Potty without the training
[email protected]
I know this is old hat to so many of you, but Dave and are were surprised
today to realize that it has been a week since we've used a diaper.
Wyl (9) was not so much potty "trained" as potty "encouraged". We brought
the idea to him, made positive comments when he used the toilet, and really
focussed a lot on it right around when he was 4. My mother "annoyingly" made a
huge to do about reward stickers at her house and used The Poodle Voice of
Parental Approval. Dave and I rolled our eyes at this, but just let it slide. We
figured he'd get it and we didn't want to push it and cause problems. We
didn't realize at the time that we were pushing our agenda-even ever so
slightly, but we do now. Wyl still had slip-ups now and then after he was "mostly
potty trained" but ended up getting a bladder infection that came to a head when
he was at my mother's house without his parents and had an accident on her
(relatively) new couch. She berated him and yelled at him. Yeah, a
potty-training 4 year old. He never had an accident after that and I still wonder how
much he's internalized about that incident.
Storm is 5 1/2 years younger than Wyl (he'll be turning 4 this month) and
we've had 5 1/2 years more experience on our unschooling path, so Storm has
gotten pretty much the full unschool experience. Except for a slip here and
there where Dave or I would mention what he could do if he wasn't wearing a
diaper, we did no "training". When he started showing an interest in the toilet
and other family member's "goings on", we answered his questions and let him
look. We showed him the "kid potty" we had bought when Wyl was 3 and left it
out on the floor where he could look if he wanted, sit on it with the lid
closed or open, use it as a table, or ignore it. There was a lot of ignoring. It
gathered dust. He enjoyed tearing off toilet paper and dropping it in the
toilet and watching it a moment, then flushing. Flushing is pretty fun,
apparently! Every once in a while, I'd start getting edgy about "wasting water" and
I'd catch myself, *breathe* and relax. He got really interested in putting the
end of the roll of toilet paper into the bowl and flushing and watching the
ribbon unfurl from the 1000 sheet roll of T.P. and swirl down into that
mysterious place where water goes when you flush. I attempted once or twice to
explain about frugal paper usage, but ended up saving the last bits of the roll
for our dispenser, while the rest of us who used "just what we needed" used the
plain roll out of the drawer. That worked really well, and as time has
passed and he had the opportunity to use T.P. out in public where there are
serrated-edged T.P. cutters, he was very good about taking what he needed, so I
increased the amount of what I left on the roll for the dispenser. We really
need to find a cutter for ours... it is just too hard to tear it from where its
at, all open with no cover. Especially for someone that needs one or two
hands to hold himself up on the seat to keep from falling in! He started with a
smaller seat that fits on the big seat and used that for a while, but he wants
to be like everyone else, so he won't use it any more.
He'd go through phases where he got really interested in going or being near
the toilet, then nothing to do with it for a while. Dave and I knew it would
come, eventually. We weren't concerned in the least. He used toilets a *lot*
at the Live and Learn conference. Shortly before we left, he got interested
in the small potty again-which was fortuitus, since that was our "bathroom on
the go" for the trip. He'd get very upset if I hadn't emptied the potty in
what he perceived as the right amount of time.
When we got back from the conference, and while we healed from being sick,
he did a lot of diapers, but once he felt better, he peed almost exclusively
in the toilet, though he still used diapers for more solid matters. This past
week, we've been either requested for "company" in the bathroom when he's had
to go, been "paged" that he needed wiped, or (I have no idea how he does
this, but we definitely try to avoid it!) he'll come downstairs with his pants
around his ankles and request help wiping!
A few times in the learning process, he's gotten his pants wet. We've not
made a big deal out of it other than to get him into dry clothes so he doesn't
have to have urine against his skin-just like we would for a diaper leak. He
went upstairs by himself the other day and came down with his shorts and
underwear in his hand and said very calmly and unconcerned, "These are wet, Mama.
I peed on them." As I set aside the wet ones and got him dry clothes to put
on, it occurred to me to ask Dave, "How long has it been since *you* changed
a diaper?"
