Kinder and Gentler
Sandra Dodd
To the person who wrote this:
-=-If your goal is to chase people away who are considering unschooling,
then I guess you're achieving your goal with your attitude.-=-
As it was addressed to me specifically, I read it, I saved it, but I
didn't put it through to the list.
Here's some reading to make you feel better. If my goal was to chase
people away, this site wouldn't exist:
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
nor this blog
http://aboutunschooling.blogspot.com
http://sandradodd.com/peace/newview
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/gettingit
http://sandradodd.com/feedback
A couple of quotes from those pages:
==================================
-=The hardest thing I'm doing these days is being at peace with my
pace of growth, which I think should be instaneous. As was said at a
recent unschooling gathering, it's not a trick of logic so much as a
being at one with. There's a long list of things that are good to be
at one with. (That's an idea right there. Jotting down those things.)
"So to come full circle, unschooling, attachment parenting and other
great ideas have led me to feel not that ds is overwhelming me, but
enriching my life in countless ways. There it is. I'm growing more
gratitude, a muscle that hasn't seen much use until ds. I am so
blessed by a child.-=-
================
Why Rush People to Get it?
"Kinder and gentler would've slowed down my learning
to the point I don't think we'd have ever gotten here."
Priss wrote that.
When people say "You're patient with your own children but pushy with
unschooling parents," it's because of the possibility that they will
run out of time.
My kids have their whole lives to memorize 7x8 if they want to.
The mother of a twelve year old has VERY little time if she wants to
help him recover from school and spend a few unschooling years with
him before he's grown and gone. She doesn't have time to ease into it
gradually. If she does, he'll be fifteen or sixteen and it just won't
happen.
If the mother of a five year old is trying to decide how much reading
instruction and math drill to continue with before she switches to
unschooling, I want to press her to decide it's "NONE," because
"some" is damaging to the child's potential to learn it joyfully and
discover it on his own. And "lots" will just hurt that much more. But
"none" can still be turned to "some" if the parent can't get
unschooling. But if she doesn't even try unschooling, she misses
forever the opportunity to see that child learn to read gradually and
naturally. It will be gone forever. Forever.
So I don't say "Gosh, I'm sure whatever you're doing is fine, and if
you want to unschool you can come to it gradually at your own rate."
People say jokingly (though it's true) "I'm sure he'll be reading by
the time he goes on a date" but that can't be said of unschooling, if
the parent is attached to thinking she needs to teach things.
Until a person stops doing the things that keep unschooling from
working, unschooling can't begin to work.
It seems simple to me. If you're trying to listen for a sound, you
have to stop talking and be still.
Some people want to see unschooling while they're still teaching and
putzing and assigning and requiring.
They have to stop that FIRST. And then they have to be still. And
then they have to look at their child with new eyes.
If they don't, it won't happen.
Sandra
-=-If your goal is to chase people away who are considering unschooling,
then I guess you're achieving your goal with your attitude.-=-
As it was addressed to me specifically, I read it, I saved it, but I
didn't put it through to the list.
Here's some reading to make you feel better. If my goal was to chase
people away, this site wouldn't exist:
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
nor this blog
http://aboutunschooling.blogspot.com
http://sandradodd.com/peace/newview
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/gettingit
http://sandradodd.com/feedback
A couple of quotes from those pages:
==================================
-=The hardest thing I'm doing these days is being at peace with my
pace of growth, which I think should be instaneous. As was said at a
recent unschooling gathering, it's not a trick of logic so much as a
being at one with. There's a long list of things that are good to be
at one with. (That's an idea right there. Jotting down those things.)
"So to come full circle, unschooling, attachment parenting and other
great ideas have led me to feel not that ds is overwhelming me, but
enriching my life in countless ways. There it is. I'm growing more
gratitude, a muscle that hasn't seen much use until ds. I am so
blessed by a child.-=-
================
Why Rush People to Get it?
"Kinder and gentler would've slowed down my learning
to the point I don't think we'd have ever gotten here."
