Kim Musolff

Do unschoolers have schedules?

Since my kids were born, we've never really had an official schedule or
routine. But every once in awhile (like now) I have this need to "get
organized," and I try to get our family on some sort of loose
schedule/routine. We don't really map out our day by the hour or anything.
Just rough things like breakfast--play--outside--lunch--reading (me by
myself or me to the kids)--tv--outside--play--tv--dinner. I'm not really
strict about the schedule. If something else comes up, or if we don't feel
like sticking to it, we don't have to. Usually after a few weeks of this, I
don't really feel the need for the schedule anymore.

I don't know why I have this need. Sometimes I think the kids feel bored
and out of sorts because their days have no predictability. Sometimes *I*
feel out of sorts. Is there an "unschooly" way to schedule your days? Does
anyone else ever feel this need for predictability? Am I just bored?

Kim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Apr 12, 2008, at 11:16 PM, Kim Musolff wrote:

> I don't know why I have this need. Sometimes I think the kids feel
> bored
> and out of sorts because their days have no predictability.
> Sometimes *I*
> feel out of sorts. Is there an "unschooly" way to schedule your
> days? Does
> anyone else ever feel this need for predictability? Am I just bored?

Hmmm, Kim, I'm thinking if you have to ask "Am I just bored?" then you
are.

I'm sorry, I've forgotten how old your kids are.

If they're still young, your urge for a schedule might be a need to
feel you have "accomplished" something - that urge to be "productive."
Life with young children is all process, not much product (unless you
count dirty diapers as product <g>). Some of us are overly achievement-
oriented and are uncomfortable when we're not producing.

Maybe replace the urge to "schedule" with more of a "to-do list."
Every day you could put at least a few things on your to-do list that
will jazz up your lives. Put the usual things on there - appointments,
meal plans, play dates, library book due dates <G>. Add "make
playdough" and "put on loud music and dance." Stuff like that.

-pam



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kim Musolff

*** Maybe replace the urge to "schedule" with more of a "to-do list."
Every day you could put at least a few things on your to-do list that
will jazz up your lives. Put the usual things on there - appointments,
meal plans, play dates, library book due dates <G>. Add "make
playdough" and "put on loud music and dance." Stuff like that.***

Ooooh! I like this idea! That sounds a lot more fun than just "play!" I'm
going to try this tomorrow! Thanks!

BTW, yes, my kids are still young (6, 4, 6m).
Kim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Is there an "unschooly" way to schedule your days? Does
anyone else ever feel this need for predictability? Am I just bored?-=-



Don't schedule all the days the same way. Over the next few days,
schedule some things unlike what you've scheduled before. Here are
some ideas:

http://sandradodd.com/typical

although most of those days "just happened."

Once you get unschooling going well, once it starts to flow, you can
predict that most days will be full of cheer and learning, and some
will be quieter but there will still be learning going on.

I you have "play" on your schedule, it clearly implies the rest of
the time isn't for playing. Calling it "free time" would be worse.



Sandra

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strawlis

--- In [email protected], "Kim Musolff" <kmoose75@...>
wrote:
>
> Do unschoolers have schedules?
>


**** I recently noticed that our days seem to have fallen into a
pattern of Activity Day/Home Day....by very unconsious means. An
Activity Day could be any outing: library,a GS meeting/event,
sport/dance practice, day trip, swimming, park day, museum,ect. Home
days look like vegging,playing, board games, maintain our home,lots of
computer and TV time,cooking..you name it....Both types of days bring
much joy! The only scheduled things in our home life is Dh's work
hours...my part time work and my GS commitments...and the girls
respective interests' scheduled pratice times...and of course any
DR.appointments! We love the spontantety of our lives...and it makes
us think long and hard about making a commumitment to a new
actitivy/group that would rob us of that freedom/flexibilty! All that
being said...our lives are not devoid of plan/ing. It's just that we
choose, we make the plan..not someone or thing else.

