Helping child unwind
tmissinne
We have a four year old boy, and ever since he was born he's taken a long time to settle
down to sleep. He will act tired, even say he is tired and lie down. Within 5 minutes he'll
pop up again, and start jumping up and down. He has told me that he can't get his brain
to shut down, and on another occasion that when it gets dark his brain turns on. This
wouldn't be a problem, except for he is so obviously tired, and the next day everything is
harder for him. Things that normally wouldn't bother him send him into really hard crying.
Until about February we had bedtimes (we only discovered unschooling in late 2007),
which sometimes led to 45 minutes of crying in bed before he would go to sleep. We never
left him alone, and it was pretty torturous for everybody involved.
Since February it's been up and down, but with generally an easier time going to sleep. Just
recently I switched to working two nights a week (from three mornings), so I know that
we're going through a transition. He wants me all day, doesn't want me to leave his side,
even to go get something to eat. The nights when I'm not here he's fine, but on the other
nights he's just had a really hard time winding down. The past few nights it's ended with
both of us in tears. Me just out of general tiredness and a lack of a few minutes to myself,
and him because I won't do something he wants me to do, or because the show he wants
to watch isn't on, or something like that. Then he'll cry for a few minutes until he goes to
sleep. It seems to help him go to sleep -- I think because it stops his brain from whirring
around if he's focussing on something else (this happens to me to, both my mom and I
have trouble going to sleep and staying asleep). But clearly this isn't what I want for our
family. Several times we've even told him, 'Just go to sleep' which isn't really what I want to
be doing, especially since I said it in quite an irritated tone of voice!
I'm trying to spend more time with him, and say yes more, because it seems like he has
that need. We've been driving around a couple of nights a week, but he doesn't always stay
asleep when we bring him inside, and if he wakes up it extends his going to sleep by at
least an hour. When he has a baby if he slept for even five minutes in the car, it would
delay bedtime for about 45 minutes.
Does anyone have any suggestions for us to get through this transition? And for me to
keep my patience?
Thanks
Trisha
down to sleep. He will act tired, even say he is tired and lie down. Within 5 minutes he'll
pop up again, and start jumping up and down. He has told me that he can't get his brain
to shut down, and on another occasion that when it gets dark his brain turns on. This
wouldn't be a problem, except for he is so obviously tired, and the next day everything is
harder for him. Things that normally wouldn't bother him send him into really hard crying.
Until about February we had bedtimes (we only discovered unschooling in late 2007),
which sometimes led to 45 minutes of crying in bed before he would go to sleep. We never
left him alone, and it was pretty torturous for everybody involved.
Since February it's been up and down, but with generally an easier time going to sleep. Just
recently I switched to working two nights a week (from three mornings), so I know that
we're going through a transition. He wants me all day, doesn't want me to leave his side,
even to go get something to eat. The nights when I'm not here he's fine, but on the other
nights he's just had a really hard time winding down. The past few nights it's ended with
both of us in tears. Me just out of general tiredness and a lack of a few minutes to myself,
and him because I won't do something he wants me to do, or because the show he wants
to watch isn't on, or something like that. Then he'll cry for a few minutes until he goes to
sleep. It seems to help him go to sleep -- I think because it stops his brain from whirring
around if he's focussing on something else (this happens to me to, both my mom and I
have trouble going to sleep and staying asleep). But clearly this isn't what I want for our
family. Several times we've even told him, 'Just go to sleep' which isn't really what I want to
be doing, especially since I said it in quite an irritated tone of voice!
I'm trying to spend more time with him, and say yes more, because it seems like he has
that need. We've been driving around a couple of nights a week, but he doesn't always stay
asleep when we bring him inside, and if he wakes up it extends his going to sleep by at
least an hour. When he has a baby if he slept for even five minutes in the car, it would
delay bedtime for about 45 minutes.
Does anyone have any suggestions for us to get through this transition? And for me to
keep my patience?
Thanks
Trisha
Robin Bentley
>You haven't mentioned how you encourage sleep, other than to drive
> Does anyone have any suggestions for us to get through this
> transition? And for me to
> keep my patience?
>
around in the car. Do you or your partner lay down/sleep with him at
night? Do you have some going-to-bed rituals, say turning the lights
low, having a bath with him, reading or telling a story, watching a
video, rubbing his back, cuddling him? He seems to need you more, as
you say, and doing those types of things for him can help.
If you are doing all those things already, it's possible that he has a
different rhythm to his sleep cycles that don't match yours. You say
he's always had trouble settling down. I assume that's in part because
you imposed a bedtime on him that doesn't match his bodily rhythm.
Lots of kids come to life late in the evening. That doesn't mean you
can't encourage sleep when you see that he's tired. But you can adjust
your expectations about the timing.
My dd, from babyhood, did not really settle down until at least 11
p.m. at night. I found a way to adjust to that, and since she slept
with us, eventually my sleep-wake cycle changed to accommodate hers. I
think I'm still on that cycle, even though she's 13 and stays up way
later than I can <g>.
Some more ideas/experiences here: http://sandradodd.com/sleeping
Robin B.
missalexmissalex
If he wants to sleep, but can't shut his mind off, your little guy
sounds like a prime candidate for a kid's guided meditation sleep CD. I
haven't used this myself, but when I worked in a bookstore I heard good
things from customers about The Floppy Sleep Game Cd/book by Patti
Teel. I know there are other options that don't mention having your
jammies on before you go to bed etc.--I had one when I was an older kid-
- but I can't give a specific title.
HTH-
Alex N.
sounds like a prime candidate for a kid's guided meditation sleep CD. I
haven't used this myself, but when I worked in a bookstore I heard good
things from customers about The Floppy Sleep Game Cd/book by Patti
Teel. I know there are other options that don't mention having your
jammies on before you go to bed etc.--I had one when I was an older kid-
- but I can't give a specific title.
HTH-
Alex N.
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/11/2008 11:36:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tmissinne@... writes:
<<<I think because it stops his brain from whirring
around if he's focussing on something else (this happens to me to, both my
mom and I
have trouble going to sleep and staying asleep). >>>
Storm and I are both like this. Before I found my own solution, it used to
take me hours to fall asleep. Dark, quiet room, comfortable bed, sleepy self,
yet an hour was the shortest time-no matter how tired I was-I could fall
asleep in, sometimes 2, 3 even 4 or more hours. (In bed next to a guy who can
fall asleep in 30 seconds with light, noise and in an uncomfortable
position-very frustrating). Books don't do it for me, they just encourage my brain to go.
