Elaine Green

This is the year that I want to shift from our long-time homeschooling style (eclectic --- primarily determined by me with input from kids, scheduled table time, but not textbook dominated, lots of me reading aloud) towards more of an unschooling approach. I have four daughters, ages 15, 13, 12, 11.....plus four grown children ranging from 21 to 30 who were all homeschooled, two all the time and two for a few years. Because homeschooling in an eclectic style has been what has gone on in our lives since we took our oldest out of school in 1988, I am, shall we put it mildly, somewhat stuck in my ways and we have a definite pattern of life. All of these girls were adopted internationally at various ages, and they've had some issues to work on in terms of adjusting to our family. They're doing great in terms of attachment. One has developmental delays and one has a congenital medical issue. The other two are healthy and on target developmentally.

If I can pull myself to truly make the shift away from formal table time, how would you recommend I approach this with the girls? We are currently spending the summer at our cottage in Canada, where we are on a definite vacation schedule (for us). Three of the girls are still engaged in finishing their Saxon math books. I am reading history non-fiction several days a week, as well as an evening read aloud of novels. The girls read several hours each day. They bike, play in the lake, play some computer games, and watch a very little bit of tv. We return to our Montana home at the beginning of September, and the assumption is that we'll get back in gear, with the regular structure. That has been that I read fiction for about an hour after breakfast, the girls do table work until lunch with my being available to help them with anything. They use a textbook for math and a grammar text or workbook. They have history and science books (that I selected) to read individually. After lunch I typically read science and/or history, or we watch a video (again, my selection). The girls take dance almost every day during the week. The ballet studio is BIG in their lives. We also all take knitting classes once a week which have now become more of help for their projects with two ladies in a lovely knitting shop. We go to the library once a week, and three of the girls carry out a stack of fiction. The other girl says she never finds anything she likes, although she reads heavily from our home library.

I know that if I didn't schedule anything, life would seem much like it is this summer, which the girls all describe as "vacation." They would still read lots, although I'm not sure if they would willingly make a switch to reading non-fiction because they've relied on me for that. I don't know if I should make some kind of announcement, along the lines of "Let's just keep doing what we're doing this summer," or whether I should just not say anything and simply not schedule things as I have been doing.

I should add that the girls feel considerable pressure from all of their "schooled" friends. They keep getting told all the same things that the older kids were told ---- "You'll never go to college if you homeschool" ---- even though their older, always homeschooled sister is in her final year at Smith College and their older, always homeschooled, brother went to a four year state college (Evergreen in Olympia, WA) without any problems. When I've t;ried to wean myself away from the schedule before, the girls have told me they prefer having a weekly list of things to accomplish.

It's obvious to me that they are relying on me for structure, that they are relying on me to provide too much in the form of assigned reading and read aloud selections. I have no problem with the read aloud. To me, it's been great and I absolutely love that time of our day. But I am bugged that they aren't finding their own interests, and yet I recognize that I created this by the schedule I have imposed. They all have come to depend on that schedule too much. I would love it if our lives could continue as they have during the summer, with some artificially imposed structure (dance times, knitting classes, library trips), but I would love it if the girls would find their own interests to pursue, other than reading fiction.

So, what's the recommendation for how a long-time homeschooling family can make the shift to becoming unschoolers? Do I talk to the kids about what I am thinking? Do I move back to our house in September and just not schedule table time and plan a structured program of books for the girls to read on various non-fiction topics?

Thrown into all this mix is that our fifteen year old is developmentally delayed. If she were in school she would clearly be labeled borderline retarded. She has a tremendous language processing disorder that is complicated by the fundamental developmental delay. We adopted her (and her sisters) from China, and we have no medical history on the girls. We strongly suspect that our 15 year old may have neurological problems stemming from either an accident or birth injury, or it is also possible that she may have fetal alcohol issues. Whatever, the therapists we've consulted have told us that it really doesn't matter what caused the developmental delays, we would be doing the same thing. The recommendation we've received has been to review, review, review. She can't handle money or tell time. She reads fairly well, but comprehension is absent. She can't retell a story to save her life. She is very aware of her learning difficulties, and she compensates by being very social and funny, but it is hard to be a 15 year old who clearly can't do some fundamentals. I also have to limit her computer access because of her lack of judgment in terms of communicating with people in chat rooms. She was getting online in the middle of the night, so we put a password on the computer to keep her off at night. If she were of something remotely close to normal intelligence, I wouldn't have been as worried, but she is in many ways a perfect candidate for victimization. I don't have any confidence that if I don't schedule work with her that she would be able to make any progress in the fundamentals (time, money).