Elisabeth, Mama to Liv(9)and Lex(7)

DJ250

I find my girls and I (I say that since hubby is away at work during the week so it's up to us!) do well with a loose schedule. Young children esp. need some predictability each day--it makes them feel safe and secure--such as having lunch at around the same time each day, a similar time each day when they get ready for outside or snack or what have you. My girls are 7 and 9 now so we can be looser but I notice they still get upset if I let them go past lunch and they suddenly say, "Oh, no, we missed lunch!". Not that it's a tragedy, we just go ahead and get something to eat. I do think children want and count on us to be their guides. Some unschoolers will disagree with my opinion regarding having a loose schedule but I find it helpful!

~Melissa :)

----- Original Message -----
From: strawlis
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 12:33 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Unschooling and schedules?


--- In [email protected], "Kim Musolff" <kmoose75@...>
wrote:
>
> Do unschoolers have schedules?
>


**** I recently noticed that our days seem to have fallen into a
pattern of Activity Day/Home Day....by very unconsious means. An
Activity Day could be any outing: library,a GS meeting/event,
sport/dance practice, day trip, swimming, park day, museum,ect. Home
days look like vegging,playing, board games, maintain our home,lots of
computer and TV time,cooking..you name it....Both types of days bring
much joy! The only scheduled things in our home life is Dh's work
hours...my part time work and my GS commitments...and the girls
respective interests' scheduled pratice times...and of course any
DR.appointments! We love the spontantety of our lives...and it makes
us think long and hard about making a commumitment to a new
actitivy/group that would rob us of that freedom/flexibilty! All that
being said...our lives are not devoid of plan/ing. It's just that we
choose, we make the plan..not someone or thing else.

Elisabeth, Mama to Liv(9)and Lex(7)






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Sandra Dodd

-=-Some unschoolers will disagree with my opinion regarding having a
loose schedule but I find it helpful!-=-

I understand that it's your opinion, but is it the opinion of an
unschooler?

That's important for other readers to know. Do you consider yourself
an unschooler?

-=-Young children esp. need some predictability each day--it makes
them feel safe and secure--such as having lunch at around the same
time each day, a similar time each day when they get ready for
outside or snack or what have you. -=-

The idea that a schedule adds to security comes from social work, I
believe--work with foster children and orphans. It's a way that
traumatized children can find more stability.

-=-Young children esp. need some predictability each day--it makes
them feel safe and secure---=-

Young children need to feel safe and secure. A regular lunch could
not possibly add to the security of a young child who sleeps with his
mom, wakes up gently, eats when he's hungry regardless of the time on
the clock, because he always nursed when he wanted to and his mom
doesn't say "You can't eat yet, it's not lunchtime."

A schedule could not possibly add to the feeling of safety of a child
who is free to be with her mom as much as she wants to be. If a
child is forced away to school, then lunch on time might be the only
safe touchstone in a sea of fear. But at home?

I'm questioning "lunch" (are kids not allowed food before or after a
certain time?) and "safe" and "secure," in light of unschooling.

Sandra

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Pamela Sorooshian

On Apr 13, 2008, at 9:43 AM, DJ250 wrote:

> Young children esp. need some predictability each day--it makes them
> feel safe and secure--such as having lunch at around the same time
> each day, a similar time each day when they get ready for outside or
> snack or what have you.

Some kids may thrive with that kind of scheduling, but my life has
NEVER been like that and my kids never ever had one day like the one
before it. They thrive on unpredictability - doesn't disturb them at
all. They fell asleep when they were sleepy, wherever we were. They
ate when hungry. They played inside all day one day and then outside
all day for the next three days. Whatever!

Seems as soon as someone says "...children need..." then there is
going to be someone with the opposite experience or opinion!

We have to look for real at our own real kids and think about what
that particular child needs. And then we have to keep looking and
thinking because their needs change over time!

-pam

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carnationsgalore

> *** Maybe replace the urge to "schedule" with more of a "to-do list."
> Every day you could put at least a few things on your to-do list that
> will jazz up your lives. Put the usual things on there -
> appointments,
> meal plans, play dates, library book due dates <G>. Add "make
> playdough" and "put on loud music and dance." Stuff like that.***

Great idea! Something that worked well when my kids were much younger
was a poster hung on the wall that had pictures of activities. We had
so much stuff that it was impossible to leave it all out, spread out,
for exploration. So I put pictures on the wall, this was before they
both could read, so they'd remember what we had in our house.
Examples are puzzles, computer games, playdoh, blocks, markers,
pattern blocks, board games, etc.

