Progress of a Newbie
DaBreeze21
Hello everyone!
I haven't posted in a while but wanted to give an "update". I have
been following some of the advice given to me and "chilled" out a lot
about bringing up unschooling to my husband. Something that I am
slowly realizing is how many of these principles we are living already
and that my husband is supportive of (ie eating, sleeping arrangements
and "bedtime" etc.) This has made me realize that I don't need to
"discuss" many of these things with him -- we just need to keep on
living and learning together and if we need to work something in
particular out, then we can discuss. It is still so helpful to me to
read about these things though and have ideas in my head for future
reference.
I also wanted to share a blog entry that I just posted (it made me
think of Sandra and unschooling...) :
Wednesday, May 28, 2008
*
Joys of staying home
I love my life! How often do I think those thoughts... A friend
was looking of a picture of me and MG (my daughter) when she was about
9 months old, and she said, "you look so happy!" And I told, I am,
every day! Every day since she was born... actually since I was pregnant.
I really consider myself a SAHM, although technically I "work".
I watch a little boy who is 1 month older than my daughter full-time.
His mom calls me his "baby-sitter" although most would call me his
nanny. (I don't mind too much, in fact I kind of understand her
aversion to the word "nanny".) Anyways, I often think how watching
this little boy actually helps keep me on track as a mom. Our days are
really about them and their needs -- although I am getting mine filled
too. We have play dates, go to playgrounds, the library, music class,
sing, dance, read books, run, make funny faces, laugh, eat, nap... it
is quite the good life!
I have made some really good mommy friends since we moved. And
talking to them and hanging out with them has clarified a lot of
things for me. One of my friends works 2 days a week. Yesterday her
daughter said to her husband and her, "Mommy, Daddy - go back to
work!" She was having so much fun with her babysitter. My friend
realized that she has to make her time with her daughter fun too.
Similarly, one day last week the little boy's mom came home early and
I had just gotten him up from nap. As soon as he saw her he gave a
loud, dismayed, "NO-oo-OOH!" His mom and I both laughed, and she was a
good sport and said "Yes!" with her arms wide open.
Aside from the awkwardness I feel about this I also know that I
personally would not deal well with this at ALL. I LOVE that I am
still my daughter's favorite as she approaches 2. She still WANTS to
be with me all the time! We do so many things together every day -
eat, play, nurse, bathe, fall asleep... We make each other laugh! I
know that it will not always be this way, but all the more reason to
cherish it now. When MG was only 6 months there were people who said,
"She is still nursing?" and "She (me) is going to be a slave to that
baby". Well if this is the kind of life a slave leads then call me a
slave. I am in love and loving life. My baby (little girl!) is growing
up quickly and beautifully and I am trying so hard to soak up as many
moments as I can. I wouldn't change a thing.
Susan
http://weblog.xanga.com/CrunchyConMom
I haven't posted in a while but wanted to give an "update". I have
been following some of the advice given to me and "chilled" out a lot
about bringing up unschooling to my husband. Something that I am
slowly realizing is how many of these principles we are living already
and that my husband is supportive of (ie eating, sleeping arrangements
and "bedtime" etc.) This has made me realize that I don't need to
"discuss" many of these things with him -- we just need to keep on
living and learning together and if we need to work something in
particular out, then we can discuss. It is still so helpful to me to
read about these things though and have ideas in my head for future
reference.
I also wanted to share a blog entry that I just posted (it made me
think of Sandra and unschooling...) :
Wednesday, May 28, 2008
*
Joys of staying home
I love my life! How often do I think those thoughts... A friend
was looking of a picture of me and MG (my daughter) when she was about
9 months old, and she said, "you look so happy!" And I told, I am,
every day! Every day since she was born... actually since I was pregnant.
I really consider myself a SAHM, although technically I "work".
I watch a little boy who is 1 month older than my daughter full-time.
His mom calls me his "baby-sitter" although most would call me his
nanny. (I don't mind too much, in fact I kind of understand her
aversion to the word "nanny".) Anyways, I often think how watching
this little boy actually helps keep me on track as a mom. Our days are
really about them and their needs -- although I am getting mine filled
too. We have play dates, go to playgrounds, the library, music class,
sing, dance, read books, run, make funny faces, laugh, eat, nap... it
is quite the good life!
I have made some really good mommy friends since we moved. And
talking to them and hanging out with them has clarified a lot of
things for me. One of my friends works 2 days a week. Yesterday her
daughter said to her husband and her, "Mommy, Daddy - go back to
work!" She was having so much fun with her babysitter. My friend
realized that she has to make her time with her daughter fun too.
Similarly, one day last week the little boy's mom came home early and
I had just gotten him up from nap. As soon as he saw her he gave a
loud, dismayed, "NO-oo-OOH!" His mom and I both laughed, and she was a
good sport and said "Yes!" with her arms wide open.
Aside from the awkwardness I feel about this I also know that I
personally would not deal well with this at ALL. I LOVE that I am
still my daughter's favorite as she approaches 2. She still WANTS to
be with me all the time! We do so many things together every day -
eat, play, nurse, bathe, fall asleep... We make each other laugh! I
know that it will not always be this way, but all the more reason to
cherish it now. When MG was only 6 months there were people who said,
"She is still nursing?" and "She (me) is going to be a slave to that
baby". Well if this is the kind of life a slave leads then call me a
slave. I am in love and loving life. My baby (little girl!) is growing
up quickly and beautifully and I am trying so hard to soak up as many
moments as I can. I wouldn't change a thing.
Susan
http://weblog.xanga.com/CrunchyConMom
Anne Mills
Beautiful,
your post made me weap.
I also have a little girl whom will turn two in August.
You describe every bit of feeling she has planted in my life.
