teachable moments in the tub
Brad Holcomb
I hope this question isn't too subtle or nit-picky. It kinda feels that way
to me. This is something I've been thinking about for months, though, and I
pondered it a lot yesterday.
Where is the line where an interaction between parent and child crosses into
"teaching"? Does it just have to do with the motivation/agenda of the
parent in any given scenario? Or is there some other defining detail in the
exchange? And sorry this is so long.lacking personal clarity on this
subject, I'm using a lot of words.
Yesterday we were getting in our hot tub, my 3.5 year old son and I. He
loves playing in the hot tub so spends several hours a week in there. Even
through the summer, I kept it maintained with the temp about 99 or 100 so it
was still nice to be in there. Before getting in yesterday, I said, "let's
go down to the playroom in the basement and get some toys for the hot tub".
We looked around a bit, and one of the things I grabbed was a clear plastic
shoebox-sized storage container without lid. Initially I saw the box as a
potential boat to hold toys journeying on the ocean, and it could also be
attacked by toy dinos to capsize it, etc. Or it could just be an island in
the middle of the ocean.
Once in the tub, I discovered many other fun things to do with it, that I
hadn't been thinking about when I picked it up since I hadn't realized how
optically clear the box was. I was having fun playing with air and water,
for example holding the empty box on the surface and looking through the
bottom to clearly see under the water, like a glass-bottomed boat. Or
holding it under the water upside-down with about a golf-ball-sized air
bubble in it and rocking it around, kinda using the box as a "level" and
seeing if I could get the bubble to the exact middle of the smooth flat
upturned bottom (I couldn't.the bubble would split into pieces every time).
Another example: we also had a nalgene bottle in the tub, and I would hold
the clear plastic box, completely full of water, upside down under the
water, and it was pretty much neutrally buoyant, then I'd fill the nalgene
bottle with air and "empty" the air from the bottle, under water, into the
box, causing the box to float to the top.
As I was playing, I was sharing "facts" with my son. "See, if you go under
now, and blow air up into the submerged box, the air from your lungs gets
captured in the box. And now, if I flip the box over, your air bubbles will
finally come to the surface. But they've been trapped under the box for a
while." And he was playing right along, enjoying just floating the empty
box on the surface and holding his toys under the water, and seeing how
clear they looked, or saying "Daddy, ok to do that again?" and diving again
to exhale into the upturned box. None of it was un-fun, and at no time did
I tell him "do this".I was just passing time, sipping a beer and playing
with the "toys" in the tub, offering ideas for more fun. At no time did I
say, "no, do it *this* way".
But I kept pausing, feeling uncomfortably like I had crossed into taking
advantage of a "teachable moment". All the things we were doing were things
that anyone could discover on their own by playing with containers in the
water. I didn't have an agenda of "teach him this today, to build on
something tomorrow." I felt more like a good friend of mine who's very
savvy about many different topics because he's had many different jobs over
the years, ranging from general contractor building eco homes to chef to
living in a van on the interstate keeping big trucks running, who interjects
little factoids into any conversation, and I love it. I could just hear
him, sitting in the tub with us, saying, "if you hold the bottle, filled
with water, upside down and let the spa jets blow air bubbles into it until
all the water is displaced, you could submit that air sample for analysis
and they could tell you about the health of your pump" or something similar.
He doesn't do those things to be know-it-all.he's not out-of-touch or
over-the-top like Norm on Cheers with his "little-known facts". Plus I
wasn't getting that detailed with my son, and he wasn't offering resistance
to anything we were doing. So what I was doing felt like Strewing in many
ways, except there was lots of talking.not just putting the box in the tub
and letting play/discovery happen. And my son wasn't asking me for help
with it, nor was I interrupting his own play. He would see me doing
something, and hang on my shoulder watching for a bit, then want to join in.
And sometimes the exact thing I was doing in that moment didn't look very
interesting, so he would play with something totally different for a while
on the other side of the 8-person tub.
At one point I played with the nalgene bottle for a half-hour, by myself. I
was trying to make it exactly neutrally buoyant, with just the right size of
small air bubble, so the bottle would neither bob to the top nor bounce off
the bottom unless "thrown" that direction. Completely neutral (it was
harder than I thought it would be). My son wasn't even involved in that
because I don't think it looked too interesting to him.I was just loosening
the lid again and again, above water or under water, making tiny adjustments
to the ratio of air and water, over-correcting one direction and having to
start all over again.
To help me tease apart the subtleties of this topic, would anyone be willing
to give me a few different short specific "scripts" of how the scenario
could play out with the clear container and nalgene bottle in the tub,
ranging from "not teaching at all, just letting learning happen and being
there to facilitate" to "maybe teaching" to "definitely teaching so
potentially harmful"? Is learning always less valuable if it is "shown" to
a child, vs. letting them discover from their own experience as they
undoubtedly would at some point?
Thanks! -=b.
--
Brad in Boulder, CO
http://holcombs.org
to me. This is something I've been thinking about for months, though, and I
pondered it a lot yesterday.
Where is the line where an interaction between parent and child crosses into
"teaching"? Does it just have to do with the motivation/agenda of the
parent in any given scenario? Or is there some other defining detail in the
exchange? And sorry this is so long.lacking personal clarity on this
subject, I'm using a lot of words.
Yesterday we were getting in our hot tub, my 3.5 year old son and I. He
loves playing in the hot tub so spends several hours a week in there. Even
through the summer, I kept it maintained with the temp about 99 or 100 so it
was still nice to be in there. Before getting in yesterday, I said, "let's
go down to the playroom in the basement and get some toys for the hot tub".
