can think/do instead of opinions in reply.
~Katherine
[email protected]
>>>> Some times I take the lead, because I am older and I amthe one that sees the problems and issue more clearly. <<<<
Here's something that adults often think about parenting their
children: that adults see more clearly.
They see some things clearly and others not as clearly. As do their
kids.
The difference is that adults generally have more experience in making
decisions and the legal wherewithal and duty to make lots of those
decisions. Children's ability to choose is derived from whatever
decisions parents have the legal right to transfer to their children.
To reiterate: children see some things much more clearly from their own
standpoint than their parents can.
Talk with your children and ask them what they think at least about
some things.
~Katherine
Jenny C
>respect his
> Respect is invisible. Can't you just make specific requests and
> decisions? You aren't truly giving him options if you are invested inthe
> outcome and resent his choices. I am hearing you want obedience ratherthan
> offering choice. If you can't truly offer a choice at times can younot
> just say so honestly?The more you do that honestly, the more it shows how much you respect
>
the individual choices. Sometimes we don't have a choice as to wether
we do something or not, but even within that, there can be choices. If
I need to go to the store and my youngest needs to come with me, we can
have a dozen or more choices within that context, like where to go to
the store, how long we shall be gone, where else we can stop, what we
can purchase, which cart to use, what radio station to listen to in the
car, which seat to sit in, etc.
It's not a directive sent down from the heavens, "though shalt go to the
store and enjoy it!", it's a "we need to go to the store because we have
this narrow time frame in which to do it and we really do need milk and
dog food, and dad isn't home, so you need to come with so that you won't
be home alone, so what would you like to get at the store, and would you
like to stop at the library?"
Christy Putnam
~~~Do you have any insight into his behavior? What does he say about it? If
you were forced to give an explanation, what would you say? I think we
need more to go on. -pam~~~
I have what might be a typical theory of: I think he resents the fact that
he was an only child for 10 years. 8 of which it was just him and me at
home (his father has not been in the picture since he was 3 weeks old).
Being a single mom, I had to work and he had to go to day care then school
but since he was diagnosed ADHD when he was 5, I did everything I could to
take him to school and be home after school so he didn't have to go to day
care because I noticed it over-stimulated him and made behavior worse at
home and school. We had a pretty good relationship then, only really
strained when school/homework was brought into the picture. I did parent
differently - more mainstream and less respectful but it never felt right,
just didn't know other options at the time.
When his stepdad and I got together, Seth loved him and there was this
instant bond. It didn't take as long as I thought it would for Seth to want
to call Chet "Dad" and we never pushed it - it was his idea. We had started
changing our parenting style to being more respectful of him and his
needs/wants. It was a gradual process but it allowed for us to step out of
our own way more when we discovered we discovered we were pregnant. We
involved Seth as much as he wanted to be involved - he even named his
brother. I made a vow that Seth would never have to watch Aden like so many
other families just automatically require of older siblings. When Chet and
I got married, it was really a family thing where we all took vows together
(lots of talking and making sure Seth was okay with it prior to doing it).
We were not in a financial position for me to quit work and bring Seth home
until very late in my pregnancy. We had been talking with him about the
option because he was miserable in school. He was being bullied almost
daily, in trouble daily for talking in class (because he finished his work
and was bored), homework was a battle every night and took forever to
complete because of the struggle - not the difficulty. Then I thought I
*had* to leave him in school for the rest of the year (It was winter break
when I was able to come home and in hind-sight could have brought him home
then, but again I didn't realize I could). Anyway, things seemed to be
going well after Aden was born until he was about a year old. Then Seth
started getting annoyed with him easily and progressively getting more and
more mean with him and us.
We have tried to have discussions with Seth over the years in which we were
completely open to listen and try to figure out what could help us all be
happy and respect each other but Seth shuts down and won't talk with us or
he will seem to tell us what he thinks we want to hear, we all agree to work
together and a week later its back to the same thing. After a more recent
blow-up I asked him why he thinks he is so unhappy in our family and he just
shrugged his shoulders and mumbled, "I dunno." I shared my theory and he
said, "maybe subconsciously." He wouldn't elaborate or say anything more.
I am not sure what else to share about this regarding your questions.
With Utmost Gratitude,
Christy Putnam
Funschooling Mom to Seth (14) , Aden (4) & Emma (born 8/13/08)
Funloving Wife to Chet (7/4/04)
<http://abundantcuriosity.blogspot.com/> Abundant Curiosity
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FYI-OKC/> Funschooling Young Individuals:
FYI-OKC
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OAHAT/> OKC Metro Teen Group - OAHAT
"What good is it for children to have their own particular parents
if the parents are going to treat those individual children
as generic pegs to be stuck into generic holes?"
~ Sandra Dodd from:
<http://www.weirdunsocializedhomeschoolers.com/2009/03/homeschooling-styles-
unschooling.html> Sandra's Guest Blog Post
AFFIRMATION: I am whole, well and unlimited.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
you were forced to give an explanation, what would you say? I think we
need more to go on. -pam~~~
I have what might be a typical theory of: I think he resents the fact that
he was an only child for 10 years. 8 of which it was just him and me at
home (his father has not been in the picture since he was 3 weeks old).
Being a single mom, I had to work and he had to go to day care then school
but since he was diagnosed ADHD when he was 5, I did everything I could to
take him to school and be home after school so he didn't have to go to day
care because I noticed it over-stimulated him and made behavior worse at
home and school. We had a pretty good relationship then, only really
strained when school/homework was brought into the picture. I did parent
differently - more mainstream and less respectful but it never felt right,
just didn't know other options at the time.
When his stepdad and I got together, Seth loved him and there was this
instant bond. It didn't take as long as I thought it would for Seth to want
to call Chet "Dad" and we never pushed it - it was his idea. We had started
changing our parenting style to being more respectful of him and his
needs/wants. It was a gradual process but it allowed for us to step out of
our own way more when we discovered we discovered we were pregnant. We
involved Seth as much as he wanted to be involved - he even named his
brother. I made a vow that Seth would never have to watch Aden like so many
other families just automatically require of older siblings. When Chet and
I got married, it was really a family thing where we all took vows together
(lots of talking and making sure Seth was okay with it prior to doing it).
We were not in a financial position for me to quit work and bring Seth home
until very late in my pregnancy. We had been talking with him about the
option because he was miserable in school. He was being bullied almost
daily, in trouble daily for talking in class (because he finished his work
and was bored), homework was a battle every night and took forever to
complete because of the struggle - not the difficulty. Then I thought I
*had* to leave him in school for the rest of the year (It was winter break
when I was able to come home and in hind-sight could have brought him home
then, but again I didn't realize I could). Anyway, things seemed to be
going well after Aden was born until he was about a year old. Then Seth
started getting annoyed with him easily and progressively getting more and
more mean with him and us.
