Sandra Dodd

This is anonymous but I have the okay to bring it to the list:

-=-Anyway, my question pertains to my 6 yo son and eating. I have
always in the past put controls on his eating (at which I cringe when
thinking about after what I now know) such as only " healthy foods"
and sugary things very limited, organic foods, etc. So, as you can
expect, now that I say "yes" to things he asks for, he is really
having fun. He has been eating LOTS of cookies, ice cream, cake,
etc. I have been preparing monkey platters (but realize I need to
get more creative) but he prefers the fun foods at this time. What
concerns me is not what he is eating because I do realize balance
will take some time as he was pretty controlled for his whole life
but more of "how long will this last" before he balances out. What
concerns me most is his health and frankly, he is gaining weight at a
noticeable rate. My husband is really concerned because he struggled
with weight issues himself at my son's age and worries that our son
will too. As a mom, it is hard for me to watch him gaining weight so
fast and instinctually not do anything about this! However, as I
understand it, if I put the controls back on it will keep going...and
I really believe that at some point it will balance out...just at
what cost to his health and weight. I hope I am not sounding
superficial b/c, truly, I'm not... We've been practicing unschooling
since the beginning of October.

-=-I'd really appreciate any help, insight, advice or comments you
have as I really respect your ideas and love Always Learning!
-=-

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Angela Shaw

Did you just begin saying yes more or did you just tell him one day he can
eat whatever he wants, whenever he wants? October was only last month. He
may be wondering still when you are going to put the rules back in place.

Angela



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

mnbyelich

I started out ust saying "yes" but then I think at some point I said
something to the effect that he can eat what he wants. He even told my
mom that he has the ability to make a decision about what and where he
eats so I think I must have told him this at some point. I do realize
that it really is just a month so he may feel like the controls may
snap back, but my fear is that he will gain a fast, unhealthy weight
for which he'll then struggle with for a long time...perhaps even his
whole life. As a mom, it's just so hard to stand by and watch that
happen...even though I know the outcome will be so worth it.

His body doesn't seem as healthy as it once did...I plan on being more
active myself in the hopes it gets him interested so I'm hopeful that
may help.

--- In [email protected], "Angela Shaw" <game-
enthusiast@...> wrote:
>
> Did you just begin saying yes more or did you just tell him one day
he can
> eat whatever he wants, whenever he wants? October was only last
month. He
> may be wondering still when you are going to put the rules back in
place.
>
> Angela
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Lauren Seaver

>>>As a mom, it is hard for me to watch him gaining weight so
fast and instinctually not do anything about this! However, as I
understand it, if I put the controls back on it will keep going...and
I really believe that at some point it will balance out...just at
what cost to his health and weight. <<<<

I personally would try not to worry about it. A lifetime of controls around food could take a bit of time to balance out.

I think kids can read us (and our feelings) very well. It sounds like there is some fear about your ds's future health and well-being in your post. Maybe he is feeling that fearful vibe, esp. if you're thinking these thoughts while preparing/offering him food. Perhaps he doesn't think you've really let go of the controls, or that you aren't comfortable with his food choices, and this might be influencing his eating?

Another thought I have (that might help *you* to feel better/more relaxed on this issue) is to try to fit in some more really fun, exciting, active activities into your days--paintball, laser tag, ice skating, etc. (if ds is game of course) so that you're all getting lots of exercise while encouraging connection and learning together? Perhaps finding ways to be really physical together might help you to let go of some of that fear around the food/weight issue??

Just some thoughts I had! I'm pretty new here, so do let me know if any of my ideas are out of line w/ radical unschooling!


Lauren :)



"Like the moon, come out from behind the clouds! Shine."
~the Buddah

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/25/2008 4:31:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Sandra@... writes:

<<<What
concerns me most is his health and frankly, he is gaining weight at a
noticeable rate.>>>



I know that both of my boys tend to a) eat more b) gain weight when they are
hitting a growth spurt. They usually go through a growth spurt at the same
time, but Wyl (9) is heading into one, now, where Storm (4) seems to be on his
usual path. Up until Wyl was around 6, he was *very* thin-to the point that
I was starting to get concerned. He had also had a very long (years) period
where he barely grew at all. A few months after his "thinness" had seemed to
get extreme and I was really getting worried, he really started getting round
in the middle. He got a good-sized belly and then suddenly grew several inches
and evened out. His growth spurts have been much more even since then (not
so much gap between them and not so much variance in the thinness/chubby belly
department), but the pattern remains: eat then grow.

