organicsis

Z is 8 and we've been unschooling for over a year now. When he was in school, he was very negatively affected. It took us too long to pull our heads out of the sand and stop listening to the school about what the issue was. He was a little over 7 then but he was seriously depressed. He hated life, himself and everyone around him. We barely have any pics of him smiling. It breaks my heart that we were so naive for so long in helping him.

He's come a long way in over a year, but it's still a struggle. I battled bi-polar disorder for years before getting it under control (mostly) with vitamins, diet and *choice*. Choosing to be happy was a big one for me - choosing to surround myself with things that make me happy, choosing to focus on happy things instead of the negative, choosing to keep myself healthy, and sometimes just plain old choosing to have a happy day. I try to keep positive affirmations around, saying little phrases to help him learn to choose happiness now. I've talked to him about different ideas on how different people handle the subject - prayer, meditation, Law of Attraction. I've been modeling these things to him in my actions. (I don't mention the word "depression" or "pessimism" because I don't want him locked into a label.) But many days he is still stuck in this unhappy rut.

Usually it starts when he's tired (a whole 'nother topic - I'll post that one too) or when things aren't happening the way he would prefer. He says things like "My life is horrible", "I'm going to have another bad day today!" "Everyone hates me." "Nothing good ever happens." "I hate myself/I'm stupid/etc". He's even gone so far as to say he wishes he would die or he wants to kill himself. An 8 year old!

When I try to talk to him about what I do to, he doesn't want to hear it. If I dare mention that being happy is a choice, that you can choose to look at the good things or the bad things, etc he tells me that he can't choose to be happy because life sucks too much. I"m trying not to become frustrated because I know that where he is at, that will only feel like abandonment. But I'm at my wit's end. I thought that this was mostly residual stuff from a crappy school experience (life really did suck back then) but after over a year and no school in sight, I'm beginning to think it's more than that and I'm wondering if I should take him to a naturopath/homepath. This isn't something we dealt with before school, so I don't think it's only personality (how some people tend to see the glass half empty). But I don't know if it's habit or if it's more serious thn that either.

Any suggestions or ideas?


Tara
Our Unschooling Blog:
http://heartschooling.blogspot.com
Worried about the environment?
http://SustainableSundays.blogspot.com
Worried about the economy?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0EZeNulOz9E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnijgIbm1qc


____________________________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Any suggestions or ideas?-=-

Stop talking to him about it. Just create a cheery, comfortable
environment. Smile at him without crowding him. Thank him without
being too mushy, if he does something. Point out the nice things.

Maybe model the moments-not-days thing by saying, if something goes
wrong, "Well this was a bad moment but it doesn't ruin the day."

Can you get him out of the house? Not to relatives, but to another
town for something? An overnight trip with you or his dad, where
everything's so new and stimulating that he's thinking new thoughts?
Touristy this-or-that a few towns away, maybe?

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joanna Murphy

I know that you're trying to help him by telling him some of the things that work for you,
but at 8 he may not have that separate voice that he'll develop later that would enable him
to "talk himself into a happy day." He will feel immersed in the emotion he's in, and the
rest might feel really frustrating to him because it doesn't make sense. He's literally not
self-conscious enough yet for that, developmentally speaking. Most of the energetic
practices don't recommend that you teach a child the practices--they are usually way
ahead of us in the ability to live in the moment and shift their energy. My daughter is the
best wisher I know. Even NVC recommends just modeling.

So creating a cheery environment, maybe approaching it through some fun playing that
you invite him into if he's interested--some roughhousing always raises the mood around
here. An impromptu game of hide and seek or chase or something else physical might
help to engage him. I also liked the idea of a trip to someplace fun to give him new
thoughts. Maybe finding an indoor swimming facility and playing in the pool. There are
some private health clubs with indoor pools that allow for one day use.