We have tried to have discussions with Seth over the years in which we were
completely open to listen and try to figure out what could help us all be
happy and respect each other but Seth shuts down and won't talk with us or
he will seem to tell us what he thinks we want to hear, we all agree to work
together and a week later its back to the same thing. After a more recent
blow-up I asked him why he thinks he is so unhappy in our family and he just
shrugged his shoulders and mumbled, "I dunno." I shared my theory and he
said, "maybe subconsciously." He wouldn't elaborate or say anything more.
I am not sure what else to share about this regarding your questions.
With Utmost Gratitude,
Christy Putnam
Funschooling Mom to Seth (14) , Aden (4) & Emma (born 8/13/08)
Funloving Wife to Chet (7/4/04)
<http://abundantcuriosity.blogspot.com/> Abundant Curiosity
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FYI-OKC/> Funschooling Young Individuals:
FYI-OKC
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OAHAT/> OKC Metro Teen Group - OAHAT
"What good is it for children to have their own particular parents
if the parents are going to treat those individual children
as generic pegs to be stuck into generic holes?"
~ Sandra Dodd from:
<http://www.weirdunsocializedhomeschoolers.com/2009/03/homeschooling-styles-
unschooling.html> Sandra's Guest Blog Post
AFFIRMATION: I am whole, well and unlimited.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
>I made a vow that Seth would never have to watch Aden like so manyPerhaps you shouldn't have made a vow like this. Perhaps if he'd felt
> other families just automatically require of older siblings.
more connected in this way, he'd feel differently towards his siblings.
I don't require Chamille to watch Margaux, but I've asked on many
occasions, and I've offered to pay on many more. It's not something
that I abuse at all, it's a priviledge that I use carefully. They love
it when it is just the 2 of them at home, they get along tremendously
when it is just them doing their thing, and that is what it is, their
thing, their bond.
Anyway, things seemed to be
> going well after Aden was born until he was about a year old. ThenSeth
> started getting annoyed with him easily and progressively getting moreand
> more mean with him and us.We've experienced that to a degree. Chamille expected that having a
baby sister would be very different than what it was. She was
disappointed because her little sister cried all the time and never let
her hold her or play with her. She only wanted me, which not only hurt
Chamille's feelings, it also took me away from her more. Double whammy!
Yet is was only because of that awareness that we were able to move
through it and help Chamille handle it better, not perfectly, but
better.
It took a few years, until Margaux was able to spend more time with dad,
which allowed me to spend more time with Chamille. In the meamtime, we
relied heavily on dad, my husband, spending more time with Chamille.
However, you added another person to the mix last year. So, yet again,
your time is taken by another little person, where it could otherwise be
given to Seth. That's gotta be incredibly frustrating for a teenager
who NEEDS his mom and one on one time and focused attention from the
adults in his life.
carenkh
--- In [email protected], "Christy Putnam"
Is it OK for your son to be unhappy? Is it OK for him to dislike his little brother? You might be working toward a goal he doesn't share, but he feels like he "should" share, so it looks like he's going along with you. Then he acts out his honest feelings.
Can he be himself, or are you pushing him to be part of what you picture as the "perfect family"?
Caren
> We have tried to have discussions with Seth over the years in which we wereBefore I knew of radical unschooling, I read "Positive Discipline" and tried the techniques from that book. I learned some through that, but one thing we did over and over (and I didn't even see it at the time) was hold "Family Meetings" where I went in with a specific agenda, and manipulated the discussion so it would go "my way". My husband would want a clean house when he came home from work, so there were agreements to clean before he came home, which were rarely upheld. There was no room for "I don't want to clean, how can we address this?" We were all miserable. No one was being honest - we were trying to be kind to each other, but still get "our way". (Man! I am SO grateful we found radical unschooling!!) I pushed my family into giving up TV this way - but they all agreed, right? They agreed because it's what Mama wanted, and they knew they weren't free to disagree. (not proud of that)
> completely open to listen and try to figure out what could help us all be
> happy and respect each other but Seth shuts down and won't talk with us or
> he will seem to tell us what he thinks we want to hear
Is it OK for your son to be unhappy? Is it OK for him to dislike his little brother? You might be working toward a goal he doesn't share, but he feels like he "should" share, so it looks like he's going along with you. Then he acts out his honest feelings.
Can he be himself, or are you pushing him to be part of what you picture as the "perfect family"?
Caren
Sandra Dodd
--=-
We have tried to have discussions with Seth over the years in which we
were
completely open to listen and try to figure out what could help us all
be
happy and respect each other but Seth shuts down and won't talk with
us or
he will seem to tell us what he thinks we want to hear, we all agree
to work
together and a week later its back to the same thing.-=-
Do you live near any unschooling families you trust enough to maybe
ask that mom or dad to talk with Seth one-on-one? Will you be at any
upcoming conferences? If you want to write to me (or someone else
you might like better) on the side to see if we could figure out
someone to maybe see if they could help unravel or discover something
that would be help, I'd be willing (to try to find someone or to put
you in e-mail contact with someone who might be able to).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We have tried to have discussions with Seth over the years in which we
were
completely open to listen and try to figure out what could help us all
be
happy and respect each other but Seth shuts down and won't talk with
us or
he will seem to tell us what he thinks we want to hear, we all agree
to work
together and a week later its back to the same thing.-=-
Do you live near any unschooling families you trust enough to maybe
ask that mom or dad to talk with Seth one-on-one? Will you be at any
upcoming conferences? If you want to write to me (or someone else
you might like better) on the side to see if we could figure out
someone to maybe see if they could help unravel or discover something
that would be help, I'd be willing (to try to find someone or to put
you in e-mail contact with someone who might be able to).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lyla Wolfenstein
>>>>>>>>>>>Do you live near any unschooling families you trust enough to maybe
ask that mom or dad to talk with Seth one-on-one? Will you be at any
upcoming conferences? If you want to write to me (or someone else
you might like better) on the side to see if we could figure out
someone to maybe see if they could help unravel or discover something
that would be help, I'd be willing (to try to find someone or to put
you in e-mail contact with someone who might be able to).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>i want to really encourage you to take sandra up on this. in my personal experience, having a fresh set of caring eyes, from an unschooling perspective, can do a *world* of good in terms of helping a family over the hump to the next phase of connection and true, deeper understanding.
our close family friend and her kids were here last year, staying with us for a few days, during a really dark time in our family. having that mom to talk to and to witness our struggles was transformational for me - AND - even more importantly - for my (then 13) year old daughter. it was still a long and difficult road to where we find ourselves today - in a MUCH more connected, trusting, and loving place - a place i could only imagine in my dreams up until recently.
we were fortunate in that this friend (she's on this list ;-)) had/has been a close friend since my daughter was 2, so the relationship was already there. but the depth of the connection was massively expanded through that *real* and difficult experience and i think for a teen to have "many mothers" or others outside the nuclear family to whom they feel connected and by whom they feel loved and "seen" is very very valuable.
warmly, Lyla
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marina DeLuca-Howard
I stand corrected in my choice of words...I have enough experience in some
situations and legal and moral obligations bearing down on me that I feel
compelled to share those views with my children. Let me share an example.
