melissa_hice

My children and I went to see my parents for St. Patrick's Day. My
oldest sister (who has 5 children - all grown except a 10th grader
that attended public school and is now in a private school) was
visiting.

My sister asked how my dd(8) is doing with reading. Dd is not
reading well and does not like it at all (I'm sure due to my coercion
and "schoolish" ways before I discovered unschooling). I told my
sister that my dd is not reading well yet, but that I know that when
she is ready, she will learn. We discussed this a little and my
sister wondered how in the world dd could learn to read if I didn't
teach her. I tried to explain that I read all the time to her, that
we all love to listen to books on tape, that dd reads a little on her
webkinz site as well as reads some really easy books to her little
brother. I mentioned that not all children are ready to read when
they are 5 or 6 that some children are not ready until they are even
10 or 12.

We "discussed" our views on children learning to read (she, of
course, is very traditional public school minded). I was so nervous
because I am still learning myself about unschooling. I told my
sister that I am fairly new to unschooling and learning every day. I
told her I am learning to trust my dd -- that she will learn to read
when she is ready.

My mother made a comment, "Why do you think there is so much
illiteracy in the world?" They both waited for me to respond, and to
tell you the truth, I didn't know WHAT to say! What I did say
was, "I haven't studied about world illiteracy, but I do know that in
our print-rich society and with a home where reading is valued,
children can and do learn to read."

My sister then told me that her son (10th grade) can only read on a
5th grade level. She told me all about his struggles with reading
and how it is affecting all of his school work, how he hates reading,
etc. etc. I asked her what kind of experience he had when he was in
first grade or kindergarten or whatever, and she said in
kindergarten, the teacher was sick a lot so they had lots of
different substitutes and all of the kids were in the same boat -
unable to read. She said he missed out on the basic phonics stuff so
now cannot read well.

Her son is very "strong willed" (her terms) and does not like
to "conform". I asked if maybe he was rebelling against all the
coercion, bribes, threats, etc. She just doesn't see that as a
possibility. She and her husband force him to read every day for 15
minutes (although I cannot see how they can make him actually read
the words and not just look at the page) and they withhold all
his "privileges" such as t.v., video games, friends, etc. until he
completes his reading assignments.

She was not open to any ideas but really questioned my decision to
unschool my dd. She really did not want my advice, I am thinking. I
think she and my mother had been discussing my way of homeschooling
(my sister had been there at my parents house for several days) and I
was put into a position to have to defend what I believe to be the
right way to raise my children.

My oldest sister was always the "smart" one in my family of 12 kids
and now goes around the U.S. giving seminars to doctors, nurses, and
WIC employees regarding breastfeeding and the benefits. She is on
the road much of the time, and even when she stayed home with her
children when they were younger, she was always involved in her
husband's church activities. In my opinion, she has probably never
really spent a lot of time directly interacting with her children.

During this conversation, I was feeling very unsure of myself, but
was able to turn the it around to something else not related
to "school". Then another sister showed up (St. Patrick's Day is a
big thing in my family!) and she asked if I was still homeschooling.
She talked about how she pulled her son from school when he was in
first grade because the teacher told her that her son could read a
word -- "monkey" without sounding it out. She was so upset by this
(I can't really understand why, though), that she pulled him out to
teach him phonics the "correct" way. She only homeschooled for a
couple of years and then put her kids in school. She thinks I am
doing my dd a disservice to not have a phonics program in place and
that if I were to get a really good one ("Bob Jones is the best," she
declares), dd would be reading in a short while.

Whew. I'm glad that get-together is over with. But now I am feeling
a little discouraged. How do others handle these kinds
of "discussions" with family members? I guess most people think they
are doing the right thing and that their way of looking at things is
the best way and so they try to convince others. It is just
upsetting that my sisters aren't really interested in learning about
other approaches but want me to see their way as being the right and
best way.

Melissa

Sandra Dodd

-=-"Why do you think there is so much
illiteracy in the world?" They both waited for me to respond, and to
tell you the truth, I didn't know WHAT to say!-=-

Next time, ask them if they know any illiterates who have not been to
school!! <g>



Or next time give them a reading assignment or pull up a webpage and
tell them you'll discuss it after they've read it. If they say "I
don't want to read it" say "I don't want to discuss it!"

Seriously, they don't own you. You don't have to take verbal comps
when you visit your family.