I've never really tried the homeopathic route, but I have a friend that has had great success
with using them for herself and her daughter for both physical ailments and emotional
blocks. I would be careful to ask him if he'd like to try it and how you approach it with
him--maybe focusing on helping to create shifts rather than "fixing a problem." Unless he
genuinely feels like he has a problem--then it might help him have hope to know that
you guys are addressing it and looking for answers. It sounds like maybe your son is
reflecting that part of you that is still a little stuck--so maybe focusing on yourself will be
what it takes to help him "see" how a person creates happiness. And if you aren't feeling
genuine happiness, all the explaining in the world won't help him to.

Joanna

Kim Musolff

Hi Tara! We're having the exact same problem with our 6 year old. We just
pulled him out of kindergarten, after 7 months (we waited too long, too!)
He was a pleasant, happy little boy until school. And I am convinced that
is what started his negative behavior. We unschooled during the preschool
years (I didn't know it was called unschooling then--it's just what we did!)
Once school started, I think he became really bored. He began saying very
similar things to your son's. It's pretty scary, hearing that come out of a
child!
Anyway, I don't really have any answers for you, being that we are in the
same boat. The only thing I have noticed is that when N's mind is
stimulated, he seems happier. So we've been going nuts trying to give him
opportunities to use his mind (space books from the library, science kits,
art supplies, etc.) I don't know if this is just a short-lived solution or
if his attitude is actually improving, since we just pulled him out of
school.

Anyway, I am very curious to see what others have to say on this topic. If
you'd like to email me off the group, feel free--I'm sure we'd have lots to
talk about!
Kim

On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 9:16 AM, organicsis <organicsis@...> wrote:

> Z is 8 and we've been unschooling for over a year now. When he was in
> school, he was very negatively affected. It took us too long to pull our
> heads out of the sand and stop listening to the school about what the issue
> was. He was a little over 7 then but he was seriously depressed. He hated
> life, himself and everyone around him. We barely have any pics of him
> smiling. It breaks my heart that we were so naive for so long in helping
> him.
>
> He's come a long way in over a year, but it's still a struggle. I battled
> bi-polar disorder for years before getting it under control (mostly) with
> vitamins, diet and *choice*. Choosing to be happy was a big one for me -
> choosing to surround myself with things that make me happy, choosing to
> focus on happy things instead of the negative, choosing to keep myself
> healthy, and sometimes just plain old choosing to have a happy day. I try to
> keep positive affirmations around, saying little phrases to help him learn
> to choose happiness now. I've talked to him about different ideas on how
> different people handle the subject - prayer, meditation, Law of Attraction.
> I've been modeling these things to him in my actions. (I don't mention the
> word "depression" or "pessimism" because I don't want him locked into a
> label.) But many days he is still stuck in this unhappy rut.
>
> Usually it starts when he's tired (a whole 'nother topic - I'll post that
> one too) or when things aren't happening the way he would prefer. He says
> things like "My life is horrible", "I'm going to have another bad day
> today!" "Everyone hates me." "Nothing good ever happens." "I hate myself/I'm
> stupid/etc". He's even gone so far as to say he wishes he would die or he
> wants to kill himself. An 8 year old!
>
> When I try to talk to him about what I do to, he doesn't want to hear it.
> If I dare mention that being happy is a choice, that you can choose to look
> at the good things or the bad things, etc he tells me that he can't choose
> to be happy because life sucks too much. I"m trying not to become frustrated
> because I know that where he is at, that will only feel like abandonment.
> But I'm at my wit's end. I thought that this was mostly residual stuff from
> a crappy school experience (life really did suck back then) but after over a
> year and no school in sight, I'm beginning to think it's more than that and
> I'm wondering if I should take him to a naturopath/homepath. This isn't
> something we dealt with before school, so I don't think it's only
> personality (how some people tend to see the glass half empty). But I don't
> know if it's habit or if it's more serious thn that either.
>
> Any suggestions or ideas?
>
>
> Tara
> Our Unschooling Blog:
> http://heartschooling.blogspot.com
> Worried about the environment?
> http://SustainableSundays.blogspot.com
> Worried about the economy?
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=0EZeNulOz9E
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnijgIbm1qc
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-The only thing I have noticed is that when N's mind is
stimulated, he seems happier. So we've been going nuts trying to give
him
opportunities to use his mind (space books from the library, science
kits,
art supplies, etc.) I don't know if this is just a short-lived
solution or
if his attitude is actually improving, since we just pulled him out of
school.-=-



