Cultural Unschooler
diana jenner
>Typing this explanation struck a chord with me... what if we used the term
> I actually discussed the Susan Boyle thing with a deaf friend (she is not
> culturally Deaf, hence the *d*eaf)
>
unschooling for those who didn't use curriculum, and Unschooling for those
who embrace whole life or radical Unschooling? A small part of your life vs
the whole of your life.
To the rest of the world, the distinction between deaf and Deaf probably
goes unnoticed. For those of us who've lived/worked/loved in the Deaf World
understand it's Grand Significance. There are lots of folks who can't hear,
not all are Deaf. Deaf is a cultural indicator, usually meaning the
person's first, primary & preferred language is American Sign Language;
you'll find Deaf folk more often socializing with (and marrying) other Deaf
individuals. deaf folk, like my friend Drew, often grow up using various
modes of communication, generally in a public school/mainstreamed setting,
not necessarily preferring ASL over other signed communication; she
socializes mostly with "hearing" people who aren't fluent signers. And,
sometimes the deaf become Deaf :D
I thought that followed the same thought path as the two "versions" (if you
will) of Unschooling/unschooling ;)
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I thought that followed the same thought path as the two
"versions" (if you
will) of Unschooling/unschooling ;)-=-
It seems fine with me.
Yesterday I was asked whether I liked or didn't like "radical
unschooling" as a term.
It's an interesting question. I forget that my webpage says "Radical
Unschooling" right across the top. I would have called it
"unschooling" but someone who was already at expage.com had already
used that name, so I used radical.
Then I never changed that page.
But I don't use "radical unschooling" outside of discussions about
unschooling. And with strangers, I just say my kids don't go to
school, or didn't go to school, or we homeschooled.
I'm not at all comfortable with the "RU" useage--not even in writing,
but worse, some people are using it as a word, and as a verb "we ru'd,
or "ruing."
I think Unschooling with a capital U is a good alternative.
And I know it's not a great word, but for people new to the list and
the ideas, here's a what and why about the "un" in "unschool":
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/theterm
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"versions" (if you
will) of Unschooling/unschooling ;)-=-
It seems fine with me.
Yesterday I was asked whether I liked or didn't like "radical
unschooling" as a term.
It's an interesting question. I forget that my webpage says "Radical
Unschooling" right across the top. I would have called it
"unschooling" but someone who was already at expage.com had already
used that name, so I used radical.
Then I never changed that page.
But I don't use "radical unschooling" outside of discussions about
unschooling. And with strangers, I just say my kids don't go to
school, or didn't go to school, or we homeschooled.
I'm not at all comfortable with the "RU" useage--not even in writing,
but worse, some people are using it as a word, and as a verb "we ru'd,
or "ruing."
I think Unschooling with a capital U is a good alternative.
And I know it's not a great word, but for people new to the list and
the ideas, here's a what and why about the "un" in "unschool":
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/theterm
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
It's difficult for me at times to change so many of my ideas about how
people relate. I'm learning a different set of cultural cues and
responses.
That makes total sense to me to say that unschooling is like learning a
language. The awkwardness, the fear of making mistakes, the insecurity
of whether or not we're expressing ourselves clearly. Oh actually it
sounds like the difficulty so many of us have with intimacy. :D
The thought that unschooling is like learning a new language also
presents a less polarized comparison of school and unschooling, where
unschooling is not really the opposite of school or schooling nor is
each set up in a dichotomy against the other, in a dual.
We're translating our familiar points of view into new perspectives.
We're learning to live our lives in simplicity, right next to our core
values, rather than lacking the words in our old "language" of school
to, as much as possible, be true to ourselves.
~Katherine
people relate. I'm learning a different set of cultural cues and
responses.
That makes total sense to me to say that unschooling is like learning a
language. The awkwardness, the fear of making mistakes, the insecurity
of whether or not we're expressing ourselves clearly. Oh actually it
sounds like the difficulty so many of us have with intimacy. :D
The thought that unschooling is like learning a new language also
presents a less polarized comparison of school and unschooling, where
unschooling is not really the opposite of school or schooling nor is
each set up in a dichotomy against the other, in a dual.
We're translating our familiar points of view into new perspectives.
We're learning to live our lives in simplicity, right next to our core
values, rather than lacking the words in our old "language" of school
to, as much as possible, be true to ourselves.
~Katherine
On Apr 24, 2009, at 4:52 PM, diana jenner wrote:
>>
>> I actually discussed the Susan Boyle thing with a deaf friend (she is
>> not
>> culturally Deaf, hence the *d*eaf)
>>
>
> Typing this explanation struck a chord with me... what if we used the
> term
> unschooling for those who didn't use curriculum, and Unschooling for
> those
> who embrace whole life or radical Unschooling? A small part of your
> life vs
> the whole of your life.
