my talk with a stranger
[email protected]
Thought I'd share this, as it's that time of year when we see more relatives
and others who tend to get into our business about homeschooling and parenting.
After a family funeral yesterday, I ended up sitting next a very
conservative-looking 70-something year old man who started asking about my kids, who were
sitting just across the table from us. He asked how they were doing in school
(to which I replied "great!") and then he went on to tell me how important
grades were, and how schools aren't as good as they used to be, and I figured it
wasn't worth it to get into it with the guy, so I just said, couldn't be more
pleased with them, they're doing great, and that seemed to satisfy him.
But then word gets back to him through someone else that they're
homeschooled. So then he wants to know how their progress is measured ("I talk to them")
and all that, and I ended up taking the conversation over to him. He's
retired, and I asked him about what he's interested in and how he learns. He ended
up telling me all kinds of things about himself, and expressing frustration
with certain things he's trying to learn and methods he's using, and comparing
his retirement years with his working years and his school years and how he's
using his brain less, or at least, differently, I pointed out. He had concerns
that he wasn't writing as much as he used to and it bothered him that he was
losing that skill, and I ended up acting as sort of a couselor for him by
suggesting ways he could incorporate more writing into his daily life that might
be enjoyable to him. He just lit up, he was so delighted with the opportunity
to talk about his interests and to find someone to listen to his thoughts.
And it made him forget all about his concerns about my kids. He told me,
"You're a real progressive!" to which I responded, "Thanks, I'll take that as a
compliment."
Anyway, it was cool, and got my kids off the hook too.
Patty
To support me in helping the orphanages of Baja, Mexico, visit
_Patty's Corazon de Vida Orphans of Baja Pledge Page_
(http://www.active.com/donate/cdvholiday/pattyhunt)
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and others who tend to get into our business about homeschooling and parenting.
After a family funeral yesterday, I ended up sitting next a very
conservative-looking 70-something year old man who started asking about my kids, who were
sitting just across the table from us. He asked how they were doing in school
(to which I replied "great!") and then he went on to tell me how important
grades were, and how schools aren't as good as they used to be, and I figured it
wasn't worth it to get into it with the guy, so I just said, couldn't be more
pleased with them, they're doing great, and that seemed to satisfy him.
But then word gets back to him through someone else that they're
homeschooled. So then he wants to know how their progress is measured ("I talk to them")
and all that, and I ended up taking the conversation over to him. He's
retired, and I asked him about what he's interested in and how he learns. He ended
up telling me all kinds of things about himself, and expressing frustration
with certain things he's trying to learn and methods he's using, and comparing
his retirement years with his working years and his school years and how he's
using his brain less, or at least, differently, I pointed out. He had concerns
that he wasn't writing as much as he used to and it bothered him that he was
losing that skill, and I ended up acting as sort of a couselor for him by
suggesting ways he could incorporate more writing into his daily life that might
be enjoyable to him. He just lit up, he was so delighted with the opportunity
to talk about his interests and to find someone to listen to his thoughts.
And it made him forget all about his concerns about my kids. He told me,
"You're a real progressive!" to which I responded, "Thanks, I'll take that as a
compliment."
Anyway, it was cool, and got my kids off the hook too.
Patty
To support me in helping the orphanages of Baja, Mexico, visit
_Patty's Corazon de Vida Orphans of Baja Pledge Page_
(http://www.active.com/donate/cdvholiday/pattyhunt)
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Awesome! I find it ironic in some way because i'm sitting here thinking how tonight i felt the need to explain, and justify our choices and our learning experiences to a concerned family member and she ended up talking about some of her experiences as a teacher in a college with studens from all kinds of places. Basically the real star point that was clear was that we all can continue to grow and learn throughout our lives and that it isn't as pat and dry as 12 yrs of this that and the other things in this order and there you go- off to college and collect your "$200".
I was hoping that by my pointing that out she would cease to keep pressuring me about my sons lack of reading skills at his age. I can only hope she thinks it over more but in the mean-time i wonder if her judging us is your typical human behavior done so as to take the pressure off of ones own issues.