Your range of opportunities seems fairly schoolish. Here are some
other ideas:

http://sandradodd.com/checklists

http://sandradodd.com/museum

http://sandradodd.com/deschooling

http://sandradodd.com/movies

http://sandradodd.com/music

http://sandradodd.com/art

http://sandradodd.com/strewing



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shannon Foust

"some roughhousing always raises the mood around
here. An impromptu game of hide and seek or chase or something else physical might
help to engage him. "

That's great -- I forgot about how much physically moving helps that brain!! Shannon


Shannon
www.myspace.com/soldout641
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1040601130
www.homeschoolblogger.com/soldout841






---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny C

> When I try to talk to him about what I do to, he doesn't want to hear
>it. If I dare mention that being happy is a choice, that you can
>choose to look at the good things or the bad things, etc he tells me
>that he can't choose to be happy because life sucks too much.

I wouldn't try to talk to him about it. I wouldn't get into that
discussion with him. Those kinds of discussions are never a win/win
when one person for whatever reason wants validation in losing.

One of the single best things that I've done with this type of thing
with my kids, is to put on a very funny movie. One that makes us laugh
and laugh and laugh. Laughter in and of itself creates endorphins that
help people feel happier. It also allows for later conversations when
someone goes to that sad space again. Simply reminding someone of
something that was really funny, or retelling that joke, or visual
image, can turn someone around in their thought process directional
heading. Sort of a mental jump start of "don't go there".

Jenny C

>
> Your range of opportunities seems fairly schoolish.

I was thinking that too. I've always liked the idea of shaking things
up a little. This applies to the general thread too. Go to a
different store to buy groceries, go all the way across town to do it,
or another town if you live in a really really small one.

Stop along the way if something seems interesting. Take the back
roads, and stay off the freeway. You will find interesting houses,
yards, parks, views, and you can listen to music longer, or books on
tape/cd or play car games, or plain old talk. You can get lost a
little and try to find your way back to somewhere familiar and ask your
kids for help with which direction to turn.

We have really enjoyed this aspect of life at our house. The idea of
expanding our choices in small ways. But even small ways are hugely
mind expanding.

Melissa Dietrick

Hi
its so hard to see a child, our child, sad, depressed, angry...

but really, what a child needs is to be accepted just as he is, where he is. If he is in a rut
and complaining, I would be right there, trying to pull out his thoughts into words...if he
wishes it.
I know that I love to have someone listen to a rant of mine...with no lectures attached, i
mean! then after wards, I might be ready to really listen to advice. But for an eight year
old in the throes of it, what he may need is just some new movement to life... as jenny and
sandra suggest...shake things up a bit in a "sparkly" way (love that expression, sandra)...

another thing that I do, that echoes sandra again, is really give alot of eyecontact with
smiles, to my children. If they are in a negative place, they really seem to resist at first
that eyecontact, but I will do it any way, in a playful way--like as we pass each other, I will
bonk foreheads with my older children, looking in their eyes, smiling (laughing too)...We
do alot of head bonking here...we must have learned that one from our goats, lol.

It may sound strange to you, but over the past few years, Ive really noticed how much my
kids thrive on that seemingly little thing called eyecontact. The more I do it, the better we
feel together.

just a thought,
melissa
in italy
mamma of 7
20years thru 2.

one girl done wiith school, three kids in school, one unschooling and 2 tagging along for
the unschooling ride.