>
> To the rest of the world, the distinction between deaf and Deaf
> probably
> goes unnoticed. For those of us who've lived/worked/loved in the Deaf
> World
> understand it's Grand Significance. There are lots of folks who can't
> hear,
> not all are Deaf. Deaf is a cultural indicator, usually meaning the
> person's first, primary & preferred language is American Sign Language;
> you'll find Deaf folk more often socializing with (and marrying) other
> Deaf
> individuals. deaf folk, like my friend Drew, often grow up using
> various
> modes of communication, generally in a public school/mainstreamed
> setting,
> not necessarily preferring ASL over other signed communication; she
> socializes mostly with "hearing" people who aren't fluent signers.
> And,
> sometimes the deaf become Deaf :D
>
> I thought that followed the same thought path as the two "versions"
> (if you
> will) of Unschooling/unschooling ;)
> ~diana :)
> xoxoxoxo
> hannahbearski.blogspot.com
> hannahsashes.blogspot.com
> dianas365.blogspot.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
JoyErin
I feel very lucky that I clicked on the cultural unschooler email sent to
the list. I don't keep up with the list very well most days. The title
caught my eye though.
I'm really interested in learning BSL, took my first class last week and
loved reading about the differences between the Deaf/deaf words for those in
the know.
I really like that idea for unschool vs. Unschool. Be great if that could
become known to those in the know too. A good way to easily understand the
differences when
emailing and such.
Joy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the list. I don't keep up with the list very well most days. The title
caught my eye though.
I'm really interested in learning BSL, took my first class last week and
loved reading about the differences between the Deaf/deaf words for those in
the know.
I really like that idea for unschool vs. Unschool. Be great if that could
become known to those in the know too. A good way to easily understand the
differences when
emailing and such.
Joy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kelly_sturman
the ideas, here's a what and why about the "un" in "unschool":
how much I love Geoffrey Holder's voice, and his laugh.
I used to get mixed up about the term "deschooling,"
even though you explain it in great detail and provide
links to others' definitions of it too! My own experience
in school was so negative that I used to think of deschooling
as analogous to detoxing, as if that what we are moving away
from (school) is something that is inherently not good (like a
toxin).
But that's not it at all. The deschooling link helps me
to get what deschooling *is*, and so does the balance
link. And I like, but can't find, the one that talks about
choosing to go to school, on one's own terms.
Kelly Sturman
> http://sandradodd.com/unschool/thetermThanks for reminding us about this link. I had forgotten
how much I love Geoffrey Holder's voice, and his laugh.
I used to get mixed up about the term "deschooling,"
even though you explain it in great detail and provide
links to others' definitions of it too! My own experience
in school was so negative that I used to think of deschooling
as analogous to detoxing, as if that what we are moving away
from (school) is something that is inherently not good (like a
toxin).
But that's not it at all. The deschooling link helps me
to get what deschooling *is*, and so does the balance
link. And I like, but can't find, the one that talks about
choosing to go to school, on one's own terms.
Kelly Sturman
Sandra Dodd
-=-But that's not it at all. The deschooling link helps me
to get what deschooling *is*, and so does the balance
link. And I like, but can't find, the one that talks about
choosing to go to school, on one's own terms.-=-
http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice
When I want to find a link and I'm already in my site, I just add
garbage to the end of the link like a;spoiwer.aksdn
and then it goes to a bad link page, which has a search box.
Sandradodd.com/search works too, but "awerlkj" is easier to type than
"search" is.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to get what deschooling *is*, and so does the balance
link. And I like, but can't find, the one that talks about
choosing to go to school, on one's own terms.-=-
http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice
When I want to find a link and I'm already in my site, I just add
garbage to the end of the link like a;spoiwer.aksdn
and then it goes to a bad link page, which has a search box.
Sandradodd.com/search works too, but "awerlkj" is easier to type than
"search" is.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I really like that idea for unschool vs. Unschool. Be great if that
could
become known to those in the know too. A good way to easily understand
the
differences when emailing and such. -=-
I anticipate the detractors might say "cult" or "religion," or might
just capitalize theirs and then we'll say "you can't capitalize
unschooling," and it would be something to argue about. Something
else to argue about, I mean.
The argument will end, I've been told, when radical unschoolers accept
that anyone who says she's unschooling should have her words taken at
face value, and we shouldn't judge each other and we should all just
get along and work together for the good of all homeschoolers.
I remember a kid in 7th grade telling me she would like me if I would
lie.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
could
become known to those in the know too. A good way to easily understand
the
differences when emailing and such. -=-
I anticipate the detractors might say "cult" or "religion," or might
just capitalize theirs and then we'll say "you can't capitalize
unschooling," and it would be something to argue about. Something
else to argue about, I mean.
