relatives, changes, and why we can unschool
Sandra Dodd
relatives, changes, and why we can unschool
================
I've been working this morning on a new section of the site:
http://sandradodd.com/relatives
It's not fancy nor full yet. One page existed elsewhere and I've
moved it here. One came from things I found here this morning.
We could use more links there. If any of you (now or in the future)
know of links to useful writings out and about, please send them here
to to me privately.
Things that promote peace are preferable to other. Some people are
cruel in breaking off with relatives, and it would be nice to bring
ideas for things that are less hurtful rather than more, though in
some cases the hurt seems deserved.
I was touched this morning by the mention of someone's mom suggesting
her children had ruined her life and disappointed her, without the
other side of that coin. It happens.
There have been discussions in the past on lists. I could probably
find something at unschooling.info
But if any of you want to contribute links or writings or stories,
that would be very cool.
OH! Why we can unschool now: TONS of books, magazines, movies, TV,
internet... the information age. That's why we can do something now
that even the schools can't even begin to do. We can wallow and
frolic in information.
Thanks,
Sandra
================
I've been working this morning on a new section of the site:
http://sandradodd.com/relatives
It's not fancy nor full yet. One page existed elsewhere and I've
moved it here. One came from things I found here this morning.
We could use more links there. If any of you (now or in the future)
know of links to useful writings out and about, please send them here
to to me privately.
Things that promote peace are preferable to other. Some people are
cruel in breaking off with relatives, and it would be nice to bring
ideas for things that are less hurtful rather than more, though in
some cases the hurt seems deserved.
I was touched this morning by the mention of someone's mom suggesting
her children had ruined her life and disappointed her, without the
other side of that coin. It happens.
There have been discussions in the past on lists. I could probably
find something at unschooling.info
But if any of you want to contribute links or writings or stories,
that would be very cool.
OH! Why we can unschool now: TONS of books, magazines, movies, TV,
internet... the information age. That's why we can do something now
that even the schools can't even begin to do. We can wallow and
frolic in information.
Thanks,
Sandra
Ed Wendell
To people/relatives when they ask about Zac's home education we can now say: "We wallow and frolic in information." ;)
Lisa W.
OH! Why we can unschool now: TONS of books, magazines, movies, TV,
internet... the information age. That's why we can do something now
that even the schools can't even begin to do. We can wallow and
frolic in information.
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa W.
OH! Why we can unschool now: TONS of books, magazines, movies, TV,
internet... the information age. That's why we can do something now
that even the schools can't even begin to do. We can wallow and
frolic in information.
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-To people/relatives when they ask about Zac's home education we
can now say: "We wallow and frolic in information." ;)-=-
I might start saying that too.
Maybe that's what we should've called unschooling years back when
people were complaining about the name.
WFI (no, it would be confused with WiFi)
uh.... Wallow, then Frolic
WTF Homeschooling. (No, I guess not...)
WallowyFrolicky? (Hard to pronounce and reminds me of 19th century
English children's literature.)
InfoFrolic (sounds like a condition, and not a good one... I
transpose it to "infrofollic" & it sounds like a skin disease)
WHERE IS DEB LEWIS? She can rearrange words and sounds most
artfully. And embarrassingly.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
can now say: "We wallow and frolic in information." ;)-=-
I might start saying that too.
Maybe that's what we should've called unschooling years back when
people were complaining about the name.
WFI (no, it would be confused with WiFi)
uh.... Wallow, then Frolic
WTF Homeschooling. (No, I guess not...)
WallowyFrolicky? (Hard to pronounce and reminds me of 19th century
English children's literature.)
InfoFrolic (sounds like a condition, and not a good one... I
transpose it to "infrofollic" & it sounds like a skin disease)
WHERE IS DEB LEWIS? She can rearrange words and sounds most
artfully. And embarrassingly.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ed Wendell
info-wo-fro ?
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanna Murphy
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
cruel in breaking off with relatives, and it would be nice to bring
ideas for things that are less hurtful rather than more, though in
some cases the hurt seems deserved.
As I've gotten older, I've found that I have less need to draw a line in the sand, although
that impulse certainly still rears its head on occasion--appropriate or not, but now I don't
have to follow that impulse-I can reflect on it first.
I've found that the more I live my own life through my own integrity, the less need I have
to challenge others, except when i get a little overzealous. The more my "track record"
can speak for itself, the less speaking I have to do. When I was younger, I didn't have a
track record--only ideas. So I was constantly defending my ideas against perceived
attack, or thinking I needed to change others' ideas in order to have enough space for my
own to thrive. Now I have the space I need--and it is entirely through my own creation.
No one has had to give me space or permission, I just live out my ideas and through the
living they have the space they need.
My relationships with family have never been better--the ones that can respect
differences are there, and the ones that can't have fallen away. And there is more
potential for sharing ideas if they aren't pushed--either on me or by me. The dance of
letting time pass and not having to have things happen now, now, now has been a
challenge, but it's paying off with everyone--especially my kids. The more I bite my
tongue and listen, the better off I am.
One of the things you learn working with horses is that there are times that you don't
approach directly--that's a predator way of thinking--you approach and then stop, or
even retreat. It creates a dialogue, an opening, a space for communication. Your partner
can step into it or not--and that's communication too. You don't always have to chase
down. Since learning this, I've been able to apply that to other relationships--and when I
remember too, it's always better to have more patience.
Joanna
>Things that promote peace are preferable to other. Some people are
cruel in breaking off with relatives, and it would be nice to bring
ideas for things that are less hurtful rather than more, though in
some cases the hurt seems deserved.
As I've gotten older, I've found that I have less need to draw a line in the sand, although
that impulse certainly still rears its head on occasion--appropriate or not, but now I don't
have to follow that impulse-I can reflect on it first.
I've found that the more I live my own life through my own integrity, the less need I have
to challenge others, except when i get a little overzealous. The more my "track record"
can speak for itself, the less speaking I have to do. When I was younger, I didn't have a
track record--only ideas. So I was constantly defending my ideas against perceived
attack, or thinking I needed to change others' ideas in order to have enough space for my
own to thrive. Now I have the space I need--and it is entirely through my own creation.
No one has had to give me space or permission, I just live out my ideas and through the
living they have the space they need.
My relationships with family have never been better--the ones that can respect
differences are there, and the ones that can't have fallen away. And there is more
potential for sharing ideas if they aren't pushed--either on me or by me. The dance of
letting time pass and not having to have things happen now, now, now has been a
challenge, but it's paying off with everyone--especially my kids. The more I bite my
tongue and listen, the better off I am.
