Sandra Dodd

Two things for people who don't love e-mail lists as much as they
might like these other types of unschooling resources:

There's a chat Monday afternoon my time, way different times other
places--general unschooling discussion

http://sandradodd.com/chats/regular
Times are there.

I was shy to say so, but Lee Stranahan made two YouTube videos of me
talking about unschooling. These might help for people who are
suspicious of my "tone" in writing. There it is in voice and facial
expression. It might make you feel better about reading my posts (or
make the posts read differently in your head).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoG6j8eTjyY
Sandra Dodd Pt 1 : Path To Unschooling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWOGCg4sHTI
Sandra Dodd Pt 2: Unschooling & Real Learning

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

They are wonderful. I think they should be required viewing as a
prerequisite to being on this list. <g>

-pam

On 5/3/2009 9:50 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> I was shy to say so, but Lee Stranahan made two YouTube videos of me
> talking about unschooling. These might help for people who are
> suspicious of my "tone" in writing. There it is in voice and facial
> expression. It might make you feel better about reading my posts (or
> make the posts read differently in your head).
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoG6j8eTjyY
> Sandra Dodd Pt 1 : Path To Unschooling
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWOGCg4sHTI
> Sandra Dodd Pt 2: Unschooling& Real Learning
>
> Sandra
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-ps: I love that the background is a bookshelf full of books and
games, did you choose to sit there on purpose?-=-

I showed Lee several places we could use and he chose that one, partly
for the background probably, and partly maybe because there was a big
empty table there for equipment (perhaps).

The room we were in was documented last year because someone said I
was an anti-intellectual or anti-book person or something.

http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2008/03/books-shun-or-not-to-shun.html

The second video there. The chair that shows when I was showing the
folklore and philosophy section is right where I was sitting the day
Lee Stranahan recorded that interview! The card table wasn't there.
There was a big jigsaw puzzle there the day of the library tour, and I
don't think I ever did turn around and show the table. It's a folding
gate-leg table, and it's not always up and out in there, but it was
both of those days.

Sandra





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Darcel

Thanks so much for these. My husband is going to love them. He's been looking vids for homeschooling on you tube.

Darcel

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> Two things for people who don't love e-mail lists as much as they
> might like these other types of unschooling resources:
>
> There's a chat Monday afternoon my time, way different times other
> places--general unschooling discussion
>
> http://sandradodd.com/chats/regular
> Times are there.
>
> I was shy to say so, but Lee Stranahan made two YouTube videos of me
> talking about unschooling. These might help for people who are
> suspicious of my "tone" in writing. There it is in voice and facial
> expression. It might make you feel better about reading my posts (or
> make the posts read differently in your head).
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoG6j8eTjyY
> Sandra Dodd Pt 1 : Path To Unschooling
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWOGCg4sHTI
> Sandra Dodd Pt 2: Unschooling & Real Learning
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-Thanks so much for these. My husband is going to love them. He's
been looking vids for homeschooling on you tube.-=-

That can be nearly dangerous! There are some odd things in there.
One person has a rant or two (presentation) about unschooling, and
then one assuring the world that Christmas is actually some kind of
mushroom-worshiping holiday and all should do 'shrooms. (If that
person is on this list, I'm not apologizing. Sheesh! Way to make us
all look like lunatics!)

There are some that are reviews of what others have written and said,
designed to funnel people toward certain websites or beliefs and away
from the general availability of unschooling information. That
bothers me. I did name my website, but the very first page leads out
to lots of other websites. God knows I don't try to keep people
stuck on my pages or this list. I'm saying all the time "If you
don't like it, scoot!" (I guess I've not said it in exactly those
words until now...)

The quality of information and motive isn't uniformly high.

