Also Invited was Re: List problem and dishonesty
Karen
> People didn't join this list to get uninvited e-mails, but only toget posts from the list.
As I have indicated, these were *not* "uninvited" emails whatsoever. This
is an "also invited" invitation. The email even stated, "...where
AlwaysLearning members may post and discuss posts/topics which have been
rejected by this list". How could they even have rejects to post if they
were no longer members of this list? Also, please note that my email said
"discuss posts/topics", *not* "discuss the other list" or "discuss why they
were not allowed". This is to be an *extension* of topics, *not* a
replacement.
Karen
Ren Allen
~~As I have indicated, these were *not* "uninvited" emails whatsoever.~~
So everyone that got your invitation had requested it?? They all asked
to be invited to your new list?
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
So everyone that got your invitation had requested it?? They all asked
to be invited to your new list?
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Sandra Dodd
-=-As I have indicated, these were *not* "uninvited" emails
whatsoever. This
is an "also invited" invitation.-=-
So you were inviting people from this list in batches, with the
automated yahoogroups invitation feature?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
whatsoever. This
is an "also invited" invitation.-=-
So you were inviting people from this list in batches, with the
automated yahoogroups invitation feature?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn L. Coburn
<<<> As I have indicated, these were *not* "uninvited" emails whatsoever>>>
I have no idea which post I made in the fullness of time past Karen is
construing as an invitation to people to send me private emails about other
lists.
I have no idea what I have ever written that gives Karen the impression that
I am dissatisfied in any way with this list, or feel limited by the topics
discussed.
I have no idea what I have ever said about my daughter that has made Karen
believe the particular topics of her list would be valuable to me.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
I have no idea which post I made in the fullness of time past Karen is
construing as an invitation to people to send me private emails about other
lists.
I have no idea what I have ever written that gives Karen the impression that
I am dissatisfied in any way with this list, or feel limited by the topics
discussed.
I have no idea what I have ever said about my daughter that has made Karen
believe the particular topics of her list would be valuable to me.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
Clarissa Fetrow
I've been thinking about this situation and what I can learn from it about
healthy email list etiquette.
It felt creepy to get that private email from someone I didn't know inviting
me to an alternate Yahoo list based on dissatisfaction with the original
list. And it made me wonder - if *I* got one, unsolicited, how many other
people did too?
I think even if a member of a list wanted to create a more specific email
list for any sort of sub-group, say unschoolers who like to draw, it still
wouldn't be effective to write individual emails that said, "Hey, I've
noticed in your posts that your child likes to draw, would you like to join
the new UnschoolersWhoDraw list?" because that would miss all the other
parents of unschoolers who draw, but who have just never mentioned it on the
list.
Also, since the new list's entire basis for existence is dissatisfaction
with the original list (which can certainly happen, and is a legitimate
reason for starting a new list, in my opinion), I think it would have have
been an important courtesy to notify the owner of the original list that the
new list owner planned to invite members of the original list to join her
new list. That this notification didn't happen doesn't smell good.
I am on three unschooling and/or homeschooling local email lists in my
state. I recently wanted to let members of each list know that the other
lists exist, so everyone could have more choices. In that case, there was
no dissatisfaction on my part, just more of a sense of bringing together.
Each list has a different slant, and a different flavor, and I'm a member
of them all. I am very glad that I posted my info about the other groups,
in each case, to the whole list. I wouldn't have wanted to make the same
mistake that happened here, seeing how strong the icky factor is.
Clarissa
Seattle, WA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
healthy email list etiquette.
It felt creepy to get that private email from someone I didn't know inviting
me to an alternate Yahoo list based on dissatisfaction with the original
list. And it made me wonder - if *I* got one, unsolicited, how many other
people did too?
I think even if a member of a list wanted to create a more specific email
list for any sort of sub-group, say unschoolers who like to draw, it still
wouldn't be effective to write individual emails that said, "Hey, I've
noticed in your posts that your child likes to draw, would you like to join
the new UnschoolersWhoDraw list?" because that would miss all the other
parents of unschoolers who draw, but who have just never mentioned it on the
list.
Also, since the new list's entire basis for existence is dissatisfaction
with the original list (which can certainly happen, and is a legitimate
reason for starting a new list, in my opinion), I think it would have have
been an important courtesy to notify the owner of the original list that the
new list owner planned to invite members of the original list to join her
new list. That this notification didn't happen doesn't smell good.
I am on three unschooling and/or homeschooling local email lists in my
state. I recently wanted to let members of each list know that the other
lists exist, so everyone could have more choices. In that case, there was
no dissatisfaction on my part, just more of a sense of bringing together.
Each list has a different slant, and a different flavor, and I'm a member
of them all. I am very glad that I posted my info about the other groups,
in each case, to the whole list. I wouldn't have wanted to make the same
mistake that happened here, seeing how strong the icky factor is.
Clarissa
Seattle, WA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
***As I have indicated, these were *not* "uninvited" emails whatsoever. ***
I haven't posted to Always Learning in awhile so I'm fair certain I was not part of any discussion here about disordered anything or anybody.
I did not invite you to contact me. The email you sent me *twice* was most definitely uninvited.
I like this list and I like it because I don't have to sift through stuff like this:
***My DD had severe ADHD. Her symptoms included severe hyperactivity
dangerously combined with impulsivity (such as no thought or care
before running into a busy street), inability to focus and related
frustration with herself, very oppositional behavior, poor eye
contact, difficulty listening, emotional hypersensitivity, social
anxiety, overwhelmed by clean-up projects. She would say very
negative things about herself and had chronic headaches. Her ADHD
counterpart of autistic "flapping" was endless somersaulting on our
ottoman just to keep herself in motion. Sometimes she would launch
herself into belly-flops onto the ottoman or a bed just to keep
herself in motion. Another repetitive type of behavior would be
continuous rewinding to listen to a tiny segment of music or a DVD
over and over again. ***
When kids are throwing themselves on ottomans or tumbling on furniture that's not a problem with the kid's behavior that's an indication that the mom needs to take that kid to the park or to the pool or to the back yard and PLAY with him. Get a tumbling mat if the sofa's about worn out. Get a trampoline. Get a punching bag. Get at least as interested in helping your kid do those things (she's clearly telling you) she wants and needs to do as you are in telling us why she needs fixing.
And this: ***Another repetitive type of behavior would be
continuous rewinding to listen to a tiny segment of music or a DVD
over and over again.***
Everyone who was ever young and loved music rewound their favorite parts of songs eight billion times. Jeezy Creezy. These days if I don't understand lyrics I can get information online. In the old days, it was rewind, rewind, rewind, rewind. My son's big old Wurlitzer organ has a built in tape player so he can listen to tiny segments as many times as he wants. Why do you suppose cd players and dvd players have those search features? If you could know that in twenty years she'd be a sought after sound editor, or breaker of secret codes would you think of these behaviors as negative things?