Any thoughts,


Elaine in Montana

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn L. Coburn

Why do you want to unschool, Elaine? You've told us lots, except that.

Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com

Sandra Dodd

-=-They bike, play in the lake, play some computer games, and watch a
very little bit of tv. -=-

Do you watch movies with them? Would they like to watch more TV?
Are they all doing these things together, as a group?

Maybe when you get home you could say you want to wait a while before
doing school stuff. Maybe find things to do like cooking things you
haven't made before, or starting a hobby besides knitting (in
addition to).

Maybe do things just enough differently that you kind of wean
yourself and them from the schedule or the expectations. Saying "The
whole deal's off" might scare them. Perhaps you could read,
occasionally, things you find on unschooling sites. Read aloud just
something from Joyce's page, maybe, or something some of the teens
have written.
http://sandradodd.com/teen
http://sandradodd.com/teens

-=-I know that if I didn't schedule anything, life would seem much
like it is this summer, which the girls all describe as "vacation."
They would still read lots, although I'm not sure if they would
willingly make a switch to reading non-fiction because they've relied
on me for that. -=-

Do they like vacation? It won't matter if they don't read non-
fiction for fun. You could keep reading, only don't require them all
to listen maybe. Some might want to and some might not.

-=-When I've t;ried to wean myself away from the schedule before, the
girls have told me they prefer having a weekly list of things to
accomplish. -=-

Okay. Just edge the list toward less academic things, maybe.

-=-I would love it if our lives could continue as they have during
the summer, with some artificially imposed structure (dance times,
knitting classes, library trips), but I would love it if the girls
would find their own interests to pursue, other than reading fiction.
-=-

Those aren't artificially imposed. They're real (except the library,
which could be more flexible).

Don't criticize or discourage their reading.

-=-The recommendation we've received has been to review, review,
review. She can't handle money or tell time. She reads fairly well,
but comprehension is absent. She can't retell a story to save her
life-=-

Then that's not really reading, but no matter. Can she read street
signs and menus?

Unschooling works the same way for all kids. If you're not on an
assembly line or a schedule, there's no "behind" or "ahead."

-=-I don't have any confidence that if I don't schedule work with her
that she would be able to make any progress in the fundamentals
(time, money).-=-

So? If she can't get it, she can't get it. Do things she CAN
understand and enjoy, and if she never understands time and money
ever, she woudn't have with you "scheduling work with her" either.
She'll probably catch on later, when she has a need to and something
has interested her about it.


http://sandradodd.com/checklists
That might help.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

>>>>>>She reads fairly well, but comprehension is absent. She can't retell a
story to save her life-=-<<<<<<<

First things first. You can divvy up everything and compartmentalize your
children's learning to fit academic modes, so that you talk about reading
and comprehension. You can unschool. You can't do both.

Not only is comprehension not retelling a story (as Sandra said) but
comprehension is not reading. It's like logic, which in some people might
not develop a great deal and in others may develop quite a bit. The brain
doesn't fully develop for logic type things until after high school in many
children.

I got the "bad at comprehension" thing all through high school, and am still
not good at telling stories aloud because I've been criticized enough times
in school and elsewhere that I never found a venue for getting good at it.
Which is a dirty rotten shame, as I am nuts about stories. I make a
fabulous audience for just about anyone's story... I'm a sucker for those.
Don't ask me to tell one (except in writing) though I might occasionally get
brave enough to volunteer a few comments.

"Comprehension is absent." Ugh. That's real close to saying someone is
stupid. How do you know there's no comprehension? Maybe you don't have the
same interpretation of the stuff she's reading. ???!!! Is it your
opinion? Or are you repeating someone else's opinion?

I said I'm a sucker for almost anyone's story. For really really long long
posts-- not so much. I apologize for that. I wish I had it in me to read
as incessantly as people write in a single post. I used to write the same
way until I realized how hard it is to wade through lengthy massive posts.