The argument will end, I've been told, when radical unschoolers accept
that anyone who says she's unschooling should have her words taken at
face value, and we shouldn't judge each other and we should all just
get along and work together for the good of all homeschoolers.
I remember a kid in 7th grade telling me she would like me if I would
lie.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dina
> I anticipate the detractors might say "cult" or "religion," or mightYou're probably right about this. Happens within the d/Deaf culture all the time. "She's not really Deaf, she's Hard of Hearing" or "he's Deaf but his parents were deaf". A lot of infighting about the terms and usage there too.
> just capitalize theirs and then we'll say "you can't capitalize
> unschooling," and it would be something to argue about. Something
> else to argue about, I mean.
Dina
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-I really like that idea for unschool vs. Unschool. Be great if that
> could
> become known to those in the know too. A good way to easily understand
> the
> differences when emailing and such. -=-
>
> I anticipate the detractors might say "cult" or "religion," or might
> just capitalize theirs and then we'll say "you can't capitalize
> unschooling," and it would be something to argue about. Something
> else to argue about, I mean.
>
> The argument will end, I've been told, when radical unschoolers accept
> that anyone who says she's unschooling should have her words taken at
> face value, and we shouldn't judge each other and we should all just
> get along and work together for the good of all homeschoolers.
>
> I remember a kid in 7th grade telling me she would like me if I would
> lie.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Jenny C
> The argument will end, I've been told, when radical unschoolers acceptThe proof is in the living! I will keeping on living the life that I'm
> that anyone who says she's unschooling should have her words taken at
> face value, and we shouldn't judge each other and we should all just
> get along and work together for the good of all homeschoolers.
>
living, because I KNOW it works, I SEE it. I don't doubt it at all!
Other people will have to come to their own epiphany. I really like
that word for KNOWing unschooling. I have little epiphanies all the
time and on occasion a big one.
Some people will be happy to not have all the pieces to the puzzle, to
live where they are, in their own little comfort zone of the knowledge
that they have, completely content there. For me, with something so
cool and life changing as unschooling, I want more and more and more. I
want to know all there is to know and learn better and better ways of
living peacefully with my kids. I've ruffled feathers because of my
unbending stance on it. Everyone is free to live their life how they
want to, but I don't have to agree and get along!
The only people who's judgement I truly care about are my immediate
family, they are the ones I have to live with and who's lives are
directly impacted by what I do. The beauty is, that I've met some
pretty amazing people because of it!
Sandra Dodd
-=-The proof is in the living! I will keeping on living the life that
I'm
living, because I KNOW it works, I SEE it. I don't doubt it at all!
Other people will have to come to their own epiphany. I really like
that word for KNOWing unschooling. I have little epiphanies all the
time and on occasion a big one.
Some people will be happy to not have all the pieces to the puzzle, to
live where they are, in their own little comfort zone of the knowledge
that they have, completely content there. For me, with something so
cool and life changing as unschooling, I want more and more and more. I
want to know all there is to know and learn better and better ways of
living peacefully with my kids. I've ruffled feathers because of my
unbending stance on it. Everyone is free to live their life how they
want to, but I don't have to agree and get along!
The only people who's judgement I truly care about are my immediate
family, they are the ones I have to live with and who's lives are
directly impacted by what I do. The beauty is, that I've met some
pretty amazing people because of it!-=-
Sounds like religion to me. But I suppose it can't be helped, because
in that inspirational life-transforming way, it does have something to
do with such epiphanal business sometimes.
I was halfway through reading it (the first comment is mine, but I
mean halfway through the other part when I thought to myself this:
"THIS IS GREAT! Who wrote this?"
Jenny Cyphers. No wonder I made a page about her. She's all
inspired and inspiring.
So I quoted that on a page about confidence, and about how confidence
can seem like arrogance.
http://sandradodd.com/confidence
and I linked it from
http://sandradodd.com/jennycyphers
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm
living, because I KNOW it works, I SEE it. I don't doubt it at all!
Other people will have to come to their own epiphany. I really like
that word for KNOWing unschooling. I have little epiphanies all the
time and on occasion a big one.
Some people will be happy to not have all the pieces to the puzzle, to
live where they are, in their own little comfort zone of the knowledge
that they have, completely content there. For me, with something so
cool and life changing as unschooling, I want more and more and more. I
want to know all there is to know and learn better and better ways of
living peacefully with my kids. I've ruffled feathers because of my
unbending stance on it. Everyone is free to live their life how they
want to, but I don't have to agree and get along!
The only people who's judgement I truly care about are my immediate
family, they are the ones I have to live with and who's lives are
directly impacted by what I do. The beauty is, that I've met some
pretty amazing people because of it!-=-
Sounds like religion to me. But I suppose it can't be helped, because
in that inspirational life-transforming way, it does have something to
do with such epiphanal business sometimes.
