paxagrarian

My daughter, Sophia, turns four next week. This past year she has gone two mornings a week to a nursery school at the YMCA. I was hesitant to do this, but did do it because I was working at the YMCA during those hours, was encouraged to by two friends whose sons were enrolled in the program, and because I thought my daughter would really enjoy it. She has always been very, very social and always wants to be wherever other children are. Well, she does indeed LOVE it. She asks me every day how many more days until she goes to school and her eyes absolutely light up when I tell that tomorrow she goes to the YMCA. She has never once wanted to stay home from the program, even when she had the stomach flu. Her only sibling at this point just turned one, so there's not that kind of kid play opportunity at home.

I have always wanted to do some form of homeschooling/unschooling with her. I discovered the concept of radical unschooling in November and am definitely drawn in that direction and have begun to move slowly in that direction at home. (I ws never really rule oriented to begin with.) Now, however, my daughter wants to go to preschool like the other children will do next year. Of course, she doesn't have a real conception of preschool, other than that is where other children will be and perhaps that it will have that school structure to it. Perhaps that is part of what she likes. I don't know for sure. I just know she LOVES going to the YMCA nursery school.

I have told her we are going to do something different at home. I have plans to enroll her in swimming and gymnastics at the YMCA to give her some of that social dynamic she seems to crave and gather with friends often. (By the way, I know of no other people in my rather rural locale who would call what they are doing unschooling. I know lots of school-at-homers, mainly from a Christian mindset.) Part of me regrets sending her to the YMCA nursery school, but how can I regret something that has given her so much joy?

So, I am having my doubts about keeping her home. If the point of unschooling is to follow their interests, shouldn't I allow her the joy she gets from going to school? I have read the section on school choice on Sandra's website, but I feel like she is so young and that she will never not want to go (at least during the fun preschool year next year) and therefore I will loose her to the school model. I feel like it will be years before she ever asks to stay home, if she ever does. This really makes me sad, but I don't want to keep her home just because that is what I want. I want her to want it to, but she is so young, I almost feel like she doesn't really know the alternatives yet. However, isn't the unschooling philosophy to let them discover it for themselves and not make these decisions for them?

Thank you so much for any thoughts/ideas/words of wisdom.

Blessings,
elizabeth in NY state

[email protected]

>>>> My daughter, Sophia, turns four next week. This past year she has
gone two mornings a week to a nursery school at the YMCA. I was
hesitant to do this, but did do it because I was working at the YMCA
during those hours, was encouraged to by two friends whose sons were
enrolled in the program, and because I thought my daughter would really
enjoy it. She has always been very, very social and always wants to be
wherever other children are. Well, she does indeed LOVE it. She asks
me every day how many more days until she goes to school and her eyes
absolutely light up when I tell that tomorrow she goes to the YMCA.
She has never once wanted to stay home from the program, even when she
had the stomach flu. Her only sibling at this point just turned one,
so there's not that kind of kid play opportunity at home. <<<<

So are they using a subject curriculum or is it undirected play? It
sounds like your child likes to play with other kids. Enrolled in a
nursery. Is this for the sake of having a spot open for her to be
there? It's not actually school enrollment, is it, even thought it's
called "school." Is the nursery school basically a babysitting
provision for people at the Y?

On the days she is home is there some place you can take her that she
could play with kids? I have taken Karl to McDonald's play places,
parks, libraries, children's museums, walking around the neighborhood,
friends' houses and so forth. There are all sorts of impromptu and
planned child play opportunities, especially in a city environment.
You're not limited to the YMCA. It's fun there and other places too.

~Katherine

Kim Zerbe

Since you will be signing her up for classes like gymnastics at the same Y
she's been going to, just tell her that she is going to school! School does
changes as kids grow older. She's going to the same place, likely with some
of the same kids. That can go on for years actually! Other kids will
eventually be doing "after school" activities while that is your child's
"school" but it doesn't matter what you call it if she enjoys it and gets
her social needs met.