Tara

> -=-Any suggestions or ideas?-=-
>
> Stop talking to him about it. Just create a cheery, comfortable
> environment. Smile at him without crowding him. Thank him
without
> being too mushy, if he does something. Point out the nice things.
>

I usually try to not talk about it. But often times he's directing
comments at me or even forming them as questions. I'm afraid that if
I disengage it may make his feelings stronger or reaffirm that things
are as negative as he sees them. I know when I battled with very
severe depression, I needed someone to liten to me and felt worse
when people got tired of it or disengaged. I don't want to amplify
his feelings. Should I not talk about it when he's feeling good
though too?


> Maybe model the moments-not-days thing by saying, if something
goes
> wrong, "Well this was a bad moment but it doesn't ruin the day."

Yeah that's a good point. I do say these things but usually in
reponse to something negative he said (like "this whole day is ruined
and horrible"). I think I need to start making it a point to do this
with my own bad moments more so he can see I'm not just preaching it
but that I actually do it and it works for me.


>
> Can you get him out of the house? Not to relatives, but to
another
> town for something? An overnight trip with you or his dad, where
> everything's so new and stimulating that he's thinking new
thoughts?
> Touristy this-or-that a few towns away, maybe?
>

These things do help a lot when I can get him out of the house. He's
really into Xbox Live at the moment so he often doesn't want to go
anywhere. But maybe I just need to be more adament about this. How do
I do so if he really doesn't want to go?

I'm also afraid to make his happiness dependent on "fun stuff" or
just "stuff" in general. Is he too young for me to worry about that?

~ Tara

Tara

> I know that you're trying to help him by telling him some of the
things that work for you,
> but at 8 he may not have that separate voice that he'll develop
later that would enable him
> to "talk himself into a happy day." He will feel immersed in the
emotion he's in, and the
> rest might feel really frustrating to him because it doesn't make
sense. He's literally not
> self-conscious enough yet for that, developmentally speaking. Most
of the energetic
> practices don't recommend that you teach a child the practices--
they are usually way
> ahead of us in the ability to live in the moment and shift their
energy. My daughter is the
> best wisher I know. Even NVC recommends just modeling.
>

Really good points. Some things he does get, like a boomerang analogy
to explain law of attraction and treating people kindly. I think the
problem is he's just started wrapping his mind around some pretty big
concepts (life/death/spirituality/humanity) but he still can't quite
understand it all either. So I'm wanting to explain it to him but I
think you're right. Most of it is just too big for him. He's often
wiser than his years so I think I sometimes forget that doesn't mean
he wil always get everything.


>It sounds like maybe your son is
> reflecting that part of you that is still a little stuck--so maybe
focusing on yourself will be
> what it takes to help him "see" how a person creates happiness.
And if you aren't feeling
> genuine happiness, all the explaining in the world won't help him
to.
>

This is true. I see things in him that I use to struggle with or even
things his bio dad still struggles with and it worries me. With a non-
so-happy mental health history on both sides of the family (mine and
his bio-dads going back a couple of generations - DH is "Dad" but not
father), it worries me. I really am afraid of him dealing with the
same stuff his bio dad deals with or making some of those same
choices. Bio dad never got his 'stuff' under control, still struggles
with mental health issues, a very addictive personality, etc to such
a point that he hasn't been in Z's life for 6.5 years. So this kind
of stuff is scary for me to see in him.

Some of it does also reflect some of my residual struggles and I have
been fighting very hard to overcome them as well. It's a very hard
struggle to deal with my own issues while managing an unhappy child.
I mean, do I make him secondary...kinda like the air masks in the
airplane? Take care of my mask before I can take care of his? I feel
like that kinda leaves him high and dry when I can't be there for him.

~ Tara

Amy

If you got a membership to the YMCA (or some such place) would he go
with you? Maybe if he could take a friend? My dd(5) and I met a
friend there the other day and had so much fun we are getting a
membership. We are happy and tired by the time we leave. I always
make sure we can spend a good long time there and we go late
afternoon or evening. I also take food so we can have something to
eat right away and because she might fall asleep in the car.
I have struggled with depression, and the excersise seems to do
wonders for me (though I never believed anyone who told me that it
would)!