I was halfway through reading it (the first comment is mine, but I
mean halfway through the other part when I thought to myself this:
"THIS IS GREAT! Who wrote this?"
Jenny Cyphers. No wonder I made a page about her. She's all
inspired and inspiring.
So I quoted that on a page about confidence, and about how confidence
can seem like arrogance.
http://sandradodd.com/confidence
and I linked it from
http://sandradodd.com/jennycyphers
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
It is amazing that the epiphanies seem to come so frequently in this life. The other day I was baking a cake and David got back from the grocery store and had to deal with the leaking coolant on the car and needed help putting the groceries away. I was up to my elbows in batter and asked Simon and Linnaea if they could help. They both came in and put all the groceries away and went back to what they were doing. It was so sweet, so not coercive, so not eye-rolling. Just this generous gift of service. It came with an epiphany, an underscoring of these unschooling side effects that I see and read about from other people.
As you say, the proof is in the living! The rightness, the evidence, the closeness, the joy, those are all found in this life. You can read about them, but to experience them you have to get down on your hands and knees and play and hang out and tell stories and cuddle and talk and share and be willing to listen and to apologize and to work to make it better. And if you can do that without any other intention that enjoying being with them, without any alterior motives, it plays out in ways that nothing else that I've ever seen does.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Jenny C <jenstarc4@...>
The proof is in the living! I will keeping on living the life that I'm
living, because I KNOW it works, I SEE it. I don't doubt it at all!
Other people will have to come to their own epiphany. I really like
that word for KNOWing unschooling. I have little epiphanies all the
time and on occasion a big one.
Some people will be happy to not have all the pieces to the puzzle, to
live where they are, in their own little comfort zone of the knowledge
that they have, completely content there. For me, with something so
cool and life changing as unschooling, I want more and more and more. I
want to know all there is to know and learn better and better ways of
living peacefully with my kids. I've ruffled feathers because of my
unbending stance on it. Everyone is free to live their life how they
want to, but I don't have to agree and get along!
The only people who's judgement I truly care about are my immediate
family, they are the ones I have to live with and who's lives are
directly impacted by what I do. The beauty is, that I've met some
pretty amazing people because of it!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
As you say, the proof is in the living! The rightness, the evidence, the closeness, the joy, those are all found in this life. You can read about them, but to experience them you have to get down on your hands and knees and play and hang out and tell stories and cuddle and talk and share and be willing to listen and to apologize and to work to make it better. And if you can do that without any other intention that enjoying being with them, without any alterior motives, it plays out in ways that nothing else that I've ever seen does.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Jenny C <jenstarc4@...>
The proof is in the living! I will keeping on living the life that I'm
living, because I KNOW it works, I SEE it. I don't doubt it at all!
Other people will have to come to their own epiphany. I really like
that word for KNOWing unschooling. I have little epiphanies all the
time and on occasion a big one.
Some people will be happy to not have all the pieces to the puzzle, to
live where they are, in their own little comfort zone of the knowledge
that they have, completely content there. For me, with something so
cool and life changing as unschooling, I want more and more and more. I
want to know all there is to know and learn better and better ways of
living peacefully with my kids. I've ruffled feathers because of my
unbending stance on it. Everyone is free to live their life how they
want to, but I don't have to agree and get along!
The only people who's judgement I truly care about are my immediate
family, they are the ones I have to live with and who's lives are
directly impacted by what I do. The beauty is, that I've met some
pretty amazing people because of it!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
> -=-The proof is in the living! I will keeping on living the life thatIs it the word "epiphany?" In religion that word speaks to beliefs,
> I'm
> living, because I KNOW it works, I SEE it. I don't doubt it at all!
> Other people will have to come to their own epiphany. <huge big
> snip.. sorry! I loved the whole thing> -=-
>
> >>>> Sounds like religion to me. But I suppose it can't be helped,
> because
> in that inspirational life-transforming way, it does have something to
> do with such epiphanal business sometimes. <<<<
miracles and magical transformation. In the absence of religion it
more closely speaks to thought, discovery and change. Both can contain
overtones of gratitude which often translate as awe, reverence and
worshipfulness (or love). I laughed when I put in the word
"worshipfulness" there because I heard behind it a little chorus of
"we're not worthy" from Wayne's World, which we watched last night.
In both cases it's possible to look at unschooling (and anything else)
with the intent of "worship" or gratitude, and not be able to see it or
believe it wherever one isn't living it. And what happens is a wish to
live somewhere we don't... almost like nostalgia, except for never
having been there or experienced it. Armchair unschooling.
I think it's an easy trap to hear about unschooling and to be fully
onboard intellectually ... yet never really live it. Honestly my
thoughts about unschooling never waver, but I could easily never do any
of what I think about it. Just continue to agree with it, argue for
it, and leave it at that for far far too long.