-=-I mentioned that not all children are ready to read when

they are 5 or 6 that some children are not ready until they are even
10 or 12. -=-

Or 11 (Holly) or 15 (Liam McClure)

http://sandradodd.com/reading

-=-I was put into a position to have to defend what I believe to be
the right way to raise my children. -=-

WOW. If your sister came to this list, she might be asked to defend
herself, but out in the real school-world she's doing "the right
thing" (blah)

-=-In my opinion, she has probably never really spent a lot of time
directly interacting with her children. -=-

Maybe if she had read to her child as much as you read to yours, he'd
be reading better, at the age of 15!

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny C

She thinks I am
> doing my dd a disservice to not have a phonics program in place and
> that if I were to get a really good one ("Bob Jones is the best," she
> declares), dd would be reading in a short while.
>


There is no "right" way to teach reading. All kids are different and
all kids pick up on different things. My daughter did NOT get phonics
at all! In the times when she saw others around her reading and she
wasn't, I told her she could read, but wasn't yet. We explored phonics
here and there, Sesame Street and other kids shows, really focus on it.

I've seen phonics work to the detriment of spelling. My daughter
started reading books when she was 11 or 12. She reads mostly on the
internet, still not much of a book reader, but she's fast, she can read
subtitles in movies.

She started to read when she was ready to read.

Something that helped me get over the dire warnings of relatives was
the fact that not a single one of those public schooled neices and
nephews read for pleasure. None of them have even remotely read (or
listened to) as many books as my daughter that started reading on her
own at 11ish. So all those years of forcing those kids to read, was
pretty much a waste of time in my opinion. What is the point, if
reading isn't valued for anything other than the physical act of
reading?

Sandra Dodd

-=-There is no "right" way to teach reading. All kids are different and
all kids pick up on different things. My daughter did NOT get phonics
at all! -=-

If people really want to discuss approaches to teaching reading, it
needs to be done somewhere else.

From the point of view of unschooling, any "way of teaching reading"
is going to be wrong.

-=-In the times when she saw others around her reading and she
wasn't, I told her she could read, but wasn't yet. -=-

I think (for many reasons) it's a very bad idea to tell a child she
can do something when she can't. I'll name one: She will lose
confidence in her mom's judgment and pronouncements.

"You will someday" is way more likely to be true and useful than "you
can but you aren't yet."

-=-Something that helped me get over the dire warnings of relatives
was the fact that not a single one of those public schooled neices
and nephews read for pleasure.-=-

This is a good point to make. School loves to think they taught all
those kids to read, but they *know* (schools do) that they're making
kids hate reading.

Sandra






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carnationsgalore

I've only encountered this attitude a little bit. Alot of the
reactions are fear. One guess is that if they admit unschooling is
logical then their way of schooling must be illogical and therefore
wrong. I learned to tell people, including family, that I am as
confident in my choices as they are in theirs. They do not want to
hear why my choices are good for my family but instead want me to
explain why their choices are not right for my family. Sometimes I've
had to declare a conversation over and refuse to discuss further.
I've even totally left a house and asked someone to leave my house
when I was feeling disrespected. I am the baby in my family. It took
me a very long time to learn that I do not have to gracefully submit
to those types of interactions.

Beth M.

Jenny C

>
> -=-In the times when she saw others around her reading and she
> wasn't, I told her she could read, but wasn't yet. -=-
>
> I think (for many reasons) it's a very bad idea to tell a child she
> can do something when she can't. I'll name one: She will lose
> confidence in her mom's judgment and pronouncements.
>

The way that I saw it, she could read. Even a non reading child can
read. It wasn't that she couldn't read, it was that she hadn't yet
started reading fluently. I don't know the statistics on how many
people really literally can't read because of a physical inability to
read, but I knew that wasn't the case with my daughter.

She could read. Her reading ability came with a gathering of words.
She could read various words, even at a very young age. She didn't
have enough of them gathered to string them together. There were times
in her life that she wanted me to "teach" her to read because she saw
others reading and wondered why she wasn't. This is how I know phonics
didn't make sense to her.

When I really looked at what she was doing, I realized that she indeed
could read, just not fully real whole sentences, such as you would find
in a book.

It was a process of adding to what she knew already, that kept getting
bigger and bigger. It helped her confindence to know that she could
read, and that she was getting better and better at it as the days,
months, years went by.

