Balance
jennifercroce37
How do you balance the needs and wants of your child with your own? For example, my 2 1/2 year old daughter wanted me to sit down and do puzzles with her. I sat down for a few minutes with her to do them but I had to take care of other children (I run a daycare)and to be honest I really didn't feel like sitting with her at that moment. She is able to do the puzzles on her own so it wasn't like she needed my help. Of course when I didn't give her the attention she wanted she had a tantrum which then aggravated me and the conflict began. So my question is how do you cope when you really don't want to do something with your child or you aren't able to because you have other responsibilities that need your attention?
Thanks,
Jen
Thanks,
Jen
Sandra Dodd
-=How do you balance the needs and wants of your child with your own? -
=-
http://sandradodd.com/howto
-=- I sat down for a few minutes with her to do them but I had to take
care of other children (I run a daycare)and to be honest I really
didn't feel like sitting with her at that moment. -=-
Be very careful about using "had to" on this list. <g>
http://sandradodd.com/haveto
-=-She is able to do the puzzles on her own so it wasn't like she
needed my help. -=-
This argument is used by a badillion parents to stop reading to their
children as soon as the child can sound out a few words. "She can
read now, she doesn't need me to read to her."
-=-Of course when I didn't give her the attention she wanted she had a
tantrum which then aggravated me and the conflict began.-=-
The conflict began before you were aggravated. You were aggravated
that she wanted her mother?
-=-So my question is how do you cope when you really don't want to do
something with your child or you aren't able to because you have other
responsibilities that need your attention?-=-
Learn to want to do things, or find someone else to do things with or
for your child.
Most extreme case: give your child up for adoption. At least
consider it. Because until people have made a choice, they're not
making choices. If you choose NOT to give your child up for
adoption, you might see more clearly the obligations you have to a two
year old baby.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
=-
http://sandradodd.com/howto
-=- I sat down for a few minutes with her to do them but I had to take
care of other children (I run a daycare)and to be honest I really
didn't feel like sitting with her at that moment. -=-
Be very careful about using "had to" on this list. <g>
http://sandradodd.com/haveto
-=-She is able to do the puzzles on her own so it wasn't like she
needed my help. -=-
This argument is used by a badillion parents to stop reading to their
children as soon as the child can sound out a few words. "She can
read now, she doesn't need me to read to her."
-=-Of course when I didn't give her the attention she wanted she had a
tantrum which then aggravated me and the conflict began.-=-
The conflict began before you were aggravated. You were aggravated
that she wanted her mother?
-=-So my question is how do you cope when you really don't want to do
something with your child or you aren't able to because you have other
responsibilities that need your attention?-=-
Learn to want to do things, or find someone else to do things with or
for your child.
Most extreme case: give your child up for adoption. At least
consider it. Because until people have made a choice, they're not
making choices. If you choose NOT to give your child up for
adoption, you might see more clearly the obligations you have to a two
year old baby.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Verna
--- In [email protected], "jennifercroce37" <jennifercroce37@...> wrote:
>This evening my 6 year old asked me if I would help him set up a domino run. I was making dinner and told him yes, but could he wait till after dinner. After dinner he wanted me to make some cookies and he wanted to help, so we did that. Then I cleaned up while he played with his siblings. Then he wanted to read me a book. By this time I was tired and wanted to get in bed and read my email and watch a movie. He on the other hand asked again about the dominoes. Now, he is 6 and not 2 but I asked him nicely if he would not mind if we waited till morning because I was very tired. He accepted this. Today, I have built with legos with him, read to him, played Mario and Sonic at the Olympics and Rock Band, played house etc... Therefore he was much more accepting of my request to wait till tomorrow than if we had done little together. I have found even when my kids were 2, if I honestly gave the kids the time/attention they needed from me, then they were more accepting of giving me time to myself.
> How do you balance the needs and wants of your child with your own? For example, my 2 1/2 year old daughter wanted me to sit down and do puzzles with her. I sat down for a few minutes with her to do them but I had to take care of other children (I run a daycare)and to be honest I really didn't feel like sitting with her at that moment. She is able to do the puzzles on her own so it wasn't like she needed my help. Of course when I didn't give her the attention she wanted she had a tantrum which then aggravated me and the conflict began. So my question is how do you cope when you really don't want to do something with your child or you aren't able to because you have other responsibilities that need your attention?
>
> Thanks,
> Jen
Jennifer Croce
--- On Sat, 4/4/09, Verna <lalow@...> wrote:
>I have found even when my kids were 2, if I honestly gave the kids the time/attention they needed from me, then they were more accepting of giving me time to myself.<
I think that is my problem, I have very little time for myself. I am more or less a single parent right now due to my husband's work schedule (he is a CPA and it is tax season). I run my home daycare and am the primary person responsible for all the domestic and child related duties. I have been better about making time for myself (I run and am training for a 1/2 marathon in 2010 and get monthly massages) but I feel it really isn't enought. I do love and enjoy being with my children which is why I am learning about unschooling.
Thanks,
Jen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
space_and_freedom
--- In [email protected], "jennifercroce37" <jennifercroce37@...> wrote:
She probably doesn't like sharing you with other kids.
Do you have a tendency to put her needs/desires on the back burner because you feel obligated to the parents of the other kids in your care? (seeing as they are paying for a service?)
I don't know how I'd be able to meet the needs of a 2 1/2 year old if I was running a daycare. (2 1/2 is very very young, if you have babies in your daycare you may be seeing your daughter as older and expecting too much from her.)
This may not be an issue of balance, this may be an issue of being pulled in too may directions to do your best for your daughter.
Good luck,
Jen H (DD8, DD6, DS3)
>She wasn't asking because she needed help, she was asking because she wanted your company. She wanted her Mommy.
> How do you balance the needs and wants of your child with your own?
> For example, my 2 1/2 year old daughter wanted me to sit down and do
> puzzles with her. I sat down for a few minutes with her to do them
> but I had to take care of other children (I run a daycare)and to be
> honest I really didn't feel like sitting with her at that moment.
> She is able to do the puzzles on her own so it wasn't like she
> needed my help.
She probably doesn't like sharing you with other kids.
Do you have a tendency to put her needs/desires on the back burner because you feel obligated to the parents of the other kids in your care? (seeing as they are paying for a service?)
I don't know how I'd be able to meet the needs of a 2 1/2 year old if I was running a daycare. (2 1/2 is very very young, if you have babies in your daycare you may be seeing your daughter as older and expecting too much from her.)
This may not be an issue of balance, this may be an issue of being pulled in too may directions to do your best for your daughter.
Good luck,
Jen H (DD8, DD6, DS3)
Jennifer Croce
--- On Sat, 4/4/09, space_and_freedom <space_and_freedom@...> wrote:
>She probably doesn't like sharing you with other kids.<
I am sure she doesn't which I realize is normal. My girls get jealous of each other and fight for my attention. I do make sure I spend some one on one time with her during the day (I'll put the daycare kids down for nap and then spend time reading and nursing her before she naps. Some days, like today, she didn't nap and was with me instead). I spend time in the morning with her when she first wakes up and before she goes to bed (again nursing, cuddling and reading to her). I decided to open a home daycare so I could work and still be available for my girls (I run my daycare on the school schedule so I am done work at 4pm, I don't work on Wednesday and am closed whenever the schools are so I have a lot of time off). Even though it isn't perfect, I feel it is a lot better than working outside the home and having my girls in daycare or before/after school care. No situation is perfect and I am doing the best I can.