One of the things you learn working with horses is that there are times that you don't
approach directly--that's a predator way of thinking--you approach and then stop, or
even retreat. It creates a dialogue, an opening, a space for communication. Your partner
can step into it or not--and that's communication too. You don't always have to chase
down. Since learning this, I've been able to apply that to other relationships--and when I
remember too, it's always better to have more patience.
Joanna
Sandra Dodd
-=-I've found that the more I live my own life through my own
integrity, the less need I have
to challenge others, except when i get a little overzealous. The more
my "track record"
can speak for itself, the less speaking I have to do. When I was
younger, I didn't have a
track record--only ideas. -=-
Experience and wisdom, though. There's legitimacy to waiting until
people can put up (and expecting them to shut up a bit in the
meantime). I've shushed a couple of younger friends in the past few
years for talking out their asses. They both said I was ageist. I
told them both to talk to me again when they were thirty.
It doesn't hurt my feelings that they think that being 21 makes you
equal to someone who's 64. They *will* grow out of their attitude.
<bwg>
-=-One of the things you learn working with horses is that there are
times that you don't
approach directly--that's a predator way of thinking--you approach
and then stop, or
even retreat. It creates a dialogue, an opening, a space for
communication. Your partner
can step into it or not--and that's communication too. You don't
always have to chase
down. Since learning this, I've been able to apply that to other
relationships--and when I
remember too, it's always better to have more patience.-=-
This is wonderful.
Lately there've been a couple of things others asked me for advice
about (interpersonal situations) and in both cases I reminded them
they can only make one move at a time, they can't plan out or
foresee the whole thing. I said it's like a game. You make your
best move and wait. See what they do. The game can end abruptly or
go on for many moves, and you just don't know at the beginning. But
you can make better moves.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
integrity, the less need I have
to challenge others, except when i get a little overzealous. The more
my "track record"
can speak for itself, the less speaking I have to do. When I was
younger, I didn't have a
track record--only ideas. -=-
Experience and wisdom, though. There's legitimacy to waiting until
people can put up (and expecting them to shut up a bit in the
meantime). I've shushed a couple of younger friends in the past few
years for talking out their asses. They both said I was ageist. I
told them both to talk to me again when they were thirty.
It doesn't hurt my feelings that they think that being 21 makes you
equal to someone who's 64. They *will* grow out of their attitude.
<bwg>
-=-One of the things you learn working with horses is that there are
times that you don't
approach directly--that's a predator way of thinking--you approach
and then stop, or
even retreat. It creates a dialogue, an opening, a space for
communication. Your partner
can step into it or not--and that's communication too. You don't
always have to chase
down. Since learning this, I've been able to apply that to other
relationships--and when I
remember too, it's always better to have more patience.-=-
This is wonderful.
Lately there've been a couple of things others asked me for advice
about (interpersonal situations) and in both cases I reminded them
they can only make one move at a time, they can't plan out or
foresee the whole thing. I said it's like a game. You make your
best move and wait. See what they do. The game can end abruptly or
go on for many moves, and you just don't know at the beginning. But
you can make better moves.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Clarissa Fetrow
This list has been doing me a lot of good, so I want to thank those who
write here.
This past week we were out of town visiting my mother and my adult sister.
While things went pretty well, the hardest part for me was observing - ach
- I don't know how to describe it all - here is a perfect example in place
of lots of words:
Grandma wanted us all to go to the zoo, her treat. When we got there, she
bought a comprehensive family annual membership, so that dd (5 years old)
could go every time we come visit (even thought that may be only two more
times this year). Dd and I waited while Grandma did this, dd getting mildly
impatient since we could see interesting things, but couldn't go in to where
they were, since the membership had to be bought first.
Once inside the zoo, right away we see an area where they are renting
strollers that look like little cars, with a steering wheel, for $5. Right
away, these little "cars" are the most interesting thing at the whole zoo
for dd. She is yearning for one. I know her, I know her love for all kinds
of wheeled vehicles, and I know that THIS is what would be the highlight of
the zoo experience for her. Grandma and Aunt are now impatient to get
moving through the zoo, and looking coldly disapproving as I pay the $5 to
rent the little car. Dd is delighted to be "driving."
Grandma wanted to give dd a zoo experience, but only on Grandma's terms.
This happens so often in the family I come from. It took courage to make
the choice to give my daughter what I knew would delight her, while my
mother and sister glowered. It went okay. It was practice for bigger
things.
Clarissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
write here.
This past week we were out of town visiting my mother and my adult sister.
While things went pretty well, the hardest part for me was observing - ach
- I don't know how to describe it all - here is a perfect example in place
of lots of words:
Grandma wanted us all to go to the zoo, her treat. When we got there, she
bought a comprehensive family annual membership, so that dd (5 years old)
could go every time we come visit (even thought that may be only two more
times this year). Dd and I waited while Grandma did this, dd getting mildly
impatient since we could see interesting things, but couldn't go in to where
they were, since the membership had to be bought first.
Once inside the zoo, right away we see an area where they are renting
strollers that look like little cars, with a steering wheel, for $5. Right
away, these little "cars" are the most interesting thing at the whole zoo
for dd. She is yearning for one. I know her, I know her love for all kinds
of wheeled vehicles, and I know that THIS is what would be the highlight of
the zoo experience for her. Grandma and Aunt are now impatient to get
moving through the zoo, and looking coldly disapproving as I pay the $5 to
rent the little car. Dd is delighted to be "driving."
Grandma wanted to give dd a zoo experience, but only on Grandma's terms.
This happens so often in the family I come from. It took courage to make
the choice to give my daughter what I knew would delight her, while my
mother and sister glowered. It went okay. It was practice for bigger
things.
Clarissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanna Murphy
Grandma and Aunt are now impatient to get
attitude like that in our family. Now that we have been overindulging (lol) our children for
many years, they are trusting that there is plenty. I have recently seen a big shift in their
generosity in many things--and lately my dd can't wait until she catches me cleaning
something so that she can help. This morning she begged to have helping to scrub the
bathroom be one of her weekly chores. It's hilarious, because we haven't had any kids
doing chores around here in years. She was delighted when i said, "Sure." The other night
we both scrubbed the whole kitchen at 1:00 am, and had a great time.
A few years ago, I would have given anything to have that kind of "compliance," and that's
how I would have thought of it. Now that the gift of time and help are given freely, I have
no attachment to whether she helps or not, except that it was very pleasant to have some
company. I think I needed to be at that place before the help could be offered freely.