Priss wrote that.
When people say "You're patient with your own children but pushy with
unschooling parents," it's because of the possibility that they will
run out of time.
My kids have their whole lives to memorize 7x8 if they want to.
The mother of a twelve year old has VERY little time if she wants to
help him recover from school and spend a few unschooling years with
him before he's grown and gone. She doesn't have time to ease into it
gradually. If she does, he'll be fifteen or sixteen and it just won't
happen.
If the mother of a five year old is trying to decide how much reading
instruction and math drill to continue with before she switches to
unschooling, I want to press her to decide it's "NONE," because
"some" is damaging to the child's potential to learn it joyfully and
discover it on his own. And "lots" will just hurt that much more. But
"none" can still be turned to "some" if the parent can't get
unschooling. But if she doesn't even try unschooling, she misses
forever the opportunity to see that child learn to read gradually and
naturally. It will be gone forever. Forever.
So I don't say "Gosh, I'm sure whatever you're doing is fine, and if
you want to unschool you can come to it gradually at your own rate."
People say jokingly (though it's true) "I'm sure he'll be reading by
the time he goes on a date" but that can't be said of unschooling, if
the parent is attached to thinking she needs to teach things.
Until a person stops doing the things that keep unschooling from
working, unschooling can't begin to work.
It seems simple to me. If you're trying to listen for a sound, you
have to stop talking and be still.
Some people want to see unschooling while they're still teaching and
putzing and assigning and requiring.
They have to stop that FIRST. And then they have to be still. And
then they have to look at their child with new eyes.
If they don't, it won't happen.
Sandra
Tara
I want to chime in here.
I was on the unschooling.info forum and felt and saw people getting
offended and assumed it must be what the veterans (and even myself)
were saying. We weren't fluffing it up enough. We weren't easing them
in. We were turning them off.
Sandra, I want to take it all back now and apologize for not
understanding where you and others were coming from when you tried to
explain it before. I didn't get it until I experienced it the other
way around.
I started a group on MySpace, mainly to attract other unschoolers for
me to network with but instead turned myself into some kind of advice-
giver. And then I began to see what everyone was telling me before.
I've found that many people like the "idea" of unschooling but they
only want to force the label of unschooling to fit what they have
been doing all along. They want to be reaffirmed in their current
actions. It does *not* matter how I or someone else say something.
The receiver will respond how the receiver wants to respond depending
on whether or not they are ready for and willing to accept the info
they are being given. If they only want to desperately hold on to
their old ideas, they will get offended and they will fight back
because they feel they are being attacked.
Are they being attacked? Sure. But not by anyone's advice. Usually by
their own conscience or in some cases, guilt. They are facing a
radical idea they don't truly want to face/accept and are therefore
fighting against it. The advice-givers become their punching bag,
simply because they held up a mirror they didn't really *want* to
peer into.
It's happened to me; both on the receiving end and the giving end. I
see it happen to so many others.
To paraphrase what Sandra told me, they'll either get it or they
won't. They will either keep coming back or they won't. But better to
show them the real deal first, right off the bat so they can decide
if it's what they want. Better to not reaffirm what they are doing so
they don't feel they should keep doing it or so they don't just mold
unschooling to their liking.
It's straight-forward, sometimes it almost feels brutal. But when I
walked away with the "brutal" image I was shown, that image stayed
with me. Why? Cuz it was *my* image; they just held the mirror. Can I
blame the mirror for what it reflects? Because someone held that
mirror I was able to see what I was doing wrong and correct it sooner
rather than later.
I only have one shot with my kid and I've screwed a lot up in the
past. I want someone to be honest with me where I'm not able to be
honest with myself. My kid needs me to receive that straight-forward,
no-messing-around advice you only get from a really good friend - ya
know, the kind of friend who will tell you "No that skirt looks bad
on you" (rather than he friend who doesn't want to hurt your feelings
so they say nothing)!
