I'm needing some help with a serious friendship issue
Kim H
We're going through a difficult time in a friendship at the moment between
my 8 year old ds and his two friends who are twin boys, 7 and a half yrs
old. The 3 boys love spending time together and have had a friendship since
they were quite young.
The problem has been that my ds seems to override these boys to a point that
they feel they can't say no to him or stop if something negative happens or
something they don't feel comfortable with arises. The boys' mum and I, also
friends, have discussed this many times over the past year in particular.
The boys have been telling their mum about situations, when playing with my
ds that they've felt uncomfortable with (rough play, negative words said to
them etc) and she's now, after an incident at our unschoolers group a couple
of weeks or so ago, severed the friendship and told the boys they can't see
my ds anymore. All three boys are unhappy about this decision. I tried to
suggest we get together and see if we could problem solve, with the boys,
the situation and see if we could come up some better ways of dealing with
things - both for them and for us. I know my ds must be not coping too well
in their friendship at times for him to behaving in some of the ways it's
been said he's behaving and I see that they need our help to move through
this phase in the friendship.
If her boys had wanted this decision to be made then I wouldn't have an
issue with the friendship ceasing but because all 3 boys don't want this I
feel extremely sad that we, as the parents, can hold this much power in
their lives. Labels of 'bully' and 'dark' have been given to my ds by this
mum, and I really understand her fears for her boys. But, knowing my ds, I
know that something, at the times these negative behaviours are coming out,
must be causing him to respond in this way and he needs my help and guidance
to move through it and find acceptable ways for dealing with situations. He
has been, in the past, a fairly volatile person but since turning 8, he's
really calmed down alot and in much more control of his anger and emotions.
I find, with my ds, that lots of discussion about how others feel and how he
was feeling really helps him move through situations and come out better
able to deal with things, especially as time's going on and he's becoming
more emotionally mature. He doesn't seem to have these same issues with any
of his other friends and has some very close freindships with both boys and
girls.
I guess then, after all that rambling, what I'm asking for is your opinions
on what you think about the severing of these boys friendship. Is that
really the only way to deal with this situation? We have tried many
different settings for get togethers but it always seems to surface when we
aren't within direct earshot. I feel like there must be a better way to deal
with it - like problem solving with them and much more close-by attention
whilst playing together but perhaps my friend is right, perhaps this isn't
going to help. She feels fear for her boys that they are being bullied and
they are unhealthily keen on my ds and the friendship.I feel that the boys
need to be able to make those decisions for themselves, with us right there
to help the situation be better and everyone to be safe, feel OK and be
heard.
I'd really appreciate your input as this has been quite a stressful and very
sad time for us.
Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
my 8 year old ds and his two friends who are twin boys, 7 and a half yrs
old. The 3 boys love spending time together and have had a friendship since
they were quite young.
The problem has been that my ds seems to override these boys to a point that
they feel they can't say no to him or stop if something negative happens or
something they don't feel comfortable with arises. The boys' mum and I, also
friends, have discussed this many times over the past year in particular.
The boys have been telling their mum about situations, when playing with my
ds that they've felt uncomfortable with (rough play, negative words said to
them etc) and she's now, after an incident at our unschoolers group a couple
of weeks or so ago, severed the friendship and told the boys they can't see
my ds anymore. All three boys are unhappy about this decision. I tried to
suggest we get together and see if we could problem solve, with the boys,
the situation and see if we could come up some better ways of dealing with
things - both for them and for us. I know my ds must be not coping too well
in their friendship at times for him to behaving in some of the ways it's
been said he's behaving and I see that they need our help to move through
this phase in the friendship.
If her boys had wanted this decision to be made then I wouldn't have an
issue with the friendship ceasing but because all 3 boys don't want this I
feel extremely sad that we, as the parents, can hold this much power in
their lives. Labels of 'bully' and 'dark' have been given to my ds by this
mum, and I really understand her fears for her boys. But, knowing my ds, I
know that something, at the times these negative behaviours are coming out,
must be causing him to respond in this way and he needs my help and guidance
to move through it and find acceptable ways for dealing with situations. He
has been, in the past, a fairly volatile person but since turning 8, he's
really calmed down alot and in much more control of his anger and emotions.