I think it's a sign of a pretty smart kid who becomes oppositional when adults want to pick apart every thing they do. I think it's psychologically healthy to oppose those who want to control us. I would avoid eye contact when I knew that someone was going to tell me all the stuff I *needed* to do or not do in order to win their approval. When a parent says to a kid "Look at me." They intend the power of their eye contact to have a controlling influence on that child and the purpose is to make the child behave the way the parent wants. Kids aren't idiots. They know what "Look at me" means. They know they're being bullied. I looked at a bunch of youtube videos of kids with autism after one thread on another list and what I came away thinking was that any kid who has such annoying parents as those in the video is doing pretty well to find a way to cope. One video about avoidance of eye contact was a person repeatedly asking her kid to look at her while she filmed him when he was busy doing something he found very interesting. An adult would have told her to take a flying leap. Her child was more polite. That video would have been better titled, "Thoughtless Mom Pestering Busy Kid."
"Experts" for awhile (and maybe still) told parents to look their kid in the eye when they wanted to convey something important. That was so the parent could be sure the kid heard (as we all know we hear through our eyeballs) and so the parents could tag that kid as "not listening" if he still did the thing after having had the eyeball treatment. We don't do that to adults. If your boss said, "Look at me, LOOK AT ME, I want you to take these papers to Fred." You'd think the guy was an A hole. Well guess what? <g> And if you met someone who got in your face and maybe grabbed your shoulders or chin to force eye contact how often would you want to hang around that person? Let's not do that rude and creepy thing to our kids.
I never knew a kid who didn't flap or flop or fling or flail or twirl, hop, wiggle or engage in repetitive behaviors. Is a baby dropping a toy over and over again and watching it fall engaging in abnormal repetitive behaviors? Of course not. As our kids grow there is so much for them to learn and we really don't have to see their experimentation with sound, motion and sensation as defective or abnormal. Kids learn and grow better when they get to decide when they're ready to use the potty, dress themselves, use a fork, read, spell, ride a bike...and they are the only ones who can decide when an experiment in squeaking or flapping is over.
If it bugs you, go into the other room or find a place for them to flop or bark or hop where they won't bug or hurt anybody else.
The problem is the behaviors annoy and/or embarrass parents and when parents are annoyed or embarrassed or frustrated we know that can't be a problem with the parents...that's a problem with that disordered kid.
I've also seen parents ignore really socially unacceptable behaviors in a child. The bigger problem is they also mostly ignore the kid and his needs. Maybe they're busy with other easier kids or a job or a sick mom and that different kid gets brushed off because it seems like he just takes up so much precious time. So when a kid gets ignored and his behaviors get ignored the problem can get big. That's still not a problem with the kid. That's a problem with the parenting.
I'm not interested in a list where parents whine about their difficult kids and make up excuses and justifications for labeling and controlling.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I haven't posted to Always Learning in awhile so I'm fair certain I was not part of any discussion here about disordered anything or anybody.
I did not invite you to contact me. The email you sent me *twice* was most definitely uninvited.
I like this list and I like it because I don't have to sift through stuff like this:
***My DD had severe ADHD. Her symptoms included severe hyperactivity
dangerously combined with impulsivity (such as no thought or care
before running into a busy street), inability to focus and related
frustration with herself, very oppositional behavior, poor eye
contact, difficulty listening, emotional hypersensitivity, social
anxiety, overwhelmed by clean-up projects. She would say very
negative things about herself and had chronic headaches. Her ADHD
counterpart of autistic "flapping" was endless somersaulting on our
ottoman just to keep herself in motion. Sometimes she would launch
herself into belly-flops onto the ottoman or a bed just to keep
herself in motion. Another repetitive type of behavior would be
continuous rewinding to listen to a tiny segment of music or a DVD
over and over again. ***
When kids are throwing themselves on ottomans or tumbling on furniture that's not a problem with the kid's behavior that's an indication that the mom needs to take that kid to the park or to the pool or to the back yard and PLAY with him. Get a tumbling mat if the sofa's about worn out. Get a trampoline. Get a punching bag. Get at least as interested in helping your kid do those things (she's clearly telling you) she wants and needs to do as you are in telling us why she needs fixing.
And this: ***Another repetitive type of behavior would be
continuous rewinding to listen to a tiny segment of music or a DVD
over and over again.***
Everyone who was ever young and loved music rewound their favorite parts of songs eight billion times. Jeezy Creezy. These days if I don't understand lyrics I can get information online. In the old days, it was rewind, rewind, rewind, rewind. My son's big old Wurlitzer organ has a built in tape player so he can listen to tiny segments as many times as he wants. Why do you suppose cd players and dvd players have those search features? If you could know that in twenty years she'd be a sought after sound editor, or breaker of secret codes would you think of these behaviors as negative things?
I think it's a sign of a pretty smart kid who becomes oppositional when adults want to pick apart every thing they do. I think it's psychologically healthy to oppose those who want to control us. I would avoid eye contact when I knew that someone was going to tell me all the stuff I *needed* to do or not do in order to win their approval. When a parent says to a kid "Look at me." They intend the power of their eye contact to have a controlling influence on that child and the purpose is to make the child behave the way the parent wants. Kids aren't idiots. They know what "Look at me" means. They know they're being bullied. I looked at a bunch of youtube videos of kids with autism after one thread on another list and what I came away thinking was that any kid who has such annoying parents as those in the video is doing pretty well to find a way to cope. One video about avoidance of eye contact was a person repeatedly asking her kid to look at her while she filmed him when he was busy doing something he found very interesting. An adult would have told her to take a flying leap. Her child was more polite. That video would have been better titled, "Thoughtless Mom Pestering Busy Kid."
"Experts" for awhile (and maybe still) told parents to look their kid in the eye when they wanted to convey something important. That was so the parent could be sure the kid heard (as we all know we hear through our eyeballs) and so the parents could tag that kid as "not listening" if he still did the thing after having had the eyeball treatment. We don't do that to adults. If your boss said, "Look at me, LOOK AT ME, I want you to take these papers to Fred." You'd think the guy was an A hole. Well guess what? <g> And if you met someone who got in your face and maybe grabbed your shoulders or chin to force eye contact how often would you want to hang around that person? Let's not do that rude and creepy thing to our kids.