Amy



--- In [email protected], "Tara" <organicsis@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I know that you're trying to help him by telling him some of the
> things that work for you,
> > but at 8 he may not have that separate voice that he'll develop
> later that would enable him
> > to "talk himself into a happy day." He will feel immersed in the
> emotion he's in, and the
> > rest might feel really frustrating to him because it doesn't make
> sense. He's literally not
> > self-conscious enough yet for that, developmentally speaking.
Most
> of the energetic
> > practices don't recommend that you teach a child the practices--
> they are usually way
> > ahead of us in the ability to live in the moment and shift their
> energy. My daughter is the
> > best wisher I know. Even NVC recommends just modeling.
> >
>
> Really good points. Some things he does get, like a boomerang
analogy
> to explain law of attraction and treating people kindly. I think
the
> problem is he's just started wrapping his mind around some pretty
big
> concepts (life/death/spirituality/humanity) but he still can't
quite
> understand it all either. So I'm wanting to explain it to him but I
> think you're right. Most of it is just too big for him. He's often
> wiser than his years so I think I sometimes forget that doesn't
mean
> he wil always get everything.
>
>
> >It sounds like maybe your son is
> > reflecting that part of you that is still a little stuck--so
maybe
> focusing on yourself will be
> > what it takes to help him "see" how a person creates happiness.
> And if you aren't feeling
> > genuine happiness, all the explaining in the world won't help him
> to.
> >
>
> This is true. I see things in him that I use to struggle with or
even
> things his bio dad still struggles with and it worries me. With a
non-
> so-happy mental health history on both sides of the family (mine
and
> his bio-dads going back a couple of generations - DH is "Dad" but
not
> father), it worries me. I really am afraid of him dealing with the
> same stuff his bio dad deals with or making some of those same
> choices. Bio dad never got his 'stuff' under control, still
struggles
> with mental health issues, a very addictive personality, etc to
such
> a point that he hasn't been in Z's life for 6.5 years. So this kind
> of stuff is scary for me to see in him.
>
> Some of it does also reflect some of my residual struggles and I
have
> been fighting very hard to overcome them as well. It's a very hard
> struggle to deal with my own issues while managing an unhappy
child.
> I mean, do I make him secondary...kinda like the air masks in the
> airplane? Take care of my mask before I can take care of his? I
feel
> like that kinda leaves him high and dry when I can't be there for
him.
>
> ~ Tara
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-I'm also afraid to make his happiness dependent on "fun stuff" or
just "stuff" in general. Is he too young for me to worry about that?-=-

There's another boogeyman of traditional parenting. Here are a
couple things to consider:



http://sandradodd.com/spoiled

http://sandradodd.com/phrases

-=-These things do help a lot when I can get him out of the house. He's

really into Xbox Live at the moment so he often doesn't want to go
anywhere. But maybe I just need to be more adament about this. How do
I do so if he really doesn't want to go? -=-

If he really doesn't want to go, it would be a very bad idea to take
him.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-This is true. I see things in him that I use to struggle with or even
things his bio dad still struggles with and it worries me. With a non-
so-happy mental health history on both sides of the family (mine and
his bio-dads going back a couple of generations - DH is "Dad" but not
father), it worries me. I really am afraid of him dealing with the
same stuff his bio dad deals with or making some of those same
choices. Bio dad never got his 'stuff' under control, still struggles
with mental health issues, a very addictive personality, etc to such
a point that he hasn't been in Z's life for 6.5 years. So this kind
of stuff is scary for me to see in him. -=-

Worries, worries, afraid, scary.

That's a lot of negativity in one paragraph. You're seeing a lot of
darkness and "issue."

Let's assume your son is biologically doomed to be like his dad.
Will that work out better in the long run if he had a peaceful, happy
childhood or a cranky, pressured one?

