Draft of Letter to Abuser
Belinda
To all of you in the group:
Thank you for all of the advice you've already given, and for the
help you are about to give in this letter endeavor. Here is the draft
of the letter to my mother. Feel FREE to change or add to this letter
to make it not feel threatening to her. FYI: Mamaw was my mother's
mother who just died in April and was EVIL!! My mother hated her yet
took care of her for about 15 years after several strokes and the
last 2 years she was completely bedridden yet my mother wouldn't put
her in a nursing home out of 'obligation'. No one liked her. Also,
April, Tyler and Nora are the names of my grown children.
Dear Mom:
I love you. I want to be there for you when you need
something and to have a good relationship with you.
However, I won't keep listening to the insults or bringing
Lacey over to be insulted. I want you to be a good grandmother to
her. The kind of grandmother you used to be when April was small. Not
the kind of Mamaw that I had the one that hurt with her words and
always put me down for not living up to her unrealistic expectations
of me.
Others feel the same way, but they are afraid to confront
you. Because of their fear they are willing to keep putting up with
the verbal and emotional abuse to them and their children out of a
sense of obligation to you. I do feel an obligation to you because I
want to help you. I have been there for you when your other children
left you. I want to continue to be in your life, but I have an
obligation to Lacey to keep her from being abused. You are crushing
her spirit as Mamaw crushed mine. Your abuse is much the same as
Mamaw's was and I am hoping that you can look within yourself and see
this and perhaps make an effort to change. For all of your family
that are still in your life.
April, Tyler and Nora are grown and can make their own
decisions. If you want them to visit, try calling them and asking
them to come see you. That usually works. They don't think that you
want them to come over because of the way you've talked to them and
about them in the past. I'm no longer going to be the go-between with
you and them. If you want to be a grandmother to them and a great-
grandmother to their children, then you have to make an effort.
There is no longer the excuse of having to take care of Mamaw for not
going by to see your grandkids or me. You don't need an invitation to
come to my house or to go see them. How many times have you passed
right by my house and not stopped to see me? Yet you complain when we
don't come to see you. You think we are mad at you when we don't call
you or come visit you, yet you don't make any effort to call or come
see us.
(I don't know how to end this!! Something to the effect of `The next
move is yours'???)
Belinda
Thank you for all of the advice you've already given, and for the
help you are about to give in this letter endeavor. Here is the draft
of the letter to my mother. Feel FREE to change or add to this letter
to make it not feel threatening to her. FYI: Mamaw was my mother's
mother who just died in April and was EVIL!! My mother hated her yet
took care of her for about 15 years after several strokes and the
last 2 years she was completely bedridden yet my mother wouldn't put
her in a nursing home out of 'obligation'. No one liked her. Also,
April, Tyler and Nora are the names of my grown children.
Dear Mom:
I love you. I want to be there for you when you need
something and to have a good relationship with you.
However, I won't keep listening to the insults or bringing
Lacey over to be insulted. I want you to be a good grandmother to
her. The kind of grandmother you used to be when April was small. Not
the kind of Mamaw that I had the one that hurt with her words and
always put me down for not living up to her unrealistic expectations
of me.
Others feel the same way, but they are afraid to confront
you. Because of their fear they are willing to keep putting up with
the verbal and emotional abuse to them and their children out of a
sense of obligation to you. I do feel an obligation to you because I
want to help you. I have been there for you when your other children
left you. I want to continue to be in your life, but I have an
obligation to Lacey to keep her from being abused. You are crushing
her spirit as Mamaw crushed mine. Your abuse is much the same as
Mamaw's was and I am hoping that you can look within yourself and see
this and perhaps make an effort to change. For all of your family
that are still in your life.
April, Tyler and Nora are grown and can make their own
decisions. If you want them to visit, try calling them and asking
them to come see you. That usually works. They don't think that you
want them to come over because of the way you've talked to them and
about them in the past. I'm no longer going to be the go-between with
you and them. If you want to be a grandmother to them and a great-
grandmother to their children, then you have to make an effort.
There is no longer the excuse of having to take care of Mamaw for not
going by to see your grandkids or me. You don't need an invitation to
come to my house or to go see them. How many times have you passed
right by my house and not stopped to see me? Yet you complain when we
don't come to see you. You think we are mad at you when we don't call
you or come visit you, yet you don't make any effort to call or come
see us.
(I don't know how to end this!! Something to the effect of `The next
move is yours'???)
Belinda
Cameron Parham
I am so sorry, but I notice that you address your mother in this letter as though she is reasonable, logical, and self-aware. It has not been my experience that people who are acting as you describe have these qualities.� I wonder if you have ever seen the very short, very practical book entitled Children of the Self Absorbed.� A great survival/coping manual.� Cameron�
----- Original Message ----
From: Belinda <b.newbold@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 6:40:36 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Draft of Letter to Abuser
To all of you in the group:
Thank you for all of the advice you've already given, and for the
help you are about to give in this letter endeavor. Here is the draft
of the letter to my mother. Feel FREE to change or add to this letter
to make it not feel threatening to her. FYI: Mamaw was my mother's
mother who just died in April and was EVIL!! My mother hated her yet
took care of her for about 15 years after several strokes and the
last 2 years she was completely bedridden yet my mother wouldn't put
her in a nursing home out of 'obligation' . No one liked her. Also,
April, Tyler and Nora are the names of my grown children.
Dear Mom:
I love you. I want to be there for you when you need
something and to have a good relationship with you.
However, I won't keep listening to the insults or bringing
Lacey over to be insulted. I want you to be a good grandmother to
her. The kind of grandmother you used to be when April was small. Not
the kind of Mamaw that I had � the one that hurt with her words and
always put me down for not living up to her unrealistic expectations
of me.