I never knew a kid who didn't flap or flop or fling or flail or twirl, hop, wiggle or engage in repetitive behaviors. Is a baby dropping a toy over and over again and watching it fall engaging in abnormal repetitive behaviors? Of course not. As our kids grow there is so much for them to learn and we really don't have to see their experimentation with sound, motion and sensation as defective or abnormal. Kids learn and grow better when they get to decide when they're ready to use the potty, dress themselves, use a fork, read, spell, ride a bike...and they are the only ones who can decide when an experiment in squeaking or flapping is over.
If it bugs you, go into the other room or find a place for them to flop or bark or hop where they won't bug or hurt anybody else.
The problem is the behaviors annoy and/or embarrass parents and when parents are annoyed or embarrassed or frustrated we know that can't be a problem with the parents...that's a problem with that disordered kid.
I've also seen parents ignore really socially unacceptable behaviors in a child. The bigger problem is they also mostly ignore the kid and his needs. Maybe they're busy with other easier kids or a job or a sick mom and that different kid gets brushed off because it seems like he just takes up so much precious time. So when a kid gets ignored and his behaviors get ignored the problem can get big. That's still not a problem with the kid. That's a problem with the parenting.
I'm not interested in a list where parents whine about their difficult kids and make up excuses and justifications for labeling and controlling.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Deb Lewis <d.lewis@...>
I think it's psychologically healthy to
oppose those who want to control us.
-=-=-=-
Yeah--- I must suffer TERRIBLY from Oppositional Defiant Disorder! <bwg>
When did not wanting to be controlled turn into a "disorder" anyway???
~Kelly, severely ODD
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: Deb Lewis <d.lewis@...>
I think it's psychologically healthy to
oppose those who want to control us.
-=-=-=-
Yeah--- I must suffer TERRIBLY from Oppositional Defiant Disorder! <bwg>
When did not wanting to be controlled turn into a "disorder" anyway???
~Kelly, severely ODD
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
Pamela Sorooshian
On Aug 31, 2008, at 9:35 AM, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
school, the first thing they usually want to do is tell me ALL about
the problems at school. They don't believe I truly understand if I
don't let them tell me, so usually I listen. At some point in their
recital of how horrific the school situation has been, they'll almost
always mention something that elicits my admiration of the child for
resisting some kind of adult attempt to control him. The minute I say,
"Well, good for him, sounds like he has a strong sense of justice," or
"Good for him, glad to hear he still has a strong sense of self. He
must be incredibly resilient." the mom usually starts to cry and says
that's the first positive thing she's heard anybody say about her son
for years.
A large percentage of the people who call me for new homeschooler
information are considering taking 12 to 16 year old boys out of
school. Those are the kids for whom it becomes SO apparent that school
is not working that they consider homeschooling even though that is
something they never ever thought they'd do.
-pam
> I think it's psychologically healthy toWhen parents call me on the phone about taking their kids out of
> oppose those who want to control us.
>
> -=-=-=-
>
> Yeah--- I must suffer TERRIBLY from Oppositional Defiant Disorder!
> <bwg>
>
> When did not wanting to be controlled turn into a "disorder" anyway???
>
> ~Kelly, severely ODD
school, the first thing they usually want to do is tell me ALL about
the problems at school. They don't believe I truly understand if I
don't let them tell me, so usually I listen. At some point in their
recital of how horrific the school situation has been, they'll almost
always mention something that elicits my admiration of the child for
resisting some kind of adult attempt to control him. The minute I say,
"Well, good for him, sounds like he has a strong sense of justice," or
"Good for him, glad to hear he still has a strong sense of self. He
must be incredibly resilient." the mom usually starts to cry and says
that's the first positive thing she's heard anybody say about her son
for years.
A large percentage of the people who call me for new homeschooler
information are considering taking 12 to 16 year old boys out of
school. Those are the kids for whom it becomes SO apparent that school
is not working that they consider homeschooling even though that is
something they never ever thought they'd do.
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=-When did not wanting to be controlled turn into a "disorder"
anyway???-=-
Somewhere between Christianity and compulsory education.
There's a disease for wanting to run away from slavery, too.
And there's a disease for not wanting to go to school, too.
http://thinkingsticks.blogspot.com/2008/02/drapetomania-school-
refusal-and.html
Luckily, unschooling cures all of those by not trying to control,
enslave or lock people in school.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
anyway???-=-
Somewhere between Christianity and compulsory education.
There's a disease for wanting to run away from slavery, too.
And there's a disease for not wanting to go to school, too.
http://thinkingsticks.blogspot.com/2008/02/drapetomania-school-
refusal-and.html
Luckily, unschooling cures all of those by not trying to control,
enslave or lock people in school.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-A large percentage of the people who call me for new homeschooler
information are considering taking 12 to 16 year old boys out of
school. Those are the kids for whom it becomes SO apparent that school
is not working that they consider homeschooling even though that is
something they never ever thought they'd do.-=-
And I don't have to imagine how different those boys' lives would be
if they hadn't been in school. Kirby is 22 and Marty is 19 and I see
them in contrast to the other young men around them all the time.
Here's one current story: Kirby and his roommate and some others who
work with them at Blizzard in Austin all talked about using a bonus
they thought they were getting (still might) to go to Las Vegas to be
there on Talk Like a Pirate Day, at Treasure Island (or stay
somewhere, but to be there that weekend). The bonus hasn't come
through as they thought it would yet, so some of them can't afford to
go and others are going.
Kirby's roommate has also invited a lot of his high school friends
from here to meet them there. They all plan to drink and gamble.
Kirby (22) told me he's still planning to go, but he's not wanting to
gamble any more than some small limited amount, if any, and doesn't
much like to drink. One other guy who's going is kind of that way so
Kirby figures some of the time he'll only have that one other guy to
hang out with. He knows there's still lots of stuff to do there, and
I'm sure he'll have fun, but I think most 22 year olds with a healthy
bank account and a trip to Las Vegas booked already would not be
calling their moms to say it doesn't sound all that fun or productive.
And lest anyone think that means Kirby's a shy mama's boy, he is not.
Marty (19) is working at a restaurant so most of his income is cash
every day after the shift, his percentage of the waiters' tips (he's
bussing tables at a Persian restaurant). He comes home, counts it,
writes the amount in a notebook, and then I'm not sure exactly what,
but sometimes he gives Keith a pile of bills and Keith electronically
transfers that amount from our account to Marty's savings.
The other day someone was playing Rock Band with Marty and wanted to
download Metallica or some such. Marty said "I don't have $15." I
objected to the lie, but what Marty meant was he didn't have $15 in
his video game/entertainment budget. He's making payments on his
jeep and putting half his pay in savings.
Holly was making fun of him behind his back the other day, but in a
pretty complimentary way. She said it was interesting that Marty had
the Dodd-family genes (remember I'm only a Dodd by marriage; she's
not talking about me!) and would say "I can't spend that money, it's
for my grandchildren's college fund!" She was making up a humorous
example, but he really, truly, at the age of 19, is thinking of his
distant future.