So, to those of you who are still thinking that you need to require chores, I will just say
that the gift is sooooo sweet--but my nagging, demanding and whineyness weren't sweet
at all!
Joanna
> moving through the zoo, and looking coldly disapproving as I pay the $5 toI guess people think that kids will be spoiled if they are "indulged." We've had some
> rent the little car. Dd is delighted to be "driving."
>
> It took courage to make
> the choice to give my daughter what I knew would delight her, while my
> mother and sister glowered. It went okay. It was practice for bigger
> things.
attitude like that in our family. Now that we have been overindulging (lol) our children for
many years, they are trusting that there is plenty. I have recently seen a big shift in their
generosity in many things--and lately my dd can't wait until she catches me cleaning
something so that she can help. This morning she begged to have helping to scrub the
bathroom be one of her weekly chores. It's hilarious, because we haven't had any kids
doing chores around here in years. She was delighted when i said, "Sure." The other night
we both scrubbed the whole kitchen at 1:00 am, and had a great time.
A few years ago, I would have given anything to have that kind of "compliance," and that's
how I would have thought of it. Now that the gift of time and help are given freely, I have
no attachment to whether she helps or not, except that it was very pleasant to have some
company. I think I needed to be at that place before the help could be offered freely.
So, to those of you who are still thinking that you need to require chores, I will just say
that the gift is sooooo sweet--but my nagging, demanding and whineyness weren't sweet
at all!
Joanna
Ren Allen
~~Grandma wanted to give dd a zoo experience, but only on Grandma's
terms. This happens so often in the family I come from. It took
courage to make the choice to give my daughter what I knew would
delight her, while my mother and sister glowered. It went okay. It was
practice for bigger things.~~
That's really great.
It amazes me how people seem to do things for children in order to
"have fun" and then do everything they can to sabotage the fun! I'm
glad you could let their glowering be less important than her joy.:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
terms. This happens so often in the family I come from. It took
courage to make the choice to give my daughter what I knew would
delight her, while my mother and sister glowered. It went okay. It was
practice for bigger things.~~
That's really great.
It amazes me how people seem to do things for children in order to
"have fun" and then do everything they can to sabotage the fun! I'm
glad you could let their glowering be less important than her joy.:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Sylvia Toyama
Things that promote peace are preferable to other. Some people are
cruel in breaking off with relatives, and it would be nice to bring
ideas for things that are less hurtful rather than more, though in
some cases the hurt seems deserved.
*****
Kindness in breaking things off is preferable. This, for me, has
been a softening of perspective, a recognition on my part that trying
to insisting someone accept me as I am, just because they're related
to me, isn't peaceful.
When I received the letter from my Mom, I replied with a genuine
expression that I'm glad she's found her path to peace, and wished
her the best. I can and do forgive the painful parts of our past. I
do believe that parents always strive to do the best they can -- it
may not be the best they know, but I have to trust that in the
moment, it was the best she could do.
An important lesson for me years ago -- in my 20's when my Dad and I
were estranged -- was that I can forgive, but still not desire
relationship today. Growing up, I had the sense that letting go of
past hurts meant I had to embrace and welcome that person into my
life. It's all about setting boundaries.
My Dad and I have a relationship now. He lives in the same city, so
he knows we homeschool, but unschool's not a word he's ever heard.
Not because I'm amashed of how we live, but because it's not
necessary for him to know how we live day-to-day. He and I have very
different opinions and values, and after years of disagreeing
(loudly) with him, I realize it's easier -- and kinder to us both --
to just leave those topics alone. He trusts that I will always do my
best by my kids, and interprets best in his way. It never occurs to
him to ask me how we do things. Telling him what we're about, and
insisting he accept those ideas, would only invite disagreement,
which doesn't promote the kind of atmosphere we want for our kids.
We only recently talked about unschooling with my husband's parents.
They've known we homeschool since 2001, when we began, but when we
started unschooling in 2003, there was no need to share details. As
the boys have grown, and their relationship with their grandparents
has grown, it is helpful for them to know more about our lifestyle.
They've been very supportive -- they always are, really -- and gentle
in how they ask questions of us. Being open with them -- and not
defensive or demanding they understand us -- is a really good thing
for us all.
The situation with my Mom is different in that her argument isn't
with the academics of unschooling, but rather with the freedom of
respectful parenting. She is convinced that my choices as a Mom are
reactionary, and to her it feels like a slap in the face to see me
doing things so differently. Yes, 23 yrs ago when I became a Mom the
only tool in my kit was to do things the opposite from her methods,
and it was reactionary. Not a negative thing, given how I'd felt all
my childhood, but I wasn't loving enough towards her. I was still
too angry, too hurt, and I wanted her to see I was right (and that
she had been wrong), to accept me for who I am.
Over the years, my path has become less reactionary, yet still
farther from hers. Now I'm healed enough to not feel a need to have
her see that I'm right. I'm confident in the way we live and parent
our children. I think my confidence is even harder for her. When I
was reacting and demanding acceptance, she could discredit my choices
by saying I was just getting back at her. She's chosen to break off
from me, which suits me fine since she was lashing out at my kids.
Lately, I've been reminded of something my Mom told me years ago,
during my divorce. She said that kindness is sign of strenght or
power -- the more power one has, the kinder one can afford to be.
Her point was that the reason my ex was so outraged talking to me is
that I could be calm because I was stronger, and he could sense my
confidence meant he had lost power. She was right -- sometimes the
more confident we are, the more others oppose us. Funny how the same
has proven to be true in my relationship with her.
Sylvia
cruel in breaking off with relatives, and it would be nice to bring
ideas for things that are less hurtful rather than more, though in
some cases the hurt seems deserved.
*****
Kindness in breaking things off is preferable. This, for me, has
been a softening of perspective, a recognition on my part that trying
to insisting someone accept me as I am, just because they're related
to me, isn't peaceful.
When I received the letter from my Mom, I replied with a genuine
expression that I'm glad she's found her path to peace, and wished
her the best. I can and do forgive the painful parts of our past. I
do believe that parents always strive to do the best they can -- it
may not be the best they know, but I have to trust that in the
moment, it was the best she could do.
An important lesson for me years ago -- in my 20's when my Dad and I
were estranged -- was that I can forgive, but still not desire
relationship today. Growing up, I had the sense that letting go of
past hurts meant I had to embrace and welcome that person into my
life. It's all about setting boundaries.
My Dad and I have a relationship now. He lives in the same city, so
he knows we homeschool, but unschool's not a word he's ever heard.