I keep chasing her around to hear her toddler
giggle, which is the best music I have heard.
I wish I could say that she always wants to be
with me but I must say, Julia is equally loving
her Daddy.
How wonderful and inspiring to read those words of
dedication to the time you baby sit.
I can see the joy of those children in your care.
Anne
________________________________
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your post made me weap.
I also have a little girl whom will turn two in August.
You describe every bit of feeling she has planted in my life.
I keep chasing her around to hear her toddler
giggle, which is the best music I have heard.
I wish I could say that she always wants to be
with me but I must say, Julia is equally loving
her Daddy.
How wonderful and inspiring to read those words of
dedication to the time you baby sit.
I can see the joy of those children in your care.
Anne
________________________________
> To: [email protected]_________________________________________________________________
> From: susanmay15@...
> Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 03:08:40 +0000
> Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Progress of a Newbie
>
>
> Hello everyone!
>
> I haven't posted in a while but wanted to give an "update". I have
> been following some of the advice given to me and "chilled" out a lot
> about bringing up unschooling to my husband. Something that I am
> slowly realizing is how many of these principles we are living already
> and that my husband is supportive of (ie eating, sleeping arrangements
> and "bedtime" etc.) This has made me realize that I don't need to
> "discuss" many of these things with him -- we just need to keep on
> living and learning together and if we need to work something in
> particular out, then we can discuss. It is still so helpful to me to
> read about these things though and have ideas in my head for future
> reference.
>
> I also wanted to share a blog entry that I just posted (it made me
> think of Sandra and unschooling...) :
>
> Wednesday, May 28, 2008
>
> *
> Joys of staying home
> I love my life! How often do I think those thoughts... A friend
> was looking of a picture of me and MG (my daughter) when she was about
> 9 months old, and she said, "you look so happy!" And I told, I am,
> every day! Every day since she was born... actually since I was pregnant.
>
> I really consider myself a SAHM, although technically I "work".
> I watch a little boy who is 1 month older than my daughter full-time.
> His mom calls me his "baby-sitter" although most would call me his
> nanny. (I don't mind too much, in fact I kind of understand her
> aversion to the word "nanny".) Anyways, I often think how watching
> this little boy actually helps keep me on track as a mom. Our days are
> really about them and their needs -- although I am getting mine filled
> too. We have play dates, go to playgrounds, the library, music class,
> sing, dance, read books, run, make funny faces, laugh, eat, nap... it
> is quite the good life!
>
> I have made some really good mommy friends since we moved. And
> talking to them and hanging out with them has clarified a lot of
> things for me. One of my friends works 2 days a week. Yesterday her
> daughter said to her husband and her, "Mommy, Daddy - go back to
> work!" She was having so much fun with her babysitter. My friend
> realized that she has to make her time with her daughter fun too.
> Similarly, one day last week the little boy's mom came home early and
> I had just gotten him up from nap. As soon as he saw her he gave a
> loud, dismayed, "NO-oo-OOH!" His mom and I both laughed, and she was a
> good sport and said "Yes!" with her arms wide open.
>
> Aside from the awkwardness I feel about this I also know that I
> personally would not deal well with this at ALL. I LOVE that I am
> still my daughter's favorite as she approaches 2. She still WANTS to
> be with me all the time! We do so many things together every day -
> eat, play, nurse, bathe, fall asleep... We make each other laugh! I
> know that it will not always be this way, but all the more reason to
> cherish it now. When MG was only 6 months there were people who said,
> "She is still nursing?" and "She (me) is going to be a slave to that
> baby". Well if this is the kind of life a slave leads then call me a
> slave. I am in love and loving life. My baby (little girl!) is growing
> up quickly and beautifully and I am trying so hard to soak up as many
> moments as I can. I wouldn't change a thing.
>
> Susan
>
> http://weblog.xanga.com/CrunchyConMom
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic
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Pamela Sorooshian
On May 28, 2008, at 8:08 PM, DaBreeze21 wrote:
mom of teenagers and young adults. I thought it would be heartbreaking
- that it was inevitable that they'd go through a period of not
wanting parents around, etc. Yesterday I was at water aerobics and
someone asked the instructor what she got for mothers day. The
instructor said, "Nothing, of course. My daughter is 16 so she hates
me right now." Several of them went on to say, "Oh, yeah, she'll hate
you until she's 21 and then she'll suddenly realize (again) how smart
you really are." And so on.
Not at ALL true in my experience. Not even close.
My girls are 17, 20, and 23. They still want to be with me a LOT.
We're all busy with our separate activities (theater, soccer,
community college, karate, Girl Scouts, and my work), too, but we do
still spend a lot of time together and they clearly want me around.
Yesterday a bunch of kids - all unschoolers/homeschoolers - went to
the beach. I spent some time with them - went off to go jogging by
myself. But, truly, they would not just tolerate me hanging out with
them, they'd LIKE it. So would their friends. When they make plans to
do things, go to Disneyland, for example, they are very happy when
some of us unschooling moms or dads decide to go along. A bunch of
them take karate together and every once in a while they'll all decide
to go out to eat after a class or test. They are very happy for us
adults to go along with them. My 23 yo and I go work out at the gym
together a couple of times per week. Tomorrow evening I'm going over
to her house and we're going to make Artist Trading Cards - she has a
whole "art room" in her little house - her own studio! Even with her
moved out and having a full-time career and a boyfriend and a busy
social life, we still see a lot of each other - at least a couple of
times a week - sometimes more. We talk on the phone multiple times per
day, most days. We also send emails - just interesting little things
we find on YouTube, etc.