I believe the girls learn a lot from the daycare and it provides peer interaction for my younger daughter.
>She wasn't asking because she needed help, she was asking because she wanted your company. She wanted her Mommy.<
I realize she didn't really need help but just wanted my attention. Between my other obligations and my personal feelings at the moment I just wasn't able to give it to her. I did spend some time with her it just wasn't as long as she wanted.
>This may not be an issue of balance, this may be an issue of being pulled in too may directions to do your best for your daughter.<
I'll admit that I do feel stretched to the limit at times, but I think we all do at some point or another. It is a balancing act of meeting my business obligations, personal obligations and my children's needs. I specifically designed my business so I could be with my children. I feel like they have benefited from me doing this even though it means I can't always give them the time and attention they want. I realize I made the choice to open my daycare and that choice has both positive and negative outcomes. I think the positives outweigh the negatives most of the time.
Jen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kelly_sturman
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
I *still* enjoy being read to, tho' I do a lot of reading on my own,
and I am nearly 40. I don't get read to much though, b/c I am usually
the reader; I am the favored reader. I read to my husband and my kids at
bedtime. Everybody cuddled up in our bed, and my DH enjoys it every bit
as the kids. Everybody takes turns picking what will be read next, so it might
be _Bartimaeus_ or Shakespeare or _A Hole is To Dig_, or _Goodnight Moon_
or Nancy Drew, but I haven't yet met somebody who has grown to old to enjoy
being read to. It is so nurturing, the rhythm of the words washing over one while
one cuddles up with one's beloveds. Which is better, staying awake to hear the
end? Or falling asleep to the comforting rhythm of a loved one's voice?
You really can't lose, either way!
I have the luxury of not having an "outside" job (but the challenge of
meeting the needs of five medically specially needy kids, which is pretty
much a full time job in itself), but I keep coming back to this: I intend
to enjoy these amazing people's company for as long as they are willing
to include me in their lives. And if I am respectful, they may choose to
include me for longer, and more often.
For me finding balance is making peace with what is right now.
Right now might mean everybody has a stomach virus; that's bad, right?
No, that's good. That's a physical reminder to slow down, hunker down,
cuddle up, make homemade ginger ale--sooooo much better for sick tummies
than the store bought stuff (which contains no ginger at all!)--and just give
in to what is.
Or right now might be a "car day" where Mom's taxi is busy moving
children to one activity to another. I could choose to be annoyed b/c
I'd prefer a slower lifestyle. But I can also choose to be pleased to have
the time, in the car, to connect with the passengers. LOTS of good
talks happen in the car on the way to the things we choose to be
doing.
Kelly Sturman
>I LOVE THE POWER OF STORYTELLING AND THE POWER OF MYTH.
> This argument is used by a badillion parents to stop reading to their
> children as soon as the child can sound out a few words. "She can
> read now, she doesn't need me to read to her."
I *still* enjoy being read to, tho' I do a lot of reading on my own,
and I am nearly 40. I don't get read to much though, b/c I am usually
the reader; I am the favored reader. I read to my husband and my kids at
bedtime. Everybody cuddled up in our bed, and my DH enjoys it every bit
as the kids. Everybody takes turns picking what will be read next, so it might
be _Bartimaeus_ or Shakespeare or _A Hole is To Dig_, or _Goodnight Moon_
or Nancy Drew, but I haven't yet met somebody who has grown to old to enjoy
being read to. It is so nurturing, the rhythm of the words washing over one while
one cuddles up with one's beloveds. Which is better, staying awake to hear the
end? Or falling asleep to the comforting rhythm of a loved one's voice?
You really can't lose, either way!
I have the luxury of not having an "outside" job (but the challenge of
meeting the needs of five medically specially needy kids, which is pretty
much a full time job in itself), but I keep coming back to this: I intend
to enjoy these amazing people's company for as long as they are willing
to include me in their lives. And if I am respectful, they may choose to
include me for longer, and more often.
For me finding balance is making peace with what is right now.
Right now might mean everybody has a stomach virus; that's bad, right?
No, that's good. That's a physical reminder to slow down, hunker down,
cuddle up, make homemade ginger ale--sooooo much better for sick tummies
than the store bought stuff (which contains no ginger at all!)--and just give
in to what is.
Or right now might be a "car day" where Mom's taxi is busy moving
children to one activity to another. I could choose to be annoyed b/c
I'd prefer a slower lifestyle. But I can also choose to be pleased to have
the time, in the car, to connect with the passengers. LOTS of good
talks happen in the car on the way to the things we choose to be
doing.
Kelly Sturman
kelly_sturman
And this is why I love this list! This is why it helps me to grow!
This is the inverse statement I got from a doctor I had contacted
regarding potentially adopting a child that we did end up adopting.
"Doc," I said, "I fear this child has undiagnosed ____ and if we bring
it to the attention of the authorities, they will say she is too sick to
be adopted. But if we don't, the stress of the move from her
orphanage to our family could throw her into a life-threatening
crisis. So, how do we avoid that crisis?"
And doc, very matter-of-fact, replied, "You don't adopt her."
And that was that. She was right. We had choices. We could leave
her in a situation where her medical needs remained undiagnosed
and untreated, or we could bring her here, where she would get
good care, but the trip itself would be risky. We wanted to hear
we could make the trip without risk. But that was not an option.
We had to accept what is, and make a choice based on THAT.
Accept what is, and make a conscious, thoughtful choice based
on that. And then do it again. And then again.
YES! :-)
Kelly Sturman
This is the inverse statement I got from a doctor I had contacted
regarding potentially adopting a child that we did end up adopting.
"Doc," I said, "I fear this child has undiagnosed ____ and if we bring
it to the attention of the authorities, they will say she is too sick to
be adopted. But if we don't, the stress of the move from her
orphanage to our family could throw her into a life-threatening
crisis. So, how do we avoid that crisis?"
And doc, very matter-of-fact, replied, "You don't adopt her."
And that was that. She was right. We had choices. We could leave
her in a situation where her medical needs remained undiagnosed
and untreated, or we could bring her here, where she would get
good care, but the trip itself would be risky. We wanted to hear
we could make the trip without risk. But that was not an option.
We had to accept what is, and make a choice based on THAT.
Accept what is, and make a conscious, thoughtful choice based
on that. And then do it again. And then again.
YES! :-)
Kelly Sturman
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> Most extreme case: give your child up for adoption. At least
> consider it. Because until people have made a choice, they're not
> making choices. If you choose NOT to give your child up for
> adoption, you might see more clearly the obligations you have to a two
> year old baby.