I find, with my ds, that lots of discussion about how others feel and how he
was feeling really helps him move through situations and come out better
able to deal with things, especially as time's going on and he's becoming
more emotionally mature. He doesn't seem to have these same issues with any
of his other friends and has some very close freindships with both boys and
girls.
I guess then, after all that rambling, what I'm asking for is your opinions
on what you think about the severing of these boys friendship. Is that
really the only way to deal with this situation? We have tried many
different settings for get togethers but it always seems to surface when we
aren't within direct earshot. I feel like there must be a better way to deal
with it - like problem solving with them and much more close-by attention
whilst playing together but perhaps my friend is right, perhaps this isn't
going to help. She feels fear for her boys that they are being bullied and
they are unhealthily keen on my ds and the friendship.I feel that the boys
need to be able to make those decisions for themselves, with us right there
to help the situation be better and everyone to be safe, feel OK and be
heard.
I'd really appreciate your input as this has been quite a stressful and very
sad time for us.
Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Feb 24, 2008, at 12:50 PM, Kim H wrote:
earshot.
It might be too late - the other mom must be fed up. She has twins -
they don't need your son as much as he needs them and he appears, to
her at least, to be the problem. She probably feels like she's already
given it enough of a try and doesn't want to deal with it anymore.
If so, then all you can do is learn from it.
I haven't found, personally, that it pays, in the long run, to try to
convince someone to stay friends, once they've decided to break it
off, it is really just a matter of time, because at that point any
little (normal) thing can push them over the edge.
It CAN be hard for one kid to be friends with twins, by the way,
because the twins often know each other so well and it can feel to the
third kid like the twins are always backing each other up and sort of
ganging up. My daughter was close friends with twins, and I know it
often felt to her like they spoke a sort of private language that she
didn't entirely understand - she'd get frustrated with them and get
demanding or pushy or, often, say she wouldn't play unless they did
something her way. In HER mind, I think it was reaction to feeling
always outnumbered by the two of them, but to them, she seemed
unreasonable. This was when they were about 8 to 10 years old, I'd
say. The mother of the twins saw it differently - she thought my
daughter was jealous of the closeness of the twins. I really didn't
see that, (my daughter has two sisters whom she was and is very close
to, no real reason for jealousy of that sisterly closeness) but, you
know, reality was maybe a bit of both.
If you do convince the other parent to reconsider, maybe do it under
much more controlled circumstances - you spend time together such that
you parents are right there with the kids all the time.
Consider it good feedback - learn from it even if it doesn't work out.
Help your son learn from it. Help him move on, too, and be forward
looking, not living with resentment. LOTS of friendships of the early
years will go by the wayside, don't YOU act like he should be more
devastated than he is. Show empathy, by all means, but help him move
on, too.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I guess then, after all that rambling, what I'm asking for is yourSounds like you should have long ago made it your habit to stay within
> opinions
> on what you think about the severing of these boys friendship. Is that
> really the only way to deal with this situation? We have tried many
> different settings for get togethers but it always seems to surface
> when we
> aren't within direct earshot.
earshot.
It might be too late - the other mom must be fed up. She has twins -
they don't need your son as much as he needs them and he appears, to
her at least, to be the problem. She probably feels like she's already
given it enough of a try and doesn't want to deal with it anymore.
If so, then all you can do is learn from it.
I haven't found, personally, that it pays, in the long run, to try to
convince someone to stay friends, once they've decided to break it
off, it is really just a matter of time, because at that point any
little (normal) thing can push them over the edge.