We looked around a bit, and one of the things I grabbed was a clear plastic
shoebox-sized storage container without lid. Initially I saw the box as a
potential boat to hold toys journeying on the ocean, and it could also be
attacked by toy dinos to capsize it, etc. Or it could just be an island in
the middle of the ocean.
Once in the tub, I discovered many other fun things to do with it, that I
hadn't been thinking about when I picked it up since I hadn't realized how
optically clear the box was. I was having fun playing with air and water,
for example holding the empty box on the surface and looking through the
bottom to clearly see under the water, like a glass-bottomed boat. Or
holding it under the water upside-down with about a golf-ball-sized air
bubble in it and rocking it around, kinda using the box as a "level" and
seeing if I could get the bubble to the exact middle of the smooth flat
upturned bottom (I couldn't.the bubble would split into pieces every time).
Another example: we also had a nalgene bottle in the tub, and I would hold
the clear plastic box, completely full of water, upside down under the
water, and it was pretty much neutrally buoyant, then I'd fill the nalgene
bottle with air and "empty" the air from the bottle, under water, into the
box, causing the box to float to the top.
As I was playing, I was sharing "facts" with my son. "See, if you go under
now, and blow air up into the submerged box, the air from your lungs gets
captured in the box. And now, if I flip the box over, your air bubbles will
finally come to the surface. But they've been trapped under the box for a
while." And he was playing right along, enjoying just floating the empty
box on the surface and holding his toys under the water, and seeing how
clear they looked, or saying "Daddy, ok to do that again?" and diving again
to exhale into the upturned box. None of it was un-fun, and at no time did
I tell him "do this".I was just passing time, sipping a beer and playing
with the "toys" in the tub, offering ideas for more fun. At no time did I
say, "no, do it *this* way".
But I kept pausing, feeling uncomfortably like I had crossed into taking
advantage of a "teachable moment". All the things we were doing were things
that anyone could discover on their own by playing with containers in the
water. I didn't have an agenda of "teach him this today, to build on
something tomorrow." I felt more like a good friend of mine who's very
savvy about many different topics because he's had many different jobs over
the years, ranging from general contractor building eco homes to chef to
living in a van on the interstate keeping big trucks running, who interjects
little factoids into any conversation, and I love it. I could just hear
him, sitting in the tub with us, saying, "if you hold the bottle, filled
with water, upside down and let the spa jets blow air bubbles into it until
all the water is displaced, you could submit that air sample for analysis
and they could tell you about the health of your pump" or something similar.
He doesn't do those things to be know-it-all.he's not out-of-touch or
over-the-top like Norm on Cheers with his "little-known facts". Plus I
wasn't getting that detailed with my son, and he wasn't offering resistance
to anything we were doing. So what I was doing felt like Strewing in many
ways, except there was lots of talking.not just putting the box in the tub
and letting play/discovery happen. And my son wasn't asking me for help
with it, nor was I interrupting his own play. He would see me doing
something, and hang on my shoulder watching for a bit, then want to join in.
And sometimes the exact thing I was doing in that moment didn't look very
interesting, so he would play with something totally different for a while
on the other side of the 8-person tub.
At one point I played with the nalgene bottle for a half-hour, by myself. I
was trying to make it exactly neutrally buoyant, with just the right size of
small air bubble, so the bottle would neither bob to the top nor bounce off
the bottom unless "thrown" that direction. Completely neutral (it was
harder than I thought it would be). My son wasn't even involved in that
because I don't think it looked too interesting to him.I was just loosening
the lid again and again, above water or under water, making tiny adjustments
to the ratio of air and water, over-correcting one direction and having to
start all over again.
To help me tease apart the subtleties of this topic, would anyone be willing
to give me a few different short specific "scripts" of how the scenario
could play out with the clear container and nalgene bottle in the tub,
ranging from "not teaching at all, just letting learning happen and being
there to facilitate" to "maybe teaching" to "definitely teaching so
potentially harmful"? Is learning always less valuable if it is "shown" to
a child, vs. letting them discover from their own experience as they
undoubtedly would at some point?
Thanks! -=b.
--
Brad in Boulder, CO
http://holcombs.org
Sandra Dodd
-=-As I was playing, I was sharing "facts" with my son. -=-
That's probably the point where the question starts. You weren't
answering his questions, you were narrating a demonstration, it seems.
Sometimes that's fine, and I'm sure he'll play those things out later
with other toys, whether he remembers what you said or not.
-=-To help me tease apart the subtleties of this topic, would anyone
be willing
to give me a few different short specific "scripts" of how the scenario
could play out with the clear container and nalgene bottle in the tub,
ranging from "not teaching at all, just letting learning happen and
being
there to facilitate" to "maybe teaching" to "definitely teaching so
potentially harmful"?-=-
I think "So what did I say?" would be harmful, because you would turn
a conversation into a test. But you didn't do that.
-=-Is learning always less valuable if it is "shown" to a child, vs.
letting them discover from their own experience as they undoubtedly
would at some point?-=-
My first answer is "no" and my second answer is "sometimes" but you
asked "always."
I learned a lot of hydrodynamics from amusing myself in the sink when
I was made to do dishes when I was a kid. We had a percolator to
wash, so there was a tube and a strainer basket, both of which are
fun. I figured out all kinds of things to do with putting glasses
face down into the water. Water will overflow if it's near the top,
and it works the same whether you push the glass down butt-first or
head-first, so I figured out it was full of air. Nobody was there to
explain it to me and I just thought about it and kept playing. For
years. Still. <g> And I knew you could look for a knife in the
bottom of soapy water by putting a glass down in there as a viewer.
My mom did show me that one, and she showed me for fun.