It wasn't a magical moment of not being able to read one day, and
suddenly being able to read the next, even if that is what it looked
like. I was many series of moments over many years, and eventually she
knew enough words to read a book. That first book that she read, she
read easily and there were only a few words she didn't know.

I do understand how telling a child they can do something when they
can't will cause them to lose confidence in a parent. However, I try
to focus on really being able to do things. I think it's like having
a "can do" attitude. So, when my kids say that they can't do things, I
tell them they can, but perhaps aren't for whatever reason that may
be.

I really saw that with reading. Telling her she could read and
pointing out words that she could read really helped her to feel better
about not fully reading books like the kids in school all around her
did.

Jenny C

> If people really want to discuss approaches to teaching reading, it
> needs to be done somewhere else.
>
> From the point of view of unschooling, any "way of teaching
reading"
> is going to be wrong.
>

You are absolutely right. Schools have a way of a one size fits all
about when and how and what kids should be doing. Reading is like that
in school. There are so many different kinds of people learning about
the world in so many different kinds of ways. Phonics has been touted
as something big and wonderful that causes all kids to learn to read.

I've seen it NOT work. I've seen different ways of kids learning how
to read naturally. Playing online RPG's was the single most
contributing factor to my oldest daughter learning how to read.

Sandra Dodd

-=-The way that I saw it, she could read. Even a non reading child can
read.-=-

Maybe a non-fluent child is still reading a little, but a non-reading
child isn't reading. If so, don't call it non-reading.

-=-She could read. Her reading ability came with a gathering of words.

She could read various words, even at a very young age. She didn't
have enough of them gathered to string them together.-=-



Then she could recognize a few words. Lots of people recognize
logos, and it's a kind of reading (reading pictures) but I wouldn't
call it "You can read; you can tell Wendy's from McDonald's." That's
more like heraldry, or knowing a truck from a car. ("Nature
intelligence," the one Howard Gardner figures he should've added.)

-=-I realized that she indeed could read, just not fully real whole
sentences, such as you would find in a book.

-=-It was a process of adding to what she knew already, that kept
getting bigger and bigger.-=-

For others reading here and wondering when to call reading reading, a
child who is starting to read a little but not whole sentences is
starting to read. "Starting to read" is like "Starting to walk" or
"Starting to talk." It's normal and it's part of a continuum, but
it's not "walking" when a child takes two steps to a couch (it goes
on the calendar as first steps, but you don't stop carrying him
around) and it's not talking the first time a kid says "ama." If he
can't tell you a bug bit him or that the house is on fire, he's not
full-on talking. But he's starting to talk.

-=-So, when my kids say that they can't do things, I tell them they
can, but perhaps aren't for whatever reason that may be. -=-

I still don't get this at all. It sounds like telling a kid he can
ride a bike, and then him wondering why he can't even get it
started. It seems more cruel and confusing. What will you say with
excitement then when he DOES ride the bike away and keep going? "I
told you so"?

I much prefer "you will" and "you did," as communications.

Sandra






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny C

> I still don't get this at all. It sounds like telling a kid he can
> ride a bike, and then him wondering why he can't even get it
> started. It seems more cruel and confusing. What will you say with
> excitement then when he DOES ride the bike away and keep going? "I
> told you so"?
>
> I much prefer "you will" and "you did," as communications.
>
> Sandra
>
>

Ok, I just realized this comes from my in the head thinking, from long
ago. Some people may know what I'm talking about, the whole, "may I
vs. can I" or "will you vs. can you".

It's a distinction that I've made in my own head for years. If I
say "Can I get a drink of water?". The answer could be "yes you can,
but you may not right now."

Chamille says that a kid can or can't ride a bike.

I have to think about that distinction. It really has helped me be a
more confindent person to know that I "can" do almost anything, but I
may not want to or I may not be able to right now or ever.

I only mention what Chamille says about riding a bike to note that she
doesn't necessarily see the world in the same way that I do.

I like to know that I "can" do something. She likes to see the proof.

Susan Reeve

Wow Melissa, you handled yourself well. For years the common thinking was
that today's kids don't like to read - and then Harry Potter came along and
blew that theory out of the water. Some children do learn reading
differently because the letters look different to them. I had my daughter
copy some letters and realized she was reversing several things. But the
coercion could certainly be behind your nephews troubles.

I also posted before about a free interactive website called
www.cafemocha.com that has tutorials for several languages - and people can
chat with other people from many other countries around the world to improve
their conversation skills. Obviously this would have to be closely
monitored.