It isn't sad at ALL. It is very very wonderful to grow into a real
mature friendship with our older kids/teens/young adults.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I LOVE that I amIt won't be the same, but it won't be worse - it is AWESOME to be the
> still my daughter's favorite as she approaches 2. She still WANTS to
> be with me all the time! We do so many things together every day -
> eat, play, nurse, bathe, fall asleep... We make each other laugh! I
> know that it will not always be this way, but all the more reason to
> cherish it now.
mom of teenagers and young adults. I thought it would be heartbreaking
- that it was inevitable that they'd go through a period of not
wanting parents around, etc. Yesterday I was at water aerobics and
someone asked the instructor what she got for mothers day. The
instructor said, "Nothing, of course. My daughter is 16 so she hates
me right now." Several of them went on to say, "Oh, yeah, she'll hate
you until she's 21 and then she'll suddenly realize (again) how smart
you really are." And so on.
Not at ALL true in my experience. Not even close.
My girls are 17, 20, and 23. They still want to be with me a LOT.
We're all busy with our separate activities (theater, soccer,
community college, karate, Girl Scouts, and my work), too, but we do
still spend a lot of time together and they clearly want me around.
Yesterday a bunch of kids - all unschoolers/homeschoolers - went to
the beach. I spent some time with them - went off to go jogging by
myself. But, truly, they would not just tolerate me hanging out with
them, they'd LIKE it. So would their friends. When they make plans to
do things, go to Disneyland, for example, they are very happy when
some of us unschooling moms or dads decide to go along. A bunch of
them take karate together and every once in a while they'll all decide
to go out to eat after a class or test. They are very happy for us
adults to go along with them. My 23 yo and I go work out at the gym
together a couple of times per week. Tomorrow evening I'm going over
to her house and we're going to make Artist Trading Cards - she has a
whole "art room" in her little house - her own studio! Even with her
moved out and having a full-time career and a boyfriend and a busy
social life, we still see a lot of each other - at least a couple of
times a week - sometimes more. We talk on the phone multiple times per
day, most days. We also send emails - just interesting little things
we find on YouTube, etc.
It isn't sad at ALL. It is very very wonderful to grow into a real
mature friendship with our older kids/teens/young adults.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
I do miss tiny hands and nursing babies sometimes, but I love the
people my babies grew up to be, too. I have little-kid photos of
them all where I can see them from the computer.
A good thing about having older kids is that I can sleep more, work
in the yard more, leave the house for an hour or more (which I did
yesterday, all by myself! <g>), and not worry about them. When I
called home yesterday, Holly said they were waiting for me to get
back before they left (she and her boyfriend) to feed dogs of a
friend who's in Mexico. Did they need the car, I asked? No, she
said; she just liked me and wanted to see me before she left.
!
And yesterday we were talking about someone we might see in a few
months, and she said she had sent her a Mother's Day note on
MySpace. Then she looked at me with big eyes and said she hadn't
sent ME one, but she had sent four or five to other moms. We just
laughed.
On Mother's Day all my kids were extra nice to me, but they're nice
to me all the time. Keith and I were out to eat with Marty before he
had to go to work, and Kirby called me. I was all mothered-up before
lunch was over.
There's a peaceful, open fullness to our relationships. I didn't
expect it, when they were little. I'd never seen it before, but now
that I know a lot of unschoolers with older kids, I've seen it more
and more often.
Sandra
people my babies grew up to be, too. I have little-kid photos of
them all where I can see them from the computer.
A good thing about having older kids is that I can sleep more, work
in the yard more, leave the house for an hour or more (which I did
yesterday, all by myself! <g>), and not worry about them. When I
called home yesterday, Holly said they were waiting for me to get
back before they left (she and her boyfriend) to feed dogs of a
friend who's in Mexico. Did they need the car, I asked? No, she
said; she just liked me and wanted to see me before she left.
!
And yesterday we were talking about someone we might see in a few
months, and she said she had sent her a Mother's Day note on
MySpace. Then she looked at me with big eyes and said she hadn't
sent ME one, but she had sent four or five to other moms. We just
laughed.
On Mother's Day all my kids were extra nice to me, but they're nice
to me all the time. Keith and I were out to eat with Marty before he
had to go to work, and Kirby called me. I was all mothered-up before
lunch was over.
There's a peaceful, open fullness to our relationships. I didn't
expect it, when they were little. I'd never seen it before, but now
that I know a lot of unschoolers with older kids, I've seen it more
and more often.
Sandra
Ren Allen
~~
It won't be the same, but it won't be worse - it is AWESOME to be the
mom of teenagers and young adults. I thought it would be heartbreaking
- that it was inevitable that they'd go through a period of not
wanting parents around, etc.~~
I agree and I disagree....
It IS awesome to be the mother of teens and young adults. Definitely!
But it's heartbreaking too.
Trevor moved out last week and I sat in his empty room and cried for a
bit. I'm really happy for him, don't get me wrong. But I didn't
realize how strange it would feel now that he's officially moved out.
He'd been gone frequently so I thought I was ready!
So it's heartbreaking (for me to some degree) to not have him around
in the same way, yet he is so much fun and yes, he enjoys my company
and misses us when he's away. It's a strange transition because you're
so excited for them to have these new experiences but it hit me like a
rock when I saw that empty room.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
It won't be the same, but it won't be worse - it is AWESOME to be the
mom of teenagers and young adults. I thought it would be heartbreaking
- that it was inevitable that they'd go through a period of not
wanting parents around, etc.~~
I agree and I disagree....
It IS awesome to be the mother of teens and young adults. Definitely!
But it's heartbreaking too.
Trevor moved out last week and I sat in his empty room and cried for a
bit. I'm really happy for him, don't get me wrong. But I didn't
realize how strange it would feel now that he's officially moved out.
He'd been gone frequently so I thought I was ready!