I think partly because we trust him to know what his body needs food-wise
and partly because we've not commented (within his hearing) on his body size,
along with talking about nutrition information regularly with him and among
the family, he has a healthy food concept. As his dad and I are both
overweight, I occasionally worry that they (more Wyl than Storm) might develop weight
problems, but then I remember that they have an *entirely* different
relationship with food *and* their bodies than either one of us did/do - plus, even
though I am obese, I like who I *am* and that is very, very important in the
scope of things. I would far rather be fat and like me than be thin and hate
myself.

Peace,
De
**************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks,
and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com
today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp
%26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Nov 25, 2008, at 11:21 PM, mnbyelich wrote:

> but my fear is that he will gain a fast, unhealthy weight
> for which he'll then struggle with for a long time...perhaps even his
> whole life.

This is a foundationless fear, though. There's no foundation to
support the belief that a quick weight gain takes a long time to
remove. (In fact it's a good idea not to get on the scales right
after vacation. Wait a week for everything to settle back to normal.)

I think the less focus on weight the better, especially in growing
kids who do tend to bulk up several times during childhood before a
growth spurt. This is normal and natural for them. The focus should
be on what makes healthy bodies: finding ways that the kids enjoy to
be active, making sure the healthy food is easy or easier to get than
the snacky foods.

> He has been eating LOTS of cookies, ice cream, cake, etc.
>

Is there a reason all of this is in your home? Did he ask for it at
the store?

He should feel free to ask. And he should feel that there's an
unlimited amount (that you'll always get more from the store if he
wants it). But you don't need it around just because you're saying yes.

Better is baking together. There's the King Arthur Flour Whole Grain
Baking cookbook that can help with more nutrition dense baked goods.
There are probably a lot of others too.

Joyce

John and Amanda Slater

> He has been eating LOTS of cookies, ice cream, cake, etc.

>



****Samuel seems to mostly eat sweet food.  Normally we keep lots of ice cream in the house, but everything else (chips, cookies, cake, marshmallows, soda) we only have by request.  Ice cream is his favorite so we try to always have it in the house. 

Also, when we go out I pack other things he likes.  Yogurt, strawberries, bananas, cheese and crackers.  Things he likes, but is less likely to choose at home. 

AmandaEli 7, Samuel 6























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

mnbyelich

there a reason all of this is in your home? Did he ask for it at
> the store?
>
> He should feel free to ask. And he should feel that there's an
> unlimited amount (that you'll always get more from the store if he
> wants it). But you don't need it around just because you're saying
yes.

Yes, I guess my thought was that I *should* have a little extra
around so that he would feel like if he asked for it, it was
available to him. But as someone else posted too, I think it makes
more sense that if he asks for it I'll put it on the shopping list.
However, he often goes food shopping with me and chooses his snacks
and sweets so more gets purchased those times than if I went food
shopping myself :) Last time we went shopping he wanted a large pie
and ice cream, I told him he could make a choice for one of these (I
guess not so unschooling) but I was concerned that was really too
much. I guess that may have given him a message that there really
are still controls and limits? Would others have bought both pie and
ice cream? Or is it really ok to just say, ok, one thing this week
and one thing next week?


Better is baking together. There's the King Arthur Flour Whole
Grain
> Baking cookbook that can help with more nutrition dense baked
goods.
> There are probably a lot of others too.

I do try to get him to bake with me but he doesn't have an interest,
however, he does have an interest in eating all (literally) the
cookies I make that day :0

natalie

--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Nov 25, 2008, at 11:21 PM, mnbyelich wrote:
>
> > but my fear is that he will gain a fast, unhealthy weight
> > for which he'll then struggle with for a long time...perhaps even
his
> > whole life.
>
> This is a foundationless fear, though. There's no foundation to
> support the belief that a quick weight gain takes a long time to
> remove. (In fact it's a good idea not to get on the scales right
> after vacation. Wait a week for everything to settle back to
normal.)
>
> I think the less focus on weight the better, especially in growing
> kids who do tend to bulk up several times during childhood before
a
> growth spurt. This is normal and natural for them. The focus
should
> be on what makes healthy bodies: finding ways that the kids enjoy
to
> be active, making sure the healthy food is easy or easier to get
than
> the snacky foods.
>
> > He has been eating LOTS of cookies, ice cream, cake, etc.
> >
>
> Is there a reason all of this is in your home? Did he ask for it
at
> the store?
>
> He should feel free to ask. And he should feel that there's an
> unlimited amount (that you'll always get more from the store if he
> wants it). But you don't need it around just because you're saying
yes.
>
> Better is baking together. There's the King Arthur Flour Whole
Grain
> Baking cookbook that can help with more nutrition dense baked
goods.
> There are probably a lot of others too.
>
> Joyce
>

mnbyelich

> ****Samuel seems to mostly eat sweet food. Normally we keep lots
of ice cream in the house, but everything else (chips, cookies, cake,
marshmallows, soda) we only have by request. Ice cream is his
favorite so we try to always have it in the house