Beth M.

carnationsgalore

I've never had a schedule that defines times for certain times such as
playing outside or eating. We are a family of 5 and we are in and out
of the kitchen all day. My kids don't always agree on what to do.
One is outside riding her scooter while the other one is in his room
playing video games. 6 years ago, that would have been one is jumping
on the trampoline outside while the other is in the playroom with his
Legos. :)

Beth M.

Sandra Dodd

-=-> Young children esp. need some predictability each day--it makes
them
> feel safe and secure--such as having lunch at around the same time
> each day, a similar time each day when they get ready for outside or
> snack or what have you.-=-



Someone wrote to me privately saying she has a child who needs to
know what's happening the next day and when meals will be and what
they will be, and that he might could be diagnosable with obsessive
compulsive disorder or some such. Possible.



Okay. He still doesn't need for the same things to happen the same
way every day.

I like to know what's going on in advance if something's going on.
That doesn't mean there's something wrong with me. Holly and I went
to a movie. We knew yesterday we were going to. We might go to
another one Tuesday. That doesn't mean we need to go to a movie
once a week at the same time, it means we like to have our plans a
day or three in advance so we can plan around them. But for
tomorrow there's nothing on the schedule but to feed Ben's dogs.
That flexibility is what enables us to go and do something
interesting on the spur of the moment.

Maybe some people are seeing it as an all or nothing: either a life
is scheduled and there is a routine, or there is chaos an no one
could ever possibly know what's going on.

Balance. Real reasons, not defaults. Thoughtful decisions, not
reactions.



http://sandradodd.com/balance



Sandra

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Bob Collier

--- In [email protected], "Kim Musolff" <kmoose75@...> wrote:
>
> Do unschoolers have schedules?
>
>

I don't.

What happens, happens.

Bob

Jenny C

"Young children esp. need some predictability each day--it makes them
feel safe and secure--such as having lunch at around the same time each
day, a similar time each day when they get ready for outside or snack or
what have you."

That may work for some kids, but it's arbitrary to make schedules based
on a time clock. My first daughter set a very regular eating and
sleeping schedule almost from the moment she was born. It was nothing I
did really, I just followed her lead and did what felt natural. If I
had tried to duplicate that same schedule for my second child, I
would've been spinning my wheels and making life more difficult than
needed. Both of my kids feel safe and secure because of meeting their
needs, not because of any schedule. It was more about the
predictability of me meeting their needs.

" My girls are 7 and 9 now so we can be looser but I notice they still
get upset if I let them go past lunch and they suddenly say, "Oh, no, we
missed lunch!". "

Why would a certain age create a more loose schedule? I think perhaps
that the tightness of a schedule would cause a child to be upset about
missing a lunch hour. If there wasn't a tight schedule it would just be
a child wanting something to eat because they are hungry. How can
someone miss lunch, if they haven't had it yet? You can't miss
something you have yet to do.

It seems unnecessary to create that kind of tension within a home when
you could focus on making it happy and fun while meeting the needs of
your children.

"Not that it's a tragedy, we just go ahead and get something to eat. I
do think children want and count on us to be their guides. Some
unschoolers will disagree with my opinion regarding having a loose
schedule but I find it helpful!"

Not only is it not a tragedy, it isn't really anything that should be
remarked upon with exclamation. It's lunch, it's hunger. I'm wondering
if a schedule like that would cause a child to rely on a time clock and
if that would really be conducive to unschooling. I really think it
would hinder the free flowing way that unschooling works, even if you
have a "loose" schedule that can be broken, it begs the question, "why
have a schedule at all?". Why not live life and do things and if
something requires a time commitment, then so be it.

By suggesting that kids need time schedules to create safe and secure
kids, it opens the door to suggesting that kids also need math and book
time and recess. Those are all ideas touted at school to promote the
idea that predictability creates safe and secure kids that are ready to
soak up what a teacher tells them.

ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH

I have a hard time with last minute changes to a schedule. That isn't about having a schedule, I suppose, but that I don't turn off of a path easily. The other day Simon wanted to radically change the plans for his birthday celebration and I had a bit of a grumble, but did it and it worked out well. Knowing that I have to pause and rethink for a few minutes when a change is what is being asked for helps me a lot.