Susan

Pamela Sorooshian

I told Rosie that that was the beginning of reading and a sign that
she was on the way to being able to read more and more.

When someone asked if she could read, I didn't say, "No," or even,
"Not yet." I said, "She's working on it," or "She's getting there," or
"Making progress."

When a babe takes its first steps, we rejoice and celebrate and we
honor that as the beginning of walking. I thought of the recognition
of signs, symbols, and a few words as similar.

-pam


On Mar 18, 2008, at 2:33 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:

> Then she could recognize a few words. Lots of people recognize
> logos, and it's a kind of reading (reading pictures) but I wouldn't
> call it "You can read; you can tell Wendy's from McDonald's." That's
> more like heraldry, or knowing a truck from a car. ("Nature
> intelligence," the one Howard Gardner figures he should've added.)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

diana jenner

On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 11:23 AM, melissa_hice <mhice@...> wrote:

> My sister asked how my dd(8) is doing with reading. Dd is not
> reading well and does not like it at all (I'm sure due to my coercion
> and "schoolish" ways before I discovered unschooling). I told my
> sister that my dd is not reading well yet, but that I know that when
> she is ready, she will learn. We discussed this a little and my
> sister wondered how in the world dd could learn to read if I didn't
> teach her. I tried to explain that I read all the time to her, that
> we all love to listen to books on tape, that dd reads a little on her
> webkinz site as well as reads some really easy books to her little
> brother. I mentioned that not all children are ready to read when
> they are 5 or 6 that some children are not ready until they are even
> 10 or 12.
>
> We "discussed" our views on children learning to read (she, of
> course, is very traditional public school minded). I was so nervous
> because I am still learning myself about unschooling. I told my
> sister that I am fairly new to unschooling and learning every day. I
> told her I am learning to trust my dd -- that she will learn to read
> when she is ready.
>





















My standard response to this question is "just fine" or "exactly where s/he
needs to be" :D for further inquiry, I'll add "s/he reads at her/his own
level and it's working out great!"

> My mother made a comment, "Why do you think there is so much
> illiteracy in the world?"
>




Because school is *really good* at fostering a hatred of reading :D Hence
the very popular bumper sticker "If you don't want to read this, blame a
teacher" :::beg:::
(not to mention folks like my own dad, who was probably a "late" reader and
was shamed into leaving school at 12 with a horrible attitude about himself
and his offerings to the world. His reading skills have VASTLY improved
since the advent of grandchildren who want to be read to :D )

My sister then told me that her son (10th grade) can only read on a
> 5th grade level. She told me all about his struggles with reading
> and how it is affecting all of his school work, how he hates reading,
> etc. etc. I asked her what kind of experience he had when he was in
> first grade or kindergarten or whatever, and she said in
> kindergarten, the teacher was sick a lot so they had lots of
> different substitutes and all of the kids were in the same boat -
> unable to read. She said he missed out on the basic phonics stuff so
> now cannot read well.
>
> Her son is very "strong willed" (her terms) and does not like
> to "conform". I asked if maybe he was rebelling against all the
> coercion, bribes, threats, etc. She just doesn't see that as a
> possibility. She and her husband force him to read every day for 15
> minutes (although I cannot see how they can make him actually read
> the words and not just look at the page) and they withhold all
> his "privileges" such as t.v., video games, friends, etc. until he
> completes his reading assignments.
>
> She was not open to any ideas but really questioned my decision to
> unschool my dd. She really did not want my advice, I am thinking. I
> think she and my mother had been discussing my way of homeschooling
> (my sister had been there at my parents house for several days) and I
> was put into a position to have to defend what I believe to be the
> right way to raise my children.
>



























It's apparent to me, school has done this kid no favors. Nor has his mother.
She needs to justify the damage she's caused to her own son by guilting you
into doing the same to your own. You may never be able to talk to her about
it, you'll have to come to a place of compassion in your heart for her and
reinforce your commitment *NOT* to do the same things you your babies.