Max's fav is ice cream too. I like your idea of putting special
requests on the shopping list...but he often shops with me so
conitnues to make these choices.
natalie

--- In [email protected], John and Amanda Slater
<fourslaterz@...> wrote:
>
>
> > He has been eating LOTS of cookies, ice cream, cake, etc.
>
> >
>
>
>
> ****Samuel seems to mostly eat sweet food.  Normally we keep lots
of ice cream in the house, but everything else (chips, cookies, cake,
marshmallows, soda) we only have by request.  Ice cream is his
favorite so we try to always have it in the house. 
>
> Also, when we go out I pack other things he likes.  Yogurt,
strawberries, bananas, cheese and crackers.  Things he likes, but is
less likely to choose at home. 
>
> AmandaEli 7, Samuel 6
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

mnbyelich

=I think kids can read us (and our feelings) very well. It sounds
like there is some fear about your ds's future health and well-being
in your post. Maybe he is feeling that fearful vibe, esp. if you're
thinking these thoughts while preparing/offering him food. Perhaps
he doesn't think you've really let go of the controls, or that you
aren't comfortable with his food choices, and this might be
influencing his eating=

You are completely right, thanks! I will keep this in mind. After
reading these posts I'm starting to feel better so hope I can
*manage* these fears better!
natalie


--- In [email protected], Lauren Seaver <yis4yoga@...>
wrote:
>
> >>>As a mom, it is hard for me to watch him gaining weight so
> fast and instinctually not do anything about this! However, as I
> understand it, if I put the controls back on it will keep
going...and
> I really believe that at some point it will balance out...just at
> what cost to his health and weight. <<<<
>
> I personally would try not to worry about it. A lifetime of
controls around food could take a bit of time to balance out.
>
> I think kids can read us (and our feelings) very well. It sounds
like there is some fear about your ds's future health and well-being
in your post. Maybe he is feeling that fearful vibe, esp. if you're
thinking these thoughts while preparing/offering him food. Perhaps
he doesn't think you've really let go of the controls, or that you
aren't comfortable with his food choices, and this might be
influencing his eating?
>
> Another thought I have (that might help *you* to feel better/more
relaxed on this issue) is to try to fit in some more really fun,
exciting, active activities into your days--paintball, laser tag, ice
skating, etc. (if ds is game of course) so that you're all getting
lots of exercise while encouraging connection and learning together?
Perhaps finding ways to be really physical together might help you to
let go of some of that fear around the food/weight issue??
>
> Just some thoughts I had! I'm pretty new here, so do let me know
if any of my ideas are out of line w/ radical unschooling!
>
>
> Lauren :)
>
>
>
> "Like the moon, come out from behind the clouds! Shine."
> ~the Buddah
>

mnbyelich

De, thanks! It makes me feel so much better hearing about the growth
spurts! And yes, I have to find ways of making healthy eating and
ideas a part of our life without my usual rantings (before
unschooling :) ) about healthy foods vs. "bad" foods...I did A LOT
of that...could that be why he is eating so much... :0
natalie

--- In [email protected], Sanguinegirl83@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 11/25/2008 4:31:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> Sandra@... writes:
>
> <<<What
> concerns me most is his health and frankly, he is gaining weight
at a
> noticeable rate.>>>
>
>
>
> I know that both of my boys tend to a) eat more b) gain weight
when they are
> hitting a growth spurt. They usually go through a growth spurt at
the same
> time, but Wyl (9) is heading into one, now, where Storm (4) seems
to be on his
> usual path. Up until Wyl was around 6, he was *very* thin-to the
point that
> I was starting to get concerned. He had also had a very long
(years) period
> where he barely grew at all. A few months after his "thinness" had
seemed to
> get extreme and I was really getting worried, he really started
getting round
> in the middle. He got a good-sized belly and then suddenly grew
several inches
> and evened out. His growth spurts have been much more even since
then (not
> so much gap between them and not so much variance in the
thinness/chubby belly
> department), but the pattern remains: eat then grow.
>
> I think partly because we trust him to know what his body needs
food-wise
> and partly because we've not commented (within his hearing) on his
body size,
> along with talking about nutrition information regularly with him
and among
> the family, he has a healthy food concept. As his dad and I are
both
> overweight, I occasionally worry that they (more Wyl than Storm)
might develop weight
> problems, but then I remember that they have an *entirely*
different
> relationship with food *and* their bodies than either one of us
did/do - plus, even
> though I am obese, I like who I *am* and that is very, very
important in the
> scope of things. I would far rather be fat and like me than be thin
and hate
> myself.
>
> Peace,
> De
> **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social
networks,
> and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com
> today!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?
redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp
> %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-I think the less focus on weight the better, especially in growing
kids who do tend to bulk up several times during childhood before a
growth spurt.-=-