Well, what do you know? It's been at least a week! It happened so naturally
and so much in the rhythm of our daily lives, it wasn't some much-heralded
milestone. I mean it *is*, in a way, but so different from Wyl's journey. No
calling anyone to spread the word for all to know, no Grandmas or Aunts
claiming "You're a BIG boy, NOW." Just a side note to the day; Wyl found a new area
in his video game, Storm isn't using diapers any more, I got those too-small
clothes organized and put away. Just another little nuance in our lives that
makes today a bit different from yesterday. The event is that we're astounded
the end of diapers isn't an event!
So, I thought I'd share.
Peace,
De
My mother's and my Etsy store: _http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=5967084_
(http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=5967084)
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
today to realize that it has been a week since we've used a diaper.
Wyl (9) was not so much potty "trained" as potty "encouraged". We brought
the idea to him, made positive comments when he used the toilet, and really
focussed a lot on it right around when he was 4. My mother "annoyingly" made a
huge to do about reward stickers at her house and used The Poodle Voice of
Parental Approval. Dave and I rolled our eyes at this, but just let it slide. We
figured he'd get it and we didn't want to push it and cause problems. We
didn't realize at the time that we were pushing our agenda-even ever so
slightly, but we do now. Wyl still had slip-ups now and then after he was "mostly
potty trained" but ended up getting a bladder infection that came to a head when
he was at my mother's house without his parents and had an accident on her
(relatively) new couch. She berated him and yelled at him. Yeah, a
potty-training 4 year old. He never had an accident after that and I still wonder how
much he's internalized about that incident.
Storm is 5 1/2 years younger than Wyl (he'll be turning 4 this month) and
we've had 5 1/2 years more experience on our unschooling path, so Storm has
gotten pretty much the full unschool experience. Except for a slip here and
there where Dave or I would mention what he could do if he wasn't wearing a
diaper, we did no "training". When he started showing an interest in the toilet
and other family member's "goings on", we answered his questions and let him
look. We showed him the "kid potty" we had bought when Wyl was 3 and left it
out on the floor where he could look if he wanted, sit on it with the lid
closed or open, use it as a table, or ignore it. There was a lot of ignoring. It
gathered dust. He enjoyed tearing off toilet paper and dropping it in the
toilet and watching it a moment, then flushing. Flushing is pretty fun,
apparently! Every once in a while, I'd start getting edgy about "wasting water" and
I'd catch myself, *breathe* and relax. He got really interested in putting the
end of the roll of toilet paper into the bowl and flushing and watching the
ribbon unfurl from the 1000 sheet roll of T.P. and swirl down into that
mysterious place where water goes when you flush. I attempted once or twice to
explain about frugal paper usage, but ended up saving the last bits of the roll
for our dispenser, while the rest of us who used "just what we needed" used the
plain roll out of the drawer. That worked really well, and as time has
passed and he had the opportunity to use T.P. out in public where there are
serrated-edged T.P. cutters, he was very good about taking what he needed, so I
increased the amount of what I left on the roll for the dispenser. We really
need to find a cutter for ours... it is just too hard to tear it from where its
at, all open with no cover. Especially for someone that needs one or two
hands to hold himself up on the seat to keep from falling in! He started with a
smaller seat that fits on the big seat and used that for a while, but he wants
to be like everyone else, so he won't use it any more.
He'd go through phases where he got really interested in going or being near
the toilet, then nothing to do with it for a while. Dave and I knew it would
come, eventually. We weren't concerned in the least. He used toilets a *lot*
at the Live and Learn conference. Shortly before we left, he got interested
in the small potty again-which was fortuitus, since that was our "bathroom on
the go" for the trip. He'd get very upset if I hadn't emptied the potty in
what he perceived as the right amount of time.