So it's heartbreaking (for me to some degree) to not have him around
in the same way, yet he is so much fun and yes, he enjoys my company
and misses us when he's away. It's a strange transition because you're
so excited for them to have these new experiences but it hit me like a
rock when I saw that empty room.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Pamela Sorooshian
On May 30, 2008, at 5:33 AM, Ren Allen wrote:
frustrated, overwhelmed, etc?
There are those really hard aspects to all ages. Weaning. Walking into
our child's abandoned bedroom. I still haven't done ANYTHING to Roya's
bedroom - it is sitting with all its "remains" just as she left it,
still. It has been many months since she moved out.
ALL of life, all the stages of life, have their down times, sad times,
difficult times, etc. Time has a way of erasing some of those really
tough times from our memories - but I do remember sitting in the
bathroom with the door shut and crying, thinking I was just TOO
exhausted and TOO tired and that if one more person asked me to do
something for them in the next five minutes I might just explode.
Those toddler years weren't a steady stream of completely
uninterrupted bliss and neither will the teenage years be that.
What I'm addressing is that parents of young children are so often
fearful that their own dearly-loved children will turn on them when
they become teenagers. THAT isn't what has happened to the unschoolers
I know. What Ren describes above - yes, of course - those transitions
can be heartrending. But it has NOTHING to do with our children
becoming hostile, difficult, hard-to-get-along-with, parent-snubbing
teenagers. AND - those sad feelings are very sweetly mixed with
satisfaction at our children's capabilities and confidence and zest
for life, etc.
There are things to learn, together, about our maturing relationships,
and I'm not saying that that is always perfectly smooth sailing,
either. We have had times that we clashed - but they've been a whole
lot fewer and farther between than I'd have anticipated based on the
way people talk about teens. And, no MORE often than when they were
younger.
Parents worry in advance that they will, inevitably, have to deal with
those "teen years" when their kids will be sullen, angry, rebellious,
defiant, disrespectful, secretive, hostile, and on and on.
That is not inevitable and is not at all "normal" in unschooled teens.
I was reading an article by a woman who has the nerve to go on and on
about how important it is to set limits and not indulge your children
and be strict and so on, and it turns out that her OWN young teen's
behavior got so completely out of control that they sent him to a
military boarding school. Her conclusion? Even when parents do
everything right, some teens will go bad and then parents just have to
be strong enough to make the tough choices.
Here is the article:
<http://www.helium.com/items/1010686-teenagers-entirely-different-species
"Teenagers are an entirely different species than most that inhabit
the earth, or so it appears to rational adults."
If we're going to generalize, I could just as easily describe teens as
DELIGHTFUL! Their increasing competence, fresh way of seeing things,
idealism, passion, kindness, positive energy, their willingness to
take reasonable risks, and their solution-oriented approach to life -
they are great!
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> It's a strange transition because you'reWhen they were little, weren't there times when you were exhausted,
> so excited for them to have these new experiences but it hit me like a
> rock when I saw that empty room.
frustrated, overwhelmed, etc?
There are those really hard aspects to all ages. Weaning. Walking into
our child's abandoned bedroom. I still haven't done ANYTHING to Roya's
bedroom - it is sitting with all its "remains" just as she left it,
still. It has been many months since she moved out.
ALL of life, all the stages of life, have their down times, sad times,
difficult times, etc. Time has a way of erasing some of those really
tough times from our memories - but I do remember sitting in the
bathroom with the door shut and crying, thinking I was just TOO
exhausted and TOO tired and that if one more person asked me to do
something for them in the next five minutes I might just explode.
Those toddler years weren't a steady stream of completely
uninterrupted bliss and neither will the teenage years be that.
What I'm addressing is that parents of young children are so often
fearful that their own dearly-loved children will turn on them when
they become teenagers. THAT isn't what has happened to the unschoolers
I know. What Ren describes above - yes, of course - those transitions
can be heartrending. But it has NOTHING to do with our children
becoming hostile, difficult, hard-to-get-along-with, parent-snubbing
teenagers. AND - those sad feelings are very sweetly mixed with
satisfaction at our children's capabilities and confidence and zest
for life, etc.
There are things to learn, together, about our maturing relationships,
and I'm not saying that that is always perfectly smooth sailing,
either. We have had times that we clashed - but they've been a whole
lot fewer and farther between than I'd have anticipated based on the
way people talk about teens. And, no MORE often than when they were
younger.
Parents worry in advance that they will, inevitably, have to deal with
those "teen years" when their kids will be sullen, angry, rebellious,
defiant, disrespectful, secretive, hostile, and on and on.
That is not inevitable and is not at all "normal" in unschooled teens.
I was reading an article by a woman who has the nerve to go on and on
about how important it is to set limits and not indulge your children
and be strict and so on, and it turns out that her OWN young teen's
behavior got so completely out of control that they sent him to a
military boarding school. Her conclusion? Even when parents do
everything right, some teens will go bad and then parents just have to
be strong enough to make the tough choices.
Here is the article:
<http://www.helium.com/items/1010686-teenagers-entirely-different-species
>It starts out with:
"Teenagers are an entirely different species than most that inhabit
the earth, or so it appears to rational adults."
If we're going to generalize, I could just as easily describe teens as
DELIGHTFUL! Their increasing competence, fresh way of seeing things,
idealism, passion, kindness, positive energy, their willingness to
take reasonable risks, and their solution-oriented approach to life -
they are great!
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
Hey - I just read my "Daily Groove" from yesterday and today and it is
about Terrible Twos and Teens.
As usual, Scott Noelle says a lot in his very succinct way:
<http://www.enjoyparenting.com/daily-groove/terrible-not>
****
The shift from terrible to terrific begins with your commitment to
creative partnership. Then, whenever your child exhibits "terrible"
behavior, you can re-interpret it as evidence of his or her unfolding
autonomy, and ask yourself this:
"How can I use my creativity to support my child's growth in a way
that works for ALL of us?"