There are a few things that could be easily uploaded and put to an
iPod or mp3 player, and some of those are available because of Lee
Stranahan too (and Lauren, who's on this list). You can go to the
source of these and download them directly to listen to elsewhere.
They're me, and one has me and Richard Prystowsky, and one is Ren
Allen and me:

http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
http://sandradodd.com/rentalk
http://sandradodd.com/introduction
http://sandradodd.com/radio
http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2008/09/corrections-and-comments.html

And this is a really old one that's not been announced because it's
hard to understand and needs some notes and images to make better sense:

http://sandradodd.com/whatteachersknow
That was twelve years ago.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meghan

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

> I was shy to say so, but Lee Stranahan made two YouTube videos of me
> talking about unschooling. These might help for people who are
> suspicious of my "tone" in writing. There it is in voice and facial
> expression. It might make you feel better about reading my posts (or
> make the posts read differently in your head).
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoG6j8eTjyY
> Sandra Dodd Pt 1 : Path To Unschooling
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWOGCg4sHTI
> Sandra Dodd Pt 2: Unschooling & Real Learning
>
> Sandra
>

Thanks for posting those Sandra.
I enjoyed 'seeing' you again :-)

Meghan

Darcel

Thank you so much for these links. Hubby said he liked you, and everything you said in the other vids made him really think.
We will check these out together later this week.

I noticed there were some odd ones out there. He doesn't really know what he's looking for.

Darcel

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-Thanks so much for these. My husband is going to love them. He's
> been looking vids for homeschooling on you tube.-=-
>
> That can be nearly dangerous! There are some odd things in there.
> One person has a rant or two (presentation) about unschooling, and
> then one assuring the world that Christmas is actually some kind of
> mushroom-worshiping holiday and all should do 'shrooms. (If that
> person is on this list, I'm not apologizing. Sheesh! Way to make us
> all look like lunatics!)
>
> There are some that are reviews of what others have written and said,
> designed to funnel people toward certain websites or beliefs and away
> from the general availability of unschooling information. That
> bothers me. I did name my website, but the very first page leads out
> to lots of other websites. God knows I don't try to keep people
> stuck on my pages or this list. I'm saying all the time "If you
> don't like it, scoot!" (I guess I've not said it in exactly those
> words until now...)
>
> The quality of information and motive isn't uniformly high.
>
> There are a few things that could be easily uploaded and put to an
> iPod or mp3 player, and some of those are available because of Lee
> Stranahan too (and Lauren, who's on this list). You can go to the
> source of these and download them directly to listen to elsewhere.
> They're me, and one has me and Richard Prystowsky, and one is Ren
> Allen and me:
>
> http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
> http://sandradodd.com/rentalk
> http://sandradodd.com/introduction
> http://sandradodd.com/radio
> http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2008/09/corrections-and-comments.html
>
> And this is a really old one that's not been announced because it's
> hard to understand and needs some notes and images to make better sense:
>
> http://sandradodd.com/whatteachersknow
> That was twelve years ago.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Adrean Clark

I checked the videos out of curiosity -- love the background too :D
Is there some chance there's a transcript somewhere? I'm asking
because I'm thinking of sending it to my mother to help her understand
a little more about unschooling...

Adrean

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

Sandra has a great effect in husbands. My dh Brian heard her talk on Peaceful Parenting and now loves Sandra.
He got a lot from  meeting other unschooling parents and just following my lead ( he trusts me on parenting)
He did  read a few things on Rue Kream's book years ago as it was laying around the family room.
But since then he met Ben Lovejoy and David Waynforth  ( He also loves Schuyler and specially Kelly)  and that has been a huge
influence on him to trust.


 
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
 







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-
Sandra has a great effect in husbands. My dh Brian heard her talk on
Peaceful Parenting and now loves Sandra.-=-

Uh... Thanks! Yes, thanks. I had to think about it a minute. <g>

I always think Joyce Fetteroll's site is the ultimate convincer of
husbands. But hey, we have LOTS for them (and increasing more).

http://sandradodd.com/dads

They don't write as much as we do, those dads.

http://sandradodd.com/lyleperry

Lyle Perry did write a lot, for a while. Although he didn't talk
about it much on the list, he was working and being house-husband and
taking care of his two boys and his wife, who was bedridden with
mental illness, but he kept on taking care of her and dealing with her
parents who acted like (and said!) there was nothing wrong with her,
she was fine. He wanted to get unschooling quickly, and he did. He
helped others get it too, by being willing to share his changing
thoughts in public.

They moved from the small midwestern home in which they had grown up
to a mountainous western place (not near me, unfortunately) and I
still hear from him occasionally. They're ALL, every one of them,
much better. They all get out and explore and his kids have been
offered opportunities kind of the way my kids have, and it's good!