Movies, too, though to a lesser degree. Hand-held video games, on the other
hand, are a sure-fire solution. I started out with a cheap Solitaire game,
went to a Monopoly game, and then to Game Boys. It took a while for me (over 30
at the time) to get "bored" enough with the game for it to work, but they
occupy my brain *just enough* to keep it from going to exciting things, yet if
I have the right game (something with lots of repetition), it doesn't
stimulate my brain. These days, I've gotten to the point that on a good night, I can
be asleep within 5 minutes-with a video game. They don't even have to be
that boring or repetitive any more. Storm also has trouble with lights, movies,
t.v., movement, etc., and hand held video games work for him, as well. There
are games that help him fall asleep more quickly than others, I've noticed,
but I don't usually try to influence his choice of game at night. He's been
playing them since he was between 18 months and 2 years old, and has gotten to
the point in the month since he's turned 4, to where he's now handing me the
Gameboy, saying, "I'm done." and turning over to fall asleep while I put it in
the basket by our bed.
I don't know if it works for others, but it has been *wonderful* for
inducing sleep, here.
Peace,
De
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tmissinne@... writes:
<<<I think because it stops his brain from whirring
around if he's focussing on something else (this happens to me to, both my
mom and I
have trouble going to sleep and staying asleep). >>>
Storm and I are both like this. Before I found my own solution, it used to
take me hours to fall asleep. Dark, quiet room, comfortable bed, sleepy self,
yet an hour was the shortest time-no matter how tired I was-I could fall
asleep in, sometimes 2, 3 even 4 or more hours. (In bed next to a guy who can
fall asleep in 30 seconds with light, noise and in an uncomfortable
position-very frustrating). Books don't do it for me, they just encourage my brain to go.
Movies, too, though to a lesser degree. Hand-held video games, on the other
hand, are a sure-fire solution. I started out with a cheap Solitaire game,
went to a Monopoly game, and then to Game Boys. It took a while for me (over 30
at the time) to get "bored" enough with the game for it to work, but they
occupy my brain *just enough* to keep it from going to exciting things, yet if
I have the right game (something with lots of repetition), it doesn't
stimulate my brain. These days, I've gotten to the point that on a good night, I can
be asleep within 5 minutes-with a video game. They don't even have to be
that boring or repetitive any more. Storm also has trouble with lights, movies,
t.v., movement, etc., and hand held video games work for him, as well. There
are games that help him fall asleep more quickly than others, I've noticed,
but I don't usually try to influence his choice of game at night. He's been
playing them since he was between 18 months and 2 years old, and has gotten to
the point in the month since he's turned 4, to where he's now handing me the
Gameboy, saying, "I'm done." and turning over to fall asleep while I put it in
the basket by our bed.
I don't know if it works for others, but it has been *wonderful* for
inducing sleep, here.
Peace,
De
**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and
favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn L. Coburn
> When he has a baby if he slept for even five minutes in the car, it wouldJayn was exactly the same - a short (20 min) nap at the wrong moment meaning
> delay bedtime for about 45 minutes.>>>
she would be good to go for 7 hours.
Assuming she is ready to go in to bed, when I read to Jayn in bed she falls
asleep almost at once, even when she is interested in the story. It may be
the rhythm of my reading aloud. It has the same soporific effect on my dh.
If she is not ready nothing will induce sleep.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
Sandra Dodd
-=-Until about February we had bedtimes (we only discovered
unschooling in late 2007),
which sometimes led to 45 minutes of crying in bed before he would go
to sleep. We never
left him alone, and it was pretty torturous for everybody involved.-=-
Unschooling doesn't equal "no bedtimes."
Unschooling is about not having arbitrary rules override choices in
the moment. If you want to stay up later one night or let your child
stay up later or sleep somewhere besides right where you tell him to
right when you tell him to, be flexible!
-=-He has told me that he can't get his brain to shut down, and on
another occasion that when it gets dark his brain turns on.-=-
I understand that feeling. What about recorded books he can listen
to on an iPod or Mp3 player? Or a little DVD player with headphones?
I would tell him that sleep is necessary and that when he's bigger he
can stay up, but now he needs to sleep when you sleep, but make it
inviting and comfortable if you can.
-=-Several times we've even told him, 'Just go to sleep' which isn't
really what I want to be doing, especially since I said it in quite
an irritated tone of voice!-=-
Sometimes there's no way around that, when there isn't another adult
you can put the child with. For a while we had three adults in the
house and that was helpful for Holly. When it was just me, when
Keith was in Minneapolis working and the kids were young, there were
times I was more sleepy than I was patient.
-=-Does anyone have any suggestions for us to get through this
transition? And for me to keep my patience?-=-
Drugs? He won't be four forever. It might seem like forever when
you're exhausted. Will a long warm play-in-the-tub bath get him
sleepy? Milk and cake? Hot chocolate? Turkey and cheese?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unschooling in late 2007),
which sometimes led to 45 minutes of crying in bed before he would go
to sleep. We never
left him alone, and it was pretty torturous for everybody involved.-=-
Unschooling doesn't equal "no bedtimes."
Unschooling is about not having arbitrary rules override choices in
the moment. If you want to stay up later one night or let your child
stay up later or sleep somewhere besides right where you tell him to
right when you tell him to, be flexible!
-=-He has told me that he can't get his brain to shut down, and on
another occasion that when it gets dark his brain turns on.-=-
I understand that feeling. What about recorded books he can listen
to on an iPod or Mp3 player? Or a little DVD player with headphones?
I would tell him that sleep is necessary and that when he's bigger he
can stay up, but now he needs to sleep when you sleep, but make it
inviting and comfortable if you can.
-=-Several times we've even told him, 'Just go to sleep' which isn't
really what I want to be doing, especially since I said it in quite
an irritated tone of voice!-=-
Sometimes there's no way around that, when there isn't another adult
you can put the child with. For a while we had three adults in the
house and that was helpful for Holly. When it was just me, when
Keith was in Minneapolis working and the kids were young, there were
times I was more sleepy than I was patient.
-=-Does anyone have any suggestions for us to get through this
transition? And for me to keep my patience?-=-
Drugs? He won't be four forever. It might seem like forever when
you're exhausted. Will a long warm play-in-the-tub bath get him
sleepy? Milk and cake? Hot chocolate? Turkey and cheese?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
John and Amanda Slater
-=-Does anyone have any suggestions for us to get through this
transition? And for me to keep my patience?-=-
Drugs?
***We use melotonin sometimes with the boys. Our naturopath suggested it. It is the same chemical your body uses to help you get to sleep. We don't use it often, but Eli occasionally has a very hard time falling asleep. We also drop the tempature of the house a few degrees, turn down as many lights as possible. Give warnings an hour before we go to bed. I have a mix of lemon balm and lavendar oil I rub on their chests. We play soft music in the the bedroom and we all go to bed at the same time.
Sometimes it all works well and sometimes it does not.
When schedules get really off, we put more effort into getting them to to where everyone it happy. Otherwise we go with the flow.
AmandaEli 7, Samuel 6
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
transition? And for me to keep my patience?-=-
Drugs?
***We use melotonin sometimes with the boys. Our naturopath suggested it. It is the same chemical your body uses to help you get to sleep. We don't use it often, but Eli occasionally has a very hard time falling asleep. We also drop the tempature of the house a few degrees, turn down as many lights as possible. Give warnings an hour before we go to bed. I have a mix of lemon balm and lavendar oil I rub on their chests. We play soft music in the the bedroom and we all go to bed at the same time.