David's parents have a really rigid schedule. When we were in Japan and they came to visit they would get visibly flustered if we missed their 11:00 coffee ritual. And when we visit them, nothing will move them from their very ritualized life. They've been ex-pats for much of their life, sort of the last of the British colonialist generation, and I can picture them carving out a little Britain for themselves wherever they went. David has said that their cooks, wherever they lived be it Malaysia or Oman or the Phillipines or Hong Kong, always had to cook a meat and two vege for dinner. He's said that it wasn't as good or as companionable as eating in the kitchen with the staff. I would much rather figure out ways to move off a schedule than lose out on an experience because I couldn't shift.

Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com

----- Original Message ----
From: Bob Collier <bobcollier@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, 14 April, 2008 3:38:42 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Unschooling and schedules?

--- In [email protected], "Kim Musolff" <kmoose75@...> wrote:
>
> Do unschoolers have schedules?
>
>

I don't.

What happens, happens.

Bob


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links








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Sandra Dodd

-=-> Do unschoolers have schedules?-=-

We have touchstones and declarations. <g>

Holly and I watched Desperate Housewives last night.
Marty goes to work at 5:30 today.
Holly and I are going to a movie tomorrow afternoon.
Keith returned from Colorado on schedule.
CHANGE OF PLAN: because I didn't unpack his laundry bag, he
took the Saturn instead of the motorcycle because his belt and jeans
were elsewhere--we have a big house and it was cold and... my fault.

Because it's Monday, no one can park on the street or the trash won't
be taken from anywhere in the cul-de-sac. This is always stated as a
reminder on Sunday nights. "Tomorrow's trash day." The city
scheduled that one, not us.

Oh! The city scheduled that one, ABC scheduled the show, Pars
restaurant scheduled when Marty had to come to work...

We work around other people's schedules a lot!

Sandra




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Sandra Dodd

-=-Both of my kids feel safe and secure because of meeting their
needs, not because of any schedule. It was more about the
predictability of me meeting their needs.-=-

Perfect! It's what I was thinking, but I didn't say it as well.

A scheduled lunch is important if the child is denied access to food
until lunch (as in school, as in families where they're told "No" a
lot, or where parents have the idea that snacks will spoil an
appetite, and it's easier to press a child to "clean the plate" if
he's kinda starving to the point that he'll eat spinach or lima
beans. YUCK to all that! (Well, not yuck to spinach or lima beans;
I'm fine with those, but to the methodology and purpose of scheduling.)



Sandra

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Sylvia Toyama

David's parents have a really rigid schedule. When we were in Japan
and they came to visit they would get visibly flustered if we missed
their 11:00 coffee ritual. And when we visit them, nothing will move
them from their very ritualized life.

*****
The inlaws are like this. Dinner is always at 6pm, floors are mopped
on Mondays, laundry done on Tuesday, and so on. When we visit them,
and when Andy has gone alone to stay with them for a time (they live
in Hawaii, we're in New Mexico) he loves the orderly schedule
aspect. He's even willing to go to bed at a set time so he can stay
on schedule for what grandma has planned for the next day.

It would be easy to look at this and think it means I should put him
on a schedule. But when I look closely I see that the demands of a
schedule imposed by someone else wear on him. He picks up repetitive
behaviors that serve as an outlet for personal control over his own
life. I can see where if Andy had to live on someone else's schedule
it would slowly destroy his peace.

Like Sandra said, we regularly work with others' schedules -- Monday
& Friday playdates with our local group, soccer game on Saturday,
volunteering at a friend's farm, meeting friends at the zoo, etc.
These tho are things we choose to do, they're always optional and
anytime we find it's not working for us on any day, we can just say
no.

And we schedule our own activities and outings. It helps Andy (11yo
ds) to know what we have on the calendar for the next day. He likes
the predictability of having a schedule -- even a loose one -- but
needs to be able to choose and alter that schedule as his needs and
moods change. Dan (7yo ds) is very much a spontaneous person -- he
resists most attempts to schedule him, convinced there's always
another time to do whatever he's not doing now. Throw in my oldest
who has his own place but overnights with us a night or two each
week, and who relies on me to help him with grocery store runs and a
ride to school when he's overnighted, and there are some required
schedules we all accommodate.