I don't police food. I don't have rat poison in the fridge so noone is
going to die a horrific death if they make their own choices. When I am at
parties with conventional parents (we skip a lot of them) and cake or ice
cream is served my middle son will be first in line. The adult scoop or
knife in had will feel it necessary to comment on this. Of course they
aren't at our house watching him balance his diet. His weight is fine, and
he rarely has the sniffles ;). I'm guessing we are good.
Marina
2009/5/12 <katherand@...>
Life is always happening
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
situations and legal and moral obligations bearing down on me that I feel
compelled to share those views with my children. Let me share an example.
I don't police food. I don't have rat poison in the fridge so noone is
going to die a horrific death if they make their own choices. When I am at
parties with conventional parents (we skip a lot of them) and cake or ice
cream is served my middle son will be first in line. The adult scoop or
knife in had will feel it necessary to comment on this. Of course they
aren't at our house watching him balance his diet. His weight is fine, and
he rarely has the sniffles ;). I'm guessing we are good.
Marina
2009/5/12 <katherand@...>
>--
>
> >>>> Some times I take the lead, because I am older and I am
> the one that sees the problems and issue more clearly. <<<<
>
> Here's something that adults often think about parenting their
> children: that adults see more clearly.
>
> They see some things clearly and others not as clearly. As do their
> kids.
>
> The difference is that adults generally have more experience in making
> decisions and the legal wherewithal and duty to make lots of those
> decisions. Children's ability to choose is derived from whatever
> decisions parents have the legal right to transfer to their children.
>
> To reiterate: children see some things much more clearly from their own
> standpoint than their parents can.
>
> Talk with your children and ask them what they think at least about
> some things.
>
> ~Katherine
>
>
>
Life is always happening
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Christy Putnam
~~~Did he want to come home, or would he have preferred to stay in
school?~~~
I replied to Pam's post before reading yours so some of this will be
repeats. He had not asked to come home but I offered the option. We talked
a lot about what unschooling is and how he would stay "caught up" in case he
wanted to go back to school at some point. He wanted to try it out for a
year and see so that was what we did. During that year he expressed
concerns about math particularly and we talked about what might help him
feel better about it. He realized that he used math quite a bit in daily
life and his fears were absolved. The end of the year we talked about him
returning to school and he was happy being at home. A year later he talked
about wanting to go back to school and upon discussing why he wanted to, it
was to hang out with his friends more. When we discussed it further he
decided against going to school because he wouldn't really be hanging out
with them. We also figured out ways for him to get more hang out time with
his schooled friends AND his homeschooled friends.
~~~So the entire life of his little brother (half brother?) his life has
been changed.~~~
Yes, you are correct and yes, half brother.
~~~You've been married since 2004? So Seth has a stepdad? That seems
the biggest factor in what I could see from that post.
You said "funschooling," but one principle is that it's only fun if
everybody's having fun. It's only funny if everyone thinks it's funny.~~~
Yes, Seth has a stepdad whom has been his main/only father figure. I think
it is somewhat of a factor but I think the bigger factor is I think he feels
like we have started over with our own family even though we have done
everything in our power to not distinguish/make it seem that way.
You are absolutely right - this is what I am desperately trying to
accomplish.everybody having fun.
~~~ I comforted myself then with the idea that we
were helping him grow up to live elsewhere, not at home.~~~
I have really tried to focus on that as well but when it comes down to
having to protect Aden from Seth and us living in fear of his temper, what
kind of life is that for the rest of us?
~~~Were his words and actions his own when he was ten years old? Do you take
responsibility
for your words and actions which might have put a wedge between you
and him, or made him feel like an outsider?~~~
For the most part, yes I would say his words and actions were his own when
he was 10. Yes, at least most of the time, I take responsibility for my
words and actions. I will not say I am conscious of it 100% of the time but
I try to be aware of how my choices and things I say might affect others.
When we first started being more respectful parents then unschooling, I made
a point to apologize to Seth about how disrespectful I had been prior to and
that I would work very hard at being respectful. I don't know of anything I
have said or done that would have put a wedge between us or made him feel
like an outsider. If I have inadvertently done so, I wish someone (he or
anyone else) would point it out to me.
~~~ Reins. I want to clarify that it's "pull in the reins," as on a
horse's bridle.
Are you still riding him? Did you give him free rein but not let him
frolic in the pasture?~~~
I knew using that phrase was not really the right wording. The only
'riding' I can think of that I *might* be doing or that he might consider
being riding is trying to protect Aden and the rest of the family from his
bullying (physical for Aden, mental/emotional with us). As respectfully as
I can talk with him and explain how it feels when he does things and remind
him of our agreements to be respectful. He has had free reign since we
started unschooling. We went more radical soon after the first RE
conference we attended the September after his 5th grade year (he was 11 by
then - July bday).
~~~ This also sounds like you made the decision and your son didn't.~~~
It was a joint decision with much discussion. He knows he has the choice to
return to school if he wants, he knows he has the choice to do what he
wants. The thing that seems to be unclear to him is that with these choices
comes responsibility to respect those around him and our financial
situations. He *is* entitled to do, feel, be what he wants and he is free
to do so. That entitlement and freedom ends when others rights to safety
and happiness are being stomped on.
With Utmost Gratitude,
Christy Putnam
Funschooling Mom to Seth (14) , Aden (4) & Emma (born 8/13/08)
Funloving Wife to Chet (7/4/04)
<http://abundantcuriosity.blogspot.com/> Abundant Curiosity
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FYI-OKC/> Funschooling Young Individuals:
FYI-OKC
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OAHAT/> OKC Metro Teen Group - OAHAT
"What good is it for children to have their own particular parents
if the parents are going to treat those individual children
as generic pegs to be stuck into generic holes?"
~ Sandra Dodd from:
<http://www.weirdunsocializedhomeschoolers.com/2009/03/homeschooling-styles-
unschooling.html> Sandra's Guest Blog Post
AFFIRMATION: I am whole, well and unlimited.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
school?~~~
I replied to Pam's post before reading yours so some of this will be
repeats. He had not asked to come home but I offered the option. We talked
a lot about what unschooling is and how he would stay "caught up" in case he
wanted to go back to school at some point. He wanted to try it out for a
year and see so that was what we did. During that year he expressed
concerns about math particularly and we talked about what might help him
feel better about it. He realized that he used math quite a bit in daily
life and his fears were absolved. The end of the year we talked about him
returning to school and he was happy being at home. A year later he talked
about wanting to go back to school and upon discussing why he wanted to, it
was to hang out with his friends more. When we discussed it further he
decided against going to school because he wouldn't really be hanging out
with them. We also figured out ways for him to get more hang out time with
his schooled friends AND his homeschooled friends.
~~~So the entire life of his little brother (half brother?) his life has
been changed.~~~
Yes, you are correct and yes, half brother.
