Emily Troper

I'm new here, so I apologize if this has been discussed before, but
I'm wondering if anyone here has read Hold On To Your Kids and what
you thought of it?
I recently sponsored a talk by Dr. Neufeld here in Portland, and in
MY mind it goes well with RU and with respectful non-coercive
parenting (and the parts that don't, i just ignore :)), but others in
my community had a hard time understanding how his philosophy could
be non-coercive when he talked about things like "natural authority",
etc.
To me, it's like the modern version of The Continuum Concept - as the
parent/tribe leader you have unconditional positive regard and
"expectations" and yet are completely non-punitive and loving and
available. I think that unschooled kids are generally more family/
parent oriented to begin with, so there is no need to set limits
around peer over-interaction like I might feel the desire to if my
kids were in school. Neufeld's book is written within the context of
the mainstream Western world (though it questions mainstream
parenting) but I think that by reading the book it would be very
difficult to interpret adult-oriented as meaning a parent controls or
coerces the child. His point is that through love and attachment the
child naturally wants to follow the parent - it cannot be forced. I
love his assertation that we are stressed about parenting because we
think we are responsible for raising our children but in fact nature
has that role and will do so all by itself if we just fulfill our
children's needs for being dependent on us. What do you think?

Emily

in Portland, Oregon
with dh Michael
ds Morgan (12/91)
ds Seth (8/99)
dd Sara Kate (7/01)
and ds Jacob (12/04)






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Pamela Sorooshian

I saw him speak - there were lots of things I liked about what he said
and a few I didn't.

But, I honestly sort of begrudge him his "expert" role. He's selling a
lot of stuff - DVD parenting programs that cost a small fortune. I
think people can get more from this list - we're more personal, more
direct, and more variety of real experience is available here.

But, people do like to rely on experts - he has a PhD in clinical
psychology and "30 years experience" and that seems to give him
credibility.


On Mar 25, 2008, at 4:41 PM, Emily Troper wrote:
> if we just fulfill our
> children's needs for being dependent on us. What do you think?

"Just?" Yeah- well - no. I don't agree at all.

There are horribly abusive parents whose children are "dependent" on
them.

Children also have needs for autonomy that are important to support.

Simple statements don't do justice to all that Neufeld really has to
say, of course. But, as far as that statement goes, I don't like it at
all.


-pam



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Sandra Dodd

-=-"Just?" Yeah- well - no. I don't agree at all.

There are horribly abusive parents whose children are "dependent" on
them.-=-



I agree with Pam. It's not at all clear or simple, but every day we
help people learn to untangle the threads of their lives, to see
clearly why and how to decide what they decide.

We have a friend who's nearly twenty four and VERY dependent on his
parents. They have always made his decisions, since he was born, and
they divorced when he was six, so they've used him as a pawn. When
does he start getting his own life? Maybe soon, but basically
they're supporting him because they've forced him (as well as they
can) to be in graduate school. This is not a healthy family (hasn't
been a family for a long time) and not a healthy relationship, no
dyad in it.

Another way to be unhealthy is to claim one's family is totally
democratic, equals, all have an equal voice, etc. That doesn't make
any sense either. Those who know the most and can do the most need
to DO IT! More like communism, maybe. Socialism. <bwg> Those who
have the ability to maintain cars and mow lawns and mend clothing
really ought to do it cheerfully for the group, for the team! And
those whose abilities are just growing will WANT to do what looks
fun, and they will desire to be like the parents, if the parents keep
themselves interesting and kind and supportive.

I could say more, and probably will, but I'm trying to do lots of
things at once.

Sandra

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Jennifer Varela

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 8:36 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

> >>>Another way to be unhealthy is to claim one's family is totally
> democratic, equals, all have an equal voice, etc. That doesn't make
> any sense either. Those who know the most and can do the most need
> to DO IT! More like communism, maybe. Socialism. <bwg> <<<


This is so timely for me. I know a lot of families believe that Consensual
living combines nicely with Unschooling and I think in a lot of ways it
does. However, I don't think parents and children are on a level playing
field because adults have the ability to do more than the children. I don't
know if it was something that only *I* noticed, but, it seemed to me that
some parents were using the Consensual living creed that "everyone's opinion
matters and everyone's equal" as an excuse to put limitations on their
children. I've noticed the TV, computer and food limitations being
mentioned as something that "mom wants" and so that gets equal value as the
child that wants to watch TV or eat chocolate. So as a compromise the child
would get limited TV or a certain amount of the food they wanted. It felt
really yucky to me to read. I actually went no mail on the list because I
felt reading that would be detrimental to me learning more
about Unschooling.

>> Those who
have the ability to maintain cars and mow lawns and mend clothing
really ought to do it cheerfully for the group, for the team! And
those whose abilities are just growing will WANT to do what looks
fun, and they will desire to be like the parents, if the parents keep
themselves interesting and kind and supportive.<<

Oh, I love this. Makes me wanna jump up and wash the dishes or something.
I should print it out!

Jen


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Joanna Murphy

I've really enjoyed what he has to say, and here's what I got from his talk in our area last
month:

I think that he is acknowledging that the relationship is natural that children depend on their
parents, and that that precious relationship must be carefully and respectfully maintained in
a connected and positive way--not exploited by an abusive or dysfunctional parent. A
parent (or other adult as the case may be) that is in that position must tread very carefully
and sensitively because they are in a unique position to have even more power to wound than
anyone else. That loving bond is what protects children and allows for confident exploring of
their world as they grow and strengthen their sense of self.

I thought what he had to say was not at odds and blended very well with what people have to
say on this list.

Joanna