And especially just before Thanksgiving and Christmas. Don't even
look at it until after a solid deschooling period and into the more-
active summer months.

Marty and Kirby both went through pudgy phases and then came out
taller and thinner again, three or four times, and they never had
food rules or deprivations. Their dad was BIG from infancy. He's a
little over 6' and his parents are 5'7 and 5'1 or so. His brothers
are shorter than he is. His mother shamed him ceaselessly. Proof is
that at the table, out for lunch, last Thursday, she asked him how
much he weighs, because he went for another plate at a Chinese
buffet. Keith's 52 and his mother is still ragging on him. Holly's
boyfriend was there to meet them for the first time and he was kind
of stunned, even though his own mother is a shaming kind of mom. He
told Keith later than it seemed he (Brett) was the only one at the
table who was surprised that the question had been asked.

School and Keith's mom were both cruel to him when he was a kid. My
kids didn't have school or a food-controlling mom. I bet all of us
know unhappy thin people and happy fat people and shamed-to-death
people of all sizes, so the real question for this list isn't how to
control of manipulate people, but how to provide an environment in
which they can grow in such calm self reflection and awareness that
they can learn naturally from the things around them.

My sister got divorced recently (the second time) and she lost a lot
of weight, from stress and workaholic tendencies and increased
smoking. She thinks it's cool. She's suddenly unhealthily thin (111
pounds at one point recently and she's 5'5" so there's one extreme:
the idea that emotional upheaval would create gauntness and that it's
a great thing.



Styles change over generations and from culture to culture, and
people agitate over not having the ideal size, hair, lips, feet...
One of the best things about unschooling is that we can focus on
strengths and joys instead of imperfections (whether seasonal,
temporary or permanent).



Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

Lauren wrote:
-=-Perhaps finding ways to be really physical together might help you
to let go of some of that fear around the food/weight issue??-=-

I think that's a good idea, especially if it's REALLY carefully seen
by the mom as a way to help her relax, and not a way to "make sure"
he loses weight.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John Slater

An easy way to increase movement is to set up a friendly house. We
have two mini-trampolines, a chin-up bar mounted at kid height in an
out-of-the-way doorway and a set of rings. Even on days we don't
leave the house (many) the boys still get plenty of movement.

http://www.amazon.com/Airzone-38-Inch-Mini-Band-Trampoline/dp/B000067Q0P/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1227714477&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Valeo-VA4526SL-Chin-Up-Bar/dp/B0007IS746/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1227714505&sr=1-5

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/00041048

Amanda
Eli 7, Samuel 6

Sandra Dodd

-=-Max's fav is ice cream too. I like your idea of putting special
requests on the shopping list...but he often shops with me so
conitnues to make these choices. -=-

I used to tell my kids they could pick one thing, but it wasn't like
"you can't pick two things," it was like "Is there something you want
to get?" And when I leave for the store, anytime, I ask everyone in
the house if there's something they want from the store.

If you go and are just browsing and considering buying every single
thing, and if he's been told no for six years, then yes, he might
load up on more stuff than he really even wants to eat. So maybe
start sticking to a list for a while.

Sometimes I go and browse a store. Now it's Holly who says no all
the time. I'll try to buy her clothes and candy and new chapstick
and shoes and she says no, she doesn't need them, but it's kinda cool
to be the mother of a girl, and the youngest, who's very politely and
enthusiastically saying "Thanks, but I already have enough
shoes" (lest anyone think it's the sullen refusal of a kid who wants
to prove she can say no).



Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John and Amanda Slater

-=-Max's fav is ice cream too. I like your idea of putting special

requests on the shopping list...but he often shops with me so

conitnues to make these choices. -=-



****What about having him carry whatever he picks through the store?  Well, maybe not the ice cream, but a bag of chips or whatever he picks.  It might be easier for him to only pick one thing if it is in his hands.
AmandaEli 7, Samuel 6





















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John and Amanda Slater

Another way to limit sweets without limiting is to ask what he would like with his cake.  "Sure I'll get you a piece of cake, can I cut you an apple to go with it?"  Or just take him a piece of cake and apple slices for yourself.  Allow him to say no, but I bet he sometimes says yes. 