My son is almost 5 and has taken classes at our local parks and rec center
since he was 1 or 2 (these are wonderful classes in all sorts of things:
mostly sports and arts). For the younger kids the classes are only 30-45
mins and super cheap (like $12 for 4 classes). As they get older they move
to 45-60 min classes (and the price goes up to a whopping $18-20 for 4
classes). We did a lot the year he was 3 because he expressed a lot of
interest in sports, so he did soccer, baseball, gymnastics, etc. and he
loved going and doing the classes. Incidentally, we are not doing any
classes right now because he doesn't want to go anywhere, which I am a
little sad about but that is a whole other story. (I am honoring his need to
stay home even though I feel he needs to get out more and be around other
kids, but we have play dates with our local unschooling group sometimes that
seems to satisfy his current group social needs. I guess in due time he may
want to take classes again. We just got the summer class catalog and I will
ask him if he'd like to take any classes.)

Anyway, I had a good laugh one day when he was 3 and when we went to the
playground park that is right next to the rec center where he took classes
and he pointed and said, "There's my school!" So after that when he had a
class there, we were going to school. Most of the sports classes were taught
by a wonderful teacher named Michelle who seemed knowledgeable in all sports
and had an incredible amount of patience with small children. She even had
her own teenage children help her with the classes sometimes (as they'd
break the kids into smaller groups). Her oldest college age son is now
teaching some classes on his own! We really lucked out in finding such a
great teacher and having a cheap parks and rec dept close by.

I had always intended to homeschool and had wondered what it would be like
if my son ever asked to go to school, and that curiousity was satisfied by
finding out that he was going to "school" with his "teacher" Michelle! I
think I miss the classes more than he does! But they also satisfied family
members (daddy included) ideas that Damon needs to be around kids his own
age more. I've been getting more questions about when he's starting classes
again. **sigh**


Kim Zerbe



<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=4410250/grpspId=1705542111/msgId
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Jenny C

>>>I want her to want it to, but she is so young, I almost feel like she
doesn't really know the alternatives yet. However, isn't the unschooling
philosophy to let them discover it for themselves and not make these
decisions for them?>>>

How many alternatives have you shown her? With a child so young, it's
not as much about letting them discover it for themselves, but bringing
things to them and them to things for discovery to happen.

What about co-ops, or part time preschool, or continuing the YMCA
program? Why does it need to be all or nothing? Classes are a good
idea, but not necessarily the best for social ops. Good old free play
at the playground or play gym are really good for being able to play
with other kids.

Verna

--- In [email protected], "Jenny C" <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
>
>
> >>>I want her to want it to, but she is so young, I almost feel like she
> doesn't really know the alternatives yet. However, isn't the unschooling
> philosophy to let them discover it for themselves and not make these
> decisions for them?>>>
>
When my oldest was about that age we had a similiar situation. He went to a kind of preschool two mornings aweek. It was not really academic but had some structure to it. He liked playing on the playground and being with the kids. He kind of wanted to go back the next year so we talked about what he liked about it and then provided him with those things in other ways. He primarily like playing on the playground and playing with the kids so we did lots of park days and playgroups.

Pam Sorooshian

On 5/7/2009 5:11 PM, Jenny C wrote:
> Good old free play
> at the playground or play gym are really good for being able to play
> with other kids.
>
>

Join or start a homeschool group for free play and maybe some planned
activities. You can set up planned activities so they aren't school
like. Parents can pick a theme (with kids' input and interests in mind).
For example, you can have "music day." Each family puts together some
kind of "music day" activity. Maybe they bring some interesting musical
instruments and the kids try them out. Maybe they bring a "science"
activity - it is fun to bring lots of things to bang on like drums
(oatmeal boxes, pot lids, etc.) and put rice on them so you can actually
see the vibrations), maybe someone teaches everyone to sing a round
together. We've done music day, dice day, lego day, take-apart day,
airplanes day, international day, "sun" day, archaeology day, colonial
america day, westward movement day, rhyming day, mud day, games day, old
photos day, candlemaking, balloon day, soldering day, origami day, rock
day, erosion day, science experiments you can eat day, light day, puzzle
day, and on and on.

Kids were not required to participate - some kids always just played in
the park the entire time. Some kids did every activity offered. Mostly
they were not group activities, but each parent would set up a station
and kids would go around and do whatever interested them. We did these
at parks. Also had holiday celebrations and once a month science day and
every other week a sports day and the kids put on plays together and we
went on tours together and went camping together, etc.

After about 6 or 7 years of that - my kids wanted a lot more free play,
fewer elaborate planned activities. So we started another group and the
goal of the group as stated was to protect their free play time. We did
also offer an occasional activity - but it would be just one or two
activities on a day rather than the 10 or sometimes even more that our
old group would have in one day. Take-apart day - everyone brought lots
of tools and old broken appliances. Candle making, origami, bubbles,
bottle rockets, rope-making, etc. Lower key than our previous group.