~Laura
I was hoping that by my pointing that out she would cease to keep pressuring me about my sons lack of reading skills at his age. I can only hope she thinks it over more but in the mean-time i wonder if her judging us is your typical human behavior done so as to take the pressure off of ones own issues.
~Laura
>From: pattywithawhy@...
>Date: 2007/11/22 Thu PM 12:23:19 CST
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [AlwaysLearning] my talk with a stranger
>
>Thought I'd share this, as it's that time of year when we see more relatives
>and others who tend to get into our business about homeschooling and parenting.
>
>
>To support me in helping the orphanages of Baja, Mexico, visit
>_Patty's Corazon de Vida Orphans of Baja Pledge Page_
>(http://www.active.com/donate/cdvholiday/pattyhunt)
>
>**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
>products.
>(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
[email protected]
<<I can only hope she thinks it over more but in the mean-time i wonder if
her judging us is your typical human behavior done so as to take the pressure
off of ones own issues.>>
I think there's something to that. I wonder if it works the other way
sometimes too, like we *think* people are judging us because we're judging
ourselves, and maybe they're just interested or mildly concerned and we interpret it
differently and become defensive because we're not so sure of ourselves.
I do notice that people seem less critical of our decision to homeschool the
kids now that the kids are a bit older, 11 and 12. But the kids haven't
really changed, they still don't like to talk to strangers and distant relatives
much (and wow them with their amazing knowledge,) so it's not like they're
"proving" anything other than getting taller. So perhaps part of it is our
perception.
What's definitely changed is *me.* I'm not worried. I see the kids
learning and I love the relationship we have with them, and I just don't really care
anymore about convincing anybody else. I find that I'm arguing much less,
so maybe that's why they are too.
So now what I've been feeling is more of mild annoyance that people can't
just talk about something else. I wonder if that's a bit like what it feels
like to be famous and have people wanting your autograph all the time. It's
always about *that.* So I guess what I'm saying is that I've finally
discovered it doesn't have to be, and maybe some people are just looking for something
interesting to talk about, or like you said, dealing with their own issues.
And without the stress of feeling a *need* to convince people I know what
I'm doing, I really don't mind so much.
Patty
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
her judging us is your typical human behavior done so as to take the pressure
off of ones own issues.>>
I think there's something to that. I wonder if it works the other way
sometimes too, like we *think* people are judging us because we're judging
ourselves, and maybe they're just interested or mildly concerned and we interpret it
differently and become defensive because we're not so sure of ourselves.
I do notice that people seem less critical of our decision to homeschool the
kids now that the kids are a bit older, 11 and 12. But the kids haven't
really changed, they still don't like to talk to strangers and distant relatives
much (and wow them with their amazing knowledge,) so it's not like they're
"proving" anything other than getting taller. So perhaps part of it is our
perception.
What's definitely changed is *me.* I'm not worried. I see the kids
learning and I love the relationship we have with them, and I just don't really care
anymore about convincing anybody else. I find that I'm arguing much less,
so maybe that's why they are too.
So now what I've been feeling is more of mild annoyance that people can't
just talk about something else. I wonder if that's a bit like what it feels
like to be famous and have people wanting your autograph all the time. It's
always about *that.* So I guess what I'm saying is that I've finally
discovered it doesn't have to be, and maybe some people are just looking for something
interesting to talk about, or like you said, dealing with their own issues.
And without the stress of feeling a *need* to convince people I know what
I'm doing, I really don't mind so much.
Patty
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
I can't even remember the last time I talked about homeschooling or
unschooling with relatives or acquaintances. Used to be a topic of
conversation on the sidelines of kids' soccer games, but now that the
kids are in high school, the number one topic pretty much is school-
kids' parents nonstop complaining about the ridiculousness and
stupidity and arbitrariness and downright meanness of school rules
and regulations and officials and teachers. "I" get tired of hearing
that stuff - they all think they're stuck with it and don't ever
consider the possibility of just leaving the system. And they almost
seem to get some pleasure out of feeling like they're all being
persecuted. They are often VERY indignant on behalf of their kids -
they talk about "going in there and telling them what I think" -
stuff like that. The other big topic among sideline parents is
complaining about their own kids - their "attitude" and how they have
to keep restricting them and taking more and more things away from
them to get them to, you guessed it, take school seriously.