~~~You've been married since 2004? So Seth has a stepdad? That seems
the biggest factor in what I could see from that post.
You said "funschooling," but one principle is that it's only fun if
everybody's having fun. It's only funny if everyone thinks it's funny.~~~
Yes, Seth has a stepdad whom has been his main/only father figure. I think
it is somewhat of a factor but I think the bigger factor is I think he feels
like we have started over with our own family even though we have done
everything in our power to not distinguish/make it seem that way.
You are absolutely right - this is what I am desperately trying to
accomplish.everybody having fun.
~~~ I comforted myself then with the idea that we
were helping him grow up to live elsewhere, not at home.~~~
I have really tried to focus on that as well but when it comes down to
having to protect Aden from Seth and us living in fear of his temper, what
kind of life is that for the rest of us?
~~~Were his words and actions his own when he was ten years old? Do you take
responsibility
for your words and actions which might have put a wedge between you
and him, or made him feel like an outsider?~~~
For the most part, yes I would say his words and actions were his own when
he was 10. Yes, at least most of the time, I take responsibility for my
words and actions. I will not say I am conscious of it 100% of the time but
I try to be aware of how my choices and things I say might affect others.
When we first started being more respectful parents then unschooling, I made
a point to apologize to Seth about how disrespectful I had been prior to and
that I would work very hard at being respectful. I don't know of anything I
have said or done that would have put a wedge between us or made him feel
like an outsider. If I have inadvertently done so, I wish someone (he or
anyone else) would point it out to me.
~~~ Reins. I want to clarify that it's "pull in the reins," as on a
horse's bridle.
Are you still riding him? Did you give him free rein but not let him
frolic in the pasture?~~~
I knew using that phrase was not really the right wording. The only
'riding' I can think of that I *might* be doing or that he might consider
being riding is trying to protect Aden and the rest of the family from his
bullying (physical for Aden, mental/emotional with us). As respectfully as
I can talk with him and explain how it feels when he does things and remind
him of our agreements to be respectful. He has had free reign since we
started unschooling. We went more radical soon after the first RE
conference we attended the September after his 5th grade year (he was 11 by
then - July bday).
~~~ This also sounds like you made the decision and your son didn't.~~~
It was a joint decision with much discussion. He knows he has the choice to
return to school if he wants, he knows he has the choice to do what he
wants. The thing that seems to be unclear to him is that with these choices
comes responsibility to respect those around him and our financial
situations. He *is* entitled to do, feel, be what he wants and he is free
to do so. That entitlement and freedom ends when others rights to safety
and happiness are being stomped on.
With Utmost Gratitude,
Christy Putnam
Funschooling Mom to Seth (14) , Aden (4) & Emma (born 8/13/08)
Funloving Wife to Chet (7/4/04)
<http://abundantcuriosity.blogspot.com/> Abundant Curiosity
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FYI-OKC/> Funschooling Young Individuals:
FYI-OKC
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OAHAT/> OKC Metro Teen Group - OAHAT
"What good is it for children to have their own particular parents
if the parents are going to treat those individual children
as generic pegs to be stuck into generic holes?"
~ Sandra Dodd from:
<http://www.weirdunsocializedhomeschoolers.com/2009/03/homeschooling-styles-
unschooling.html> Sandra's Guest Blog Post
AFFIRMATION: I am whole, well and unlimited.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
>>>>> He has had two new siblings after 10 years of being an only. AndGood grief, I hope so! My 14-year-old would definitely not classify
>>>>> 4-
> year-olds *can* be incredibly annoying to older kids. That doesn't
> excuse mean behavior, but perhaps there are underlying feelings he
> hasn't had help dealing with? <<<<
>
> Fourteen is almost adult but luckily there's time for more growing
> between now and then.
herself as "almost adult."
>Well, I thought I asked questions of Christy, but perhaps they got
>
> As newsy as stuff at the bottom is, the post itself was more opinion
> (and I do this too so I *know*) than information.
lost in my later musings.
>I appreciate the reminder.
>
> I feel as Pam has said: that I want more information, examples of
> specific interactions, which would probably yield more ideas and
> options for what Christy can think/do instead of opinions in reply.
Robin B.
[email protected]
>>>> i think for a teen to have "many mothers" or others outside thenuclear family to whom they feel connected and by whom they feel loved
and "seen" is very very valuable. <<<<
This was true for me as well. I was not an unschooler but I had so
many experiences of other "mothers" in my life that greatly expanded my
reach socially and my ability to understand different ways of
approaching the conflicts I had in my life, which were multi-faceted
and difficult. I still have trouble with a lot of things, and still
have a lot of friends whose thinking enlarges my ability to tackle
conflicts greatly.
~Katherine
Schuyler
It sounds like you are holding him to promises he's made when things are calm you wrote:
"As respectfully as
I can talk with him and explain how it feels when he does things and remind
him of our agreements to be respectful."
I want to respond with something in the post that came in my box immediately after yours:
katherand wrote:
"Unschooling principles exist not to control children, sign them up and
"make" them peace out. This isn't the Geneva conference."
Caren wrote something that applies beautiful to what you've written with regards to "agreements to be respectful" and other mentions of agreements and discussions. I think it might help for you to reread her writing.
"Before I knew of radical unschooling, I read "Positive Discipline"
and tried the techniques from that book. I learned some through that,
but one thing we did over and over (and I didn't even see it at the
time) was hold "Family Meetings" where I went in with a specific
agenda, and manipulated the discussion so it would go "my way". My
husband would want a clean house when he came home from work, so there
were agreements to clean before he came home, which were rarely upheld.
There was no room for "I don't want to clean, how can we address this?"
We were all miserable. No one was being honest - we were trying to be
kind to each other, but still get "our way". (Man! I am SO grateful we
found radical unschooling!!) I pushed my family into giving up TV this
way - but they all agreed, right? They agreed because it's what Mama
wanted, and they knew they weren't free to disagree. (not proud of that)"
---
Have you ever agreed to something when you were calm and not been able to keep that agreement when things are stressful? An agreement to be respectful seems both vague and potential massive. How do you deal with anger and intensity if you have to uphold your agreement to be respectful? If you are in a heated moment is it truly helpful to you if someone says "remember our agreement to be respectful"?
A lot of what you write seems like you have very formal discussions. That may not be the case, I recognize that this format lends itself to more formal writing. So what your writen about discussions about school may falsely sound as though you are sitting down to a family discussion when in practice the discussions were actually happening while you were driving somewhere or while you both were doing something else and the conversation just arose. If discussions here get too formal it becomes a bit like a principal talking to a student, I am the one with the power and Simon or Linnaea are squirming under my powerful gaze. They agree with me and my goals in part because I'm really good at framing my words. It is much better if I mention something in passing, or talk about it when something else is going on.
You wrote that he first wanted to unschool for only a year and then decided to take it on as a permanent thing. I ask Simon and Linnaea, every once in a while, if they want to go to school. I want them to make that choice. I want them to know that they are doing this staying out of school thing because they are choosing to. I would miss them and this life if they did choose to go to school, but I will adjust to give them what they want. And if they change their mind about school if they ever decide to go, I'll be happy to make that adjustment too.