I think if you share a fact and he seems interested or asks questions
you could share another one. But to decide in advance to share five
or ten regardless of his reaction isn't conversational or friendly.
It's teacherly, because you had a lesson plan.
-=-I hope this question isn't too subtle or nit-picky. It kinda feels
that way to me. -=-
For people who already have the broader understanding, ALL of their
learning happens at the subtle level. Bring out all the subtle
questions you want to!
-=-Where is the line where an interaction between parent and child
crosses into
"teaching"? Does it just have to do with the motivation/agenda of the
parent in any given scenario? Or is there some other defining detail
in the
exchange? And sorry this is so long.lacking personal clarity on this
subject, I'm using a lot of words.-=-
What has helped me is to rephrase any of my questions about teaching
and learning so that the verb was always "learning." Sometimes it
takes a fair amount of rearrangement, and sometimes it can't be
done. When it can't be done, just abandon the thought! (That's my
advice.)
Then, though, sometimes an older kid might ask you to explain long
division or something, and then you're in a different situation.
Holly asked me to show her (not to teach her how to do it), so I did
one real current problem (whatever it was we had been talking about)
and there was going to be a remainder/fraction, but I stopped there,
because she didn't need to know that, she needed to know how many of
whatever we had. She watched me to it and I explained as I went (but
as quickly as I was going, without stopping and looking to see if she
understood; she would've stopped me if she wanted me to slow down),
and I said "and some left over, and we could figure out exactly how
much, but..." and that was all. She was happy, I hadn't "done a
lesson" and she knows what it looks like. If she wants more she'll ask.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That's probably the point where the question starts. You weren't
answering his questions, you were narrating a demonstration, it seems.
Sometimes that's fine, and I'm sure he'll play those things out later
with other toys, whether he remembers what you said or not.
-=-To help me tease apart the subtleties of this topic, would anyone
be willing
to give me a few different short specific "scripts" of how the scenario
could play out with the clear container and nalgene bottle in the tub,
ranging from "not teaching at all, just letting learning happen and
being
there to facilitate" to "maybe teaching" to "definitely teaching so
potentially harmful"?-=-
I think "So what did I say?" would be harmful, because you would turn
a conversation into a test. But you didn't do that.
-=-Is learning always less valuable if it is "shown" to a child, vs.
letting them discover from their own experience as they undoubtedly
would at some point?-=-
My first answer is "no" and my second answer is "sometimes" but you
asked "always."
I learned a lot of hydrodynamics from amusing myself in the sink when
I was made to do dishes when I was a kid. We had a percolator to
wash, so there was a tube and a strainer basket, both of which are
fun. I figured out all kinds of things to do with putting glasses
face down into the water. Water will overflow if it's near the top,
and it works the same whether you push the glass down butt-first or
head-first, so I figured out it was full of air. Nobody was there to
explain it to me and I just thought about it and kept playing. For
years. Still. <g> And I knew you could look for a knife in the
bottom of soapy water by putting a glass down in there as a viewer.
My mom did show me that one, and she showed me for fun.
I think if you share a fact and he seems interested or asks questions
you could share another one. But to decide in advance to share five
or ten regardless of his reaction isn't conversational or friendly.
It's teacherly, because you had a lesson plan.
-=-I hope this question isn't too subtle or nit-picky. It kinda feels
that way to me. -=-
For people who already have the broader understanding, ALL of their
learning happens at the subtle level. Bring out all the subtle
questions you want to!
-=-Where is the line where an interaction between parent and child
crosses into
"teaching"? Does it just have to do with the motivation/agenda of the
parent in any given scenario? Or is there some other defining detail
in the
exchange? And sorry this is so long.lacking personal clarity on this
subject, I'm using a lot of words.-=-
What has helped me is to rephrase any of my questions about teaching
and learning so that the verb was always "learning." Sometimes it
takes a fair amount of rearrangement, and sometimes it can't be
done. When it can't be done, just abandon the thought! (That's my
advice.)
Then, though, sometimes an older kid might ask you to explain long
division or something, and then you're in a different situation.
Holly asked me to show her (not to teach her how to do it), so I did
one real current problem (whatever it was we had been talking about)
and there was going to be a remainder/fraction, but I stopped there,
because she didn't need to know that, she needed to know how many of
whatever we had. She watched me to it and I explained as I went (but
as quickly as I was going, without stopping and looking to see if she
understood; she would've stopped me if she wanted me to slow down),
and I said "and some left over, and we could figure out exactly how
much, but..." and that was all. She was happy, I hadn't "done a
lesson" and she knows what it looks like. If she wants more she'll ask.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Wooton
On Sep 13, 2008, at 5:08 AM, Brad Holcomb wrote:
two ;-)
Did you know that the term, "To Claven," has become part of Jeopardy
jargon, meaning to bet all your money in Final Jeopardy, even though
you're way ahead of the other players, as Cliff did when he competed?
and shows *you* these discoveries, will you drag out a science text or
ask him to write a report? Will you insist on Googling for more
information, and insist he listen while you read what you find?
*That's* how people turn life into school. If you want to do that
research for yourself, because you want to know more, cool; if you
offer to share what you've found and your son is interested, that's
cool, too. If he rolls his eyes and sighs deeply and says, "ok-
ay...," he may be trying to tell you something ;-)
others have the same question.)
course, you share the world with him. Think of yourself as a docent
in the museum of the world. You know what the cool exhibits have to
offer. You are also not required to grade the visitor, but to share
what you know and help him satisfy his own curiosity.