Kids their age in school have many other things to think about. More
"real life"? Some would claim so. Things like exams, homework,
reports, a "healthy" social life (drinking and gambling and running
around). My kids have lots of social life--enough that they're not
desperate for attention or getting out of the house.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
information are considering taking 12 to 16 year old boys out of
school. Those are the kids for whom it becomes SO apparent that school
is not working that they consider homeschooling even though that is
something they never ever thought they'd do.-=-
And I don't have to imagine how different those boys' lives would be
if they hadn't been in school. Kirby is 22 and Marty is 19 and I see
them in contrast to the other young men around them all the time.
Here's one current story: Kirby and his roommate and some others who
work with them at Blizzard in Austin all talked about using a bonus
they thought they were getting (still might) to go to Las Vegas to be
there on Talk Like a Pirate Day, at Treasure Island (or stay
somewhere, but to be there that weekend). The bonus hasn't come
through as they thought it would yet, so some of them can't afford to
go and others are going.
Kirby's roommate has also invited a lot of his high school friends
from here to meet them there. They all plan to drink and gamble.
Kirby (22) told me he's still planning to go, but he's not wanting to
gamble any more than some small limited amount, if any, and doesn't
much like to drink. One other guy who's going is kind of that way so
Kirby figures some of the time he'll only have that one other guy to
hang out with. He knows there's still lots of stuff to do there, and
I'm sure he'll have fun, but I think most 22 year olds with a healthy
bank account and a trip to Las Vegas booked already would not be
calling their moms to say it doesn't sound all that fun or productive.
And lest anyone think that means Kirby's a shy mama's boy, he is not.
Marty (19) is working at a restaurant so most of his income is cash
every day after the shift, his percentage of the waiters' tips (he's
bussing tables at a Persian restaurant). He comes home, counts it,
writes the amount in a notebook, and then I'm not sure exactly what,
but sometimes he gives Keith a pile of bills and Keith electronically
transfers that amount from our account to Marty's savings.
The other day someone was playing Rock Band with Marty and wanted to
download Metallica or some such. Marty said "I don't have $15." I
objected to the lie, but what Marty meant was he didn't have $15 in
his video game/entertainment budget. He's making payments on his
jeep and putting half his pay in savings.
Holly was making fun of him behind his back the other day, but in a
pretty complimentary way. She said it was interesting that Marty had
the Dodd-family genes (remember I'm only a Dodd by marriage; she's
not talking about me!) and would say "I can't spend that money, it's
for my grandchildren's college fund!" She was making up a humorous
example, but he really, truly, at the age of 19, is thinking of his
distant future.
Kids their age in school have many other things to think about. More
"real life"? Some would claim so. Things like exams, homework,
reports, a "healthy" social life (drinking and gambling and running
around). My kids have lots of social life--enough that they're not
desperate for attention or getting out of the house.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ed Wendell
Ed and Zac (14) are downstairs watching Muppets Christmas Carol - go figure - :) - We were at Block Buster yesterday and Muppets movies were what he rented. He did not care that it was Labor Day weekend and one of his choices was a Christmas movie and all his choices came from the "kiddy isle" at Block Buster. Yesterday he climbed into my lap (he is taller than I am) and snuggled for a couple of minutes. The laughter coming from the family room is great. He did need us with him for "The Muppet Caper" because some of the jokes are so 1970's-80's oriented sometimes we have to pause the CD and explain - Same for MASH and Hogan's Heroes which he likes.
Least people think he always chooses from the kiddy isle - so not true - War movies with fantastic battle scenes are his most favorite.
He is very secure in what he likes and does not like - he does not do something just because everyone else does it / likes it.
I could focus on his (what do I call them? society would call them problems? Dyslexia/Dysgraphia/slow processing speed but with profound Giftedness) - for example he wrote us a note the other day saying "ant jane sid Hi" what he was saying was "Aunt Janny said hi." I chose to just read it / decipher it and say thank you for giving us the message. It was actually amazing that he wrote it in the first place. He usually never writes. Plus his spelling is really improving as he goes along. Oh and the other amazing thing was he had been on My Space chatting with her - this was a first for him - to chat in writing / typing with anyone. He is more and more asking how do you spell - wanting to get it correct. We were not at home when he did the chat with his Aunt Janny so we were not available - though he has called us on our cell phones to ask how to spell something in the past.
Just yesterday he was talking about going to college. How he will need to go to get a decent paying job - I chose to discuss with him that there are many paths in life that lead to joy and making enough money to be comfortable. We gave examples of various trades and self-owned businesses that people do. Then he talked about how college will be so hard for him because he does not read and write well nor is he good at math (THANK YOU SCHOOL FOR THAT PART OF HIS LIFE - we pulled him from mid-third grade) anyway his father and I talked with him about how things change and he might be good at it by then or if he really wants to go to college then he would have the drive and passion to figure it out at that point in time. AND if he chooses to go to college we will be there to help if he wants us to.
Lisa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Least people think he always chooses from the kiddy isle - so not true - War movies with fantastic battle scenes are his most favorite.
He is very secure in what he likes and does not like - he does not do something just because everyone else does it / likes it.
I could focus on his (what do I call them? society would call them problems? Dyslexia/Dysgraphia/slow processing speed but with profound Giftedness) - for example he wrote us a note the other day saying "ant jane sid Hi" what he was saying was "Aunt Janny said hi." I chose to just read it / decipher it and say thank you for giving us the message. It was actually amazing that he wrote it in the first place. He usually never writes. Plus his spelling is really improving as he goes along. Oh and the other amazing thing was he had been on My Space chatting with her - this was a first for him - to chat in writing / typing with anyone. He is more and more asking how do you spell - wanting to get it correct. We were not at home when he did the chat with his Aunt Janny so we were not available - though he has called us on our cell phones to ask how to spell something in the past.
Just yesterday he was talking about going to college. How he will need to go to get a decent paying job - I chose to discuss with him that there are many paths in life that lead to joy and making enough money to be comfortable. We gave examples of various trades and self-owned businesses that people do. Then he talked about how college will be so hard for him because he does not read and write well nor is he good at math (THANK YOU SCHOOL FOR THAT PART OF HIS LIFE - we pulled him from mid-third grade) anyway his father and I talked with him about how things change and he might be good at it by then or if he really wants to go to college then he would have the drive and passion to figure it out at that point in time. AND if he chooses to go to college we will be there to help if he wants us to.
Lisa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
The e-mail below the line was sent to me instead of to the list, but
it's not about me privately. I'll comment in another post.
Anytime I get insulting private mail, I'm glad to share it publicly.