Others feel the same way, but they are afraid to confront
you. Because of their fear they are willing to keep putting up with
the verbal and emotional abuse to them and their children out of a
sense of obligation to you. I do feel an obligation to you because I
want to help you. I have been there for you when your other children
left you. I want to continue to be in your life, but I have an
obligation to Lacey to keep her from being abused. You are crushing
her spirit as Mamaw crushed mine. Your abuse is much the same as
Mamaw's was and I am hoping that you can look within yourself and see
this and perhaps make an effort to change. For all of your family
that are still in your life.
April, Tyler and Nora are grown and can make their own
decisions. If you want them to visit, try calling them and asking
them to come see you. That usually works. They don't think that you
want them to come over because of the way you've talked to them and
about them in the past. I'm no longer going to be the go-between with
you and them. If you want to be a grandmother to them and a great-
grandmother to their children, then you have to make an effort.
There is no longer the excuse of having to take care of Mamaw for not
going by to see your grandkids or me. You don't need an invitation to
come to my house or to go see them. How many times have you passed
right by my house and not stopped to see me? Yet you complain when we
don't come to see you. You think we are mad at you when we don't call
you or come visit you, yet you don't make any effort to call or come
see us.
(I don't know how to end this!! Something to the effect of `The next
move is yours'???)
Belinda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----- Original Message ----
From: Belinda <b.newbold@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 6:40:36 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Draft of Letter to Abuser
To all of you in the group:
Thank you for all of the advice you've already given, and for the
help you are about to give in this letter endeavor. Here is the draft
of the letter to my mother. Feel FREE to change or add to this letter
to make it not feel threatening to her. FYI: Mamaw was my mother's
mother who just died in April and was EVIL!! My mother hated her yet
took care of her for about 15 years after several strokes and the
last 2 years she was completely bedridden yet my mother wouldn't put
her in a nursing home out of 'obligation' . No one liked her. Also,
April, Tyler and Nora are the names of my grown children.
Dear Mom:
I love you. I want to be there for you when you need
something and to have a good relationship with you.
However, I won't keep listening to the insults or bringing
Lacey over to be insulted. I want you to be a good grandmother to
her. The kind of grandmother you used to be when April was small. Not
the kind of Mamaw that I had � the one that hurt with her words and
always put me down for not living up to her unrealistic expectations
of me.
Others feel the same way, but they are afraid to confront
you. Because of their fear they are willing to keep putting up with
the verbal and emotional abuse to them and their children out of a
sense of obligation to you. I do feel an obligation to you because I
want to help you. I have been there for you when your other children
left you. I want to continue to be in your life, but I have an
obligation to Lacey to keep her from being abused. You are crushing
her spirit as Mamaw crushed mine. Your abuse is much the same as
Mamaw's was and I am hoping that you can look within yourself and see
this and perhaps make an effort to change. For all of your family
that are still in your life.
April, Tyler and Nora are grown and can make their own
decisions. If you want them to visit, try calling them and asking
them to come see you. That usually works. They don't think that you
want them to come over because of the way you've talked to them and
about them in the past. I'm no longer going to be the go-between with
you and them. If you want to be a grandmother to them and a great-
grandmother to their children, then you have to make an effort.
There is no longer the excuse of having to take care of Mamaw for not
going by to see your grandkids or me. You don't need an invitation to
come to my house or to go see them. How many times have you passed
right by my house and not stopped to see me? Yet you complain when we
don't come to see you. You think we are mad at you when we don't call
you or come visit you, yet you don't make any effort to call or come
see us.
(I don't know how to end this!! Something to the effect of `The next
move is yours'???)
Belinda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 30, 2008, at 8:40 PM, Belinda wrote:
You have a sanctuary right now. Keep it!
If you would like her to come by, let her know she can call and ask
if it's convenient.
Though I don't think it's a good idea. At her house you can get up
and leave if she's misbehaving. It will be harder for you to get her
out of your house if she's acting up.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> You don't need an invitation toI would definitely *not* give her an open invitation to your house.
> come to my house or to go see them. How many times have you passed
> right by my house and not stopped to see me?
You have a sanctuary right now. Keep it!
If you would like her to come by, let her know she can call and ask
if it's convenient.
Though I don't think it's a good idea. At her house you can get up
and leave if she's misbehaving. It will be harder for you to get her
out of your house if she's acting up.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
My initial instinct is that there is a lot of blame. Understandable of
course, but is there a way to make it about your feelings, rather than
how she makes you feel? This is an important step, one in which there
isn't an argument. If it's about YOUR feelings, she can't counter it,
but if you make it about how she MAKES you feel, there is plenty for her
to argue to fuel her fire.
course, but is there a way to make it about your feelings, rather than
how she makes you feel? This is an important step, one in which there
isn't an argument. If it's about YOUR feelings, she can't counter it,
but if you make it about how she MAKES you feel, there is plenty for her
to argue to fuel her fire.
Sandra Dodd
-=-Dear Mom:
I love you. I want to be there for you when you need
something and to have a good relationship with you.
However, I-=-
I don't like the beginning. She's been manipulating and abusing, and if you start with "I
am willing to continue to be manipulated and abused, but..." she will only need to read the
first part to decide to continue as-is.
It's too long.
You talk about how you wish she was, and why you think she is, and how you'd like things
to be.
It's all too much.
Write it like you're paying 45 cents a word for a newspaper ad.
Don't even put "Dear Mom."
Here's a counter-suggestion:
*********
I've decided not to subject Lacey to abuse anymore. If you need anything I'll try to get by
there when I can, but I won't be bringing Lacey.
You mother was abusive, you're being abusive, and I've had enough abuse for this lifetime.
Belinda
********
(It's understood that the next move is hers; you don't need to say so.)
If she responds badly, here's letter two:
=================
If a stranger treated Lacey as you treat her, I would call the police. You don't get to do
that anymore. You never should have done it in the first place.