I personally feel that's THE biggest piece of deschooling I do on a
daily basis: to take the emphasis off only reading, reporting, speaking
about it --all that stuff that's highly rated in school-- and put my
attention, my senses and my hands toward experiencing, knowing and
learning it.
In the interest of not missing the chance to more fully BE with our
children, I thought I would put in another plug for this link:
http://sandradodd.com/being/ That's my big page to go to these days.
It's on my fridge along with a great thing from Pam on "What do
Unschoolers DO?" which was inspired by a question posed by none other
than Jenny Cyphers. :D
~Katherine
JoyErin
Jenny C is definitely pretty amazing herself and very inspiring too. Hard
to pick out favorite bits from such
a great post by but I think for me it might have to be 'other people will
have to come to their own epiphanies.
Really spoke to me when I read that. Maybe here's why...
Yesterday, ds 14 now, was feeling very strongly about people 'not being able
to see outside the box'. I told him I
used to feel a lot like that too about some things with people and would get
so frustrated sometimes. I explained
how I went from getting so frustrated to sadness for those people, thanks to
his dad, and now I'm more in the
acceptance part. Having a close relative that struggles so unbelievably
hard, it feels to me, with any new thought or
idea has probably been a large part of my journey to this point.
I think maybe I'm a visual person because I explained it similar to this...
We pictured a certain person we know
all tightly but very comfortably and happily boxed up. They are totally in
their comfortable zone and for some reason,
maybe past negative experiences they get very *scared* when that box starts
to move or expand even a little bit.
Some of us have learned what a good thing this can be and even look forward
to it happening again but not them.
They just can't come to understand how much happier and better things are
outside of such a tight confining
place they now live in.
I just thought this from reading this morning... maybe some people need to
be dumped out of the box to get it,
some can only handle the tiniest little seeds of thought at a time and some
no matter what are never going to
accept that the sunshine and happiness is so much more incredible outside of
their little boxes.
Joy
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 2:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Cultural Unschooler
-=-The proof is in the living! I will keeping on living the life that
I'm
living, because I KNOW it works, I SEE it. I don't doubt it at all!
Other people will have to come to their own epiphany. I really like
that word for KNOWing unschooling. I have little epiphanies all the
time and on occasion a big one.
Some people will be happy to not have all the pieces to the puzzle, to
live where they are, in their own little comfort zone of the knowledge
that they have, completely content there. For me, with something so
cool and life changing as unschooling, I want more and more and more. I
want to know all there is to know and learn better and better ways of
living peacefully with my kids. I've ruffled feathers because of my
unbending stance on it. Everyone is free to live their life how they
want to, but I don't have to agree and get along!
The only people who's judgement I truly care about are my immediate
family, they are the ones I have to live with and who's lives are
directly impacted by what I do. The beauty is, that I've met some
pretty amazing people because of it!-=-
Sounds like religion to me. But I suppose it can't be helped, because
in that inspirational life-transforming way, it does have something to
do with such epiphanal business sometimes.
I was halfway through reading it (the first comment is mine, but I
mean halfway through the other part when I thought to myself this:
"THIS IS GREAT! Who wrote this?"
Jenny Cyphers. No wonder I made a page about her. She's all
inspired and inspiring.
So I quoted that on a page about confidence, and about how confidence
can seem like arrogance.
http://sandradodd. <http://sandradodd.com/confidence> com/confidence
and I linked it from
http://sandradodd. <http://sandradodd.com/jennycyphers> com/jennycyphers
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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08:29:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to pick out favorite bits from such
a great post by but I think for me it might have to be 'other people will
have to come to their own epiphanies.
Really spoke to me when I read that. Maybe here's why...
Yesterday, ds 14 now, was feeling very strongly about people 'not being able
to see outside the box'. I told him I
used to feel a lot like that too about some things with people and would get
so frustrated sometimes. I explained
how I went from getting so frustrated to sadness for those people, thanks to
his dad, and now I'm more in the
acceptance part. Having a close relative that struggles so unbelievably
hard, it feels to me, with any new thought or
idea has probably been a large part of my journey to this point.
I think maybe I'm a visual person because I explained it similar to this...
We pictured a certain person we know
all tightly but very comfortably and happily boxed up. They are totally in
their comfortable zone and for some reason,
maybe past negative experiences they get very *scared* when that box starts
to move or expand even a little bit.
Some of us have learned what a good thing this can be and even look forward
to it happening again but not them.
They just can't come to understand how much happier and better things are
outside of such a tight confining
place they now live in.
I just thought this from reading this morning... maybe some people need to
be dumped out of the box to get it,
some can only handle the tiniest little seeds of thought at a time and some
no matter what are never going to
accept that the sunshine and happiness is so much more incredible outside of
their little boxes.