Those who think I shouldn't should stay far away from me, because I'm
telling you now, I don't want to be assaulted without feeling I have
the right to report it, so anyone who likes private attacks and wants
to hold me to some kind of secrecy about it can just forget it.
Sandra
========================================================================
========
"We're not teaching. We're not attacking."
People on the list ARE attacking, and incredibly offensive, twisting
words and meanings!
If you really wanted to get the unschooling message out, perhaps you
and your listmates should consider guiding others rather than
expecting them to know all of your rules. Sharing experiences goes
so much further than nasty attacks.
"Nobody's asking anyone to accept anything. It's a big wide world,
and a DAMNED big internet. Nobody in any way has tried to keep
people on this list. "
I didn't say anyone told me to stay. I am telling you why I left,
though I am sure you could care less. But I care and it needed to be
said, even if on deaf ears.
Also, anyone who doesn't agree with you gets attacked. If they try
to start their own list, that idea and list is attacked. Talk about
being "an adult."
"You must not have unschooled long enough to see the proof in your
own family, but hundreds of families here have done so. It doesn't
take a lifetime to "prove" the benefit. People can benefit within an
hour of seeing a different way and just lightening up."
The point about unschooling being unproven was not that it doesn't
work, just that it's not the only unproven thing that does work.
" You, whoever you are reading this, joined this list. Be adult about
it. If you go into a bar or restaurant and you decide to leave, do
you make an tacky insulting speech on the way out? If you start
reading a book and decide not to finish it, do you call the author
and say "Your book sucks!"?
If I read a book as offensive as the list has been, I would contact
the writer. Though most of the offensive statements came not from
you, but other members. Since it is your list, the complaint goes to
you. At a restuarant. if I got horrible service or food, or the
staff was offensive, I'd alert the manager. This is adult behavior.
Your desire to undermine me is not.
If I owned a list that was alienating people, offending them, I'd
want to know. I certainly wouldn't try to slam them, or take their
energy! Take your own advise, be adult about it. Remember all of us
are someone's child, all worthy of respect and honesty and kindness.
We are worthy of the same kindness we'd want for our children.
From one person who was once a child to another, I hope your list
fills your needs, and I shall look to fill my needs elsewhere.
=============================================
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
it's not about me privately. I'll comment in another post.
Anytime I get insulting private mail, I'm glad to share it publicly.
Those who think I shouldn't should stay far away from me, because I'm
telling you now, I don't want to be assaulted without feeling I have
the right to report it, so anyone who likes private attacks and wants
to hold me to some kind of secrecy about it can just forget it.
Sandra
========================================================================
========
"We're not teaching. We're not attacking."
People on the list ARE attacking, and incredibly offensive, twisting
words and meanings!
If you really wanted to get the unschooling message out, perhaps you
and your listmates should consider guiding others rather than
expecting them to know all of your rules. Sharing experiences goes
so much further than nasty attacks.
"Nobody's asking anyone to accept anything. It's a big wide world,
and a DAMNED big internet. Nobody in any way has tried to keep
people on this list. "
I didn't say anyone told me to stay. I am telling you why I left,
though I am sure you could care less. But I care and it needed to be
said, even if on deaf ears.
Also, anyone who doesn't agree with you gets attacked. If they try
to start their own list, that idea and list is attacked. Talk about
being "an adult."
"You must not have unschooled long enough to see the proof in your
own family, but hundreds of families here have done so. It doesn't
take a lifetime to "prove" the benefit. People can benefit within an
hour of seeing a different way and just lightening up."
The point about unschooling being unproven was not that it doesn't
work, just that it's not the only unproven thing that does work.
" You, whoever you are reading this, joined this list. Be adult about
it. If you go into a bar or restaurant and you decide to leave, do
you make an tacky insulting speech on the way out? If you start
reading a book and decide not to finish it, do you call the author
and say "Your book sucks!"?
If I read a book as offensive as the list has been, I would contact
the writer. Though most of the offensive statements came not from
you, but other members. Since it is your list, the complaint goes to
you. At a restuarant. if I got horrible service or food, or the
staff was offensive, I'd alert the manager. This is adult behavior.
Your desire to undermine me is not.
If I owned a list that was alienating people, offending them, I'd
want to know. I certainly wouldn't try to slam them, or take their
energy! Take your own advise, be adult about it. Remember all of us
are someone's child, all worthy of respect and honesty and kindness.
We are worthy of the same kindness we'd want for our children.
From one person who was once a child to another, I hope your list
fills your needs, and I shall look to fill my needs elsewhere.
=============================================
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn L. Coburn
According to Star Trek, it's one of the defining characteristics of homo
sapiens.
See "The Menagerie" for a good example.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
<<<<> When did not wanting to be controlled turn into a "disorder"
anyway???>>>>
sapiens.
See "The Menagerie" for a good example.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
<<<<> When did not wanting to be controlled turn into a "disorder"
anyway???>>>>
diana jenner
-=-If you really wanted to get the unschooling message out, perhaps you and
your listmates should consider guiding others rather than
expecting them to know all of your rules. Sharing experiences goes so much
further than nasty attacks.-=-
And while we're at it, we can store the children in a state of suspended
animation so they don't grow up without an enlightened parent.
Oh wait, that's only on Futurama :D (and Idiocracy, hee hee hee)
Looks like I'm gonna have to continue to be in a hurry to BE the parent my
kids needs, right NOW, because there's no way for him to wait for me to "get
it."
I spent the morning on the bike with the dog, listening to "The Power of
Now" -- holy crapoly! What insights! When an idea is presented that is at
odds with the ego, the ego sees it's own death. THAT is why we fear new
thoughts, even those good for us: the ego stands in the way. Thank you,
thank you, thank you to the many who have contributed to my Ego's
(continuing) death and helped to shift my focus to the NOW (where the ego
cannot live, it is totally based on past and future). If not for the
Kicks-in-the-Pants, I'd still be a puddle of victimous goo from my
childhood. I think we're ALL happy I'm not still there :D
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
your listmates should consider guiding others rather than
expecting them to know all of your rules. Sharing experiences goes so much
further than nasty attacks.-=-
And while we're at it, we can store the children in a state of suspended
animation so they don't grow up without an enlightened parent.
Oh wait, that's only on Futurama :D (and Idiocracy, hee hee hee)
Looks like I'm gonna have to continue to be in a hurry to BE the parent my
kids needs, right NOW, because there's no way for him to wait for me to "get
it."