It's good to find a few families to keep up with on the side, too, as
you move into and through this unschooling world. Not everyone can
share everything online, but sometimes side friendships can blossom
and stay.

Also, January in Santa Fe, there will be a whole Friday afternoon for
the dads to talk without moms saying "Yeah, but." It pains me to
think of the things Keith might say, because he still comes out with
some ghost-inside-him sayings now and again, but I bet with the group
of them all in one place some strength will come, too. And laughter,
for sure, because I know sometimes the guys are afraid. It will help
for them to see the dads of teens being calm and smiling.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On 5/6/2009 8:54 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> Also, January in Santa Fe, there will be a whole Friday afternoon for
> the dads to talk without moms saying "Yeah, but." It pains me to
> think of the things Keith might say, because he still comes out with
> some ghost-inside-him sayings now and again, but I bet with the group
> of them all in one place some strength will come, too. And laughter,
> for sure, because I know sometimes the guys are afraid. It will help
> for them to see the dads of teens being calm and smiling.
>

My husband will be there, too. He definitely has his own unique
perspective on unschooling. He's from Iran - such a different culture
than the one we live in. So he had to make two HUGE shifts, over the
years. First to a Southern California American culture and then to
radical unschooling. If you think radical unschooling is a shift for
westerners, think about what an incredible shift it is for someone who
comes from such a paternalistic, authoritarian, traditional, and
sometimes quite brutal and oppressive cultural background. His schooling
was brutal by our worst public school standards. It was 6 days per week,
much longer school days. The typical educational method involved
assigning work to be done at home and then presented in front of the
class. Those whose presentations were not adequate were shamed and
humiliated and physically punished. For example, the teacher would weave
a pencil between a child's fingers and, with the hand flat on the desk,
the teacher would hit their hand. The teacher would put rice on the
floor and make the child kneel on it with bare knees, for a long time.

My husband is kind and gentle and sweet. He was raised in what I'd call
a very enlightened family. He came to this country at 23 years old,
though, so he grew up with all that stuff. Children were expected to
jump when told to jump and to be extremely obedient - obedience is a
very highly valued trait in that culture.

He has adjusted to unschooling, never really fully "getting it" but
knowing that our kids were doing well. Over time, he's been pretty happy
with it. Most definitely he's happy with the kinds of relationships we
have with our kids which is VERY different than any adult-child
relationships he'd ever known. He's still a little taken aback with how
independent our kids are and how self-confident they are. He still
sometimes thinks they should "ask permission" more often. Rosie, who is
18, has planned a trip with her boyfriend and other friends to go visit
someone two states away - they'll be gone about 2 weeks. They're very
responsible and are carefully making plans. Great kids. But he was
irritated that she told us they were going instead of asking if she
could go. These kinds of irritations pop up for him - mostly it has to
do with this kind of thing - them making their own (big) plans. Partly
this is his reaction to them growing up, too. In Iran, as long as girls
aren't married, while they still live at home, they are completely under
the thumb of their father. They wouldn't dream of making plans without
getting his approval first.

So - each step of the way, as we've moved from babies to toddlers to
mid-age children to teens to young adults, there have been new
challenges for him. It hasn't always been easy.

So - like Sandra - I cringe a little thinking of what my husband MIGHT
say, but it will be good for other dads to hear his concerns and how
they've evaporated (again and again). It'll probably be good for my
husband, too. He doesn't spend much time thinking about any of this
stuff - it'll help him to look back over the years and get some perspective.

-pam

Sandra Dodd

-=- Rosie, who is
18, has planned a trip with her boyfriend and other friends to go visit
someone two states away - they'll be gone about 2 weeks. They're very
responsible and are carefully making plans. Great kids. But he was
irritated that she told us they were going instead of asking if she
could go. -=-

I read this to Holly, and we got big eyes. I said "Marty still asks."

Holly said "We always ask."

I said, "Yeah, but sometimes it means '...so will you help make sure
this happens?'"

They ask. Our answer would never be "no you can't," but it might be
"Have you thought about this, and this and this?"

Then I said Marty didn't ask when he, Brett Henry and Julie McClure
got the wild idea to to see Kirby RIGHT THEN. But he did come and
tell us, as he was gathering stuff up and we were asking him all kinds
of checklisty questions and asking whether they might not want to wait
until the next week, but they were fired up to go. He was 19, they
went in Brett's car, and they were back in two days. Because of
phones and texts, we were able to know where they were and that they
were fine. We had a chance to talk him out of it. He didn't sneak
away.