Not because I'm amashed of how we live, but because it's not
necessary for him to know how we live day-to-day. He and I have very
different opinions and values, and after years of disagreeing
(loudly) with him, I realize it's easier -- and kinder to us both --
to just leave those topics alone. He trusts that I will always do my
best by my kids, and interprets best in his way. It never occurs to
him to ask me how we do things. Telling him what we're about, and
insisting he accept those ideas, would only invite disagreement,
which doesn't promote the kind of atmosphere we want for our kids.
We only recently talked about unschooling with my husband's parents.
They've known we homeschool since 2001, when we began, but when we
started unschooling in 2003, there was no need to share details. As
the boys have grown, and their relationship with their grandparents
has grown, it is helpful for them to know more about our lifestyle.
They've been very supportive -- they always are, really -- and gentle
in how they ask questions of us. Being open with them -- and not
defensive or demanding they understand us -- is a really good thing
for us all.
The situation with my Mom is different in that her argument isn't
with the academics of unschooling, but rather with the freedom of
respectful parenting. She is convinced that my choices as a Mom are
reactionary, and to her it feels like a slap in the face to see me
doing things so differently. Yes, 23 yrs ago when I became a Mom the
only tool in my kit was to do things the opposite from her methods,
and it was reactionary. Not a negative thing, given how I'd felt all
my childhood, but I wasn't loving enough towards her. I was still
too angry, too hurt, and I wanted her to see I was right (and that
she had been wrong), to accept me for who I am.
Over the years, my path has become less reactionary, yet still
farther from hers. Now I'm healed enough to not feel a need to have
her see that I'm right. I'm confident in the way we live and parent
our children. I think my confidence is even harder for her. When I
was reacting and demanding acceptance, she could discredit my choices
by saying I was just getting back at her. She's chosen to break off
from me, which suits me fine since she was lashing out at my kids.
Lately, I've been reminded of something my Mom told me years ago,
during my divorce. She said that kindness is sign of strenght or
power -- the more power one has, the kinder one can afford to be.
Her point was that the reason my ex was so outraged talking to me is
that I could be calm because I was stronger, and he could sense my
confidence meant he had lost power. She was right -- sometimes the
more confident we are, the more others oppose us. Funny how the same
has proven to be true in my relationship with her.
Sylvia
Mamachaos
Frolicking Familes.......
I love this idea....it is a great thing to have a sentence to sometimes be able to therefore appease the opposed.
I try not to DISAGREE with family members, as they are usually shooting from the hip with what THEY do with their children, or what they THINK they would do. They do not have my life, my children, my background, my chaos-theory of life, and therefore why be threathened or feel the need to draw that LINE in the sand? I allow the ebb and flow of flotsam and jetsum to wash away the line, and leave them with only enough information to keep them thinking, and not enough to leave them judging. It is essentially not anyone else's business what my decisions are......I have had to deal with questioning about natural birthing, home birthing, extended breastfeeding, family bed, no vaccines, homeschooling, now unschooling. If I felt the need to PROVE my point, or validate my choices, I would be exhausted. Channel the energy THAT takes into what you feel you are doing that IS right, IS good and IS life-affirming with your family. (your kids)
Will it really matter anyway in 10 years, this proving?? NO. But it absolutely DOES dillute your ability to BE present and to FEEL right about your choices, when you are in the defensive mode. Forget it. Of course we all want others to approve, to applaud, to agree, to share with us the wonderful things that happen precisely BECAUSE of our choices, but there will be only a few who will be there in this regard. It could be that they will only be found on lists like this! :)Remember the value of your siblings, uncles, moms, grandmothers etc........those relationships have never been about your children. Your relationships with these people were created before you had children, before you ever gave thought to the choices before you. It is a separate box, that when opened up can give you great joy. This may mean that you don't leave your kids with grandma, but that does not take away YOUR relationship with your mom. I have found that if I let all my relationships bleed into eachother, none would be the personal relationships that they are today. Sometimes it takes some juggling, and I have found it worth it to juggle--a great art I am learning to use for my benefit.
Kelley
http://sandandstardust.blogspot.com/
"Childhood is a journey, not a race."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I love this idea....it is a great thing to have a sentence to sometimes be able to therefore appease the opposed.
I try not to DISAGREE with family members, as they are usually shooting from the hip with what THEY do with their children, or what they THINK they would do. They do not have my life, my children, my background, my chaos-theory of life, and therefore why be threathened or feel the need to draw that LINE in the sand? I allow the ebb and flow of flotsam and jetsum to wash away the line, and leave them with only enough information to keep them thinking, and not enough to leave them judging. It is essentially not anyone else's business what my decisions are......I have had to deal with questioning about natural birthing, home birthing, extended breastfeeding, family bed, no vaccines, homeschooling, now unschooling. If I felt the need to PROVE my point, or validate my choices, I would be exhausted. Channel the energy THAT takes into what you feel you are doing that IS right, IS good and IS life-affirming with your family. (your kids)
Will it really matter anyway in 10 years, this proving?? NO. But it absolutely DOES dillute your ability to BE present and to FEEL right about your choices, when you are in the defensive mode. Forget it. Of course we all want others to approve, to applaud, to agree, to share with us the wonderful things that happen precisely BECAUSE of our choices, but there will be only a few who will be there in this regard. It could be that they will only be found on lists like this! :)Remember the value of your siblings, uncles, moms, grandmothers etc........those relationships have never been about your children. Your relationships with these people were created before you had children, before you ever gave thought to the choices before you. It is a separate box, that when opened up can give you great joy. This may mean that you don't leave your kids with grandma, but that does not take away YOUR relationship with your mom. I have found that if I let all my relationships bleed into eachother, none would be the personal relationships that they are today. Sometimes it takes some juggling, and I have found it worth it to juggle--a great art I am learning to use for my benefit.
Kelley
http://sandandstardust.blogspot.com/
"Childhood is a journey, not a race."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>That's brilliant. :D
> relatives, changes, and why we can unschool
> ================
>
> I've been working this morning on a new section of the site:
>
> http://sandradodd.com/relatives
>
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-I allow the ebb and flow of flotsam and jetsum to wash away the
line, and leave them with only enough information to keep them
thinking, and not enough to leave them judging. It is essentially not
anyone else's business what my decisions are......I have had to deal
with questioning about natural birthing, home birthing, extended
breastfeeding, family bed, no vaccines, homeschooling, now
unschooling. If I felt the need to PROVE my point, or validate my
choices, I would be exhausted. Channel the energy THAT takes into
what you feel you are doing that IS right, IS good and IS life-
affirming with your family. (your kids) -=-
This I love. I especially like: "leave them with only enough
information to keep them thinking."