Sometimes it all works well and sometimes it does not.
When schedules get really off, we put more effort into getting them to to where everyone it happy. Otherwise we go with the flow.
AmandaEli 7, Samuel 6
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-If he wants to sleep, but can't shut his mind off, your little guy
sounds like a prime candidate for a kid's guided meditation sleep CD.-=-
I had some on cassette tape, and my kids didn't love them (but I
did!). Marty did like one thing, though, that was a draw-along tape
about the circus. It would set the scene, describing how the tent
was put up with the help of elephants, and how big the poles and
ropes were or some such, and who all was there, and then after a
while it would leave just music so the kid could draw a picture, and
Marty would fall asleep to that night after night for a while.
For another long while he would fall asleep watching Dumbo in the
living room.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sounds like a prime candidate for a kid's guided meditation sleep CD.-=-
I had some on cassette tape, and my kids didn't love them (but I
did!). Marty did like one thing, though, that was a draw-along tape
about the circus. It would set the scene, describing how the tent
was put up with the help of elephants, and how big the poles and
ropes were or some such, and who all was there, and then after a
while it would leave just music so the kid could draw a picture, and
Marty would fall asleep to that night after night for a while.
For another long while he would fall asleep watching Dumbo in the
living room.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-. These days, I've gotten to the point that on a good night, I can
be asleep within 5 minutes-with a video game.-=-
Holly.
Holly takes 40 minutes to fall asleep. Me, seconds. If I'm tired,
about ten seconds. If I've gone to bed because it's time, because I
need to be up in 8 hours or something, maybe fifteen minutes, reading
magazines. I don't read books much to sleep. They get me interested
and I need to get to a stopping place and if I drop it it's noisy (or
it wounds me), but magazines with short articles are good because I
really don't care about it, it's just fluff.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
be asleep within 5 minutes-with a video game.-=-
Holly.
Holly takes 40 minutes to fall asleep. Me, seconds. If I'm tired,
about ten seconds. If I've gone to bed because it's time, because I
need to be up in 8 hours or something, maybe fifteen minutes, reading
magazines. I don't read books much to sleep. They get me interested
and I need to get to a stopping place and if I drop it it's noisy (or
it wounds me), but magazines with short articles are good because I
really don't care about it, it's just fluff.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-. I have a mix of lemon balm and lavendar oil I rub on their
chests. -=-
OH! I had juniper-scented oil and I would rub it on the bottoms of
the kids' feet sometimes. And we had some lavender I would put on
Holly's back occasionally.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
chests. -=-
OH! I had juniper-scented oil and I would rub it on the bottoms of
the kids' feet sometimes. And we had some lavender I would put on
Holly's back occasionally.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mike and Michelle
We also all go to bed around the same time (usually). We have twin 3 year olds who struggle with going to bed sometimes. One of them seems to get more active when he gets sleepy! When we notice sleepiness we begin winding things down in the house! Mom and Dad usually end up in a recliner with a book, lights are dimmed, because it is winter here Daddy starts a fire, etc. It seems that when the boys see all of this they automatically begin changing their activities too. They pull out the quiet legos, cars, etc. and sit behind the couches and play. What has really made a drastic change is when we are heading off to bed, we ask the boys if they are ready to go around and turn off all the lights! We hoped that by making them active participants in preparing for bed they would be more willing. They love it, and up to this point have wanted to do it! After turning off all of the lights they automatically head up for bed, on their own! Everybody is happy.
Michelle
---- John and Amanda Slater <fourslaterz@...> wrote:
Michelle
---- John and Amanda Slater <fourslaterz@...> wrote:
>-=-Does anyone have any suggestions for us to get through this[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>transition? And for me to keep my patience?-=-
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
g-liberatedlearning
On Dec 12, 2008, at 8:29 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
on one TV for him, with headphones, and position him so he couldn't
see our TV with our movie. He was in the same room with us, but
watching and listening to Dumbo (and eventually falling asleep) while
we watched our grown-up movie.
When he was little, Zach took a long time to fall asleep even with me
next to him. I'd listen to his breathing for what sometimes took up to
an hour, then wait a good ten minutes after I knew he'd fallen asleep
before getting back up to spend some time with dh. Most nights I fell
asleep along side him though. When he was really little, toddlerish
and younger, he'd wake up every 15 minutes if I wasn't next to him.
Zoe (11 now) on the other hand, fell asleep fast and stayed asleep
even if I got up, but.. she wouldn't fall asleep on car rides - which
almost always worked for lulling Zach to sleep.
Now, Zach is a night-owl with a natural sleeping time of about 2-3
a.m. but since he started working and has to be at work sometimes at
8:30 a.m., he juggles his bedtime a bit. He's still figuring it out
and uses melatonin occasionally to help him get to sleep when he knows
he needs to be up the next morning. Zoe tends towards a later bedtime
than me and since I started a job last summer that required an
occasional 6 a.m. wake up time, she's adjusted to having her brother
or dad hang out with her until she goes to bed. THey took over the
bedtime rituals with her - reading etc.
Dh, is a night owl too, so I'm outnumbered. For some unexplainable
reason, I used to get quite livid about his staying up so late even
though he was able to manage his business just fine during the day. I
got over it and now relish my quiet mornings to myself.
Chris in IA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> For another long while he would fall asleep watching Dumbo in theZach (17) did this too, when he was 3 - 6 or so. We would put Dumbo
> living room.
>
> Sandra
on one TV for him, with headphones, and position him so he couldn't
see our TV with our movie. He was in the same room with us, but
watching and listening to Dumbo (and eventually falling asleep) while
we watched our grown-up movie.
When he was little, Zach took a long time to fall asleep even with me
next to him. I'd listen to his breathing for what sometimes took up to
an hour, then wait a good ten minutes after I knew he'd fallen asleep
before getting back up to spend some time with dh. Most nights I fell
asleep along side him though. When he was really little, toddlerish
and younger, he'd wake up every 15 minutes if I wasn't next to him.
Zoe (11 now) on the other hand, fell asleep fast and stayed asleep
even if I got up, but.. she wouldn't fall asleep on car rides - which
almost always worked for lulling Zach to sleep.
Now, Zach is a night-owl with a natural sleeping time of about 2-3
a.m. but since he started working and has to be at work sometimes at
8:30 a.m., he juggles his bedtime a bit. He's still figuring it out
and uses melatonin occasionally to help him get to sleep when he knows
he needs to be up the next morning. Zoe tends towards a later bedtime
than me and since I started a job last summer that required an
occasional 6 a.m. wake up time, she's adjusted to having her brother
or dad hang out with her until she goes to bed. THey took over the
bedtime rituals with her - reading etc.
Dh, is a night owl too, so I'm outnumbered. For some unexplainable
reason, I used to get quite livid about his staying up so late even
though he was able to manage his business just fine during the day. I
got over it and now relish my quiet mornings to myself.