> My oldest sister was always the "smart" one in my family of 12 kids
> and now goes around the U.S. giving seminars to doctors, nurses, and
> WIC employees regarding breastfeeding and the benefits. She is on
> the road much of the time, and even when she stayed home with her
> children when they were younger, she was always involved in her
> husband's church activities. In my opinion, she has probably never
> really spent a lot of time directly interacting with her children.
>









I lived in *the smart one* box most of my life with my family. After decades
of comparisons (why can't you do it like diana? why can't you be more like
diana?) instead of honoring individuality, I find myself in a place where I
can't share my wisdom because my siblings (& cousins) are too long in the
"anything but what diana's doing" mentality. It's sad, I hope some of the
lessons I've learned can trickle down to them through channels they're more
open to... Until then, I've gotta take care of the beings in my charge and
not worry so much about theirs. AND I'm sure to be the extra-special auntie
to those kids :D

During this conversation, I was feeling very unsure of myself, but
> was able to turn the it around to something else not related
> to "school". Then another sister showed up (St. Patrick's Day is a
> big thing in my family!) and she asked if I was still homeschooling.
> She talked about how she pulled her son from school when he was in
> first grade because the teacher told her that her son could read a
> word -- "monkey" without sounding it out. She was so upset by this
> (I can't really understand why, though), that she pulled him out to
> teach him phonics the "correct" way. She only homeschooled for a
> couple of years and then put her kids in school. She thinks I am
> doing my dd a disservice to not have a phonics program in place and
> that if I were to get a really good one ("Bob Jones is the best," she
> declares), dd would be reading in a short while.
>















Ah, if only we spoke a phonetic language, life would be so easy for all of
us (says the girl who during the phonics lesson *at school* was told "Every
time you see -ch- it says CH, like Chimney" and the next day drove past
Happy CHef and was laughed at by the entire car load -- my mom kept that
humiliating tale for weeks!! I cried every time she rejoiced at my mistake)
Bob Jones is really good at selling his books and fostering icky feelings in
parents and kids world wide -- not so good at creating reading where reading
is not ready to happen.

Whew. I'm glad that get-together is over with. But now I am feeling
> a little discouraged. How do others handle these kinds
> of "discussions" with family members?
>





"Your concern is appreciated, your approval is unnecessary"
A quick (tough not to be snarky though I strive) comment "those are *your*
choices to make, these are mine"

I guess most people think they
> are doing the right thing and that their way of looking at things is
> the best way and so they try to convince others. It is just
> upsetting that my sisters aren't really interested in learning about
> other approaches but want me to see their way as being the right and
> best way.
> .
>
I want to hold that ideal in my heart to, that most folks think they're
doing the right thing... most of the time, however, I find people want me to
join the "be $hitty to kids club" so they can justify their own membership.
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com


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Tara

> My mother made a comment, "Why do you think there is so much
> illiteracy in the world?"

Because much of the world is not Westernized and has no need for
reading perhaps? Because people have found a way to be successful
without reading? I think you were right in saying "how the heck
should I know?" (not in those exact words obviously, lol)

My husband is not a very good reader and not very fond of it. He
started an apprenticeship for carpentry right out of school and just
recently got promoted to foreman. He is successful by societys
standards (as well as his own). Occasionally he'll read some novel
about guts or gore but rarely. He is not a strong speller either. And
forget about grammar. But the man can crunch geometry in his head in
milliseconds. His weaknesses in reading and spelling have made NO
difference in his life. None whatsoever. I'd imagine your nephew is
probably really good at something else that your sister may not be
appreciating as much. Maybe your appreciaton for his talents would be
appreciated by him?


>
>In my opinion, she has probably never
> really spent a lot of time directly interacting with her children.
> ......
She only homeschooled for a
> couple of years and then put her kids in school.

I have found that many people with their own insecurities or those
who feel as if they failed at something, want others to be on their
level. They don't want to see their own failings; they want to blame
the thing they failed at instead of their own failings. "It couldn't
have been me; it must have been homeschooling/the 1st grade
teacher.my child/etc." So by you proving it can work really threatens
them and makes them recognize the real issue.



>Whew. I'm glad that get-together is over with. But now I am
feeling a little discouraged. How do others handle these kinds
> of "discussions" with family members? I guess most people think
they are doing the right thing and that their way of looking at
things is the best way and so they try to convince others. It is
just upsetting that my sisters aren't really interested in learning
about other approaches but want me to see their way as being the
right and best way.
>>>

It is upsetting but it does seem to be true. I've starting putting
people to my own mental test to see what their agenda is when
questioning what we do. If they are willing to research, read or ask
questions and truly try to understand it, then their worries are
simply out of lack of knowledge, curiousity and/or love for us. If
they don't want to research, read or listen, then I assume they just
want to feel justified in their own actions. They probably feel like
our choices are an attack on their actions and they don't want to
feel threatened, so they go into defense mode. If it's obviously
about them and not about my son, then I'm *learning* to let it go of
the argument/conversation/need to convince them.