=================
If the religions aspect is important to you, you could add (the second time, not the first
one) "I have an obligation to make Lacey's life safe and peaceful, to protect her from harm.
Jesus wouldn't want you acting the way you act."
I think simple and direct is better than drawn out and whiney. What you wrote is an
attempt to make your mom feel guilty and to change according to your specifications.
Sandra
I love you. I want to be there for you when you need
something and to have a good relationship with you.
However, I-=-
I don't like the beginning. She's been manipulating and abusing, and if you start with "I
am willing to continue to be manipulated and abused, but..." she will only need to read the
first part to decide to continue as-is.
It's too long.
You talk about how you wish she was, and why you think she is, and how you'd like things
to be.
It's all too much.
Write it like you're paying 45 cents a word for a newspaper ad.
Don't even put "Dear Mom."
Here's a counter-suggestion:
*********
I've decided not to subject Lacey to abuse anymore. If you need anything I'll try to get by
there when I can, but I won't be bringing Lacey.
You mother was abusive, you're being abusive, and I've had enough abuse for this lifetime.
Belinda
********
(It's understood that the next move is hers; you don't need to say so.)
If she responds badly, here's letter two:
=================
If a stranger treated Lacey as you treat her, I would call the police. You don't get to do
that anymore. You never should have done it in the first place.
=================
If the religions aspect is important to you, you could add (the second time, not the first
one) "I have an obligation to make Lacey's life safe and peaceful, to protect her from harm.
Jesus wouldn't want you acting the way you act."
I think simple and direct is better than drawn out and whiney. What you wrote is an
attempt to make your mom feel guilty and to change according to your specifications.
Sandra
swissarmy_wife
Hi Belinda,
I just wanted to say that I agree with Sandra's suggestions. I also
think you've put too much emotion into it. I do understand that these
these can be emotional for you, but you do not need to share that with
her.
I'm copying and pasting a letter I had written my dad some time ago.
I think I mentioned it before. Basically in the letter I let him know
what I would not be tolerating anymore. He (as a former wrestling
coach) went WAY overboard when my son started getting into wrestling.
It might be a bit lengthy, but I will say that it did work. I never
heard a word from him about it. It just changed. Maybe a similar
format would help you out. The letter isn't nice. but the way he
acted that day made me feel not so nice. If someone doesn't act
deserving of respect, then I see no need to give it to them. your
mother is not a child, she doesn't need lengthy explanations of why
she is mean, or why no one visits.
Anyway... here's my letter. I hope it helps you and if it doesn't...
then I hope it helps someone else. :-)
-Heather
***
Dad,
There's a few things I wanted to get off my chest about the wrestling
tournament. First of all, please do not tell me that I "need to
chill" or that I'm "too protective" with S. You already had your
chance to raise children, now it's my turn. You can either be
supportive, or be somewhere else. I raise S. with respect, meaning I
respect him, his feelings, and the things he says. Period. If you
think that's babying him, or being too protective, first, I don't
care, second, please reread the second and third sentences of this
paragraph. I find it insulting when you speak to me that way, and I
do not appreciate it. I was not in a bad mood today until I started
to disapprove of the way you treated S.
Second, I wouldn't let anyone speak to my any of my kids the way you
speak to him. And I refuse to sit back while you do it. If he's
feeling bad about something, picking on him or making fun of him or
using sarcasm to gain a reaction makes him feel worse and is very
immature. You are his grandfather, not his father, and you should be
there with positive support and that's all. Acting like a jerk only
succeeds in making you look like a jerk.
Third, if you continue to think its ok to yell at S. (or M. for that
matter) than you can find another car to drive or ride in. It's not
aloud, and I won't let you do it. S. is 9. He acts 9. I allow him
to act 9. There is no need for you to be so bossy (this bothers him
the most), inflexible, and loud. It affects everyone. If you can't
stand to be in a car with children, then get out of the car. Problem
solved.
I just wanted to say that I agree with Sandra's suggestions. I also
think you've put too much emotion into it. I do understand that these
these can be emotional for you, but you do not need to share that with
her.
I'm copying and pasting a letter I had written my dad some time ago.
I think I mentioned it before. Basically in the letter I let him know
what I would not be tolerating anymore. He (as a former wrestling
coach) went WAY overboard when my son started getting into wrestling.
It might be a bit lengthy, but I will say that it did work. I never
heard a word from him about it. It just changed. Maybe a similar
format would help you out. The letter isn't nice. but the way he
acted that day made me feel not so nice. If someone doesn't act
deserving of respect, then I see no need to give it to them. your
mother is not a child, she doesn't need lengthy explanations of why
she is mean, or why no one visits.
Anyway... here's my letter. I hope it helps you and if it doesn't...
then I hope it helps someone else. :-)
-Heather
***
Dad,
There's a few things I wanted to get off my chest about the wrestling
tournament. First of all, please do not tell me that I "need to
chill" or that I'm "too protective" with S. You already had your
chance to raise children, now it's my turn. You can either be
supportive, or be somewhere else. I raise S. with respect, meaning I
respect him, his feelings, and the things he says. Period. If you
think that's babying him, or being too protective, first, I don't
care, second, please reread the second and third sentences of this
paragraph. I find it insulting when you speak to me that way, and I
do not appreciate it. I was not in a bad mood today until I started
to disapprove of the way you treated S.
Second, I wouldn't let anyone speak to my any of my kids the way you
speak to him. And I refuse to sit back while you do it. If he's
feeling bad about something, picking on him or making fun of him or
using sarcasm to gain a reaction makes him feel worse and is very
immature. You are his grandfather, not his father, and you should be
there with positive support and that's all. Acting like a jerk only
succeeds in making you look like a jerk.