I think you are holding him accountable to agreements in a way that isn't going to help either of you to get along. I think you are trying to fix too many things with words. There is probably nothing you can say that will make him feel good about his brother or his sister. There is probably nothing that you can say that will make him feel better. But there are things you can do. You said when he felt like he wasn't getting enough time with friends you worked to make that less of an issue. Instead of talking about things with him, work to make things better. Give him more time when you can. Sit with him while he plays games, help him to feel more connected with you. Don't worry about his relationship with his brother, do what you can to not let them be alone together. If Aden wants to hang out with Seth, you be there too. If Seth doesn't want Aden around, then make sure that he has his space from Aden. See if you can get time to do stuff just you and
Seth. Ask Chet to watch Aden and Emma and go out to a movie with Seth or do something else that he might enjoy.
Don't spend time looking for what made it all go wrong, look for ways to make it better now. Make sure that you are offering him food at regular intervals, and not verbally, bring him food he likes. Make sure you are offering him things to do that are interesting for him and aren't about tagging along on something more about entertaining a 4 year old. Have his friends over more. If he is more pleasant when he's out, go out with him more.
You wrote:
Yes, Seth has a stepdad whom has been his main/only father figure. I think
it is somewhat of a factor but I think the bigger factor is I think he feels
like we have started over with our own family even though we have done
everything in our power to not distinguish/make it seem that way.
But you've also written a couple of times that he isn't being a part of the
family. It means that whatever you are doing to distinguish that isn't working. You are feeling like he isn't acting like a part of your family. I don't know that I understand how that works. Simon sometimes plays video games and listens to Harry Potter books on cd or ipod and is kind of out of the main family loop. So I make the loop bigger and go and hang out where he is. I make sure that I touch him and sit with him and chat with him and be with him. I find something that he wants to do with me, or I do with him what he is doing. And I bring him food and drink. I include him in my day.
You also wrote:
You are absolutely right - this is what I am desperately trying to
accomplish.everybody having fun.
and
others rights to safety
and happiness are being stomped on.
I think that everybody having fun is outside of your ability. Everybody having fun is something that you can encourage and support, but it is their own choice and ability that makes it so. And while I think that people have a right to be safe in their own home, they don't have a right to happiness. In the U.S. you can argue they have the right to the pursuit of happiness, but not actually to attaining that happiness. Helping everybody to feel safe is a good thing. Helping to make the members of your family have things they enjoy doing and going to places they like to go and finding new things that might also be good to do, those things fall within your remit. But making sure that the outcome is happiness or fun, that is outside of what you can do. It might help to recognize your own limitations.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"As respectfully as
I can talk with him and explain how it feels when he does things and remind
him of our agreements to be respectful."
I want to respond with something in the post that came in my box immediately after yours:
katherand wrote:
"Unschooling principles exist not to control children, sign them up and
"make" them peace out. This isn't the Geneva conference."
Caren wrote something that applies beautiful to what you've written with regards to "agreements to be respectful" and other mentions of agreements and discussions. I think it might help for you to reread her writing.
"Before I knew of radical unschooling, I read "Positive Discipline"
and tried the techniques from that book. I learned some through that,
but one thing we did over and over (and I didn't even see it at the
time) was hold "Family Meetings" where I went in with a specific
agenda, and manipulated the discussion so it would go "my way". My
husband would want a clean house when he came home from work, so there
were agreements to clean before he came home, which were rarely upheld.
There was no room for "I don't want to clean, how can we address this?"
We were all miserable. No one was being honest - we were trying to be
kind to each other, but still get "our way". (Man! I am SO grateful we
found radical unschooling!!) I pushed my family into giving up TV this
way - but they all agreed, right? They agreed because it's what Mama
wanted, and they knew they weren't free to disagree. (not proud of that)"
---
Have you ever agreed to something when you were calm and not been able to keep that agreement when things are stressful? An agreement to be respectful seems both vague and potential massive. How do you deal with anger and intensity if you have to uphold your agreement to be respectful? If you are in a heated moment is it truly helpful to you if someone says "remember our agreement to be respectful"?
A lot of what you write seems like you have very formal discussions. That may not be the case, I recognize that this format lends itself to more formal writing. So what your writen about discussions about school may falsely sound as though you are sitting down to a family discussion when in practice the discussions were actually happening while you were driving somewhere or while you both were doing something else and the conversation just arose. If discussions here get too formal it becomes a bit like a principal talking to a student, I am the one with the power and Simon or Linnaea are squirming under my powerful gaze. They agree with me and my goals in part because I'm really good at framing my words. It is much better if I mention something in passing, or talk about it when something else is going on.
You wrote that he first wanted to unschool for only a year and then decided to take it on as a permanent thing. I ask Simon and Linnaea, every once in a while, if they want to go to school. I want them to make that choice. I want them to know that they are doing this staying out of school thing because they are choosing to. I would miss them and this life if they did choose to go to school, but I will adjust to give them what they want. And if they change their mind about school if they ever decide to go, I'll be happy to make that adjustment too.
I think you are holding him accountable to agreements in a way that isn't going to help either of you to get along. I think you are trying to fix too many things with words. There is probably nothing you can say that will make him feel good about his brother or his sister. There is probably nothing that you can say that will make him feel better. But there are things you can do. You said when he felt like he wasn't getting enough time with friends you worked to make that less of an issue. Instead of talking about things with him, work to make things better. Give him more time when you can. Sit with him while he plays games, help him to feel more connected with you. Don't worry about his relationship with his brother, do what you can to not let them be alone together. If Aden wants to hang out with Seth, you be there too. If Seth doesn't want Aden around, then make sure that he has his space from Aden. See if you can get time to do stuff just you and
Seth. Ask Chet to watch Aden and Emma and go out to a movie with Seth or do something else that he might enjoy.
Don't spend time looking for what made it all go wrong, look for ways to make it better now. Make sure that you are offering him food at regular intervals, and not verbally, bring him food he likes. Make sure you are offering him things to do that are interesting for him and aren't about tagging along on something more about entertaining a 4 year old. Have his friends over more. If he is more pleasant when he's out, go out with him more.
You wrote:
Yes, Seth has a stepdad whom has been his main/only father figure. I think
it is somewhat of a factor but I think the bigger factor is I think he feels
like we have started over with our own family even though we have done
everything in our power to not distinguish/make it seem that way.
But you've also written a couple of times that he isn't being a part of the
family. It means that whatever you are doing to distinguish that isn't working. You are feeling like he isn't acting like a part of your family. I don't know that I understand how that works. Simon sometimes plays video games and listens to Harry Potter books on cd or ipod and is kind of out of the main family loop. So I make the loop bigger and go and hang out where he is. I make sure that I touch him and sit with him and chat with him and be with him. I find something that he wants to do with me, or I do with him what he is doing. And I bring him food and drink. I include him in my day.