It CAN be hard for one kid to be friends with twins, by the way,
because the twins often know each other so well and it can feel to the
third kid like the twins are always backing each other up and sort of
ganging up. My daughter was close friends with twins, and I know it
often felt to her like they spoke a sort of private language that she
didn't entirely understand - she'd get frustrated with them and get
demanding or pushy or, often, say she wouldn't play unless they did
something her way. In HER mind, I think it was reaction to feeling
always outnumbered by the two of them, but to them, she seemed
unreasonable. This was when they were about 8 to 10 years old, I'd
say. The mother of the twins saw it differently - she thought my
daughter was jealous of the closeness of the twins. I really didn't
see that, (my daughter has two sisters whom she was and is very close
to, no real reason for jealousy of that sisterly closeness) but, you
know, reality was maybe a bit of both.
If you do convince the other parent to reconsider, maybe do it under
much more controlled circumstances - you spend time together such that
you parents are right there with the kids all the time.
Consider it good feedback - learn from it even if it doesn't work out.
Help your son learn from it. Help him move on, too, and be forward
looking, not living with resentment. LOTS of friendships of the early
years will go by the wayside, don't YOU act like he should be more
devastated than he is. Show empathy, by all means, but help him move
on, too.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I guess then, after all that rambling, what I'm asking for is your
opinions
on what you think about the severing of these boys friendship. Is that
really the only way to deal with this situation? -=-
For now, you have no option.
If you were frustrated enough with another family that you said "No,
no more," how would you feel about that other mom going and asking
others for help about how to do an end run around you?
It wasn't the only way to have dealt with it, but that's the move the
other mom chose to make.
-=-The boys' mum and I, also
friends, have discussed this many times over the past year in
particular.
The boys have been telling their mum about situations, when playing
with my
ds that they've felt uncomfortable with-=-
She spoke with you several times over a year's time and it didn't get
better, so it wasn't a sudden decision.
Honestly, I think her right to keep her kids safe trumps your right
to provide an opportunity for your son to practice being better.
-=-I feel that the boys need to be able to make those decisions for
themselves, with us right there to help the situation be better and
everyone to be safe, feel OK and be heard.-=-
Maybe in a month or two you could request another session. Kids get
older and it might be different before long. The mom will probably
relax and her boys might miss yours and it will be easier. I
wouldn't contact her too soon, or argue about it. She's not happy
either, I'm sure.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
opinions
on what you think about the severing of these boys friendship. Is that
really the only way to deal with this situation? -=-
For now, you have no option.
If you were frustrated enough with another family that you said "No,
no more," how would you feel about that other mom going and asking
others for help about how to do an end run around you?
It wasn't the only way to have dealt with it, but that's the move the
other mom chose to make.
-=-The boys' mum and I, also
friends, have discussed this many times over the past year in
particular.
The boys have been telling their mum about situations, when playing
with my
ds that they've felt uncomfortable with-=-
She spoke with you several times over a year's time and it didn't get
better, so it wasn't a sudden decision.
Honestly, I think her right to keep her kids safe trumps your right
to provide an opportunity for your son to practice being better.
-=-I feel that the boys need to be able to make those decisions for
themselves, with us right there to help the situation be better and
everyone to be safe, feel OK and be heard.-=-
Maybe in a month or two you could request another session. Kids get
older and it might be different before long. The mom will probably
relax and her boys might miss yours and it will be easier. I
wouldn't contact her too soon, or argue about it. She's not happy
either, I'm sure.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanna Murphy
Hi Kim--
I have found that the friendship thing can be some of the trickiest waters to navigate. To
get some perspective about it I'd say to watch your son with a variety of playmates and
look realistically at what you see. Does your son need more help? It can be really
tempting to let kids go off to play so we have mom-talking time, but different kids are
ready at different times for more independence. And some relationships require more
attention than others do. The chemistry factor can be huge between playmates and can
bring out entirely different behaviors--whether your child behaves like a leader or a
follower can sometimes change depending on the playmate.
It sounds like you need to let this go for now, but time passing can make a difference, and
at eight, you son may not miss his friends as much as you do, especially if you focus on
other playmates. And to know that there are real consequences to not working things out
equitably (if that is in fact what was happening) is not such a bad thing to learn about.
It could be that things will shift around, because they frequently do with kids (not always
with adults, however), and the mom might be willing to try again in the future. Her own
kids will have that time to develop other relationships, and perhaps find a place of
speaking up for themselves more, if that's what is needed on their part. Just seeing your
kid/s spending a lot of time in the "follower" role can look a little scary to a parent,
justified or not.