I spent the morning on the bike with the dog, listening to "The Power of
Now" -- holy crapoly! What insights! When an idea is presented that is at
odds with the ego, the ego sees it's own death. THAT is why we fear new
thoughts, even those good for us: the ego stands in the way. Thank you,
thank you, thank you to the many who have contributed to my Ego's
(continuing) death and helped to shift my focus to the NOW (where the ego
cannot live, it is totally based on past and future). If not for the
Kicks-in-the-Pants, I'd still be a puddle of victimous goo from my
childhood. I think we're ALL happy I'm not still there :D
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=--=-If you really wanted to get the unschooling message out,-=-
I loved the "IF" in this.
-=--=-If you really wanted to get the unschooling message out,
perhaps you and
your listmates should consider guiding-=-
Every stopping place is a work of art, like a Zeffirelli movie, where
every frame is a beauty.
If I and my listmates really want to get the unschooling message
out... we should consider guiding.
Well we're up into message numbers like 37747 today, and will pass
into the 40 thousands before the end of the year. And I'm pretty
careful to keep those posts from being local or chit-chat so the vast
majority of them are solid, serious discussion of unschooling.
And there are other lists too:
http://sandradodd.com/lists/other
one that I'm also on (UnschoolingDiscussion@googlegroups) and several
I'm not on, and they're in the tens of thousands of posts, too, I think.
Then there's this:
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
and I post here:
http://unschoolinginfo.com/forum
and lately
http://familyrun.ning.com/
and another listmate maintains this collection:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
Trying to guide people away from divisive lists and bad advice gets
me insulting side mail, and yet I do not run off crying, partly
because several of those who slapped me with a "you suck" message
before storming out have come back and said "So... I looked around
and discovered the other resources aren't very good and I thought
about what you said and I'm back because our lives are better because
of what I read on this list" (or forum, or another list, or whatever).
Those who can do better should go and do it, but starting and then
abandoning a list that says labels won't hurt isn't better.
Sandra
I loved the "IF" in this.
-=--=-If you really wanted to get the unschooling message out,
perhaps you and
your listmates should consider guiding-=-
Every stopping place is a work of art, like a Zeffirelli movie, where
every frame is a beauty.
If I and my listmates really want to get the unschooling message
out... we should consider guiding.
Well we're up into message numbers like 37747 today, and will pass
into the 40 thousands before the end of the year. And I'm pretty
careful to keep those posts from being local or chit-chat so the vast
majority of them are solid, serious discussion of unschooling.
And there are other lists too:
http://sandradodd.com/lists/other
one that I'm also on (UnschoolingDiscussion@googlegroups) and several
I'm not on, and they're in the tens of thousands of posts, too, I think.
Then there's this:
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
and I post here:
http://unschoolinginfo.com/forum
and lately
http://familyrun.ning.com/
and another listmate maintains this collection:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
Trying to guide people away from divisive lists and bad advice gets
me insulting side mail, and yet I do not run off crying, partly
because several of those who slapped me with a "you suck" message
before storming out have come back and said "So... I looked around
and discovered the other resources aren't very good and I thought
about what you said and I'm back because our lives are better because
of what I read on this list" (or forum, or another list, or whatever).
Those who can do better should go and do it, but starting and then
abandoning a list that says labels won't hurt isn't better.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
-=-Also, anyone who doesn't agree with you gets attacked. If they try
to start their own list, that idea and list is attacked. Talk about
being "an adult."-=-
I don't think "attacked" is the word. Someone spammed members of
this list with a lie. It's okay for me to object to that.
Someone tried to use my list's reputation in the name of another list
to gain members. It's GOOD for me to object to that.
The tense used above is a present conditional (it's not present
progressive, but close), I think (spot me, Ren) which carries the
implication that it is an ongoing, regular occurence that there are
other lists created by people who are attacked here and that then
their ideas and their new lists are attacked. Plural and present and
continuing.
I don't mind if people don't care about verb tenses or the
technicalities of language, but if someone is going to use English,
use it carefully and honestly. If the writer accidentally accused me
of continuously doing something that wasn't even done once, it's like
using a gun carelessly, shooting something, and saying "Well I don't
know how to use a gun anyway." Either use English carefully or don't
point it at me.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to start their own list, that idea and list is attacked. Talk about
being "an adult."-=-
I don't think "attacked" is the word. Someone spammed members of
this list with a lie. It's okay for me to object to that.
Someone tried to use my list's reputation in the name of another list
to gain members. It's GOOD for me to object to that.
The tense used above is a present conditional (it's not present
progressive, but close), I think (spot me, Ren) which carries the
implication that it is an ongoing, regular occurence that there are
other lists created by people who are attacked here and that then
their ideas and their new lists are attacked. Plural and present and
continuing.
I don't mind if people don't care about verb tenses or the
technicalities of language, but if someone is going to use English,
use it carefully and honestly. If the writer accidentally accused me
of continuously doing something that wasn't even done once, it's like
using a gun carelessly, shooting something, and saying "Well I don't
know how to use a gun anyway." Either use English carefully or don't
point it at me.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-If I read a book as offensive as the list has been, I would contact
the writer. Though most of the offensive statements came not from
you, but other members.-=-
The first is ridiculous and the second is false. I'm sure most of
the alleged offense comes from me, because I'm the bravest and it's
my list so I'm the least likely to tiptoe.
I already have enemies and stalkers and a few people whose only claim
to fame is their assertions that I have it in for them or something
(and when I'm shown the report of how I really don't like them, I
don't recognize their names). There was one, once on AOL. She was
always up and noisy about how people should ignore me because I was
awful, and her ideas were just as good as anyone's.
A few years later I had e-mail from someone who had met her at a park
day wherever she lived (not around here; she had never met me) and
she was going on about how when she was on AOL she butted heads with
me or whatever. AND the crowning glory of the story was that her
kids had never yet finished a whole year at home. Every year they'd
gone back to school. Each year she would change and change her
unschooling methods or theories and her kids would want to go to school.
If her theory was "never decide and let life be ever-changing and
chaotic," I don't think it's a better idea than mine. If her idea
was to spend hours of energy (many hours) concentrating on me and
talking about me instead of being with her kids, that's a really bad
idea.
Negativity isn't as good as joy and happiness. I'm sure someone will
want to argue with that, but I'm a pretty good shot with English and
I'm sure that happiness is happier than unhappiness.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the writer. Though most of the offensive statements came not from
you, but other members.-=-
The first is ridiculous and the second is false. I'm sure most of
the alleged offense comes from me, because I'm the bravest and it's
my list so I'm the least likely to tiptoe.
I already have enemies and stalkers and a few people whose only claim
to fame is their assertions that I have it in for them or something
(and when I'm shown the report of how I really don't like them, I
don't recognize their names). There was one, once on AOL. She was
always up and noisy about how people should ignore me because I was
awful, and her ideas were just as good as anyone's.