When my kids ask if they can do something, it's not with the
expectation that we'll say "no." It's the same way I ask Keith or
Keith asks me. It's "Am I forgetting a prior commitment, or would I
be unavailable for something I didn't know about, or is the car needed
for other things?"

Sandra






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On 5/6/2009 11:30 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> When my kids ask if they can do something, it's not with the
> expectation that we'll say "no." It's the same way I ask Keith or
> Keith asks me. It's "Am I forgetting a prior commitment, or would I
> be unavailable for something I didn't know about, or is the car needed
> for other things?"
>
>

Of course Rosie "asked" about the trip in many ways. She didn't count on
it without running it by us, but her approach was not to go to him and
say, "I would like your permission to begin planning this trip." It was
the group of friends, over time, vaguely talking about it and,
eventually, the timing seemed right and the possibility became real. It
developed. And then she ran it by us, when it seemed like they might
really be able to make it happen.

The first I heard of it was, "Hey, we're thinking about going up to
Washington to visit Davin." Pause. Waiting for my input. Me: "Good
idea.Who is going and when are you thinking of going?" Rosie tells me
who is involved and says: "We still need to figure out how long it'll
take to get there and how long we want to stay and all that." Me:
"You'll need somewhere to stay along the way, too, because it is too far
to drive in one day - its probably around 20 hours of actual driving
time." Rosie: "Yeah, I'm just running it by you to see what you think,
we haven't got the plans all made yet."

Followed by a LOT of discussions about dates and where to stay and did
his mom want you to stay there and lots of other considerations.

Cyrus heard about it the same way - but with the plans a little more
firm-sounding because she'd already talked to me.

And it is all still under discussion and the original dates were
switched around to make room for a soccer tournament that Cyrus was
thinking about taking a team to, but hadn't mentioned to anybody yet.

It isn't like she would come and sort of belligerently say, "I'm going
on a trip and you can't stop me and I don't care whether it is
convenient for you or not," or anything like that.

If Holly and Brett decided they'd like to take a trip to, say,
California (which would be cool, by the way), they probably wouldn't go
to Keith and say, "We are coming to for your permission to take a trip
to California. Do you give us your permission or not?" They'd probably
say, "We were thinking about a trip to California. What do you think?"
And then discuss it. And they'd be asking with the assumption that he'd
be helpful in figuring out how to make it happen or in helping them see
why it wasn't a good idea. They really wouldn't be going to him simply
for his "permission" - his absolute "yes" versus "no."

What Cyrus's background gives him is the urge to be the one who gets to
make absolutely arbitrary immediate decisions for his children, no
matter how old they are or how responsible. In his sometimes-wished-for
scenario it would go like this - Rosie: "Baba, can I have your
permission to plan a trip this summer to Washington?" Cyrus: "No."
Rosie: "Okay."

Done. What he wants (once in a while has the urge, I mean, not most of
the time) is that kind of unquestioning immediately obedient handing
over of control to himself. That's how he grew up. He might say, "Can I
go outside?" And an adult would say, "No." He wasn't allowed to question
that response. He might be shamed or even hit or beaten if he questioned
it. Our kids might just go outside or they might say, "I'm going out
side" and wait for any objection or comment or they might say, "Is it
okay with you if I go outside?" and expect us to either say yes or say
why we don't think it is a good idea.

So - he's not like this. I'm afraid now I'm giving a false impression. I
was confessing that, indeed, he fights these internal battles because of
HIS own background - far more extreme than most Americans, at least, can
probably imagine.

And, once in a while, these urges rear their ugly head - usually it is
when other emotions are involved (like Rosie even HAVING a boyfriend at
all comes with its own issues for him, as her dad).

So - I'm saying he might bring up that kind of thing to the other men at
the event in Santa Fe. He doesn't go to many of the unschooling events -
he isn't that interested in talking about unschooling -too much of it is
boring to him. But he's agreed to this one - so he'll be there.