~Katherine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Not only is comprehension not retelling a story (as Sandra said) but
comprehension is not reading.-=-



I don't know what I said, but I think "reading" without comprehension
isn't reading at all. If sounding out words in a string is reading,
then I can read French and Spanish, and Latin (badly) and German
(like crap). I would screw up the Spanish verb tenses, so I take it
back; I can't read Spanish. But I can read French! If I can read
from a book, aloud, in French, for an hour, but at the end I can't
tell the story, was I reading?

-=-"Comprehension is absent." Ugh. That's real close to saying
someone is stupid. How do you know there's no comprehension? Maybe
you don't have the same interpretation of the stuff she's
reading. ???!!! Is it your opinion? Or are you repeating someone
else's opinion?-=-

I'm guessing the kid can sound out words.

If I were "literate" (had letters) and I had a travelling buddy who
knew French but couldn't read, and if I didn't speak it but could
sound out words, maybe between the two of us we could decipher some
menus or street signs or a newspaper.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

What I was referring to was the fact that in school, reading was one thing
and comprehension was another aspect that we got graded on. In unschooling,
in *life*, the two go together and grow together at the same time.

Why did the original poster say her child can read but not comprehend it?
Maybe the child can sound out letters but not make out the sense.

Was all that reading comprehension mark down about not making out the sense
of all the books I was sounding out the letters to?

That stuff gets separated out in school and parents worry about it at home
then they take their children out to homeschool them.

~Katherine, not the original hairsplitter .... I swear.




>>>>>On 9/27/08, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

> -=-Not only is comprehension not retelling a story (as Sandra said) but
> comprehension is not reading.-=-
>
> I don't know what I said, but I think "reading" without comprehension
> isn't reading at all. If sounding out words in a string is reading,
> then I can read French and Spanish, and Latin (badly) and German
> (like crap). I would screw up the Spanish verb tenses, so I take it
> back; I can't read Spanish. But I can read French! If I can read
> from a book, aloud, in French, for an hour, but at the end I can't
> tell the story, was I reading?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Was all that reading comprehension mark down about not making out
the sense
of all the books I was sounding out the letters to?-=

Yes.

So that's worth remembering, too, when relatives seem appalled that a
child "isn't reading" at the age of eight, or whatever. Many school-
kids aren't either, though they may be making good marks in "reading"
because they're circling the right word or copying out the right
sentence or reciting the same few lines other kids just recited, or
phonetically sounding out a pre-chosen set of words designed to be
words they can sound out with the sounds they've just "learned."

Beginning readers' books aren't real English in the wild. They're
practice books for phonics lessons, very often.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Sep 27, 2008, at 9:57 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:

> but I think "reading" without comprehension
> isn't reading at all.

There are levels of comprehension. I might read a Spanish passage
and understand a few words and guess at some others and that would be
some low level comprehension. I might read Hunchback of Notre Dame
and follow the story but miss layers of meaning.

That's all internal. If someone isn't comprehending -- getting
*something* -- from what they read, then they choose to not read. Not
so in schools, though. Kids are made to "read". Then they're tested
to see if they "comprehended". But the internal comprehension and
external (tested) comprehension aren't the same creature.

When a mom or teacher says a child isn't comprehending -- as was
stated in the post -- how do they know? They judge by asking
questions that draw on what someone "should" remember from the
passage. What if, as the child dutifully sounded out words, she tuned
in to the parts she liked and the questions weren't about that? If
someone asked me to list the main characters of a book I just
finished I'd fail "comprehension" miserably ;-)

Is "lack of comprehension" as schools assess it, really an indication
of how well a child is able to tune out what doesn't interest her?
How many unschooled kids never pick up a book to read for pleasure
until they discover some author of adult books? If they'd been asked
to read passages about apples and wheelbarrows before that, would
they have failed comprehension tests? Kat took the SAT last year and
I went through some practice tests with her to give her some
strategies and the hardest part was paying attention to some of the
reading passages! ;-) (Though, I will give the test makers credit in
that some of them were interesting.)