What as the quote a few years back, about "pass the [something]"?
This is a serious question. I have it vague and it doesn't seem to be
on my site, and it should be.
In this part, though, I see problems:
-=-Remember the value of your siblings, uncles, moms, grandmothers
etc........those relationships have never been about your children.
Your relationships with these people were created before you had
children, before you ever gave thought to the choices before you. It
is a separate box, that when opened up can give you great joy. -=-
My relationship with my husband was never about my children, either,
until we had children. If I compartmentalize my husband out of it,
it's a loss (eventually a loss of relationships).
My relationship with my mom was never about my children, but it was
about ME as a child. If I keep that separate from me as a mother,
she will continue to think of me as a child (ditto the other relatives).
My relationship with Kirby was never about Kirby's children. But in
a way it is. I often think that the way we've treated him will be
bound to affect the kind of parent he becomes. He'll be needing to
negotiate with the mother of his children, and so who he marries
would have an effect on him and his children. The way he parents
will affect how and whether I want to hang out with him in the
future. If he said he would be willing to hang out with me but the
way his children were being treated was none of my business, it
wouldn't be comfortable or relationship building.
It's not so easy a thing.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
line, and leave them with only enough information to keep them
thinking, and not enough to leave them judging. It is essentially not
anyone else's business what my decisions are......I have had to deal
with questioning about natural birthing, home birthing, extended
breastfeeding, family bed, no vaccines, homeschooling, now
unschooling. If I felt the need to PROVE my point, or validate my
choices, I would be exhausted. Channel the energy THAT takes into
what you feel you are doing that IS right, IS good and IS life-
affirming with your family. (your kids) -=-
This I love. I especially like: "leave them with only enough
information to keep them thinking."
What as the quote a few years back, about "pass the [something]"?
This is a serious question. I have it vague and it doesn't seem to be
on my site, and it should be.
In this part, though, I see problems:
-=-Remember the value of your siblings, uncles, moms, grandmothers
etc........those relationships have never been about your children.
Your relationships with these people were created before you had
children, before you ever gave thought to the choices before you. It
is a separate box, that when opened up can give you great joy. -=-
My relationship with my husband was never about my children, either,
until we had children. If I compartmentalize my husband out of it,
it's a loss (eventually a loss of relationships).
My relationship with my mom was never about my children, but it was
about ME as a child. If I keep that separate from me as a mother,
she will continue to think of me as a child (ditto the other relatives).
My relationship with Kirby was never about Kirby's children. But in
a way it is. I often think that the way we've treated him will be
bound to affect the kind of parent he becomes. He'll be needing to
negotiate with the mother of his children, and so who he marries
would have an effect on him and his children. The way he parents
will affect how and whether I want to hang out with him in the
future. If he said he would be willing to hang out with me but the
way his children were being treated was none of my business, it
wouldn't be comfortable or relationship building.
It's not so easy a thing.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvia Toyama
My relationship with Kirby was never about Kirby's children. But in
a way it is. I often think that the way we've treated him will be
bound to affect the kind of parent he becomes. He'll be needing to
negotiate with the mother of his children, and so who he marries
would have an effect on him and his children. The way he parents
will affect how and whether I want to hang out with him in the
future. If he said he would be willing to hang out with me but the
way his children were being treated was none of my business, it
wouldn't be comfortable or relationship building.
It's not so easy a thing.
Sandra
*****
And that's where it got hard for me and my Mom. She could not just be
quiet about how I treat my kids. I was too permissive, allowed them to
get away with too much, didn't demand enough respect or obedience from
them; I was failing them by not forcing them to do/eat things they
didn't enjoy. She told me (often) I was wrong not to give them chores,
after all being an adult should be my turn to make someone else do the
work -- it's how they'll learn to do that work. I tried to explain why
we do what we do, but she only heard that as criticism of how she had
raised me. I just plain got tired of hearing it, so I stopped having
her over to my house. I only saw her when I was alone, and at her
apt.
It may not feel fair to the Grandma, but how I parent isn't up for
debate. Yes, I'm happy to share what we do and why, but I will not sit
thru being repeatedly criticized -- in a tone that implies someday I'll
see she's right -- just to give her some time with me. I won't let her
be mean to my kids, in their own home, just because she's my mother.
I agree, it's not so easy a thing.
Sylvia
a way it is. I often think that the way we've treated him will be
bound to affect the kind of parent he becomes. He'll be needing to
negotiate with the mother of his children, and so who he marries
would have an effect on him and his children. The way he parents
will affect how and whether I want to hang out with him in the
future. If he said he would be willing to hang out with me but the
way his children were being treated was none of my business, it
wouldn't be comfortable or relationship building.
It's not so easy a thing.
Sandra
*****
And that's where it got hard for me and my Mom. She could not just be
quiet about how I treat my kids. I was too permissive, allowed them to
get away with too much, didn't demand enough respect or obedience from
them; I was failing them by not forcing them to do/eat things they
didn't enjoy. She told me (often) I was wrong not to give them chores,
after all being an adult should be my turn to make someone else do the
work -- it's how they'll learn to do that work. I tried to explain why
we do what we do, but she only heard that as criticism of how she had
raised me. I just plain got tired of hearing it, so I stopped having
her over to my house. I only saw her when I was alone, and at her
apt.
It may not feel fair to the Grandma, but how I parent isn't up for
debate. Yes, I'm happy to share what we do and why, but I will not sit
thru being repeatedly criticized -- in a tone that implies someday I'll
see she's right -- just to give her some time with me. I won't let her
be mean to my kids, in their own home, just because she's my mother.
I agree, it's not so easy a thing.
Sylvia
Sandra Dodd
-=-It may not feel fair to the Grandma, but how I parent isn't up for
debate. Yes, I'm happy to share what we do and why, but I will not sit
thru being repeatedly criticized -- in a tone that implies someday I'll
see she's right -- just to give her some time with me. -=-
I worry sometimes (have for years, on occasion) about how I'll act if
one of my kids has children in daycare, bottlefed just because the
mom doesn't want to nurse, in school early and often, scheduled naps
and bedtimes and not allowed to climb.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
debate. Yes, I'm happy to share what we do and why, but I will not sit
thru being repeatedly criticized -- in a tone that implies someday I'll
see she's right -- just to give her some time with me. -=-
I worry sometimes (have for years, on occasion) about how I'll act if
one of my kids has children in daycare, bottlefed just because the
mom doesn't want to nurse, in school early and often, scheduled naps
and bedtimes and not allowed to climb.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joylyn
Alexx and I have a joke--to rebel she'll have to either become a republican or not breastfeed.