-pam

Sandra Dodd

-=-It isn't like she would come and sort of belligerently say, "I'm
going
on a trip and you can't stop me and I don't care whether it is
convenient for you or not," or anything like that.-=-

I figured, but thanks for clarifying. Maybe some people who have
known or who were themselves belligerent teens might've pictured it
less peacefully.

Holly and I were also trying to figure out how many states could
possibly the the "two states away" destination. Not Texas, but New
Mexico! Maybe. Utah? Probably Washington, I said. <g>

All very true:
-=-If Holly and Brett decided they'd like to take a trip to, say,
California (which would be cool, by the way), they probably wouldn't go
to Keith and say, "We are coming to for your permission to take a trip
to California. Do you give us your permission or not?" They'd probably
say, "We were thinking about a trip to California. What do you think?"
And then discuss it. And they'd be asking with the assumption that he'd
be helpful in figuring out how to make it happen or in helping them see
why it wasn't a good idea. They really wouldn't be going to him simply
for his "permission" - his absolute "yes" versus "no."-=-

-=- He doesn't go to many of the unschooling events -
he isn't that interested in talking about unschooling -too much of it is
boring to him. But he's agreed to this one - so he'll be there.-=-

Keith's going to San Diego, but generally he opts out of meetings and
discussions too. He was at the Live and Learn in St. Louis, but very
often in the room, being introverted and storing up a burst of "ta-
daa!" to take back outside.

I can't predict the San Diego behavior, but I think because we're the
local sponsor/organizer family for the Santa Fe conference, he'll
probably be high energy the whole time. I've seen him be the
autocrat of large SCA events, so I know he has it in him. :-)

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

>>>> What he wants (once in a while has the urge, I mean, not most of
the time) is that kind of unquestioning immediately obedient handing
over of control to himself. That's how he grew up. He might say, "Can I
go outside?" And an adult would say, "No." He wasn't allowed to question
that response. He might be shamed or even hit or beaten if he questioned
it. <<<<

This is how we were brought up too. In America. It was definitely
falling out of parenting fashion in my generation, and certainly wasn't
anything I would have admitted to as a child.

Asking questions about the no's we usually received to requests was
spoken of as "back talking" or "sassing your momma/daddy." How's that
for old-fashioned? We knew better than to ask "why" or get too
obviously disappointed because there was that "don't be a baby" about
disappointments and the threat of a spanking if we made them feel too
bad about it or had a "tantrum."

Gosh I'm glad school wasn't like that too.

~Katherine

Joanna Wilkinson

>
> -=- He doesn't go to many of the unschooling events -
> he isn't that interested in talking about unschooling -too much of it is
> boring to him. But he's agreed to this one - so he'll be there.-=-
>
> Keith's going to San Diego, but generally he opts out of meetings and
> discussions too. He was at the Live and Learn in St. Louis, but very
> often in the room, being introverted and storing up a burst of "ta-
> daa!" to take back outside.
>
> I can't predict the San Diego behavior, but I think because we're the
> local sponsor/organizer family for the Santa Fe conference, he'll
> probably be high energy the whole time. I've seen him be the
> autocrat of large SCA events, so I know he has it in him. :-)
>
> Sandra
>
Hey guys!
Haven't posted in a loooong while. Still reading almost every day though.
When i brought Bob to that conference in 2003 in SC I was a little afraid of what he would say when Ben Lovejoy took all the dads to the bar for a Top Secret Dads meeting. He came back telling me all this great stuff he was saying to all the newbie dads. (sorry Ben he fessed up when asked) I was shocked! I was amazed at how much sank in when I thought he really wasn't listening. He gave lots of great, "trust them" types of advice.
I justs sent your you tube link to a friend Sandra. I added that you and Bob jammed together at that conference, and mentioned the Sponge Bob song he sang.
Great times!

Joanna Wilkinson

Pam Sorooshian

Miss you, Joanna!!!

I think it is really likely that what my husband will say will be very
encouraging to other dads. He'll openly confess his own doubts and his
own difficulties in operating as an unschooling dad, but he also will
talk about how our kids have learned so much and grown into such cool
young women!