-=-Some of it does also reflect some of my residual struggles and I have

been fighting very hard to overcome them as well. It's a very hard
struggle to deal with my own issues while managing an unhappy child.
I mean, do I make him secondary...kinda like the air masks in the
airplane? Take care of my mask before I can take care of his? I feel
like that kinda leaves him high and dry when I can't be there for
him.-=-

Struggles, fighting, hard struggle, unhappy...

Instead of thinking of this as "fighting very hard" to overcome your
own self, maybe you could consider it "taking steps to be happier,"
or "moving in more positive directions."

http://sandradodd.com/choices

Choices aren't just big things. Choose whether to lighten a mood by
smiling or putting on music. Choose whether to cut a sandwich into
four pretty pieces or leave it whole. Choose whether to use negative
words or positive. But choose. If you're not choosing, you're just
bumping along through life.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tara

> Worries, worries, afraid, scary.
>
> That's a lot of negativity in one paragraph. You're seeing a lot
of
> darkness and "issue."
>

Yes I am, because there is a lot of darkness and issue with him at
times. I know it sounds hard to imagine this with an 8 year old and
it probably sounds like I'm wallowing in it. I'm not. I'm simply
putting all the details out there so people can see the whole
picture/background.


> Let's assume your son is biologically doomed to be like his dad.
> Will that work out better in the long run if he had a peaceful,
happy
> childhood or a cranky, pressured one?
>

I think I'm coming off wrong. I'm not pressuring him to be something
he's not or overly focusing on this. I'm certainly not always cranky
(although I'm not perfect and his crankiness can certainly affect
mine). I'm just opening up the subject in hopes of shedding light on
it.

These are things I don't highlight until he's dealing with them (or
after he's had a bad day to try to discuss it in a clearer light) and
only then because he's coming to me. I'm only highlighting them now
to get some practical insight.

~ Tara

Mamachaos

Tara,

You said:


"I think the problem is he's just started wrapping his mind around some pretty big
concepts (life/death/spirituality/humanity) but he still can't quite
understand it all either. So I'm wanting to explain it to him but I
think you're right. Most of it is just too big for him. He's often
wiser than his years so I think I sometimes forget that doesn't mean
he wil always get everything."

I have been delving deeply into Anthroposophy/Waldorf education for 13 years now. And though I have strayed away-- as we needed to expand more and unschooling is our found expansion, I still very much hold dear the developmental aspects that Steiner put forth with regard to the unfolding of the human being (soul). There is a GREAT book called ENCOUNTERING THE SELF http://www.steinerbooks.org/detail.html?id=0880102799

This book really helped me understand the changes my 7-10 year olds went (and are still going) thru. It focuses on what is referred to as "The Nine Year Change", but for many children in our society, that now begins at age 7/8. And just exactly like what you are seeing, it is about the child's coming to the realization that they are not connected to you as once thought. That they are essentially alone in the world, and that they are separate indeed from all things. OVERWHELMING realization, and can manifest itself in SO many ways!!! Buy the book--you will not be sorry to have read it. Most likely it will not be available at the library. It is not hard reading, it is right on with the views and the author helps by giving thoughts on how to support the process itself in your child.

I look forward to hearing more. I too have an 8 year old going thru his change, and it is a daily thing to keep the tone more positive.

Kelley




http://sandandstardust.blogspot.com/

"Childhood is a journey, not a race."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mamachaos

Tara,

You said:


"I think the problem is he's just started wrapping his mind around some pretty big
concepts (life/death/spirituality/humanity) but he still can't quite
understand it all either. So I'm wanting to explain it to him but I
think you're right. Most of it is just too big for him. He's often
wiser than his years so I think I sometimes forget that doesn't mean
he wil always get everything."