You also wrote:
You are absolutely right - this is what I am desperately trying to
accomplish.everybody having fun.
and
others rights to safety
and happiness are being stomped on.
I think that everybody having fun is outside of your ability. Everybody having fun is something that you can encourage and support, but it is their own choice and ability that makes it so. And while I think that people have a right to be safe in their own home, they don't have a right to happiness. In the U.S. you can argue they have the right to the pursuit of happiness, but not actually to attaining that happiness. Helping everybody to feel safe is a good thing. Helping to make the members of your family have things they enjoy doing and going to places they like to go and finding new things that might also be good to do, those things fall within your remit. But making sure that the outcome is happiness or fun, that is outside of what you can do. It might help to recognize your own limitations.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Christy Putnam
~~~In many ways teens need more from
their parents than little kids, more rides to this or that, more in
depth conversations that are uninterrupted by little ones, etc.
How much time is set aside for one on one with him? It could make all
the difference in the world. Not "family" time, since that is clearly
not what he wants, but "mom" time, with just mom, getting coffee or
going to a concert or movie.~~~
You are right, I spend more time transporting him to rehearsals and laser
tag and stuff than the younger two. As well as more so than when he was
younger.
We have tried doing Mom time and even Dad time but what happens is he would
rather be spending time with his friends. We ask him for suggestions of
what he would like to do and get "I dunno." I don't want to discount your
suggestion and maybe we should try individual time again. I just am not
sure how to get closer to him when he seems to not want it. I don't want to
force it on him.
With Utmost Gratitude,
Christy Putnam
Funschooling Mom to Seth (14) , Aden (4) & Emma (born 8/13/08)
Funloving Wife to Chet (7/4/04)
<http://abundantcuriosity.blogspot.com/> Abundant Curiosity
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FYI-OKC/> Funschooling Young Individuals:
FYI-OKC
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OAHAT/> OKC Metro Teen Group - OAHAT
"What good is it for children to have their own particular parents
if the parents are going to treat those individual children
as generic pegs to be stuck into generic holes?"
~ Sandra Dodd from:
<http://www.weirdunsocializedhomeschoolers.com/2009/03/homeschooling-styles-
unschooling.html> Sandra's Guest Blog Post
AFFIRMATION: I am whole, well and unlimited.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
their parents than little kids, more rides to this or that, more in
depth conversations that are uninterrupted by little ones, etc.
How much time is set aside for one on one with him? It could make all
the difference in the world. Not "family" time, since that is clearly
not what he wants, but "mom" time, with just mom, getting coffee or
going to a concert or movie.~~~
You are right, I spend more time transporting him to rehearsals and laser
tag and stuff than the younger two. As well as more so than when he was
younger.
We have tried doing Mom time and even Dad time but what happens is he would
rather be spending time with his friends. We ask him for suggestions of
what he would like to do and get "I dunno." I don't want to discount your
suggestion and maybe we should try individual time again. I just am not
sure how to get closer to him when he seems to not want it. I don't want to
force it on him.
With Utmost Gratitude,
Christy Putnam
Funschooling Mom to Seth (14) , Aden (4) & Emma (born 8/13/08)
Funloving Wife to Chet (7/4/04)
<http://abundantcuriosity.blogspot.com/> Abundant Curiosity
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FYI-OKC/> Funschooling Young Individuals:
FYI-OKC
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OAHAT/> OKC Metro Teen Group - OAHAT
"What good is it for children to have their own particular parents
if the parents are going to treat those individual children
as generic pegs to be stuck into generic holes?"
~ Sandra Dodd from:
<http://www.weirdunsocializedhomeschoolers.com/2009/03/homeschooling-styles-
unschooling.html> Sandra's Guest Blog Post
AFFIRMATION: I am whole, well and unlimited.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>>>> Yes, Seth has a stepdad whom has been his main/only father figure.<<<<
Not as a replacement father figure but just as more experience,
consider cultivating other father figures for your son. There might be
other unschooling dads you could trust who are willing to help in this
way. I posted earlier about mother figures and how important a part
that has played in helping me to see many options and different ways of
thinking about all kinds of things, especially where conflict seemed to
haunt my every step. I wasn't an unschooler yet having other "mothers"
was a great help to me.
>>>> trying to protect Aden and the rest of the family from hisbullying (physical for Aden, mental/emotional with us) <<<<
Consider that this is too much responsibility for a 14 year old. How
is it possible that a 14 year could emotionally or mentally "ride" an
adult? Lack of clarity about the situation probably for one. Also
giving a child something too heavy to be responsible for (for instance,
the mental and emotional outlook of adults) is typical with first born
children. I'm glad you didn't make it his duty to look after Aden. I
think that stems from not feeling able oneself as a new parent mostly.
I'm working overtime myself to provide for Karl's emotional and mental
needs without talking any about my own or giving Karl the duty to help
me with my emotions or thought life. I feel it's very important to
keep my needs filled without directly involving Karl in the
consideration of those, while at the same time reminding him to
consider the feelings of others. So I'm happy that he (like Seth) is
mostly considerate of others. Definitely find other outlets to provide
emotional and mental stability for yourself.
~Katherine
Joanna Murphy
Christy--
I'm finding myself wondering about something. This may be way off the mark--I don't know--but I'm wondering if your son could be feeling a deep anger about having too much responsibility for his own life.
You said that he seemed to change after his baby brother was about a year old. I'm wondering if, as he got a sense of his brother's emerging independence surrounded by nurturing support, if he became angry that he wasn't receiving that same level of connected support? Everything you've said about him was in terms of "his" choice. Did you put too much choice on his 10 year old little shoulders? I've met families that have interpreted the radical unschooling message as everything being the child's choice, and I've seen children who had a sort of anxiety (that I interpreted as being caused by too much responsibility) that made them treat parents very disrespectfully.
How was your transition to radical unschooling? A conversation that happened not too long ago here about autonomy helped cause the biggest shift for me in seeing that things really need to happen in connected partnership. Seeing children as an autonomous island is not helpful to them--it can cause them to feel fearful down deep and then react outwardly in some of the ways you've described. It seems to be pretty common, though, with families coming to radical unschooling with children older than babies. Could your son be feeling some inner insecurity that is driving his behavior?
I've seen children "acting out" to try to get their parents attention (including my own when we threw away the rules and declared ourselves unschoolers--LOL). It's my theory that this is what some people observe when they think that children crave boundaries and limits. I think there is some truth to this, but not in the usual authoritarian sense. I think they are craving connection and guidance. Not the kind of connection where you ask them what they want intellectually--I mean the deeper kind where you just know. And the fact that you have no intuitive sense of what could be going on for him is what is making me wonder why he feels like an isolated island.