Both groups are still going - some people go to both, some to just one
or the other, depending on what their kids like. My now-18 year old
still goes most weeks and plays games with her buddies. She started when
she was 4 years old.

If you have a really social kid - this is something you can do. They
won't want to go to school if it means missing out on that much fun with
friends. It is a lot of work, but also really a lot of fun. I know
someone who puts on activities like this in her back yard on a regular
basis. She charges a little for it - makes a little money on it. She
does all the work and so can offer stuff her own kids really enjoy.
Built-in social life for her kids, too.

I want to be clear these are very much NOT school-type activities. They
are hands-on fun things to do. At "colonial day" for example, one person
brought clay and the kids made clay marbles and learned to play marble
games from back then. Someone brought big washtubs and washboards with
lots of doll clothes and some kids spent the day scrubbing clothes and
hanging them up to dry.

-pam

ellinghamsandwich

i personally feel that children under about 7 or 8 love school because they get to see the same 'tribe' of kids every day...it gives them a sense of belonging and they develop those friendships every day more and more...

this is tough on a lot of kids who are homeschooled/unschooled as they do not often have that consistency...they miss their friends who live far away or too far to see every day or even every week or more...

i don't think its all or nothing... it IS finding a balance but when we parents who have already put our young kids in schools want for our kids to want the true freedom unschooling "consists of" (pun intended!)this is not easy to undo...they get hooked and want to stay put w/ their 'clan'. they get to thinking in their reality that this is IT and this is where they belong and they aren't budging. makes sense, really...

i have expressed that this is very difficult to not send my daughter back to school once the year is up (and on into the grades...)but as much as she protests unschooling, i trust that at 6 yrs old she really does not comprehend the alternative...which for me isn't even an 'alternative'. it is true freedom. it is truly LIVING. i don't believe that schools of any sort are truly living FULLY for children...and i don't feel that is going to extremes.

lis

--- In [email protected], "Jenny C" <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
>
>
> >>>I want her to want it to, but she is so young, I almost feel like she
> doesn't really know the alternatives yet. However, isn't the unschooling
> philosophy to let them discover it for themselves and not make these
> decisions for them?>>>
>
> How many alternatives have you shown her? With a child so young, it's
> not as much about letting them discover it for themselves, but bringing
> things to them and them to things for discovery to happen.
>
> What about co-ops, or part time preschool, or continuing the YMCA
> program? Why does it need to be all or nothing? Classes are a good
> idea, but not necessarily the best for social ops. Good old free play
> at the playground or play gym are really good for being able to play
> with other kids.
>

[email protected]

>>>> i have expressed that this is very difficult to not send my
daughter back to school once the year is up (and on into the
grades...)but as much as she protests unschooling, i trust that at 6
yrs old she really does not comprehend the alternative...which for me
isn't even an 'alternative'. it is true freedom. it is truly LIVING. i
don't believe that schools of any sort are truly living FULLY for
children...and i don't feel that is going to extremes. <<<<

Pulling a child out of school who wants school rids the child of as
much freedom as taking a child to school who doesn't want school. On
the important issues in a child's life, freedom isn't freedom where no
choice is allowed.

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

"....this is tough on a lot of kids who are homeschooled/ unschooled as they do not often have that consistency..."

That is not necessaraly true. My kids have known  some of their friends since they were little.
We get together every week  usually.
Like school, some come and go but there are a few who have been getting together since very young.
 
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
 







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Sandra Dodd

-=-
"....this is tough on a lot of kids who are homeschooled/ unschooled
as they do not often have that consistency..."-=-

The original comment was qualified with "they do not often..."

Some kids I went to school with were there throughout. Except for
first grade, I went to Espanola Elementary, Espanola Jr. High and
Espanola High School. Some kids I went to school with were there for
a year, or part of a year, and had been in six other schools before.
So even kids who go to school aren't guaranteed any consistency.