>
> Sandra
Sandra Dodd
-=-I'll admit that I do feel stretched to the limit at times, but I
think we all do at some point or another. -=-
Sure, but then the priorities will help you decide what to do when you
feel stretched.
Just saying "we all do" seems to dismiss the fact that you have
decisions to make.
-=- I specifically designed my business so I could be with my
children. I feel like they have benefited from me doing this even
though it means I can't always give them the time and attention they
want.-=-
On this list, the advice you get will be about making unschooling work.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
think we all do at some point or another. -=-
Sure, but then the priorities will help you decide what to do when you
feel stretched.
Just saying "we all do" seems to dismiss the fact that you have
decisions to make.
-=- I specifically designed my business so I could be with my
children. I feel like they have benefited from me doing this even
though it means I can't always give them the time and attention they
want.-=-
On this list, the advice you get will be about making unschooling work.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn L. Coburn
It can be a really hard choice to decide to make do with less financially in
order to unschool. The choice to unschool is a choice to be actively present
and spend far, far more time with our own children than pretty much any
other parenting philosophy, more than you think will be needed - and to
continue to be present and spend far more time for longer than mainstream
philosophies would expect as our children age. My dd is 9 and she wants me
to play with her and talk to her and sit near to her for what is probably
close to 10-12 hours every day other than when she has playdates (and I am
usually nearby). She sleeps for 10, is awake for 16 (yes longer than 24 hour
days) but my point is the proportion of time is still huge.
Longtime unschoolers here with teens talk about the kind of time they are
spending with their teens, by the teens' invitation and desire. They talk
about young adults living away who evidently still consider regular and
meaningful contact with their parents as essential to their own happiness.
This is the investment we are making with our little ones, and our middle
ones.
Luckily Jayn and I have a lot of crossover interests. We do a lot together,
including creative work, and she is more willing now to spend time with her
father, and he does take her off for several hours at a time intermittently,
and I then write like crazy - which is what I "do" now - writing that is
definitely an investment in long term future prosperity.
I can put in earplugs and write on the other side of the room when she has
certain kids over for playdates (those that tend not to need help with
negotiations) but there are other kids when I choose to be much more
focussed and I continue to listen more actively.
<<<<< it provides peer interaction for my younger daughter.>>>>>
So would school.
All of Jayn's playmates and associates are in her life by her choice. They
are not coming in to her home because I have brought them here for reasons
of my own. Having a bunch of kids foisted on your child every day, who are
inescapable in her own home, is not the same as allowing her to choose her
playmates from a crowd at the local home schooling park day, for instance.
<<<< It is a balancing act of meeting my business obligations, personal
obligations and my children's needs.>>>>
There are other people unschooling and offering daycare in their home for
greater or fewer numbers of kids. I don't know how they do it. I'm being
really honest here. It seems to me that you are saying you want help finding
balance, but maybe what you are really looking for is support in partly
unschooling, because I don't know what really balancing a daycare and
unschooling would look like.
I really don't know how daycare operators can give their own children the
focus and attention that real, flourishing, magical, successful unschooling
seems to demand of me for my child when they are bringing any number of
other children in to their home and being asked to realize the expectations
of the other children's parents on a regular basis.
Positives and negatives change when held up to the light of unschooling.
Priorities change when examined through the lens of unschooling. It may be
that you will never see the full benefits of unschooling, or the full
amazing transcendent brilliance of natural learning moments while you are
choosing to run a daycare. It's a bit like the person on Sandra's site who
wrote that "unschooling didn't blossom until I stepped away from traditional
parenting."
I was a vegetarian for about 15 years. When I told people I was a vege,
almost invariably the first thing they would say is "I don't eat much meat."
I'd said it myself to my vege friends before making the change. It's wasn't
until I actually stopped eating meat that I realized just how much meat was
in my diet.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
I specifically designed my business so I could be with my children. I feel
like they have benefited from me doing this even though it means I can't
always give them the time and attention they want. I realize I made the
choice to open my daycare and that choice has both positive and negative
outcomes. I think the positives outweigh the negatives most of the time.
Jen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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06:19:00
order to unschool. The choice to unschool is a choice to be actively present
and spend far, far more time with our own children than pretty much any
other parenting philosophy, more than you think will be needed - and to
continue to be present and spend far more time for longer than mainstream
philosophies would expect as our children age. My dd is 9 and she wants me
to play with her and talk to her and sit near to her for what is probably
close to 10-12 hours every day other than when she has playdates (and I am
usually nearby). She sleeps for 10, is awake for 16 (yes longer than 24 hour
days) but my point is the proportion of time is still huge.
Longtime unschoolers here with teens talk about the kind of time they are
spending with their teens, by the teens' invitation and desire. They talk
about young adults living away who evidently still consider regular and
meaningful contact with their parents as essential to their own happiness.
This is the investment we are making with our little ones, and our middle
ones.
Luckily Jayn and I have a lot of crossover interests. We do a lot together,
including creative work, and she is more willing now to spend time with her
father, and he does take her off for several hours at a time intermittently,
and I then write like crazy - which is what I "do" now - writing that is
definitely an investment in long term future prosperity.
I can put in earplugs and write on the other side of the room when she has
certain kids over for playdates (those that tend not to need help with
negotiations) but there are other kids when I choose to be much more
focussed and I continue to listen more actively.
<<<<< it provides peer interaction for my younger daughter.>>>>>
So would school.
All of Jayn's playmates and associates are in her life by her choice. They
are not coming in to her home because I have brought them here for reasons
of my own. Having a bunch of kids foisted on your child every day, who are
inescapable in her own home, is not the same as allowing her to choose her
playmates from a crowd at the local home schooling park day, for instance.
<<<< It is a balancing act of meeting my business obligations, personal
obligations and my children's needs.>>>>
There are other people unschooling and offering daycare in their home for
greater or fewer numbers of kids. I don't know how they do it. I'm being
really honest here. It seems to me that you are saying you want help finding
balance, but maybe what you are really looking for is support in partly
unschooling, because I don't know what really balancing a daycare and
unschooling would look like.
I really don't know how daycare operators can give their own children the
focus and attention that real, flourishing, magical, successful unschooling
seems to demand of me for my child when they are bringing any number of
other children in to their home and being asked to realize the expectations
of the other children's parents on a regular basis.
Positives and negatives change when held up to the light of unschooling.
Priorities change when examined through the lens of unschooling. It may be
that you will never see the full benefits of unschooling, or the full
amazing transcendent brilliance of natural learning moments while you are
choosing to run a daycare. It's a bit like the person on Sandra's site who
wrote that "unschooling didn't blossom until I stepped away from traditional
parenting."
I was a vegetarian for about 15 years. When I told people I was a vege,
almost invariably the first thing they would say is "I don't eat much meat."
I'd said it myself to my vege friends before making the change. It's wasn't
until I actually stopped eating meat that I realized just how much meat was
in my diet.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
I specifically designed my business so I could be with my children. I feel
like they have benefited from me doing this even though it means I can't
always give them the time and attention they want. I realize I made the
choice to open my daycare and that choice has both positive and negative
outcomes. I think the positives outweigh the negatives most of the time.