" When we first started being more respectful parents then unschooling, I made
I'm wondering if you are spending so much time trying to figure it out that you are not taking steps with him to create more actual peace? He may be waiting for you to re-emerge as a leader in this area. My son can tend toward emotional wallowing, and he depends on me to be the "kick in the pants" voice to help him get unstuck when it's really time to be thinking about moving on. It's not something he can do all the time for himself at this point in time. I empathize, etc., for a while, but then there's a point when things begin to go around in circles, like the needle on the record player being stuck, that I know is my cue to change the tone of the conversation. Maybe your son is waiting for something along those lines?
Like I said--I may be off the mark, but these were the impressions I was getting.
Joanna
I'm finding myself wondering about something. This may be way off the mark--I don't know--but I'm wondering if your son could be feeling a deep anger about having too much responsibility for his own life.
You said that he seemed to change after his baby brother was about a year old. I'm wondering if, as he got a sense of his brother's emerging independence surrounded by nurturing support, if he became angry that he wasn't receiving that same level of connected support? Everything you've said about him was in terms of "his" choice. Did you put too much choice on his 10 year old little shoulders? I've met families that have interpreted the radical unschooling message as everything being the child's choice, and I've seen children who had a sort of anxiety (that I interpreted as being caused by too much responsibility) that made them treat parents very disrespectfully.
How was your transition to radical unschooling? A conversation that happened not too long ago here about autonomy helped cause the biggest shift for me in seeing that things really need to happen in connected partnership. Seeing children as an autonomous island is not helpful to them--it can cause them to feel fearful down deep and then react outwardly in some of the ways you've described. It seems to be pretty common, though, with families coming to radical unschooling with children older than babies. Could your son be feeling some inner insecurity that is driving his behavior?
I've seen children "acting out" to try to get their parents attention (including my own when we threw away the rules and declared ourselves unschoolers--LOL). It's my theory that this is what some people observe when they think that children crave boundaries and limits. I think there is some truth to this, but not in the usual authoritarian sense. I think they are craving connection and guidance. Not the kind of connection where you ask them what they want intellectually--I mean the deeper kind where you just know. And the fact that you have no intuitive sense of what could be going on for him is what is making me wonder why he feels like an isolated island.
" When we first started being more respectful parents then unschooling, I made
> a point to apologize to Seth about how disrespectful I had been prior to andDo you still feel apologetic towards him? Maybe you set up a dynamic where you feel like you are still "making it up to him," or like you deserve his disrespectful treatment. Are you meeting his disrespect genuinely in the moment, or are you trying to be some idea in your head of the perfect unschooling mom reacting in some perfect way? Have you lost the part of yourself as a parent that sets the tone in your house by accommodating his anger?
> that I would work very hard at being respectful. I don't know of anything I
> have said or done that would have put a wedge between us or made him feel
> like an outsider. If I have inadvertently done so, I wish someone (he or
> anyone else) would point it out to me."
I'm wondering if you are spending so much time trying to figure it out that you are not taking steps with him to create more actual peace? He may be waiting for you to re-emerge as a leader in this area. My son can tend toward emotional wallowing, and he depends on me to be the "kick in the pants" voice to help him get unstuck when it's really time to be thinking about moving on. It's not something he can do all the time for himself at this point in time. I empathize, etc., for a while, but then there's a point when things begin to go around in circles, like the needle on the record player being stuck, that I know is my cue to change the tone of the conversation. Maybe your son is waiting for something along those lines?
Like I said--I may be off the mark, but these were the impressions I was getting.
Joanna
Lyla Wolfenstein
You said that he seemed to change after his baby brother was about a year old. I'm wondering if, as he got a sense of his brother's emerging independence surrounded by nurturing support, if he became angry that he wasn't receiving that same level of connected support?
Lyla
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>this is a very very good point. and i want to add - my daughter definitely feels resentment and anger that her brother began receiving at age 9.5 a kind of parenting that she didn't receive til 13 - she know *intellectually* that it would make no sense for me to do things "wrong" (or bad ;-) from an unschooling perspective, with him, just because we did so with her, but it still hurts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm wondering if you are spending so much time trying to figure it out that you are not taking steps with him to create more actual peace? He may be waiting for you to re-emerge as a leader in this area. My son can tend toward emotional wallowing, and he depends on me to be the "kick in the pants" voice to help him get unstuck when it's really time to be thinking about moving on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>absolutely. my daughter needs me to "collect" her, (in gordon neufeld's words) - to reach out to her in ways that are meaningful to HER, and make her an absolute priority for a chunk of time. this has looked as simple and quick ase a 15 minute car ride, to as extensive as a weekend away with me - just me - or me and a group of women friends. in a week and a half she is going with me to the life is good unschooling conference, and my son is not (because he doesn't want to.) last weekend we went on a 2 hour trail ride on horses with an hour and a half drive each way. in june we are going on a mother-daughter camping trip, and again in july, and in august to the HSC conference in CA. these trips have done wonders recently to cement our relationship and help her feel cherished for who she is and her role and place in the family. with much youger kids, those longer trips may be impossible, but it's well worth it to plan some shorter, doable activities just the two of you - and he and his step dad too, maybe.
Lyla
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Lyla Wolfenstein
----- Original Message -----
From: Christy Putnam
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:27 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Radical Unschooling Let Down
>>>>>>>>>>>>
You are right, I spend more time transporting him to rehearsals and laser
tag and stuff than the younger two. As well as more so than when he was
younger.
We have tried doing Mom time and even Dad time but what happens is he would
rather be spending time with his friends. We ask him for suggestions of
what he would like to do and get "I dunno." I don't want to discount your
suggestion and maybe we should try individual time again. I just am not
sure how to get closer to him when he seems to not want it. I don't want to
force it on him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
have you read "hold onto your kids: why parents matter more than peers" by gordon neufeld? highly recommend it. when my daughter prefers peers it's when we are disconnected or things are strife-filled at home. i wouldn't ask for suggestions - i'd make plans and "collect" him. that's not the same as force.
lyla
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Joanna Murphy
> We have tried doing Mom time and even Dad time but what happens is he wouldI would spend some time thinking about this issue--I think it's a big signpost for you into what's going on. If you haven't read Gordon Neufeld, Hold On To Your Kids, now is a good time (translation: crucial time!)!!
> rather be spending time with his friends. We ask him for suggestions of
> what he would like to do and get "I dunno." I don't want to discount your
> suggestion and maybe we should try individual time again. I just am not
> sure how to get closer to him when he seems to not want it. I don't want to
> force it on him.
Lyla mentioned the idea of "collecting" your kids, and that's what I was thinking about too. And the more you are getting that he doesn't seem to want to spend time with you, the more important it might be.
Joanna
[email protected]
>>>> I don't want to discount yoursuggestion and maybe we should try individual time again. I just am not
sure how to get closer to him when he seems to not want it. I don't
want to
force it on him. <<<<
Try smaller individual time that isn't about joining in at first so
much as giving food you know he especially likes, commenting on
something he's doing that's interesting to you, reconnecting in small
almost incremental ways. It will take time to build on to that. If a
relationship has gone cold from lack of frequent contact it takes a
while to warm it back up. That's not forcing. You're his mom, and he
only has one of those. Make your relationship something he will
remember happily. It sounds like there was some turmoil when he was
younger and now lots of attention to the younger kids, and now he's
resigned himself to mom getting upset about it and he doesn't know how
to change it.