An unschooling family continues in the same way, though the 10 y.o. or
the teen may become the docent as well. Live a rich, stimulating
life, for all members of the family. Nobody grades anyone else. Each
shares what interests him or her, and develops the courtesy to stop
when the listener's eyes glaze over <g>
Nancy
> He doesn't do those things to be know-it-all.he's not out-of-touch orCliff. It's a little-known fact that people sometimes confuse the
> over-the-top like Norm on Cheers with his "little-known facts".
two ;-)
Did you know that the term, "To Claven," has become part of Jeopardy
jargon, meaning to bet all your money in Final Jeopardy, even though
you're way ahead of the other players, as Cliff did when he competed?
> Plus ISounds like normal unschool living to me. When he's a little older
> wasn't getting that detailed with my son, and he wasn't offering
> resistance
> to anything we were doing. So what I was doing felt like Strewing
> in many
> ways, except there was lots of talking.not just putting the box in
> the tub
> and letting play/discovery happen. And my son wasn't asking me for
> help
> with it, nor was I interrupting his own play. He would see me doing
> something, and hang on my shoulder watching for a bit, then want to
> join in.
> And sometimes the exact thing I was doing in that moment didn't look
> very
> interesting, so he would play with something totally different for a
> while
> on the other side of the 8-person tub.
and shows *you* these discoveries, will you drag out a science text or
ask him to write a report? Will you insist on Googling for more
information, and insist he listen while you read what you find?
*That's* how people turn life into school. If you want to do that
research for yourself, because you want to know more, cool; if you
offer to share what you've found and your son is interested, that's
cool, too. If he rolls his eyes and sighs deeply and says, "ok-
ay...," he may be trying to tell you something ;-)
>What's a nalgene bottle? (I could Google that for myself, but perhaps
>
> At one point I played with the nalgene bottle for a half-hour, by
> myself.
others have the same question.)
>You're talking about a toddler here, not a 10 y.o. or a teen. Of
> To help me tease apart the subtleties of this topic, would anyone be
> willing
> to give me a few different short specific "scripts" of how the
> scenario
> could play out with the clear container and nalgene bottle in the tub,
> ranging from "not teaching at all, just letting learning happen and
> being
> there to facilitate" to "maybe teaching" to "definitely teaching so
> potentially harmful"? Is learning always less valuable if it is
> "shown" to
> a child, vs. letting them discover from their own experience as they
> undoubtedly would at some point?
course, you share the world with him. Think of yourself as a docent
in the museum of the world. You know what the cool exhibits have to
offer. You are also not required to grade the visitor, but to share
what you know and help him satisfy his own curiosity.
An unschooling family continues in the same way, though the 10 y.o. or
the teen may become the docent as well. Live a rich, stimulating
life, for all members of the family. Nobody grades anyone else. Each
shares what interests him or her, and develops the courtesy to stop
when the listener's eyes glaze over <g>
Nancy
Robyn L. Coburn
This was a really interesting, thought provoking post, and it sounds like a
lovely time was had by all.
I'm pulling out a couple of quotes for my comments.
<<<<I was having fun playing>>> snip <<<<But I kept pausing, feeling
uncomfortably like I had crossed into taking
is the feeling I try to identify and trust when it happens. That is the
point at which I would back off a bit. It is good to learn about yourself -
can this kind of activity be a "slippery slope" for you? Being aware of your
own heart will prevent the slide.
<<<< As I was playing, I was sharing "facts" with my son. "See, if you go
under
interesting that the lecture portion was accetable to him. It was going a
bit beyond an honest exclamation of delight or surprise ("oh look at
that!"), wasn't it?
Part of this is also your child's temperament. My dd would probably have
told me to be quiet almost immediately, because my voice would have been
interfering with her process of discovery. She would much, much rather tell
me what she was seeing. If I persisted Jayn would have gone away to do
something else, and a moment of sharing would have been lost.
I believe pretty strongly that every time you tell a child a "fact" like
this, or direct their observation, or do the movement for them, you deny
them the opportunity to discover it for themselves. The energy of a child
being told or shown something really cool is great, the energy of child
discovering something really cool is stellar.
In a similar to this scenario, such as the bath or the pool at our house, my
first job is done when I have supplied a number of different objects with
different properties. Jayn has done almost those exact experiments (and I
know what you mean about the challenge of the exact neutral density with
water bottles) in the course of inventing a game of making a "submarine" to
push between us like catch. The next part of my job is not describing what
we are seeing, but listening to her tell me what she is discovering.
She has also stood at the kitchen sink on the kitchen stepladder, with many
containers, bottles, measuring cups, warm water and soap on uncountable
occasions from the time she was about 18 months old and played water for 2
hours at a time. Her intensity would have been interrupted if I were trying
to give her information. I guess in a way I am disagreeing with Nancy,
because I believe the younger they are the LESS you should be telling them
and doing for them in exploration type activities (and aren't they ALL
exploration type activities), the more you should be holding your tongue and
letting them joyously discover these basic laws of physics and chemistry.
There's no hurry. These physical characteristics of buoancy and liquids
aren't going to change any time soon. Trust your feelings.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
lovely time was had by all.
I'm pulling out a couple of quotes for my comments.
<<<<I was having fun playing>>> snip <<<<But I kept pausing, feeling
uncomfortably like I had crossed into taking
> advantage of a "teachable moment". >>>>This was the key. You had a gut feeling that interefered with your fun. That
is the feeling I try to identify and trust when it happens. That is the
point at which I would back off a bit. It is good to learn about yourself -
can this kind of activity be a "slippery slope" for you? Being aware of your
own heart will prevent the slide.