I'd never be able to impose a schedule on our kids, but it does help
to have a general idea of what we want to do and when things are
happening.

I agree tho that scheduling isn't rightly a part of unschooling. If
a child expresses a need for a schedule, it should be of his own
making, which would be just one aspect of how that child unschools.
If the adult feels a need for a schedule, then s/he can make his/her
own, but to impose it on a child doesn't really fit with
unschooling.

Sylvia

Jenny C

> I agree tho that scheduling isn't rightly a part of unschooling. If
> a child expresses a need for a schedule, it should be of his own
> making, which would be just one aspect of how that child unschools.
> If the adult feels a need for a schedule, then s/he can make his/her
> own, but to impose it on a child doesn't really fit with
> unschooling.


Part of my thinking on the schedules is that I have 2 kids who are VERY
different people. If one of my goals as an unschooling parent is to
parent each child how they need to be parented, then a one size fits all
schedule for both my girls wouldn't compliment that kind of parenting.
Even a loose schedule wouldn't really work well because my girls need
things at different times from one another. The only way any kind of
schedule would work for our family is one that I would impose on them.
I couldn't mesh out two completely different people's schedules and
impose one or the other on all of us. It would have to be mine and that
feels arbitrary and selfish.

My sister has her life ultra scheduled. She homeschools with recesses
and reading time and math time. Each day is given a different chore and
each day there are everyday chores that must be done by a certain time.
When we were visiting, occasionaly something would come up that was ONLY
one day and I would invite her and the kids to come. She usually
declined because of their schedule. It's full, there is no room in it
for doing spontaneous things that might very much enhance all their
lives. It really bothered me. I kept thinking, well, why can't you do
that tonight or tomorrow, and her thinking is that putting something off
till later gets her off schedule. Even when we scheduled something a
week in advance she had her kids scrambling to get everything done
before the event so that they wouldn't miss anything on their schedule
for the day that they would be skipping it to do something else.

It felt crazy making. It wasn't peaceful or happy or fun and on top of
all of it, the things that could have made it fun where being pushed
aside as trivial and meaningless. I think schedules can cause kids to
feel stress over time and cause them to see time as something that needs
to be filled up with "have to's" instead of using that time to do things
you love and get all that other stuff done as you go along. There will
be so many times in life when you "have to" do things on other people's
schedules that it seems silly to create that arbitrarily.

pyrgirl66

> NEVER been like that and my kids never ever had one day like the one
> before it. They thrive on unpredictability - doesn't disturb them at
> all. They fell asleep when they were sleepy, wherever we were. They
> ate when hungry. They played inside all day one day and then outside
> all day for the next three days. Whatever!
>
> Seems as soon as someone says "...children need..." then there is
> going to be someone with the opposite experience or opinion!
>
> We have to look for real at our own real kids and think about what
> that particular child needs. And then we have to keep looking and
> thinking because their needs change over time!
>
> -pam
>
This describes our home as well. And I don't think it could ever be any
different now. When I first pulled my 10 yr old son out of school (just
at the first of this year, so I'm still new at this), it was such a
blessing in so many ways. School actually interrupted our lives in so
many more ways than I ever realized. He was never a "scheduled" baby --
nursed when he wanted, napped when he wanted, etc. I was met with SO
much criticism -- "you should make HIM get used to being in YOUR life,
not plan YOUR life around HIM." I was just floored by that, and it came
from lots of different directions. Rest assured I didn't change my
"wicked ways" of mothering my baby -- besides, how exactly does one make
a baby conform?? I could go on and on about this...

Sorry -I sidetracked (I do that a lot). Going to school those few years
he did, we just got through the days. We had to be up by a certain
time, eat at a certain time, leave, etc. And of course the school
schedule was rigid and unbending. I didn't have the confidence in
myself at the time to "school" my own child - how sad is that? But
that's all changed (getting to this point is yet another long story I'll
share if anyone is really that interested) and we're living our lives.
WE live them. Not by a schedule and not by someone else's expectations.