Jen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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06:19:00
Sandra Dodd
-=-Longtime unschoolers here with teens talk about the kind of time
they are
spending with their teens, by the teens' invitation and desire. -=-
On Thursday Holly wanted to skateboard to the mall. She's 17 and a
new skateboarder. I was worried that she would get hurt, or get too
tired. The neighborhoods between here and there have driveway cuts
in the sidewalk, and she's not good enough to skate up and down those
angled cuts yet. This was my angst. She wasn't wearing long
sleeves. But all I said was something like "This is like Keith
riding the motorcycle; I worry, but I want you guys to have fun." And
I told her if she wanted a ride home to call.
She took enough money for the bus. She got to the mall even though
the route she chose was closed by serious construction (we had looked
at maps of bike paths, but none went safely to the mall for
skateboards). I helped he with those things and she wanted me to.
She started home, and called for a ride, told me where she was and
that she needed the bathroom. I advised her about the nearest good
public restroom which was also right near a place I could pick her up
easily. I drove there, she was waiting on a bench, and she got in
the car.
She had gotten on a bus, but it had made a turn south and, afraid she
was on the wrong bus, she got back off. It was just going by the
other mall and would've gone east again, but she didn't know. I
didn't shame her about it at all. I just told her that any bus driver
knows all the other routes and schedules in his own area too, and that
it's really okay to say, before putting the money in the till, "I need
to get to Juan Tabo and Menaul" or whatever. Next time she's
planning to try to take a bus by herself, I'll also talk to her about
asking for a transfer.
That was Thursday.
Yesterday, Friday, I had a horribly rough morning; a friend who was
carrying twins lost one and I was assigned the job of letting our
friends know. I wasn't sure for several hours myself whether she had
lost both. This came at a bad time for me for similar other reasons,
emotionally.
I asked Holly if she would drive me to the post office. I had four
packages of copies of -Moving a Puddle- and/or Thinking Sticks to
mail. Holly, a 17 year old girl with a car to drive, a skateboard
to ride and no school said "I'd love to."
She honestly would love to drive me to the post office.
That's not one of the things I foresaw when my kids were little. I
thought they would be "typical teenagers" at some point. Holly is my
youngest and they're all much different from typical teenagers.
I do know a few unschooling families whose teens are not as sweet and
happy as mine are. Sometimes it's because of cynicism in the
families or one parent never really participated in unschooling or
there were still rules and chores and "consequences" (unnatural
consequences "imposed" by the parents and then called "natural
consequences").
Holly drove me to the post office, even though I know how to drive
myself. We had fun even though the line was slow, smiling and waving
at people's babies and toddlers, and talking about the recent doings
of her La Cueva High School friends (she has a small group of friends
she went to the homecoming dance with--limo ride and all--because she
knew one of the girls from the SCA and was invited into the group).
The plan had been we would eat lunch and she would bring me right back
home, but she cheered me up so much I was willing to stay out longer,
so we went to the mall and I bought her a pair of sandals from the
shoe store where her boyfriend works. He sold them to us using a
family and friends discount. I didn't want him to lose his commission
that way, but he said the savings was bigger than the commission
would've been. We wandered around and shopped together in a very
leisurely and peaceful way. She ran into a friend and former co-
worker who was just about to interview at Industrial, another skater
shop. She introduced me without any hesitation or embarrassment and
we had a really nice talk while she was waiting, and we probably
calmed her down and encouraged her for the interview.
Being calm and positive is contagious. Holly infected me with it
yesterday, and that was a wonderful gift.
-=-They talk
about young adults living away who evidently still consider regular and
meaningful contact with their parents as essential to their own
happiness.
This is the investment we are making with our little ones, and our
middle
ones.-=-
This is true of my Kirby, 22 and living in Austin. I sent a
housewarming card to him and his roommates and he put it on the wall.
This is true of Marty, 20, who has a 22 year old girlfriend with her
own apartment and still wants to live at home even though she invited
him to live with her. That would be inconceivable to many people.
I keep up with the lives of several other unschoolers I know whose
oldest are living with a significant other, or are at college, or have
moved away to work, and their stories are like mine. The parenting
bond doesn't have to be broken. But it does have to be built over
many years of attention and patience and compassion.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
they are
spending with their teens, by the teens' invitation and desire. -=-
On Thursday Holly wanted to skateboard to the mall. She's 17 and a
new skateboarder. I was worried that she would get hurt, or get too
tired. The neighborhoods between here and there have driveway cuts
in the sidewalk, and she's not good enough to skate up and down those
angled cuts yet. This was my angst. She wasn't wearing long
sleeves. But all I said was something like "This is like Keith
riding the motorcycle; I worry, but I want you guys to have fun." And
I told her if she wanted a ride home to call.
She took enough money for the bus. She got to the mall even though
the route she chose was closed by serious construction (we had looked
at maps of bike paths, but none went safely to the mall for
skateboards). I helped he with those things and she wanted me to.
She started home, and called for a ride, told me where she was and
that she needed the bathroom. I advised her about the nearest good
public restroom which was also right near a place I could pick her up
easily. I drove there, she was waiting on a bench, and she got in
the car.
She had gotten on a bus, but it had made a turn south and, afraid she
was on the wrong bus, she got back off. It was just going by the
other mall and would've gone east again, but she didn't know. I
didn't shame her about it at all. I just told her that any bus driver
knows all the other routes and schedules in his own area too, and that
it's really okay to say, before putting the money in the till, "I need
to get to Juan Tabo and Menaul" or whatever. Next time she's
planning to try to take a bus by herself, I'll also talk to her about
asking for a transfer.
That was Thursday.
Yesterday, Friday, I had a horribly rough morning; a friend who was
carrying twins lost one and I was assigned the job of letting our
friends know. I wasn't sure for several hours myself whether she had
lost both. This came at a bad time for me for similar other reasons,
emotionally.
I asked Holly if she would drive me to the post office. I had four
packages of copies of -Moving a Puddle- and/or Thinking Sticks to
mail. Holly, a 17 year old girl with a car to drive, a skateboard
to ride and no school said "I'd love to."
She honestly would love to drive me to the post office.
That's not one of the things I foresaw when my kids were little. I
thought they would be "typical teenagers" at some point. Holly is my
youngest and they're all much different from typical teenagers.
I do know a few unschooling families whose teens are not as sweet and
happy as mine are. Sometimes it's because of cynicism in the
families or one parent never really participated in unschooling or
there were still rules and chores and "consequences" (unnatural
consequences "imposed" by the parents and then called "natural
consequences").
Holly drove me to the post office, even though I know how to drive
myself. We had fun even though the line was slow, smiling and waving
at people's babies and toddlers, and talking about the recent doings
of her La Cueva High School friends (she has a small group of friends
she went to the homecoming dance with--limo ride and all--because she
knew one of the girls from the SCA and was invited into the group).