Amanda
Eli 7, Samuel 6





















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Yes, I guess my thought was that I *should* have a little extra
around so that he would feel like if he asked for it, it was
available to him. But as someone else posted too, I think it makes
more sense that if he asks for it I'll put it on the shopping list. -=-

Try to see a large range of options, and not just huge quantities or
nothing but a list to write on.

-=-However, he often goes food shopping with me and chooses his
snacks and sweets so more gets purchased those times than if I went
food shopping myself :) -=-

I have a recommendation I think you should adopt immediately, and as
retroactively as possible.

Rid your vocabulary of "snacks" and "sweets" and "treats." Start
thinking of food as food.

-=-he ... chooses his snacks and sweets-=-

Does he get to choose which cheese you get? Which vegetables?
Juice? Bread?



-=-I do try to get him to bake with me but he doesn't have an
interest, however, he does have an interest in eating all (literally)
the cookies I make that day :0 -=-

Anyone whose cookies have been counted in the past will want to eat
lots-to-all.

No one who has had lots-to-all from birth or for many years will want
to eat them all.

He doesn't need to have an interest in baking for you to bake things
for him. Part of the glory of cookies and cake are the smells and
sights--the bowl and spoon to lick, the feel of them hot, the
incomparable combo of a fresh cookie and a glass of milk.

The last two times I made cookies, I only cooked up one tray at a
time. The rest of the dough went into smallish containers in the
back of the fridge. A few days later, I made one tray of cookies. A
few days later, more. My husband likes the raw cookie dough, and he
ate a little, knowing it would be there later.

-=-I guess that may have given him a message that there really are
still controls and limits?-=-

Yes, you're still talking about controls and limits with us, about
him. And even if you swore a solemn oath that you would never limit
him again, he has a lifetime of experience with you, and probably
expects this to be temporary. Every time you show fear or
frustration, whether you verbalize it or not, he'll probably stuff
his cheeks like a chipmunk thinking the whole happy deal is about to
be rescinded.

-=-Would others have bought both pie and ice cream? Or is it really
ok to just say, ok, one thing this week and one thing next week?-=-

First, I would have. But on the other hand, we keep vanilla ice
cream as a staple item. When it's gone we get more, and it stays in
the freezer always, like milk and butter and eggs stay in the fridge
always, and bread is always in the breadbox. One can't have pie
with ice cream unless one has both.

Secondly, you have set up two choices: Both every time, or measured
out by the week.

-=-Or is it really ok -=-

"Really ok" encompasses a world. It's really okay to spank your kid
and ground him. It's legal, and millions of parents want you to do
that so they feel better. I'm assuming you're trying to figure out
what will help him make better choices about food and to help him
learn, and so saying he can choose one thing a week seems to me to be
arbitrary, and a week is a long time to a six year old.



Sandra










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Another way to limit sweets without limiting is to ask what he
would like with his cake. "Sure I'll get you a piece of cake, can I
cut you an apple to go with it?"-=-

In my head I heard the insulting kind of mom-voice that says the cake
is evil and the apple will redeem it.

Having sliced-up apples in a bowl on the table already, or setting
them out while you're making a cake or getting him a slice, without a
speech to go with it, seems great and wonderful. Asking if you can
give him an apple to go with cake seems very different to me.

And if one's worried about weight gain a piece of cake and an apple
is more fattening than just a piece of cake. It might help it pass
through more quickly, but...

Now maybe apple slices baked or microwaved with sugar and cinnamon on
them... with ice cream... :-)

Apple slices with a little bit of cake frosting for dip... that might
satisfy a cake or pie urge sometimes. Apple slices with a little
saucer of cinnamon and sugar to dip in sounds like something I want
right now!

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rue Kream

>>She's suddenly unhealthily thin (111 pounds at one point recently and
she's 5'5"

**I’m assuming you mean your sister in her particular situation is
unhealthy, not that anyone who is 5’5” and 111 lbs is unhealthy, cuz
you’re logical like that <g> so my response isn’t directed towards what
you said, just inspired by it. So here’s where reading that led me…

Keeping weight a non-issue is just as important for kids who are thinner
than average as it is for any other kids. I’m 5’ 4 ½” and usually weigh
between 106-112 pounds. Other than a few years when I was having babies
I have always been very thin, and I have always heard much more than I
would like to about it (although never from my parents, thankfully).
People call me skinny or say I’m scrawny or, and this really happened –
a man I had never met before, at a party, as I walked away to get food –
that I’m built like a carrot stick. I think I can honestly say that not
a month of my life (since I was old enough to remember) has gone by
without at least one comment about my size. That had some serious
affects on me when I was a teenager.