Chris in IA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Dec 12, 2008, at 6:31 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
are very sleepy are probably dealing with RLS. It isn't terribly
uncommon - maybe as many as 10 percent of people have it over the
course of a lifetime, and a significant percentage of people have it
as children. It is almost never diagnosed in children, most people
brush it off as "growing pains" or even as a form of hyperactivity. I
used to tell my mom, night after night, that my legs "wanted to run"
even when I wanted to sleep. It isn't anything to take lightly, it is
pure agony and has serious health repercussions. It is another good
reason to sleep with your child because if you're sending them off to
sleep alone, you won't realize how awful the constant overwhelming
urge to move the legs is. It may or may not involve actual pain -
mine does, but some people describe it as "ants under the skin"
discomfort. People with RLS become depressed and have lots of other
serious health issues that all have chronic lack of decent sleep as
the root cause.
Light leg massage is a wonder for children with RLS - and distraction
is almost essential (listening too books on my iPod nano is my
favorite distraction - it has a sleep timer, so shuts itself off).
For help getting to sleep, when sleepy but too mentally active to
relax, melatonin can be wonderful. It is the one thing that gives a
truly deep good sleep - not drug-induced, but natural. Don't give them
over-the-counter sleep medications - they usually have benadryl
(antihistamine) in them (including tylenol pm, etc) - benadryl
aggravates RLS in most people.
Anyway, if your child complains that their can't hold their legs still
or that their legs feel creepy or weird or tingly or excited or achy
or painful, consider the possibility of RLS. It is genetic, but not a
simple pass-down from parent to child - it seems to be the result of a
series of genes, not just one. Still it does run in families.
-pam
> Me, seconds. If I'm tired,Some of you whose kids seem to not be able to sleep even though they
> about ten seconds. If I've gone to bed because it's time, because I
> need to be up in 8 hours or something, maybe fifteen minutes, reading
> magazines. I don't read books much to sleep.
are very sleepy are probably dealing with RLS. It isn't terribly
uncommon - maybe as many as 10 percent of people have it over the
course of a lifetime, and a significant percentage of people have it
as children. It is almost never diagnosed in children, most people
brush it off as "growing pains" or even as a form of hyperactivity. I
used to tell my mom, night after night, that my legs "wanted to run"
even when I wanted to sleep. It isn't anything to take lightly, it is
pure agony and has serious health repercussions. It is another good
reason to sleep with your child because if you're sending them off to
sleep alone, you won't realize how awful the constant overwhelming
urge to move the legs is. It may or may not involve actual pain -
mine does, but some people describe it as "ants under the skin"
discomfort. People with RLS become depressed and have lots of other
serious health issues that all have chronic lack of decent sleep as
the root cause.
Light leg massage is a wonder for children with RLS - and distraction
is almost essential (listening too books on my iPod nano is my
favorite distraction - it has a sleep timer, so shuts itself off).
For help getting to sleep, when sleepy but too mentally active to
relax, melatonin can be wonderful. It is the one thing that gives a
truly deep good sleep - not drug-induced, but natural. Don't give them
over-the-counter sleep medications - they usually have benadryl
(antihistamine) in them (including tylenol pm, etc) - benadryl
aggravates RLS in most people.
Anyway, if your child complains that their can't hold their legs still
or that their legs feel creepy or weird or tingly or excited or achy
or painful, consider the possibility of RLS. It is genetic, but not a
simple pass-down from parent to child - it seems to be the result of a
series of genes, not just one. Still it does run in families.
-pam
tmissinne
"For help getting to sleep, when sleepy but too mentally active to relax, melatonin can be
wonderful. It is the one thing that gives a truly deep good sleep - not drug-induced, but
natural."
Several people have mentioned this. Is it safe to use with a four-year-old? I don't want
everyone to think that I'm jumping straight onto medication as the answer, except that
we've tried sooooo many things, including videos and gameboys and books and baths etc.
The problem with many of the conventional bedtime things is that he thinks we're trying to
trick him. After being forced to go to bed for so long, he's only just getting to the point
where he'll even let me read books to him, before he'd say something like, "but I'm not
ready to go to sleep" as that was part of our bedtime routine when we were forcing him to
stay in bed.
Some nights playing his gameboy works, or watching videos. It's those nights when
nothing seems to work. I'll definitely try to ask him about his legs, to see if it might be
RLS. I don't think so, but it's a good idea. Just from listening to him talk when he's going
to sleep or driving in the car, I'm pretty sure his mind is just spinning. He takes in
information voraciously, and is curious about everything, which is great except I don't
think that he can always turn it off. He'll go from asking about what makes eardrums work
to what's inside a black hole and on and on. When he's really tired he won't even pause for
answers.
Trisha
wonderful. It is the one thing that gives a truly deep good sleep - not drug-induced, but
natural."
Several people have mentioned this. Is it safe to use with a four-year-old? I don't want
everyone to think that I'm jumping straight onto medication as the answer, except that
we've tried sooooo many things, including videos and gameboys and books and baths etc.
The problem with many of the conventional bedtime things is that he thinks we're trying to
trick him. After being forced to go to bed for so long, he's only just getting to the point
where he'll even let me read books to him, before he'd say something like, "but I'm not
ready to go to sleep" as that was part of our bedtime routine when we were forcing him to
stay in bed.
Some nights playing his gameboy works, or watching videos. It's those nights when
nothing seems to work. I'll definitely try to ask him about his legs, to see if it might be
RLS. I don't think so, but it's a good idea. Just from listening to him talk when he's going
to sleep or driving in the car, I'm pretty sure his mind is just spinning. He takes in
information voraciously, and is curious about everything, which is great except I don't
think that he can always turn it off. He'll go from asking about what makes eardrums work
to what's inside a black hole and on and on. When he's really tired he won't even pause for
answers.
Trisha
tmissinne
'Unschooling doesn't equal "no bedtimes."'
You're right, but this is something I didn't understand at first. There are definitely some
groups out there that give a different idea, and we just went a little far in not helping him,
at first. Then, I think, we didn't really know what to do for awhile. (this goes for
everything, not just bedtimes) Now I feel like we've got a pretty good handle on other
issues, but sleeping has so far eluded us. We need to figure it out because he keeps his
little brother (2) up as well. Normally Evan just comes to me and says "I'm tired" and is
asleep in 10 min. But if Deacon is up too, it doesn't go so smoothly!
"I understand that feeling. What about recorded books he can listen to on an iPod or Mp3
player? Or a little DVD player with headphones?
I would tell him that sleep is necessary and that when he's bigger he can stay up, but
now he needs to sleep when you sleep, but make it inviting and comfortable if you can."
I'd love to get him listening to stories, I've done some looking but haven't found ones
Ithink he'd like. It needs to be longer, but not scary. He's sensitive to people not being
nice. Alot of the longer ones are for older kids and I'm concerned they might be scary.
Anyone have any suggestions?
"He won't be four forever. It might seem like forever when you're exhausted."
Thank you for that reminder!