So, as you say, there is no reading without comprehension. And
unschooled kids choose not to read when they aren't yet
comprehending. If an unschooled child is sitting reading a book they
*are* comprehending on some level, otherwise why would they waste
their time? (Though not all "not reading" is "not comprehending".
Some kids have other things they'd rather do with their time! ;-) But
in school kids can't choose to not read. They can't choose what they
read. They're being made to read before they're ready to or want to
comprehend.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

Down below is something from the University of Rhode Island about
Reading Comprehension.
http://www.ed.uri.edu/tic2002/readlit2/comprehension/Definition%20and%
20Indicators.htm

While it's all stuff we naturally do while reading for personally
meaningful reasons, imagine being tested on it when made to read
something you have no interest in.

Some might argue that we'll eventually have to read things not for
pleasure, like reports for a job. But even if we might not pick
something up for pleasure, even if we'd rather drive nails through
our tongues than read Johnson's sleep inducing text ;-) we are
reading -- and comprehending -- for a purpose. We've chosen the job
and chosen the level of competence we want to perform it at. And we
*can* choose not to read Johnson's report! We can skim. We can hire
someone to write a summary. We can call up Johnson and ask him to
summarize it in one sentence ;-) It's only in reading class when
we're required to comprehend random text just for the sake of proving
to someone else we can comprehend.

Joyce

============

Text Comprehension: The ability to understand or get meaning from
text ( any type of written material). It is the reason for reading
and a critical component of all content learning.

* It is the thinking done before, during, and after reading.
(Fountas p.323) Comprehension is not something that happens after
reading.

* It is the interaction between the text being read and the
reader's existing prior knowledge and expectations will generate
meaning and comprehension (Leu and Kinzer, 1995).

If readers can read the words but do not understand what they are
reading, they are not really reading.


Indicators of Reading Comprehension

Students are able to construct meaning from text.

¨ Students are able to activate background knowledge before,
during and after
reading text.

¨ Students are able to monitor their own understanding of text,
identify what they do
not understand and are able to use appropriate (fix-up) strategies to
synthesize
what they read.

¨ Students are able to create visual and other sensory imagery
from text during and after
reading.

¨ Students identify and interpret vocabulary critical to the
meaning of the text.

¨ Students are able to generate questions to integrate
information from text.

¨ Students retell text orally and/or in written form.

¨ Students summarize text orally and/or in written form

¨ Students use graphic aids and illustrations.


Students are able to examine and extend the meaning of the text.

¨ Students respond to text in oral discussion and written form.

¨ Students make inferences from text.

¨ Students are able to compare complex concepts of text.

¨ Students can analyze the text structure and story elements.

Joyce Fetteroll

Did anyone happen to notice Elaine's message were from June and May?
They've been floating around the internet that long looking for their
destination?


On Jun 28, 2008, at 1:44 PM, Elaine Green wrote:

> I am, shall we put it mildly, somewhat stuck in my ways and we have
> a definite pattern of life.
>

I would go slowly. Not necessarily slowly in terms of unschooling,
but in terms of disrupting their lives. You don't want their
introduction to unschooling to be a feeling of chaos!

Continue to do similar things, but in a child chosen way. Instead of
reading for comprehension, or reading for any other purpose, read for
fun.

Instead of following a science book from beginning to end, leaf
through and find the experiments that look like fun.

Ease out of the idea that jumping through hoops will result in
learning and move towards the idea that interest is the key to learning.

> Three of the girls are still engaged in finishing their Saxon math
> books.
>

Depending on their personalities, I'd give them the choice on whether
to continue each day or not. But I'd also have better options
available. Some kids can absorb the idea as well as parents that they
can't learn unless they use a textbook. Taking away the textbook
might feel like "I don't care if you learn math or not."

Zoombinis is a great math game. Cooking. Video games. Puzzles. Board
games.
> I am reading history non-fiction several days a week, as well as an
> evening read aloud of novels.
>

Let them choose what they want to hear. But treat it as a family
together time rather than a necessity in their learning. If they want
to hear Stephen King's "The Shining" then that's what it should be :-)

You might reassure them that they can choose anything in the library.
Some kids can pick up that it's like an unspoken test to see how well
they've absorbed what they "should" be reading.
> The girls read several hours each day. They bike, play in the lake,
> play some computer games, and watch a very little bit of tv.
>

Self chosen to watch a little bit of TV?