When I was about eleven I was at a friend’s house. We were making dinner
with her mom. My friend said something about me being skinny and her
mom said, “She’s not skinny, she’s thin.” That’s one of my first
memories of thinking about how the words we choose matter. I was
reminded of that moment yesterday. Dagny and I were watching the clip
that’s all over the internet of Martha Stewart and Snoop Dogg making
mashed potatoes (don’t ask me why – apparently if I see a link enough
times I will eventually click on it) and Martha called Snoop skinny. He
said, “I’m athletically built. That’s what you call this.” I filed
that away for future use.

Recently at a homeschooling gathering a mom said to me, “What do you
think about food?” I said, “I love food. I think food is good.” Of
course, she wasn’t asking whether I liked food, but what I thought about
limiting food. My answer’s the same either way.

People grow in all sorts of shapes and sizes and will have different
shapes and sizes in different seasons of their lives. That’s not
something to worry about. ~Rue


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Sandra Dodd

-=-I�m assuming you mean your sister in her particular situation is
unhealthy, not that anyone who is 5�5� and 111 lbs is unhealthy, cuz
you�re logical like that <g> -=-

Ah. Correct.

For my sister it was a plummet and she's bony.

-=-People grow in all sorts of shapes and sizes and will have
different shapes and sizes in different seasons of their lives.
That�s not something to worry about. ~Rue-=-

You're right. I meant to make the example that sudden weight gain is
lately met with panic, while sudden weight loss can be praised, even
when it's evidence of fearful stress and substance overuse as it is
with my sister this season. She's usually been in the 125 range and
took a dive toward 100 all of a sudden. All she got in person was
praise, but it wasn't praiseworthy.



Sandra

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Laureen

Heya!

On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 1:30 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

> So, as you can
> expect, now that I say "yes" to things he asks for, he is really
> having fun. He has been eating LOTS of cookies, ice cream, cake,
> etc.


Can you take joy in the fun he's having?


> I have been preparing monkey platters (but realize I need to
> get more creative) but he prefers the fun foods at this time.


The division between "fun foods" and "not fun foods" is odd. You know that
you can make an entire forest on your plate from broccoli, right?


> What
> concerns me is not what he is eating because I do realize balance
> will take some time as he was pretty controlled for his whole life
> but more of "how long will this last" before he balances out.


You still sound concerned, if you want it to stop.


> What
> concerns me most is his health and frankly, he is gaining weight at a
> noticeable rate.


Why are you noticing? I mean... is he outgrowing his clothes? How old is he?


> My husband is really concerned because he struggled
> with weight issues himself at my son's age and worries that our son
> will too.


So this isn't about your son, it's about your husband.


> As a mom, it is hard for me to watch him gaining weight so
> fast and instinctually not do anything about this!


So go play in the park more. Don't worry about his eating so much.


> However, as I
> understand it, if I put the controls back on it will keep going...and
> I really believe that at some point it will balance out...just at
> what cost to his health and weight.


You might want to do some serious research into your own fears. I really dig
the stuff on the junkfood science website, about the American weirdness
about obesity. We have the most messed-up attitudes about food, and people
discuss "the French paradox" whereby the French eat all kinds of things we
think of as "unhealthy" but don't have all the "effects" we do. They're
beginning to figure out that eating with joy and pleasure seems to matter.

There's also a great section in "What the Bleep Do We Know" where they
discuss the idea that it really doesn't matter what you eat, what matters is
how your body's been conditioned to accept it.

FWIW, my older son was HUGE as a baby.... and now he's so skinny we have to
put him in drawstring pants because otherwise they slide down when he runs.
My younger son was a skinny baby, and is now thoroughly solid. Same genes,
same family, same diet, totally different attitude towards eating (for
Rowan, it's something he does because he must. For Kestrel, eating is the
focus of his world)


--
~~L!