****
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
about Terrible Twos and Teens.
As usual, Scott Noelle says a lot in his very succinct way:
<http://www.enjoyparenting.com/daily-groove/terrible-not>
****
The shift from terrible to terrific begins with your commitment to
creative partnership. Then, whenever your child exhibits "terrible"
behavior, you can re-interpret it as evidence of his or her unfolding
autonomy, and ask yourself this:
"How can I use my creativity to support my child's growth in a way
that works for ALL of us?"
****
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-But it has NOTHING to do with our children
becoming hostile, difficult, hard-to-get-along-with, parent-snubbing
teenagers. -=-
Kirby was a little like that, compared to Marty and Holly. He never
quite recovered from moving to a new house. He didn't get the room
he wanted. Puberty hit him hard and he was gone a lot, with work and
karate. I see ALL the negatives of some problems Kirby and I had.
Then I pull out the too-close focus and remember that my relationship
with Kirby was better than ANY of our friends whose kids his age were
in school. WAY better.
When Kirby knew he was going to move, last summer, a kind of
compensatory niceness came over him. It seemed as though he had been
planning to be nicer later, and his later was disappearing. It was
all sunshine and roses from the time he knew he was getting a job in
Texas. He calls me a couple of times a week just to see how I am. I
forget to call him in the two very small windows in his day. He's
awake for an hour before he gets to work, they're all like black-out
at work (no phones, no e-mail), he takes one break outside the
building to eat and do errands, and gets home usually after I'm in
bed. He works ten hours lots of times, and currently is working
eight days straight because they changed his two days off to
Wednesday and Thursday.
So I know where he is, and I'm glad to know what his apartment is
like now, and he tells me stories and is really sweet.
His room did change. The closet and half the shelves still have his
stuff where he left it but we moved the desk (door on two bases with
drawers) and that room is the games room now, kind of a den for
upstairs. It has Rock Band (which Kirby sent us for Christmas) and
XBox, TV, Marty's computer, and extra chairs. Holly dibbsed the
bathroom Kirby had.
He did leave a hole, but he's not gone far. He's not gone with
hostility. He didn't run away or leave early. He was twenty. We
didn't shove him out or make him go to college or pay rent or any of
that. It was gentle and peaceful.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
becoming hostile, difficult, hard-to-get-along-with, parent-snubbing
teenagers. -=-
Kirby was a little like that, compared to Marty and Holly. He never
quite recovered from moving to a new house. He didn't get the room
he wanted. Puberty hit him hard and he was gone a lot, with work and
karate. I see ALL the negatives of some problems Kirby and I had.
Then I pull out the too-close focus and remember that my relationship
with Kirby was better than ANY of our friends whose kids his age were
in school. WAY better.
When Kirby knew he was going to move, last summer, a kind of
compensatory niceness came over him. It seemed as though he had been
planning to be nicer later, and his later was disappearing. It was
all sunshine and roses from the time he knew he was getting a job in
Texas. He calls me a couple of times a week just to see how I am. I
forget to call him in the two very small windows in his day. He's
awake for an hour before he gets to work, they're all like black-out
at work (no phones, no e-mail), he takes one break outside the
building to eat and do errands, and gets home usually after I'm in
bed. He works ten hours lots of times, and currently is working
eight days straight because they changed his two days off to
Wednesday and Thursday.
So I know where he is, and I'm glad to know what his apartment is
like now, and he tells me stories and is really sweet.
His room did change. The closet and half the shelves still have his
stuff where he left it but we moved the desk (door on two bases with
drawers) and that room is the games room now, kind of a den for
upstairs. It has Rock Band (which Kirby sent us for Christmas) and
XBox, TV, Marty's computer, and extra chairs. Holly dibbsed the
bathroom Kirby had.
He did leave a hole, but he's not gone far. He's not gone with
hostility. He didn't run away or leave early. He was twenty. We
didn't shove him out or make him go to college or pay rent or any of
that. It was gentle and peaceful.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
DaBreeze21
> ~~This is one of the things that I love hearing about from experienced
> It won't be the same, but it won't be worse - it is AWESOME to be the
> mom of teenagers and young adults. I thought it would be heartbreaking
> - that it was inevitable that they'd go through a period of not
> wanting parents around, etc.~~
>
>
> I agree and I disagree....
> It IS awesome to be the mother of teens and young adults. Definitely!
> But it's heartbreaking too.
>
unschoolers, that our relationships with our kids can grow and
continue to be GOOD at the same time. When I said that I know that it
(my relationship with my daughter) will not always be this way, I
meant that I know she will continue to grow more independent and not
need me as much as she does now in the way that a baby and small child
does. I'm trying to really live in the moment and cherish it instead
of resent it, and I have been pretty successful for the most part.
I never went through a rebellious period. I have ALWAYS been very
close with my mother, we really couldn't get much closer. Ironically,
she is a teacher -- I had her for math 2 years in high school! People
always think that that must have been awful, or terribly difficult,
but it wasn't, it was great. So I really believe all of these accounts
of parents with great relationships with their teens, and it I aspire
to keeping my relationship with my daughter healthy through all of her
"ages".
Sylvia Toyama
Trevor moved out last week and I sat in his empty room and cried for a
bit. I'm really happy for him, don't get me wrong. But I didn't
realize how strange it would feel now that he's officially moved out.
He'd been gone frequently so I thought I was ready!
****
It was downright surreal when Will left home. I left his room just
the way he'd left it for almost a year, then we moved Dan's stuff in
there when his toys outgrew the playroom. Will was back for a few
months in 05 when he came back to New Mexico, but has been in his own
place for more than 2 yrs now.