-pam
unschooling with relatives or acquaintances. Used to be a topic of
conversation on the sidelines of kids' soccer games, but now that the
kids are in high school, the number one topic pretty much is school-
kids' parents nonstop complaining about the ridiculousness and
stupidity and arbitrariness and downright meanness of school rules
and regulations and officials and teachers. "I" get tired of hearing
that stuff - they all think they're stuck with it and don't ever
consider the possibility of just leaving the system. And they almost
seem to get some pleasure out of feeling like they're all being
persecuted. They are often VERY indignant on behalf of their kids -
they talk about "going in there and telling them what I think" -
stuff like that. The other big topic among sideline parents is
complaining about their own kids - their "attitude" and how they have
to keep restricting them and taking more and more things away from
them to get them to, you guessed it, take school seriously.
-pam
On Nov 24, 2007, at 9:22 AM, pattywithawhy@... wrote:
>
> So now what I've been feeling is more of mild annoyance that people
> can't
> just talk about something else. I wonder if that's a bit like what
> it feels
> like to be famous and have people wanting your autograph all the
> time. It's
> always about *that.* So I guess what I'm saying is that I've finally
> discovered it doesn't have to be, and maybe some people are just
> looking for something
> interesting to talk about, or like you said, dealing with their own
> issues.
> And without the stress of feeling a *need* to convince people I
> know what
> I'm doing, I really don't mind so much.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Amanda Horein
-=-=-=-=-=-
The other big topic among sideline parents is
complaining about their own kids - their "attitude" and how they have
to keep restricting them and taking more and more things away from
them to get them to, you guessed it, take school seriously.
-pam
-=-=-=-=-=-
So what do you do when they complain. I find myself getting irritated at
these parents, and if they are strangers than I don't bother even getting
much more than irritated and talking to my dh, and possibly my kids about
it. However, if it is family, sometimes I can't resist saying something.
--
Amanda
Wife to Roger (nearly 10 years)
Mum to Marti (7) and Lilly (4)
Babysitter to Stella (3)
http://whatmykidstaughtme.blogspot.com/
Since we can't know what knowledge will be most needed in the future, it is
senseless to try to teach it in advance. Instead, we should try to turn out
people who love learning so much and learn so well that they will be able to
learn whatever needs to be learned
� John Holt
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The other big topic among sideline parents is
complaining about their own kids - their "attitude" and how they have
to keep restricting them and taking more and more things away from
them to get them to, you guessed it, take school seriously.
-pam
-=-=-=-=-=-
So what do you do when they complain. I find myself getting irritated at
these parents, and if they are strangers than I don't bother even getting
much more than irritated and talking to my dh, and possibly my kids about
it. However, if it is family, sometimes I can't resist saying something.
--
Amanda
Wife to Roger (nearly 10 years)
Mum to Marti (7) and Lilly (4)
Babysitter to Stella (3)
http://whatmykidstaughtme.blogspot.com/
Since we can't know what knowledge will be most needed in the future, it is
senseless to try to teach it in advance. Instead, we should try to turn out
people who love learning so much and learn so well that they will be able to
learn whatever needs to be learned
� John Holt
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-So what do you do when they complain. -=-
Maybe you could simply say something like "It seems the restrictions
might be part of the problem," in a neutral, conversational way and
smile and say "Pass the dip" or some such thing. They'll either
think about it later or not, but you wouldn't feel so much like you
failed to act.
Sandra
Maybe you could simply say something like "It seems the restrictions
might be part of the problem," in a neutral, conversational way and
smile and say "Pass the dip" or some such thing. They'll either
think about it later or not, but you wouldn't feel so much like you
failed to act.