For people who don't want to let it go, I kindly but bluntly say that
unless they wish to research and read what I have researched and
read, then the conversation is over.

Then I walk away. Unless I'm in a mood, in which case I'll counter
their remarks with snarky comments of my own. :] LOL

The best thing I did in the beginning was to prepare myself for any
question that might come along and prepare my responses in advance. I
also made sure I appeared *excited* about what I was
learning/doing/seeing, instead of quiet or unconfident. It's harder
to argue when someone is excited to share info! And if all else
failed, I'd just say "This is working for us right now. If, in the
future, we believe it to not work, we can always go back to what we
used to do. Until then, we're going to have fun exploring this
lifestyle."

Something else that helped: "The proof is in the pudding." Z went
from being a sad, pessimitic, angry little boy (after 2.5 years of
private school) to becoming a funny, blossoming kid excited for life.
I think if he had become the "obnoxious, spoiled monster" some people
seemed to be expecting, my family would be questioning us more now.

My family is very supportive of what I'm doing because they loved us
enough to try to understand. My in-laws on the other hand...well,
let's just say it's obviously about *them*.

~ Tara

P.S. For being in a very uncomfortable place, kudos on your responses
and holding your own. With time comes confidence. Keep your eye on
your daughter, not your sisters or mother. "The proof is in the
pudding."

Sandra Dodd

-=-When someone asked if she could read, I didn't say, "No," or even,
"Not yet." I said, "She's working on it," or "She's getting there," or
"Making progress."-=-



I used to say "Holly's not reading yet," when she really wasn't able
to read anything when I wasn't there. She took a couple of classes
that involved reading. I talked to the teachers about me helping her
learn her parts at home, and they were great about it. In one
performance, she knew everyone's parts, not just hers.

When she was reading better I'd say "She'd reading, but not fluently
yet."

We do a "not yet," like "She doesn't like green chile yet" (though
she's eating green chile now). Then there's not the assumption that
it's something she will never like, we figure she'll like it later.



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Hence
the very popular bumper sticker "If you don't want to read this, blame a
teacher" :::beg:::-=-



I wrote a bumper sticker! Yay.

Now if I can be a footnote in someone else's book, I'll have
fulfilled all my goals in life.



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bob Collier

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-"Why do you think there is so much
> illiteracy in the world?" They both waited for me to respond, and to
> tell you the truth, I didn't know WHAT to say!-=-
>
> Next time, ask them if they know any illiterates who have not been to
> school!! <g>
>
>


Reminds me of that spoof poster I saw somewhere once: "If you can't
read this blame a teacher." :)

Just for the record, although I probably have mentioned this before -
My son was in the remedial reading class in his second (and final)
year at his school. Primarily because he'd learned to hate books. I
couldn't believe it, being a huge book reader myself, but, yes, that
was one of the things my son had learned from two years of school. A
year after he'd quit, and without the benefit of so much as five
minutes of a single reading lesson - since he flat out refused to even
look at a book - his reading was excellent. All he did was play
videogames. For fun. Developing his reading skills from ingame
instructions and online walkthroughs was, it seems, a very useful side
effect.

Bob

Bob Collier

--- In [email protected], "Jenny C" <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Ok, I just realized this comes from my in the head thinking, from long
> ago. Some people may know what I'm talking about, the whole, "may I
> vs. can I" or "will you vs. can you".
>
>


I know exactly. :)

Perhaps the word 'capable' would be useful. "You're capable of reading".

Bob

melissa_hice

--- In [email protected], "Tara" <organicsis@...> wrote:
>
>
>I'd imagine your nephew is
> probably really good at something else that your sister may not be
> appreciating as much. Maybe your appreciaton for his talents would
be appreciated by him?