When we got back from the conference, and while we healed from being sick,
he did a lot of diapers, but once he felt better, he peed almost exclusively
in the toilet, though he still used diapers for more solid matters. This past
week, we've been either requested for "company" in the bathroom when he's had
to go, been "paged" that he needed wiped, or (I have no idea how he does
this, but we definitely try to avoid it!) he'll come downstairs with his pants
around his ankles and request help wiping!
A few times in the learning process, he's gotten his pants wet. We've not
made a big deal out of it other than to get him into dry clothes so he doesn't
have to have urine against his skin-just like we would for a diaper leak. He
went upstairs by himself the other day and came down with his shorts and
underwear in his hand and said very calmly and unconcerned, "These are wet, Mama.
I peed on them." As I set aside the wet ones and got him dry clothes to put
on, it occurred to me to ask Dave, "How long has it been since *you* changed
a diaper?"
Well, what do you know? It's been at least a week! It happened so naturally
and so much in the rhythm of our daily lives, it wasn't some much-heralded
milestone. I mean it *is*, in a way, but so different from Wyl's journey. No
calling anyone to spread the word for all to know, no Grandmas or Aunts
claiming "You're a BIG boy, NOW." Just a side note to the day; Wyl found a new area
in his video game, Storm isn't using diapers any more, I got those too-small
clothes organized and put away. Just another little nuance in our lives that
makes today a bit different from yesterday. The event is that we're astounded
the end of diapers isn't an event!
So, I thought I'd share.
Peace,
De
My mother's and my Etsy store: _http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=5967084_
(http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=5967084)
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-The Poodle Voice of Parental Approval-=-
That just bears repeating. The Poodle Voice of Parental Approval.
I love the capitalization. It makes it so big and sonorous. Like
the big voice of a dead-serious narrator introducing some baby-
talking sing-song communication that expresses much more than the
words themselves.
For talking to babies, sweet sing-song mom voices are fine. It's sad
to hear someone "training" a child not to be a baby by speaking to
him as though he were in a graduate seminar.
Balance. Mindfulness. Treat them like people, like friends, like
guests.
This is very interesting:
-=-Wyl found a new area
in his video game, Storm isn't using diapers any more, I got those
too-small
clothes organized and put away. Just another little nuance in our
lives that
makes today a bit different from yesterday. The event is that we're
astounded
the end of diapers isn't an event!-=-
How sweet for Storm and your family.
Because it made me think of hand pumps and siphons, but that quite
changes the subject, I'm going to post something separately, but it's
inspired by Storm's transition.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That just bears repeating. The Poodle Voice of Parental Approval.
I love the capitalization. It makes it so big and sonorous. Like
the big voice of a dead-serious narrator introducing some baby-
talking sing-song communication that expresses much more than the
words themselves.
For talking to babies, sweet sing-song mom voices are fine. It's sad
to hear someone "training" a child not to be a baby by speaking to
him as though he were in a graduate seminar.
Balance. Mindfulness. Treat them like people, like friends, like
guests.
This is very interesting:
-=-Wyl found a new area
in his video game, Storm isn't using diapers any more, I got those
too-small
clothes organized and put away. Just another little nuance in our
lives that
makes today a bit different from yesterday. The event is that we're
astounded
the end of diapers isn't an event!-=-
How sweet for Storm and your family.
Because it made me think of hand pumps and siphons, but that quite
changes the subject, I'm going to post something separately, but it's
inspired by Storm's transition.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sally
-- Just a side note to the day; Wyl found a new area in his video
game, Storm isn't using diapers any more, I got those too-small
clothes organized and put away. Just another little nuance in our
lives that makes today a bit different from yesterday. The event is
that we're astounded the end of diapers isn't an event!--
Yay for your family!