Third, if you continue to think its ok to yell at S. (or M. for that
matter) than you can find another car to drive or ride in. It's not
aloud, and I won't let you do it. S. is 9. He acts 9. I allow him
to act 9. There is no need for you to be so bossy (this bothers him
the most), inflexible, and loud. It affects everyone. If you can't
stand to be in a car with children, then get out of the car. Problem
solved.
--- In [email protected], "Sandra Dodd" <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> I don't like the beginning. She's been manipulating and abusing,
and if you start with "I
> am willing to continue to be manipulated and abused, but..." she
will only need to read the
> first part to decide to continue as-is.
>
> It's too long.
> You talk about how you wish she was, and why you think she is, and
how you'd like things
> to be.
>
> It's all too much.
>
> Write it like you're paying 45 cents a word for a newspaper ad.
>
> Don't even put "Dear Mom."
marji
I agree wholeheartedly with all of Sandra's suggestions, too. I
think that your first draft was probably important and good for you
to write for *your* own sake, just to get those thoughts out of your
head and onto a piece of paper (or a computer screen). I find it
cathartic to write a lengthy diatribe about issues I'm having ~ for
my eyes only in most cases, and that's probably what that first draft
did. (To that end, I keep a blog that's for my eyes only where I can
go on at length about the good, the bad, and the ugly. I use it
because my typing is far better and more legible than my handwriting.)
I applaud you for writing your letter and posting it here. Sandra's
concise version is excellent communication for communication's sake
and gives your mom very little on which to argue.
I applaud you for taking this important step and speaking your truth;
it's a very powerful thing to do!
~Marji
----------
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Checked by AVG.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
think that your first draft was probably important and good for you
to write for *your* own sake, just to get those thoughts out of your
head and onto a piece of paper (or a computer screen). I find it
cathartic to write a lengthy diatribe about issues I'm having ~ for
my eyes only in most cases, and that's probably what that first draft
did. (To that end, I keep a blog that's for my eyes only where I can
go on at length about the good, the bad, and the ugly. I use it
because my typing is far better and more legible than my handwriting.)
I applaud you for writing your letter and posting it here. Sandra's
concise version is excellent communication for communication's sake
and gives your mom very little on which to argue.
I applaud you for taking this important step and speaking your truth;
it's a very powerful thing to do!
~Marji
----------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.4/1530 - Release Date: 7/2/2008 8:05 AM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
OK. Here goes. My 19 yo daughter is going over to see my mother tomorrow (not
because she wants to go, but because she too is being manipulated by my
mother) and I am going to send the following in a sealed envelope for her to
give to my mother as she's leaving:
Mom:
I've decided not to subject Lacey to your abuse anymore. If you need
anything you can call me and I'll try to get by there when I can, but I won't
be bringing Lacey.
Your mother was abusive, you're being abusive, and I've had enough abuse
for this lifetime.
Belinda
---
(How's that?)(And Thank You everyone for your help. I needed it!)
--
**Belinda**
because she wants to go, but because she too is being manipulated by my
mother) and I am going to send the following in a sealed envelope for her to
give to my mother as she's leaving:
Mom:
I've decided not to subject Lacey to your abuse anymore. If you need
anything you can call me and I'll try to get by there when I can, but I won't
be bringing Lacey.
Your mother was abusive, you're being abusive, and I've had enough abuse
for this lifetime.
Belinda
---
(How's that?)(And Thank You everyone for your help. I needed it!)
--
**Belinda**
[email protected]
>I wonder if you have ever seen the very short, very practical book entitledChildren of the Self Absorbed. A great survival/coping manual. Cameron
Thank you Cameron. No, I've not heard of it, but I just ordered it online and
will read it as soon as I get it. Thank you for the suggestion!
--
**Belinda**
Joanna Murphy
"Others feel the same way, but they are afraid to confront you."
I think it's important that you keep this about you and your family--not other people. They
have their own relationships and challenges, and it's not right for you to "out" them if they
aren't at the same place you are.
How about this:
Mom--I can no longer stand by and allow you to be abusive to Lacey. I've been confused
because I've wanted to honor my mother, but now I realize that in reality I've only been
dishonoring my daughter. From now on protecting Lacey is more important to me than
trying to not hurt your feelings. If you will treat us nicely we can visit. If not, I'm sorry, but I
can't subject her anymore to the abuse that seems to be Mawmaw's legacy.
Belinda
Joanna
I think it's important that you keep this about you and your family--not other people. They
have their own relationships and challenges, and it's not right for you to "out" them if they
aren't at the same place you are.
How about this:
Mom--I can no longer stand by and allow you to be abusive to Lacey. I've been confused
because I've wanted to honor my mother, but now I realize that in reality I've only been
dishonoring my daughter. From now on protecting Lacey is more important to me than
trying to not hurt your feelings. If you will treat us nicely we can visit. If not, I'm sorry, but I
can't subject her anymore to the abuse that seems to be Mawmaw's legacy.
Belinda
Joanna
[email protected]
Joanna, that's a good one too. Now I don't know which one to send!!!
--
**Belinda**
--
**Belinda**
Sandra Dodd
-=-How about this:
Mom--I can no longer stand by and allow you to be abusive to Lacey.
I've been confused
because I've wanted to honor my mother, but now I realize that in
reality I've only been
dishonoring my daughter. From now on protecting Lacey is more
important to me than
trying to not hurt your feelings. If you will treat us nicely we can
visit. If not, I'm sorry, but I
can't subject her anymore to the abuse that seems to be Mawmaw's legacy.
Belinda-=-
Oooh. There's some good stuff there, too. Maybe that could be
letter #2 (or parts of it could be).
There will likely need to be a letter #2...
OR keep Joanna's letter printed out by the phone in case your mom calls!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mom--I can no longer stand by and allow you to be abusive to Lacey.
I've been confused
because I've wanted to honor my mother, but now I realize that in
reality I've only been
dishonoring my daughter. From now on protecting Lacey is more
important to me than
trying to not hurt your feelings. If you will treat us nicely we can
visit. If not, I'm sorry, but I
can't subject her anymore to the abuse that seems to be Mawmaw's legacy.