~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~
Writing here:
http://www.theexcellentadventure.com/

Evolving here:
http://www.consciouswoman.org/
~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~


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Lyla Wolfenstein

i totally agree this can be said in different ways! sometimes though, i offer a glass of milk (no allergies here) with cake or with chocolate or cookies - partly because BOTH my kids and I love that combo but sometimes they don't think of it, and also because it does address that potential need for protein to combine with the sugar....

but that when talking about weight gain, of course it does add more calories, too, but i also think a glass of milk and a peice of cake may sometimes fill someone up enough to not choose a second peice of cake, for instance.

i feel for the OP, because my son, who used to be really very thin has gained a lot of weight this year - both coinciding with being 9-10 (when my daughter and i both went through a pre-growth spurt weight gain phase, and i think a lot of kids do), and coinciding with our transition to fully unschooling. however, it's been almost a year now for us, and i really have seen him go from the "over consumption" described in the original post to a place of really no extra energy or focus given to sweets or chips, etc. than to any other food, and a place where he turns down sweets as often or way more often than he seeks them. it is just a nonn-issue now. but the weight remains, and although i am personally not too worried about it, and have never mentioned it to him - HE is very very self conscious about it and hates it, hates his body, is very self deriding (even though he has never heard any of use speak about ourselves or anyone else that way), but feels incapable of making lifestyle changes (too much pressure for him right now) to actively address it.

my hope and assumption is that his body will continue to change, with growth and development and that his negative feelings about it are short term, both because of future changes (physically) and because he will also be growing and developing emotionally. i would love input though, from anyone whose *child* was concerned, but not old enough/emotionally ready to alter their life to prioritize it. but i do want to reassure the OP that the hyperfocus on foods will very very likely fade as the trust that this approach is here to stay builds.

warmly, Lyla

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John and Amanda Slater

--- On Wed, 11/26/08, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:












-=-Another way to limit sweets without limiting is to ask what he

would like with his cake. "Sure I'll get you a piece of cake, can I

cut you an apple to go with it?"-=-



In my head I heard the insulting kind of mom-voice that says the cake

is evil and the apple will redeem it.




***I was thinking about making sure the cake is just cake and not a meal. 

This morning I noticed Eli eating a lollipop.  I just smiled.  When I noticed he was eating his forth lollipop I offered to get him a pear.  I was not trying to get him to stop eating lollipops, but knew that if he was truely hungry the lollipops were not going to take care of it. 
AmandaEli 7, Samuel 6





















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Sandra Dodd

-=-> I have been preparing monkey platters (but realize I need to
> get more creative) but he prefers the fun foods at this time.

The division between "fun foods" and "not fun foods" is odd. You know
that
you can make an entire forest on your plate from broccoli, right?-=-

I missed that one the first time.

He got that "fun food" idea from his parents and from the way food
was handled before last month, so you need to give it time. Half a
year or more.

During that time, maybe read all this:

http://sandradodd.com/food

And maybe read it all (and there's a lot of it) again in a month or
so. It can't hurt. Every moment you spend reading there and the
links from those, you're not pressuring or watching or measuring or
worrying your child, and the less you look at him and think about
food, the less he'll think about food too.

-=-There's also a great section in "What the Bleep Do We Know" where
they discuss the idea that it really doesn't matter what you eat,
what matters is how your body's been conditioned to accept it.-=-

Eeek. That program... Channelling 40,000 year old anybody. I
object. Not as good as looking at living children in our own homes.

Here's a little bit on eating in peace and joy, though:

http://sandradodd.com/eating/peace

As to a mom changing her point of view on what's "fun" (regarding
food or anything), there are words and phrases that live in people
like tumors and they come back and get big when there's worry, and
they have recordings in them, and sometimes mean faces and finger-
wags. The fewer of those recordings your own children have of you,
the better.

These are bigger than just separating "fun food" from [what kind of
food?], but it's the same idea, and trying to take all words
seriously is good. People don't say or write something without it
having passed through thought. It's easier to change words than
thoughts, and by hearing the words it's easier to be aware of the
thoughts.

Sandra








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Rue Kream

>>I meant to make the example that sudden weight gain is lately met with
panic, while sudden weight loss can be praised

**Absolutely.

I was thinking a bit more about this, and about the fact that probably
most of the times people comment to me they mean it some sort of
positive way. From my end, though, that never made any difference.
Making an issue of someone's size doesn't bring anything good to them,
in my experience.

(and can I just magically change 'affects' to 'effects' in my last
post?)

~Rue, off to thanksgiving-eve dinner, where I'll bet you $1 someone says
something about what I eat.

Jenny C

> shopping myself :) Last time we went shopping he wanted a large pie
> and ice cream, I told him he could make a choice for one of these (I
> guess not so unschooling) but I was concerned that was really too
> much. I guess that may have given him a message that there really
> are still controls and limits? Would others have bought both pie and
> ice cream? Or is it really ok to just say, ok, one thing this week
> and one thing next week?