Trisha
You're right, but this is something I didn't understand at first. There are definitely some
groups out there that give a different idea, and we just went a little far in not helping him,
at first. Then, I think, we didn't really know what to do for awhile. (this goes for
everything, not just bedtimes) Now I feel like we've got a pretty good handle on other
issues, but sleeping has so far eluded us. We need to figure it out because he keeps his
little brother (2) up as well. Normally Evan just comes to me and says "I'm tired" and is
asleep in 10 min. But if Deacon is up too, it doesn't go so smoothly!
"I understand that feeling. What about recorded books he can listen to on an iPod or Mp3
player? Or a little DVD player with headphones?
I would tell him that sleep is necessary and that when he's bigger he can stay up, but
now he needs to sleep when you sleep, but make it inviting and comfortable if you can."
I'd love to get him listening to stories, I've done some looking but haven't found ones
Ithink he'd like. It needs to be longer, but not scary. He's sensitive to people not being
nice. Alot of the longer ones are for older kids and I'm concerned they might be scary.
Anyone have any suggestions?
"He won't be four forever. It might seem like forever when you're exhausted."
Thank you for that reminder!
Trisha
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-Until about February we had bedtimes (we only discovered
> unschooling in late 2007),
> which sometimes led to 45 minutes of crying in bed before he would go
> to sleep. We never
> left him alone, and it was pretty torturous for everybody involved.-=-
>
> Unschooling doesn't equal "no bedtimes."
>
> Unschooling is about not having arbitrary rules override choices in
> the moment. If you want to stay up later one night or let your child
> stay up later or sleep somewhere besides right where you tell him to
> right when you tell him to, be flexible!
>
> -=-He has told me that he can't get his brain to shut down, and on
> another occasion that when it gets dark his brain turns on.-=-
>
> I understand that feeling. What about recorded books he can listen
> to on an iPod or Mp3 player? Or a little DVD player with headphones?
>
> I would tell him that sleep is necessary and that when he's bigger he
> can stay up, but now he needs to sleep when you sleep, but make it
> inviting and comfortable if you can.
>
> -=-Several times we've even told him, 'Just go to sleep' which isn't
> really what I want to be doing, especially since I said it in quite
> an irritated tone of voice!-=-
>
> Sometimes there's no way around that, when there isn't another adult
> you can put the child with. For a while we had three adults in the
> house and that was helpful for Holly. When it was just me, when
> Keith was in Minneapolis working and the kids were young, there were
> times I was more sleepy than I was patient.
>
> -=-Does anyone have any suggestions for us to get through this
> transition? And for me to keep my patience?-=-
>
> Drugs? He won't be four forever. It might seem like forever when
> you're exhausted. Will a long warm play-in-the-tub bath get him
> sleepy? Milk and cake? Hot chocolate? Turkey and cheese?
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
k
It works wonders for Karl when he's sleepy or tired. We got him a DS
Lite so he can play Super Mario & his Gameboy stuff works in it too.
~Katherine
Lite so he can play Super Mario & his Gameboy stuff works in it too.
~Katherine
On 12/12/08, Sanguinegirl83@... <Sanguinegirl83@...> wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/11/2008 11:36:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>
> tmissinne@... writes:
>
> <<<I think because it stops his brain from whirring
> around if he's focussing on something else (this happens to me to, both my
> mom and I
> have trouble going to sleep and staying asleep). >>>
>
>
>
>
> Storm and I are both like this. Before I found my own solution, it used to
> take me hours to fall asleep. Dark, quiet room, comfortable bed, sleepy self,
> yet an hour was the shortest time-no matter how tired I was-I could fall
> asleep in, sometimes 2, 3 even 4 or more hours. (In bed next to a guy who can
> fall asleep in 30 seconds with light, noise and in an uncomfortable
> position-very frustrating). Books don't do it for me, they just encourage my brain to go.
> Movies, too, though to a lesser degree. Hand-held video games, on the other
> hand, are a sure-fire solution. I started out with a cheap Solitaire game,
> went to a Monopoly game, and then to Game Boys. It took a while for me (over 30
> at the time) to get "bored" enough with the game for it to work, but they
> occupy my brain *just enough* to keep it from going to exciting things, yet if
> I have the right game (something with lots of repetition), it doesn't
> stimulate my brain. These days, I've gotten to the point that on a good night, I can
> be asleep within 5 minutes-with a video game. They don't even have to be
> that boring or repetitive any more. Storm also has trouble with lights, movies,
> t.v., movement, etc., and hand held video games work for him, as well. There
> are games that help him fall asleep more quickly than others, I've noticed,
> but I don't usually try to influence his choice of game at night. He's been
> playing them since he was between 18 months and 2 years old, and has gotten to
> the point in the month since he's turned 4, to where he's now handing me the
> Gameboy, saying, "I'm done." and turning over to fall asleep while I put it in
> the basket by our bed.
>
> I don't know if it works for others, but it has been *wonderful* for
> inducing sleep, here.
>
> Peace,
> De
> **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and
> favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-He's sensitive to people not being
nice. Alot of the longer ones are for older kids and I'm concerned
they might be scary.
Anyone have any suggestions?-=-
http://www.greathall.com/
Jim Weiss CDs maybe?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nice. Alot of the longer ones are for older kids and I'm concerned
they might be scary.
Anyone have any suggestions?-=-
http://www.greathall.com/
Jim Weiss CDs maybe?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
> We have a four year old boy, and ever since he was born he's taken along time to settle
> down to sleep. He will act tired, even say he is tired and lie down.Within 5 minutes he'll
> pop up again, and start jumping up and down.I know this may seem contrary to sleep inducing activities, but Margaux
has been like this too, and when she does that, we let her jump on the
trampoline and get totally out of breath and then try again to fall
asleep. We call it getting your yaya's out before climbing to bed!
Sometimes it works amazingly well. Sometimes it takes about an hour
until she is exhausted enough to settle down, but during that time,
nobody is crying or upset. I usually take the time to swap out a load
of laundry and fold and put away a load of clothes, or read in bed. I
don't do any of the normal daily activities, I try to keep it like
nighttime activities, in the bedroom part of the house.
We've been driving around a couple of nights a week, but he doesn't
always stay
> asleep when we bring him inside, and if he wakes up it extends hisgoing to sleep by at
> least an hour. When he has a baby if he slept for even five minutes inthe car, it would
> delay bedtime for about 45 minutes.Driving rarely made Margaux fall asleep. She'll even stay awake on very
long road trips, the whole time, like well over 24 hrs. She's stayed
awake on a road trip from Oregon to New Mexico before and it was about
30 hrs. During that time she would doze for about 5-10 mins every few
hours and then pop her eyes open to see more. My older daughter
would've slept about half that time, and she would generally fall asleep
in the car and stay asleep. When she was a baby, she wore a hat that
would slip down onto her eyes and it would keep it dark and keep her
asleep when we went from dark car at night to lights in a house. It
wasn't a planned intent when we bought that hat, but it turned out to be
a, can't leave home without it sort of hat!