Sandra
Pamela Sorooshian
I talk about how I admire "gumption" and "spirit" and "independence"
in the kids much more than "obedience." I smile and say nice things
about how glad the parent should be that their kid is thinking for
herself. I usually kind of commiserate a little about how it
sometimes seems it would be nice if our kids would jump when we say
jump, but then I act like I assume they agree with me that we don't
want our kids to be the types to be overly compliant, we want them to
be comfortable not going along with the crowd, saying no, and, since
these are all girls we're talking about, I might bring up dangers
that too-obedient girls face - things like date rape. These are all
16 to 18 year old girls - so this is something that is on the
parents' minds.
I can tell that some of the parents really do change, at least for
the moment, the way they are thinking about their child. They really
look surprised and they kind of light up in a bewildered way. It
helps that I can honestly say I've never punished, restricted,
grounded, or taken anything away, nor anything else like that, and
yet my kid is right there in front of them- well-behaved, sweet,
popular, happy, and very clearly enjoying a super good relationship
with her mom and dad. So - I have credibility and, in fact, sometimes
they even directly ask me how I'd handle a problem they're having
with their daughter.
I don't impose my opinions a lot - to be clear - it isn't me standing
there always interjecting my alternative point of view. I'm careful
about when I do it and to whom. I can kind of tell that there are
people who aren't going to be open to it - and, generally, I try not
to be near them either on the sidelines or during team parties or
when we all go out to lunch, etc.
-Pam
in the kids much more than "obedience." I smile and say nice things
about how glad the parent should be that their kid is thinking for
herself. I usually kind of commiserate a little about how it
sometimes seems it would be nice if our kids would jump when we say
jump, but then I act like I assume they agree with me that we don't
want our kids to be the types to be overly compliant, we want them to
be comfortable not going along with the crowd, saying no, and, since
these are all girls we're talking about, I might bring up dangers
that too-obedient girls face - things like date rape. These are all
16 to 18 year old girls - so this is something that is on the
parents' minds.
I can tell that some of the parents really do change, at least for
the moment, the way they are thinking about their child. They really
look surprised and they kind of light up in a bewildered way. It
helps that I can honestly say I've never punished, restricted,
grounded, or taken anything away, nor anything else like that, and
yet my kid is right there in front of them- well-behaved, sweet,
popular, happy, and very clearly enjoying a super good relationship
with her mom and dad. So - I have credibility and, in fact, sometimes
they even directly ask me how I'd handle a problem they're having
with their daughter.
I don't impose my opinions a lot - to be clear - it isn't me standing
there always interjecting my alternative point of view. I'm careful
about when I do it and to whom. I can kind of tell that there are
people who aren't going to be open to it - and, generally, I try not
to be near them either on the sidelines or during team parties or
when we all go out to lunch, etc.
-Pam
On Nov 26, 2007, at 6:43 AM, Amanda Horein wrote:
> So what do you do when they complain. I find myself getting
> irritated at
> these parents, and if they are strangers than I don't bother even
> getting
> much more than irritated and talking to my dh, and possibly my kids
> about
> it. However, if it is family, sometimes I can't resist saying
> something.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Pam S. wrote:-=-I don't impose my opinions a lot - to be clear - it
isn't me standing
there always interjecting my alternative point of view. I'm careful
about when I do it and to whom. I can kind of tell that there are
people who aren't going to be open to it - and, generally, I try not
to be near them either on the sidelines or during team parties or
when we all go out to lunch, etc.-=-
Holly wanted me to drive her to the dentist. It was a short
appointment and I stayed in the waiting room. I moved away from a
mom and son because she was ragging on him. (He was 9 or ten, I
think). So I closed the interesting book I was reading and went and
got a magazine and read that so I'd have an excuse to go sit by the
magazines, and wouldn't be simply standing up and moving.