Joanna
I have found that the friendship thing can be some of the trickiest waters to navigate. To
get some perspective about it I'd say to watch your son with a variety of playmates and
look realistically at what you see. Does your son need more help? It can be really
tempting to let kids go off to play so we have mom-talking time, but different kids are
ready at different times for more independence. And some relationships require more
attention than others do. The chemistry factor can be huge between playmates and can
bring out entirely different behaviors--whether your child behaves like a leader or a
follower can sometimes change depending on the playmate.
It sounds like you need to let this go for now, but time passing can make a difference, and
at eight, you son may not miss his friends as much as you do, especially if you focus on
other playmates. And to know that there are real consequences to not working things out
equitably (if that is in fact what was happening) is not such a bad thing to learn about.
It could be that things will shift around, because they frequently do with kids (not always
with adults, however), and the mom might be willing to try again in the future. Her own
kids will have that time to develop other relationships, and perhaps find a place of
speaking up for themselves more, if that's what is needed on their part. Just seeing your
kid/s spending a lot of time in the "follower" role can look a little scary to a parent,
justified or not.
Joanna
--- In [email protected], "Kim H" <kimlewismark@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> We're going through a difficult time in a friendship at the moment between
> my 8 year old ds and his two friends who are twin boys, 7 and a half yrs
> old. The 3 boys love spending time together and have had a friendship since
> they were quite young.
>
> The problem has been that my ds seems to override these boys to a point that
> they feel they can't say no to him or stop if something negative happens or
> something they don't feel comfortable with arises. The boys' mum and I, also
> friends, have discussed this many times over the past year in particular.
> The boys have been telling their mum about situations, when playing with my
> ds that they've felt uncomfortable with (rough play, negative words said to
> them etc) and she's now, after an incident at our unschoolers group a couple
> of weeks or so ago, severed the friendship and told the boys they can't see
> my ds anymore. All three boys are unhappy about this decision. I tried to
> suggest we get together and see if we could problem solve, with the boys,
> the situation and see if we could come up some better ways of dealing with
> things - both for them and for us. I know my ds must be not coping too well
> in their friendship at times for him to behaving in some of the ways it's
> been said he's behaving and I see that they need our help to move through
> this phase in the friendship.
>
> If her boys had wanted this decision to be made then I wouldn't have an
> issue with the friendship ceasing but because all 3 boys don't want this I
> feel extremely sad that we, as the parents, can hold this much power in
> their lives. Labels of 'bully' and 'dark' have been given to my ds by this
> mum, and I really understand her fears for her boys. But, knowing my ds, I
> know that something, at the times these negative behaviours are coming out,
> must be causing him to respond in this way and he needs my help and guidance
> to move through it and find acceptable ways for dealing with situations. He
> has been, in the past, a fairly volatile person but since turning 8, he's
> really calmed down alot and in much more control of his anger and emotions.
>
> I find, with my ds, that lots of discussion about how others feel and how he
> was feeling really helps him move through situations and come out better
> able to deal with things, especially as time's going on and he's becoming
> more emotionally mature. He doesn't seem to have these same issues with any
> of his other friends and has some very close freindships with both boys and
> girls.
>
> I guess then, after all that rambling, what I'm asking for is your opinions
> on what you think about the severing of these boys friendship. Is that
> really the only way to deal with this situation? We have tried many
> different settings for get togethers but it always seems to surface when we
> aren't within direct earshot. I feel like there must be a better way to deal
> with it - like problem solving with them and much more close-by attention
> whilst playing together but perhaps my friend is right, perhaps this isn't
> going to help. She feels fear for her boys that they are being bullied and
> they are unhealthily keen on my ds and the friendship.I feel that the boys
> need to be able to make those decisions for themselves, with us right there
> to help the situation be better and everyone to be safe, feel OK and be
> heard.
>
> I'd really appreciate your input as this has been quite a stressful and very
> sad time for us.
>
> Kim
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>