You might want to read:

http://sandradodd.com/tv and
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com (down the right hand side is a section
on TV).
> That has been that I read fiction for about an hour after breakfast,
>

How about discussing a day's schedule? And discuss it again later to
see if it needs tweaked?
> the girls do table work until lunch with my being available to help
> them with anything.
>

How about crafts at the table?
> They use a textbook for math and a grammar text or workbook. They
> have history and science books (that I selected) to read individually.
>

How about puzzle books? Playing a game together?
> After lunch I typically read science and/or history, or we watch a
> video (again, my selection).
>

Lots of great TV shows (especially on cable) that are science.

You don't *need* to do that, but it might be a way not to feel you're
yanking the rug from beneath them. If a home goes from structure to
"Do anything you wish," it can end up being like a stampede.

It depends on personalities, of course.
> The girls take dance almost every day during the week. The ballet
> studio is BIG in their lives. We also all take knitting classes
> once a week which have now become more of help for their projects
> with two ladies in a lovely knitting shop. We go to the library
> once a week, and three of the girls carry out a stack of fiction.
> The other girl says she never finds anything she likes, although
> she reads heavily from our home library.
>
> I know that if I didn't schedule anything, life would seem much
> like it is this summer, which the girls all describe as "vacation."
>

Would feel like vacation to who? To you? To the girls? Would
permanent vacation be a bad thing?

Our Puritan roots says so! But if you look at the lives of long time
unschoolers, what people imagine will happen with permanent vacation
doesn't. Kids aren't vegging in front of the TV. We are natural
learning machines. We're naturally curious about life. What
interferes with that is school and being made to learn before we're
curious about something.
> They would still read lots, although I'm not sure if they would
> willingly make a switch to reading non-fiction because they've
> relied on me for that.
>

But you don't really know.

And would it be a bad thing?

Conventional wisdom says yes. But is someone who is made to be well
rounded a better person than someone who has the freedom to explore
what interests them?

If we project the "freedom to explore" onto schooled children,
parents know they'd never voluntarily do math or science or
literature or whatever the child hates. And they'd be right because
those subjects have been made cringeworthy by *school* forcing it on
them.

But in real life, there are parts of everything that will interest a
child. While my daughter isn't a science nut, she does enjoy sciencey
tv programs and science experiments. On her own she does a lot of
drawing and playing guitar and talking to friends, but because I
didn't make her learn science and I find something interesting, she's
happy to watch it with me.

> I don't know if I should make some kind of announcement, along the
> lines of "Let's just keep doing what we're doing this summer," or
> whether I should just not say anything and simply not schedule
> things as I have been doing.
>

Depends on their personalities.

If they had a choice, would they choose vacation or going back to a
schedule? Whatever, do that, and ease towards greater freedom to
explore.
> When I've t;ried to wean myself away from the schedule before, the
> girls have told me they prefer having a weekly list of things to
> accomplish.
>

Unschooling doesn't mean no schedule. Schedules help us accomplish
what we plan to do! :-)

What isn't conducive to unschooling is imposing a learning schedule
on kids.
> It's obvious to me that they are relying on me for structure, that
> they are relying on me to provide too much in the form of assigned
> reading and read aloud selections.
>

Start asking more. It's okay if they don't know at the beginning.
They've absorbed that there's a right way to learn and you asking
might feel like putting the burden of doing it right onto them.

But maybe some are more bold and will be happy to take up the freedom
to choose and can help ease the rest.

But I wouldn't expect them to structure their days. Limitations can
sometimes be freeing. When you can do anything you want anytime you
want, some people freeze up and don't know how to choose! Maybe help
them make lists of *fun* things they'd like to do and help them make
their own schedule to accomplish them.
> I have no problem with the read aloud. To me, it's been great and I
> absolutely love that time of our day. But I am bugged that they
> aren't finding their own interests, and yet I recognize that I
> created this by the schedule I have imposed. They all have come to
> depend on that schedule too much. I would love it if our lives
> could continue as they have during the summer, with some
> artificially imposed structure (dance times, knitting classes,
> library trips), but I would love it if the girls would find their
> own interests to pursue, other than reading fiction.
>