My 2nd son, now 2 and 1/2, will NEVER be a scheduled kid of any kind.
He never has been predictible- not even before his arrival in the world
- never does the same thing two days in a row and I seriously doubt ever
will. And they are happy, healthy, thriving little boys. Hungry = eat
tired = rest or sleep want to go outside? GO! We do like others have
said - go to different activities, but we don't schedule them. And if
we're doing something already engaging when it's time for whatever
outside activity is planned, we choose. Well, my oldest chooses which
he would prefer to do.

Someone mentioned knowing someone who does certain things on certain
days. I have a friend who cleans on Mondays, regardless. Her birthday
was on a Monday. She cleaned all day. I don't get it. I once asked
her if she could just clean when something is in need of cleaning. She
was baffled. And someone mentioned in-laws who are rigid in scheduling.
Mine, as well. And I cannot get through to them that although we do not
have any particular hard and fast nap time, my little one does tend to
drift off after lunch (somewhere between 1 and 2 in the afternoon).
Every single holiday "dinner" is at high noon, no exceptions. And no
crib, no guest bed (no one allowed in the master bedroom), no place for
babies to sleep. I'm skipping the rest of these events until further
notice.

It's so refreshing to know that we're not alone in living our
what-may-come lives. I do not like to dread to do something. I do not
like to plan and plan and plan because when I used to do such planning,
9 times out of 10 it never played out like I planned in the first place.
It's nice to relax, take in the day, smell the roses, etc. Why should
my kids not have that same opportunity? They have things they want to
do - plant seeds, play games, read, tv, chase the dog, whatever. I am
along for the ride.

Julie



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elwazani

--- In [email protected], "Bob Collier" <bobcollier@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "Kim Musolff" <kmoose75@>
wrote:
> >
> > Do unschoolers have schedules?
> >
> >
>
> I don't.
>
> What happens, happens.
>
> Bob
>
We have "potential" schedules for some days...meaning that we know if
we are going to do our homeschool tae kwondo class...we need to be
out the door by 10:00am Wednsday, and back into town by 4 for rock
climbing...music lessons are on the calendar and we list the
homeschool open gym time so we remember we may want to go on
Tuesday...some days we do, others we're busy doing whatever...4-H
twice a month and that is it for a schedule Beverly

Ed Wendell

We keep a calendar - it hangs on the back of the coat closet door and we write scheduled events on it so we can keep track of what, where and when. It helps us to not schedule or plan things on top of each other. It also helps us remember things that have been planned in advance. Everything from doctor appointments to fun things scheduled for a certain date are written here.

If it is spontaneous for that day or moment it does not need to be written down.


A few years ago I let Zac pick out a special wooden box (recipe box size) at the craft store - it looked a bit like a treasure chest; We brain stormed ideas of things we could do, like the list others talked about, each idea was written on an index card. If we could not think of something to do we could go to the treasure chest of ideas. A note book would work just as well - but the special box looked nice sitting out where we'd remember we even had a list ;) And it was a special box to us - just shopping for the box and creating the cards was an activity in and of itself. I picture some kids enjoying decorating their own box. We only have one child so we had one box.


Lisa




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Sandra Dodd

Lisa wrote:
-=-We keep a calendar - it hangs on the back of the coat closet door
and we write scheduled events on it so we can keep track of what,
where and when. It helps us to not schedule or plan things on top of
each other. It also helps us remember things that have been planned
in advance. Everything from doctor appointments to fun things
scheduled for a certain date are written here.-=-

We have a big calendar on the wall in the kitchen. There are photos
here:

http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2008/01/end-of-kirbys-perfect-visit.html

If that cuts off, go to
http://sandradodd.blogspot.com and search (top left) for perfect visit

And on a big nail behind the door of one of the downstairs rooms are
others like it going back to 1998.

So YES I **do** keep calendars! <g> In retrospect, at least. We
have records of lots of doings there.

Sandra




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Kim Musolff

***I do not like to dread to do something. I do not
like to plan and plan and plan because when I used to do such planning,
9 times out of 10 it never played out like I planned in the first place.***



Is planning just an excuse for not doing? I am a huge planner! But I'm
horrible at following my plans! They don't sound as fun as they do on
paper. I'm trying hard to just have fun spontaneously. DH is awesome at
that, and is my role model.