Since Gary took an over the road job, and is only home every 3rd day,
Will's been here at least two days (and nights) a week. He comes
over, brings his laundry, and hangs out with us. Yes, he spends a
lot of that time online, but he will just hang out and play with the
boys, have dinner with me, and stay with the boys so I can run
errands or walk the dog (Andy's not crazy about dog walks). It's
really nice to have him around as an adult -- even nicer since there
were some really rocky years with him. He's not an always unschooled
kid. He is the one who brought us into homeschooling, and later
unschooling. He is the child of my single parent years (9 total) and
as a firstborn, he carries the weight of my learning years. He's a
3rd generation firstborn, so we have what we call the 'prototype
experience' in common.<g>
It's really wonderful to have a grown child. We text back and forth
about all kinds of things. When we added him to our cell phone plan,
he insisted on having messaging, so he pays for it. I told him we'd
never use it, so he texts us, mostly to bring us into the 21st
century I think.
I can say even when you find unschooling late, it still increases the
joy of being Mom to an older child.
Sylvia
bit. I'm really happy for him, don't get me wrong. But I didn't
realize how strange it would feel now that he's officially moved out.
He'd been gone frequently so I thought I was ready!
****
It was downright surreal when Will left home. I left his room just
the way he'd left it for almost a year, then we moved Dan's stuff in
there when his toys outgrew the playroom. Will was back for a few
months in 05 when he came back to New Mexico, but has been in his own
place for more than 2 yrs now.
Since Gary took an over the road job, and is only home every 3rd day,
Will's been here at least two days (and nights) a week. He comes
over, brings his laundry, and hangs out with us. Yes, he spends a
lot of that time online, but he will just hang out and play with the
boys, have dinner with me, and stay with the boys so I can run
errands or walk the dog (Andy's not crazy about dog walks). It's
really nice to have him around as an adult -- even nicer since there
were some really rocky years with him. He's not an always unschooled
kid. He is the one who brought us into homeschooling, and later
unschooling. He is the child of my single parent years (9 total) and
as a firstborn, he carries the weight of my learning years. He's a
3rd generation firstborn, so we have what we call the 'prototype
experience' in common.<g>
It's really wonderful to have a grown child. We text back and forth
about all kinds of things. When we added him to our cell phone plan,
he insisted on having messaging, so he pays for it. I told him we'd
never use it, so he texts us, mostly to bring us into the 21st
century I think.
I can say even when you find unschooling late, it still increases the
joy of being Mom to an older child.
Sylvia
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/30/2008 7:43:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Sandra@... writes:
On Mother's Day all my kids were extra nice to me, but they're nice
to me all the time.
Wyl, 9, has been extra nice and very thoughtful, lately.
Yesterday, he asked Dave to help him make breakfast for me (scrambled eggs,
toast, bacon and orange juice) which he joyfully brought me when I came
downstairs.
Recently, he willingly and happily jumped in to help me when Dave was out of
town and I was collecting trash to take down to the curb on garbage day,
playfully cleaning out from under the little table he and his brother eat, play,
watch t.v., etc. at (it tends to collect wrappers, cups, etc., since I can't
see under it unless I bend over quite far and specifically look).
He's been very loving and huggy the last week or so.
Today, after Storm was asleep, I turned to see if he looked comfortable and
sound asleep before I called down to let Dave and Wyl know Storm was out and
noticed he had moved over to the other (Wyl's usual sleeping space) bed
(pushed up next to ours). I made sure they knew that so Wyl could be careful
getting into bed and not squish or hurt Storm. When he got done brushing his teeth,
he came in (Dave had come in to see if I wanted him to move Storm) and asked
if he could take a "really quick" bath. Dave went in to take him underwear
and help him run water and when he came back in, he said that Wyl had wanted
to take a bath so he would be nice and clean when he lay down beside me. Aww,
how sweet!
Funny how things start to happen when you quit looking for them to or
wondering where the heck they are...
Peace,
De
**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra@... writes:
On Mother's Day all my kids were extra nice to me, but they're nice
to me all the time.
Wyl, 9, has been extra nice and very thoughtful, lately.
Yesterday, he asked Dave to help him make breakfast for me (scrambled eggs,
toast, bacon and orange juice) which he joyfully brought me when I came
downstairs.
Recently, he willingly and happily jumped in to help me when Dave was out of
town and I was collecting trash to take down to the curb on garbage day,
playfully cleaning out from under the little table he and his brother eat, play,
watch t.v., etc. at (it tends to collect wrappers, cups, etc., since I can't
see under it unless I bend over quite far and specifically look).
He's been very loving and huggy the last week or so.
Today, after Storm was asleep, I turned to see if he looked comfortable and
sound asleep before I called down to let Dave and Wyl know Storm was out and
noticed he had moved over to the other (Wyl's usual sleeping space) bed
(pushed up next to ours). I made sure they knew that so Wyl could be careful
getting into bed and not squish or hurt Storm. When he got done brushing his teeth,
he came in (Dave had come in to see if I wanted him to move Storm) and asked
if he could take a "really quick" bath. Dave went in to take him underwear
and help him run water and when he came back in, he said that Wyl had wanted
to take a bath so he would be nice and clean when he lay down beside me. Aww,
how sweet!
Funny how things start to happen when you quit looking for them to or
wondering where the heck they are...
Peace,
De
**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~He is the child of my single parent years (9 total) and
as a firstborn, he carries the weight of my learning years. ~~
Ah yes, Trevor too. He remembers all the mainstream crap we slowly
moved away from. There is still some distance between he and Bleu
because of it.