Expectations can be happiness killers. If they can't do it, they
can't. But be there to help them. Be their support. Help them start
lists of what they'd like to do and like to explore. And it's okay if
they drop them. They *should* be dabbling right now.
> So, what's the recommendation for how a long-time homeschooling
> family can make the shift to becoming unschoolers?
>

Rule of thumb is deschooling takes 1 month for each year of
schooling. Getting unschooling can happen easily or take longer.
> Do I talk to the kids about what I am thinking? Do I move back to
> our house in September and just not schedule table time and plan a
> structured program of books for the girls to read on various non-
> fiction topics?
>
I wouldn't announce anything but you could start talking about
unschooling as you would to a friend. And I think the less control
you have over what they do the better. I wouldn't require them to
read non-fiction at a particular time, but doing a science experiment
or cooking project or something after lunch (or whatever) might help
you maintain a variety of flow through their lives. If you see the
difference. You don't need to do science experiments, but if you have
a hard time not falling into a rut, being mindful of the variety of
things you can do, can help.

Ask for their input.
> The recommendation we've received has been to review, review,
> review. She can't handle money or tell time.
>

Apparently the review isn't working ;-)

It's often a recommendation, but most therapists are trying to get
kids onto a school schedule.

Regardless of delays, learning can't happen without interest. The
more variety of things she enjoys in life, the more likely she'll
come across something that will make time or money meaningful. So far
she hasn't.
> She can't retell a story to save her life.
>

Lots of people can't! It could be that even if she didn't have
issues, she might not be able to tell a story.

I think one of the unfortunate things about labels is that everything
gets filtered through that label. A friend of mine listed off a
number of things that her Asperger's child couldn't do. (She was,
perhaps unconsciously, using her younger daughter as a yard stick for
him.) But several of them were things my daughter couldn't do either
and she's perfectly "typical", things like being sent off to get
dressed on her own without getting distracted ;-)


Joyce

Robyn L. Coburn

<<<<> Did anyone happen to notice Elaine's message were from June and May?
> They've been floating around the internet that long looking for their
> destination?>>>>>

Is the date put on by the list server or one's own computer? Maybe her
computer's clock is out of whack?... if it is an older model? I didn't
notice until you mentioned it.

Does it mean she won't see the answers until after Christmas (g) ?

Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com

Sandra Dodd

-=-If an unschooled child is sitting reading a book they
*are* comprehending on some level, otherwise why would they waste
their time?-=-

Excellent point.

-=-But in school kids can't choose to not read. They can't choose
what they read. They're being made to read before they're ready to or
want to comprehend.-=-

They're being made to read (or made to sit and pretend to read) years
after they have hated books and schools so much that they either
fantasize shooting the place up or they go and get a gun and do it.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Did anyone happen to notice Elaine's message were from June and
May? -=-

June and May this year? <g>

We could choose something at random from ANY year past and discuss it
to the benefit of lots of people here.
I didn't notice, and I hope Elaine's done okay since the questions
were asked, but the answers are undoubtedly going to be helpful!

(Sometimes I've found an old e-mail in my drafts and gone ahead and
sent it.)

-=-Lots of great TV shows (especially on cable) that are science.-=-

And Youtube and other places on the internet.

For the history of science (and tons of cool connections to art,
architecture, music...) there are the Connections shows, all online now.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=JamesBurkeFan

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Sep 28, 2008, at 11:09 AM, Robyn L. Coburn wrote:

> Is the date put on by the list server or one's own computer? Maybe her
> computer's clock is out of whack?... if it is an older model? I didn't
> notice until you mentioned it.

Good question. But either way it's clear from her text she wasn't
writing right now. She said she was currently spending the summer in
Canada and would return to Montana at the beginning of September.

Joyce

Margaret

I remember it showing up as new mail recently. This wasn't something
that was unreplied to and sat in Sandra's drafts folder for months and
months and was alter sent, reviving the topic.

I'm guessing something went very wrong and yahoo lost the message.

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 2:31 AM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
> Good question. But either way it's clear from her text she wasn't
> writing right now. She said she was currently spending the summer in
> Canada and would return to Montana at the beginning of September.
>
> Joyce