Belinda-=-
Oooh. There's some good stuff there, too. Maybe that could be
letter #2 (or parts of it could be).
There will likely need to be a letter #2...
OR keep Joanna's letter printed out by the phone in case your mom calls!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-It affects everyone. If you can't
stand to be in a car with children, then get out of the car. Problem
solved. -=-
Wow.
That's harsh but poetic.
And it makes it clear that it's a car with children first, and he's
superfluous to the situation.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
stand to be in a car with children, then get out of the car. Problem
solved. -=-
Wow.
That's harsh but poetic.
And it makes it clear that it's a car with children first, and he's
superfluous to the situation.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanna Murphy
Wow Belinda--good for you.
Just know that when the fallout happens, and it will, that it's all a natural part of the process.
Don't be surprised if you even have relatives that give you grief for "mistreating" your
mother. Stand firm in what you know to be good and right.
Joanna
Just know that when the fallout happens, and it will, that it's all a natural part of the process.
Don't be surprised if you even have relatives that give you grief for "mistreating" your
mother. Stand firm in what you know to be good and right.
Joanna
Melissa Dietrick
--- In [email protected], "Jenny C" <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
short on time and I felt I was nt doing it justice...you have received
so many helpful responses...and my main gut feeling from before is
reflected by what jenny is writing:
when you talk about "abuse" I would write exactly what she does:
ie you say (daughters name ) is ( appropriate insult),
this is not acceptable: I am not going to allow her to be subjected to
this sort of talk so (here voice your decision to remedy that situation)
hugs for all your courage!
melissa
in italy
>I started to answer your letter as soon as it was posted, but I am
>
> My initial instinct is that there is a lot of blame. Understandable of
> course, but is there a way to make it about your feelings, rather than
> how she makes you feel? This is an important step, one in which there
> isn't an argument. If it's about YOUR feelings, she can't counter it,
> but if you make it about how she MAKES you feel, there is plenty for her
> to argue to fuel her fire.
>
short on time and I felt I was nt doing it justice...you have received
so many helpful responses...and my main gut feeling from before is
reflected by what jenny is writing:
when you talk about "abuse" I would write exactly what she does:
ie you say (daughters name ) is ( appropriate insult),
this is not acceptable: I am not going to allow her to be subjected to
this sort of talk so (here voice your decision to remedy that situation)
hugs for all your courage!
melissa
in italy
Melissa Dietrick
oh what I wrote doesnt seem at all in connection to Jennys...
yet I am thinking, the words are heavy and blaming as jenny points out.
If you can limit to describing exactly what she does, (you say x) then
describing your feelings here (I am worried for my daughter when she
hears such words coming from her grandmother, for ex.)...
I am afraid she is hurting as much as I would from words of that
sort...(maybe remembering how you felt whenyour grandmother spoke in
the same way?)
xxx sorry for the jumble
my littlest is calling.
melissa
--- In [email protected], "Melissa Dietrick"
<melissa.dietrick@...> wrote:
yet I am thinking, the words are heavy and blaming as jenny points out.
If you can limit to describing exactly what she does, (you say x) then
describing your feelings here (I am worried for my daughter when she
hears such words coming from her grandmother, for ex.)...
I am afraid she is hurting as much as I would from words of that
sort...(maybe remembering how you felt whenyour grandmother spoke in
the same way?)
xxx sorry for the jumble
my littlest is calling.
melissa
--- In [email protected], "Melissa Dietrick"
<melissa.dietrick@...> wrote:
>
>
> I started to answer your letter as soon as it was posted, but I am
> short on time and I felt I was nt doing it justice...you have received
> so many helpful responses...and my main gut feeling from before is
> reflected by what jenny is writing:
>
> when you talk about "abuse" I would write exactly what she does:
> ie you say (daughters name ) is ( appropriate insult),
> this is not acceptable: I am not going to allow her to be subjected to
> this sort of talk so (here voice your decision to remedy that situation)
>
> hugs for all your courage!
> melissa
> in italy
>
Melissa Dietrick
>anything I'll try to get by
> Here's a counter-suggestion:
>
> *********
> I've decided not to subject Lacey to abuse anymore. If you need
> there when I can, but I won't be bringing Lacey.abuse for this lifetime.
>
> You mother was abusive, you're being abusive, and I've had enough
>police. You don't get to do
> Belinda
> ********
>
>
> (It's understood that the next move is hers; you don't need to say so.)
>
> If she responds badly, here's letter two:
> =================
> If a stranger treated Lacey as you treat her, I would call the
> that anymore. You never should have done it in the first place.second time, not the first
> =================
>
> If the religions aspect is important to you, you could add (the
> one) "I have an obligation to make Lacey's life safe and peaceful,to protect her from harm.
> Jesus wouldn't want you acting the way you act."you wrote is an
>
> I think simple and direct is better than drawn out and whiney. What
> attempt to make your mom feel guilty and to change according to yourspecifications.
I like this...(just read it now)...I would however still stick with
describing the facts of what I see as abuse (so she really *knows*
exactly what is bugging me. I agree, getting into too much detail
(elsewhere) is probably just leaving room for not getting the point.
melissa
in italy
swissarmy_wife
Harsh? Well, I WAS pissed. But I didn't think it was "harsh". Then
again, I've been told I'm a wee bit abrasive.
Poetic? Well thanks. :-)
And yes, it's my car, it has children, deal or don't get in. Oh and
he HAS gotten in since, and it was wonderful. We had a really
spectacular Father's Day outing. I let him know in the letter, that
his immature behavior wasn't an option, and he "made adjustments". I
even notice him trying to be more positive with the kids and really
listening to my suggestions when the older one starts rolling his eyes
at Pop-pop. <G>
We now have healthy boundaries. Something that maybe was lacking in
our relationship with dad/pop-pop.