~Katherine
Lyla Wolfenstein
Try smaller individual time that isn't about joining in at first so
much as giving food you know he especially likes, commenting on
something he's doing that's interesting to you, reconnecting in small
almost incremental ways. It will take time to build on to that. If a
relationship has gone cold from lack of frequent contact it takes a
while to warm it back up. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
yes! especially if he's staying up most of the night - bring him a fun snack at midnight! see if you are welcome to flop on his bed and joke around a bit. bring a cool funky movie you think he might like and see if he'll watch it with you. spontaneously invite him out for his favorite food at 10pm! etc.
Lyla
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much as giving food you know he especially likes, commenting on
something he's doing that's interesting to you, reconnecting in small
almost incremental ways. It will take time to build on to that. If a
relationship has gone cold from lack of frequent contact it takes a
while to warm it back up. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
yes! especially if he's staying up most of the night - bring him a fun snack at midnight! see if you are welcome to flop on his bed and joke around a bit. bring a cool funky movie you think he might like and see if he'll watch it with you. spontaneously invite him out for his favorite food at 10pm! etc.
Lyla
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Christy Putnam
~~~How have you approached him about his actions?~~~
If he is being mean to Aden, I have to intervene quickly which sometimes
means having to yell to get his attention. I have tried talking with him
after the fact when we have both calmed down. I have tried talking with him
in general long after the fact to see if it being less fresh would help the
communication process. It seems like nothing works. He insists that the way
he acts is our fault as if he has no control over what he says or does.
Almost as if we are puppeteers.
~~~ Do you think he deschooled enough? Ten years of schooling takes time
to overcome; it takes longer for some kids than others.~~~
I am not sure that there is a point in which deschooling stopped. I mean,
to me deschooling is a period of time in which the family is getting past
the schooling time and more used to being a family that spends more time
together (building the relationship back) before getting started in some
other form of homeschooling. Deschooling for us just gradually turned into
unschooling and really looked much the same.if not exactly the same.
~~~Is he intense? He might need help negotiating everyday interactions. Even
at 14.~~~
I am not sure how to answer this. I am thinking that if he were intense as
you say, I would be able to say, Yes he is. He handles everyday
interactions just fine with others.
~~~perhaps there are underlying feelings he
hasn't had help dealing with?~~~
probably but I don't know how to help him when he won't let me in.
~~~ How do you show respect for him? This isn't a snide question. I'm just
wondering what your view of respect is and whether he might be
misinterpreting it.~~~
Well, let's see. I try to treat him as I would want to be treated - as I
treat my friends and family and strangers: speaking respectfully, gently
instead of yelling, demanding, demeaning. Asking his opinion, what he
wants/needs and honoring differences of opinion and doing what I can to meet
his needs. Asking for help in doing various things and being okay with an
answer of no. I am not sure if he is misinterpreting or not.
~~~ I wonder sometimes if
people think that unschooling will automatically create always
respectful, happy, peaceful children.~~~
Wow, this would be great! if there could be a guaranteed way to have this
result.dreamy!
~~~ More BEing with, more
presence, more understanding, more help. Not always easy. Always worth
it.~~~
I agree, always worth it. How does one do this without forcing themselves
on the teen?
With Utmost Gratitude,
Christy Putnam
Funschooling Mom to Seth (14) , Aden (4) & Emma (born 8/13/08)
Funloving Wife to Chet (7/4/04)
<http://abundantcuriosity.blogspot.com/> Abundant Curiosity
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FYI-OKC/> Funschooling Young Individuals:
FYI-OKC
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OAHAT/> OKC Metro Teen Group - OAHAT
"What good is it for children to have their own particular parents
if the parents are going to treat those individual children
as generic pegs to be stuck into generic holes?"
~ Sandra Dodd from:
<http://www.weirdunsocializedhomeschoolers.com/2009/03/homeschooling-styles-
unschooling.html> Sandra's Guest Blog Post
AFFIRMATION: I am whole, well and unlimited.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If he is being mean to Aden, I have to intervene quickly which sometimes
means having to yell to get his attention. I have tried talking with him
after the fact when we have both calmed down. I have tried talking with him
in general long after the fact to see if it being less fresh would help the
communication process. It seems like nothing works. He insists that the way
he acts is our fault as if he has no control over what he says or does.
Almost as if we are puppeteers.
~~~ Do you think he deschooled enough? Ten years of schooling takes time
to overcome; it takes longer for some kids than others.~~~
I am not sure that there is a point in which deschooling stopped. I mean,
to me deschooling is a period of time in which the family is getting past
the schooling time and more used to being a family that spends more time
together (building the relationship back) before getting started in some
other form of homeschooling. Deschooling for us just gradually turned into
unschooling and really looked much the same.if not exactly the same.
~~~Is he intense? He might need help negotiating everyday interactions. Even
at 14.~~~
I am not sure how to answer this. I am thinking that if he were intense as
you say, I would be able to say, Yes he is. He handles everyday
interactions just fine with others.
~~~perhaps there are underlying feelings he
hasn't had help dealing with?~~~
probably but I don't know how to help him when he won't let me in.
~~~ How do you show respect for him? This isn't a snide question. I'm just
wondering what your view of respect is and whether he might be
misinterpreting it.~~~
Well, let's see. I try to treat him as I would want to be treated - as I
treat my friends and family and strangers: speaking respectfully, gently
instead of yelling, demanding, demeaning. Asking his opinion, what he
wants/needs and honoring differences of opinion and doing what I can to meet
his needs. Asking for help in doing various things and being okay with an
answer of no. I am not sure if he is misinterpreting or not.
~~~ I wonder sometimes if
people think that unschooling will automatically create always
respectful, happy, peaceful children.~~~
Wow, this would be great! if there could be a guaranteed way to have this
result.dreamy!
~~~ More BEing with, more
presence, more understanding, more help. Not always easy. Always worth
it.~~~
I agree, always worth it. How does one do this without forcing themselves
on the teen?
With Utmost Gratitude,
Christy Putnam
Funschooling Mom to Seth (14) , Aden (4) & Emma (born 8/13/08)
Funloving Wife to Chet (7/4/04)
<http://abundantcuriosity.blogspot.com/> Abundant Curiosity
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FYI-OKC/> Funschooling Young Individuals:
FYI-OKC
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OAHAT/> OKC Metro Teen Group - OAHAT
"What good is it for children to have their own particular parents
if the parents are going to treat those individual children
as generic pegs to be stuck into generic holes?"
~ Sandra Dodd from:
<http://www.weirdunsocializedhomeschoolers.com/2009/03/homeschooling-styles-
unschooling.html> Sandra's Guest Blog Post
AFFIRMATION: I am whole, well and unlimited.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]