I'd have to go look at where it's written down, but I believe he's a
sixth generation firstborn. The first boy in that six generations! I
was also a first granchild six generations back and a first great
granchild that far back. Weird. I feel like I have to be the bulwark
against all that family control and intensity many of us experienced.
The women on both sides are fierce creatures.:)
It hit me that even if Trevor comes back to live with us, it's as an
adult living on his own and it felt so different somehow. We talked
last night, he said "I really miss you guys" and I know he does. He's
always my firstborn and I'm confident we will always be close, but
things are transitioning and it's a lot to take in as a mother.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
as a firstborn, he carries the weight of my learning years. ~~
Ah yes, Trevor too. He remembers all the mainstream crap we slowly
moved away from. There is still some distance between he and Bleu
because of it.
I'd have to go look at where it's written down, but I believe he's a
sixth generation firstborn. The first boy in that six generations! I
was also a first granchild six generations back and a first great
granchild that far back. Weird. I feel like I have to be the bulwark
against all that family control and intensity many of us experienced.
The women on both sides are fierce creatures.:)
It hit me that even if Trevor comes back to live with us, it's as an
adult living on his own and it felt so different somehow. We talked
last night, he said "I really miss you guys" and I know he does. He's
always my firstborn and I'm confident we will always be close, but
things are transitioning and it's a lot to take in as a mother.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Sandra Dodd
-=-Wyl, 9, has been extra nice and very thoughtful, lately. -=-
That whole thing was beautiful, De, and now it lives here:
http://sandradodd.com/consideratechildren
Any more stories to add there? I'll mine what's already in that
topic later on.
Yesterday afternoon after I had written here I was going out into the
yard to work a long muddy job. I had taken money and cards out of my
pocket because I was going to get messy, and Keith asked if I had my
phone. I said yeah, it's pretty waterproof when it's closed. (I
wasn't going to get soaked, just mud-spattered.)
Two steps away from the porch, Kirby called. It wasn't his lunchtime
at all. He said they'd had a fire alarm evacuation and the fire
truck showed up in four minutes, but before they were even all at the
parking lot they're supposed to walk to in case of fire, they were
called back in.
I asked if he'd smelled smoke, and he said no, but before the alarm
went off he had heard a big, odd noise like a fire extinguisher.
Even then, I figured he had just called to chat because they were up
and disrupted anyway. But it was better than that.
He had told his group not to say "fire" if they needed to leave an IM
or a phone conversation, just to say they'd be back. Others, though,
had communicated to their clients that the building was on fire. <g>
Being that they only work with tech-connected people in all
directions, he was afraid word would get out that there was a fire at
Blizzard's Austin facility, and that I would be worried. Good
thinking on his part!! I was going to be out in the mud and not at
the computer, but wasn't that thoughtful of him to call me? Maybe
three minutes later, Holly called me. She's housesitting, and was
letting me know she was going to see Sex in the City with two older
female friends. She's not old enough to see an R rated movie without
me, but she knows where to go and how to act to slip in. Some
theaters check and others don't.
So I was able to tell her to tell Brett (her very-World-of-Warcraft-
playing boyfriend) that if he heard anything about a fire, it was
very minor if at all, and Kirby was fine.
Very efficient, and all in all another good example of the
relationships in my family (Kirby's 21 and Holly's 16).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That whole thing was beautiful, De, and now it lives here:
http://sandradodd.com/consideratechildren
Any more stories to add there? I'll mine what's already in that
topic later on.
Yesterday afternoon after I had written here I was going out into the
yard to work a long muddy job. I had taken money and cards out of my
pocket because I was going to get messy, and Keith asked if I had my
phone. I said yeah, it's pretty waterproof when it's closed. (I
wasn't going to get soaked, just mud-spattered.)
Two steps away from the porch, Kirby called. It wasn't his lunchtime
at all. He said they'd had a fire alarm evacuation and the fire
truck showed up in four minutes, but before they were even all at the
parking lot they're supposed to walk to in case of fire, they were
called back in.
I asked if he'd smelled smoke, and he said no, but before the alarm
went off he had heard a big, odd noise like a fire extinguisher.
Even then, I figured he had just called to chat because they were up
and disrupted anyway. But it was better than that.
He had told his group not to say "fire" if they needed to leave an IM
or a phone conversation, just to say they'd be back. Others, though,
had communicated to their clients that the building was on fire. <g>
Being that they only work with tech-connected people in all
directions, he was afraid word would get out that there was a fire at
Blizzard's Austin facility, and that I would be worried. Good
thinking on his part!! I was going to be out in the mud and not at
the computer, but wasn't that thoughtful of him to call me? Maybe
three minutes later, Holly called me. She's housesitting, and was
letting me know she was going to see Sex in the City with two older
female friends. She's not old enough to see an R rated movie without
me, but she knows where to go and how to act to slip in. Some
theaters check and others don't.
So I was able to tell her to tell Brett (her very-World-of-Warcraft-
playing boyfriend) that if he heard anything about a fire, it was
very minor if at all, and Kirby was fine.
Very efficient, and all in all another good example of the
relationships in my family (Kirby's 21 and Holly's 16).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
keetry
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...>
wrote:
terms, it was too soon. He was only 16, 17 now. I took it hard. I
cried every night for a long time. I would sit in his empty room and
smell him still in there. I'm just now getting to a point where I
don't get really depressed right after seeing him. I still get myself
worked up sometimes, though.
He would send me messages on Myspace until he lost his internet
connections. He calls me every few days just to check in. The other
night he called while watching Deadliest Catch just to chat. It's all
very surreal to me. I don't feel old enough to have a child who is
practically grown and out of the house. It doesn't seem like he's
really moved out. I'm waiting for him to come back.