-Heather
again, I've been told I'm a wee bit abrasive.
Poetic? Well thanks. :-)
And yes, it's my car, it has children, deal or don't get in. Oh and
he HAS gotten in since, and it was wonderful. We had a really
spectacular Father's Day outing. I let him know in the letter, that
his immature behavior wasn't an option, and he "made adjustments". I
even notice him trying to be more positive with the kids and really
listening to my suggestions when the older one starts rolling his eyes
at Pop-pop. <G>
We now have healthy boundaries. Something that maybe was lacking in
our relationship with dad/pop-pop.
-Heather
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> Wow.
>
> That's harsh but poetic.
>
> And it makes it clear that it's a car with children first, and he's
> superfluous to the situation.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[email protected]
Final Draft????
Mom:
It really bothers me and Lacey when you call her names, compare her to
others, criticize her weight and the way she is being raised, and other nasty
comments that you make.
I've decided not to subject Lacey to your abuse anymore. If you need
anything you can call me and I'll get by there when I can, but I won't
be bringing Lacey.
Your mother was abusive, you're being abusive, and I've had enough abuse
for this lifetime.
Belinda
---
(How's that?)(And Thank You everyone for your help. I needed it!)
--
**Belinda**
Mom:
It really bothers me and Lacey when you call her names, compare her to
others, criticize her weight and the way she is being raised, and other nasty
comments that you make.
I've decided not to subject Lacey to your abuse anymore. If you need
anything you can call me and I'll get by there when I can, but I won't
be bringing Lacey.
Your mother was abusive, you're being abusive, and I've had enough abuse
for this lifetime.
Belinda
---
(How's that?)(And Thank You everyone for your help. I needed it!)
--
**Belinda**
MLewis
I don't think that sending the letter with your 19 yo is a good
idea. I know it will be sealed, but your mom will know that she had
it the whole time she was there, that you probably told her to not
give it until leaving, and whatever else a manipulative mind will
construe about your dd's involvement. I just don't think that it's
fair to bring her into it in any way.
Mary
idea. I know it will be sealed, but your mom will know that she had
it the whole time she was there, that you probably told her to not
give it until leaving, and whatever else a manipulative mind will
construe about your dd's involvement. I just don't think that it's
fair to bring her into it in any way.
Mary
--- In [email protected], b.newbold@... wrote:
>
> OK. Here goes. My 19 yo daughter is going over to see my mother
tomorrow (not
> because she wants to go, but because she too is being manipulated
by my
> mother) and I am going to send the following in a sealed envelope
for her to
> give to my mother as she's leaving:
>
> Mom:
> I've decided not to subject Lacey to your abuse anymore. If you
need
> anything you can call me and I'll try to get by there when I can,
but I won't
> be bringing Lacey.
>
> Your mother was abusive, you're being abusive, and I've had
enough abuse
> for this lifetime.
>
> Belinda
> ---
> (How's that?)(And Thank You everyone for your help. I needed it!)
> --
> **Belinda**
>
Joanna Murphy
--- In [email protected], "MLewis" <m9f9l@...> wrote:
Joanna
>Good point. Best to have things just between you and your mother.
> I don't think that sending the letter with your 19 yo is a good
> idea. I know it will be sealed, but your mom will know that she had
> it the whole time she was there, that you probably told her to not
> give it until leaving, and whatever else a manipulative mind will
> construe about your dd's involvement. I just don't think that it's
> fair to bring her into it in any way.
> Mary
Joanna
Sandra Dodd
-=-I don't think that sending the letter with your 19 yo is a good
idea. I know it will be sealed, but your mom will know that she had
it the whole time she was there, that you probably told her to not
give it until leaving, and whatever else a manipulative mind will
construe about your dd's involvement. I just don't think that it's
fair to bring her into it in any way.-=-
I don't think it "brings her into it." Mailing it would take a few
more days, and that could be a problem.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
idea. I know it will be sealed, but your mom will know that she had
it the whole time she was there, that you probably told her to not
give it until leaving, and whatever else a manipulative mind will
construe about your dd's involvement. I just don't think that it's
fair to bring her into it in any way.-=-
I don't think it "brings her into it." Mailing it would take a few
more days, and that could be a problem.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
I think this is 100% great. Telling your decisions works well. It sounds
like a letter where you are simply stating what you're going to do and that
you've made up your mind. Great. I did the same thing years ago but not by
letter. It was hard. There was no argument and I managed to stick by it.
I'm still amazed at how much better my life is because of that. Good luck
to you.
~Katherine
like a letter where you are simply stating what you're going to do and that
you've made up your mind. Great. I did the same thing years ago but not by
letter. It was hard. There was no argument and I managed to stick by it.
I'm still amazed at how much better my life is because of that. Good luck
to you.
~Katherine
On 7/2/08, b.newbold@... <b.newbold@...> wrote:
>
> OK. Here goes. My 19 yo daughter is going over to see my mother tomorrow
> (not
> because she wants to go, but because she too is being manipulated by my
> mother) and I am going to send the following in a sealed envelope for her
> to
> give to my mother as she's leaving:
>
> Mom:
> I've decided not to subject Lacey to your abuse anymore. If you need
> anything you can call me and I'll try to get by there when I can, but I
> won't
> be bringing Lacey.
>
> Your mother was abusive, you're being abusive, and I've had enough abuse
> for this lifetime.
>
> Belinda
> ---
> (How's that?)(And Thank You everyone for your help. I needed it!)
> --
> **Belinda**
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
It would seem sensible that an abuser needs to know information about which
behavior is abusive. They already know. Even if they don't want to admit
it to themselves or anyone else. The reason telling exactly which behavior
is abusive doesn't work is that the response back is a degenerative mess of
excuses and muddy thinking which in turn served to muddy my own thinking.