Joy
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 2:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Cultural Unschooler
-=-The proof is in the living! I will keeping on living the life that
I'm
living, because I KNOW it works, I SEE it. I don't doubt it at all!
Other people will have to come to their own epiphany. I really like
that word for KNOWing unschooling. I have little epiphanies all the
time and on occasion a big one.
Some people will be happy to not have all the pieces to the puzzle, to
live where they are, in their own little comfort zone of the knowledge
that they have, completely content there. For me, with something so
cool and life changing as unschooling, I want more and more and more. I
want to know all there is to know and learn better and better ways of
living peacefully with my kids. I've ruffled feathers because of my
unbending stance on it. Everyone is free to live their life how they
want to, but I don't have to agree and get along!
The only people who's judgement I truly care about are my immediate
family, they are the ones I have to live with and who's lives are
directly impacted by what I do. The beauty is, that I've met some
pretty amazing people because of it!-=-
Sounds like religion to me. But I suppose it can't be helped, because
in that inspirational life-transforming way, it does have something to
do with such epiphanal business sometimes.
I was halfway through reading it (the first comment is mine, but I
mean halfway through the other part when I thought to myself this:
"THIS IS GREAT! Who wrote this?"
Jenny Cyphers. No wonder I made a page about her. She's all
inspired and inspiring.
So I quoted that on a page about confidence, and about how confidence
can seem like arrogance.
http://sandradodd. <http://sandradodd.com/confidence> com/confidence
and I linked it from
http://sandradodd. <http://sandradodd.com/jennycyphers> com/jennycyphers
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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08:29:00
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diana jenner
When someone throws the *religion* term around like a bad thing, I remember
the word comes from the same root as ligament - to bind together. I'm okay
being part of "binding together" with my peers in the process of "binding
together" the team that is my family :D
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
the word comes from the same root as ligament - to bind together. I'm okay
being part of "binding together" with my peers in the process of "binding
together" the team that is my family :D
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 4:23 AM, <katherand@...> wrote:
> > -=-The proof is in the living! I will keeping on living the life that
>
> > I'm
> > living, because I KNOW it works, I SEE it. I don't doubt it at all!
> > Other people will have to come to their own epiphany. <huge big
> > snip.. sorry! I loved the whole thing> -=-
> >
> > >>>> Sounds like religion to me. But I suppose it can't be helped,
> > because
> > in that inspirational life-transforming way, it does have something to
> > do with such epiphanal business sometimes. <<<<
>
> Is it the word "epiphany?" In religion that word speaks to beliefs,
> miracles and magical transformation. In the absence of religion it
> more closely speaks to thought, discovery and change. Both can contain
> overtones of gratitude which often translate as awe, reverence and
> worshipfulness (or love). I laughed when I put in the word
> "worshipfulness" there because I heard behind it a little chorus of
> "we're not worthy" from Wayne's World, which we watched last night.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>>>> When someone throws the *religion* term around like a bad thing, Iremember
the word comes from the same root as ligament - to bind together. I'm
okay
being part of "binding together" with my peers in the process of
"binding
together" the team that is my family :D <<<<
Not that I said bad. When comparing things, our dualistic culture
gives things an either/or flavor and pits them against each other. I
try hard to be inclusive when making comparison because everything is
connected somehow somewhere, but sometimes the wordiness of it all has
the language grinding the meaning to bits.
I'm just starting to live with the fact that I can't include everything
I want to say in one post. Even when it's loooonnnng. It's just the
way it is.
~Katherine
Sandra Dodd
-=-I just thought this from reading this morning... maybe some people
need to be dumped out of the box to get it, some can only handle the
tiniest little seeds of thought at a time and some no matter what are
never going to accept that the sunshine and happiness is so much more
incredible outside of their little boxes. -=-
Sometimes people are dumped out of their boxes and it destroys them.
Death, divorce, unemployment, unpreparedness for change... those can
ruin people, mentally and emotionally.
Some people are athletic and strong and brave, and others would rather
sit in the shade and watch, or stay home and avoid watching. Should
they all have those choices?
Some people are socially strong and brave and others think the best
live that could come to them would be a steady, easy job, a little
rented dwelling space to come home to, a car that runs, a TV that
works, and enough money to buy food that's easily prepared and cleaned
up after. For reasons we couldn't understand and they might not
understand, that, for them, is heaven.
If people around them shame and harangue them and say "You shouldn't
be happy there. You could have a better job. You could learn to cook
gourmet meals! You should have hobbies. You should get your nose out
of that book and go outside and play... Now the difference is that
the world in which they were content has come to look bad, and wrong.