Another potty-related success story, more my own parenting success
than anything:
Will just turned 3 and we've been talking a lot about the potty. He
does not want to wear diapers, but he doesn't really like using the
potty either. Most of the time, he will run away from me while I am
changing his diaper and I will feel too tired to chase him and just
let him run naked. Next thing I know there's a puddle on the
carpet. This morning I had an AHA! moment. When I stripped off the
night diaper, I almost said, "You have two choices: diaper or
potty." Then I remembered that there are always more choices. I
asked him hesitantly if he'd like to pee in the bathtub. "Yeah!" he
said excitedly. I helped him stand on the edge of the tub and aim. I
let him know he is welcome to pee in the bathtub, the bathroom sink,
outside in the backyard, in the potty, in a diaper, or someplace else
if he approves it with me first, just definitely not on the carpet,
the bed, or the furniture. For now, I think it will work. If not,
I'll think of more choices.
Sally
game, Storm isn't using diapers any more, I got those too-small
clothes organized and put away. Just another little nuance in our
lives that makes today a bit different from yesterday. The event is
that we're astounded the end of diapers isn't an event!--
Yay for your family!
Another potty-related success story, more my own parenting success
than anything:
Will just turned 3 and we've been talking a lot about the potty. He
does not want to wear diapers, but he doesn't really like using the
potty either. Most of the time, he will run away from me while I am
changing his diaper and I will feel too tired to chase him and just
let him run naked. Next thing I know there's a puddle on the
carpet. This morning I had an AHA! moment. When I stripped off the
night diaper, I almost said, "You have two choices: diaper or
potty." Then I remembered that there are always more choices. I
asked him hesitantly if he'd like to pee in the bathtub. "Yeah!" he
said excitedly. I helped him stand on the edge of the tub and aim. I
let him know he is welcome to pee in the bathtub, the bathroom sink,
outside in the backyard, in the potty, in a diaper, or someplace else
if he approves it with me first, just definitely not on the carpet,
the bed, or the furniture. For now, I think it will work. If not,
I'll think of more choices.
Sally
Susan Reeve
I'll never forget the time, that I had to pick my daughter up at high
school. I pulled up in front of the school, and my 3 year old was standing
on the lawn facing the long row of classroom windows. We could see the
curious faces of children looking out. I turned around to get the baby out
of the carseat.
I turned back to see the 3 year old peeing in a 4 foot arc perfectly
parallel to the windows so that the now laughing high school students could
appreciate the majesty of it all. There was nothing I could do - he peed and
peed and peed. I was mortified.
Later my daughter, who has been waiting for us in the office said that her
classmates told her all about her little brother.
LOL
school. I pulled up in front of the school, and my 3 year old was standing
on the lawn facing the long row of classroom windows. We could see the
curious faces of children looking out. I turned around to get the baby out
of the carseat.
I turned back to see the 3 year old peeing in a 4 foot arc perfectly
parallel to the windows so that the now laughing high school students could
appreciate the majesty of it all. There was nothing I could do - he peed and
peed and peed. I was mortified.
Later my daughter, who has been waiting for us in the office said that her
classmates told her all about her little brother.
LOL
Sandra Dodd
-=-I
let him know he is welcome to pee in the bathtub, the bathroom sink,
outside in the backyard, in the potty, in a diaper, or someplace else
if he approves it with me first, just definitely not on the carpet,
the bed, or the furniture. For now, I think it will work. If not,
I'll think of more choices. -=-
You might mention that it's a limited-time offer because he's little,
and it's limited to your house.
Although my husband still occasionally pees in the yard, and if it
were legal I'd be interested in putting people-poo in dirt to make
garden soil better, there are laws and cultural taboos and he needs
to not pee in grandma's back yard or in someone else's bathtub.
A friend of ours really wanted to get her young daughter trained to
"go" somewhere besides just the potty, because they were going
camping. So the practiced in the back yard, and it was a go. Then
they visted grandma, and daughter took a dump on the patio. Ooopsy.
Holly could NOT go in a porta potty when she was little, nor in an
outhouse. We didn't know. We were camping in the mountains and she
was too little to squat and too afraid to sit on a non-standard non-
flush toilet. We had to let her sit on the edge of a salad bowl and
then dump it later. Luckily, we had already eaten the salad.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
let him know he is welcome to pee in the bathtub, the bathroom sink,
outside in the backyard, in the potty, in a diaper, or someplace else
if he approves it with me first, just definitely not on the carpet,
the bed, or the furniture. For now, I think it will work. If not,
I'll think of more choices. -=-
You might mention that it's a limited-time offer because he's little,
and it's limited to your house.