<<<< As I was playing, I was sharing "facts" with my son. "See, if you go
under
> now, and blow air up into the submerged box, the air from your lungs getsIn a way you got lucky, because what you were showing him was so immensely
> captured in the box. And now, if I flip the box over, your air bubbles
> will
> finally come to the surface. But they've been trapped under the box for a
> while." And he was playing right along,>>>
interesting that the lecture portion was accetable to him. It was going a
bit beyond an honest exclamation of delight or surprise ("oh look at
that!"), wasn't it?
Part of this is also your child's temperament. My dd would probably have
told me to be quiet almost immediately, because my voice would have been
interfering with her process of discovery. She would much, much rather tell
me what she was seeing. If I persisted Jayn would have gone away to do
something else, and a moment of sharing would have been lost.
I believe pretty strongly that every time you tell a child a "fact" like
this, or direct their observation, or do the movement for them, you deny
them the opportunity to discover it for themselves. The energy of a child
being told or shown something really cool is great, the energy of child
discovering something really cool is stellar.
In a similar to this scenario, such as the bath or the pool at our house, my
first job is done when I have supplied a number of different objects with
different properties. Jayn has done almost those exact experiments (and I
know what you mean about the challenge of the exact neutral density with
water bottles) in the course of inventing a game of making a "submarine" to
push between us like catch. The next part of my job is not describing what
we are seeing, but listening to her tell me what she is discovering.
She has also stood at the kitchen sink on the kitchen stepladder, with many
containers, bottles, measuring cups, warm water and soap on uncountable
occasions from the time she was about 18 months old and played water for 2
hours at a time. Her intensity would have been interrupted if I were trying
to give her information. I guess in a way I am disagreeing with Nancy,
because I believe the younger they are the LESS you should be telling them
and doing for them in exploration type activities (and aren't they ALL
exploration type activities), the more you should be holding your tongue and
letting them joyously discover these basic laws of physics and chemistry.
There's no hurry. These physical characteristics of buoancy and liquids
aren't going to change any time soon. Trust your feelings.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
Sandra Dodd
-=-There's no hurry. These physical characteristics of buoancy and
liquids
aren't going to change any time soon. Trust your feelings.-=-
That's true, but sometimes there's a hurry.
Two moonflowers bloomed the other night. Today a new vine I've never
had before bloomed.
I showed Holly and her boyfriend Brett the two moonflowers. I
haven't shown anyone the other one. I knew I had missed some blooms
on other days, and seeing that some were forming up, I went straight
out this morning to look.
-=-I believe pretty strongly that every time you tell a child a
"fact" like
this, or direct their observation, or do the movement for them, you deny
them the opportunity to discover it for themselves. The energy of a
child
being told or shown something really cool is great, the energy of child
discovering something really cool is stellar.-=-
We had an albino praying mantis. Two years ago and I showed it to
people. It stayed on the same vine all summer.
Ah. Maybe I just saw my own distinguishing factor. I showed it to
EVERYBODY who got in range who might have an interest, not just to my
kids.
Last week I saw another one, about four feet from where that one
lived before. It's not the same one (not that I think it could live
for years, but it's smaller), but it has occurred to me that it might
be related, y'know...
I can't let my kids wait their whole lives to maybe discover an
albino praying mantis! But I didn't give a lecture with photos and
explanations of albinism, I just said "HEY, LOOK!"
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
liquids
aren't going to change any time soon. Trust your feelings.-=-
That's true, but sometimes there's a hurry.
Two moonflowers bloomed the other night. Today a new vine I've never
had before bloomed.
I showed Holly and her boyfriend Brett the two moonflowers. I
haven't shown anyone the other one. I knew I had missed some blooms
on other days, and seeing that some were forming up, I went straight
out this morning to look.
-=-I believe pretty strongly that every time you tell a child a
"fact" like
this, or direct their observation, or do the movement for them, you deny
them the opportunity to discover it for themselves. The energy of a
child
being told or shown something really cool is great, the energy of child
discovering something really cool is stellar.-=-
We had an albino praying mantis. Two years ago and I showed it to
people. It stayed on the same vine all summer.
Ah. Maybe I just saw my own distinguishing factor. I showed it to
EVERYBODY who got in range who might have an interest, not just to my
kids.
Last week I saw another one, about four feet from where that one
lived before. It's not the same one (not that I think it could live
for years, but it's smaller), but it has occurred to me that it might
be related, y'know...
I can't let my kids wait their whole lives to maybe discover an
albino praying mantis! But I didn't give a lecture with photos and
explanations of albinism, I just said "HEY, LOOK!"
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Clarissa Fetrow
Brad,
Thank you, I love this story, and read it avidly. And it was timely for me.
My 5yo daughter and I are in a monthly science club, ten families with a
total of about 12 kids ages about 4-7. Some of us are unschoolers, and some
are school-at-home types. I took my first turn leading science club
yesterday, and chose SOUND as my theme. We played "What can you tell about
this sound?" where I knocked or rubbed various things together in a box
where they couldn't see what was making the sound. They listened to see if
they could figure out the size, what the pieces were made out of, or any
other information their ears were picking up. Then I would unveil the
items. We made telephones out of plastic cups and fishing line; little
stringed instruments out of cans and rubber bands; kazoos out of combs and
tissue paper; and poppers that make a fun loud bang, out of folded paper.
Everyone could choose which projects, if any, they participated in. And
playing with the paper poppers turned into me showing a few of them how to
make and use those paper fortune tellers (aka "cootie catcher" in English,
and "coin coin" in French).
It was fun, and thus successful, in my opinion, but two school-at-home
parents had sort of a gently disappointed tone that I didn't cover
terminology or discuss the actual science of any of it, other than what was
actually observable (like I observed out loud that you can touch the fishing
line and feel the sound go through it while people are talking into it).