Joylyn
---- Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
Joylyn
---- Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> -=-It may not feel fair to the Grandma, but how I parent isn't up for
> debate. Yes, I'm happy to share what we do and why, but I will not sit
> thru being repeatedly criticized -- in a tone that implies someday I'll
> see she's right -- just to give her some time with me. -=-
>
>
>
> I worry sometimes (have for years, on occasion) about how I'll act if
> one of my kids has children in daycare, bottlefed just because the
> mom doesn't want to nurse, in school early and often, scheduled naps
> and bedtimes and not allowed to climb.
>
>
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Barbara Perez
But seriously, those of you with older kids, please tell us, has there been
*any* rebelling of any kind? And if so, what did it look like? I keep
thinking how in our (mainstream) society the whole rebellious stage is an
assumed part of adolescence...I look back at my own adolescence and it seems
that I "rebelled by not rebelling", in other words I was the goody-two-shoes
kid that my parents didn't know what to make of. The biggest source of
disappointment for my mom I think was that I didn't like to go shopping and
didn't respond with any interest at her offer to buy me clothes, for example
(even if I picked them). I just wasn't interested. Now my daughter started
doing the same thing and I wonder if that's as "bad" as it'll get? Could it
be that the whole "rebellious is an intrinsic part of being a teen" in our
society is COMPLETELY unnecessary?
*any* rebelling of any kind? And if so, what did it look like? I keep
thinking how in our (mainstream) society the whole rebellious stage is an
assumed part of adolescence...I look back at my own adolescence and it seems
that I "rebelled by not rebelling", in other words I was the goody-two-shoes
kid that my parents didn't know what to make of. The biggest source of
disappointment for my mom I think was that I didn't like to go shopping and
didn't respond with any interest at her offer to buy me clothes, for example
(even if I picked them). I just wasn't interested. Now my daughter started
doing the same thing and I wonder if that's as "bad" as it'll get? Could it
be that the whole "rebellious is an intrinsic part of being a teen" in our
society is COMPLETELY unnecessary?
On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 1:30 PM, Joylyn <joylyn1@...> wrote:
> Alexx and I have a joke--to rebel she'll have to either become a
> republican or not breastfeed.
>
> Joylyn
>
> ---- Sandra Dodd <Sandra@... <Sandra%40SandraDodd.com>> wrote:
> > -=-It may not feel fair to the Grandma, but how I parent isn't up for
> > debate. Yes, I'm happy to share what we do and why, but I will not sit
> > thru being repeatedly criticized -- in a tone that implies someday I'll
> > see she's right -- just to give her some time with me. -=-
> >
> >
> >
> > I worry sometimes (have for years, on occasion) about how I'll act if
> > one of my kids has children in daycare, bottlefed just because the
> > mom doesn't want to nurse, in school early and often, scheduled naps
> > and bedtimes and not allowed to climb.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sandra
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-But seriously, those of you with older kids, please tell us, has
there been
*any* rebelling of any kind? -=-
When my kids were younger and I didn't know as much as I did later,
they balked at things I wanted them to do. I could have guaranteed
rebellion by finding what they didn't want to do and "requiring" it.
That was before they were teens, though.
What has worked with my kids, who moved from breastfeeding through
attachment parenting straight to unschooling might not be at all
applicable to any familes with more stress, with school, with coming
to unschooling later.
And what others might see at my house might look like what they would
call rebellion at their house, maybe. But that's probably because
they wouldn't want their kids doing the things my kids do. If the
parents are aware of what the kids are doing and trying to help them
explore the world safely, the kids will be doing things, with the
parents' knowledge and approval or acceptance, that other families
might not think they would EVER want to "allow" their kids to do.
What's discussed in advance and advised about can't be considered
rebellion.
It's not so easy a question and not so easy an answer. My easy
answer is that my kids have not rebelled because there wasn't much to
rebel about.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
there been
*any* rebelling of any kind? -=-
When my kids were younger and I didn't know as much as I did later,
they balked at things I wanted them to do. I could have guaranteed
rebellion by finding what they didn't want to do and "requiring" it.
That was before they were teens, though.
What has worked with my kids, who moved from breastfeeding through
attachment parenting straight to unschooling might not be at all
applicable to any familes with more stress, with school, with coming
to unschooling later.
And what others might see at my house might look like what they would
call rebellion at their house, maybe. But that's probably because
they wouldn't want their kids doing the things my kids do. If the
parents are aware of what the kids are doing and trying to help them
explore the world safely, the kids will be doing things, with the
parents' knowledge and approval or acceptance, that other families
might not think they would EVER want to "allow" their kids to do.
What's discussed in advance and advised about can't be considered
rebellion.
It's not so easy a question and not so easy an answer. My easy
answer is that my kids have not rebelled because there wasn't much to
rebel about.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanna Murphy
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
I could have guaranteed
> rebellion by finding what they didn't want to do and "requiring" it.
Or maybe by finding what they did want to do and "requiring" it!
Joanna
Ren Allen
~~
But seriously, those of you with older kids, please tell us, has there
been *any* rebelling of any kind?~~
Nope.
My teens as of today are 14 and 18. I'm not sure what rebellion would
look like in our home though....since we're not bent on controlling
their choices. What is there to rebel against? If there's nothing to
rebel against then it's pretty hard to do.:)
That doesn't mean they don't have rough moments or try things most
parents might freak out about. Not freaking out has made me a safe
haven for some pretty serious conversations....and being kept informed
about difficult choices and sex and cigarettes and all sorts of things
*I* would have hidden. They're level headed and amaze me constantly
with their insights.
I don't quite know how the rebellion thing would even work around here. ;)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
But seriously, those of you with older kids, please tell us, has there
been *any* rebelling of any kind?~~
Nope.
My teens as of today are 14 and 18. I'm not sure what rebellion would
look like in our home though....since we're not bent on controlling
their choices. What is there to rebel against? If there's nothing to
rebel against then it's pretty hard to do.:)
That doesn't mean they don't have rough moments or try things most
parents might freak out about. Not freaking out has made me a safe
haven for some pretty serious conversations....and being kept informed
about difficult choices and sex and cigarettes and all sorts of things
*I* would have hidden. They're level headed and amaze me constantly
with their insights.
I don't quite know how the rebellion thing would even work around here. ;)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Pamela Sorooshian
On Apr 6, 2008, at 1:52 PM, Barbara Perez wrote:
No rebelling here at all.