> Does anyone have any suggestions for us to get through thistransition? And for me to
> keep my patience?We've watched movies, listened to books on cd, played the DS, read
books, given massages, burned lavendar candles, given baths, dimmed
lights, put special lights on, eaten food, played with dolls in bed,
played with laptops side by side in bed. Some of it worked better than
other things, but not because of the thing itself, mostly things worked
better simply because someone was more tired that particular time than
another. It makes more sense to make the sleeping time fun and
peaceful. Even though, all those things can be done during the daytime,
we make them more nighttime by removing ourselves from daytime activity
spaces and go into the bedroom.
By far, the very best way to get Marguax to sleep well, is to do
something very tiring during the daytime, long walks, lots of outdoor
play, science museum, zoo, new and different and exciting sensory kind
of things that involve physical activity. On days that we aren't able
to do that, we bring out the trampoline, or play with the dog or chase
the cats around with toys, or tumble on pillows in the living room, or
play DDR, or rake leaves, or pull weeds, or jump rope, or hoola hoop, or
or or, etc.
k
On RLS, I had always heard that was psychosomatic and until Brian and
I separated a couple of years ago it wasn't something I would have
thought was serious. It was so bad I couldn't possibly sleep and I
was working so I got very tired before I even realized what it was.
So no kidding. The doctor gave me muscle relaxer.
~Katherine
I separated a couple of years ago it wasn't something I would have
thought was serious. It was so bad I couldn't possibly sleep and I
was working so I got very tired before I even realized what it was.
So no kidding. The doctor gave me muscle relaxer.
~Katherine
Sandra Dodd
-=-Several people have mentioned this. Is it safe to use with a four-
year-old? I don't want
everyone to think that I'm jumping straight onto medication as the
answer-=-
My comment was about drugs for the mom to be calm. (The question was
about changing the mom's attitude or something, I think.)
My mom had a cousin who used to give each of her several children a
dose of paregoric every night. That was in the 1940's and 50's, when
you could go down to the drugstore and buy opium by the bottle.
I don't guess drugging kids is a good idea at all, but now that my
kids are older, I'm not above an occasional evening of Tylenol PM or
NyQuill for my own self.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
year-old? I don't want
everyone to think that I'm jumping straight onto medication as the
answer-=-
My comment was about drugs for the mom to be calm. (The question was
about changing the mom's attitude or something, I think.)
My mom had a cousin who used to give each of her several children a
dose of paregoric every night. That was in the 1940's and 50's, when
you could go down to the drugstore and buy opium by the bottle.
I don't guess drugging kids is a good idea at all, but now that my
kids are older, I'm not above an occasional evening of Tylenol PM or
NyQuill for my own self.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Laureen
Heya!
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:11 AM, Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>wrote:
> Some of you whose kids seem to not be able to sleep even though they
> are very sleepy are probably dealing with RLS. It isn't terribly
> uncommon - maybe as many as 10 percent of people have it over the
> course of a lifetime, and a significant percentage of people have it
> as children. It is almost never diagnosed in children, most people
> brush it off as "growing pains" or even as a form of hyperactivity.
All three of my children sleep better after a leg massage. Aurora (who is
5.5 months old) settles down much better after I rub her hips and upper
legs. For Rowan, who's 6 and has catastrophic growth spurts, I rub the
length of his legs and feet, and I also give him... oh, the name's escaping
me right now, but there's a homeopathic remedy for growing pains. Kestrel
just likes all over touch, so I tend to rub his back.
I don't think "growth pains" should be dismissed at all; I remember growth
spurts as being uncomfortable, and I can imagine that while there are things
to concentrate on, they could be pushed back, but once it's dark and quiet,
the discomfort would become way more noticeable.
--
~~L!
~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~
Writing here:
http://www.theexcellentadventure.com/
Evolving here:
http://www.consciouswoman.org/
~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/12/2008 1:42:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tmissinne@... writes:
<<<The problem with many of the conventional bedtime things is that he
thinks we're trying to
trick him. After being forced to go to bed for so long, he's only just
getting to the point
where he'll even let me read books to him, before he'd say something like,
"but I'm not
ready to go to sleep" as that was part of our bedtime routine when we were
forcing him to
stay in bed.>>>
When Storm started feeling like bedtime was inflexible, we started being
sure we read books and played video games at different times during the day, not
just after dark or "at bedtime". Also, when he'd want to make a trip
downstairs (that was his way of gauging whether or not he was "being made to" do
"bedtime"), I'd ask what he needed, offer to get it myself or have someone else
bring it up, and if he still wanted to get it, it was fine. Sometimes a trip
for a cup of milk would take 20 minutes, but I either joined him and the rest
of the family downstairs for a while or, more often, I would just wait
upstairs for him to come back.
Another thing that helped with the transition from "living area" to
"sleeping area" was some sort of a game. Chase was a popular one for a while, with
variations on who was chasing and who was escaping, always ending on the bed
with great roars and giggles. Another was tossing on the bed, where I'd put his
belly on my shoulder and count to 3, then toss him (using his legs for
leverage) onto the bed with a *bounce*. A game of tickle sometimes works, but he
just doesn't seem to like that at bedtime, for some reason. Very recently, he's
been interested in helping Malachi, his Cabbage Patch doll, get ready for
bed: changing clothes, snuggling, tucking into bed, combing hair. When it
becomes too routine or resistant, we just change things up and try something new.
Inspiration comes from strange sources, sometimes-I never would have thought
active things like "chase" or bed-tossing would be conductive to sleep, but I
think they make the bedroom and bed a fun area rather than something to be
dreaded for Storm.
Peace,
De
**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and
favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tmissinne@... writes:
<<<The problem with many of the conventional bedtime things is that he
thinks we're trying to
trick him. After being forced to go to bed for so long, he's only just
getting to the point
where he'll even let me read books to him, before he'd say something like,
"but I'm not
ready to go to sleep" as that was part of our bedtime routine when we were
forcing him to
stay in bed.>>>
When Storm started feeling like bedtime was inflexible, we started being
sure we read books and played video games at different times during the day, not
just after dark or "at bedtime". Also, when he'd want to make a trip
downstairs (that was his way of gauging whether or not he was "being made to" do
"bedtime"), I'd ask what he needed, offer to get it myself or have someone else
bring it up, and if he still wanted to get it, it was fine. Sometimes a trip
for a cup of milk would take 20 minutes, but I either joined him and the rest
of the family downstairs for a while or, more often, I would just wait
upstairs for him to come back.
Another thing that helped with the transition from "living area" to
"sleeping area" was some sort of a game. Chase was a popular one for a while, with
variations on who was chasing and who was escaping, always ending on the bed
with great roars and giggles. Another was tossing on the bed, where I'd put his
belly on my shoulder and count to 3, then toss him (using his legs for
leverage) onto the bed with a *bounce*. A game of tickle sometimes works, but he
just doesn't seem to like that at bedtime, for some reason. Very recently, he's
been interested in helping Malachi, his Cabbage Patch doll, get ready for
bed: changing clothes, snuggling, tucking into bed, combing hair. When it
becomes too routine or resistant, we just change things up and try something new.