*My son* deserves the best mom now, not in 4 years when I look back
and *then* see how I screwed up. Better me to get offended while
online than my child to suffer my bad actions later.
So for what it's worth, Sandra, I get it now and I'm thankful that
you and Joyce and others showed me that mirror in the past.
~ Tara
I was on the unschooling.info forum and felt and saw people getting
offended and assumed it must be what the veterans (and even myself)
were saying. We weren't fluffing it up enough. We weren't easing them
in. We were turning them off.
Sandra, I want to take it all back now and apologize for not
understanding where you and others were coming from when you tried to
explain it before. I didn't get it until I experienced it the other
way around.
I started a group on MySpace, mainly to attract other unschoolers for
me to network with but instead turned myself into some kind of advice-
giver. And then I began to see what everyone was telling me before.
I've found that many people like the "idea" of unschooling but they
only want to force the label of unschooling to fit what they have
been doing all along. They want to be reaffirmed in their current
actions. It does *not* matter how I or someone else say something.
The receiver will respond how the receiver wants to respond depending
on whether or not they are ready for and willing to accept the info
they are being given. If they only want to desperately hold on to
their old ideas, they will get offended and they will fight back
because they feel they are being attacked.
Are they being attacked? Sure. But not by anyone's advice. Usually by
their own conscience or in some cases, guilt. They are facing a
radical idea they don't truly want to face/accept and are therefore
fighting against it. The advice-givers become their punching bag,
simply because they held up a mirror they didn't really *want* to
peer into.
It's happened to me; both on the receiving end and the giving end. I
see it happen to so many others.
To paraphrase what Sandra told me, they'll either get it or they
won't. They will either keep coming back or they won't. But better to
show them the real deal first, right off the bat so they can decide
if it's what they want. Better to not reaffirm what they are doing so
they don't feel they should keep doing it or so they don't just mold
unschooling to their liking.
It's straight-forward, sometimes it almost feels brutal. But when I
walked away with the "brutal" image I was shown, that image stayed
with me. Why? Cuz it was *my* image; they just held the mirror. Can I
blame the mirror for what it reflects? Because someone held that
mirror I was able to see what I was doing wrong and correct it sooner
rather than later.
I only have one shot with my kid and I've screwed a lot up in the
past. I want someone to be honest with me where I'm not able to be
honest with myself. My kid needs me to receive that straight-forward,
no-messing-around advice you only get from a really good friend - ya
know, the kind of friend who will tell you "No that skirt looks bad
on you" (rather than he friend who doesn't want to hurt your feelings
so they say nothing)!
*My son* deserves the best mom now, not in 4 years when I look back
and *then* see how I screwed up. Better me to get offended while
online than my child to suffer my bad actions later.
So for what it's worth, Sandra, I get it now and I'm thankful that
you and Joyce and others showed me that mirror in the past.
~ Tara
diana jenner
On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 8:23 AM, Tara <organicsis@...> wrote:
challenged *&* I was out-of-this-world determined to seek out that which
impassioned me so and decide what the deuce to do with it. Because of this
urgency (call it a kick in the pants or head-from-ass removal) to shift
focus to NOW to BE with my kids where they ARE, I had a teeeny tiiiiny list
of regrets when my daughter, Hannah, died when she was 9.5. (i.e. Puff the
Magic Dragon didn't really play "with a girl named Hannah Lea")
I'll never regret having spent those hours, days, maybe even weeks in
angry-turned-healed tribulation and introspection. They led to far more
days, weeks, months and YEARS living joyfully in our now... even through my
grief (we just had the 2 year anniversary of Hannah's transition and a good
friend died the next day!) I realize that the true message here is: You (all
of YOU human beings on the planet!) don't have time to f*ck around!! NOW is
all you got and it's as sacred as you make it. How do you want to spend your
last moments on this planet? How do you want your kids to spend theirs? That
is, for me especially, the heart of this lifestyle and my commitment to it.