I just asked my 17 yo if she ever feels like rebelling?
"I don't have anything to rebel against," she says.
With three daughters, we have had some pretty intense PMS days, though!
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> But seriously, those of you with older kids, please tell us, hasMine are 17, 20, and 23.
> there been
> *any* rebelling of any kind? And if so, what did it look like? I keep
> thinking how in our (mainstream) society the whole rebellious stage
> is an
> assumed part of adolescence.
No rebelling here at all.
I just asked my 17 yo if she ever feels like rebelling?
"I don't have anything to rebel against," she says.
With three daughters, we have had some pretty intense PMS days, though!
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Libby Paulin
My parents have had to cope with some 'off the beaten track' decisions by us. We have done the co-sleeping thing (you'll squash him) the longer term breast feeding thing (He's not still nursing!! He's 3 years old!!) and then we did the sell the house and move into a bus thing. Í was terrified in the lead up to telling them about this one. I was prepared for major disapproval and was dumbfounded to receive a supportive and non-interfering response. Basically they said that it wasn't what they would choose to do but if it's what we choose to do then that was OK with them. I think my Dad has had a bit of a chat with my Mum regarding the role of grandparents (i.e. don't interfere, it's their life) because it truly was not the reaction I was anticipating. The most recent change has been about homeschooling I sent my parents an email (as we live in bus and have very expensive mobile phone rates here in New Zealand) telling them that we were continuing to homeschool even though we have settled somewhere for a year or two and have schools available close by. A few weeks later the boys and I went to visit. Not a word of censure. Not a word at all about what we are doing. Bliss. Luckily we are not the first in the family to be homeschooling, although how we homeschool is rather different from my brother and his family!! (I haven't discussed the how of it with my parents, i.e. unschooling. I think it would be too much too soon. I'm not going to shy away from talking about unschooling, however, I shall pick my moments - I'll look for what I used to call 'teachable moments' Dunno what to call them now!! Learnable moments??).
:) Libby
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
:) Libby
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Paula Sjogerman
On Apr 6, 2008, at 3:52 PM, Barbara Perez wrote:
humans from their parents. To see themselves as their "own" selves.
That's not the same thing at all as rebelling.
Of course, if your parents piss you off, you might want to do the
same thing to them <gg>.
Paula, mother of two teens, no rebelling.
> Could itI think of it instead as: kids need to differentiate themselves as
> be that the whole "rebellious is an intrinsic part of being a teen"
> in our
> society is COMPLETELY unnecessary?
humans from their parents. To see themselves as their "own" selves.
That's not the same thing at all as rebelling.
Of course, if your parents piss you off, you might want to do the
same thing to them <gg>.
Paula, mother of two teens, no rebelling.
Sandra Dodd
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
I could have guaranteed
> rebellion by finding what they didn't want to do and "requiring" it.
Or maybe by finding what they did want to do and "requiring" it!
Joanna
====================
Good point. It's the requirements and rules and schedules and all
that create an inflexible situation against which a child can rebel.
I'm afraid of people misunderstanding this though and thinking we
have found a way to placate children so that they will want to do
exactly whatever the parents envision. That is NOT what our lack of
rebellion is like. I'm trying to help Holly do whatever SHE
envisions. That's such a different point of view that we can't even
really discuss "rebellion" sensibly here. I'm concerned about how
the message might be being interpreted.
My kids are sensible and rational and thoughtful in ways that aren't
even in the same ballpark with what I see in other families around us
here. It's not even the same sport. It's a whole different thing.
A family that wants the end result of what the people here are
talking about can't take short cuts or compromise. You don't get all
the way by only going part of the way.
And now I'm afraid that *that* could be misinterpreted...
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joylyn
To be honest, our only real issue, and Alexx just turned 13, is housework. I hate it, she hates it, we don't like to do it, and it doesn't get done.
Sometimes it pisses me off because I'm working all day out of the house to make sure she can stay at home and unschool, and I think she should be willing and wanting to help out by doing some small chores.
Other times, I realize I don't want her to remember how her life as an unschooler involved fights with mom about housework and housework itself.
It's a constant battle, in my own head, to find the balance. I wish I could afford someone to come in and do the housework once a week.
But no, there is no rebellion. She wants a piercing. In her lip. I'm OK with it, we'll do some research and get it done right, and I'm OK with it. I've asked her to wait until the divorce is final, it's a reasonable request... Her clothing choices are interesting... lots of skulls and black and red, and arm warmers, from a store called Hot Topic, it's kinda cute.
I don't make any rules for her to defy. We discuss things, such as how to keep her safe on line, and she and I have, I guess you could say, come up with guidelines. But it's really her and I talking about it, and Alexx using her brain to tell me how she will stay safe (not giving out personal information, mostly). She doesn't have to rebel, we can talk about it and come to a conclusion. For instance, with laundry today she didn't want to help so she asked if I'd stay down at the laundry mat, and she'd help me take it down there, and then come help me fold it. It's kinda like we are partners. She respects my experience, I respect her insight, her wisdom.
She makes really good decisions and choices. I don't think she will "rebel." I needed to, as a teen. I was controlled and restricted and ruled to tears. I had to follow rules at school and at home and everywhere. I rarely got to decide when I woke up, or when I went to sleep, what I wore, what I learned, etc. etc. I was controlled 90% of the time. My teen has control over her life, and she makes her own decisions, with my assistance, and me to help when she needs it. I don't understand why she would need to rebel?
Joylyn
---- Barbara Perez <barbara.perez@...> wrote:
Sometimes it pisses me off because I'm working all day out of the house to make sure she can stay at home and unschool, and I think she should be willing and wanting to help out by doing some small chores.
Other times, I realize I don't want her to remember how her life as an unschooler involved fights with mom about housework and housework itself.
It's a constant battle, in my own head, to find the balance. I wish I could afford someone to come in and do the housework once a week.
But no, there is no rebellion. She wants a piercing. In her lip. I'm OK with it, we'll do some research and get it done right, and I'm OK with it. I've asked her to wait until the divorce is final, it's a reasonable request... Her clothing choices are interesting... lots of skulls and black and red, and arm warmers, from a store called Hot Topic, it's kinda cute.
I don't make any rules for her to defy. We discuss things, such as how to keep her safe on line, and she and I have, I guess you could say, come up with guidelines. But it's really her and I talking about it, and Alexx using her brain to tell me how she will stay safe (not giving out personal information, mostly). She doesn't have to rebel, we can talk about it and come to a conclusion. For instance, with laundry today she didn't want to help so she asked if I'd stay down at the laundry mat, and she'd help me take it down there, and then come help me fold it. It's kinda like we are partners. She respects my experience, I respect her insight, her wisdom.