Inspiration comes from strange sources, sometimes-I never would have thought
active things like "chase" or bed-tossing would be conductive to sleep, but I
think they make the bedroom and bed a fun area rather than something to be
dreaded for Storm.
Peace,
De
**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and
favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Have you considered it may just be the way his mind works? I've been that
way since I was a kid. I can be thinking about black holes or anagrams or
seeing shapes while playing with the Gameboy, or using other objects as
accompaniment to whatever is rolling through my mind. Karl makes new
chapters for his ongoing stories at bedtime & drifts off to sleep. Then I
lie awake for a while longer. My mind jumps from thing to thing. I'm very
used to it.
Action and exercise get Karl to sleep when he's wakeful, and the small
indoor trampoline is the ticket at those times. When he's sleepy the Gameboy
or DS is perfect, and he plays during the day so it's not new or exciting
but old hat. He used to draw or color at night and I put the markers on the
table after he fell asleep.
~Katherine
way since I was a kid. I can be thinking about black holes or anagrams or
seeing shapes while playing with the Gameboy, or using other objects as
accompaniment to whatever is rolling through my mind. Karl makes new
chapters for his ongoing stories at bedtime & drifts off to sleep. Then I
lie awake for a while longer. My mind jumps from thing to thing. I'm very
used to it.
Action and exercise get Karl to sleep when he's wakeful, and the small
indoor trampoline is the ticket at those times. When he's sleepy the Gameboy
or DS is perfect, and he plays during the day so it's not new or exciting
but old hat. He used to draw or color at night and I put the markers on the
table after he fell asleep.
~Katherine
On 12/12/08, tmissinne wrote:
> Some nights playing his gameboy works, or watching videos. It's those
nights when
> nothing seems to work. I'll definitely try to ask him about his legs, to
see if it might be
> RLS. I don't think so, but it's a good idea. Just from listening to him
talk when he's going
> to sleep or driving in the car, I'm pretty sure his mind is just
spinning. He takes in
> information voraciously, and is curious about everything, which is great
except I don't
> think that he can always turn it off. He'll go from asking about what
makes eardrums work
> to what's inside a black hole and on and on. When he's really tired he
won't even pause for
> answers.
>
> Trisha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
John and Amanda Slater
-=-Several people have mentioned this. Is it safe to use with a four-
year-old? I don't want
everyone to think that I'm jumping straight onto medication as the
answer-=-
***My doctor recommended melotonin for my 7 and 5 yo old. Lower doses are often better. If you get a pill you can cut off a piece. Start with as little as .5 ml. Samuel almost never needs it, unless sleep has been rare and he is sick or we have a very busy week and we are trying to get him down extra early. Eli has RLS I'm sure and sometimes lays in bed for hours without being able to fall asleep. Melotonin normally works in minutes. Samuel has it once every few months, Eli once every few weeks. Everything I've read says it is safe, however I would not use too often as it is feared it could lower the body's natural production.
AmandaEli 7, Samuel 6
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
year-old? I don't want
everyone to think that I'm jumping straight onto medication as the
answer-=-
***My doctor recommended melotonin for my 7 and 5 yo old. Lower doses are often better. If you get a pill you can cut off a piece. Start with as little as .5 ml. Samuel almost never needs it, unless sleep has been rare and he is sick or we have a very busy week and we are trying to get him down extra early. Eli has RLS I'm sure and sometimes lays in bed for hours without being able to fall asleep. Melotonin normally works in minutes. Samuel has it once every few months, Eli once every few weeks. Everything I've read says it is safe, however I would not use too often as it is feared it could lower the body's natural production.
AmandaEli 7, Samuel 6
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tmissinne
"Have you considered it may just be the way his mind works? I've been that way since I
was a kid. I can be thinking about black holes or anagrams or seeing shapes while
playing with the Gameboy, or using other objects as accompaniment to whatever is rolling
through my mind. Karl makes new chapters for his ongoing stories at bedtime & drifts off
to sleep. Then I lie awake for a while longer. My mind jumps from thing to thing. I'm very
used to it."
Yes, I'm SURE it's the way his mind works. Mainly because of remembering what it was like
for me as a child, laying awake for hours before I could go to sleep. He's already ahead of
the game, compared to where I was as a child. Once he goes to sleep, he stays asleep, as
long as he's near us. We cosleep so that's not a problem. And I agree, he will get used to
it, and learn coping mechanisms to help himself go to sleep. What I want to do is help that
process along a little, just give him some ideas. It took me until my mid-twenties to really
learn how to fall asleep, and some times I still have trouble. When I lay awake with my
mind spinning, it is not pleasant. He's alot like me, so I have to be careful not to draw
parallels willy-nilly, but I do believe that he Is sometimes bothered by it.
I've already ordered some stories from the library that he can listen too, and I know that I
also need to get us outdoors more. It does help him. In the winter it's difficult, as he's
sensitive in many other ways, as well, to cold, wet, etc. He prefers the regularity of
indoors, even in the summer. But there are some outdoor things he really likes to do, and
there's a gymnastics open time that he really enjoys, which we won't be able to go to for a
couple of weeks, as his thumb was slammed in the door last night by his little brother. He
lost his thumbnail, but he did sleep really well after spending a couple of hours at the ER!
I also really like the idea of a trampoline, will be heading to Craigslist momentarily!
Trisha
Trisha
was a kid. I can be thinking about black holes or anagrams or seeing shapes while
playing with the Gameboy, or using other objects as accompaniment to whatever is rolling
through my mind. Karl makes new chapters for his ongoing stories at bedtime & drifts off
to sleep. Then I lie awake for a while longer. My mind jumps from thing to thing. I'm very
used to it."
Yes, I'm SURE it's the way his mind works. Mainly because of remembering what it was like
for me as a child, laying awake for hours before I could go to sleep. He's already ahead of
the game, compared to where I was as a child. Once he goes to sleep, he stays asleep, as
long as he's near us. We cosleep so that's not a problem. And I agree, he will get used to
it, and learn coping mechanisms to help himself go to sleep. What I want to do is help that
process along a little, just give him some ideas. It took me until my mid-twenties to really
learn how to fall asleep, and some times I still have trouble. When I lay awake with my
mind spinning, it is not pleasant. He's alot like me, so I have to be careful not to draw
parallels willy-nilly, but I do believe that he Is sometimes bothered by it.
I've already ordered some stories from the library that he can listen too, and I know that I
also need to get us outdoors more. It does help him. In the winter it's difficult, as he's
sensitive in many other ways, as well, to cold, wet, etc. He prefers the regularity of
indoors, even in the summer. But there are some outdoor things he really likes to do, and
there's a gymnastics open time that he really enjoys, which we won't be able to go to for a
couple of weeks, as his thumb was slammed in the door last night by his little brother. He
lost his thumbnail, but he did sleep really well after spending a couple of hours at the ER!
I also really like the idea of a trampoline, will be heading to Craigslist momentarily!