Kim


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Kim Musolff

***he usually
declined because of their schedule. It's full, there is no room in it
for doing spontaneous things that might very much enhance all their
lives.***

This is how I feel! I've actually done this before--declined things because
it conflicted with my schedule! Before unschooling, I've even passed up
learning experiences, because it wasn't "in the schedule." I'd actually
think things like, "We'll talk more about dinosaurs when we do our dinosaur
unit." What was I thinking???

I don't know if I am an organized/structured person by nature or by habit.
I don't know if it's something that I should try really hard to give up or
try to accept about myself. Can people like me learn to be spontaneous? I
don't know. But I do know that it is amazing how my journey through
unschooling has gotten me to examine myself this closely! Very cool.
Kim


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Ren Allen

~~Not only is it not a tragedy, it isn't really anything that should be
remarked upon with exclamation. It's lunch, it's hunger. I'm wondering
if a schedule like that would cause a child to rely on a time clock and
if that would really be conducive to unschooling. ~~

I wonder about this too.

My children have always eaten when they are hungry, even before we
understood unschooling completely. They've never learned to connect
TIME to food, but hunger. Isn't that about trust? I don't see what
time has to do with it at all.

Some people might get hungry around the same times each day, but even
within that loose rhythm hunger would vary! If you eat because you're
hungry, not because it's a certain time, that's a MUCH more natural
way of nourishing your body.

We don't even have names for meals. We just eat! Do you call it lunch
if it's after breakfast or if it's around noon? Because we might have
two times of eating in there.

Sometimes I'll fix a substantial meal midday,sometimes in the
evening...we just go with the flow of what makes sense for that day
and our moods.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

pyrgirl66

--- In [email protected], "Kim Musolff" <kmoose75@...>
wrote:
>
> ***I do not like to dread to do something. I do not
> like to plan and plan and plan because when I used to do such
planning,
> 9 times out of 10 it never played out like I planned in the first
place.***
>
>
>
> Is planning just an excuse for not doing? I am a huge planner! But I'm
> horrible at following my plans! They don't sound as fun as they do on
> paper. I'm trying hard to just have fun spontaneously. DH is awesome
at
> that, and is my role model.
>
> Kim
>

I'm not sure what you mean about planning being an excuse for not doing.
But we do lots of things, just not in a completely structured order. We
do have weekly groups we meet with so that is a standing "plan" I
suppose. I should have written it better. We have different
activities that we decide we want to do. But we do not necessarily
select an exact date and time. It's not any fun to, say, go to the zoo
or museum or painting class if someone isn't up for it. I've done that,
and it's never a good turn-out if one of the kids is out of sorts or not
really interested at that time. You know how hard it is to do something
that you really do not want to do, or be someplace that you really do
not want to be. So that is the basis for our spontaneity. We have
places we want to go, have a "plan" for going to those places, i.e. time
of day, what to take, etc., but we only set the date if reservations are
required. Does that make sense? And btw, I, too, am not so great at
following through with my own plans. ;-)

Julie



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Joanna Murphy

> I don't know if I am an organized/structured person by nature or by habit.
> I don't know if it's something that I should try really hard to give up or
> try to accept about myself. Can people like me learn to be spontaneous?
>
You could decide to be on the lookout this week for something unexpected, and when it
comes, just do it. Be open to it with excitement, wait for it with anticipation, see if the kids
want to come aboard the spontaneity train!

Joanna

Sandra Dodd

-=-You could decide to be on the lookout this week for something
unexpected, and when it
comes, just do it. Be open to it with excitement, wait for it with
anticipation, see if the kids
want to come aboard the spontaneity train!-=-



Yes. Not just this week, but for the rest of your life.

Make choices. Make choices about which route to drive home. Sure,
on is usually most efficient, but what if another one lets you see a
neighborhood you've never driven through or a new building or a
construction site?

Shorter isn't always better.