It's like handing an abuser ammunition to sling back at you in the same
manner they always give abuse... because it's how they relate to you.
I was only able to make a successful break by simply saying in essence
"goodbye" and going on with my life mentally and emotionally as though we
weren't related. They eventually found their way back to me in a way that I
could live with, which doesn't always happen but sometimes does.
~Katherine
behavior is abusive. They already know. Even if they don't want to admit
it to themselves or anyone else. The reason telling exactly which behavior
is abusive doesn't work is that the response back is a degenerative mess of
excuses and muddy thinking which in turn served to muddy my own thinking.
It's like handing an abuser ammunition to sling back at you in the same
manner they always give abuse... because it's how they relate to you.
I was only able to make a successful break by simply saying in essence
"goodbye" and going on with my life mentally and emotionally as though we
weren't related. They eventually found their way back to me in a way that I
could live with, which doesn't always happen but sometimes does.
~Katherine
On 7/3/08, Melissa Dietrick <melissa.dietrick@...> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Here's a counter-suggestion:
> >
> > *********
> > I've decided not to subject Lacey to abuse anymore. If you need
> anything I'll try to get by
> > there when I can, but I won't be bringing Lacey.
> >
> > You mother was abusive, you're being abusive, and I've had enough
> abuse for this lifetime.
> >
> > Belinda
> > ********
> >
> >
> > (It's understood that the next move is hers; you don't need to say so.)
> >
> > If she responds badly, here's letter two:
> > =================
> > If a stranger treated Lacey as you treat her, I would call the
> police. You don't get to do
> > that anymore. You never should have done it in the first place.
> > =================
> >
> > If the religions aspect is important to you, you could add (the
> second time, not the first
> > one) "I have an obligation to make Lacey's life safe and peaceful,
> to protect her from harm.
> > Jesus wouldn't want you acting the way you act."
> >
> > I think simple and direct is better than drawn out and whiney. What
> you wrote is an
> > attempt to make your mom feel guilty and to change according to your
> specifications.
>
> I like this...(just read it now)...I would however still stick with
> describing the facts of what I see as abuse (so she really *knows*
> exactly what is bugging me. I agree, getting into too much detail
> (elsewhere) is probably just leaving room for not getting the point.
>
> melissa
> in italy
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>They eventually found their way back to me in a way that Icould live with, which doesn't always happen but sometimes does.
Well, I sent the letter. She didn't respond very well. She called me and my 19
yo daughter, Nora, and told us both to "Just keep the f*** away from me". The
timing was good though, because my 16 yo niece had told her yesterday that she
no longer wants to spend the night with her because of the way that my mother
treats her and talks about her all the time and that she can't do anything
right according to my mother! Also, my 19 yo daughter told my mother while she
was there today (before Mom read the letter) that my 8 yo wasn't eating
because of the way that Mom talks about her weight. My daughter's sister-in-
law went with her today and her statement when they got back here was "If it
had been anyone else in the world talking to Nora like that I would have gone
off on them!"
Hopefully now my sister in law will get the courage to stand up to her too
and then maybe, just maybe she'll realize that we ALL can't be wrong! Thanks
so much to you all. I feel like a weight has just been lifted off my shoulders!
--
**Belinda**
Sandra Dodd
-=-Well, I sent the letter. She didn't respond very well. She called
me and my 19
yo daughter, Nora, and told us both to "Just keep the f*** away from
me". -=-
No, that's PERFECT!!!
Now you don't have to worry about helping her or seeing her anymore.
You might be able to shake that Bible-induced guilt about honoring
your mother.
It was her move, and she chose (of all the hundreds of thousands of
things she might have done) to call you without thinking first,
without writing, and telling you to keep the fuck away.
You're free!!!!
But it's not too late for your mom to read that letter again and
reconsider her behavior and attitude. She'll also have the memory of
her reaction.
Does she drink? If so, she might not have the memory.
If she does drink and if you don't start feeling better about this
pretty soon, you might want to consider al-Anon or Adult Children of
Alcoholics meetings for a while.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
me and my 19
yo daughter, Nora, and told us both to "Just keep the f*** away from
me". -=-
No, that's PERFECT!!!
Now you don't have to worry about helping her or seeing her anymore.
You might be able to shake that Bible-induced guilt about honoring
your mother.
It was her move, and she chose (of all the hundreds of thousands of
things she might have done) to call you without thinking first,
without writing, and telling you to keep the fuck away.
You're free!!!!
But it's not too late for your mom to read that letter again and
reconsider her behavior and attitude. She'll also have the memory of
her reaction.
Does she drink? If so, she might not have the memory.
If she does drink and if you don't start feeling better about this
pretty soon, you might want to consider al-Anon or Adult Children of
Alcoholics meetings for a while.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa Dietrick
Hi katherine,
I have not any experience with someone who is so abusive I need them
out of my life. I agree with you, that if my goal were to just end
the relationship, it would be best to just be as quick, simple as
possible.
Yet with my own family situation I have found that describing the
action, without adding the descriptive terms "abuse" is much more
effective to open the lines for communication.
I am talking about my husband here. He is a wonderful person, who has
at times severe back pain, and he can start to... well, verge on
abusive--using terms and actions he would never dream of using if he
were not in pain. I ve finally found that by just referring exactly to
what he has just said or done he stops. He doesnt want to do it...we
are all at different levels.
For us, because I did not consider just severing our relationship an
option, this method has really helped us...much more than me just
saying "I will not tolerate any more of this behavior" or "you will
never menace a child of mine again"...this just got him angry at me
and closed down the communication.
that sucked worse than what was happening before.
I also seek integrity in my life: I strive to be with my children in
a certain manner--I dont intervene in their fights saying "you are
egotistical or abusive" or what have you. I say what I see.