I have been delving deeply into Anthroposophy/Waldorf education for 13 years now. And though I have strayed away-- as we needed to expand more and unschooling is our found expansion, I still very much hold dear the developmental aspects that Steiner put forth with regard to the unfolding of the human being (soul). There is a GREAT book called ENCOUNTERING THE SELF http://www.steinerbooks.org/detail.html?id=0880102799

This book really helped me understand the changes my 7-10 year olds went (and are still going) thru. It focuses on what is referred to as "The Nine Year Change", but for many children in our society, that now begins at age 7/8. And just exactly like what you are seeing, it is about the child's coming to the realization that they are not connected to you as once thought. That they are essentially alone in the world, and that they are separate indeed from all things. OVERWHELMING realization, and can manifest itself in SO many ways!!! Buy the book--you will not be sorry to have read it. Most likely it will not be available at the library. It is not hard reading, it is right on with the views and the author helps by giving thoughts on how to support the process itself in your child.

I look forward to hearing more. I too have an 8 year old going thru his change, and it is a daily thing to keep the tone more positive.

Kelley




http://sandandstardust.blogspot.com/

"Childhood is a journey, not a race."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mamachaos

Tara,

You said:


"I think the problem is he's just started wrapping his mind around some pretty big
concepts (life/death/spirituality/humanity) but he still can't quite
understand it all either. So I'm wanting to explain it to him but I
think you're right. Most of it is just too big for him. He's often
wiser than his years so I think I sometimes forget that doesn't mean
he wil always get everything."

I have been delving deeply into Anthroposophy/Waldorf education for 13 years now. And though I have strayed away-- as we needed to expand more and unschooling is our found expansion, I still very much hold dear the developmental aspects that Steiner put forth with regard to the unfolding of the human being (soul). There is a GREAT book called ENCOUNTERING THE SELF http://www.steinerbooks.org/detail.html?id=0880102799

This book really helped me understand the changes my 7-10 year olds went (and are still going) thru. It focuses on what is referred to as "The Nine Year Change", but for many children in our society, that now begins at age 7/8. And just exactly like what you are seeing, it is about the child's coming to the realization that they are not connected to you as once thought. That they are essentially alone in the world, and that they are separate indeed from all things. OVERWHELMING realization, and can manifest itself in SO many ways!!! Buy the book--you will not be sorry to have read it. Most likely it will not be available at the library. It is not hard reading, it is right on with the views and the author helps by giving thoughts on how to support the process itself in your child.

I look forward to hearing more. I too have an 8 year old going thru his change, and it is a daily thing to keep the tone more positive.

Kelley




http://sandandstardust.blogspot.com/

"Childhood is a journey, not a race."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mamachaos

Tara,

You said:


"I think the problem is he's just started wrapping his mind around some pretty big
concepts (life/death/spirituality/humanity) but he still can't quite
understand it all either. So I'm wanting to explain it to him but I
think you're right. Most of it is just too big for him. He's often
wiser than his years so I think I sometimes forget that doesn't mean
he wil always get everything."

I have been delving deeply into Anthroposophy/Waldorf education for 13 years now. And though I have strayed away-- as we needed to expand more and unschooling is our found expansion, I still very much hold dear the developmental aspects that Steiner put forth with regard to the unfolding of the human being (soul). There is a GREAT book called ENCOUNTERING THE SELF http://www.steinerbooks.org/detail.html?id=0880102799

This book really helped me understand the changes my 7-10 year olds went (and are still going) thru. It focuses on what is referred to as "The Nine Year Change", but for many children in our society, that now begins at age 7/8. And just exactly like what you are seeing, it is about the child's coming to the realization that they are not connected to you as once thought. That they are essentially alone in the world, and that they are separate indeed from all things. OVERWHELMING realization, and can manifest itself in SO many ways!!! Buy the book--you will not be sorry to have read it. Most likely it will not be available at the library. It is not hard reading, it is right on with the views and the author helps by giving thoughts on how to support the process itself in your child.

I look forward to hearing more. I too have an 8 year old going thru his change, and it is a daily thing to keep the tone more positive.

Kelley




http://sandandstardust.blogspot.com/

"Childhood is a journey, not a race."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny C

" Most likely it will not be available at the library. "

This stood out for me. I've been to libraries in different parts of
the country and have found them to be as versatile as the places they
reside in. I'm almost positive I could find this book in a library
around where I live, or borrow it from an inter library loan.