Trisha
Trisha
--- In [email protected], k <katherand@...> wrote:
>
> Have you considered it may just be the way his mind works? I've been that
> way since I was a kid. I can be thinking about black holes or anagrams or
> seeing shapes while playing with the Gameboy, or using other objects as
> accompaniment to whatever is rolling through my mind. Karl makes new
> chapters for his ongoing stories at bedtime & drifts off to sleep. Then I
> lie awake for a while longer. My mind jumps from thing to thing. I'm very
> used to it.
>
> Action and exercise get Karl to sleep when he's wakeful, and the small
> indoor trampoline is the ticket at those times. When he's sleepy the Gameboy
> or DS is perfect, and he plays during the day so it's not new or exciting
> but old hat. He used to draw or color at night and I put the markers on the
> table after he fell asleep.
>
> ~Katherine
>
>
>
>
> On 12/12/08, tmissinne wrote:
>
> > Some nights playing his gameboy works, or watching videos. It's those
> nights when
> > nothing seems to work. I'll definitely try to ask him about his legs, to
> see if it might be
> > RLS. I don't think so, but it's a good idea. Just from listening to him
> talk when he's going
> > to sleep or driving in the car, I'm pretty sure his mind is just
> spinning. He takes in
> > information voraciously, and is curious about everything, which is great
> except I don't
> > think that he can always turn it off. He'll go from asking about what
> makes eardrums work
> > to what's inside a black hole and on and on. When he's really tired he
> won't even pause for
> > answers.
> >
> > Trisha
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
tmissinne
"I don't guess drugging kids is a good idea at all, but now that my
kids are older, I'm not above an occasional evening of Tylenol PM or
NyQuill for my own self."
I was talking purely about melatonin, although drugs to help me be calm sounds like a good
idea ;o)
I'm really lucky to have a great husband who can see when I'm about to lose my patience, and
is really good at stepping in.
Trisha
kids are older, I'm not above an occasional evening of Tylenol PM or
NyQuill for my own self."
I was talking purely about melatonin, although drugs to help me be calm sounds like a good
idea ;o)
I'm really lucky to have a great husband who can see when I'm about to lose my patience, and
is really good at stepping in.
Trisha
Pamela Sorooshian
On Dec 12, 2008, at 8:50 AM, tmissinne wrote:
him, while you're reading, "Remember not to fall asleep." <G>
Do it gently, so he knows it is really okay if he wants to go to sleep
- but lighten up the whole topic by playing around a little.
I used to fall asleep while reading sometimes. It was funny -
apparently I'd slowly drift into reciting a grocery shopping list and
then just stop talking. After I realized what I was doing, sometimes
I'd do it on purpose to entertain the kids. You could do something
like that, too, to lighten up the atmosphere around the whole issue of
sleep.
-pam
> before he'd say something like, "but I'm notTell him, "Let's read books, but please do NOT go to sleep." Remind
> ready to go to sleep" as that was part of our bedtime routine when
> we were forcing him to
> stay in bed.
him, while you're reading, "Remember not to fall asleep." <G>
Do it gently, so he knows it is really okay if he wants to go to sleep
- but lighten up the whole topic by playing around a little.
I used to fall asleep while reading sometimes. It was funny -
apparently I'd slowly drift into reciting a grocery shopping list and
then just stop talking. After I realized what I was doing, sometimes
I'd do it on purpose to entertain the kids. You could do something
like that, too, to lighten up the atmosphere around the whole issue of
sleep.
-pam
Pamela Sorooshian
On Dec 12, 2008, at 10:54 AM, k wrote:
your head <BEG>. It is a processing problem in the way the brain uses
dopamine - a glitch in the dopamine receptors.
But, muscle relaxants don't do anything for it at all. It is not
musculature that is the problem. Most doctors are still pretty
ignorant about it and will frequently prescribe muscle relaxants or
sleeping pills or anti-depressants. Then you give horrible heeby-jeeby
legs PLUS you feel too rubbery to do anything or too zonked out.
There are things that can help and there are drugs that act directly
on the dopamine receptors in the brain.
I wouldn't pursue this, but it is almost NEVER something parents
consider with their children. As someone who suffered a lot from it as
a child, I sure wish at least I'd have been believed that it wasn't
just me being "over-tired" - that's why my parents used to say. I felt
like it was my fault - my punishment for playing too hard (I was a
tomboy in the 50's when that was still a bit uncool, girls had to wear
dresses and act like girls).
-pam
> On RLS, I had always heard that was psychosomatic and until Brian andIt isn't psychosomatic. It is neurological, though, so it is all in
> I separated a couple of years ago it wasn't something I would have
> thought was serious. It was so bad I couldn't possibly sleep and I
> was working so I got very tired before I even realized what it was.
> So no kidding. The doctor gave me muscle relaxer.
your head <BEG>. It is a processing problem in the way the brain uses
dopamine - a glitch in the dopamine receptors.
But, muscle relaxants don't do anything for it at all. It is not
musculature that is the problem. Most doctors are still pretty
ignorant about it and will frequently prescribe muscle relaxants or
sleeping pills or anti-depressants. Then you give horrible heeby-jeeby
legs PLUS you feel too rubbery to do anything or too zonked out.
There are things that can help and there are drugs that act directly
on the dopamine receptors in the brain.
I wouldn't pursue this, but it is almost NEVER something parents
consider with their children. As someone who suffered a lot from it as
a child, I sure wish at least I'd have been believed that it wasn't
just me being "over-tired" - that's why my parents used to say. I felt
like it was my fault - my punishment for playing too hard (I was a
tomboy in the 50's when that was still a bit uncool, girls had to wear
dresses and act like girls).
-pam
Pamela Sorooshian
I don't know about melatonin for kids - don't know how much you'd give
them. You'll need to do some research on it yourself.
-pam
them. You'll need to do some research on it yourself.
-pam
On Dec 12, 2008, at 10:58 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> -=-Several people have mentioned this. Is it safe to use with a four-
> year-old? I don't want
> everyone to think that I'm jumping straight onto medication as the
> answer-=-
tmissinne
"I don't think "growth pains" should be dismissed at all; I remember growth spurts as being
uncomfortable, and I can imagine that while there are things to concentrate on, they could be
pushed back, but once it's dark and quiet, the discomfort would become way more
noticeable."
I don't know why I didn't think of this, as I suffered terribly from them as a child. Definitely
not something to be dismissed! I'll see if he's interested in a leg massage, or a hot water
bottle, which used to help me. Ours has a fuzzy purple cover with fairies on it, which makes it
way more fun!
Trisha
uncomfortable, and I can imagine that while there are things to concentrate on, they could be
pushed back, but once it's dark and quiet, the discomfort would become way more
noticeable."
I don't know why I didn't think of this, as I suffered terribly from them as a child. Definitely
not something to be dismissed! I'll see if he's interested in a leg massage, or a hot water
bottle, which used to help me. Ours has a fuzzy purple cover with fairies on it, which makes it
way more fun!
Trisha
>