The plan had been we would eat lunch and she would bring me right back
home, but she cheered me up so much I was willing to stay out longer,
so we went to the mall and I bought her a pair of sandals from the
shoe store where her boyfriend works. He sold them to us using a
family and friends discount. I didn't want him to lose his commission
that way, but he said the savings was bigger than the commission
would've been. We wandered around and shopped together in a very
leisurely and peaceful way. She ran into a friend and former co-
worker who was just about to interview at Industrial, another skater
shop. She introduced me without any hesitation or embarrassment and
we had a really nice talk while she was waiting, and we probably
calmed her down and encouraged her for the interview.
Being calm and positive is contagious. Holly infected me with it
yesterday, and that was a wonderful gift.
-=-They talk
about young adults living away who evidently still consider regular and
meaningful contact with their parents as essential to their own
happiness.
This is the investment we are making with our little ones, and our
middle
ones.-=-
This is true of my Kirby, 22 and living in Austin. I sent a
housewarming card to him and his roommates and he put it on the wall.
This is true of Marty, 20, who has a 22 year old girlfriend with her
own apartment and still wants to live at home even though she invited
him to live with her. That would be inconceivable to many people.
I keep up with the lives of several other unschoolers I know whose
oldest are living with a significant other, or are at college, or have
moved away to work, and their stories are like mine. The parenting
bond doesn't have to be broken. But it does have to be built over
many years of attention and patience and compassion.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
>>>> All of Jayn's playmates and associates are in her life by her choice.They
are not coming in to her home because I have brought them here for reasons
of my own. Having a bunch of kids foisted on your child every day, who are
inescapable in her own home, is not the same as allowing her to choose her
playmates from a crowd at the local home schooling park day, for instance.
<<<<
I am so glad I saw the significance of choice in friends for Karl as soon as
I have. He has long time friends (from his own birth) with a group of 3
siblings from a very difficult family. We were often in their company due
to a business association, which was not directly Karl's choice. When some
(in my view) extreme behavior came to a head between Karl and those siblings
(the whole family really), I wanted to make sure that his continued contact
with them was due to his own choices. There are privileges there which I
didn't want to be part of the choice and so I wanted to give him other
outlets for those privileges though I couldn't financially provide them
myself at home. So we came up with other options. Once those things were
cleared out of the picture, the factors are such now that if Karl goes over
there, it's because he wants to be with those kids not because of some other
thing or because he's tagging along with me or his dad, and there by
default.
Otherwise, the choice of one's friends is never really clear and a person
feels obliged to maintain friendships that in one's heart aren't truly one's
own but choices born and fed by habit or misplaced virtue. That is what
happens/ed to so many of us through school or church or club attendance. An
unschooled child can have much less of that kind of obligation, less
fuzziness about what friendship really means and more clarity on true
friends, when parents provide room for choice, that is.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I'd love to contribute to the discussion about Jen's query, but definitely
don't have the expertise. But could I ask for some advice on a question which
poses the opposite side of balancing your child's needs with your own?
My 12-year-old daughter recently joined a mixed-age (11 to around ...
um...90ish!) amateur orchestra and absolutely adores being part of it. I've also
been invited to join and would love to do so. I really like sharing time with
my daughter (a new luxury, having just taken her out of school). I also
like playing music. But my daughter is absolutely mortified that her mother
might come along to this group with her: in her words, "It'd be so
embarrassing!" I've already told her that I would not sit in the same section as her and
I'd allow her to have her own space at coffee breaks. I'd not 'baby' her in
any way. But she's adamant she doesn't want me there. I absolutely want to
respect her wishes, but I also want her to understand that I am a human being
with my own wishes and enthusiasms too. What would you do in this situation?
Jude
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
don't have the expertise. But could I ask for some advice on a question which
poses the opposite side of balancing your child's needs with your own?
My 12-year-old daughter recently joined a mixed-age (11 to around ...
um...90ish!) amateur orchestra and absolutely adores being part of it. I've also
been invited to join and would love to do so. I really like sharing time with
my daughter (a new luxury, having just taken her out of school). I also
like playing music. But my daughter is absolutely mortified that her mother
might come along to this group with her: in her words, "It'd be so
embarrassing!" I've already told her that I would not sit in the same section as her and
I'd allow her to have her own space at coffee breaks. I'd not 'baby' her in
any way. But she's adamant she doesn't want me there. I absolutely want to
respect her wishes, but I also want her to understand that I am a human being
with my own wishes and enthusiasms too. What would you do in this situation?
Jude
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
>>> I believe the girls learn a lot from the daycare and it providespeer interaction for my younger daughter.>>>
Two year olds don't need peer interaction. Some two yr olds enjoy the
company of other two yr olds, but for the most part, two yr olds enjoy
the company of their parents above all others. If part of your reason
for operating a childcare, was to provide peer interaction for you
little one, you should really re-examine that.
>>> I'll admit that I do feel stretched to the limit at times, but Ithink we all do at some point or another. It is a balancing act of
meeting my business obligations, personal obligations and my children's
needs. >>>
It's very common in our culture to emphasize a mom's personal time, as
seperate from mom and child time. I do understand how tiring it can be
to have little ones that have continuous demands, with seemingly no end
in sight. However a 2 yr old will soon be a 3 yr old, who will soon be
a 4 yr old. That time of endless giving a endless caring is sooooo
fleeting. It's not that a parent stops giving and caring as the kids
grow, it's that sheer intensity of a 2 yr old will dissipate as they
grow and do more and more things on their own.
I can honestly say that the more you give now, right now, each and
everyday, selflessly, the sooner and more able your little one will not
need you so intensely. A 2 yr old is still very much like a baby, still
very much attatched, much like an extension of mom, or an extra
appendage, like an umbilical cord, that will eventually not be needed to
do the feeding because there will be other better ways to meet that
need.
Jenny C
>for
> There are other people unschooling and offering daycare in their home
> greater or fewer numbers of kids. I don't know how they do it. I'mbeing
> really honest here. It seems to me that you are saying you want helpfinding
> balance, but maybe what you are really looking for is support inpartly
> unschooling, because I don't know what really balancing a daycare andWell, we just started watching the neighbor girl before and after
> unschooling would look like.
school. Her regular sitter moved rather suddenly and they were
desperate and we were available and convenient. I didn't enter into
this lightly. I discussed it over the course of 2 weeks with my family,
while watching her temporarily, with the full knowledge on both ends
that I'd make a final decision before that time was up.
The first week was a regular school week and the second one, was spring
break. It was enough for all of us to know that it will be fine for the
next couple of months, but it won't work for summer care, where she'd be
here all day, each and every day, like during spring break.
If it stops working for our family, I will give a 2 week notice. Both
of my kids know this, so they have an out if it gets to be too much for
them to handle having another child here. So far, it's been ok, with a
few bumps here and there, but these things are easily avoided with full
on interaction and things to do to occupy their time, similar, in many
ways, in which parents can help siblings get along.
Otherwise, I've avoided doing regular long term childcare because my
priority is to my own children, and I want both of my kids to know that
without a doubt. Adding other kids that aren't mine, changes
priorities.
Sandra Dodd
-=-My 12-year-old daughter recently joined a mixed-age (11 to around ...
um...90ish!) amateur orchestra and absolutely adores being part of it.