One on one with the kids and parents, I did answer questions, and some
terminology did come up that way, for those who were interested, but I
figured each kid would take what they took from it, and maybe one might be
still playing his kazoo comb, and wondering why it feels vibrate-y, someone
else might be running her finger up and down the rubber band and hearing the
pitch change, or whatever. I feel really happy that they got to experience
those things. And they can take it from there. Or not. Or not now. Or
yes now.
But I (honestly) feel proud of myself that I feel (mostly) peaceful that I
didn't stick terminology and schematics in to make myself feel like it was
more science-y, and thus value-added. And I also feel grateful that I can
groove on the fact that the most universally popular part of the day turned
out to be the paper fortune teller things, which wasn't about sound, and
wasn't planned. I see a lot of progress in myself as an unschooler and am
happy remembering yesterday, as it was.
I really think your description sounds wonderful.
Clarissa
Thank you, I love this story, and read it avidly. And it was timely for me.
My 5yo daughter and I are in a monthly science club, ten families with a
total of about 12 kids ages about 4-7. Some of us are unschoolers, and some
are school-at-home types. I took my first turn leading science club
yesterday, and chose SOUND as my theme. We played "What can you tell about
this sound?" where I knocked or rubbed various things together in a box
where they couldn't see what was making the sound. They listened to see if
they could figure out the size, what the pieces were made out of, or any
other information their ears were picking up. Then I would unveil the
items. We made telephones out of plastic cups and fishing line; little
stringed instruments out of cans and rubber bands; kazoos out of combs and
tissue paper; and poppers that make a fun loud bang, out of folded paper.
Everyone could choose which projects, if any, they participated in. And
playing with the paper poppers turned into me showing a few of them how to
make and use those paper fortune tellers (aka "cootie catcher" in English,
and "coin coin" in French).
It was fun, and thus successful, in my opinion, but two school-at-home
parents had sort of a gently disappointed tone that I didn't cover
terminology or discuss the actual science of any of it, other than what was
actually observable (like I observed out loud that you can touch the fishing
line and feel the sound go through it while people are talking into it).
One on one with the kids and parents, I did answer questions, and some
terminology did come up that way, for those who were interested, but I
figured each kid would take what they took from it, and maybe one might be
still playing his kazoo comb, and wondering why it feels vibrate-y, someone
else might be running her finger up and down the rubber band and hearing the
pitch change, or whatever. I feel really happy that they got to experience
those things. And they can take it from there. Or not. Or not now. Or
yes now.
But I (honestly) feel proud of myself that I feel (mostly) peaceful that I
didn't stick terminology and schematics in to make myself feel like it was
more science-y, and thus value-added. And I also feel grateful that I can
groove on the fact that the most universally popular part of the day turned
out to be the paper fortune teller things, which wasn't about sound, and
wasn't planned. I see a lot of progress in myself as an unschooler and am
happy remembering yesterday, as it was.
I really think your description sounds wonderful.
Clarissa
On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 5:08 AM, Brad Holcomb <list.brad@...> wrote:
> I hope this question isn't too subtle or nit-picky. It kinda feels that
> way
> to me. This is something I've been thinking about for months, though, and I
> pondered it a lot yesterday.
>
> Where is the line where an interaction between parent and child crosses
> into
> "teaching"? Does it just have to do with the motivation/agenda of the
> parent in any given scenario? Or is there some other defining detail in the
> exchange? And sorry this is so long.lacking personal clarity on this
> subject, I'm using a lot of words.
>
> Yesterday we were getting in our hot tub, my 3.5 year old son and I.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ed Wendell
This has been the "Summer of Spiders" for us - it will go down in my memory as the Summer of Spiders anyway. We are calling it that too - The Summer of Spiders ;) We have had large spiders making huge webs all over the place. We have even at times refused to use the front door or back door as there will be a huge web covering the door way - with spidey right in the middle having a snack or spinning his web right in front of our faces!!!!!! Poor dogs never know which door to ask out at - LOL We say "OH COOL - anyone want to see another cool spider and web?" Once a web was being built between a tree and our house and an electrical wire. I stood there speculating/wondering in amazement, out loud, about how the spider could have gotten it all put there in mid air, between those connecting places - by the way does anyone know how they do it ? There was probably 10 feet between the tree and house. We've lived here for 15 years and this is our first experience with spiders covering our door ways - usually they are tucked into a corner (outside not inside the house) and we have to discover them.
We don't look up anything at all - we have no idea what type of spiders we are harboring (we know they are not Brown Recluse / very poisonous or they would not be welcome) just the wondering, amazement, and beauty of the moment.
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We don't look up anything at all - we have no idea what type of spiders we are harboring (we know they are not Brown Recluse / very poisonous or they would not be welcome) just the wondering, amazement, and beauty of the moment.
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn L. Coburn
But you also didn't necessarily bring them over to the flower, direct their
attention to the stamens, turn over the leaves and show them how to stroke
the underside, have them follow the stem down to the roots, compare the
fragrance (if any) to a bunch of other things. Maybe you collected the spent
bloom and pulled it open to investigate. I could happily leave that to Jayn.
Making an analogy between "pointing out the flower" and "tub/water play" -
what you did with the flower was the equivalent of what I do by filling the
tub with water and popping a bunch of items, toys and containers, into the
water.
I would say "look at that" about an albino mantis too! That sounds cool.
Jayn would show me whether she wanted more infomation.
Earlier in the week when we got home, Jayn said "come look at this big
spider!" It had spun a long web between a 2nd floor balcony and a tree,
spanning about 15 feet and was sitting in the middle. It was fascinating and
a bit scary for Jayn. It's gone now, as we reemerge to the world after
having our annual conference crud. Yes timely can be important.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
attention to the stamens, turn over the leaves and show them how to stroke
the underside, have them follow the stem down to the roots, compare the
fragrance (if any) to a bunch of other things. Maybe you collected the spent
bloom and pulled it open to investigate. I could happily leave that to Jayn.