Then a couple came in and were discussing a boy (maybe the bio child
of one of them, or a nephew?) and the conversation was painful to
hear, but there was nowhere else to sit. <g>
I was glad when Holly came out and we came home.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
isn't me standing
there always interjecting my alternative point of view. I'm careful
about when I do it and to whom. I can kind of tell that there are
people who aren't going to be open to it - and, generally, I try not
to be near them either on the sidelines or during team parties or
when we all go out to lunch, etc.-=-
Holly wanted me to drive her to the dentist. It was a short
appointment and I stayed in the waiting room. I moved away from a
mom and son because she was ragging on him. (He was 9 or ten, I
think). So I closed the interesting book I was reading and went and
got a magazine and read that so I'd have an excuse to go sit by the
magazines, and wouldn't be simply standing up and moving.
Then a couple came in and were discussing a boy (maybe the bio child
of one of them, or a nephew?) and the conversation was painful to
hear, but there was nowhere else to sit. <g>
I was glad when Holly came out and we came home.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pentaitalia
I find this so incredibly difficult....wanting to interject...wanting
to help...but not wanting to impose or be unwanted advice. My recent
experience involved watching a wee boy, maybe 15 months old, for the
last two Friday nights in the local pool. His dad seems to be a big
tough guy, but seems oh so sweet with his little one. The little one
has freedom in the pool, goes under, gets up, isn't hounded and over
protected by dad. Very sweet little boy. But then, I mistakenly
overheard him asking another dad how to deal with those terrible,
terrible twos, and the two of them decided that hand slapping and
spanking were the way to go. I felt sick, but what could I do?
Shonna
to help...but not wanting to impose or be unwanted advice. My recent
experience involved watching a wee boy, maybe 15 months old, for the
last two Friday nights in the local pool. His dad seems to be a big
tough guy, but seems oh so sweet with his little one. The little one
has freedom in the pool, goes under, gets up, isn't hounded and over
protected by dad. Very sweet little boy. But then, I mistakenly
overheard him asking another dad how to deal with those terrible,
terrible twos, and the two of them decided that hand slapping and
spanking were the way to go. I felt sick, but what could I do?
Shonna
> Then a couple came in and were discussing a boy (maybe the bio child
> of one of them, or a nephew?) and the conversation was painful to
> hear, but there was nowhere else to sit. <g>
>
>
>
> I was glad when Holly came out and we came home.
>
>
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
pentaitalia
I find this so incredibly difficult....wanting to interject...wanting
to help...but not wanting to impose or be unwanted advice. My recent
experience involved watching a wee boy, maybe 15 months old, for the
last two Friday nights in the local pool. His dad seems to be a big
tough guy, but seems oh so sweet with his little one. The little one
has freedom in the pool, goes under, gets up, isn't hounded and over
protected by dad. Very sweet little boy. But then, I mistakenly
overheard him asking another dad how to deal with those terrible,
terrible twos, and the two of them decided that hand slapping and
spanking were the way to go. I felt sick, but what could I do?
Shonna
to help...but not wanting to impose or be unwanted advice. My recent
experience involved watching a wee boy, maybe 15 months old, for the
last two Friday nights in the local pool. His dad seems to be a big
tough guy, but seems oh so sweet with his little one. The little one
has freedom in the pool, goes under, gets up, isn't hounded and over
protected by dad. Very sweet little boy. But then, I mistakenly
overheard him asking another dad how to deal with those terrible,
terrible twos, and the two of them decided that hand slapping and
spanking were the way to go. I felt sick, but what could I do?
Shonna
> Then a couple came in and were discussing a boy (maybe the bio child
> of one of them, or a nephew?) and the conversation was painful to
> hear, but there was nowhere else to sit. <g>
>
>
>
> I was glad when Holly came out and we came home.
>
>
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[email protected]
Well, you might first offer that they not use the term "terrble twos". Than, i beleive it's appropriate to suggest that they both consider what happens when their child begins hitting his little friends.
Laura
Laura
>From: pentaitalia <shonnalee@...>
>Date: 2007/11/26 Mon PM 06:57:48 CST
>>>
>>
>> Sandra
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>