Well, it depends. We don't have food restrictions in our house, so that
is what my kids are used to. So, naturally I would assume that if there
was a request for both pie and icecream, that they had a good reason.
Pie a la mode perhaps! Perhaps it was your son's way of trying to make
it a healthier choice. Eating more fruit is good, if he was seeking out
a fruit pie with ice cream.

Pies are good! Pies can be good for you too, make some, they are
relatively easy, and it's not too late to go buy some while there's
still ice cream in the freezer!

Sometimes my kids don't want anything extra from the store, just the
normal stuff, sometimes they request grapefruits, that was the last
request at our house when asked. They've been eating a lot of
croissants and cinnamin rolls and muffins the last week or so, so we've
been buying that sort of stuff. They've done that before, and then when
they are tired of it, I will almost garauntee there will be some of it
left sitting on the shelf for a week or so, before I throw it out or
offer it to a guest. They will even say to please not buy anymore
cinnamin rolls or whatever, because they really are tired of them.

And sometimes, we really are going to the store with $20 and need
certain things, and they know not to ask for something huge or lots of
extra, or if they ask, they may already know that it's possible for the
answer to be "no, not on this trip to the store, but maybe in a few
days".

Jenny C

> I think that's a good idea, especially if it's REALLY carefully seen
> by the mom as a way to help her relax, and not a way to "make sure"
> he loses weight.
>


DDR has been AWESOME in this regard! It's fun and competitive, and turn
taking, or solo playing, and fun music listening to, and really really
good excercise!

I was thinking about Heelies too, something that can be worn all around
that's fun and different to move around with.

Pamela Sorooshian

On Nov 26, 2008, at 9:45 AM, Laureen wrote:

> We have the most messed-up attitudes about food, and people
> discuss "the French paradox" whereby the French eat all kinds of
> things we
> think of as "unhealthy" but don't have all the "effects" we do.
> They're
> beginning to figure out that eating with joy and pleasure seems to
> matter.

Eating with joy and pleasure and good conversation also means savoring
what you're eating, only eating things you really enjoy, and eating
small portions.

My weight loss depended on me knowing that I was never ever again
going to deprive myself of anything I wanted to eat. Given that, I
could freely decide what it was I actually DID want to eat and I could
freely enjoy eating it.

I gained back some weight after I reached my official "goal weight,"
probably a result of residual feelings like "Now I'm FREE" - so
apparently I hadn't completely internalized the idea that I was
already free. But after a few months of gaining, I started losing
again when I realized I'd stopped enjoying food. I once again reminded
myself to eat what I love, no more and no less. I spent a couple of
months eating a lot of sweets and then took stock and realized that I
enjoyed the sweets a whole lot more when I was more choosy about them.

Those childhood/teenagehood feelings of being limited and controlled
are strong in our heads - I'm not devastated that I regressed, I'm
glad I can recognize what's going on with me and that I know how to
recover.

-pam

Pamela Sorooshian

There is also a really good book written by a couple of MDs - "Let
them Eat Cake: the Case Against Controlling What Your Children Eat."
I've seen it, and bought it several times to give away. There are lots
of copies available used and very cheap - just barely more than the
shipping cost.

Here is a summary of the book:

Pediatrician Klenman and child psychiatrist Jellinek believe that too
many well-meaning parents take food and rules far too seriously for a
child's own good. While the food choices children make are sometimes
dreadful, parents should not act as food police. Instead, all would do
well to place food choices in proper perspective: children are not
middle-aged people, their nutritional needs are different from
adults', food is (usually) not a life-and-death issue for them, and
one or two not so nutritious meals will not hurt them. Therefore,
suggest the authors, kids shouldn't worry about cholesterol or feel
guilty because they enjoy a candy bar. Although some parents may
believe otherwise, these doctors declare studies have shown that
banning sweets is counterproductive. Children, they say, should be
offered choices and encouraged to try new foods. This is a sensible,
well-written and unhysterical approach to what some may consider a
parental nightmare: children who have minds of their own when it comes
to food. In addition to questions most often asked by parents, the
authors also provide in-depth discussion of food safety, food
allergies and eating disorders.

-pam

On Nov 26, 2008, at 10:25 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:

>
> During that time, maybe read all this:
>
> http://sandradodd.com/food
>
> And maybe read it all (and there's a lot of it) again in a month or
> so. It can't hurt. Every moment you spend reading there and the
> links from those, you're not pressuring or watching or measuring or
> worrying your child, and the less you look at him and think about
> food, the less he'll think about food too.



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