I've also
been invited to join and would love to do so. I really like sharing
time with
my daughter (a new luxury, having just taken her out of school). -=-
Let her have the orchestra.
Had she been out of school for years, she might want you to be there
too, but part of unschooling will be her finding her own place in the
world now that she's not a sixth grader or whatever she had found
herself being.
If the orchestra fails, let that slide. If it's solid and succeeds
(maybe it's a longterm thing and will still be there), maybe join next
season.
In the meantime, what about a chamber group or some easy baroque stuff
you could do with another friend or two, and invite your daughter to
get in on if she wants?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
um...90ish!) amateur orchestra and absolutely adores being part of it.
I've also
been invited to join and would love to do so. I really like sharing
time with
my daughter (a new luxury, having just taken her out of school). -=-
Let her have the orchestra.
Had she been out of school for years, she might want you to be there
too, but part of unschooling will be her finding her own place in the
world now that she's not a sixth grader or whatever she had found
herself being.
If the orchestra fails, let that slide. If it's solid and succeeds
(maybe it's a longterm thing and will still be there), maybe join next
season.
In the meantime, what about a chamber group or some easy baroque stuff
you could do with another friend or two, and invite your daughter to
get in on if she wants?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
> I'd allow her to have her own space at coffee breaks. I'd not 'baby'her in
> any way. But she's adamant she doesn't want me there. I absolutelywant to
> respect her wishes, but I also want her to understand that I am ahuman being
> with my own wishes and enthusiasms too. What would you do in thissituation?
>I'd say, honor her wishes! It's waaaay too soon, after being taken out
of school, for you to have this kind of relationship with her. You have
to show her through words and actions that you honor her decisions and
wishes. Only by doing this repeatedly for a lengthy enough time, will
she be able to see you differently.
Find other ways to play music with her, maybe ask her to share what new
pieces she's learned in the orchestra. You could offer to practice with
her outside of orchestra time. Or just fiddle around with music and
invite her to join.
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 4, 2009, at 1:37 PM, JudithAnneMurphy@... wrote:
and I offered but she apologized and said no. We do a lot together,
writing group and an anime group, but the band was her thing.
Kids need some freedom to work on their relationships without a
parent nearby. They also need things that belong to them.
If you want to grow a better relationship with her, don't join. If
you want to sacrifice an opportunity to grow it to make a point you
could join. But honestly the lesson she'd pick up isn't that you have
you're own enthusiasms but that your enthusiasms are more important
than her or her feelings.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> But she's adamant she doesn't want me there. I absolutely want toNot join. In fact the band program my daughter's in needed a bassist
> respect her wishes, but I also want her to understand that I am a
> human being
> with my own wishes and enthusiasms too. What would you do in this
> situation?
and I offered but she apologized and said no. We do a lot together,
writing group and an anime group, but the band was her thing.
Kids need some freedom to work on their relationships without a
parent nearby. They also need things that belong to them.
If you want to grow a better relationship with her, don't join. If
you want to sacrifice an opportunity to grow it to make a point you
could join. But honestly the lesson she'd pick up isn't that you have
you're own enthusiasms but that your enthusiasms are more important
than her or her feelings.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cathyandgarth
--- In [email protected], Jennifer Croce <jennifercroce37@...> wrote:
I think that it will be difficult to find balance when you can't give your children's needs the weight they deserve because of all the other things going on and pulling you in various directions in your house each day. I am not saying don't do a daycare, but I am saying that I don't think that there is going to be an "easy for you" way around this issue -- running a daycare and having an unschooling lifestyle seem like difficult things to balance.
On a more practical note, could you have sat down with her and invited other children to join you two? Sometimes she might be okay just having you down on the floor playing with her, even if other children are playing there as well. Sometimes she might just be crazing one-on-one time.
Cathy
>When my son was young (2ish) I thought long and hard about starting a home daycare. There is a HUGE need for these in our community and at first it seemed like the perfect way for me to make money and stay home with my children. I even *babysat* a friend's baby/toddler for 9 months, 3 days a week. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that there was no reasonable way that I could design this business so that I could REALLY spend more time with my children. Not only that but our home/refuge would no longer be that for us -- for most of the week it wouldn't be our house it would be a place of business. Even DH, who would have loved for a second income, could see that it would really end up sucking away at our time and freedom, costing us more in less tangible ways than I could ever make up for in money. And this was all long before I discovered the concept or lifestyle of unschooling.
> I run my home daycare and am the primary person responsible for all the domestic and child related duties.
>
I think that it will be difficult to find balance when you can't give your children's needs the weight they deserve because of all the other things going on and pulling you in various directions in your house each day. I am not saying don't do a daycare, but I am saying that I don't think that there is going to be an "easy for you" way around this issue -- running a daycare and having an unschooling lifestyle seem like difficult things to balance.
On a more practical note, could you have sat down with her and invited other children to join you two? Sometimes she might be okay just having you down on the floor playing with her, even if other children are playing there as well. Sometimes she might just be crazing one-on-one time.
Cathy
[email protected]
>I'd say, honor her wishes! It's waaaay too soon, after being taken outof school, for you to have this kind of relationship with her. You have
to show her through words and actions that you honor her decisions and
wishes. >.
>>Let her have the orchestra.Had she been out of school for years, she might want you to be there
too, but part of unschooling will be her finding her own place in the
world now that she's not a sixth grader or whatever she had found
herself being.>
>Not join. In fact the band program my daughter's in needed a bassistand I offered but she apologized and said no. We do a lot together,
writing group and an anime group, but the band was her thing.
Kids need some freedom to work on their relationships without a
parent nearby. They also need things that belong to them.>
Thank you all so much for the advice - it's really appreciated. I must
admit this was my gut instinct, and my daughter's already gone to 3 rehearsals
without me there. But I have been feeling increasingly undermined by the
other adults there (who I see when I drop Jess off and pick her up). They've
made it clear that they see me as a total wimp because I acquiesced to my
child's wishes. I'm so glad there are other people like yourselves who can
reassure someone who's still just beginning to find their way.
Jude x
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-. They've
made it clear that they see me as a total wimp because I acquiesced to
my
child's wishes. I'm so glad there are other people like yourselves w-=-
It's convenient for other parents if there's groupthink about the way
kids should be treated. If some spank and ground and punish, they
want all the others to do that too, so they can say "Well everybody
does it." <g>
The stereotypical thing that kids are criticized for doing, many
parents do. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
made it clear that they see me as a total wimp because I acquiesced to
my
child's wishes. I'm so glad there are other people like yourselves w-=-
It's convenient for other parents if there's groupthink about the way
kids should be treated. If some spank and ground and punish, they
want all the others to do that too, so they can say "Well everybody
does it." <g>
The stereotypical thing that kids are criticized for doing, many
parents do. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn L. Coburn
<<<But I have been feeling increasingly undermined by the
energy with these unpleasant, judgmental characters anyway, right?
