hello and thoughts
cris
hello to all. some of you know me, I'm cris trainor (quinn and
maddie's mom, if that helps :), homeschooler of four for a century,
unschooling for the past 8 years, thanks to Sandra and Kelly Lovejoy.
I've read here (and many other unschooling lists) for decades (seems
like) but not ever posted.
I am now because I was discussing unschooling with a friend, trying to
advocate for her kids (not a great idea, but I was sick of hearing her
rag on them) and not doing a very good job of it. We both ended up
frustrated with each other.
Anyhoo, the next day she posted this quote on her myspace:
We have no more right to consume happiness without producing it than
to consume wealth without producing it. g b shaw
and I know it was in response to what I was TRYING to get across to
her, about kids not being obligated to their parents or household
life, just because they are part of the family; and setting the
example is more important (and effective) than nagging (which, of
course, isn't ever a very good idea!!).
So I've been thinking and thinking about writing a piece in response,
and thought that this list was a good place to ask for responses to
that specific quote, as it relates to unschooling principles.
Just interested in others' input; whatever you have time and energy for...
thanks,
cris
maddie's mom, if that helps :), homeschooler of four for a century,
unschooling for the past 8 years, thanks to Sandra and Kelly Lovejoy.
I've read here (and many other unschooling lists) for decades (seems
like) but not ever posted.
I am now because I was discussing unschooling with a friend, trying to
advocate for her kids (not a great idea, but I was sick of hearing her
rag on them) and not doing a very good job of it. We both ended up
frustrated with each other.
Anyhoo, the next day she posted this quote on her myspace:
We have no more right to consume happiness without producing it than
to consume wealth without producing it. g b shaw
and I know it was in response to what I was TRYING to get across to
her, about kids not being obligated to their parents or household
life, just because they are part of the family; and setting the
example is more important (and effective) than nagging (which, of
course, isn't ever a very good idea!!).
So I've been thinking and thinking about writing a piece in response,
and thought that this list was a good place to ask for responses to
that specific quote, as it relates to unschooling principles.
Just interested in others' input; whatever you have time and energy for...
thanks,
cris
Sandra Dodd
-=-We have no more right to consume happiness without producing it than
to consume wealth without producing it. g b shaw-=-
#1, Shaw is full of unhappy poo.
#2, Was the other mom referring to happiness she was sapping from you
or from her kids?
"CONSUME" happiness!? That makes no sense whatsoever. When one
person (such as that mom) is unhappy, she has not "consumed"
happiness. She has prevented it.
When her kids are unhappy, they should (if she has any compassion) be
making her unhappy too.
But if her kids are happy and she has their happiness as her own
goal, then she should feel ecstatic because she has succeeded as a
mother.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to consume wealth without producing it. g b shaw-=-
#1, Shaw is full of unhappy poo.
#2, Was the other mom referring to happiness she was sapping from you
or from her kids?
"CONSUME" happiness!? That makes no sense whatsoever. When one
person (such as that mom) is unhappy, she has not "consumed"
happiness. She has prevented it.
When her kids are unhappy, they should (if she has any compassion) be
making her unhappy too.
But if her kids are happy and she has their happiness as her own
goal, then she should feel ecstatic because she has succeeded as a
mother.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
barbara emrich
I don't know if I could come up with a response to this quote without first
having your friend explain what SHE thinks it means. My guess is, she
hasn't thought it all the way through, especially the part about wealth.
But then again, she's your friend, so I don't really know---maybe she has.
I'd ask her what she means by that, I guess.
Sometimes, I've found, people like the simplicity of quotes and don't have a
clue what they really mean or what the full implications are of believing
them/aligning themselves with them.
Just a thought.
Barb
having your friend explain what SHE thinks it means. My guess is, she
hasn't thought it all the way through, especially the part about wealth.
But then again, she's your friend, so I don't really know---maybe she has.
I'd ask her what she means by that, I guess.
Sometimes, I've found, people like the simplicity of quotes and don't have a
clue what they really mean or what the full implications are of believing
them/aligning themselves with them.
Just a thought.
Barb
On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 10:24 AM, cris <muddpies@...> wrote:
> hello to all. some of you know me, I'm cris trainor (quinn and
> maddie's mom, if that helps :), homeschooler of four for a century,
> unschooling for the past 8 years, thanks to Sandra and Kelly Lovejoy.
>
> I've read here (and many other unschooling lists) for decades (seems
> like) but not ever posted.
>
> I am now because I was discussing unschooling with a friend, trying to
> advocate for her kids (not a great idea, but I was sick of hearing her
> rag on them) and not doing a very good job of it. We both ended up
> frustrated with each other.
> Anyhoo, the next day she posted this quote on her myspace:
>
> We have no more right to consume happiness without producing it than
> to consume wealth without producing it. g b shaw
>
> and I know it was in response to what I was TRYING to get across to
> her, about kids not being obligated to their parents or household
> life, just because they are part of the family; and setting the
> example is more important (and effective) than nagging (which, of
> course, isn't ever a very good idea!!).
>
> So I've been thinking and thinking about writing a piece in response,
> and thought that this list was a good place to ask for responses to
> that specific quote, as it relates to unschooling principles.
>
> Just interested in others' input; whatever you have time and energy for...
>
> thanks,
> cris
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanna Murphy
Can you explain further what you think she meant by the quote? Do you think that she
was implying that you were consuming happiness by arguing with her, or that she was
consuming happiness in trying to coerce her children? If it's the second, then no response
seems necessary, and if it's the first, then that's a pretty strong statement of "leave me
alone," and I would if it were me. It doesn't seem like she's likely to be very receptive to
your point of view.
Or is she talking about children who don't do chores that are consuming happiness? If the
answer is door number 3, then I'd still leave it alone, because if, after all the reasons
you've likely expressed about why she shouldn't rag on her kids, she's posted that quote, I
think she's dug in her heels for the moment. Maybe just backing off and seeing if the
seeds will grow might be a better use of your emotional energy. At some point, she may
decide she doesn't like the sound of her own voice and your words will come to mind. If
she is a very proud person, it may be hard for her to jump on board right away with you
watching so closely.
She may need to have a little time for self-examination. You can always continue to post
positive things on your blog, even if they don't reflect a specific answer to this quote--
because just the tone of loving and appreciating your children for who they are is going to
nag at her! She'd probably like to feel that and doesn't.
Joanna
was implying that you were consuming happiness by arguing with her, or that she was
consuming happiness in trying to coerce her children? If it's the second, then no response
seems necessary, and if it's the first, then that's a pretty strong statement of "leave me
alone," and I would if it were me. It doesn't seem like she's likely to be very receptive to
your point of view.
Or is she talking about children who don't do chores that are consuming happiness? If the
answer is door number 3, then I'd still leave it alone, because if, after all the reasons
you've likely expressed about why she shouldn't rag on her kids, she's posted that quote, I
think she's dug in her heels for the moment. Maybe just backing off and seeing if the
seeds will grow might be a better use of your emotional energy. At some point, she may
decide she doesn't like the sound of her own voice and your words will come to mind. If
she is a very proud person, it may be hard for her to jump on board right away with you
watching so closely.
She may need to have a little time for self-examination. You can always continue to post
positive things on your blog, even if they don't reflect a specific answer to this quote--
because just the tone of loving and appreciating your children for who they are is going to
nag at her! She'd probably like to feel that and doesn't.
Joanna