A few years later I had e-mail from someone who had met her at a park
day wherever she lived (not around here; she had never met me) and
she was going on about how when she was on AOL she butted heads with
me or whatever. AND the crowning glory of the story was that her
kids had never yet finished a whole year at home. Every year they'd
gone back to school. Each year she would change and change her
unschooling methods or theories and her kids would want to go to school.
If her theory was "never decide and let life be ever-changing and
chaotic," I don't think it's a better idea than mine. If her idea
was to spend hours of energy (many hours) concentrating on me and
talking about me instead of being with her kids, that's a really bad
idea.
Negativity isn't as good as joy and happiness. I'm sure someone will
want to argue with that, but I'm a pretty good shot with English and
I'm sure that happiness is happier than unhappiness.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-The point about unschooling being unproven was not that it doesn't
work, just that it's not the only unproven thing that does work.-=-
It's the only thing this list is about, though.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
work, just that it's not the only unproven thing that does work.-=-
It's the only thing this list is about, though.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Remember all of us
are someone's child, all worthy of respect and honesty and kindness.
We are worthy of the same kindness we'd want for our children.-=-
These are my children:
Kirby Dodd
Marty Dodd
Holly Dodd.
I've helped some other people with their kids when they asked, and
I've had lots of kids in and out of my house, but I didn't have to
help them.
I don't "have to" help my own kids, either. I'm an American. I
could spank them with boards or belts. I could lock them up and
insult them. I chose not to.
Here are some other people's children, not all worthy of respect and
kindness:
Charles Manson
Clyde Barrow
Ed Guin
Ted Bundy
David Berkowitz
Pol Pot
Idi Amin
Adolf Hitler
Mark David Chapman
James Earl Ray
Ah, there are thousands of other bad examples. I have three
children. None of the moms on this list are my children and I
shouldn't be expected to treat them like children.
I'm interested in helping other adult parents live in such ways that
their children don't grow up like those on the second list there, nor
like the crushed and unhappy people who were told by school that they
were failures and defectives and who work minimum wage jobs and drink
and never try to do anything creative or to explore the world,
because they were branded and wounded by years of school.
I'm not trying to do this, I'm doing it. It's not "If."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
are someone's child, all worthy of respect and honesty and kindness.
We are worthy of the same kindness we'd want for our children.-=-
These are my children:
Kirby Dodd
Marty Dodd
Holly Dodd.
I've helped some other people with their kids when they asked, and
I've had lots of kids in and out of my house, but I didn't have to
help them.
I don't "have to" help my own kids, either. I'm an American. I
could spank them with boards or belts. I could lock them up and
insult them. I chose not to.
Here are some other people's children, not all worthy of respect and
kindness:
Charles Manson
Clyde Barrow
Ed Guin
Ted Bundy
David Berkowitz
Pol Pot
Idi Amin
Adolf Hitler
Mark David Chapman
James Earl Ray
Ah, there are thousands of other bad examples. I have three
children. None of the moms on this list are my children and I
shouldn't be expected to treat them like children.
I'm interested in helping other adult parents live in such ways that
their children don't grow up like those on the second list there, nor
like the crushed and unhappy people who were told by school that they
were failures and defectives and who work minimum wage jobs and drink
and never try to do anything creative or to explore the world,
because they were branded and wounded by years of school.
I'm not trying to do this, I'm doing it. It's not "If."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
diana jenner
I wish someone had kicked my mom in the pants when it came to her parenting,
and her mom and her mom...
I can spend my days wishing or I can spend my days doing what needs to be
done *now* -- I can't reclaim my mom's childhood, nor my own -- what I can
do is focus on the ONE childhood I can do something about: Hayden's. And in
that gift to my son, I also gift my mother and all the mothers before her
with a descendant who remains (relatively) victimless to our lousy parenting
history & create a whole new future of amazing *right nows* :D
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
and her mom and her mom...
I can spend my days wishing or I can spend my days doing what needs to be
done *now* -- I can't reclaim my mom's childhood, nor my own -- what I can
do is focus on the ONE childhood I can do something about: Hayden's. And in
that gift to my son, I also gift my mother and all the mothers before her
with a descendant who remains (relatively) victimless to our lousy parenting
history & create a whole new future of amazing *right nows* :D
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> -=-Remember all of us
> are someone's child, all worthy of respect and honesty and kindness.
> We are worthy of the same kindness we'd want for our children.-=-
>
> These are my children:
>
> Kirby Dodd
>
> Marty Dodd
>
> Holly Dodd.
>
> I've helped some other people with their kids when they asked, and
> I've had lots of kids in and out of my house, but I didn't have to
> help them.
>
> I don't "have to" help my own kids, either. I'm an American. I
> could spank them with boards or belts. I could lock them up and
> insult them. I chose not to.
>
> Here are some other people's children, not all worthy of respect and
> kindness:
>
> Charles Manson
>
> Clyde Barrow
>
> Ed Guin
>
> Ted Bundy
>
> David Berkowitz
>
> Pol Pot
>
> Idi Amin
>
> Adolf Hitler
>
> Mark David Chapman
>
> James Earl Ray
>
> Ah, there are thousands of other bad examples. I have three
> children. None of the moms on this list are my children and I
> shouldn't be expected to treat them like children.
>
> I'm interested in helping other adult parents live in such ways that
> their children don't grow up like those on the second list there, nor
> like the crushed and unhappy people who were told by school that they
> were failures and defectives and who work minimum wage jobs and drink
> and never try to do anything creative or to explore the world,
> because they were branded and wounded by years of school.
>
> I'm not trying to do this, I'm doing it. It's not "If."
>
> .
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-what I can
do is focus on the ONE childhood I can do something about: Hayden's.
And in
that gift to my son, I also gift my mother and all the mothers before
her
with a descendant who remains (relatively) victimless to our lousy
parenting
history & create a whole new future of amazing *right nows* :D-=-
True, Diana, but I'm grateful that you do much more than that. You
share your thoughts and experiences with thousands of other moms by
writing online and having a blog and speaking at conferences, so that
Hayden's not the only one who benefits.
Thanks!
(Or, if you want to try to help people unschool, just keep on doing
what you're doing, I guess.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
do is focus on the ONE childhood I can do something about: Hayden's.
And in
that gift to my son, I also gift my mother and all the mothers before
her
with a descendant who remains (relatively) victimless to our lousy
parenting
history & create a whole new future of amazing *right nows* :D-=-
True, Diana, but I'm grateful that you do much more than that. You
share your thoughts and experiences with thousands of other moms by
writing online and having a blog and speaking at conferences, so that
Hayden's not the only one who benefits.
Thanks!