Since I don't see this nephew but once every couple of years, it is
hard for me to know what his other talents are. Maybe next time my
sister and I have a discussion, I can ask her and maybe help her see
how important it is to recognize what a child CAN do instead of
harping on what he cannot do.
>
>
>
>
>
> It is upsetting but it does seem to be true. I've starting putting
> people to my own mental test to see what their agenda is when
> questioning what we do. If they are willing to research, read or
ask
> questions and truly try to understand it, then their worries are
> simply out of lack of knowledge, curiousity and/or love for us. If
> they don't want to research, read or listen, then I assume they
just
> want to feel justified in their own actions. They probably feel
like
> our choices are an attack on their actions and they don't want to
> feel threatened, so they go into defense mode. If it's obviously
> about them and not about my son, then I'm *learning* to let it go
of
> the argument/conversation/need to convince them.


I said to my sister, "You should get the book, 'Teenage Liberation
Handbook' and read it." and she would not even consider it. She said
no, no. I don't even want to "go there".

>
> The best thing I did in the beginning was to prepare myself for any
> question that might come along and prepare my responses in advance.

That is great advice! Guess I need to brainstorm a list of questions
my family would possibly ask me and then do some reading, thinking,
asking for advice on this list, etc.

I also made sure I appeared *excited* about what I was
> learning/doing/seeing, instead of quiet or unconfident. It's harder
> to argue when someone is excited to share info! And if all else
> failed, I'd just say "This is working for us right now. If, in the
> future, we believe it to not work, we can always go back to what we
> used to do. Until then, we're going to have fun exploring this
> lifestyle."
>
> ~ Tara
>
> P.S. For being in a very uncomfortable place, kudos on your
responses
> and holding your own. With time comes confidence. Keep your eye on
> your daughter, not your sisters or mother. "The proof is in the
> pudding."

Thanks, Tara, for your response. Lots of great advice!
Melissa

>

melissa_hice

--- In [email protected], "diana jenner" <hahamommy@...>
wrote:
>

>
> My standard response to this question is "just fine" or "exactly
where s/he
> needs to be" :D for further inquiry, I'll add "s/he reads at
her/his own
> level and it's working out great!"

I like those responses!



>
> > My mother made a comment, "Why do you think there is so much
> > illiteracy in the world?"
> >
>
>
>
>
> Because school is *really good* at fostering a hatred of reading '

Boy, wish I would have said THAT (above) to my mom when she asked me
about illiteracy! That would have stopped her in her tracks!

>
I asked if maybe he was rebelling against all the
> > coercion, bribes, threats, etc. She just doesn't see that as a
> > possibility. .
> >
> > She was not open to any ideas but really questioned my decision to
> > unschool my dd. She really did not want my advice, I am thinking.
>
>
>
>
>
>

>
>
>
>
> It's apparent to me, school has done this kid no favors. Nor has
his mother.
> She needs to justify the damage she's caused to her own son by
guilting you
> into doing the same to your own. You may never be able to talk to
her about
> it, you'll have to come to a place of compassion in your heart for
her and
> reinforce your commitment *NOT* to do the same things you your
babies.
>

Thank you for that comment. That gives me "strength" to continue
this lifestyle!

Melissa
>

ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH

Well, with green chile it is surely just a matter of time ;D.

---------------------
We do a "not yet," like "She doesn't like green chile yet" (though
she's eating green chile now). Then there's not the assumption that
it's something she will never like, we figure she'll like it later.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I like to know that I "can" do something. She likes to see the
proof.-=-

There are just so many factors, though. You could be a coach and
tell a kid "You can win a gold medal at the Olympics," but nobody can
give that guarantee. There are other factors at play.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-and people can
chat with other people from many other countries around the world to
improve
their conversation skills. Obviously this would have to be closely
monitored.-=-

It's not obvious to me.

Why, if a child is practicing language (even English) online with
people from other countries (or this one) would it need to be closely
monitored?

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

~~=-and people can chat with other people from many other countries
around the world to improve their conversation skills. Obviously this
would have to be closely monitored.-=-~~

Who should monitor ME closely? Should I monitor my dh closely?
My children don't learn in a vacuum. Dh and I and other people of
varying ages are involved in their lives and helping them make sense
of this world. But I don't "closely monitor" anyone I love. I trust
them more than that.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Robyn L. Coburn

<<<<<My mother made a comment, "Why do you think there is so much
>> > illiteracy in the world?" >>>>

Is there "so much" illiteracy in the world? How much is "so much"?

What does she mean by "world" - the US? English speaking nations? Really the
whole world?

I suspect it's a myth that there is "so much" illiteracy.

Does she have the percentage figures at her fingertips? (I know I don't, but
if I had a relative going on about it, I would probably make sure I had all
the info right there.)

Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com