She makes really good decisions and choices. I don't think she will "rebel." I needed to, as a teen. I was controlled and restricted and ruled to tears. I had to follow rules at school and at home and everywhere. I rarely got to decide when I woke up, or when I went to sleep, what I wore, what I learned, etc. etc. I was controlled 90% of the time. My teen has control over her life, and she makes her own decisions, with my assistance, and me to help when she needs it. I don't understand why she would need to rebel?
Joylyn
---- Barbara Perez <barbara.perez@...> wrote:
> But seriously, those of you with older kids, please tell us, has there been
> *any* rebelling of any kind? And if so, what did it look like? I keep
> thinking how in our (mainstream) society the whole rebellious stage is an
> assumed part of adolescence...I look back at my own adolescence and it seems
> that I "rebelled by not rebelling", in other words I was the goody-two-shoes
> kid that my parents didn't know what to make of. The biggest source of
> disappointment for my mom I think was that I didn't like to go shopping and
> didn't respond with any interest at her offer to buy me clothes, for example
> (even if I picked them). I just wasn't interested. Now my daughter started
> doing the same thing and I wonder if that's as "bad" as it'll get? Could it
> be that the whole "rebellious is an intrinsic part of being a teen" in our
> society is COMPLETELY unnecessary?
>
> On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 1:30 PM, Joylyn <joylyn1@...> wrote:
>
> > Alexx and I have a joke--to rebel she'll have to either become a
> > republican or not breastfeed.
> >
> > Joylyn
> >
> > ---- Sandra Dodd <Sandra@... <Sandra%40SandraDodd.com>> wrote:
> > > -=-It may not feel fair to the Grandma, but how I parent isn't up for
> > > debate. Yes, I'm happy to share what we do and why, but I will not sit
> > > thru being repeatedly criticized -- in a tone that implies someday I'll
> > > see she's right -- just to give her some time with me. -=-
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I worry sometimes (have for years, on occasion) about how I'll act if
> > > one of my kids has children in daycare, bottlefed just because the
> > > mom doesn't want to nurse, in school early and often, scheduled naps
> > > and bedtimes and not allowed to climb.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sandra
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Joylyn
I think Calvin and Hobbs said something similar to that...
Wait, here is one...
Mark Twain: Play Quotes
Work consists of whatever a body is obliged to do. Play consists of whatever a body is not obliged to do.
I can't find the Calvin and Hobbs one but I have it at school...
Joylyn
---- Joanna Murphy <ridingmom@...> wrote:
Wait, here is one...
Mark Twain: Play Quotes
Work consists of whatever a body is obliged to do. Play consists of whatever a body is not obliged to do.
I can't find the Calvin and Hobbs one but I have it at school...
Joylyn
---- Joanna Murphy <ridingmom@...> wrote:
> --- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> I could have guaranteed
> > rebellion by finding what they didn't want to do and "requiring" it.
>
> Or maybe by finding what they did want to do and "requiring" it!
>
> Joanna
>
Pamela Sorooshian
On Apr 6, 2008, at 10:04 PM, Joylyn wrote:
unschool. You're working so you HAVE a home she can stay home in,
that's true, but whether she went to school or not, you'd be working,
right?
Just saying - you might help yourself not feel so resentful if you're
careful about how you're thinking about it.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>But this isn't true - you're not working so that she can stay home and
> Sometimes it pisses me off because I'm working all day out of the
> house to make sure she can stay at home and unschool, and I think
> she should be willing and wanting to help out by doing some small
> chores.
unschool. You're working so you HAVE a home she can stay home in,
that's true, but whether she went to school or not, you'd be working,
right?
Just saying - you might help yourself not feel so resentful if you're
careful about how you're thinking about it.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvia Toyama
I worry sometimes (have for years, on occasion) about how I'll act if
one of my kids has children in daycare, bottlefed just because the
mom doesn't want to nurse, in school early and often, scheduled naps
and bedtimes and not allowed to climb.
****
Oh, I have the same fears. I hope my sons' childhood is full and joyous
enough that they find a partner who will unschool, and breastfeed, and
all the things I've chosen as a Mom. I really don't see my boys
choosing someone who doesn't agree on at least most of how we live. I
just can't see them agreeing to have their kids raised on bottles, in
daycare and with chores for anyone.
If it doesn't turn out that way, tho, I will find a way to be gracious
and supportive, and respectful.
Sylvia
one of my kids has children in daycare, bottlefed just because the
mom doesn't want to nurse, in school early and often, scheduled naps
and bedtimes and not allowed to climb.
****
Oh, I have the same fears. I hope my sons' childhood is full and joyous
enough that they find a partner who will unschool, and breastfeed, and
all the things I've chosen as a Mom. I really don't see my boys
choosing someone who doesn't agree on at least most of how we live. I
just can't see them agreeing to have their kids raised on bottles, in
daycare and with chores for anyone.
If it doesn't turn out that way, tho, I will find a way to be gracious
and supportive, and respectful.
Sylvia
Nancy Wooton
On Apr 6, 2008, at 10:09 PM, Joylyn wrote:
That was our school motto <g>
Nancy
> I think Calvin and Hobbs said something similar to that..."If nobody makes you do it, it counts as fun."
>
> Wait, here is one...
>
> Mark Twain: Play Quotes
> Work consists of whatever a body is obliged to do. Play consists of
> whatever a body is not obliged to do.
>
> I can't find the Calvin and Hobbs one but I have it at school...
That was our school motto <g>
Nancy
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], "Barbara Perez"
<barbara.perez@...> wrote:
the belief that teenage rebellion is a 'normal' feature of growing up
and hear other parents talking as if it's unavoidable, but that's
total crap. My now 22 year old daughter's teenage years were a joy.
Tell that to most parents though and they think you're being sarcastic. :)
Bob
<barbara.perez@...> wrote:
>there been
> But seriously, those of you with older kids, please tell us, has
> *any* rebelling of any kind? And if so, what did it look like? I keepis an
> thinking how in our (mainstream) society the whole rebellious stage
> assumed part of adolescence...So it seems. I often receive emails and read articles online promoting
the belief that teenage rebellion is a 'normal' feature of growing up
and hear other parents talking as if it's unavoidable, but that's
total crap. My now 22 year old daughter's teenage years were a joy.
Tell that to most parents though and they think you're being sarcastic. :)
Bob