(Or, if you want to try to help people unschool, just keep on doing
what you're doing, I guess.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/31/2008 3:44:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Sandra@... writes:
<<<"We're not teaching. We're not attacking."
People on the list ARE attacking, and incredibly offensive, twisting
words and meanings!
If you really wanted to get the unschooling message out, perhaps you
and your listmates should consider guiding others rather than
expecting them to know all of your rules. Sharing experiences goes
so much further than nasty attacks.>>>
Reading responses like this makes me so sad. And a bit frustrated. It
reminds me of my attitude when I first came to unschooling *discussion* boards
(namely, Unschooling Discussion). If people who felt so offended and so attacked
would just quit making *so much noise* and *listen*, they would get
unschooling so much quicker. But, I think that's a process... Folks who like to
"harrumph" and bluster and take offense need to run out of steam and ammunition
before they can pause a moment to breathe, and in *that* process, the listening
*just* starts to happen. If luck holds, they'll continue to listen....
Peace,
De
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra@... writes:
<<<"We're not teaching. We're not attacking."
People on the list ARE attacking, and incredibly offensive, twisting
words and meanings!
If you really wanted to get the unschooling message out, perhaps you
and your listmates should consider guiding others rather than
expecting them to know all of your rules. Sharing experiences goes
so much further than nasty attacks.>>>
Reading responses like this makes me so sad. And a bit frustrated. It
reminds me of my attitude when I first came to unschooling *discussion* boards
(namely, Unschooling Discussion). If people who felt so offended and so attacked
would just quit making *so much noise* and *listen*, they would get
unschooling so much quicker. But, I think that's a process... Folks who like to
"harrumph" and bluster and take offense need to run out of steam and ammunition
before they can pause a moment to breathe, and in *that* process, the listening
*just* starts to happen. If luck holds, they'll continue to listen....
Peace,
De
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Sandra. I just had to share that my husband Brian calls you ( lovingly)
Sandra Godd. It is just funny. He will come in and ask when I am in the computer
if I reading Sandra Godd again.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Godd. It is just funny. He will come in and ask when I am in the computer
if I reading Sandra Godd again.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-He will come in and ask when I am in the computer
if I reading Sandra Godd again.-=-
Ask him to cut it out. It's a good way to get someone crucified. :-)
I have enough problems with using my regular, real name.
Sandra
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if I reading Sandra Godd again.-=-
Ask him to cut it out. It's a good way to get someone crucified. :-)
I have enough problems with using my regular, real name.
Sandra
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Robyn L. Coburn
<<<<> -=-The point about unschooling being unproven was not that it doesn't
and young adults do we have to have before we can stop saying "unproven"?
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
> work, just that it's not the only unproven thing that does work.-=-How many happy, well adjusted, successful, loving, (did I say Happy?) kids
>
> It's the only thing this list is about, though.>>>
and young adults do we have to have before we can stop saying "unproven"?
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
k
Well I've seen a lot of pudding with proof lately --if that's anything to go
by. Purely anecdotal I know. I like to think of it as a qualitative
study. ;)
~Katherine
by. Purely anecdotal I know. I like to think of it as a qualitative
study. ;)
~Katherine
On 9/1/08, Robyn L. Coburn <dezigna@...> wrote:
>
> <<<<> -=-The point about unschooling being unproven was not that it
> doesn't
> > work, just that it's not the only unproven thing that does work.-=-
> >
> > It's the only thing this list is about, though.>>>
>
> How many happy, well adjusted, successful, loving, (did I say Happy?) kids
> and young adults do we have to have before we can stop saying "unproven"?
>
> Robyn L. Coburn
> www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
> www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lyndaquincunx
--- In [email protected], "diana jenner" <hahamommy@...>
wrote:
it', every bit as much as they need me. Scientists mostly learn
through trying stuff & observing what happens. If what happens doesn't
fit their theories, they think up new theories, not cling to the old
ones & try to twist the experiment to make it fit.
Lynda
wrote:
> And while we're at it, we can store the children in a state of suspendedparent my
> animation so they don't grow up without an enlightened parent.
> Oh wait, that's only on Futurama :D (and Idiocracy, hee hee hee)
> Looks like I'm gonna have to continue to be in a hurry to BE the
> kids needs, right NOW, because there's no way for him to wait for meto "get
> it."I don't know about anyone else, but I find I need them to help me 'get
>
it', every bit as much as they need me. Scientists mostly learn
through trying stuff & observing what happens. If what happens doesn't
fit their theories, they think up new theories, not cling to the old
ones & try to twist the experiment to make it fit.
Lynda
Steve Cooperman
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
from slavery of any kind).
Steve Cooperman
>I guess that makes me a drapetophile (someone who loves to run away
> There's a disease for wanting to run away from slavery, too.
> And there's a disease for not wanting to go to school, too.
>
from slavery of any kind).
Steve Cooperman
appletreereader
Hi,
Karen's invite to join another list is not the only invite I have
received from those on this list; however, it was the most disturbing.
I read through (my own mistake) all the info on labels and the
description of Karen's child and a few other descriptions of behaviors
and started to think--that sounds just like my son and I got an
uncomfortable feeling in the pit of my stomach--not appreciated. You
know, desire to discuss labels is one thing, but to promote their use
is quite another. Karen implied that there was no free discussion of
labels on this list and that she wanted this topic to be discussed--
well, labels is about all that has been written about lately so I would
say that she got her wish. Unfortunately harm can come from putting
your personal needs above the needs of others.
In my opinion, the only place labels belong are on the backs of
clothing and even those scratch, irritate, and leave marks a lot of the
time.
Going back to not thinking about labels!
Sheila
Karen's invite to join another list is not the only invite I have
received from those on this list; however, it was the most disturbing.
I read through (my own mistake) all the info on labels and the
description of Karen's child and a few other descriptions of behaviors
and started to think--that sounds just like my son and I got an
uncomfortable feeling in the pit of my stomach--not appreciated. You
know, desire to discuss labels is one thing, but to promote their use
is quite another. Karen implied that there was no free discussion of
labels on this list and that she wanted this topic to be discussed--
well, labels is about all that has been written about lately so I would
say that she got her wish. Unfortunately harm can come from putting
your personal needs above the needs of others.
In my opinion, the only place labels belong are on the backs of
clothing and even those scratch, irritate, and leave marks a lot of the
time.
Going back to not thinking about labels!
Sheila
donnakeeble
> In my opinion, the only place labels belong are on the backs ofDS 12 and DS 5 have pretty much removed all the labels from their
> clothing and even those scratch, irritate, and leave marks a lot of the
> time.
>
> Going back to not thinking about labels!
> Sheila
>
clothes. The 12 year old has been known to wear his underwear inside
out to avoid those tags because they are more difficult to remove.
Donna