If someone comes here and says "I want help figuring out how to
unschool," I have some ideas about what she might need, and the more
she tells us about the circumstances and personalities involved, the
more ideas I'll have! She's expressed a need/desire.
If someone's happy and doesn't come here, I don't know what they
need. Maybe they need nothing more than what they have, and what
could be better than that, if they're not hurting anything or anyone?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
need to be dumped out of the box to get it, some can only handle the
tiniest little seeds of thought at a time and some no matter what are
never going to accept that the sunshine and happiness is so much more
incredible outside of their little boxes. -=-
Sometimes people are dumped out of their boxes and it destroys them.
Death, divorce, unemployment, unpreparedness for change... those can
ruin people, mentally and emotionally.
Some people are athletic and strong and brave, and others would rather
sit in the shade and watch, or stay home and avoid watching. Should
they all have those choices?
Some people are socially strong and brave and others think the best
live that could come to them would be a steady, easy job, a little
rented dwelling space to come home to, a car that runs, a TV that
works, and enough money to buy food that's easily prepared and cleaned
up after. For reasons we couldn't understand and they might not
understand, that, for them, is heaven.
If people around them shame and harangue them and say "You shouldn't
be happy there. You could have a better job. You could learn to cook
gourmet meals! You should have hobbies. You should get your nose out
of that book and go outside and play... Now the difference is that
the world in which they were content has come to look bad, and wrong.
If someone comes here and says "I want help figuring out how to
unschool," I have some ideas about what she might need, and the more
she tells us about the circumstances and personalities involved, the
more ideas I'll have! She's expressed a need/desire.
If someone's happy and doesn't come here, I don't know what they
need. Maybe they need nothing more than what they have, and what
could be better than that, if they're not hurting anything or anyone?
Sandra
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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Sandra how funny that Brian and I just had a talk about something like that.
We have a friend farmer that has over 100 acres of unbelievable land right in the best part of Rochester MN.
He lives with his twin brother who is mentally disable and they are both in their early 60's.
He has other brothers and sisters around and they are very wealthy.
He is a very handsome man and must have been even more handsome years ago.
The house in the farm has become inhabitable many years ago. They just let it go.
They now live in what it used to be the pig house with a wood stove.
They have chosen to live very very frugal. They have the bare necessities and that is how they like it.
They are sitting in a gold mine but despise spending money on stuff .
$10 for him is a LOT.
This man reads the newspaper everyday and pretty much knows what is going on around. He is a smart man.
They do not want anything different. Nothing anyone does or say can change them.
Than I compared that to my sister. A year ago she was glad to send her son to kindergarten and looking forward to sending him to first grade all day.
They sometimes spanked, they did time outs and she screamed a lot.
He is one of those super intense, non stop, physical and very intelligent but challenging child.
I had many , many talks with her and she would agree with all I was saying but was happy to keep doing what she was doing.
Fast forward today and they pulled him out of school less than two months into 1st Grade and she has tremendously changed. She now sees all the damage school was doing to him and is trying hard to change how she parents him ( a big struggle for her).
She was content to do what she was doing and nothing I said before changed her mind until she decided/saw that it was not the best for her son. Now she sees it. Now she listens to me ( and is has read your book).
All this to say that no one cannot change someone that does not want to change.
No one can really make one see things different if they are not open to it.
Of course it helped that she knew there were options because of me but really she changed because she was ready and willing.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We have a friend farmer that has over 100 acres of unbelievable land right in the best part of Rochester MN.
He lives with his twin brother who is mentally disable and they are both in their early 60's.
He has other brothers and sisters around and they are very wealthy.
He is a very handsome man and must have been even more handsome years ago.
The house in the farm has become inhabitable many years ago. They just let it go.
They now live in what it used to be the pig house with a wood stove.
They have chosen to live very very frugal. They have the bare necessities and that is how they like it.
They are sitting in a gold mine but despise spending money on stuff .
$10 for him is a LOT.
This man reads the newspaper everyday and pretty much knows what is going on around. He is a smart man.
They do not want anything different. Nothing anyone does or say can change them.
Than I compared that to my sister. A year ago she was glad to send her son to kindergarten and looking forward to sending him to first grade all day.
They sometimes spanked, they did time outs and she screamed a lot.
He is one of those super intense, non stop, physical and very intelligent but challenging child.
I had many , many talks with her and she would agree with all I was saying but was happy to keep doing what she was doing.
Fast forward today and they pulled him out of school less than two months into 1st Grade and she has tremendously changed. She now sees all the damage school was doing to him and is trying hard to change how she parents him ( a big struggle for her).
She was content to do what she was doing and nothing I said before changed her mind until she decided/saw that it was not the best for her son. Now she sees it. Now she listens to me ( and is has read your book).
All this to say that no one cannot change someone that does not want to change.
No one can really make one see things different if they are not open to it.