Don't mean to change the subject. A Steiner book could be helpful, I
don't know, I haven't read too much Steiner because I read enough to
know I didn't want to read more.

Mamachaos

I think that is great that your library might have this book! (Encountering the Self) Our libraries have only 4 books on homeschooling, and only 1 waldorf type book on any subject! This book is not by Steiner...and I have to agree on your sentiment about not wanting to read more. :) He is very difficult reading in most cases as well.

But this book I recommended is not like Steiner reading. It does include antroposophy perhaps(?), but what I took from it was more of an affirmation of what my gut was telling me and it helped to see the whole picture with a lot more clarity, which in turn helped me relax and BE THERE for my son during this time of huge awakenings; instead of wondering what was "wrong", it was more what was "right" with what he was feeling.

So, please don't discount the book based on not liking Steiner. It would do the book itself injustice. Just thought I would clarify that part!
Kelley

http://sandandstardust.blogspot.com/

"Childhood is a journey, not a race."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mamachaos

I think that is great that your library might have this book! (Encountering the Self) Our libraries have only 4 books on homeschooling, and only 1 waldorf type book on any subject! This book is not by Steiner...and I have to agree on your sentiment about not wanting to read more. :) He is very difficult reading in most cases as well.

But this book I recommended is not like Steiner reading. It does include antroposophy perhaps(?), but what I took from it was more of an affirmation of what my gut was telling me and it helped to see the whole picture with a lot more clarity, which in turn helped me relax and BE THERE for my son during this time of huge awakenings; instead of wondering what was "wrong", it was more what was "right" with what he was feeling.

So, please don't discount the book based on not liking Steiner. It would do the book itself injustice. Just thought I would clarify that part!
Kelley

http://sandandstardust.blogspot.com/

"Childhood is a journey, not a race."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mamachaos

I think that is great that your library might have this book! (Encountering the Self) Our libraries have only 4 books on homeschooling, and only 1 waldorf type book on any subject! This book is not by Steiner...and I have to agree on your sentiment about not wanting to read more. :) He is very difficult reading in most cases as well.

But this book I recommended is not like Steiner reading. It does include antroposophy perhaps(?), but what I took from it was more of an affirmation of what my gut was telling me and it helped to see the whole picture with a lot more clarity, which in turn helped me relax and BE THERE for my son during this time of huge awakenings; instead of wondering what was "wrong", it was more what was "right" with what he was feeling.

So, please don't discount the book based on not liking Steiner. It would do the book itself injustice. Just thought I would clarify that part!
Kelley

http://sandandstardust.blogspot.com/

"Childhood is a journey, not a race."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-So, please don't discount the book based on not liking Steiner. It
would do the book itself injustice.-=-

The book might have some great stuff, but if it's talking about
stages of mental and emotional development, any site that discusses
Piaget's stages of development would do. Here are the first four
that came up on Google. These are worth knowing about. It's one of
the things I mentioned when I spoke in Arizona. Which reminds me,
the unschooling panelists haven't send me anything and I haven't
answered any of the leftover questions either. But back to Piaget:

http://www.childdevelopmentinfo.com/development/piaget.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_development

http://chiron.valdosta.edu/whuitt/col/cogsys/piaget.html

The fourth one was a rip-off of another one, so three will be way
plenty.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

donnakeeble

> This stood out for me. I've been to libraries in different parts of
> the country and have found them to be as versatile as the places they
> reside in. I'm almost positive I could find this book in a library
> around where I live, or borrow it from an inter library loan.
>

Our local public library (Lake County Indiana) has a form patrons can
use to request that the library purchase materials that are not
currently in the collection. I stumbled across this option when
chatting with a librarian - we spend a lot of time there!! This can be
used for any type of media the library stocks: videos, books,
magazines, cds. They do not buy everything requested, but if your
library offers this, it can be a great way to let them know what you
would like to see.
Donna