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I only have one shot with my kid and I've screwed a lot up in theI came to Sandra's circle a long time ago, I was confronted, I was
> past. I want someone to be honest with me where I'm not able to be
> honest with myself. My kid needs me to receive that straight-forward,
> no-messing-around advice you only get from a really good friend - ya
> know, the kind of friend who will tell you "No that skirt looks bad
> on you" (rather than he friend who doesn't want to hurt your feelings
> so they say nothing)!
>
> *My son* deserves the best mom now, not in 4 years when I look back
> and *then* see how I screwed up. Better me to get offended while
> online than my child to suffer my bad actions later.
>
> So for what it's worth, Sandra, I get it now and I'm thankful that
> you and Joyce and others showed me that mirror in the past.
>
>
>
>
>
challenged *&* I was out-of-this-world determined to seek out that which
impassioned me so and decide what the deuce to do with it. Because of this
urgency (call it a kick in the pants or head-from-ass removal) to shift
focus to NOW to BE with my kids where they ARE, I had a teeeny tiiiiny list
of regrets when my daughter, Hannah, died when she was 9.5. (i.e. Puff the
Magic Dragon didn't really play "with a girl named Hannah Lea")
I'll never regret having spent those hours, days, maybe even weeks in
angry-turned-healed tribulation and introspection. They led to far more
days, weeks, months and YEARS living joyfully in our now... even through my
grief (we just had the 2 year anniversary of Hannah's transition and a good
friend died the next day!) I realize that the true message here is: You (all
of YOU human beings on the planet!) don't have time to f*ck around!! NOW is
all you got and it's as sacred as you make it. How do you want to spend your
last moments on this planet? How do you want your kids to spend theirs? That
is, for me especially, the heart of this lifestyle and my commitment to it.
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Colleen Cannon Boyd
Hi Sandra,
I am new to this group, but your posting and the quote:
" Until a person stops doing the things that keep unschooling from
working, unschooling can't begin to work. It seems simple to me. If
you're trying to listen for a sound, you have to stop talking and be
still."
really touched me and I am eager to learn more. . .
Best,
~ Colleen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I am new to this group, but your posting and the quote:
" Until a person stops doing the things that keep unschooling from
working, unschooling can't begin to work. It seems simple to me. If
you're trying to listen for a sound, you have to stop talking and be
still."
really touched me and I am eager to learn more. . .
Best,
~ Colleen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Thanks for the kind words.
-=-I've found that many people like the "idea" of unschooling but they
only want to force the label of unschooling to fit what they have
been doing all along. They want to be reaffirmed in their current
actions. -=-
That's probably why so many people treat it like a club we're trying
to keep them from joining instead of a philosophy we're trying to
help them really, truly understand.
The un-forwarded e-mail that inspired me to start this thread also said
-=-Funny, I thought cliques and "mean girls" were just for school. I
guess they're for unschooling too.-=-
Here's how to get in "my clique." Help other people understand
unschooling. REALLY understand it yourself, so well that you can
spend lots of volunteer time illuminating the minor details for
others. There. The secret is out.
Moms come to a place and see other moms writing "That's so cool!" to
each other and they want someone to say "That's so cool" to them.
Unfortunately, they want it gratis, without sharing or learning or
changing.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-I've found that many people like the "idea" of unschooling but they
only want to force the label of unschooling to fit what they have
been doing all along. They want to be reaffirmed in their current
actions. -=-
That's probably why so many people treat it like a club we're trying
to keep them from joining instead of a philosophy we're trying to
help them really, truly understand.
The un-forwarded e-mail that inspired me to start this thread also said
-=-Funny, I thought cliques and "mean girls" were just for school. I
guess they're for unschooling too.-=-
Here's how to get in "my clique." Help other people understand
unschooling. REALLY understand it yourself, so well that you can
spend lots of volunteer time illuminating the minor details for
others. There. The secret is out.
Moms come to a place and see other moms writing "That's so cool!" to
each other and they want someone to say "That's so cool" to them.
Unfortunately, they want it gratis, without sharing or learning or
changing.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]