Alysia
wrote:
>My oldest moved out on the 1st of the year. Even though it was on good
> It hit me that even if Trevor comes back to live with us, it's as an
> adult living on his own and it felt so different somehow. We talked
> last night, he said "I really miss you guys" and I know he does. He's
> always my firstborn and I'm confident we will always be close, but
> things are transitioning and it's a lot to take in as a mother.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
terms, it was too soon. He was only 16, 17 now. I took it hard. I
cried every night for a long time. I would sit in his empty room and
smell him still in there. I'm just now getting to a point where I
don't get really depressed right after seeing him. I still get myself
worked up sometimes, though.
He would send me messages on Myspace until he lost his internet
connections. He calls me every few days just to check in. The other
night he called while watching Deadliest Catch just to chat. It's all
very surreal to me. I don't feel old enough to have a child who is
practically grown and out of the house. It doesn't seem like he's
really moved out. I'm waiting for him to come back.
Alysia
Sandra Dodd
-=-My oldest moved out on the 1st of the year. Even though it was on
good
terms, it was too soon. He was only 16, 17 now.-=-
Holly will be 17 in November. She has a serious boyfriend now,
older; older than Kirby. He's a friend of Kirby's and Marty's.
Usually they're both here, if they're together, but there have been a
couple of times they were elsewhere. That seems too soon, though
it's on good terms, and she still lives here. But it's like a crack
in the surface of a door and I see the light, and I feel the mom
pangs. I still remember what she smelled like as a baby, and what it
felt like to hold her on my hip, but the memories are dimming.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
good
terms, it was too soon. He was only 16, 17 now.-=-
Holly will be 17 in November. She has a serious boyfriend now,
older; older than Kirby. He's a friend of Kirby's and Marty's.
Usually they're both here, if they're together, but there have been a
couple of times they were elsewhere. That seems too soon, though
it's on good terms, and she still lives here. But it's like a crack
in the surface of a door and I see the light, and I feel the mom
pangs. I still remember what she smelled like as a baby, and what it
felt like to hold her on my hip, but the memories are dimming.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
joy. Although, there was certainly a time long ago when I wouldn't
have believed myself that it was even possible.
I doubt very much whether the author did do "everything right". More
likely, what she means (this is a female Robin, I'm assuming) is that
she did everything according to the conventional 'rules of parenting'.
Which, in my experience, have a habit of creating three problems for
every one they allegedly solve.
I'm reminded of an article I was reading myself recently (can't find
it now) by a professional 'parenting coach' who took pretty much the
same (totally wrong imnsho) attitude to the nature of children. She
was writing about the inevitability of losing our tempers with our
children and screaming and shouting at them and how parents can deal
with the consequences of that supposedly normal parenting experience.
Without feeling guilty, naturally.
In my two decades plus of parenting experience, screaming and shouting
at my children has simply never happened, neither from me nor from my
wife. At worst, I occasionally raised my voice a notch or two to my
son during his second year at school - maybe a dozen times in all -
when his unhappiness with that situation ultimately started to express
itself in disruptive behaviour. Easily resolved by getting him out of
the situation.
Which doesn't mean I could be a better parenting coach. I don't do
'child management' and that seems to be what most parents want. Very
sad, though, to see misinformation being passed on.
Bob
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>It's absolutely not inevitable. My daughter's teenage years were a
>
>
> Parents worry in advance that they will, inevitably, have to deal with
> those "teen years" when their kids will be sullen, angry, rebellious,
> defiant, disrespectful, secretive, hostile, and on and on.
>
> That is not inevitable and is not at all "normal" in unschooled teens.
>
joy. Although, there was certainly a time long ago when I wouldn't
have believed myself that it was even possible.
> I was reading an article by a woman who has the nerve to go on and on<http://www.helium.com/items/1010686-teenagers-entirely-different-species
> about how important it is to set limits and not indulge your children
> and be strict and so on, and it turns out that her OWN young teen's
> behavior got so completely out of control that they sent him to a
> military boarding school. Her conclusion? Even when parents do
> everything right, some teens will go bad and then parents just have to
> be strong enough to make the tough choices.
>
> Here is the article:
>
> >Eeew. That articles sucks.
>
> It starts out with:
> "Teenagers are an entirely different species than most that inhabit
> the earth, or so it appears to rational adults."
>
>
I doubt very much whether the author did do "everything right". More
likely, what she means (this is a female Robin, I'm assuming) is that
she did everything according to the conventional 'rules of parenting'.
Which, in my experience, have a habit of creating three problems for
every one they allegedly solve.
I'm reminded of an article I was reading myself recently (can't find
it now) by a professional 'parenting coach' who took pretty much the
same (totally wrong imnsho) attitude to the nature of children. She
was writing about the inevitability of losing our tempers with our
children and screaming and shouting at them and how parents can deal
with the consequences of that supposedly normal parenting experience.
Without feeling guilty, naturally.
In my two decades plus of parenting experience, screaming and shouting
at my children has simply never happened, neither from me nor from my
wife. At worst, I occasionally raised my voice a notch or two to my
son during his second year at school - maybe a dozen times in all -
when his unhappiness with that situation ultimately started to express
itself in disruptive behaviour. Easily resolved by getting him out of
the situation.
Which doesn't mean I could be a better parenting coach. I don't do
'child management' and that seems to be what most parents want. Very
sad, though, to see misinformation being passed on.
Bob
Amy
>Two bits that I've loved lately -- The other day I overheard my
> Any more stories to add there? >
daughter (5) say to a friend who had stopped by "I'll play a little
later, right now I want to see if my Mommy wants to be on the couch
while I rub her back." And tonight - "It's the last gummy bear Mom -
you want it?"
I used to think all children her age were naturally sweet, but now I
think it's because we enjoy eachother so much, and enjoy making
eachother feel good.
Amy