-pam

On 5/6/2009 4:26 PM, Joanna Wilkinson wrote:
>> -=- He doesn't go to many of the unschooling events -
>> he isn't that interested in talking about unschooling -too much of it is
>> boring to him. But he's agreed to this one - so he'll be there.-=-
>>
>> Keith's going to San Diego, but generally he opts out of meetings and
>> discussions too. He was at the Live and Learn in St. Louis, but very
>> often in the room, being introverted and storing up a burst of "ta-
>> daa!" to take back outside.
>>
>> I can't predict the San Diego behavior, but I think because we're the
>> local sponsor/organizer family for the Santa Fe conference, he'll
>> probably be high energy the whole time. I've seen him be the
>> autocrat of large SCA events, so I know he has it in him. :-)
>>
>> Sandra
>>
>>
> Hey guys!
> Haven't posted in a loooong while. Still reading almost every day though.
> When i brought Bob to that conference in 2003 in SC I was a little afraid of what he would say when Ben Lovejoy took all the dads to the bar for a Top Secret Dads meeting. He came back telling me all this great stuff he was saying to all the newbie dads. (sorry Ben he fessed up when asked) I was shocked! I was amazed at how much sank in when I thought he really wasn't listening. He gave lots of great, "trust them" types of advice.
> I justs sent your you tube link to a friend Sandra. I added that you and Bob jammed together at that conference, and mentioned the Sponge Bob song he sang.
> Great times!
>
> Joanna Wilkinson
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Sandra Dodd

The business about asking or telling, from earlier in this thread,
seems important to me because it's about the range of communications.
None of it was extreme. It was all in the communicative middle area,
where kids are honest and parents are their facilitators. Many
families live all on the harsh or neglectful edges.

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

-=-I added that you and Bob jammed together at that conference, and
mentioned the Sponge Bob song he sang.
Great times!-=-

Bob was SO good! There were several of us, singing harmonies and I
got to play some flute parts on the recorder, and he was great. I
think of that night pretty often.

If this next January symposium in Santa Fe goes well, meaning if
people like the facilities, I'd like to do another thing specifically
on music, and one on art (and unschooling, but mostly art and music).
I figured it could be a couple or three days of show'n'tell and
sharing knowledge and tricks.

At the Arizona conference I did The Titanic with sing-alongs, and in
San Diego Keith and I are going to do the Snap, Crackle, Pop song with
the best of other singers who will learn it between now and then. I
just sent a solicitation to the list for that conference, and before
Joanna reminded me of having sung with her husband years ago.

Maybe some of you will be in San Diego in September and haven't joined
that list yet, or maybe some of you would like to learn this to sing
it in Santa Fe in February, or just wherever. <g>

Here's what I sent:

There's no big rush to know, but if there's anyone here who feels
confident enough to sing one on a part the "Snap, Crackle, Pop" song,
I have a three-minute talent-show job for you.

Keith and I are in, and we could use one more person, or four more, or
seven more... I don't care how many we have on a part, as long as
each singer is good enough to be precise so that the other parts can
be heard. There will be much confusion.

The song is here, and I've ordered some music, but I'm not sure if it
will be over-simplified or "as originally written" as opposed to "as
performed." If anyone goes to the song and feels brave and able,
though, please e-mail me and I'll let you know (when I know) whether
the music is useable or whether we'll be doing it by ear from this:

http://thinkingsticks.blogspot.com/2009/03/snap-crackle-pop.html

People don't need to learn all three parts, just one, so pick the one
you like best or that fits your voice best. They're all the same
range, basically, but "Snap" goes lower. Crackle goes to the top of
the range, but the last line in each part does the octave up to that
anyway. That last line might be the hardest part.

After the performance, others can sing with us later, but I want
strong voices for the talent show (and then we can share it around for
the rest of the conference).

Thanks,

Sandra
at
SandraDodd.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn L. Coburn

Looks like we will be at Good Vibrations. Look like we'll be doing nitrogen
ice cream. James will talk to anyone about his perspective - and he won't
support anyone in their bs. I can't even begin to fathom how much harder my
life would be with a dh who didn't get unschooling. He knows it in his heart
and soul - it's in him - intuitively. He would have been a perfect kid to be
an unschooler if only his parents were up for it. I am so lucky.

Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com

[email protected]

>>>> The business about asking or telling, from earlier in this thread,
seems important to me because it's about the range of communications.
None of it was extreme. It was all in the communicative middle area,
where kids are honest and parents are their facilitators. <<<<

One thing I noticed is that both yes and no are extremes. The vast
majority of the info about doing and not doing are in between or maybe
even aside or apart from yes or no. Guess who I noticed that from:
Karl. He consistently avoids verbally saying yes or no. And I think I
posted not very long ago somewhere that when I commented to Karl that
he rarely uses those words (and I was irritated about it at the time),
he said that he had already said it. "Mom, when I mean yes I do this"
... his eyes light up and a little enthusiastic body language follows.
"And when I mean no, I do this," followed by quiet and a sidelong
glance away from the conversation, so ... more body language. I know I
do that a lot too, many times without realizing it. It's amazing to me
how clear Karl is about that and how fuzzy I was about it.

That's about answers. What about questions? They're interesting too.

When Karl "asks" something it's rarely in the form of a question. I
know I've written about that before here on this list. Rather than
ask, he comments about a plan to do something, and if I have an
objection to his plan for some reason he's fine with amending the plan
after a little discussion to something better or safer or more timely
or whatever. That kind of communication builds trust in the
relationship, whereas asking for permission and waiting for a verbal
yes or no doesn't have the same kind of effect.

~Katherine

Ren Allen

~~I justs sent your you tube link to a friend Sandra. I added that you and Bob jammed together at that conference, and mentioned the Sponge Bob song he sang.
> Great times!~~

That was the very first time Sierra went on stage for any reason and I sat there shocked because she was usually SO quiet and shy at that time in her life. She MC'd the talent show at our most recent ARGH gathering in March. My how things change.:) I have fond memories of her very first sing along on stage with Bob and Marji though...

Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com

Schuyler

I feel, like you with James, that I am so lucky to have David. He'll be talking about food choice at Life is Good, something that was once a big stumbling block for both of us. And because he watched and listened and researched and got a handle and it moved out into everything else he can tell me when to back down and to breathe and to relax. And he feels comfortable enough with his role in our family to help other people to get a handle on unschooling. I feel very lucky.

Schuyler




________________________________
From: Robyn L. Coburn <dezigna@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, 7 May, 2009 2:20:05 AM
Subject: Re: Dads Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: an online chat and a youtube note

Looks like we will be at Good Vibrations. Look like we'll be doing nitrogen
ice cream. James will talk to anyone about his perspective - and he won't
support anyone in their bs. I can't even begin to fathom how much harder my
life would be with a dh who didn't get unschooling. He knows it in his heart
and soul - it's in him - intuitively. He would have been a perfect kid to be
an unschooler if only his parents were up for it. I am so lucky.

Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

From Unforeseen Benefits of Unschooling
http://sandradodd.com/unexpected

******************************
I didn’t expect to like to lose arguments.
I enjoy it when my kids win an argument with me or Keith. We've
laughed about that later when we're alone. Keith used to be bothered
if they were that way, years ago. He didn't call it "talking back" or
anything, but he was surprised each time he saw it. I told him I
figured if they could win arguments with me, they'd do okay for
themselves out in the world. That made sense to him, so he started
willingly engaging them in "yeah, but..." kinds of discussions, and as
time passed we all got better at it and clearer about our priorities.

******************************



I answered the 20 questions survey project here (it's not up yet, but
I'll let you know when it is) and linked the unforeseen benefits of
unschooling. I think I only did 18 questions, but still it was a lot
of writing, so when the question was what was unexpected came up, I
opted to link instead of write again. I liked the quote above in
light of the discussion about asking and telling and fatherly
expectations.



Sandra

[email protected]

I wrote:

>>>> When Karl "asks" something it's rarely in the form of a question.
I know I've written about that before here on this list. Rather than
ask, he comments about a plan to do something, and if I have an
objection to his plan for some reason he's fine with amending the plan
after a little discussion to something better or safer or more timely
or whatever. That kind of communication builds trust in the
relationship, whereas asking for permission and waiting for a verbal
yes or no doesn't have the same kind of effect. <<<<

Elsewhere, Sandra wrote:

>>>> I didn’t expect to like to lose arguments.
I enjoy it when my kids win an argument with me or Keith. <<<<


Karl frequently comes up with something else entirely or introduces the
funniest tweaks ever.. and not infrequently, he makes it plain how I'm
not right about something. I still resist admitting that.

Slow to change,
~Katherine