Although my husband still occasionally pees in the yard, and if it
were legal I'd be interested in putting people-poo in dirt to make
garden soil better, there are laws and cultural taboos and he needs
to not pee in grandma's back yard or in someone else's bathtub.
A friend of ours really wanted to get her young daughter trained to
"go" somewhere besides just the potty, because they were going
camping. So the practiced in the back yard, and it was a go. Then
they visted grandma, and daughter took a dump on the patio. Ooopsy.
Holly could NOT go in a porta potty when she was little, nor in an
outhouse. We didn't know. We were camping in the mountains and she
was too little to squat and too afraid to sit on a non-standard non-
flush toilet. We had to let her sit on the edge of a salad bowl and
then dump it later. Luckily, we had already eaten the salad.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I turned back to see the 3 year old peeing in a 4 foot arc perfectly
parallel to the windows so that the now laughing high school students
could
appreciate the majesty of it all. There was nothing I could do - he
peed and
peed and peed. I was mortified.-=-
I would bet real money that for some of them it will be the most
memorable thing of that school year.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
parallel to the windows so that the now laughing high school students
could
appreciate the majesty of it all. There was nothing I could do - he
peed and
peed and peed. I was mortified.-=-
I would bet real money that for some of them it will be the most
memorable thing of that school year.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
harmonyhogan
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
if it
> were legal I'd be interested in putting people-poo in dirt to make
> garden soil better,
There are a lot of places where this is legal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composting_toilet
State laws for composting toilets
http://www.weblife.org/humanure/appendix3.html#in
They run about $2000-3000 but that is cheaper than installing plumbing
and hooking up to a sewer or septic tank.
Harmony
Sandra Dodd
-=-There are a lot of places where this is legal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composting_toilet
State laws for composting toilets
http://www.weblife.org/humanure/appendix3.html#in
They run about $2000-3000 but that is cheaper than installing plumbing
and hooking up to a sewer or septic tank.-=-
You're right! We have friends who built a straw bale house in the
1970s near Glorieta, New Mexico, and they had an indoor composting
toilet (it went down to a collection place behind and outside). And
there are some rest areas off the interstate (I don't remember if
they were in New Mexico or where, but somewhere in the SW) with
composting toilets. Neither of those were in cities, though.
I was thinking more the direct-deposit along the rows that has been
traditional in some other parts of the world. I'm pretty sure if
Albuquerque wants dog poop picked up, they'd want people poop picked
up too. Then again, with trees so few and far between along the
highways, there are some, uh.... toilets of a sort where when you go
behind that one little set of bushes to do your bizness, you see
toilet paper and other evidence that you're not the first who noticed
there might not be another place to hide for another 20 miles.
Again, not in a city, those spots.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composting_toilet
State laws for composting toilets
http://www.weblife.org/humanure/appendix3.html#in
They run about $2000-3000 but that is cheaper than installing plumbing
and hooking up to a sewer or septic tank.-=-
You're right! We have friends who built a straw bale house in the
1970s near Glorieta, New Mexico, and they had an indoor composting
toilet (it went down to a collection place behind and outside). And
there are some rest areas off the interstate (I don't remember if
they were in New Mexico or where, but somewhere in the SW) with
composting toilets. Neither of those were in cities, though.
I was thinking more the direct-deposit along the rows that has been
traditional in some other parts of the world. I'm pretty sure if
Albuquerque wants dog poop picked up, they'd want people poop picked
up too. Then again, with trees so few and far between along the
highways, there are some, uh.... toilets of a sort where when you go
behind that one little set of bushes to do your bizness, you see
toilet paper and other evidence that you're not the first who noticed
there might not be another place to hide for another 20 miles.
Again, not in a city, those spots.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]