Making an analogy between "pointing out the flower" and "tub/water play" -
what you did with the flower was the equivalent of what I do by filling the
tub with water and popping a bunch of items, toys and containers, into the
water.
I would say "look at that" about an albino mantis too! That sounds cool.
Jayn would show me whether she wanted more infomation.
Earlier in the week when we got home, Jayn said "come look at this big
spider!" It had spun a long web between a 2nd floor balcony and a tree,
spanning about 15 feet and was sitting in the middle. It was fascinating and
a bit scary for Jayn. It's gone now, as we reemerge to the world after
having our annual conference crud. Yes timely can be important.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
Brad Holcomb
Thank you to everyone for the great insights into the subtleties of this
topic. After posting, I was distracted the rest of the morning by the
arrival of Lena Gianna Holcomb into our home. It was a very fun unassisted
birth in our bedroom. Born 9/13/2008 at 12:50pm. -=b.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/holcomb/sets/72157607286447827/
topic. After posting, I was distracted the rest of the morning by the
arrival of Lena Gianna Holcomb into our home. It was a very fun unassisted
birth in our bedroom. Born 9/13/2008 at 12:50pm. -=b.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/holcomb/sets/72157607286447827/
k
Congratulations!
~Katherine
~Katherine
On 9/14/08, Brad Holcomb <list.brad@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you to everyone for the great insights into the subtleties of this
> topic. After posting, I was distracted the rest of the morning by the
> arrival of Lena Gianna Holcomb into our home. It was a very fun unassisted
> birth in our bedroom. Born 9/13/2008 at 12:50pm. -=b.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/holcomb/sets/72157607286447827/
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
She's beautiful!!
Anyone who didn't look at those photos... That one near the end of
her in her fuzzy hat just gazing is fantastic. http://www.flickr.com/
photos/holcomb/sets/72157607286447827/
What a beautiful beginning for Lena! Thanks for sharing those
photos, Brad.
If anyone wants to share recent photos of kids, please leave links to
blogs or photo sets if you have them, or put something in the files
section and let us know you've done that.
This is another advantage of modern life that unschoolers didn't have
when i was starting. We could read words, but not see images.
Sandra
Anyone who didn't look at those photos... That one near the end of
her in her fuzzy hat just gazing is fantastic. http://www.flickr.com/
photos/holcomb/sets/72157607286447827/
What a beautiful beginning for Lena! Thanks for sharing those
photos, Brad.
If anyone wants to share recent photos of kids, please leave links to
blogs or photo sets if you have them, or put something in the files
section and let us know you've done that.
This is another advantage of modern life that unschoolers didn't have
when i was starting. We could read words, but not see images.
Sandra
Schuyler
Congratulations!! Oh! Yay! How beautiful she is, they all are. Really. Oh, maybe I'll get to meet her next year!
Bubblegum cigars all round!
Schuyler
----- Original Message ----
From: Brad Holcomb <list.brad@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, 14 September, 2008 5:12:49 PM
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning] teachable moments in the tub - Welcome Lena
Thank you to everyone for the great insights into the subtleties of this
topic. After posting, I was distracted the rest of the morning by the
arrival of Lena Gianna Holcomb into our home. It was a very fun unassisted
birth in our bedroom. Born 9/13/2008 at 12:50pm. -=b.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/holcomb/sets/72157607286447827/
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bubblegum cigars all round!
Schuyler
----- Original Message ----
From: Brad Holcomb <list.brad@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, 14 September, 2008 5:12:49 PM
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning] teachable moments in the tub - Welcome Lena
Thank you to everyone for the great insights into the subtleties of this
topic. After posting, I was distracted the rest of the morning by the
arrival of Lena Gianna Holcomb into our home. It was a very fun unassisted
birth in our bedroom. Born 9/13/2008 at 12:50pm. -=b.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/holcomb/sets/72157607286447827/
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
MLewis
Well that's QUITE the distraction! Lena is absolutely beautiful,
congratulations! And thank you so much for sharing the photos. I
especially like "I love you too". Just fabulous.
Mary
--- In [email protected], "Brad Holcomb" <list.brad@...>
wrote:
congratulations! And thank you so much for sharing the photos. I
especially like "I love you too". Just fabulous.
Mary
--- In [email protected], "Brad Holcomb" <list.brad@...>
wrote:
>this
> Thank you to everyone for the great insights into the subtleties of
> topic. After posting, I was distracted the rest of the morning by theunassisted
> arrival of Lena Gianna Holcomb into our home. It was a very fun
> birth in our bedroom. Born 9/13/2008 at 12:50pm. -=b.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/holcomb/sets/72157607286447827/
>
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Congratulations! So excited for your family!!!!!
What a princess!
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What a princess!
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jill Parmer
On Sep 14, 2008, at 10:12 AM, Brad Holcomb wrote:
> I was distracted the rest of the morning by theBeautiful!!!
> arrival of Lena Gianna Holcomb into our home. It was a very fun
> unassisted
> birth in our bedroom. Born 9/13/2008 at 12:50pm. -=b.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/holcomb/sets/72157607286447827/
On Sep 14, 2008, at 10:23 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> This is another advantage of modern life that unschoolers didn't have
> when i was starting. We could read words, but not see images.
My kids are hoping for portals, so we can visit friends that live far
away whenever we want without the long plane rides.
~Jill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
MrsStranahan
You have a beautiful family, congratulations!