It really works with them as well.
that is why I suggested to use the descriptive facts here in this
situation of belinda's--it seemed to me that she would prefer her
mother got the point rather than just cutting her out of her life.
In my life experience, ive found that my viewpoint gets taken better I
find if I dont blame the other person.
in regards to degenerating, belinda is using a letter so she is safer
i guess than you were doing it in person.
melissa
in italy
mamma of 7
lucia 20yr, lidia 17yr, matteo 13yr, raffaele 10yr,
elena shanti 7yr, giacomo leo 4yr and gioele 2y
"There is a Place beyond Rightness and Wrongness -- I'll meet you there."
Rumi
http://www.larimeloom.etsy.com
http://www.flauto.tk
http://www.attachmentparenting.eu
I have not any experience with someone who is so abusive I need them
out of my life. I agree with you, that if my goal were to just end
the relationship, it would be best to just be as quick, simple as
possible.
Yet with my own family situation I have found that describing the
action, without adding the descriptive terms "abuse" is much more
effective to open the lines for communication.
I am talking about my husband here. He is a wonderful person, who has
at times severe back pain, and he can start to... well, verge on
abusive--using terms and actions he would never dream of using if he
were not in pain. I ve finally found that by just referring exactly to
what he has just said or done he stops. He doesnt want to do it...we
are all at different levels.
For us, because I did not consider just severing our relationship an
option, this method has really helped us...much more than me just
saying "I will not tolerate any more of this behavior" or "you will
never menace a child of mine again"...this just got him angry at me
and closed down the communication.
that sucked worse than what was happening before.
I also seek integrity in my life: I strive to be with my children in
a certain manner--I dont intervene in their fights saying "you are
egotistical or abusive" or what have you. I say what I see.
It really works with them as well.
that is why I suggested to use the descriptive facts here in this
situation of belinda's--it seemed to me that she would prefer her
mother got the point rather than just cutting her out of her life.
In my life experience, ive found that my viewpoint gets taken better I
find if I dont blame the other person.
in regards to degenerating, belinda is using a letter so she is safer
i guess than you were doing it in person.
melissa
in italy
mamma of 7
lucia 20yr, lidia 17yr, matteo 13yr, raffaele 10yr,
elena shanti 7yr, giacomo leo 4yr and gioele 2y
"There is a Place beyond Rightness and Wrongness -- I'll meet you there."
Rumi
http://www.larimeloom.etsy.com
http://www.flauto.tk
http://www.attachmentparenting.eu
--- In [email protected], k <katherand@...> wrote:
>
> It would seem sensible that an abuser needs to know information
about which
> behavior is abusive. They already know. Even if they don't want to
admit
> it to themselves or anyone else.
Sandra Dodd
-=-For us, because I did not consider just severing our relationship an
option, this method has really helped us...much more than me just
saying "I will not tolerate any more of this behavior" or "you will
never menace a child of mine again"...this just got him angry at me
and closed down the communication. -=-
It's different if it's in the house or if it's a spouse.
If the grandmother living with a family is abusive, there would be
other ways to handle it than a letter saying "if you don't change
you'll never see my kids again." But I would tell my kids, if they
were young and a grandparent was being verbally harsh in my house, to
come and tell me, and I would go in and talk to my mom (or my
husband's mom) every time, if it happened (that's hypothetical; my
mom lived with us when Kirby was little, but Kirby doesn't remember).
I think letters are better than confrontations for lots of reasons.
Letters can't be interrupted. They can be re-read. The sender can
keep a copy (Belinda, I hope you kept a copy!!), so if other
relatives have come to believe the letter said something other than
what it said, they can be shown or given a copy. That way things
don't escalate, they're brought back to the simple center. If the
recipient lies about what's in the letter, the recipient gets
busted. And the sender can think carefully (and get advice), and
choose words deliberately and slowly, unlike in person, when the
other one will interrupt after five words anyway and it will turn to
a heated argument instead of a statement of position.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
option, this method has really helped us...much more than me just
saying "I will not tolerate any more of this behavior" or "you will
never menace a child of mine again"...this just got him angry at me
and closed down the communication. -=-
It's different if it's in the house or if it's a spouse.
If the grandmother living with a family is abusive, there would be
other ways to handle it than a letter saying "if you don't change
you'll never see my kids again." But I would tell my kids, if they
were young and a grandparent was being verbally harsh in my house, to
come and tell me, and I would go in and talk to my mom (or my
husband's mom) every time, if it happened (that's hypothetical; my
mom lived with us when Kirby was little, but Kirby doesn't remember).
I think letters are better than confrontations for lots of reasons.
Letters can't be interrupted. They can be re-read. The sender can
keep a copy (Belinda, I hope you kept a copy!!), so if other
relatives have come to believe the letter said something other than
what it said, they can be shown or given a copy. That way things
don't escalate, they're brought back to the simple center. If the
recipient lies about what's in the letter, the recipient gets
busted. And the sender can think carefully (and get advice), and
choose words deliberately and slowly, unlike in person, when the
other one will interrupt after five words anyway and it will turn to
a heated argument instead of a statement of position.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>You're free!!!!But it's not too late for your mom to read that letter again and
reconsider her behavior and attitude. She'll also have the memory of
her reaction.
Does she drink? If so, she might not have the memory.<
No, I was lucky on that part. Neither of my parents EVER drank. I'm so
grateful for that at least. My step-brothers weren't so lucky. They got the
alcoholism gene from both of their parents, and now two of them are dead
because of it.
Hopefully my Mom will turn around, but I'm not pinning any hopes on that. This
has been her nature for quite a while now. I am hoping though that she'll talk
about this with others (as I'm SURE she WILL!) and that THEY in turn will talk
to her and let her know that I was right about her behavior and that they too
can see this in her. THEN maybe she'll see that she needs to change. We shall
see.
--
**Belinda**