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
> other adults there (who I see when I drop Jess off and pick her up).So you really wouldn't want to be spending a lot of your precious time and
> They've
> made it clear that they see me as a total wimp>>>>
energy with these unpleasant, judgmental characters anyway, right?
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
casa_divina
Holly, a 17 year old girl with a car to drive, a skateboard
My parents are good parents. They worked long and hard all of my childhood to give us what we had and I respect them for that. They were also unavailable parents. Physically they were at home very seldom, leaving us four kids to spend many hours every day without adult supervision. They were also emotionally unavailable in terms of being able to have deep and meaningful relationships with their children. Now that we are grown, that gap has closed a little and I feel closer to them now then ever.
But imagine my surprise when I had my first child almost 6 years ago and I discovered that I could do it different. Pure joy at discovering attachment parenting, the family bed, long-term nursing, and now unschooling. I feel like I have a chance to create something with my children that I didn't have with my parents when they were raising me and it feels enormously gratifying.
But I can often get caught up in the day to day mechanics of this unschooling life and forget that I have this beautiful thing to look forward to, which is a satisfying relationship with my children as adults. Somebody said somewhere once (how's that for a reference!) that they were totally thrilled at the prize of unschooling their children: having that deep relationship extend into the adult years.
Not to say that we should unschool with the purpose of producing these great adults (even though that is what happens). I unschool today because it deeply serves our family today, and I am confident that it will continue to serve us in even greater ways the more time we practice unschooling.
But, Sandra, thank you for letting me look into these moments with you and your children so that I may have that vision of possibility for our family. Wow! I feel refreshed and ready to give myself fully to my family and this unschooling life.
Admiringly,
Molly in Ecuador
Divina 5.5
Sabina almost 4!
> to ride and no school said "I'd love to."Thank you for that post! Tears welled up in my eyes as I began to think that maybe, just maybe I might be able to have what you have Sandra, Pam, Joyce and so many others who can reassure us young unschooling families that this lifestyle leads us closer to ourselves and closer to our children.
>
> She honestly would love to drive me to the post office.
>
> That's not one of the things I foresaw when my kids were little. I
> thought they would be "typical teenagers" at some point. Holly is my
> youngest and they're all much different from typical teenagers.
>
> I do know a few unschooling families whose teens are not as sweet and
> happy as mine are. Sometimes it's because of cynicism in the
> families or one parent never really participated in unschooling or
> there were still rules and chores and "consequences" (unnatural
> consequences "imposed" by the parents and then called "natural
> consequences").
>
> Being calm and positive is contagious. Holly infected me with it
> yesterday, and that was a wonderful gift.
>
>
> -=-They talk
> about young adults living away who evidently still consider regular and
> meaningful contact with their parents as essential to their own
> happiness.
> This is the investment we are making with our little ones, and our
> middle
> ones.-=-
>
> I keep up with the lives of several other unschoolers I know whose
> oldest are living with a significant other, or are at college, or have
> moved away to work, and their stories are like mine. The parenting
> bond doesn't have to be broken. But it does have to be built over
> many years of attention and patience and compassion.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
My parents are good parents. They worked long and hard all of my childhood to give us what we had and I respect them for that. They were also unavailable parents. Physically they were at home very seldom, leaving us four kids to spend many hours every day without adult supervision. They were also emotionally unavailable in terms of being able to have deep and meaningful relationships with their children. Now that we are grown, that gap has closed a little and I feel closer to them now then ever.
But imagine my surprise when I had my first child almost 6 years ago and I discovered that I could do it different. Pure joy at discovering attachment parenting, the family bed, long-term nursing, and now unschooling. I feel like I have a chance to create something with my children that I didn't have with my parents when they were raising me and it feels enormously gratifying.
But I can often get caught up in the day to day mechanics of this unschooling life and forget that I have this beautiful thing to look forward to, which is a satisfying relationship with my children as adults. Somebody said somewhere once (how's that for a reference!) that they were totally thrilled at the prize of unschooling their children: having that deep relationship extend into the adult years.
Not to say that we should unschool with the purpose of producing these great adults (even though that is what happens). I unschool today because it deeply serves our family today, and I am confident that it will continue to serve us in even greater ways the more time we practice unschooling.
But, Sandra, thank you for letting me look into these moments with you and your children so that I may have that vision of possibility for our family. Wow! I feel refreshed and ready to give myself fully to my family and this unschooling life.
Admiringly,
Molly in Ecuador
Divina 5.5
Sabina almost 4!
Sandra Dodd
-=Not to say that we should unschool with the purpose of producing
these great adults =-
I think it's a great purpose! To help a child grow up without damage
and shame and harm and fear and labels is Big!
To treat a child as a real, whole person even before she's 18, before
she's sixteen, before she's 12? Can people DO that?! :-)
So not "to produce" great adults," but to enable great people to stay
great and become even greater, with confidence in the natural
abilities to learn and to be helpful and aware.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
these great adults =-
I think it's a great purpose! To help a child grow up without damage
and shame and harm and fear and labels is Big!
To treat a child as a real, whole person even before she's 18, before
she's sixteen, before she's 12? Can people DO that?! :-)
So not "to produce" great adults," but to enable great people to stay
great and become even greater, with confidence in the natural
abilities to learn and to be helpful and aware.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Hsu
I was at the randomizer the other day, and this came up:
http://sandradodd.com/president
This passage gets around to the same point.
Here are my goals for my children: I want them to learn something every day.
I want them to greet the morning with joy. I want them to see strangers as
potential friends. I want their lives to be adventures without a map, where
there are innumerable destinations, and unlimited opportunities for success.
I want their definition of success to include things they can see all around
them, not just in Washington, not just at medical conventions, or the
Olympics. I want them to wake up, look out the window, and be glad of the
view. I want them to be content with their choices and their abilities. I
want them to be realistic about goals and philosophical about failure. I
want them to be happy.
A friend of mine, whose son was about 2 at the time, once told me that her
goal as a parent was to have her children be the type of children that
adults enjoy being around. It's always made me uncomfortable, and when I
read this essay, it made me realize that if instead she focused on the goals
Sandra's listed, then everyone (not just adults) would most likely enjoy
being around her kids.
http://sandradodd.com/president
This passage gets around to the same point.
Here are my goals for my children: I want them to learn something every day.
I want them to greet the morning with joy. I want them to see strangers as
potential friends. I want their lives to be adventures without a map, where
there are innumerable destinations, and unlimited opportunities for success.
I want their definition of success to include things they can see all around
them, not just in Washington, not just at medical conventions, or the
Olympics. I want them to wake up, look out the window, and be glad of the
view. I want them to be content with their choices and their abilities. I
want them to be realistic about goals and philosophical about failure. I
want them to be happy.
A friend of mine, whose son was about 2 at the time, once told me that her
goal as a parent was to have her children be the type of children that
adults enjoy being around. It's always made me uncomfortable, and when I
read this essay, it made me realize that if instead she focused on the goals
Sandra's listed, then everyone (not just adults) would most likely enjoy
being around her kids.
On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>
> So not "to produce" great adults," but to enable great people to stay
> great and become even greater, with confidence in the natural
> abilities to learn and to be helpful and aware.