I would love to hear more about Lena's unassisted birth. If a birth story
gets written will you link us?
Lauren
I would love to hear more about Lena's unassisted birth. If a birth story
gets written will you link us?
Lauren
On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 9:12 AM, Brad Holcomb <list.brad@...> wrote:
> Thank you to everyone for the great insights into the subtleties of this
> topic. After posting, I was distracted the rest of the morning by the
> arrival of Lena Gianna Holcomb into our home. It was a very fun unassisted
> birth in our bedroom. Born 9/13/2008 at 12:50pm. -=b.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/holcomb/sets/72157607286447827/
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
graberamy
<<We've lived here for 15 years and this is our first experience with
spiders covering our door ways - usually they are tucked into a corner
(outside not inside the house) and we have to discover them.>>
We lived in our house for a few years before these fall spiders
started showing up. They're garden spiders and they make huge orb
webs and they themselves are pretty big, body size about a dime. Now,
they come back to the same spot every year. One on our bedroom door
(french doors leading to outside) and one by our front door! I
imagine that they must be the previous spiders babies?? Kinda like
Charolette (from Charolettes Web!)! We look forward to them every year!
Is this what yours looks like??
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.meltonrossnewbarnetby.co.uk/images/garden_spider.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.meltonrossnewbarnetby.co.uk/g_spider.htm&h=480&w=640&sz=24&tbnid=6Der_P7hXM4J::&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgarden%2Bspider&hl=en&usg=__GiKC8uO9wp40TX1LwMpvgYbexIc=&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=1
amy g
iowa
spiders covering our door ways - usually they are tucked into a corner
(outside not inside the house) and we have to discover them.>>
We lived in our house for a few years before these fall spiders
started showing up. They're garden spiders and they make huge orb
webs and they themselves are pretty big, body size about a dime. Now,
they come back to the same spot every year. One on our bedroom door
(french doors leading to outside) and one by our front door! I
imagine that they must be the previous spiders babies?? Kinda like
Charolette (from Charolettes Web!)! We look forward to them every year!
Is this what yours looks like??
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.meltonrossnewbarnetby.co.uk/images/garden_spider.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.meltonrossnewbarnetby.co.uk/g_spider.htm&h=480&w=640&sz=24&tbnid=6Der_P7hXM4J::&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgarden%2Bspider&hl=en&usg=__GiKC8uO9wp40TX1LwMpvgYbexIc=&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=1
amy g
iowa
Sandra Dodd
-=-My kids are hoping for portals, so we can visit friends that live far
away whenever we want without the long plane rides.-=-
The internet does a pretty good job, considering the paper letters it
replaces!
Kirby has lived in Texas for a year. If I were having to depend on
paper letters, I might only have heard from him three or four times.
Another thing I absolutely and deeply adore about the internet is
that a digital photo can be available seconds from the time it is
taken, and can be seen by ALL your relatives, all at once, and they
can hit print if they want to. And I can see people brand-new born-
at-home babies, and kids playing with soap bubbles and toy guns and
climbing on cool equipment and babies nursing, and grandparents
smiling all twinkly-eyed at unschooled kids.
This part is new.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
away whenever we want without the long plane rides.-=-
The internet does a pretty good job, considering the paper letters it
replaces!
Kirby has lived in Texas for a year. If I were having to depend on
paper letters, I might only have heard from him three or four times.
Another thing I absolutely and deeply adore about the internet is
that a digital photo can be available seconds from the time it is
taken, and can be seen by ALL your relatives, all at once, and they
can hit print if they want to. And I can see people brand-new born-
at-home babies, and kids playing with soap bubbles and toy guns and
climbing on cool equipment and babies nursing, and grandparents
smiling all twinkly-eyed at unschooled kids.
This part is new.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ed Wendell
Well since you're in Iowa and we're in Missouri we're somewhat close.
Yes that is what 3 of them look like - the ones making webs across door ways - The one that was ten feet in the air was a bit hard to tell what he was like - but some are different and making different types of webs in other places. That has been some of the coolness of it. Also, these spiders have been around since early summer and some we have actually seen them grow. Well not actually growing at that moment - but can see a day by day difference in their size.
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yes that is what 3 of them look like - the ones making webs across door ways - The one that was ten feet in the air was a bit hard to tell what he was like - but some are different and making different types of webs in other places. That has been some of the coolness of it. Also, these spiders have been around since early summer and some we have actually seen them grow. Well not actually growing at that moment - but can see a day by day difference in their size.
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meghan Anderson-Coates
Gorgeous! Thanks for sharing and a big congratulations :-)
Meghan
�
Why not go out on a limb? Isn�t that where the fruit is?
~ Frank Scully
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meghan
�
Why not go out on a limb? Isn�t that where the fruit is?
~ Frank Scully
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
emiLy Q.
Brad,
In my opinion, what happened with you, your son, and the tub was completely
natural and normal. And good.
It sounds totally fun! And educational. You can't beat that.
(My daughter is watching Mr. Wizard DVDs with her dad right now - so I may
be biased towards the "cool things to do with air and water" end of the
spectrum. :) )
-emiLy, mom to Delia (4.5) & Henry (1)
Babies are BORN potty trained!
http://www.BornPottyTrained.com
In my opinion, what happened with you, your son, and the tub was completely
natural and normal. And good.
It sounds totally fun! And educational. You can't beat that.
(My daughter is watching Mr. Wizard DVDs with her dad right now - so I may
be biased towards the "cool things to do with air and water" end of the
spectrum. :) )
-emiLy, mom to Delia (4.5) & Henry (1)
Babies are BORN potty trained!
http://www.BornPottyTrained.com