Quicker isn't always better. ;-)

These might help:

http://sandradodd.com/puddle

http://sandradodd.com/joy



Sandra

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Jenny C

-- "you should make HIM get used to being in YOUR life,
> not plan YOUR life around HIM." I was just floored by that, and it
came
> from lots of different directions. Rest assured I didn't change my
> "wicked ways" of mothering my baby -- besides, how exactly does one
make
> a baby conform?? I could go on and on about this...
>

I heard that too when Chamille, now 14, was a baby. I knew what people
were saying but I implimented it differently. My husband and I decided
that having a baby wasn't going to change our life and make it all about
having a baby. We decided that we should continue doing the things
that we love doing and continue living our life and bring our sweet
little baby along for the ride. She got used to being in our lives,
partly because she was never NOT a part of our lives.

I became aware of how our culture treats children when Chamille was very
young. Kids are most definitely not allowed in much of the adult world.
That is something that bothered me back then, and still bothers me now.
I was never a bar goer, but the idea that I couldn't go to a brew pub
with my baby and have a burger and beer really irritated me. The big
thing back then, was that my husband was playing music locally and it
was hard to find places to play that allowed me to come with Chamille.

I think that part of the reason that Chamille is so easy going and goes
along with most plans and outings willingly is because she's always been
along for the ride. My younger daughter on the other hand made it
really difficult to parent that way because she cried all the time. She
doesn't go with the flow very easily.


>Well, my oldest chooses which
> he would prefer to do.
>


That is generally how it works when we go and do things at our house,
however Margaux, our youngest is starting to become autonomous about
things now. She wants a bigger voice. It's an interesting transition
here. We have been staying home most days because she is not wanting to
go anywhere, which ultimately frustrates her older sister, which I think
is kind of intentional. Chamille can stay home alone, but Margaux
can't. So if Chamille wants to do something, sister has to come along.
A lot of times we end up doing things in the evening so that Margaux can
stay home with either her dad or I and one of us can go and do something
with Chamille. It's not perfect but it works in the mean time, until we
can find something better.

pyrgirl66

>
We decided that we should continue doing the things
> that we love doing and continue living our life and bring our sweet
> little baby along for the ride. She got used to being in our lives,
> partly because she was never NOT a part of our lives.
>

You said it perfectly. Blake (oldest @ 10) loves doing things that we
do (except he didn't inherit what I refer to as the "animal gene" and
prefers fish to fur). He was an easy baby - could take him anywhere and
he was great with it, didn't cry, didn't try to destroy the place or
climb everything. Andrew, the 2 yr old, however, is the exact opposite
- much more challenging and ornery.


> I became aware of how our culture treats children when Chamille was
very
> young. Kids are most definitely not allowed in much of the adult
world.
> That is something that bothered me back then, and still bothers me
now.
> I was never a bar goer, but the idea that I couldn't go to a brew pub
> with my baby and have a burger and beer really irritated me. The big
> thing back then, was that my husband was playing music locally and it
> was hard to find places to play that allowed me to come with Chamille.

I don't know why this is. People always seem to stare with fear or
disgust when a baby/toddler enters a restaurant. We once went to a
Japanese restaurant - the hibachi/knife tossing type - for my birthday.
I knew Blake would love it, and he did - even the food. But we got such
odd looks for bringing a then 5 yr old to such a "grown-up" place. He
was perfect. Blake would have been fine there at age 2, but I wouldn't
dare to take Andrew right now because he would hate it.


>
> >
>> A lot of times we end up doing things in the evening so that Margaux
can
> stay home with either her dad or I and one of us can go and do
something
> with Chamille. It's not perfect but it works in the mean time, until
we
> can find something better.
>
That's us, as well. Blake and I have two days a week that my mother
comes to take care of Andrew during the afternoons -- Blake and I escape
to fun stuff. It's great having time with just him. And he does stuff
with daddy, too, on the weekends - the boy stuff that like rocks in the
creek/fort building/car tinkering stuff! Who knows if Andrew will ever
want to tag with them since he's such a mommy's baby right now (still
nursing). Our family outings are generally limited to Target, the
grocery store, maybe the park or something like that, or just
sight-seeing. Andrew detests his stroller (always has) and doesn't walk
on his own (getting there).

I know our activities and outings will just continue to evolve as the
boys grow and take on new interests. It will be interesting, though,
with their age differences to get them excited about the same place.

Julie



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