Of course it helped that she knew there were options because of me but really she changed because she was ready and willing.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
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Pam Sorooshian
On 4/26/2009 4:23 AM, katherand@... wrote:
directly to someone: "Get off the computer right now and go do something
with your kids."
The above is a really good explanation of why we say that. Sometimes we
can tell that someone is in that place - caught up in their own
intellectual analysis - arguing, debating, or even just talking talking
talking all "about" unschooling -- when what they really need is more
experience.
-pam
> I personally feel that's THE biggest piece of deschooling I do on aEvery once in a while I post, or Sandra or Joyce or someone else,
> daily basis: to take the emphasis off only reading, reporting, speaking
> about it --all that stuff that's highly rated in school-- and put my
> attention, my senses and my hands toward experiencing, knowing and
> learning it.
>
directly to someone: "Get off the computer right now and go do something
with your kids."
The above is a really good explanation of why we say that. Sometimes we
can tell that someone is in that place - caught up in their own
intellectual analysis - arguing, debating, or even just talking talking
talking all "about" unschooling -- when what they really need is more
experience.
-pam
Jenny C
>>> They both came in and put all the groceries away and went back towhat they were doing. It was so sweet, so not coercive, so not
eye-rolling. Just this generous gift of service. It came with an
epiphany, an underscoring of these unschooling side effects that I see
and read about from other people.>>>
Yesterday, I was trying to remember when it was that Chamille started
bringing groceries in. There was a time when she didn't. We'd get home
from shopping and she'd hop out of the car and run into the house with
or without even grabbing her own things, not even thinking about
bringing in groceries or helping, or opening or closing doors.
It wasn't that she was being mean or disrespectful, she just didn't even
think about it, her mind was on something else, what she was going to do
when she got home, what or who she was going to play with. Sometimes,
I'd ask and then she would grab a bag on her way up to the door and drop
it off there, and sometimes I never got a chance, she'd be gone already.
I would carry everything in, even her stuff. It never seemed like a big
deal to me. Now however, it is rare that I don't get help, and in fact
sometimes she does more carrying and putting away than I do, just
because, and sometimes she'll even give her little sister a ride from
the car to the front door. The sheer fact that she LIKES to go grocery
shopping with me and in fact gets upset when I go without her, is
something all in and of itself! I treasure those shopping trips!
For the life of me, I can't remember when this transition happened! But
there it is, somewhere between the age of 10 and 15, she became very
helpful to me!
Jenny C
>something
> Every once in a while I post, or Sandra or Joyce or someone else,
> directly to someone: "Get off the computer right now and go do
> with your kids."we
>
> The above is a really good explanation of why we say that. Sometimes
> can tell that someone is in that place - caught up in their owntalking
> intellectual analysis - arguing, debating, or even just talking
> talking all "about" unschooling -- when what they really need is moreYes, I leave my browsers open and come to and fro throughout the day.
> experience.
>
If one of my kids is wanting me or needing me, I go and do that, since
that's what it's all about! I can always come back to the computer, it
will still be here. And, some days, I never make it back to the
computer, I'm off living life with my kids and my family.
My morning routine is to read email and drink my coffee, and my kids are
generally really cool about that and do their own morning routines, if
they are even awake at all! It helps to get up before them these days,
because I can read and write uninterupted.
Deb Lewis
***Sounds like religion to me. But I suppose it can't be helped, because
in that inspirational life-transforming way, it does have something to
do with such epiphanal business sometimes.***
I don't have epiphanies. Nothing comes to me suddenly and nothing seems like a miracle. That probably has something to do with being dull witted.<g> So, no epiphanies, but I get little ideas that hang on and then grow... or not. <g> And I get excited about discovery.
***...in that inspirational life-transforming way, it does have something to
do with such epiphanal business sometimes.*
Schools have made discovery such a step by step exercise in drudgery people don't remember that discovery used to be something thrilling and life changing.
I'm glad some people have sudden comprehension about life changing things when they see their kid in a particular moment. That's quick and efficient! <g> And I know "epiphany" is a prettier, a feelier word. <g>
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
in that inspirational life-transforming way, it does have something to
do with such epiphanal business sometimes.***
I don't have epiphanies. Nothing comes to me suddenly and nothing seems like a miracle. That probably has something to do with being dull witted.<g> So, no epiphanies, but I get little ideas that hang on and then grow... or not. <g> And I get excited about discovery.
***...in that inspirational life-transforming way, it does have something to
do with such epiphanal business sometimes.*
Schools have made discovery such a step by step exercise in drudgery people don't remember that discovery used to be something thrilling and life changing.
I'm glad some people have sudden comprehension about life changing things when they see their kid in a particular moment. That's quick and efficient! <g> And I know "epiphany" is a prettier, a feelier word. <g>
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]