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
>>> My parents are good parents. They worked long and hard all of mychildhood to give us what we had and I respect them for that. They were
also unavailable parents. Physically they were at home very seldom,
leaving us four kids to spend many hours every day without adult
supervision. They were also emotionally unavailable in terms of being
able to have deep and meaningful relationships with their children. >>>
I was struck yesterday by the thought that there are so many parents
like this, that really have NO idea what their children are going
through. It's not a new thought, but it hit me differently yesterday.
Chamille met a new girl yesterday. She's a nice kid, but clearly in the
adult avoidance category. I was thinking about how kids get grounded
from their friends, yet they can go to school and see those very kids
they are grounded from. It was an interesting thought to me, it's one
reason why school might be a better place for kids who have parents that
punish. It's one place to go and be free of that to some extent.
I was thinking about another friend of Chamille's, who's mother, I like
even if we don't always see eye to eye on parenting issues. She really
really likes a mutual friend of our daughters, yet she doesn't really
know this girl the way I've come to know her simply because the kids
talk to me about things that they don't talk to the other mom about.
The other mom encourages this friendship, and I can see many reasons not
to because the girl stirs up drama, drama that she hides from adults,
even from me.
So many parents really have don't know anything that goes on in the
lives of their teens. It's shocking really. Chamille kept me company
while I washed dishes last night, while she carried on a phone
conversation with a boy she likes. I got to be included in the
conversation here and there. I was thinking about how I would've gone
to my room to have a private conversation when I was that age, but here,
my daughter is open and honest and has nothing to hide, and in fact
encourages my involvment in her social life.
Yesterday, her friend was going to sneak off to see a boy with the guise
of seeing Chamille. I don't know if she did or not, but I told Chamille
how glad I am that she doesn't sneak off to visit boys. She looked at
me and said "I have no reason to be sneaky." and it's true, she doesn't.
Today is Chamille's birthday, she's 15! I love spending time with her,
and today I get to celebrate her!
Sandra Dodd
-=- She looked at
me and said "I have no reason to be sneaky." and it's true, she doesn't.
Today is Chamille's birthday, she's 15! I love spending time with her,
and today I get to celebrate her!-=-
Very sweet. Thanks for sharing that.
Many of your stories sounded very familiar here. <g> There are teens
who confide in my kids as though they were adults, knowing the kids
will talk to me. We're like a resource team of counsellors sometimes!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
me and said "I have no reason to be sneaky." and it's true, she doesn't.
Today is Chamille's birthday, she's 15! I love spending time with her,
and today I get to celebrate her!-=-
Very sweet. Thanks for sharing that.
Many of your stories sounded very familiar here. <g> There are teens
who confide in my kids as though they were adults, knowing the kids
will talk to me. We're like a resource team of counsellors sometimes!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanna Murphy
> Thank you all so much for the advice - it's really appreciated. I mustAs I read this, it brings me back to feeling this way in the beginnings of unschooling. The more you shift the way you think about things, the less this stuff will bug you. It bugs you more right now because you don't have the track record yet of looking back and seeing the power (vs. wimpiness) that these decisions will have in your relationship with your daughter.
> admit this was my gut instinct, and my daughter's already gone to 3 rehearsals
> without me there. But I have been feeling increasingly undermined by the
> other adults there (who I see when I drop Jess off and pick her up). They've
> made it clear that they see me as a total wimp because I acquiesced to my
> child's wishes.
But you will build up a new self-image as a parent that will drift farther and farther away from these concerns, where you will have the confidence to know what is right. And then you'll see more clearly what other people are doing that undermines their relationships with their children, and rather than feeling insecure you might even feel some pity towards them, because you can see where they are headed.
Joanna
Joanna Murphy
> Thank you all so much for the advice - it's really appreciated. I mustAs I read this, it brings me back to feeling this way in the beginnings of unschooling. The more you shift the way you think about things, the less this stuff will bug you. It bugs you more right now because you don't have the track record yet of looking back and seeing the power (vs. wimpiness) that these decisions will have in your relationship with your daughter.
> admit this was my gut instinct, and my daughter's already gone to 3 rehearsals
> without me there. But I have been feeling increasingly undermined by the
> other adults there (who I see when I drop Jess off and pick her up). They've
> made it clear that they see me as a total wimp because I acquiesced to my
> child's wishes.
But you will build up a new self-image as a parent that will drift farther and farther away from these concerns, where you will have the confidence to know what is right. And then you'll see more clearly what other people are doing that undermines their relationships with their children, and rather than feeling insecure you might even feel some pity towards them, because you can see where they are headed.
Joanna
carenkh
-=-I realize she didn't really need help but just wanted my attention. Between my other obligations and my personal feelings at the moment I just wasn't able to give it to her. I did spend some time with her it just wasn't as long as she wanted.-=-
The word "just" here popped out to me, as if you were dismissing the need for attention. Your attention is YOU. By your attention, you are giving yourself to your daughter, which is what she needs to thrive. I had some old thinking to get rid of in this area, as well - my Mom's generation was taught that it's harmful to pick up a crying child, and "too much attention" is a very bad thing to give your baby (or child). It didn't take me very long after my oldest's birth to realize those beliefs were b.s. - but it took me a longer to implement the new belief in my actions. "Oh! I have to give *of myself*?" Scary, in some ways - but OK!
I've come to realize that my kids need ME, not just in the same room, not just nearby, but by my attention and interaction - my full self.
-=-I specifically designed my business so I could be with my children. I feel like they have benefited from me doing this even though it means I can't always give them the time and attention they want.-=-
It's not want, it's NEED. And, you've stated clearly you're not *with* your children. You're occupying the same space, but YOU - your attention, your energy - are not with them. You spend time each morning and evening and at naptime - but if you are not available when your child needs you (as determined by your child, not you) - you're creating mistrust.
I believe you believe you're doing the best you can, but awareness that you're making these choices is very powerful.
Caren
The word "just" here popped out to me, as if you were dismissing the need for attention. Your attention is YOU. By your attention, you are giving yourself to your daughter, which is what she needs to thrive. I had some old thinking to get rid of in this area, as well - my Mom's generation was taught that it's harmful to pick up a crying child, and "too much attention" is a very bad thing to give your baby (or child). It didn't take me very long after my oldest's birth to realize those beliefs were b.s. - but it took me a longer to implement the new belief in my actions. "Oh! I have to give *of myself*?" Scary, in some ways - but OK!
I've come to realize that my kids need ME, not just in the same room, not just nearby, but by my attention and interaction - my full self.
-=-I specifically designed my business so I could be with my children. I feel like they have benefited from me doing this even though it means I can't always give them the time and attention they want.-=-
It's not want, it's NEED. And, you've stated clearly you're not *with* your children. You're occupying the same space, but YOU - your attention, your energy - are not with them. You spend time each morning and evening and at naptime - but if you are not available when your child needs you (as determined by your child, not you) - you're creating mistrust.
I believe you believe you're doing the best you can, but awareness that you're making these choices is very powerful.
Caren