My kids have friends from their childhoods and babyhoods, but it's
more that we haven't moved, and that we participated in La Leche
League and the SCA than anything else.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

>>>> i have expressed that this is very difficult to not send my
daughter back to school once the year is up (and on into the
grades...)but as much as she protests unschooling, i trust that at 6
yrs old she really does not comprehend the alternative.yrs old she r
isn't even an 'alternative'isn't even an 'alternative'<WBR>. it is tr
don't believe that schools of any sort are truly living FULLY for
children...and i don't feel that is going to extremes. <<<<

>>>>Pulling a child out of school who wants school rids the child of as
much freedom as taking a child to school who doesn't want school. On
the important issues in a child's life, freedom isn't freedom where no
choice is allowed. <<<<



When our daughter was 4, she definitely wanted to go to school. She too
loved the local playgroup she attended. We'd been vaguely considering home
education but felt that she was asking for the structure and especially the
social life that school offered, and so we enrolled her. Would we have
taken the same decision now we know better; now we've seen how the classes
bored her and the peer pressure almost stifled her individuality? I think we
might still have let her cross the threshold and enter the first class to
satisfy her curiosity, but we'd have been much more alert to the warning
signs that she was increasingly unhappy. It shouldn't have taken us 7 years
to finally take the plunge and deregister her. If we'd been truly
listening we might well have taken her out before she finished her first year.

If you do allow your child the freedom of choice in this way it may well be
good to be prepared that she may change her mind quite soon. But watch
and listen with great care because (if our experience is anything to go by)
even if she hates the place, she may not openly voice her wish to leave
school until some years later.

I hope at least that our mistakes can help you make the right decision for
your child.

Jude x


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ellinghamsandwich

alex,
may i ask where your kids met these other kids? did they go to school (your children) i hope that my daughter's friends now (the ones who are the most precious to her...) will be able to stay in touch (via their parents/grandparents) come next fall...i really do. but i do know how people can be...as soon as either they or we get outside of an arena socially, the relationships aren't nurtured anymore... so this is what i'm fretting about sometimes for my daughter.

i'm going to join our local christian homeschool groups as the local unschooler group so far isn't feeling right to me...i'll give it a shot for a few more months but i also will try the other. thing is, i'm not christian. they are welcoming though and don't need to know this... they do so much together and we do know one family already who we like a lot. they swim here at the resort we live at as the dad's parents stay here in the summertime. so that in itself is a nice connection. :O)

lis

--- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
>
> "....this is tough on a lot of kids who are homeschooled/ unschooled as they do not often have that consistency..."
>
> That is not necessaraly true. My kids have known  some of their friends since they were little.
> We get together every week  usually.
> Like school, some come and go but there are a few who have been getting together since very young.
>  
> Alex Polikowsky
> http://polykow.blogspot.com/
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

ellinghamsandwich

i truly do not believe this...reason being is she is still so young (which i've already shared) and doesn't comprehend the choices she has! if she were older, i feel it'd be different.

how am i giving my child a choice when she has been in school the past year? how am i givine my son a choice if he is unschooled and all of a sudden wants to go to kindergarten because his friends from some playground go? i don't know...but i think once they are older its more rational...but not when they are so young.

also, and you can call me selfish if you want to (and i'm humble enough to take it) but i want a lifestyle for us that school does NOT offer. in fact, i'm tired of women especially feeling guilty and that we are selfish for what we need in our lives, in our families... and after all, these ARE children that we have been blessed with caring for and raising...i just feel that when it comes to a family's lifestyle, the parents usually set the course and the kids follow. then, ironically, we follow their lead... if that makes any sense.

lis

--- In [email protected], katherand@... wrote:
>
> >>>> i have expressed that this is very difficult to not send my
> daughter back to school once the year is up (and on into the
> grades...)but as much as she protests unschooling, i trust that at 6
> yrs old she really does not comprehend the alternative...which for me
> isn't even an 'alternative'. it is true freedom. it is truly LIVING. i
> don't believe that schools of any sort are truly living FULLY for
> children...and i don't feel that is going to extremes. <<<<
>
> Pulling a child out of school who wants school rids the child of as
> much freedom as taking a child to school who doesn't want school. On
> the important issues in a child's life, freedom isn't freedom where no
> choice is allowed.
>

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

I joined local homeschool groups, I got involved and set up gatherings myself, some I had met a the LaLeche Meetings since my son was 5 months old.
Go for it. I am very outgoing and that helps.
I also had to let got of trying to find friends for ME in the parents. I get along with all and some have become friends but I look for friends to my kids not myself.
 

 
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
 







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